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EDITORIAL: Did the extended free trial hurt FFXIV?Follow

#52 Nov 16 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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No, I had actually cancelled my account before the first free month was up. Giving me extended playing time of a game I didn't want to play did not help or hurt my decision. I was already going to quit, it did make me think about putzing around online for awhile but it wasn't enough of an incentive for me.

Edit: That being said, I am not washing my hands of the game. I will probably be back around for PS3 release to see what changes they have made (or if I see postings on this board that say OMG TEH PATCHES ARE AWESUMMM1!!!!1)

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 8:52am by OMGItsABear
#53 Nov 16 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
BartelX wrote:
I love getting rated down to default for expressing an opinion. I think I'll just go back to being an @#%^ on the forums. It's a lot more fun that way, and since I'm getting rated down regardless, why the **** not. Rate downs for all!


So your post gets rated down twice, then up four times to Good, and now you've gone and rate camped the entire thread. How mature of you. I'll give you a rate down too, just for throwing a tantrum over two rates.


I suppose that's what I get for posting at 3 am after working on a computer for 12 straight hours. Sorry, just been frustrated lately at the karma system because I wish people were forced to give a reason as to WHY they are rating someone down. I apologize for the rate-downs to others, I'll try and make it up when I can. Just a bad day.
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#54 Nov 16 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default
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There is a new free trial extention how does that change this thread? Should be pretty positive direction i suspect.
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#55 Nov 16 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Wow, great timing on SE's announcement! I couldn't believe my eyes when I checked my phone at the coffee shop and saw that another free trial extension was granted!

That said, I think this time will be different, because the free trial will occur during the same period of time as significant improvements to the game. If these changes really start fixing things, hopefully discussions will reflect that. We'll see.

This is getting interesting!
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#56 Nov 16 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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The tenor of your article is one of assigning blame. That doesn't fall in line with the spirit you're trying to foster in the community.

Thayos wrote:
Fewer productive and insightful threads have been appearing in the forums. The number of rant threads spiked.
Recently the admins have done a nice job of channeling the discussion to more productive areas by starting some good threads. I'd like to say thanks and kudos. However, you've written one of the latter types of threads. Though instead of FFXIV being the focus you've targeted the community.

Many vocal critics of XIV have high post counts, brightly colored names, and well written posts. They are the people who would be writing the productive and insightful threads you'd like to see, were it an appropriate time to be writing them. There has been a lot of flaming recently but Pikko already created a [long] thread addressing that.

Quote:
Having a positive, tight-knit community means people will be happier while playing their game. Happy customers create a more positive buzz, which brings in new subscribers, which creates an environment in which the professional reviewers might highlight the good instead of the bad.
Your assertion is that by not extending the free 30 days, most of the unhappy players would have quit. This raises the "happiness quotient", thus bringing in more subs.

Like others, I think you've drawn conclusions about causality between the attitude of the community and the success of the game that aren't valid. In addition, your timeline is out of whack. The cycle you described may have worked had the game launched complete and then the reviewers had waited several months for this community to form and the proper environment for criticism to develop. But that didn't happen. The reviewers were equally responsible for setting the tone as was the community, and this happened before the trial extension.

While the 30 day extension wasn't a huge success, it didn't hurt. I too rather like the idea of another free trial period once the game is fully updated for the PS3 launch.


edit: well I guess there was an extension while I was typing! Another tacit acknowledgment of SE's culpability in this debacle. I think it was a wise move.


Edited, Nov 16th 2010 11:35am by CatPredator
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#57 Nov 16 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Wow, great timing on SE's announcement! I couldn't believe my eyes when I checked my phone at the coffee shop and saw that another free trial extension was granted!

That said, I think this time will be different, because the free trial will occur during the same period of time as significant improvements to the game. If these changes really start fixing things, hopefully discussions will reflect that. We'll see.

This is getting interesting!


It's either going to go one of two ways. Either they have some awesome changes in store and they're giving us the opportunity to see them (hoping for this) or the changes will be lackluster and just further convince people to abandon the game (hoping against this).
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#58 Nov 16 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Wow, great timing on SE's announcement! I couldn't believe my eyes when I checked my phone at the coffee shop and saw that another free trial extension was granted!

