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Guide to getting good SP (Mage/General Edition)Follow

#1 Nov 11 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Oftentimes when I go on the forums, any class forums really, I hear people crying that their class gets really sh*tty SP. Especially Conjurers, which is absolutely contrary to actual gameplay. As someone that has ranked up pretty high, as well as have other high ranked friends in my linkshell, I'll give you guys a few tips to not suck so much. I'll break it down into General tips first, and then Disciple of Magic specific tips second.

General tips:

1) If you are higher than rank 14, you want to party. Before rank 14, you can easily farm Lost Ewes in Limsa followed by Puks / Thistletail marmots in gridania for TONS of shards/crystals. After rank 14, these things stop giving any SP, and it's better to start partying.

Partying is the absolute best way to get SP in this game. Whether you are a disciple of magic or a disciple of war, the way to get SP is by partying. That's really all there is to it. This is not a solo game. The only soloing you can do is guildleves, and rank 30 guildleves get hilariously low SP comparative to the amount you need to rank up (They give a **** of a lot of money though). Don't solo, this is not a solo game in the slightest. Also, use the party bonus. If you make a party, make sure all the members are +/-2 ranks of YOU. The people two ranks lower and higher will get the shaft, but who cares about them, right?

Oh yeah. Archers steal SP from other people. They do so much damage compared to other classes it's not fair. Try to limit the amount of archers you recruit. The amount of damage they do with warped arrows is insane.

2) Be smart in your partying. Different monsters are weak / strong vs. different things. Mages and Debuffers have innate advantages vs. High defense monsters such as Crabs, whereas pure damage have the advantage vs. low defense monsters such as Opo-opos. If you are in a crab party, try using moves that have debuffs. As a lancer, I spam Heavy Thrust, Trammel, Moonrise, (and obvious Feint) on crabs. My SP for damage hits for 50, and then my debuff will hit for 120 easily. Capping out with a good party in crabs is very common. On Opo-opos, I really only use Light Thrust, Moonrise, and Feint because I am trying to maximize my damage output on those.

3) Carry multiple weapons. This is really self explanatory. Your weapon will break at a rate of probably one every two hours, so the best way to maximize SP gains is to carry multiple weapons.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4513/inventoryd.png

As you can see, I prefer to carry 4-5 weapons on me at all times. When I need to repair, I simply scout around the repair NPC or go to the respective guild, and throw down 5-10k gil for each repair. It gets things repaired quickly. If you need to, find a high rank crafter and whisper them personally in between synths. Repairsmen are very happy to repair your stuff. It gives them free money, extremely cheap SP, and actual human interaction (Something in general people like). Also, if you have something with rare/obscure repair components (Brass Squares, Beastkin Blood, Tortoiseshells, etc), have them on you and give them to the crafter. Seriously, nobody even carries that crap.

4) Use self buffs. Seriously. Ferocity, Profundity, Raging Strike, all of these give sh*t tons of SP if your attack connects. With profundity, unless you have Chainspell, use it on a spirit dart- the increased cast time is not worth it.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/534/selfbuffs.png

The 200 proc is from the profunditied spirit darts and the 50 proc after is from a regular spirit dart. Obviously it is somewhat higher than normal since I have profundity 2, but it's still very very worth it. Be careful though- self buffs draw a sh*t ton of emnity. Don't use it at a stupid time where you can wipe the group with it.

5) Softcap your VIT. Vit is the most important stat in the entire game. You're a fool if you don't softcap your vit. To do this, sit down and throw points in it until your HP doesn't go up anymore. Every time you rank up, throw another point or two into it.

-Mage Section-

1) Never nuke unless you have chainspell. It's simply not worth the casting time. If you are going to nuke anyways, nuke with the enemy's counter-element, not what you have on your bar. Fire > Ice > Wind > Fire, and Water > Earth > Lightning > Water. The element of the enemy is what it drops 6 shards of. If a star marmot is Earth element, chances are godly marmot of asskicking is also an earth element.

Use Spirit Darts and weapon skills for damage. Using nukes is just really, really not worth it.

2) You want your party to take as much damage as they possibly can. More damage = More SP gains for you. However, Dying = Less SP gains for you, and probably less friends as everyone will think you're a sh*tty healer.

