Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This thread is locked

Tanaka: We were aware of issues (from Eurogamer)Follow

#1 Nov 12 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
440 posts
In a small interview with Eurogamer, Tanaka spoke about user expectations, and why some fixes weren't introduced earlier. Interesting read, should put some conspiracy theories at rest.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-11-why-ffxiv-failed-to-meet-expectations

Also, despite that in my opinion the shipped numbers are very low, Tanaka says that they were surprised at the amount.

Edited, Nov 13th 2010 11:54pm by Osarion Lock Thread: Degraded Thread
____________________________
Korede..Millia moshido wa...
PLD/WAR 75/37 - Asura
#2 Nov 12 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
The people **** bent on slamming SE for anything/everything won't care about that. They've already been told that things likely weren't done by release because the devs already had their hands full and they choose not to believe it. Having Tanaka say the same thing isn't likely to change their minds.
#3 Nov 12 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
**
845 posts
Aurelius wrote:
The people **** bent on slamming SE for anything/everything won't care about that. They've already been told that things likely weren't done by release because the devs already had their hands full and they choose not to believe it. Having Tanaka say the same thing isn't likely to change their minds.


Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did. If the game was to buggy they should have held back the release. Not to metion the game didnt even have a release date until roughly 3 months before it released. If they didnt want people to call their product garbage they shouldnt have charged people $50-$75 for such a shoddy product.
____________________________

#4 Nov 12 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,083 posts
One thing I'll hand to Tanaka is that the game, for me, is incredibly stable. If they were spending all that time fixing actually bugs then it was time well spent because the game almost never crashes or disconnects for me.

However, that said, you can't blame an arbitrary release date for the issues the game has since it clearly wasn't ready. If the devs had their hands full with bugs and couldn't integrate any alpha/beta feedback then it should have been delayed - as long as they were planning on charging money for it anyway.
____________________________
Wada: "There may be some areas of testing that were lacking or too rigid."
#5 Nov 12 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did.


Did someone externally force you to buy the game?

They released the game too early, but to say they didn't do anything during Beta is false. Now that most bugs have been squashed, they can work on getting their **** under control. Finally.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#6 Nov 12 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
**
845 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did.


Did someone externally force you to buy the game?

They released the game too early, but to say they didn't do anything during Beta is false. Now that most bugs have been squashed, they can work on getting their sh*t under control. Finally.


So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype? I thought FFXI was a great game I believed what SE was telling me about this game, sorry I gave them the benifit of the doubt I know they will never get that again from me. The 6 of you guys that blame the customer(aka the hater) and not SE are living in fantasy world.
____________________________

#7 Nov 12 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
46 posts
Of course it's your fault, you had a choice to buy the game or not, they didnt hold a gun to your head....just because it's not fun and exciting to you doesnt mean it's not fun and exciting for others...it doesnt even matter if the majority thinks it's not fun and exciting, they're still just opinions....

Also, forget about calling me a dillusional fan boy, i personally don't like playing the game at it's current state, but i'm not blaming anyone for me buying the game, i bought it, noone forced me to, i had a choice and that was the choice i made.

Some people, just never take responsibility for anything. Sheesh.
#8 Nov 12 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
136 posts
I love your consumer ideology that your all raised on. Despite what you think the consumer can most certainly be wrong...

So you bought a game that was incomplete, wait for updates and when and if the game improves play then. Its still gonna cost you 50 bones. I think people like you that get all in a tizzy about SE are the kids who got bent out of shape when FF8 wasn't as good as FF7 and think that every game after the SE merger was a total wash...

Face it your just like everyone else, you have nothing to do and your upset that you have to wait ANOTHER 3 months for FFXIV to be enjoyable (evident by your forum lurking). Its annoying I can sympathize with you there but I wouldn't throw SE under the bus just yet. I don't think releasing an unfinished game destroys all of FFXIV's credibility especially considering the honisty, update notices, and ask the dev's they released really show a lot of improved effort over FFXI.
#9 Nov 12 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
KenJammin wrote:
I love your consumer ideology that your all raised on. Despite what you think the consumer can most certainly be wrong...

So you bought a game that was incomplete, wait for updates and when and if the game improves play then. Its still gonna cost you 50 bones. I think people like you that get all in a tizzy about SE are the kids who got bent out of shape when FF8 wasn't as good as FF7 and think that every game after the SE merger was a total wash...

Face it your just like everyone else, you have nothing to do and your upset that you have to wait ANOTHER 3 months for FFXIV to be enjoyable (evident by your forum lurking). Its annoying I can sympathize with you there but I wouldn't throw SE under the bus just yet. I don't think releasing an unfinished game destroys all of FFXIV's credibility especially considering the honisty, update notices, and ask the dev's they released really show a lot of improved effort over FFXI.


