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Becoming Optomistic AgainFollow

#1 Nov 13 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
I know that this is a feeling not shared by all, but with the outline of upcoming changes here, it has renewed my optimism for this game, and has made me decide to continue playing it again, after taking a break from it for a few weeks.

I really think we are going to end up with a game that is significantly better than ffxi, but I do think it is going to take some time to get there. The game has a big hump to get over, mainly that being the bad press it has received and the continuing negative reactions from a large part of the community.

But a lot of that negativity will dissipate in time. There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year. Whether people want to wait a year or not is questionable, well... let's be realistic... it's doubtful, but there will still be enough people playing the game to keep it going. And come a year from now we will have so much more content, and almost all of our frustrations are being resolved as we speak.

I don't expect that many of the upcoming changes are going to satisfy those who are already beyond ticked off about the game. I think most of the really vocal people have already made up their minds, and nothing short of a true miracle patch is going to change that. I don't think these people are going to enjoy the game until it's had a few years of development, expansions and content added to the game.

But for those of us who are interested in seeing this game succeed, despite its current flaws, I think we have a lot to look forward to. I think we are going to end up with what many of us expected... a true sequel to FFXI, after the fashion of FF sequels in general.... that being something that retains the same feel, but has a totally different world and progression system. Well, perhaps I speak broadly there, but that's what I expected, and that's the feeling I get from a lot of other posters.

So for those of you who are with me in seeing this thing through, I am glad to say I will be playing regularly again, and that I have great hope for where this game is going, and that once again, I have the feeling that this game is worth paying for, even as is, but especially with what I am looking forward to seeing.

For those who scoff at this, I bear you no hard feelings. And I think time will prove this game to be a cut above most of the rest. It won't be as popular as WoW Cataclysm, The Old Republic, or Guild Wars II I am guessing... but I do believe it will have a healthy and loyal community, where those who do decide to play, will be able to enjoy themselves as much as they did in FFXI, in a game that puts a different spin on things, and which ultimately, I believe, will offer more than its predecessor.

Thanks for reading all, may you have a great weekend no matter whether you agree with me or not. Happy gaming!
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#2 Nov 13 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is exactly how I feel as well and couldn't agree more. I haven't played the game for over a month except for doing a couple of leves but now I can't wait to get back into it. I'm sure it'll surpass my expectations within the next year or so.

Also, you live in Halifax? Me too! Well next to it...
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#3 Nov 13 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that the thing that keeps me playing is the promise of better things to come. I mean, I'm having fun right now, but I'm pretty sure my faith for the future is what keeps me actually logging on everyday and grind those levels.

I'm very happy to see a "slow paced" mmo like this, and really want it to survive. I may take breaks every once in a while, like I did in XI, and visit other greener pastures, but I really have this feeling that I'll miss XIV's unique experience and return time and time again, for the next 6-7 years.
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#4 Nov 13 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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There's been a lot of good news lately, but be cautious.

Quote:
There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year.

There are still at least two big ones we've heard nothing about: the lack of variety in zones and the lack of NPC quests (actually, content in general). Lots of the announced changes probably aren't going to work out like they're supposed to, either.

The game may be on the right track now, but it's still going to be a long haul.
#5 Nov 13 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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This brings up an interesting question:

How are review sites going to review the ps3 version of the game?
I mean, besides some of the issues mentioned above, roughly 90% of what gave FFXIV such bad scores will be fixed by the time the ps3 version releases. It'll be interesting to see whether these same sites give the ps3 version a better score AND go back and re-review the pc version.

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#6 Nov 13 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Borkachev wrote:
There's been a lot of good news lately, but be cautious.

Quote:
There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year.

There are still at least two big ones we've heard nothing about: the lack of variety in zones and the lack of NPC quests (actually, content in general). Lots of the announced changes probably aren't going to work out like they're supposed to, either.

The game may be on the right track now, but it's still going to be a long haul.


I feel the same way. To say that no reasonable issue will be left unfixed over the next year is just simply put, making stuff up. Its not helpful to be a blind proponent of the game like that. Its not helpful to blindly smash it either. What is helpful is to constructively identify major (and minor) issues and make noise about them. Someone has to keep SE focused on fixing the right issues and that job seems to be up to the customer.

Long haul indeed. $255 of long haul, potentially more. Optimism doesn't pay my monthly bill.