That said, I think this time will be different, because the free trial will occur during the same period of time as significant improvements to the game. If these changes really start fixing things, hopefully discussions will reflect that. We'll see.

This is getting interesting!


I couldn't agree more. This will give people that are wanting to quit a chance to experience the changes and then make a decision. I assume those that already quit will come back for another month.
#59 Nov 16 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Geffe the Meaningless wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Wow, great timing on SE's announcement! I couldn't believe my eyes when I checked my phone at the coffee shop and saw that another free trial extension was granted!

That said, I think this time will be different, because the free trial will occur during the same period of time as significant improvements to the game. If these changes really start fixing things, hopefully discussions will reflect that. We'll see.

This is getting interesting!


I couldn't agree more. This will give people that are wanting to quit a chance to experience the changes and then make a decision. I assume those that already quit will come back for another month.



You assume correctly, that is to say, once I see the actual patch in action.

I hope the patch is as substantial as they say it is and hope SE keeps up this momentum.

But my re-subbing is reliant on the fixes not a free month.

I am more than willing to pay for what I deem to be a good game, a free month won't change that if the game still isn't up to my standards.
#60thehellfire, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 10:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I completely agree, just look over at Eorzeapedia, their mods and admins have been indeed poisoned by the haters. Everything they post anymore is negative and anti-XIV. **** their admins had to post an OP-Ed that blasted this article, proof for your argumant.
#61 Nov 16 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos
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#62 Nov 16 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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I think the extension was a good idea. Sure some people would see that as kind of a deadline to fix everything, but wouldn't they have done that anyway? At last now the deadline has moved.

There are certainly people who hang around just to gripe. But there is a larger majority of people who want to like the game but just don't see enough there that's worth paying for. The fear that I have, and that I think SE shares, is that once they start charging monthly all those people on the edge are going to drop. That's definitely the position I'm in.

Extending the free trial gives SE more time to win over the people who are on the fence before they move on to another game.
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#63 Nov 16 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since I canceled my acct before the first free month was up, getting an extra month was a moot point for me. If I didn't want to stick around when it was free, more free time wasn't enough to make me come back. For the people who were sticking it out in hopes of fixes, or those who truly liked the game as is, I guess it's a good deal.


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#64 Nov 16 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Seems to me someone is just looking for something to write about to meet some "editorial quota" for the website.

It is beyond obvious that SE needs folks to stick around until the updates start to roll out. It is no coincidence that this free trial extension was announced days after the email about the free trial ending went out. They probably got so many cancelations they were forced to give another free month. If they had planned on doing this before the email went out, why even bother sending out the email in the first place?

It will be nearly impossible to get folks to come back if they leave, and SE knows this. Once the cancelations starting pouring in, they had no choice bu to extend the free period.
#65 Nov 16 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Eh, I dunno Aurelius. On the one hand you say SE has the least consolable playerbase, but do you honestly not think they have one of the most loyal playerbases? And if they don't, do you honestly feel that they haven't earned that corruption of trust, game after game?


There's a fine line between loyal and not having the mental fortitude to walk away. When you question someone's approach or decisions or you have concerns about where they're headed but you go with them anyways, that's loyal. When you have no real faith in them and see everything about them in a negative light regardless of how hard they might try to please you, that's being a chump.

There are a lot of people loyal to SE around here. There are also a ton of chumps. The people who are loyal are the ones who gave the game a shot, didn't really like it, voiced their opinions and then faded into the background or left altogether. They're the ones who appreciate the trial extension(s) and see it as a conciliatory gesture on SE's part. They're the ones who are trying to be objective and focus on the things they do enjoy about the game.