^ +1
#10 Nov 12 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
**
845 posts
KenJammin wrote:
I love your consumer ideology that your all raised on. Despite what you think the consumer can most certainly be wrong...

So you bought a game that was incomplete, wait for updates and when and if the game improves play then. Its still gonna cost you 50 bones. I think people like you that get all in a tizzy about SE are the kids who got bent out of shape when FF8 wasn't as good as FF7 and think that every game after the SE merger was a total wash...

Face it your just like everyone else, you have nothing to do and your upset that you have to wait ANOTHER 3 months for FFXIV to be enjoyable (evident by your forum lurking). Its annoying I can sympathize with you there but I wouldn't throw SE under the bus just yet. I don't think releasing an unfinished game destroys all of FFXIV's credibility especially considering the honisty, update notices, and ask the dev's they released really show a lot of improved effort over FFXI.


Bad news for SE most people disagree with you.
____________________________

#11 Nov 12 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


You bought the game. The decision was all yours. Nobody elses. Sounds like you're wiser now, but still blaming the anyone but yourself for your own mistake.

This is how it's done in the West.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#12 Nov 12 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
it doesnt even matter if the majority thinks it's not fun and exciting, they're still just opinions....


At the end of the day it actually does matter. What do you think will happen if XIV can't even hold the number of subs that XI held on to? You won't even get XI-quality updates to the game because SE won't be able to support their staff, their servers, their bandwidth.

They skated by with this mentality "Oh we won't need mainstream appeal, we are happy with our 500k subs and that's SUCCESSFUL" - but the hardware for XI is nowhere near the power and bandwidth required for a game as sophisticated as XIV (especially with everything needing server ACK). Their operating costs have to be covered by subs, and they are clearly struggling to keep investors as evidenced by their recent actions with releasing this game at all.

So, yea you can wear your "who cares what the majority thinks" attitude like a badge of honor - but unless a major turnaround happens expect lackluster updates and server merges in the near future.
#13 Nov 12 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
845 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


You bought the game. The decision was all yours. Nobody elses. Sounds like you're wiser now, but still blaming the anyone but yourself for your own mistake.

This is how it's done in the West.


No matter what you think or what I think this release has and will further cripple SEs immage and future sales. You should keep defending them tho, it looks good on you.
____________________________

#14 Nov 12 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
No matter what you think or what I think this release has and will further cripple SEs immage and future sales. You should keep defending them tho, it looks good on you.


Defending them? Huh?

I am simply pointing out some human stupidity. It has very little to do with the game itself.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#15 Nov 12 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
182 posts
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


Ironically all the hype was player hype and anticipation. There were actually many complaints before release that SE was doing a horrible job promoting and advertising this game. People we WANTING so much from this game right out the box that they got dissapointed and hurt. Not by SE, but by them expecting so much.

--------------

Quote:
Bad news for SE most people disagree with you


I do find it amusing that the people talking negativly about the game think they are the majority. Granted alot of people are upset, there are valid reason and non-valid reasons. However if you check all the Polls.. from this and other websites, most people still have faith things will change. More than half are still willing to play with it the way it is and the majority of the others are waiting for Version updates and changes to start playing again. The people who bash SE and have lost hope are actually hurt. Doesnt mean you are the majority.. just means you speak Louder.
____________________________
#16 Nov 12 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
46 posts
Torrence wrote:
Quote:
it doesnt even matter if the majority thinks it's not fun and exciting, they're still just opinions....


At the end of the day it actually does matter. What do you think will happen if XIV can't even hold the number of subs that XI held on to? You won't even get XI-quality updates to the game because SE won't be able to support their staff, their servers, their bandwidth.

They skated by with this mentality "Oh we won't need mainstream appeal, we are happy with our 500k subs and that's SUCCESSFUL" - but the hardware for XI is nowhere near the power and bandwidth required for a game as sophisticated as XIV (especially with everything needing server ACK). Their operating costs have to be covered by subs, and they are clearly struggling to keep investors as evidenced by their recent actions with releasing this game at all.

So, yea you can wear your "who cares what the majority thinks" attitude like a badge of honor - but unless a major turnaround happens expect lackluster updates and server merges in the near future.


That's still a matter of opinion, If your opinion hold true, good for you, FFXIV will be a flop, Whoop di doo!!!...It's just a game, there will be more games to come. If it's not Square Enix, it will be another company. It's not going to be the end of the world like some people make it out to be.
#17 Nov 12 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
jtully wrote:
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


Ironically all the hype was player hype and anticipation. There were actually many complaints before release that SE was doing a horrible job promoting and advertising this game. People we WANTING so much from this game right out the box that they got dissapointed and hurt. Not by SE, but by them expecting so much.