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#7 Nov 13 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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MerylStryfe wrote:
This brings up an interesting question:

How are review sites going to review the ps3 version of the game?
I mean, besides some of the issues mentioned above, roughly 90% of what gave FFXIV such bad scores will be fixed by the time the ps3 version releases. It'll be interesting to see whether these same sites give the ps3 version a better score AND go back and re-review the pc version.



It's only an interesting question if you hadn't participated in closed alpha/beta. The reason why is that even the majority of the issues they listed as known in those phases persisted through release. It didn't hit them in the pocket then so it was ok to pass off the blame on things like "programs running in the background checking processes". There will still be a few things they won't be able to adjust or will probably never be able to fix based on the development and design.

To answer your question, if the game is 90% better when the PS3 version rolls around then the PS3 reviews will reflect that. Games get reviewed on release, not every time a patch or expansion comes through. You can forgive someone for the spill, but the stain remains.


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#8 Nov 13 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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good analogy and nice use of the word stain..

But seriously... personally im feeling really positive that this game might start to live up to some if its potential and its also nice to see these forums finally start to not be filled with endless repetative negatives posts (although the share price posts are still in full force).



Edited, Nov 13th 2010 7:41pm by taningard
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#9 Nov 13 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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A lot of people are not going to give SE the benefit of the doubt over this. They aren't new to the MMO scene, they're not new to the computer game scene, they basically pioneered cross-platform MMORPG - and fell flat on their faces over XIV. Computer gamers are a lot more savvy about what they lay their cash out on, especially in these recession hit times, and a game like XIV that has been YEARS in the making should have come out on a silver platter and made us queue up for the privilege of paying SE money to play. Instead, they screwed the pooch, royally. They have a lot of making up to do, and cash-paying customers have *zero* responsiblity to them. Over to you SE. You got a few weeks to fix XIV, or you have blown it.

Edited, Nov 13th 2010 7:25pm by Almantia
#10 Nov 14 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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think realitically though, game had a harsh beta full of server stability issues. WHAT did you expect after that XD. silly people, with their un realistic sence of how games are made. :3 a lil research goes a long way. Like the 5+ hours it takes to make 1 object in a game. then the 2 weeks to tweak that object and place it all over. As for zones I though it was free world, plus that comes with new mmo. Zones are added over time. Plus really SE makes the landscape realistic. Beats some mmo I played that go through extreme with each step. Like 1 step its winter next step harsh desert.
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#11Hyanmen, Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 4:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Then they are pretty **** retarded for not playing a good game (a year from now) because of what the game "should have been like" a year from then.
#12 Nov 14 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
i really like the game now, sure theres a lot of issues but thats the good thing about online games, theres always gonna be a patch round the corner. theres only 2 things that bother me enough to care at the moment and thats the lack of a manual or auto sort ability for your items and trying to find an item in the wards/dens.
i still really enjoy playing it tho.
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#13 Nov 14 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing I'm most optimistic about is that SE appears to be willing to compromise on their "vision" for the game and begin to comment on and implement player suggestions. I don't want to play an MMO that is entirely one person's vision; such a game cannot possibly cater to the vast differences that make up the MMO market. Likewise I don't want to play an MMO that institutes every player suggested change; the squeaky wheel gets the grease and lets face it, the squeakiest wheels here are generally the most unrealistic. A compromise between the two, in my opinion, will make a great game.
#14 Nov 14 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
A lot of people are not going to give SE the benefit of the doubt over this.


Then they are pretty **** retarded for not playing a good game (a year from now) because of what the game "should have been like" a year from then.

That is simply dumb as ****.



seriously? you sir are an idiot then. why would they give them any benefit of the doubt when they havent released a fun or good game in at least 5 years.....and wow so u are already saying this will be a good game in a year? probable one of those guys that said it will be good in beta....wait it will be good on launch...wait one month and it will be good!....no it is bad now, it might get a little better, bad as OP said. other games are coming....and they will be a lot better. 3 mmos off the top of my head that will probable be better at release then this game is in one year. rift, starwars, and DC....just saying SE has a terrible track record.
#15 Nov 14 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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First impressions mean a lot in the gaming world. While it is true that most MMOs that have flopped on release do get better, they never get a lot of their potential subscribers back. (Like Age of Conan, for example.)