Because of this, follow this dropdown chart
1) Can my team survive without stoneskin?
2) Can my team survive without shockspikes?
3) Can my team survive without rank 2 Cure spells?
4) Can my team survive without Protect?
5) Can my team survive without Shell?

The only thing better SP wise than killing Raptors, is killing Raptors without shell up. However, if your team dies without shell, then use it. Stoneskin is bad due to the long cast time, however it is sometimes a necessity (mostly on guildleves). Shock spikes robs the Disciples of War of their damage, however if the enemy is hitting way too hard, it may be needed. Rank 2 cure spells not only drain your mana quickly, but they also rob your allies AND YOU of SP. (For the record, healing spells grant SP based off of % used, NOT by amount healed. If you heal someone for 200 heal/200 max heal HP, you will get more SP than if you cured someone for 100 heal / 200 max heal HP. In this sense, by using Cure 1 twice will grant on average double the SP compared to one Cure 2). If your team can survive without protect, then don't use it. Same with shell.

For the record, usually 1, 2, and 3 are Yesses, 4 is sometimes a yes, and 5 is very situational.

3) Use Tranquility and Exaltation. See your max mana? Right when your MP bar goes to half that, use it. Running out of mana as a healer is a sign of a bad healer. Be careful though, it uses all of your stamina (which can be a problem if you need heals out), and it draws a sh*t ton of agro. If your thaumaturge and conjury skills are around the same rank, you can switch, use it, switch out. If they aren't the same rank, you're going to make all your spells fall off your bar.

4) Try to fight AoE mobs. AoE mobs give healers so much SP it's not even fair. You're looking at ranking up 50% faster than gladiators, and still faster than every other DPS class in the entire game by fighting AoE mobs. Make your party members eat the Cellar Puks backflip. Go kill skeletons at rank 20+. Go kill efts. Go kill things with AoE spells, your SP will love you so much.


That's all the tips. Just a note, Gladiators hold the title for the worst SP gains in the entire game. They have to level both shield and sword, effectively giving themselves surplus (and then they hit actual surplus, and it's even worse). Healers, contrary to your guys' beliefs, have the absolute BEST sp gain in the game.

I just love going to each class forums and seeing everyone ***** about their own SP gains.


Edited, Nov 11th 2010 5:33pm by Meowshi
#2cornyboob, Posted: Nov 11 2010 at 2:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Decent post, I agree never invite an archer or a lancer they rob you of all your SP.
#3 Nov 11 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh hey, finally someone who knows what they're talking about. Great post my good sir.
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#4 Nov 11 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
Great post and thank you very much - rate up. Only thing I would add is that from 16-20 in my experience I was nuking and getting fantastic SP from thunder VS crabs, 150-200+ for a single nuke - didnt proc everytime just like Cure does but ended up switching to it in my most recent party as it was getting me more SP than just healing and hitting :)
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#5 Nov 11 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree most of what you've said however have to disagree with not nuking. I get tonnes of SP just from nuking in parties. I don't like healing and try to avoid it if I can which other healers don't really seem to mind anyway. Pop blood rite and spiritbind and nuke away for those sweet 150, 200 SP hits. Make sure to use the counter-element of the creature though otherwise you will get resisted a lot which will obviously impact your SP gain. Overall nice post though, I always wondered why people cry playing conjurers when I get 400-500SP just from nuking in parties.
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#6 Nov 11 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Meowshi wrote:

Oh yeah. Archers steal SP from other people. They do so much damage compared to other classes it's not fair. Try to limit the amount of archers you recruit. The amount of damage they do with warped arrows is insane.


At first was gonna rate ya down cuz of your post and the above quote, but there is still a lot of useful info in the post. Just because archers can spam warped arrows and have insane dmg doesn't mean they are stealing SP. Would love to see any type of proof on your statement. I've been in parties and even when I'm going crazy there are times i get **** for SP.
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#7 Nov 11 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Meowshi wrote:
Oh yeah. Archers steal SP from other people.
...

I wasn't aware there was a THF class in the game.
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#8 Nov 11 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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If you ever go to efts and you have 3 or more archers in your party, I garuntee you that those efts won't live long enough to use their AoE = sh*t SP for healers, and you will have to wait for respawns.