--------------

Quote:
Bad news for SE most people disagree with you


I do find it amusing that the people talking negativly about the game think they are the majority. Granted alot of people are upset, there are valid reason and non-valid reasons. However if you check all the Polls.. from this and other websites, most people still have faith things will change. More than half are still willing to play with it the way it is and the majority of the others are waiting for Version updates and changes to start playing again. The people who bash SE and have lost hope are actually hurt. Doesnt mean you are the majority.. just means you speak Louder.


To your first point, I think its a bit of both. Players did hype themselves up a bit, which is I think some of the problem, however FFXIV failed to deliver on alot of promises also, so they're not completely free and clear. They advertised a casual solo-friendly game, and delivered a grindfest, with solo content that just doesn't really reward you appropriately.


As far as who is in the majority, thats impossible to determine until we actually see some sales figures, cancellation figures, and current subscriber figures (which there is zero chance we'll ever get, so its all speculation). Polls do seem to show that its like 60-40 in favor of still playing, but those numbers don't count the people who uninstalled and never checked forums again. I think those dissatisfied are in the majority, however I think a good number of them are going to stick around until dec.
____________________________


#18 Nov 12 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
182 posts

Quote:
To your first point, I think its a bit of both. Players did hype themselves up a bit, which is I think some of the problem, however FFXIV failed to deliver on alot of promises also, so they're not completely free and clear. They advertised a casual solo-friendly game, and delivered a grindfest, with solo content that just doesn't really reward you appropriately.


As far as who is in the majority, thats impossible to determine until we actually see some sales figures, cancellation figures, and current subscriber figures (which there is zero chance we'll ever get, so its all speculation). Polls do seem to show that its like 60-40 in favor of still playing, but those numbers don't count the people who uninstalled and never checked forums again. I think those dissatisfied are in the majority, however I think a good number of them are going to stick around until dec.


Rate up kind sir.. its nice to chat and debate with people that dont rage about the situation. Even if we dont see eye to eye on a subject
____________________________
#19 Nov 12 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
The people **** bent on slamming SE for anything/everything won't care about that. They've already been told that things likely weren't done by release because the devs already had their hands full and they choose not to believe it. Having Tanaka say the same thing isn't likely to change their minds.


Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did. If the game was to buggy they should have held back the release. Not to metion the game didnt even have a release date until roughly 3 months before it released. If they didnt want people to call their product garbage they shouldnt have charged people $50-$75 for such a shoddy product.


So what? What benefit is there to harping on the fact that the game was released early? Will it change the fact that it was released early? Will being cynical about what should have happened open a window through time and space that will allow us to all run through en masse, arriving in Japan screaming, "NO, SE! DON'T DO IT!!"

?

Tanaka's statements contradict the complaint that the game shipped the way it did because the devs didn't listen to the feedback they received during the public testing. They echo what people have already pointed out...that the devs likely had their hands full pre-release and just couldn't get to all the changes + all the bugs + everything else that had to be done to prepare for launch. We can safely assume it wasn't a developer decision to ship the game in the state it was in, and frankly, I'm glad they focused more on bugs than on changes because the only thing that could have made the launch worse would have been to ship a game where the servers all crashed multiple times daily due to bugs.

So rather than continuously harping on the development team over a management decision they likely had no part in, maybe we could just be grown-ups about it and cut the cynicism and complaining for a bit. (I know, I know...ain't gonna happen.) Live in the now, guy. All this resentment and hate over what you feel SE should have done is moot. It's done. And all you're doing is ensuring that you'll never enjoy the game. The devs can't do anything about your attitude if you're constantly going to harp on the past.
#20 Nov 12 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Regardless, there have been some utterly stupid design decisions. No one is putting all of the blame on the developers, but there were several actively bad decisions. Not "we didn't have enough time to implement," but "we decided to implement this poorly."

Quote:
They advertised a casual solo-friendly game, and delivered a grindfest, with solo content that just doesn't really reward you appropriately.


As far as who is in the majority, thats impossible to determine until we actually see some sales figures, cancellation figures, and current subscriber figures (which there is zero chance we'll ever get, so its all speculation). Polls do seem to show that its like 60-40 in favor of still playing, but those numbers don't count the people who uninstalled and never checked forums again. I think those dissatisfied are in the majority, however I think a good number of them are going to stick around until dec.


This is one of the most egregious things to me-- they advertised a casual game with limited grinding, challenging levequest-centric progression, impressive character customization and highly strategic party play. Three of four of those are the main reasons I bought the game, and they delivered none of those things.

