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#52 Nov 14 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Default
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@ tae. I fully agree with you.
Whinning is what everyone is doing kachi. Instead of saying "I dislike this game, here is why and nothing anyone will say can change it" they can quit and not play anymore or just put the game on the back burner. When I tried Aion and WoW i never went to the forum and say "omg this game sucks, here my list as to why" I just stopped playing. Also using this site for physilogical (sp) study is a bad move. Since you are involed with the study and using your "smarts" against everyone just to say "i got the right to whine." Critism don't mean saying "this game sucks". It means "this game can be better, here is how" with REALISTIC changes that can be made. Skeptism don't mean having no faith, it means you are on the fence. No one gave ffxiv a fair shot knowing it had a rocky beta/ alpha.
But this thread was info for other forums better then this, for people who are so smart you sure do troll alot, as in thread derailment. Just answer if you know another forum or one to avoid.
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#53 Nov 15 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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@Taemak: 0Well, I hope that was cathartic, because it was definitely tl;dr.

Ultimately, I don't think you're stupid, just rude and unpleasant.

@Irish: I don't use this site for psychological study, either. If you weren't so lacking in reading comprehension, you would have caught that.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I'm just going to go back to ignoring the both of you.

Edit: due to recent revelations.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 1:23pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#54 Nov 15 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
@Taemak: 0Well, I hope that was cathartic, because it was definitely tl;dr.

Ultimately, I don't think you're stupid, just rude and unpleasant.

@Irish: I don't use this site for psychological study, either. If you weren't so lacking in reading comprehension, you would have caught that.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I'm just going to go back to ignoring the both of you.

Edit: due to recent revelations.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 1:23pm by Kachi


Oh well, you know the saying I guess Kachi, opinions are like onions.....
#55 Nov 15 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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They're delicious?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#56 Nov 15 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Default
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315 posts
Kachi wrote:
@Taemak: 0Well, I hope that was cathartic, because it was definitely tl;dr.

Ultimately, I don't think you're stupid, just rude and unpleasant.

@Irish: I don't use this site for psychological study, either. If you weren't so lacking in reading comprehension, you would have caught that.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I'm just going to go back to ignoring the both of you.

Edit: due to recent revelations.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 1:23pm by Kachi

first off NICE maturaty...
What you say isn't what ya post. Like "why i play this game?" 3-4 page essays about your over analyzation over the question rather "simply" (learn what that means) reply to what was said not derail the thread with your psych 101 babble and the derailment of this thread over where a better site is.
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#57 Nov 15 2010 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Vorkosigan wrote:
Gutspraygore wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
THe rate downs came on one thread relating to what questions you would ask the devs. I tried to answer some the questions.


I haven't read any of those posts, but if I had to guess, there's your problem.


I'd have to agree with this. In a thread titled 'Ask the Developers', people would be looking for answers from the Devs...not you.
I don't rate people down very much, I do try to rate up people who are articulate and present reasons for their thinking. I pretty much ignore people who think they know everything and want to share. I'm lurking mostly these days, waiting for the eventual patches and fixes which will probably result in more explosive threads.
Good luck to the OP tho, most forums are worse than Alla these days, one way or the other. And I lol'd at whoever suggested BG, it's not for the faint-hearted.


I take your point but some of the questions were the sort of questions that the community could answer itself if we actually got together and talked about it. ****, some of the questions I actaully knew the answer to based on my own experience in the game.

I always thought that forums like these were supposed to present an opportunity for people to talk about the game, learn from each others experiences and thus improve the quality of the gaming experience for all of us. I have tried to bring that "culture" in my posts (sometimes without succes because I have become annoyed at the constant rabid negativity). When I tried to answer questions and start some positive discussion I was rated down to Sub within seconds. Since it is only the posts on that board that have ever been made sub - and it was immediately after that that I lost my rating, I can only assume it was that thread.

I just want a place to talk about strategies in the game, a place to learn from the experience of others and share my own experiences. Unfortunately, these boards is not that place! Here you just have to ***** and whine about how rubbish the game is and how stupid people like me are for actaully trying to have some fun with it.
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#58 Nov 15 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Taemek and HallieXIV are names that I have noted for not being intelligible or constructive posts. I absolutely will not give someone a hard time or even a ratedown for liking and defending the game. The simple fact that I recognize your names indicates to me that you've been habitually making posts that are rude or plain asinine, and even though some people have been downrated unfairly lately, I don't think your lack of scholar status can be attributed solely to trolls and haters.