I'm not saying archers are a bad thing. Just don't get more than 2.

Edited, Nov 11th 2010 6:39pm by Meowshi
#9 Nov 11 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Or if you have more than 2, just ask them to not use Multishot for the SP steal. IMHO Multishot is what cause the problem, most of the time as an ARC if I get lucky I can nearly cap 500 SP from just the opening Multishot -> Raging Strike -> Shoot -> Buckload TP to steal more SP like Quick Nock etc. <_< . IF the ARC just do shooting normally like every other classes, it aint that bad. Luckily, you don't always find more than 2 ARC in a party.
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#10 Nov 12 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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Hope this doesn't turn into an ARC bash thread. First off, ARC isn't just a spam job. It's about the opening - Raging Strike > Multi-shot x2 > Still Precision (if you have it) > Wait till Raging Strike timer drops to 10 then shoot > Get 2000TP Raging Strike/Hawk's Eye/Ferocity > Quick Noct. Repeat if the mob is still alive.

Telling an ARC not to do the above is like telling a CON not to heal. An ARC's job is to deal damage - period. The SP base gaining right now is just messed up and here's what the November update will hold: "Adjustments to how skill points are awarded". Don't go off and blame that ARC are stealing SP just yet. Haha.

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#11 Nov 12 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Decent
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gladiators have some of the fastest SP gain in the game, at least for the gld rank. And surplus is nothing to worry about really. You can level non stop every day all week and by the 5th or 6th day surplus becomes slightly noticeable but nothing horrible.
Archers prob have the best SP gain as they can easily cap nearly every mob and sometimes cap on the first hit (which is lame -_-)
Gld (ignoring shield skill) and healers are probably second fastest SP, depending on the party (specifically how many other gld and healers you have in it)
Lancer probably comes next if they spam that cheap rank 20 (i think) weapon skill that you can use when you miss
Then pugilist and mrd probably take the lowest sp gains. (unless they are tanks and then possibly sp is higher)
mind you it depends on subjob skills as well. Ex. a mrd using lancer skills will probably out sp a lancer who hasn't leveled other jobs.
#12 Nov 12 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Again, I didn't say "Do not recruit archers", just be wary- they do a lot more damage than other classes do. If you get 3+ archers in one party, enemies will start dropping before they can AoE, making them effectively single target monsters, and often in most camps making you have to sit down and wait for monsters to spawn.

And Gladiators get the worst SP. They are expected to tank, so half their stamina goes to provoke, and another 10% to block. After that, their DPS = Autoattack, and the occasional spin strike. That's equivalent to the DPS of spirit dart and radiance, except starting with 40% of your stamina.

Gladiator SP is trash. On top of that they sometimes get shield SP, nerfing it even more. This is why they are so desirable in parties. They do small DPS yet contribute full bonus + act as offtanks / as many tanks as you need. They also have extremely high defense and HP, making them a very low risk vs. high reward for you.
#13 Nov 12 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
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actually if gld spams voke + taunt in a 9man party or higher they are probably getting cap most fights.
but don't take my word for it. go read about actual gld experiences.


Quote:
"Incorrect. As a rank 25 Glad I get skillups off taunt and provoke. Yesterday while fighting Black Efts I would get between 80 and 190 skill (highest was 320) on every 1/5 taunt/voke. Sometimes I would cap out my 500 skill in the first 30 seconds of the fight. "


http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=175&mid=1287791689100863610&page=1
#14 Nov 12 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Hi.

First off I just wanted to say that I really want to thank you for all the useful tips that is needed for optimum sp gain both for myself and others. I've been theorizing alot of how sp gain works and most of the time I just think it comes randomly with no logic behind it what so ever. But with these tips I could probably get better sp, so thanks!