Where you're mistaken though is looking at the current polls. The people voting in that poll are the ones still hanging around the FFXIV forum. Tons of people quit in the first month and they won't be back, not to vote, nor to play. If they're going to lose a further 40% of subscriptions after the free trial is up, this game will likely go on life support.

Personally I hope they're able to keep their promises and players give them another chance (and they continue to earn it), I'm just not optimistic.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#21 Nov 12 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
8,779 posts
Quote:
Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did. If the game was to buggy they should have held back the release. Not to metion the game didnt even have a release date until roughly 3 months before it released. If they didnt want people to call their product garbage they shouldnt have charged people $50-$75 for such a shoddy product.


well, lets not be hasty there. multi-national businesses tend to have boards of members to please, not to mention pressures from publishers.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#22 Nov 12 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
*
65 posts
jtully wrote:
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


Ironically all the hype was player hype and anticipation. There were actually many complaints before release that SE was doing a horrible job promoting and advertising this game. People we WANTING so much from this game right out the box that they got dissapointed and hurt. Not by SE, but by them expecting so much.

--------------

Quote:
Bad news for SE most people disagree with you


I do find it amusing that the people talking negativly about the game think they are the majority. Granted alot of people are upset, there are valid reason and non-valid reasons. However if you check all the Polls.. from this and other websites, most people still have faith things will change. More than half are still willing to play with it the way it is and the majority of the others are waiting for Version updates and changes to start playing again. The people who bash SE and have lost hope are actually hurt. Doesnt mean you are the majority.. just means you speak Louder.


What speaks louder than all these polls on fansites is the numbers of people playing currently. During weeks 1-3, I saw population numbers between 2500-3000. Now Your lucky to see server population break 1000 during primetime, and keep in mind this game is still F2P for the moment. Also keep in mind the fact that at least 100 are bazaars and another 200 will not be speaking your language. That leaves you with 700 active players at most during primetime to interact with. My graduating class in high school had over 800. The point is: FFXIV has already seen more then 50% of their playerbase inactive after the first 2 months.

So keep reinforcing yourselves that this game is alive and well, when in reality it is on life support. Regardless of what SE states they intend to do, the only way people can be sure of change, is when change happens. People are still waiting on "change" from our curent president... While the majority (as shown in the November elections), have given up on the democrat "hope and change" mentality. There are still avid believers in this way of thinking even though their leadership has not produced results in changing anything....Sound familiar?

If the majority of players liked and enjoyed this game, do you honestly think SE gives another free 30 days out of the kindness of their hearts?? Do you really think investors pull the plug?? Do you really believe that SE officially states that the game is unsatisfactory?? Do you really think that they would be putting out huge patches that will in essence completely overhaul the majority of the game???

Wake up and smell the Moko grass.....

#23 Nov 12 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Bad news for SE most people disagree with you.


No the internet and it's "lets jump on the it's cool to hate product X" bandwagon.

Definately not saying SE doesn't have some major flaws lately, but the hate is being over hyped. Almost on the same level that people defend their iProducts... but like in bizarro world or some crap.

To the OP, unfortunately this interview is another poorly translated/edited/or worded affair... and it's kinda getting old. There has to be a journalist out there somewhere that can get answers in a clear and straightforawrd manner.... Then again, maybe not.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#24 Nov 12 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,606 posts
KenJammin wrote:
I love your consumer ideology that your all raised on. Despite what you think the consumer can most certainly be wrong...

I do agree with you that the consumer can be wrong but SE would be nothing without the consumers buying it's games. I used to see in FFXI a lot where people would go above and beyond to defend SE like we were privileged and should be honored they were willing to take our money or something. I'm all for defending the fact that companies are run by people and people make mistakes so we have to give them some wiggle room but they exist to please us (the consumers.) At the end of the day, that's what it's about. Call it consumer ideology if you'd like but make no mistake that our (the consumers) wallet is the only thing that keeps SE going because if we (the consumers) stop buying their game you can be sure that most stock holders would jump ship as soon as they saw the stock tanking.
#25 Nov 12 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,675 posts
rikkuotaku wrote:
One thing I'll hand to Tanaka is that the game, for me, is incredibly stable. If they were spending all that time fixing actually bugs then it was time well spent because the game almost never crashes or disconnects for me.

However, that said, you can't blame an arbitrary release date for the issues the game has since it clearly wasn't ready. If the devs had their hands full with bugs and couldn't integrate any alpha/beta feedback then it should have been delayed - as long as they were planning on charging money for it anyway.



Sums it up well.