What FFXIV has going for it though, as opposed to other MMOs that have tumbled at their launch is that it has a second chance at fame by all of the gaming sites on the PlayStation 3 release where it is likely to be reviewed again. That being said, I'm being cautiously optimistic about it.

I'm waiting until the update with the ships and what not in 2011 before I make any decisions on whether I'm still playing or not.
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#16Hyanmen, Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 2:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Because there is WoW, and WoW replaces all of them.
#17 Nov 14 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
First impressions mean a lot in the gaming world. While it is true that most MMOs that have flopped on release do get better, they never get a lot of their potential subscribers back.


Because there is WoW, and WoW replaces all of them.

Does WoW (or any of the clones coming out soon) replace this game for you? I don't think I can agree with that.



I'll be the one to say, you're the one who brought WoW into the discussion.

Since you're asking me personally, I haven't played any MMO outside of Final Fantasy XI/XIV. I also maintain an active subscription in both. That being said, I have no interest in playing World of Warcraft, I wanted to play Final Fantasy XIV because of its rich storyline, and really, right now that's all it has going for it in its current version. I'm excited about these updates, but as Yoichi Wada said, what Square-Enix needs to do now is put faith in their consumers that they can release quality games once more.

They have yet to convince me.
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#18 Nov 14 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Since you're asking me personally, I haven't played any MMO outside of Final Fantasy XI/XIV. I also maintain an active subscription in both. That being said, I have no interest in playing World of Warcraft, I wanted to play Final Fantasy XIV because of its rich storyline, and really, right now that's all it has going for it in its current version.


Precisely. If you want to play a Final Fantasy MMO, you don't choose Guild Wars 2. You don't choose the Star Wars game. They are not copies of XIV that you can just go back to if the game fails. All you can do is wait, maybe see if these games have something to offer you, and if not, you go back to waiting.

If AoC or WAR failed there's always the back-up game to go back to which is more of the same but simply better. These games do not bring many new MMO players to the genre as much as they steal them from other games, and usually lose them just as fast. They don't have enough going for them that only they can offer and "this one other game" can't.

Edited, Nov 14th 2010 11:15pm by Hyanmen
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#19 Nov 14 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry, but I still don't see being different from the competition as reasons to still release a sub-par product at launch.

Although it didn't get as much hype as XIV, this is not the first time Square-Enix has done this either. In 2007, they released "Wings of the Goddess" as an expansion for Final Fantasy XI. It was about 1/10 done, and only had about a 1/3 of the zones that it has now. Only started with two missions and a quest. Fast forward three years later, and it's still not completed.

As for the game's future: Have they really learned their lesson to stop releasing products with minimal content/fixes and relying on us players to "just wait"? I just hope that any expansions for XIV aren't released like this or it'll be more of the same threads on the forum, only directed at the expansion rather than the vanilla client.
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#20 Nov 14 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I still don't see being different from the competition as reasons to still release a sub-par product at launch.


It's not. I'm not even saying it is. I'm just saying why these "other MMO's" don't get subscribers back is not only because they released in a sub-par state, but because they had nothing of value to give to the potential players, even if they were patched to be complete.

I don't care about you being butthurt about the rushed release. I am simply continuing the argument against the quote that started it.

Quote:
First impressions mean a lot in the gaming world. While it is true that most MMOs that have flopped on release do get better, they never get a lot of their potential subscribers back.


Edited, Nov 14th 2010 11:35pm by Hyanmen
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#21 Nov 14 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Do you have a MMO that states otherwise?
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#22 Nov 14 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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There has not been an MMO in the same situation yet.

And if you think I am saying XIV can't fail, you are mistaken. I am simply saying it is not such a black and white situation as with other MMO's that turned out bad, because of the reasons stated above.

I forgot to mention that XIV actually gets a second chance too. This is not a luxury most MMO's get.

Either way if they're not using their pile of gold they're sitting on to fix the game asap, it is meaningless. These update notes say they are doing that, but the actual updates may turn out to be lackluster.

Conclusions can not be drawn at this time.
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#23 Nov 14 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
There has not been an MMO in the same situation yet.

And if you think I am saying XIV can't fail, you are mistaken. I am simply saying it is not such a black and white situation as with other MMO's that turned out bad, because of the reasons stated above.