.[/quote]

Kachi,

Since you made the personal comment I will respond.

I would challenge you to find once instance of me posting something unintelligable or asanine. First up, I am a masters degree educated Senior Executive with an insurance company.I would like to think that I am fairly mature - and fairly intelligent. I am certainly able to write.

I have on occasion responded with unecessary aggression to the posts of others - but only when strongly provoked. I should let things go, but I am desperately trying to enjoy my gaming experience with FFXIV and encourage discussion about the game that does not include flaming or abuse.

When I ask a sensible question about a grouping strategy- why do i get 50 posts responding, "what does it mattter, why do you play this game, its rubbish - there are no strategies, just spam the "1" key".

I have been playing games for over 30 years, online games for over 10, and I cant remember a community as immature, abusive, offensive and nasty as this. Just because I am enjoying the game, I am accused of being an idiot/******.

The only posts I regret were ones where I had let a troll bait me about WoW - a game that I loved playing for many years but that i quit from because I did not agree with many of the changes Blizzard made. For some reason I was then labelled a WOW hater because I criticised the changes. Other than that - it is hard to see where you could possibly have thought that my posts were unintelligable or non constructive.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 11:38pm by HallieXIV
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#59 Nov 15 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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@Hallie-- I don't know, honestly. I don't pay much attention to these things, and it could be that is just so happened that I caught you at your worst. Whatever the case, your name did catch my attention and you made my mental blacklist. But the fact that you recognize some of your missteps even a little and have made an effort to change your habits rather than flat-out deny any culpability is a redeeming one. I'm certainly not flawless myself-- I've been needlessly uncivil in the past, and will be an unapologetic **** when I feel provoked. And that's part of the reason I'm stuck at Scholar now. Do ratings matter? No, not to me at least. But does how the community perceives you matter? That's entirely up to you.

I post here for my own gratification, and sometimes that means I post things that the community doesn't like. I'm fine with that. But overall, I want my posts to be positive contributions-- a part of an ongoing conversation, if not something genuinely insightful or useful. And to some extent ratings are a genuine reflection of that... other times not at all.

So it may be that you haven't been rated well through no real fault of your own. I can't say, and maybe you can't either. People are the worst judges of their own flaws... people rarely recognize when they're being stupid. Historically I have been very critical of myself and frequently modify any claims with, "As far as I know," "It seems that," "Probably," etc... when I speak with confidence, it's because my position has survived my own rigid scrutiny. And I'm not confident that you're just a really unpleasant poster. So maybe I'm wrong.

Even though I called two of you out specifically (and I almost mentioned Irish, but they weren't posting in this thread at the time), my advice was really intended to be general and for everyone. The fact of the matter is, you can't control what other people post here, and trying to censor others is the surest way to make them louder. If you don't like someone's posts, just don't read them. Trying to be agreeable, not trying to oust those who post things you don't like, is the only way we'll have a harmonious community, and the only way you'll become a respected part of it.

So please take that with due consideration.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#60 Nov 15 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
@Hallie-- I don't know, honestly. I don't pay much attention to these things, and it could be that is just so happened that I caught you at your worst. Whatever the case, your name did catch my attention and you made my mental blacklist. But the fact that you recognize some of your missteps even a little and have made an effort to change your habits rather than flat-out deny any culpability is a redeeming one. I'm certainly not flawless myself-- I've been needlessly uncivil in the past, and will be an unapologetic **** when I feel provoked. And that's part of the reason I'm stuck at Scholar now. Do ratings matter? No, not to me at least. But does how the community perceives you matter? That's entirely up to you.

.


Your comment is noted Kachi. My name probably caught your eye as I am one of only 10 people on these forums who actually likes playing FFXIV. It is a great shame that such a feat should make me stand out :-)

You may have previously caught me on a bad day. My karma is irrelevant, I am not some high school kid who needs to win the popularity contest. What does matter to me however is being able to talk about the game without fear of being called a ******. Unfortunately, this is not possible here anymore
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#61 Nov 15 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Like I said before, if I noted you, it wasn't for liking or defending XIV. Some people like the game, whatever, that's kumbaya with me. And I won't remember someone unless they catch my eye multiple times.