So I guess if SE focused on content/fixes/debugging, SE would have launched a buggy, incomplete game, whereas in reality they just launched an incomplete one. So...I guess...kudos?

And that's where we are. It makes sense what Tanaka says, but in the end it is very hard for me to excuse this. I can't imagine how the devs feel; You work hard for 5 years and have to release a game that you know has problems, ugh.
#26 Nov 12 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
*
55 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


You bought the game. The decision was all yours. Nobody elses. Sounds like you're wiser now, but still blaming the anyone but yourself for your own mistake.

This is how it's done in the West.


How it's done in the West is if we receive a **** product we call it how we see it and we demand something to be done about it. It's not our fault we received a game that was essentially broken at the core so anyone complaining about that fact is justified. If someone is ******** about having to pay the subscription fee then yes your logic stands because they have a choice there.

The choice was made to purchase a working gaming title and not a work in progress title.
#27 Nov 12 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Mistress of Gardening
Avatar
*****
14,661 posts
Please COOL IT DOWN in this thread.

No one is "stupid" for buying a game that was touted as a complete product. If I buy a cheeseburger at McDonald's and go home and find out there's no cheese in it, it's not my fault for buying what I was told would have cheese in it.
#28 Nov 12 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
*
164 posts
I really wish someone who really likes this game, and has played it for a while, would write a review.

#29 Nov 12 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Ponderosa wrote:
I really wish someone who really likes this game, and has played it for a while, would write a review.



I would if I wasn't more interested in playing it in my spare time... lol
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#30 Nov 12 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I'm all for defending the fact that companies are run by people and people make mistakes so we have to give them some wiggle room but they exist to please us make a profit, by pleasing, or at least not ******* us off (the consumers.)


FTFY. If you or anyone else is under the impression that SE, or ANY company, exists to make you happy please stop. If they didn't make any money by making games they wouldn't be doing it. It's the not ******* customers off part where they are failing.
#31 Nov 12 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
**
923 posts
Pikko wrote:
Please COOL IT DOWN in this thread.

No one is "stupid" for buying a game that was touted as a complete product. If I buy a cheeseburger at McDonald's and go home and find out there's no cheese in it, it's not my fault for buying what I was told would have cheese in it.


Glad someone said it, I was getting a bit upset
#32 Nov 12 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
**
696 posts
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Noone externally forced SE to release the game when they did.


Did someone externally force you to buy the game?

They released the game too early, but to say they didn't do anything during Beta is false. Now that most bugs have been squashed, they can work on getting their sh*t under control. Finally.


So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype? I thought FFXI was a great game I believed what SE was telling me about this game, sorry I gave them the benifit of the doubt I know they will never get that again from me. The 6 of you guys that blame the customer(aka the hater) and not SE are living in fantasy world.



I got this awesome amazing **** you might want to buy. It's shiny when it's wet. No really tho. They let you play it for free for a month almost. Get real.
#33 Nov 12 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
People are still waiting on "change" from our curent president... While the majority (as shown in the November elections), have given up on the democrat "hope and change" mentality. There are still avid believers in this way of thinking even though their leadership has not produced results in changing anything....Sound familiar?


OT, but this is a bad example. The democrats haven't failed to produce results because they're lazy or incompetent... they've failed because the republicans won't let them do anything. You can hardly fault them for that. If anything, it's the voters' fault for not electing a Congress that supports the President, and being so polarized that they allow republicans to get away with blocking everything.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#34 Nov 12 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
*
182 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So its my fault they told us the game was amazing and would be fun and exciting even though for the most part it was all made up hype?


You bought the game. The decision was all yours. Nobody elses. Sounds like you're wiser now, but still blaming the anyone but yourself for your own mistake.

This is how it's done in the West.


*put the popcorn down* and you are on what side? Haters or Fanboys? Or just stopping by to offend random people as i just right now do? *getting popcorn again*
#35 Nov 12 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
People are still waiting on "change" from our curent president... While the majority (as shown in the November elections), have given up on the democrat "hope and change" mentality. There are still avid believers in this way of thinking even though their leadership has not produced results in changing anything....Sound familiar?


OT, but this is a bad example. The democrats haven't failed to produce results because they're lazy or incompetent... they've failed because the republicans won't let them do anything. You can hardly fault them for that. If anything, it's the voters' fault for not electing a Congress that supports the President, and being so polarized that they allow republicans to get away with blocking everything.