I forgot to mention that XIV actually gets a second chance too. This is not a luxury most MMO's get.

Either way if they're not using their pile of gold they're sitting on to fix the game asap, it is meaningless. These update notes say they are doing that, but the actual updates may turn out to be lackluster.

Conclusions can not be drawn at this time.



you are wrong about this, XIV does get a second change but jesus people arent going to say OMG well that game totally blew *** on pc i should buy it for 60 dollars!

and vanguard is a case of a game that was terrible on release. and never came back from it, even though now its a really fun and great game, and vanguard still has some of the best class systems in a game and event he combat system works great. but since it had a bad launch because of bugs, it never recovered.
#24 Nov 14 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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ironmonk25 wrote:



you are wrong about this, XIV does get a second change but jesus people arent going to say OMG well that game totally blew *** on pc i should buy it for 60 dollars!

and vanguard is a case of a game that was terrible on release. and never came back from it, even though now its a really fun and great game, and vanguard still has some of the best class systems in a game and event he combat system works great. but since it had a bad launch because of bugs, it never recovered.


The difference between Final Fantasy and Vanguard is that the former is a well-respected top franchise.

I've never even heard of Vanguard until I've seen it on posts here about "other failed MMOs that never made it out". I agree with Hyanmen that Final Fantasy XIV has not quite been in this scenario before, but given the track record of other MMOs that aren't quite as known, it's going to be interesting to see how XIV gets its way out of that demise.
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#25 Nov 14 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
ironmonk25 wrote:



you are wrong about this, XIV does get a second change but jesus people arent going to say OMG well that game totally blew *** on pc i should buy it for 60 dollars!

and vanguard is a case of a game that was terrible on release. and never came back from it, even though now its a really fun and great game, and vanguard still has some of the best class systems in a game and event he combat system works great. but since it had a bad launch because of bugs, it never recovered.


The difference between Final Fantasy and Vanguard is that the former is a well-respected top franchise.

I've never even heard of Vanguard until I've seen it on posts here about "other failed MMOs that never made it out". I agree with Hyanmen that Final Fantasy XIV has not quite been in this scenario before, but given the track record of other MMOs that aren't quite as known, it's going to be interesting to see how XIV gets its way out of that demise.



vanguard was very well known in the MMO community before its launch, it was suppose to be the next big thing. EQ players where looking forward to it the most. I was one of the many that was let down by it. but vanguard is a polished game now. graphically i will take its world over FFXIV.
#26 Nov 14 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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when it comes to wings of the goddess, thats a different story. first off unlike the past storylines added in the expack, wings had 3 town story linequests then the main mission line. in december they are finishing the main mission line. they also added 5 addons also.

But as someone Said AoC basically was highly rated and failed, but it is still running.
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#27 Nov 14 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
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Borkachev wrote:
There's been a lot of good news lately, but be cautious.

Quote:
There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year.

There are still at least two big ones we've heard nothing about: the lack of variety in zones and the lack of NPC quests (actually, content in general). Lots of the announced changes probably aren't going to work out like they're supposed to, either.

The game may be on the right track now, but it's still going to be a long haul.



How many times has SE released information on their faceblow content way before it was coming out? That's right. 0 times. You won;t know about the content until it is set in stone and coming out next week, and that;s if they don't add it and just make patch notes for you to be surprised by. This is how SE does things. You should know this by now.

If you're expecting an immediate change to another game... well, you might as well move on now.
#28 Nov 14 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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zoltanrs wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
There's been a lot of good news lately, but be cautious.

Quote:
There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year.

There are still at least two big ones we've heard nothing about: the lack of variety in zones and the lack of NPC quests (actually, content in general). Lots of the announced changes probably aren't going to work out like they're supposed to, either.

The game may be on the right track now, but it's still going to be a long haul.



How many times has SE released information on their faceblow content way before it was coming out? That's right. 0 times. You won;t know about the content until it is set in stone and coming out next week, and that;s if they don't add it and just make patch notes for you to be surprised by. This is how SE does things. You should know this by now.

If you're expecting an immediate change to another game... well, you might as well move on now.