The chumps are still here trolling and heckling and seizing any opportunity to belittle SE and the people who support them. They're the ones who never even bought the game but are still here heckling because it's fun to be part of the cynical crowd. They're the ones who bought the game, quit 5 weeks ago, and are still here repeating the same tired old drivel they were spouting 3 days after CE launch. They're the ones who are playing the game on a buddy pass, haven't paid SE a ******* thing for the product, and meander around spouting off like SE stole their kidney. They're the ones who see a release from SE listing all the changes on deck for the near future and immediately denounce them as lies, manipulation, yadda yadda machine rage 90s angst redux crap. I could go on and on, but I think that demonstrates it clearly enough. Cynicism and unhealthy attachment are not loyalty.

Cute trend going on lately...instead of just flame trolling, the newest thing is to just derail positive threads and fall back on a passive aggressive approach to forcing the admins to lock threads. How in the **** we still have negative QQ threads popping up but a, "Why I am still playing" thread degrades into a derailed flame war and is subsequently locked I have no idea. If we're not supposed to flame and we're not supposed to karma bomb, then we can just squash game-related conversation by turning this into the OOT and the more controversial the derail topic, the better chances of heated debate degrading to flaming leading to locked threads and we still get to disrupt the general forums but now instead of doing it overtly we're being sneaky.

Delicious.

I'd say it was the work of people who have nothing to contribute but lack the testicular reinforcement to move on with their lives, but I could be off on that one.

Just like anyone who would see a free trial extension as further justification to hate SE.
#66 Nov 16 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos


Interesting part is Eorzeapedia (or at least their writer "Gahoo") apparently defines anyone who doesn't currently love the game as trolls:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/11/16/did-the-extended-free-trial-hurt-ffxiv-answer-no/#more-5996

Quote:
Addendum: After I wrote the above (but before I had posted it obviously) SE extended the free trial for another 30-days. With 90 days of free play being provided, what can we as a community do in the meantime? Square Enix does read our forums. So use them and continue to provide constructive feedback. We can see that the feedback is making its way into the game. Also, don’t let trolls ruin the community or your play experience. There are thousands of players who are enjoying the game and enjoying the community. They may not always be the most vocal, but nobody should feel like they are alone in their enjoyment of the game.
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#67 Nov 16 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I pretty aptly summarized why people are going to come here and complain (be "chumps" as you say) just a moment ago in another thread. So here's copypasta:

The people who frequent this forum in particular come here to talk about the game. That's all... just talk about the game. When there are good things to say about the game, they say good things. When there are bad things to say, they say bad things. But this is the game that they want to talk about even if they no longer want to play it.

People still engage in lengthy discussion about their favorite FF, which they hated, which was overrated, underrated, dissecting the game elements, plot, etc. For many people, it's fun! Imagine that, talking to other people about video games, fun! Even talking about why you don't like the game... and for the most part people will accept this. Occasionally there will be a person who just doesn't get it to chime in, "If you don't like it, don't play it." And sometimes these discussions turn into absurd arguments, and in those cases the perspective may be warranted.

The point is, until our generation is dead and possibly long after, people will always talk about Final Fantasy games whether they like them or not, the same way people talk about literature, cinema, and music, long after its relevance and without even having any desire to consume it.

Quote:
How in the **** we still have negative QQ threads popping up but a, "Why I am still playing" thread degrades into a derailed flame war and is subsequently locked I have no idea.


That would be because I answered some questions about recreation psychology that were on-topic and addressed to me, and a certain poster started QQing that I was educating others because it made their brain hurt.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#68 Nov 16 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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Solution? Find a good LS containing people that don't ***** about the game (whether they like it or not) and a dedicated website as an aid to sharing strategy with other members when not in-game.

...that being said, Abaddon is recruiting ;P

I only see this side of the community when I come to this site and ffxivcore. Just food for thought.
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#69 Nov 16 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
I think I pretty aptly summarized why people are going to come here and complain (be "chumps" as you say) just a moment ago in another thread.


It doesn't matter. This thread is about people who turned even something as simple and appropriate as a free trial extension into a justification to bash on SE that much more. Complaining here does nothing. From the header of the Feedback and Suggestions forums:

Quote:
FFXIV Feedback Forum: Use this forum for specific feedback and suggestions to the developer, not the players. This forum will be monitored by the game developers. To keep out general discussion and keep the true feedback from scrolling too quickly, it will be more heavily moderated than our other forums.