Correct me if i'm wrong, but how do the republicans block anything in congress when the democrats have majority control? What was even brought to the table that was blocked? I'm neither Republican or Democrat, If anything I guess I would be considered Independent. I'm just wondering what it is your saying exactly.
#36 Nov 12 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Republicans can and will filibuster anything that doesn't get at least 60 votes, which the democrats never had during this presidency, particularly because some democratic congressmen aren't actually progressive democrats. Some are fiscal conservatives and some are social conservatives, and they'll vote republican on certain issues. For example, some democrats wouldn't vote on the health care bill because republicans made it seem as if the bill gave federal money for abortions. Well, no socially conservative democrat can vote for that, even if they agree with every other thing in the bill.

Ultimately having a simple majority means nothing, particularly because republicans are determined to make the democrats fail at their agenda. They have incredible solidarity and are more inclined to place politics before passing beneficial legislation. Conversely, democrats tend to compromise with the republicans when they're in power. Even though it makes the republicans look like they're getting things done, the democrats usually let them because it's better than doing nothing.

Depends on the particular legislation to an extent, of course. Sometimes republicans are reasonable and compromising, and sometimes democrats aren't.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#37 Nov 12 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
Ponderosa wrote:
I really wish someone who really likes this game, and has played it for a while, would write a review.



I might just do that, given the number of screenshots I've taken...

Just how did this thread go from a interview to the state of politics in the USA?
____________________________
FFXIV

Estur Leone - Gysahl

#38 Nov 12 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Poor analogy of how SE won't keep promises just like Obama didn't keep promises.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#39 Nov 12 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
***
3,177 posts
Too bad we couldn't vote whoever made the poor business decision to release FFXIV in this bad of a shape out of power like we can do to our elected officials.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#40 Nov 12 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
**
660 posts
You know whats sad is I see this same thing happen at my job, where a higher up boss communicates an arbitrary release date, then tells the dev team the product they haven't coded yet ships on that date. When we can't make the rediculous deadline we have 2 options, both bad.. we tell the client its not ready and we need more time, making us look incompetent, or we release a terrible product which makes us look like retards.

The difference here is that my company employs about 300 people (most of whom have nothing to do with development) and SE employs thousands and is an international company focused on games. They need to start acting like a dev house in the 21st century if they want to stay competitive.

That said, Im looking forward to the updates.
____________________________


#41 Nov 12 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
*
137 posts
Watching people defend what SE did to the player base reminds me of the classic abusive relationship.

Tanaka (SE) just abused the crap out of you. Knowingly did it, even camp out and said he did it on purpose. But said he's sorry since he's *** is about to be on the street and will try and make it up to you. Since he acknowledge it and appologies, everything is peachy now cause he(SE) has changed. He(SE) use to never tell you anything. Never listened to what you had to say. But now it's all different. (Turning a blind eye to what has happened before and to the motive behind the change of heart)

The Stockholm Syndrome.

Edited, Nov 12th 2010 11:07pm by doubleax

Edited, Nov 13th 2010 12:24am by doubleax
#42 Nov 12 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
Kachi wrote:
Republicans can and will filibuster anything that doesn't get at least 60 votes, which the democrats never had during this presidency, particularly because some democratic congressmen aren't actually progressive democrats. Some are fiscal conservatives and some are social conservatives, and they'll vote republican on certain issues. For example, some democrats wouldn't vote on the health care bill because republicans made it seem as if the bill gave federal money for abortions. Well, no socially conservative democrat can vote for that, even if they agree with every other thing in the bill.

Ultimately having a simple majority means nothing, particularly because republicans are determined to make the democrats fail at their agenda. They have incredible solidarity and are more inclined to place politics before passing beneficial legislation. Conversely, democrats tend to compromise with the republicans when they're in power. Even though it makes the republicans look like they're getting things done, the democrats usually let them because it's better than doing nothing.

Depends on the particular legislation to an extent, of course. Sometimes republicans are reasonable and compromising, and sometimes democrats aren't.


Majority in numbers does mean something. If the Republicans filibuster something then the Democratic majority can move to close with a 3/5(60%) vote. The simple fact is that the democratic party is not united as it once was. Republicans do tend to stick to the same ideologies (wether right or wrong).

Kachi wrote:
Poor analogy of how SE won't keep promises just like Obama didn't keep promises.


SE promised me something. That something I've yet to see.
Obama promised me something. That something I've yet to see.


#43 Nov 12 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:

SE promised me something. That something I've yet to see.
Obama promised me something. That something I've yet to see.




I think the idea is that in a perfect world, people claiming to be mature adults would consider the answer to the question, "Why is that?" when shaping their opinions.

But most don't, and that's why we can't have nice things.
#44 Nov 12 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
2,536 posts
It's so damned typical of Tanaka to make excuses and blame it on the fans. He should learn from Wada and just admit they messed up and are now working as hard as they can to fix the problem.

Wada > Tanaka

The ONLY thing SE/Tanaka needs...