.....

what do you call this: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

Looks like a list of things they're going to change over the next few MONTHS

Everybody: enough with this "SE is so secretive" bullcrap.
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#29 Nov 14 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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zoltanrs wrote:
How many times has SE released information on their faceblow content way before it was coming out? That's right. 0 times. You won;t know about the content until it is set in stone and coming out next week, and that;s if they don't add it and just make patch notes for you to be surprised by. This is how SE does things. You should know this by now.

If you're expecting an immediate change to another game... well, you might as well move on now.
It really doesn't matter much what SE did or didn't in the past, in the current situation of the game, they better change radically and fast.

I read through the whole update compendium in lodestone and to tell you the truth it didn't impressed me, although it gave me hope, the hope that this game potential will flourish and that SE actually cares about our opinion.

But to be honest it's still way too early to be optimistic, matter of fact this game is 1 week away from the 60 days online mark and we still don't have basic features like item sorting, and a many fellows are just waiting for the late November patch to decide if they cancel or maintain the subscription.

They better keep up with what it's promised in lodestone, because words without actions will only worsen the situation.

Sincerely.

Ken
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#30 Nov 15 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
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Gadhelyn wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
There's been a lot of good news lately, but be cautious.

Quote:
There is not a reasonable issue that I have heard that just simply put, is not going to be fixed over the next year.

There are still at least two big ones we've heard nothing about: the lack of variety in zones and the lack of NPC quests (actually, content in general). Lots of the announced changes probably aren't going to work out like they're supposed to, either.

The game may be on the right track now, but it's still going to be a long haul.



How many times has SE released information on their faceblow content way before it was coming out? That's right. 0 times. You won;t know about the content until it is set in stone and coming out next week, and that;s if they don't add it and just make patch notes for you to be surprised by. This is how SE does things. You should know this by now.

If you're expecting an immediate change to another game... well, you might as well move on now.



.....

what do you call this: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

Looks like a list of things they're going to change over the next few MONTHS

Everybody: enough with this "SE is so secretive" bullcrap.
Also fairly sure they announced the next year's worth of development in FFXI back in the end of January or early February at this year's Vana'fest.
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#31 Nov 15 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Default
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yup they already got notes starting for december update on ffxi. the end of wings looks like it gonna be good :3 they also stated dec is when ffxi job emotes are coming out. :3
the reason for lack of fixes during beta was servet stability, and the time line. all games follow a strict sced they must meet. Even if Crap hits the fan. With mmo though they can rework the game even after release. But it does take time and you can't do too much w/o nearly breaking the game code. I laugh every time ppl forget how many times beta was canceled to fix the server stability issues. You can't add content or features if the game is having a hard time running that just makes the problem worst. A perfect example is loading a leaky boat with heavy cargo and watching it sink THEN try patching the leaks vs patching the leaks then test the cargo if it floats add more. :)
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#32 Nov 15 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
The reason why I said all reasonable issues people have now will be fixed in a year, is because everything that people have complained about since day one is slated to be addressed by the January 2011 patch. And as far as lacking content goes, that is very subjective, but even still, I expect they will have released an expansion within a years time, or not too much longer after.

However I realize most of the people arguing, are deeply entrenched in their position, and just read posts looking for anything that could be construed by someone as a flaw, and then exploit it, to the benefit of their own message. But hey if you want to live your lives in unhappy contention, that's your choice.
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#33 Nov 15 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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You can forgive someone for the spill, but the stain remains.


And for the stain to remain our pain will sustain?
#34 Nov 15 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can forgive someone for the spill, but the stain remains.




Square-Enix: the BP of the gaming world. XD
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#35 Nov 15 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Content is the big one.

I think everyone assumes that the small annoying issues will be fixed (AI, lag, market config).

But the bigger issue is the game itself. The playability. That thing that draws you stay up way too late and log back in the next day. Definable goals. Rewarding goals. There are none, and it's really difficult to determine if there are any plans for some based on the list of upcoming updates.

Storyline quests, class quests, and expanded guildeves don't really sound like the type of content that I had in mind.

Things that made ffxi fun right from the beginning, through to the end; subjob quests, chocobo quest, airship pass, questing for scrolls, equipping gear at certain levels, bcnm's, levle cap quests, gear quests (RSE, AF), it goes on and on....