Your mistake is in thinking that karma is just a popularity contest. It is, to some extent. But it's also a vote of approval/disapproval from other human beings. Most of the people here have a sense of fairness and aren't going to let someone be grossly over or under-rated. Ask yourself, if people could rate you up/down IRL based on the things you said, would it matter to you then?

You shouldn't worry over your karma much, but if your karma is in bad shape, maybe that's a reflection on what people think of you. And maybe you should ask yourself if you really have a right to be indignant about the way you're treated if you don't even care what others think of you.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#62 Nov 15 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Like I said before, if I noted you, it wasn't for liking or defending XIV. Some people like the game, whatever, that's kumbaya with me. And I won't remember someone unless they catch my eye multiple times.

Your mistake is in thinking that karma is just a popularity contest. It is, to some extent. But it's also a vote of approval/disapproval from other human beings. Most of the people here have a sense of fairness and aren't going to let someone be grossly over or under-rated. Ask yourself, if people could rate you up/down IRL based on the things you said, would it matter to you then?

You shouldn't worry over your karma much, but if your karma is in bad shape, maybe that's a reflection on what people think of you. And maybe you should ask yourself if you really have a right to be indignant about the way you're treated if you don't even care what others think of you.


Fortunatly for me, I live in the Real world rather than on the internet so disapproval from others here does not concern me especially when most of that disapproval arose from trying to constructively answer the questions of others.

Your mistake is in thinking that most people here have a sense of fairness. Most people here are immature cry babies who throw around insults like "******" etc without any real cause. This is true of much of the internet but here it has been particuarly bad recently. The admins on this site have had to approach the community and request politely that people stop this and then even that thread turned into a flaming hate thread.

I can hand on heart say that I have only personally insulted one person on this site, and I apologised for that afterwards. Why should we insult another personally just because they dont share our opinion about a video game. Its very sad. OTherwise, I have steered well clear from being personal because I dont know people.

I am also not at all indignant - you misundestand me.
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#63 Nov 15 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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And this is another example on how most of the post always end in something different as the OP started.
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#64 Nov 15 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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RdeLeo wrote:
And this is another example on how most of the post always end in something different as the OP started.


Apologies RdeLeo, probably should have taken that conversation to PM.

Thanks for posting something back on topic to get things moving again :-)

I have found the best place to read about the game isnt actaully sites like this at all but at Linkshell sites. YOu can often find conversations about strategies etc there rather than just 100 threads about how not having an AH sucks!
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#65 Nov 15 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I disagree that the people here don't have a sense of fairness. Was it a problem for a while? Yes. But it also passed quickly. I've been visiting this site since, I dunno, 2003 I think, and the community now isn't all that different from then. People are people.

I've seen plenty of people rated up for expressing nothing but warm gushy feelings for the game, and plenty of people rated down for spewing vitriol. I've spent plenty of time here recently, and I just haven't seen the unfairness. I generally rate up people who have been rated down unfairly, based on the content of each individual post. So for me to see a post and think, "This is default and that's exactly what it deserves," multiple times, enough to remember the name attached to the post (I'm the worst person in the world with names, and even worse with user names), that makes me very skeptical of any claim of unfairness.

Ok, I misunderstand you-- wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood someone. But you do seem awful disappointed with a community that seems likewise disappointed with you. That's all I'm trying to convey. You haven't eluded scholar status because of a single or even a few threads, I'd wager. That's just not the way it works.

Quote:
And this is another example on how most of the post always end in something different as the OP started.


What we're discussing is related, albeit tangentially, to the OP's topic. This thread was asking to get derailed, too, not that derailed threads haven't been the norm on this site and others since... forever.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 9:51pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#66 Nov 15 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, going back to the OP question: I would like to ask, what do you want the forums for?

If you want a good forum for strategies, I would recommend the lodestone, between the ask the devs and what people post in their blogs, you can find a lot of information.

If you want a forum for social development, try to check if any of your linkshell in game has a forum, or go to other linkshels forums. This is easy by just shouting in any city, about ls's recruiting or just asking about ls's websites.

ZAM is a great forum, just need to wait for the right answers every post here and there ;)
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