However, the way you were writing this was like reading someone bashing other players for not being able to play to their jobs right. And for being a very informative thread, I didn't find it to be very enjoyable to read. Maybe something to think about in your next informative thread? ;)
#15 Nov 12 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Awesome post!!!!! I am so happy to see some guides starting to get posted!
I hope this will create a trend!
Thanks for the hard work!!!
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#16 Nov 12 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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I can't even recall the last time I saw any skill gains from healing. I've seen plenty from damage dealing when I can actually hit (does PIE affect Spirit Dart accuracy?), but virtually nothing from heals. It might be a mark of a bad healer to run low on MP, but the sad fact is until we get Cure II, it's all we can do. Many enemies deal well over 200 damage in a single hit, forcing us to keep healing or watch our team die quickly.

Skill gains have been rather slow for me in general except when soloing tough targets (usually aldegoats). I've been in plenty of squads, but many players equip their own cure making my heals rather redundant in the process. It feels more like a band of soloists doing their own thing on a target rather than a group fighting as one unit.

Perhaps I've just had bad squads, but until the aggro gain is addressed (so im not KO'd for 1 round of AoE casting Sacrifice) I have to be cautious how I play.
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#17 Nov 12 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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It is sad but as a healer my best gains are from idiots doing stupid things.
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#18 Nov 12 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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R42 and I notice little to no difference in weapon durability in correlation to damage and skill gains.
No way I'm going to carry 4-5 Iron Bagnakhs when they cost 700k a piece.
I repair my weapon often, but really, what does it do?
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#19 Nov 12 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikaren wrote:
Hi.
However, the way you were writing this was like reading someone bashing other players for not being able to play to their jobs right. And for being a very informative thread, I didn't find it to be very enjoyable to read. Maybe something to think about in your next informative thread? ;)


I have a bug up my *** about bad healers that cast stoneskin in battle, and am in general a very competitive person in games ^^.

Glitterhands wrote:
I can't even recall the last time I saw any skill gains from healing. I've seen plenty from damage dealing when I can actually hit (does PIE affect Spirit Dart accuracy?), but virtually nothing from heals. It might be a mark of a bad healer to run low on MP, but the sad fact is until we get Cure II, it's all we can do. Many enemies deal well over 200 damage in a single hit, forcing us to keep healing or watch our team die quickly.


There are three comments I can make on this.

1) Use Spiritbind. Half mana cost is pretty good.
2) Get Sacrifice (THA 4), and alternate between Cure and Sacrifice.
3) Make sure you're in a party. You don't get SP for healing yourself.

Glitterhands wrote:
Perhaps I've just had bad squads, but until the aggro gain is addressed (so im not KO'd for 1 round of AoE casting Sacrifice) I have to be cautious how I play.


Agro works right now. I'll try to explain it pretty quickly.

Two players, Gladiator and Healer

Gladiator runs up to monster and starts smacking it. Healer waits ten seconds and mashes out all their stamina worth of spirit darts. Healer gets agro.

Why? Because the way the threat tables work in this game. Basically, you cannot build emnity unless more than one person is attacking the mob. As soon as there is one more person, emnity tables are reset. Now Gladiator that used up all their stamina has to compete with mage that used up none of their stamina.

If there were three people, when the third person joins in the fight, tables will NOT be reset.


Shijou wrote:
R42 and I notice little to no difference in weapon durability in correlation to damage and skill gains.
No way I'm going to carry 4-5 Iron Bagnakhs when they cost 700k a piece.
I repair my weapon often, but really, what does it do?


As weapon durability goes down, your damage goes down. As damage goes down, SP gains go down.

#20 Nov 12 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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The damage is nearly the same though, which is sort of my point. 700k more to deal 3 extra damage and get 1 more SP? No thanks.
Ironically, I get the most frequent skill ups when my weapon durability is at one. Game mechanics? Nah, just freaking random.
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#21 Nov 12 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Shijou wrote:
The damage is nearly the same though, which is sort of my point. 700k more to deal 3 extra damage and get 1 more SP? No thanks.
Ironically, I get the most frequent skill ups when my weapon durability is at one. Game mechanics? Nah, just freaking random.


I don't have extremely hard evidence or extremely accurate numbers, but I notice that when my weapon is pitch black, my damage is about halved per hit, and my SP procs are like 2/3rded.