Then there's huge quests like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, MMM, etc, etc, etc, etc...
#36 Nov 15 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Definitely good to be optimistic. If you look at the amazing detail of the look of the game, and how much time they spent on the stuff that is finished... You can really tell how big of plans they have for the game. Yeah they made a huge mistake by releasing it before it was finished, but at least it will be where it should've been by PS3 release (from the looks of it anyway). As for the "stain", I agree to an extent but some TV ads, positive PS3 reviews, and word of mouth will bring it back and we'll all be like "lol remember launch?" for years to come. =P

And no that's not a Fanboy wet dream, I think it's a reasonable assessment. ;)
#37 Nov 15 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Content is the big one.

I think everyone assumes that the small annoying issues will be fixed (AI, lag, market config).

But the bigger issue is the game itself. The playability. That thing that draws you stay up way too late and log back in the next day. Definable goals. Rewarding goals. There are none, and it's really difficult to determine if there are any plans for some based on the list of upcoming updates.

Storyline quests, class quests, and expanded guildeves don't really sound like the type of content that I had in mind.

Things that made ffxi fun right from the beginning, through to the end; subjob quests, chocobo quest, airship pass, questing for scrolls, equipping gear at certain levels, bcnm's, levle cap quests, gear quests (RSE, AF), it goes on and on....

Then there's huge quests like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, MMM, etc, etc, etc, etc...


what expansion was dynamis, limbus etc etc?

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 12:25pm by TempLoop
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#38 Nov 15 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Dynamis was post Zilart, shortly after the level cap increase to 75. Limbus was a little while after COP was released.
#39 Nov 15 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eldonia wrote:
Dynamis was post Zilart, shortly after the level cap increase to 75. Limbus was a little while after COP was released.


and initially level cap was 50, no? then when they made cap higher, they added level increase quests. idk to me it seems there is a fad of some sorts to hate ffxiv. enjoyment = fanboy. hate = cool kid. tbh, i think it is a little unfair that ppl get to complain about it so openly where others on the defense over ffxiv. while someone trying to talk about the game and what they like can get flamed. i care about them hating ffxiv as much as they care about me enjoying it... which is... not at all. each to their own. i'll be glad when these bickering old ladies finally get up the nerve to quiet down and qq.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 12:33pm by TempLoop
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#40 Nov 15 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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TempLoop wrote:
Eldonia wrote:
Dynamis was post Zilart, shortly after the level cap increase to 75. Limbus was a little while after COP was released.


and initially level cap was 50, no? then when they made cap higher, they added level increase quests. idk to me it seems there is a fad of some sorts to hate ffxiv. enjoyment = fanboy. hate = cool kid. tbh, i think it is a little unfair that ppl get to complain about it so openly where others on the defense over ffxiv. while someone trying to talk about the game and what they like can get flamed. i care about them hating ffxiv as much as they care about me enjoying it... which is... not at all. each to their own. i'll be glad when these bickering old ladies finally get up the nerve to quiet down and qq.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 12:33pm by TempLoop


I'm enjoying the game, but in no way excusing it. But, as for the complaining goes.. When it comes down to it the game has exactly one major issue... the fact that they F'in released it months before it was ready. There's only so much you can complain about that simple fact before it starts getting a little repetitive. With that said, though, the folks who complained loudly about specific issues with the game are largely responsible for the updates from SE.
#41 Nov 15 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Eldonia wrote:
TempLoop wrote:
Eldonia wrote:
Dynamis was post Zilart, shortly after the level cap increase to 75. Limbus was a little while after COP was released.


and initially level cap was 50, no? then when they made cap higher, they added level increase quests. idk to me it seems there is a fad of some sorts to hate ffxiv. enjoyment = fanboy. hate = cool kid. tbh, i think it is a little unfair that ppl get to complain about it so openly where others on the defense over ffxiv. while someone trying to talk about the game and what they like can get flamed. i care about them hating ffxiv as much as they care about me enjoying it... which is... not at all. each to their own. i'll be glad when these bickering old ladies finally get up the nerve to quiet down and qq.

Edited, Nov 15th 2010 12:33pm by TempLoop


I'm enjoying the game, but in no way excusing it. But, as for the complaining goes.. When it comes down to it the game has exactly one major issue... the fact that they F'in released it months before it was ready. There's only so much you can complain about that simple fact before it starts getting a little repetitive. With that said, though, the folks who complained loudly about specific issues with the game are largely responsible for the updates from SE.