But it still makes sense to hate on SE here because the General forums are where they go to find out what people are saying about the game?

"I hate Ronald McDonald. He made me fat. I hate him so much for making me fat, I'm going to sue him. Right after this double quarter pounder with cheese..."

"I hate SE. The only reason I stayed with FFXI was for the community. I was looking forward to this game and they let me down. Now I hate them forever and will never buy another one of their products. I'll never have anything to do with SE ever again. But I'm going to troll the community here for the next six months because it's fun."

Quote:
That would be because I answered some questions about recreation psychology that were on-topic and addressed to me, and a certain poster started QQing that I was educating others because it made their brain hurt.


And the GOP. And. And. And. Everything is a pompous OT diatribe with you lately. Do you think that's helping with things around here? If it's not related to XIV, it belongs elsewhere, regardless of who asked what under what circumstances. And when you take your OT dissertations and contribute to their degradation into a flame war that results in a locked thread that started out as something positive about the game, you're making yourself a blight on the community. You might want to stop defending your right to be a wart and start asking yourself just what it is you think you're accomplishing.
#70 Nov 16 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

And the GOP. And. And. And. Everything is a pompous OT diatribe with you lately. Do you think that's helping with things around here? If it's not related to XIV, it belongs elsewhere, regardless of who asked what under what circumstances. And when you take your OT dissertations and contribute to their degradation into a flame war that results in a locked thread that started out as something positive about the game, you're making yourself a blight on the community. You might want to stop defending your right to be a wart and start asking yourself just what it is you think you're accomplishing.


That was another thread, and I apologized for the OT. Takes two and all that, also.

Look, you're in no position to criticize. All of your posts lately are whiny, rude rants. This is a GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM, and I am generally discussing the game.

I would love to stay and rip you a new one for being a hypocritical, trollish ***, but I have to go. If you still want to dance when I get back, save me a spot on your card. I'll be happy to show you how little respect I have for you and the swill you proudly pass off as forum contributions.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 1:39pm by Kachi
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Nov 16 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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By extending another month of free play I can now take what I was going to pay to buy more beer!

Thank you for supporting my alcohol addiction SE! \(^^)/

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 3:43pm by LyleVertigo
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#72Aurelius, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 3:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You know why we fight so much? Because we're so similar. Problem is, I'm usually right, and you're not. Bainao.
#73thehellfire, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 3:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yet Gahoo will troll against XIV..... **** he even bans ardent supporters. Eorzeapedia has become a joke.
#74 Nov 16 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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thehellfire wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos


Interesting part is Eorzeapedia (or at least their writer "Gahoo") apparently defines anyone who doesn't currently love the game as trolls:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/11/16/did-the-extended-free-trial-hurt-ffxiv-answer-no/#more-5996

Quote:
Addendum: After I wrote the above (but before I had posted it obviously) SE extended the free trial for another 30-days. With 90 days of free play being provided, what can we as a community do in the meantime? Square Enix does read our forums. So use them and continue to provide constructive feedback. We can see that the feedback is making its way into the game. Also, don’t let trolls ruin the community or your play experience. There are thousands of players who are enjoying the game and enjoying the community. They may not always be the most vocal, but nobody should feel like they are alone in their enjoyment of the game.

Yet Gahoo will troll against XIV..... **** he even bans ardent supporters. Eorzeapedia has become a joke.



Does trolling trolls make a troll baby?

Edit: Now it is trolling trolls for trolling trolls. /explode

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 3:59pm by LyleVertigo
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#75 Nov 16 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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thehellfire wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos


Interesting part is Eorzeapedia (or at least their writer "Gahoo") apparently defines anyone who doesn't currently love the game as trolls:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/11/16/did-the-extended-free-trial-hurt-ffxiv-answer-no/#more-5996

Quote:
Addendum: After I wrote the above (but before I had posted it obviously) SE extended the free trial for another 30-days. With 90 days of free play being provided, what can we as a community do in the meantime? Square Enix does read our forums. So use them and continue to provide constructive feedback. We can see that the feedback is making its way into the game. Also, don’t let trolls ruin the community or your play experience. There are thousands of players who are enjoying the game and enjoying the community. They may not always be the most vocal, but nobody should feel like they are alone in their enjoyment of the game.