...is to lose their ego.

And this game will instantly start becoming the game we are all dreaming of.



Edited, Nov 12th 2010 11:22pm by Threx
____________________________
FF11 Server: Caitsith
Kalyna (retired, 2008)
100 Goldsmith
75 Rng, Brd
Main/Acc
Exp/Hybrid
Str/Attk
Spam/Others
#45 Nov 12 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Excellent
*
63 posts
Anyone who took part in Alpha or Beta testing knows that the development team was well aware of the issues. There were posts upon posts about the same stuff people gripe about today.

For some reason I was dumb enough to tell myself that somehow the release version would be better. I mean how could the dev. team ignore all those complaints? Surely they'd be working on fixing the issues because the people they chose to test their product said there were flaws. Again, this all stems from high expectations from SE and the franchise, which SE has shown twice now that it's undeserved.

In hindsight I blame myself a little for having such high expectations of SE. But at the same time I can't help but be upset with them for being well aware of the problems and still sending it to market.

The invention of patches has lead to poor product testing before release, relying on the consumer to get it done. Thank goodness some companies refuse to let this become their practice and won't even speak of a release date until their product is satisfactory.
#46 Nov 13 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
**
315 posts
I love how people seem to "forget" that most of beta was cancled due to server stability. That a release date was set in stone and couldn't change it. Be lucky to play. Be lucky SE is doing anything. You guys blaming SE are as much fault. You rush stuff and expect more too soon. Think before posting. FFXIV had a TON of unexpected problems, and release dates can't be changed that close to the set date. Any research you can find beta posts about cancelations for weeks just to get the servers working. Again I love how ppl seem to forget that even happen. It was reason for the server stability issues the game was bare bones, Also stop thinking/assuming its so easy to make/ release/ fix an mmorpg. ITS NOT.
Not defending SE by any means but really tired of the pointless complaints as if beta was perfect.
____________________________
can you ware shoes in clown shoes
#47 Nov 13 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
Anyone who took part in Alpha or Beta testing knows that the development team was well aware of the issues. There were posts upon posts about the same stuff people gripe about today.

For some reason I was dumb enough to tell myself that somehow the release version would be better. I mean how could the dev. team ignore all those complaints? Surely they'd be working on fixing the issues because the people they chose to test their product said there were flaws. Again, this all stems from high expectations from SE and the franchise, which SE has shown twice now that it's undeserved.

In hindsight I blame myself a little for having such high expectations of SE. But at the same time I can't help but be upset with them for being well aware of the problems and still sending it to market.

The invention of patches has lead to poor product testing before release, relying on the consumer to get it done. Thank goodness some companies refuse to let this become their practice and won't even speak of a release date until their product is satisfactory.


So umm...did you read what he said at all? About the devs being busy with bugs and unable to address a lot of the changes they wanted to make? You understand the difference between fixing a bug and making a change, yes? I just don't understand where you folks get hung up on this. Do you not read? Do you just skim topics and then barf out your misinformed opinions like you have the clue that you don't? Beta isn't, "Okay, as far as we know, the game is done and ready to go so now come in and let us know what you think." Beta is, "The game is in a playable state and while we continue work on it towards release, come on in and help us dig out bugs and give us feedback on what we have so far."

That's what beta is about. Not an entire dev team twiddling their thumbs waiting for feedback so they can jump all over it and have a completely different game 3 days later. You guys really need to stop this nonsense. You can only get so far in life with your eyes shut and your ears covered before people start labeling you in unflattering ways. Pay friggin' attention. Life is a lot less confusing and frustrating that way.
#48 Nov 13 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
551 posts
Irishclass777 wrote:
I love how people seem to "forget" that most of beta was cancled due to server stability. That a release date was set in stone and couldn't change it. Be lucky to play. Be lucky SE is doing anything. You guys blaming SE are as much fault. You rush stuff and expect more too soon. Think before posting. FFXIV had a TON of unexpected problems, and release dates can't be changed that close to the set date. Any research you can find beta posts about cancelations for weeks just to get the servers working. Again I love how ppl seem to forget that even happen. It was reason for the server stability issues the game was bare bones, Also stop thinking/assuming its so easy to make/ release/ fix an mmorpg. ITS NOT.
Not defending SE by any means but really tired of the pointless complaints as if beta was perfect.


Your post was nothing but a useless rant. Any company and/pr publisher can delay a game's release anytime they want, up to and even including on the day of release. The only ones responsible for SE not delaying until the game was properly beta tested was SE, noone else.

And rush stuff? Rush what? There's no **** content in the game TO rush through.

Be lucky SE is doing something? More like SE should be lucky there's anyone left to do things for.