I still believe there is a venue for complaining where it will make a difference and it is certainly not here. You people are like loud unhappy fat ppl at mcdonalds, you'll never leave and you just sit there yelling at employees and trying to get other customers to share in your enthusiasm yet you never pull your head out of your ****** enough to notice the suggestion box. Just because you don't get as much of an imediate response from the company does it mean that any of us care or could do anything if we wanted to. Start a support group about it and send your suggestions, otherwise you are just in fact loud and that is all.
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#42 Nov 15 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You people are like loud unhappy fat ppl at mcdonalds, you'll never leave and you just sit there yelling at employees and trying to get other customers to share in your enthusiasm yet you never pull your head out of your ****** enough to notice the suggestion box


Really? Zam has ALWAYS been a premiere site for SE - **** the system messages in XI still reference ZAM (I believe the pumpkin carving contest was the latest), so why are you acting like this isn't the appropriate venue for communicating our thoughts to SE? I'll grant that some of the complaints are duplicated sufficiently as to have gotten the message across and further iteration just grates on one's nerves... But to act like this isn't the appropriate place to voice said concerns is naivety at its best.

I won't say that I am necessarily becoming any more optimistic than I was when it was released, but rather realistic about what they can accomplish before Ps3 release. Do I think the game will improve? Well of COURSE it will improve. The question is, will it improve to a sufficient degree as to keep the loyal, win back the skeptics, and entice the masses?

Only time will tell, and I'd rather not get my hopes up and be disappointed again.
#43 Nov 15 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Content is the big one.

I think everyone assumes that the small annoying issues will be fixed (AI, lag, market config).

But the bigger issue is the game itself. The playability. That thing that draws you stay up way too late and log back in the next day. Definable goals. Rewarding goals. There are none, and it's really difficult to determine if there are any plans for some based on the list of upcoming updates.

Storyline quests, class quests, and expanded guildeves don't really sound like the type of content that I had in mind.

Things that made ffxi fun right from the beginning, through to the end; subjob quests, chocobo quest, airship pass, questing for scrolls, equipping gear at certain levels, bcnm's, levle cap quests, gear quests (RSE, AF), it goes on and on....

Then there's huge quests like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, MMM, etc, etc, etc, etc...


Honestly a lot of what you say is "fun" was nothing but a PITA for me. I hated having to farm fame to get my teleport scrolls. I hated farming keys to get to Qufim. I didn't actually find the chocobo quest "fun". So if when you are asking for content you are asking for road blocks - I say meh. I am having fun exploring the world, getting stronger and winning battles against all manner of creatures.
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#44 Nov 15 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
Content is the big one.

I think everyone assumes that the small annoying issues will be fixed (AI, lag, market config).

But the bigger issue is the game itself. The playability. That thing that draws you stay up way too late and log back in the next day. Definable goals. Rewarding goals. There are none, and it's really difficult to determine if there are any plans for some based on the list of upcoming updates.

Storyline quests, class quests, and expanded guildeves don't really sound like the type of content that I had in mind.

Things that made ffxi fun right from the beginning, through to the end; subjob quests, chocobo quest, airship pass, questing for scrolls, equipping gear at certain levels, bcnm's, levle cap quests, gear quests (RSE, AF), it goes on and on....

Then there's huge quests like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, MMM, etc, etc, etc, etc...


Honestly a lot of what you say is "fun" was nothing but a PITA for me. I hated having to farm fame to get my teleport scrolls. I hated farming keys to get to Qufim. I didn't actually find the chocobo quest "fun". So if when you are asking for content you are asking for road blocks - I say meh. I am having fun exploring the world, getting stronger and winning battles against all manner of creatures.


I'm going to have to agree with Mith here actually. I liked all of those quests, OK maybe not the Chocobo one and fame quests, but the ones like Genkei or Rank that forced you to group up and overcome an obstacle. I haven't played very many games that did that especially mid-game. Though I never got to endgame, and I was fine with that.

I think I look back on them fondly because when you got your item, it was "worth" something. When I first got my utsusemi scroll I was beside myself. I was actually a Ninja.
The same goes with AF...

Now this all may be nostalgic gobbledygook, but I think I'd rather have stuff like this (especially if they tweak it for solo play) than not.
#45 Nov 15 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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My question is though, And i may make a thread about this. But When did mmorpg be all about content then the community?
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#46 Nov 15 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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My question is though, And i may make a thread about this. But When did mmorpg be all about content then the community?