Yet Gahoo will troll against XIV..... **** he even bans ardent supporters. Eorzeapedia has become a joke.


Except thats not at all what he is saying. He is saying don't let the trolls ruin the game. There are a lot of trolls running about the forums trying to ruin the game. He never once said "You people who love the game are right! Only trolls hate the game!"
#76 Nov 16 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Wloire wrote:
thehellfire wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos


Interesting part is Eorzeapedia (or at least their writer "Gahoo") apparently defines anyone who doesn't currently love the game as trolls:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/11/16/did-the-extended-free-trial-hurt-ffxiv-answer-no/#more-5996

Quote:
Addendum: After I wrote the above (but before I had posted it obviously) SE extended the free trial for another 30-days. With 90 days of free play being provided, what can we as a community do in the meantime? Square Enix does read our forums. So use them and continue to provide constructive feedback. We can see that the feedback is making its way into the game. Also, don’t let trolls ruin the community or your play experience. There are thousands of players who are enjoying the game and enjoying the community. They may not always be the most vocal, but nobody should feel like they are alone in their enjoyment of the game.

Yet Gahoo will troll against XIV..... **** he even bans ardent supporters. Eorzeapedia has become a joke.


Except thats not at all what he is saying. He is saying don't let the trolls ruin the game. There are a lot of trolls running about the forums trying to ruin the game. He never once said "You people who love the game are right! Only trolls hate the game!"


Let's see: he mentions "trolls" and he mentions those "who enjoy the game and the community", I see no mention of a third set of people. So therefore, yes, that is what he is saying.
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#77 Nov 16 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Using ZAM as the pulse of the FFXI community was about the silliest mistake you could make. I would say the same of FFXIV, except:

1.) Community
2.) ZAM has the most well-designed FFXIV database I can find on the web today, next to YG.

So I guess I'll take my 30 days and you can waste another 2 seconds on the last line of this post.
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#78Taemek, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 4:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) [i][b][u]And how many times have you seen this response: “If you hate the game that much, then why are you still here?”
#79 Nov 16 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
Wloire wrote:
thehellfire wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Interesting that Eorzpedia is writing on this topic too, even if it is an opposing stance. Heck, this editorial is just my opinion, and just one of thousands. Everyone wins when topics like this are questioned from different viewpoints. I'll have to check out their article later.

Edit: Read their response, and thought it was very fair and classy. I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time. This second free trial should be different because of the November update. However, SE would have been better off announcing a two-month free trial extension a month ago when the first extension was announced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:13am by Thayos


Interesting part is Eorzeapedia (or at least their writer "Gahoo") apparently defines anyone who doesn't currently love the game as trolls:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/11/16/did-the-extended-free-trial-hurt-ffxiv-answer-no/#more-5996

Quote:
Addendum: After I wrote the above (but before I had posted it obviously) SE extended the free trial for another 30-days. With 90 days of free play being provided, what can we as a community do in the meantime? Square Enix does read our forums. So use them and continue to provide constructive feedback. We can see that the feedback is making its way into the game. Also, don’t let trolls ruin the community or your play experience. There are thousands of players who are enjoying the game and enjoying the community. They may not always be the most vocal, but nobody should feel like they are alone in their enjoyment of the game.

Yet Gahoo will troll against XIV..... **** he even bans ardent supporters. Eorzeapedia has become a joke.


Except thats not at all what he is saying. He is saying don't let the trolls ruin the game. There are a lot of trolls running about the forums trying to ruin the game. He never once said "You people who love the game are right! Only trolls hate the game!"


Let's see: he mentions "trolls" and he mentions those "who enjoy the game and the community", I see no mention of a third set of people. So therefore, yes, that is what he is saying.