So here's an idea: YOU think before posting. Then when you have thought about it, don't post. Think about it some more.
____________________________



#49 Nov 13 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Default
**
315 posts
@ Zor. Did you even read what I wrote? Guess not as you called it a useless rant. It is tiring to read people talk about beta and feedback COMPLETELY forgeting the server stability issues and the several weeks of beta cancelations due to server stability. And not really. When you got a set release date for a game like an mmo you do have to ship it on that date. It not easy to change it. Alot of read tape to go through. Also mmorpg are a different beast then a non online game. mmo are NEVER complete. They are always changing. And yes after the release of the game SE did PLAN for those updates. Do you guys even look up how games are made? The man hours devs put in? the games server stability issues lead to this state of the game. We don't like it SE knows this and knows what to do to fix it. But don't sit and talk smack when you don;t look at the full spectrum of events that took place around the ffxiv launch, its beta and alpha. SE could have ignored the server stability. Lesser of 2 evils.
____________________________
can you ware shoes in clown shoes
#50 Nov 13 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
*
63 posts
Aurelius wrote:
So umm...did you read what he said at all? About the devs being busy with bugs and unable to address a lot of the changes they wanted to make?


Yes, the devs did a great job of fixing grammatical errors, did a lot of work on load balancing the servers and fixing other random bugs that would crash the server or client. Tanaka is stating the obvious when he says they were aware of the issues, there is no way the dev team couldn't be aware unless they ignored their own message board. The real question is why didn't SE reevaluate the release date based on the feedback from Beta?

Yeah, I knew all those bolts weren't torqued properly on your car and I really wanted to do things right. But I promised you your car would be ready by 5pm and I couldn't be bothered to let the quality of my work get in the way of that.

That is what I see when I read what Tanaka had to say.

EDIT: What is all this about SE being unable to delay the release date? How many times has Gran Turismo 5 been delayed? There is nothing that stopped SE from delaying this release besides their lack of integrity.

Edited, Nov 13th 2010 2:23am by KitsurubamiSouzahara
#51 Nov 13 2010 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
So umm...did you read what he said at all? About the devs being busy with bugs and unable to address a lot of the changes they wanted to make?


Yes, the devs did a great job of fixing grammatical errors, did a lot of work on load balancing the servers and fixing other random bugs that would crash the server or client. Tanaka is stating the obvious when he says they were aware of the issues, there is no way the dev team couldn't be aware unless they ignored their own message board. The real question is why didn't SE reevaluate the release date based on the feedback from Beta?

Yeah, I knew all those bolts weren't torqued properly on your car and I really wanted to do things right. But I promised you your car would be ready by 5pm and I couldn't be bothered to let the quality of my work get in the way of that.

That is what I see when I read what Tanaka had to say.

EDIT: What is all this about SE being unable to delay the release date? How many times has Gran Turismo 5 been delayed? There is nothing that stopped SE from delaying this release besides their lack of integrity.


SE is notorious for hovering on the verge of bankruptcy between major releases. That much is documented fact. If you'll recall, the date for PC release shocked the **** out of pretty much everyone. Nobody expected it to be that soon relative to the state of the beta at the time. Ask Pikko and crew how many hours they spent doling out beta keys only to have the closed beta shut down within two weeks and the open beta dumped on us followed shortly after by a release date. And anyone with half a clue at that time could have told you that the game wasn't going to ship anywhere near the state of polish we might have hoped for. Were you not here on these boards for all the people swearing up and down that there would be this massive change between what we saw in open beta and what we'd get with the retail release?

Do you not remember the uproar from the PS3 players when we went from E3 "everything is on track for simultaneous release on both platforms" to a week later, "PC CE Sept. 22, SE Sept. 3, PS3 March 2011." You remember that, yes? And back when it happened I posted about how it was probably Wada's decision to pull the trigger on release. Wada...an executive, not a developer. Wada...the guy whose job it is to monitor the finances. Wada...the guy so far removed from key development decisions he might as well be a blind consultant. Yet despite all that, like most game studio managers, he has final say on what ships and when. Nobody here has ever defended the timing of the release as a smart decision, but that doesn't excuse willful stupidity. It has been explained. Read it. Read it again until it sinks in. Your questions are moot. Your kvetches are moot. It's done. Accept it.

It seems to me like a lot of people are going out of their way to ignore certain things. I think they know that if they sat down and looked at it rationally that the only adult response to all of this is to show a little patience and a little less childish petulance over the whole ordeal. Put 2 and 2 together ffs. Nobody should have been surprised that things worked out the way that they did.
« Previous 1 2
This thread is locked
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 23 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (23)