When mmorpgs started being games and not just 3d chat rooms.

Some games are more content-dependent than others.. but you won't get anywhere without it. Sandbox MMO's are not good.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#47 Nov 15 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
My question is though, And i may make a thread about this. But When did mmorpg be all about content then the community?


When mmorpgs started being games and not just 3d chat rooms.

Some games are more content-dependent than others.. but you won't get anywhere without it. Sandbox MMO's are not good.


Not true at all of sandbox mmos as a whole, just the current crop. It's just that many developers who claim to be making sandbox games fail to realize you have to put some toys (content) in the sandbox, or people just leave after they realize all they're doing is getting dirty while being bored.

Look at singleplayer sandbox games, like Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc. You could do whatever you wanted, go wherever you wanted, but at the same time you could also do the structured content to add variety and a sense of purpose.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 12:02am by Zorvan
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#48 Nov 15 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Not true at all of sandbox mmos as a whole, just the current crop.


Yes yes, this is always the argument. "It's just the current sandbox MMO's, it doesn't have to be this way!"

BS, I say.

It is just some utopistic dream that won't come true by people who don't understand game, and especially MMO development but have these great ideas and dreams about being a game designer.

Single player "sandbox" games are like themepark MMO's. Coincidence? I think not.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#49 Nov 15 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Not true at all of sandbox mmos as a whole, just the current crop.


Yes yes, this is always the argument. "It's just the current sandbox MMO's, it doesn't have to be this way!"

BS, I say.

It is just some utopistic dream that won't come true by people who don't understand game, and especially MMO development but have these great ideas and dreams about being a game designer.

Single player "sandbox" games are like themepark MMO's. Coincidence? I think not.


lol

How the **** do you figure that? Try going out of the first area in a themepark mmo at level one and not getting your *** stomped by the first level l0 wolf you encounter.
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#50 Nov 16 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:
You people are like loud unhappy fat ppl at mcdonalds, you'll never leave and you just sit there yelling at employees and trying to get other customers to share in your enthusiasm yet you never pull your head out of your ****** enough to notice the suggestion box


Really? Zam has ALWAYS been a premiere site for SE - **** the system messages in XI still reference ZAM (I believe the pumpkin carving contest was the latest), so why are you acting like this isn't the appropriate venue for communicating our thoughts to SE? I'll grant that some of the complaints are duplicated sufficiently as to have gotten the message across and further iteration just grates on one's nerves... But to act like this isn't the appropriate place to voice said concerns is naivety at its best.


this site is the appropriate place, yes. but not threads about being optimistic. its like any time anyone tries to have a pleasant conversation about this game along come tens of haters. yes, they feel that it is a fanboy thread and they have to put in there two cents but its annoying to see people just constantly complaining and sometimes blowing it way out of proportion.

isn't that why we have: http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173
if people want to constructively complain, that is the place, no? or is it in threads with the subject "Becoming Optimistic Again"?
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#51 Nov 16 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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TempLoop wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Quote:
You people are like loud unhappy fat ppl at mcdonalds, you'll never leave and you just sit there yelling at employees and trying to get other customers to share in your enthusiasm yet you never pull your head out of your ****** enough to notice the suggestion box


Really? Zam has ALWAYS been a premiere site for SE - **** the system messages in XI still reference ZAM (I believe the pumpkin carving contest was the latest), so why are you acting like this isn't the appropriate venue for communicating our thoughts to SE? I'll grant that some of the complaints are duplicated sufficiently as to have gotten the message across and further iteration just grates on one's nerves... But to act like this isn't the appropriate place to voice said concerns is naivety at its best.


this site is the appropriate place, yes. but not threads about being optimistic. its like any time anyone tries to have a pleasant conversation about this game along come tens of haters. yes, they feel that it is a fanboy thread and they have to put in there two cents but its annoying to see people just constantly complaining and sometimes blowing it way out of proportion.

isn't that why we have: http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173
if people want to constructively complain, that is the place, no? or is it in threads with the subject "Becoming Optimistic Again"?


Unfortunately it doesn't happen like that. The people who troll the positive threads and don't allow them to remain positive also believe SE is some evil empire company that doesn't actually read feedback forums. So they feel their feedback will only be read in General.
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