Zorvan as always your understanding of how implications work is lacking. He does not need to mention the people who dislike the game who are not trolls, it would break up the flow of his paragraph for one and it would be a detriment to his point. Have you ever written an essay? You are rarely supposed to supply a counter argument to your thesis. Same applies for his editorial.

He is saying don't let the trolls (who you would agree exist), ruin your gameplay if you are having fun. He is not saying everyone who dislikes the game is a troll. He never said that. He never implied that. It. Is. Not. What. He. Is. Saying.
#80 Nov 16 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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205 posts
Is it odd that this editorial came out like...the day before ANOTHER extension was given?

Well...if the free trial hurt FFXIV then SE likes the way it burns.
#81 Nov 16 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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551 posts
Taemek wrote:
And how many times have you seen this response: “If you hate the game that much, then why are you still here?”

The answer, of course, is because Square Enix is letting them play for free.

Final Fantasy XIV would have lost some subscribers had Square Enix not extended the free trial period. However, wouldn’t those cancellations have come from the people who dislike the game the most? Aren’t those the people who are most responsible for the hostile, unstable attitude that has permeated the forums? And what would the state of the game’s online community be like if those people had been gone for the past three weeks?


This, QFT.

SE need to come to terms that no matter what they do, certain individuals now are only hanging around because it is free to play.

SE need to cut thier losses with these types of players and move onto keeping the ones they got who are happy about the up and coming changes and also the ones who are still actively playing.

Worst case sceanrio, cut thier bad players who do not contribute to the game at all and merge a few servers together to bump those populations up a tad to be on par with the more populated ones.

I agree 100% with your editorial, if you give humanity and inch, they will take a mile.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 5:13pm by Taemek


Could it possibly be that they looked at how many cancellations there were and realized there were FAR more leaving (those unhappy) than were staying (those happy and/or "loyal") and then realized they couldn't justify the expense of the game solely on the numbers that would remain, therefore it was imperative to hold on to those "unhappy" players for another month in order to attempt to make them "happy" players via the updates?
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#82 Nov 16 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
I think we all know what needs to be done.

Thayos needs to write an editorial about how an AH will hurt FFXIV and we'll get one in two days.
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#83 Nov 16 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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205 posts
^ oh my gosh you are right!

Can we have an Editorial on why Summoners are bad? I really want a summoning class...
#84 Nov 16 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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551 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I think we all know what needs to be done.

Thayos needs to write an editorial about how an AH will hurt FFXIV and we'll get one in two days.


I say it's **** well worth a shot. Get cracking, Thayos!
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#85 Nov 16 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
NOT having a free trail extention would have hurt FFXIV more.


Who in their right mind was gonna stick around and pay for an unfinished game month after month?
#86Taemek, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 4:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your problem is you assume to know real figures, when you don't know any, at all, period.
#87 Nov 16 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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137 posts
Is the free month a tranquilizer to promise that will not be met in November? Or is the free month a prevention of population crash?

I would love to see the subscription numbers. I know we’ll never get to see it but I think this is a key reason for the free month. Server population is very low. Basing the percentage on polls and threads started here it look like a 20% drop in population had they not extended the free month. With servers hovering around 800 plus on weekdays, a 20% decrease would have the average at 600+. Imaging that.

So extending the free play I would say helped the game more then charging. I think they should just make it free till March personaly.
#88 Nov 16 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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278 posts
Taemek wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Taemek wrote:
And how many times have you seen this response: “If you hate the game that much, then why are you still here?”

The answer, of course, is because Square Enix is letting them play for free.

Final Fantasy XIV would have lost some subscribers had Square Enix not extended the free trial period. However, wouldn’t those cancellations have come from the people who dislike the game the most? Aren’t those the people who are most responsible for the hostile, unstable attitude that has permeated the forums? And what would the state of the game’s online community be like if those people had been gone for the past three weeks?


This, QFT.

SE need to come to terms that no matter what they do, certain individuals now are only hanging around because it is free to play.

SE need to cut thier losses with these types of players and move onto keeping the ones they got who are happy about the up and coming changes and also the ones who are still actively playing.