So a spirit dart normally would do ~30-40 damage, and a broken spirit dart would do like 20-30 damage.
#22 Nov 12 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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Archers stealing SP? What's this?! I end up tanking by way of straight damage, (no voke/taunt), with my Pugilist vs. Archers and Gladiators in many of my groups. Stacking Bloodbath, Ferocity and Blindside with Concussive Blow II can do 200+ damage on SP mobs, and I've gotten a max of 300SP from a single blow.
#23 Nov 12 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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stay away from archers and buy multiple weapons? lol
just level blacksmith to 10 (can be done in very little time) and carry with you the repair items.

its a lot better than carrying a bunch of unstackable expensive weapons.
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#24 Nov 12 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
stay away from archers and buy multiple weapons? lol
just level blacksmith to 10 (can be done in very little time) and carry with you the repair items.

its a lot better than carrying a bunch of unstackable expensive weapons.


Stay away from ^Multiple^ archers, and carry multiple weapons. I am perfectly fine with partying with two archers. Once it hits three, four, five- etc., The enemy will decide to quit the game because they get spawncamped way too hard.

Blacksmith 10 can only repair R20 gear. What happens when you hit R30? R40? Will you level blacksmith to be -10 ranks of it? To put it in perspective, Rank 25 --> 26 weaver took me HOURS, as well as at least two THOUSAND earth shards. To repair my Plumed Yew Crooks, I would need to be a R33 goldsmith. The amount of gil in shards that cost is at least 50x the amount it would cost to just buy a fourth weapon. What happens when I switch to a cane after that? Should I go level up carpenter to R40?

Edited, Nov 12th 2010 4:45pm by Meowshi
#25 Nov 12 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Balancing all you stats is good for a DoM, if you want to utilize your tp move to it's maximum capability. You won't gain any MP if your spirit darts miss and hit like wet noodles. SE has stated this game will cater to soloing and lowering the amount of sp required to get to the next level, is on the horizon. To say this game isn't made for soloing is kind of jumping the gun atm.
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#26 Nov 12 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Balancing all you stats is good for a DoM, if you want to utilize your tp move to it's maximum capability. You won't gain any MP if your spirit darts miss and hit like wet noodles. SE has stated this game will cater to soloing and lowering the amount of sp required to get to the next level, is on the horizon. To say this game isn't made for soloing is kind of jumping the gun atm.


As a DoM, I have two stats. VIT, which everybody should have softcapped (Dying = Downtime = Less SP), and Mind (Out of mana = Downtime = Less SP) INT and PIETY do not help healing SP, and I haven't noticed any substantial need for an increase of spirit dart damage.
#27 Nov 12 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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At what rank and where are raptors fought?
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#28 Nov 12 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Masterlinktm wrote:
At what rank and where are raptors fought?


37 Boulder Downs, Coetheras
#29 Nov 13 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Meowshi wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Balancing all you stats is good for a DoM, if you want to utilize your tp move to it's maximum capability. You won't gain any MP if your spirit darts miss and hit like wet noodles. SE has stated this game will cater to soloing and lowering the amount of sp required to get to the next level, is on the horizon. To say this game isn't made for soloing is kind of jumping the gun atm.


As a DoM, I have two stats. VIT, which everybody should have softcapped (Dying = Downtime = Less SP), and Mind (Out of mana = Downtime = Less SP) INT and PIETY do not help healing SP, and I haven't noticed any substantial need for an increase of spirit dart damage.


Once I left my INT at 15 and would get very little SP and the moment I brought it back to ~60 I would get good SP again. I'm guessing it's somehow linked to SP proc or maybe the frequency of SP you are getting from melee hit (I was on conjurer ~ 15). Then again it maybe a placebo effect but I don't see the point of putting everything on vit and mind considering you are not likely to take 2 hits consecutively and that MP restore abilities make it very unlikely to run out of your MP in 10 minutes.

Also I agree that soloing and leves is pretty dumb (I remember when all the idiots, including game reviewers, would cry their mum because leves don't reset per 24 hours and that there is nothing to do beside leves ..) as far as pure SP-gain goes. However the guy that solo his job(s) to 20-30 makes millions out of shards and crystals (a friend of mine soloed pugilist to 33 and has now 13M selling shards, people buying shards 400g a pop).





Edited, Nov 13th 2010 9:42am by lynnminmay
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