Worst case sceanrio, cut thier bad players who do not contribute to the game at all and merge a few servers together to bump those populations up a tad to be on par with the more populated ones.

I agree 100% with your editorial, if you give humanity and inch, they will take a mile.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 5:13pm by Taemek


Could it possibly be that they looked at how many cancellations there were and realized there were FAR more leaving (those unhappy) than were staying (those happy and/or "loyal") and then realized they couldn't justify the expense of the game solely on the numbers that would remain, therefore it was imperative to hold on to those "unhappy" players for another month in order to attempt to make them "happy" players via the updates?


Your problem is you assume to know real figures, when you don't know any, at all, period.

Your problem is you assume to know SE's profit margins, when you don't, at all, period.

Your problem is that you have no idea that a game could have a subcriber base as small as 30k people and still make a profit, but you can't seem to grasp that, at all, period.

Would it be safe to assume that considering the information we know, they sold 630k copies of the game and lets say 50% of those have stopped playing, the ones who remain and play OR are interested in helping the game progress by sticking around and giving solid, factual and rational feedback could easily carry this game forward into the future until March PS3 release hits which will then inject the community with more fan based orientated people and drown out the nay-sayers, trolls and haters? Yes, very very likely.

I don't think it's naive to assume there is roughly 200k people playing the game who enjoy it imho. People need to learn that SE's immediate market exsists on the Console platform, not the PC so obviously, sales are going to look bad for the PC version because FF on the PC doesn't have a massive following, however, on the PS3, millions upon millions of untapped potential that have yet to be injected into this community. You will also find that console players are more content with a product because once you buy it, you own it, there is no forums or channels to cry a river on because you hate the current game play, you ethier like it or you don't and walk away from it. PC gamers on the other hand are more likely to vent, cry, whine, create destructive posts claiming they have real numbers, facts and truths when honestly, they have zip, nada, nought, a big fat whopping ZERO, they have nothing.

People in general need to learn to like a product for what it is, not what you want to make it. Yes, before you take this out of context because your so good at it, the fundamentals for this game are here, the updates are not changing the fundamentals of the game that it has been designed upon. I see alot of peoples problems with the game is the fundamentals and foundation of which it has be designed on and thats not going to change, so you are ethier going to like the game after the updates OR you won't like it and you will have no other choice but too move on as no amount of whining and complaining will help you after the next 30 days free has expired.

I'd like to suggest that people over the next few weeks take a long hard look at what aspects of the game they don't like and refer to the patch notes up and coming and try to read between the vague lines they have given in terms of what is changing and how it will effect you as players here in the world of Erozea, because it just might happen that you could be one of those players who just don't like the basic fundamentals or foundation upon which this game has been set and if thats the case, you won't like the game in 6 months or 6 years.


What were you thinking being all logical? You're going to get flamed to ****.

If I could make an educated guess I'd put the people who stay at the 70-100k region though. About 3-4 thousand subs per server.
#89 Nov 16 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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169 posts
doubleax wrote:
Is the free month a tranquilizer to promise that will not be met in November? Or is the free month a prevention of population crash?

I would love to see the subscription numbers. I know we’ll never get to see it but I think this is a key reason for the free month. Server population is very low. Basing the percentage on polls and threads started here it look like a 20% drop in population had they not extended the free month. With servers hovering around 800 plus on weekdays, a 20% decrease would have the average at 600+. Imaging that.

So extending the free play I would say helped the game more then charging. I think they should just make it free till March personaly.


The extension (again) is simply so people can test the waters with the new updates, period. Nothing else.
#90 Nov 16 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
551 posts
Taemek wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Taemek wrote:
And how many times have you seen this response: “If you hate the game that much, then why are you still here?”

The answer, of course, is because Square Enix is letting them play for free.

Final Fantasy XIV would have lost some subscribers had Square Enix not extended the free trial period. However, wouldn’t those cancellations have come from the people who dislike the game the most? Aren’t those the people who are most responsible for the hostile, unstable attitude that has permeated the forums? And what would the state of the game’s online community be like if those people had been gone for the past three weeks?


This, QFT.

SE need to come to terms that no matter what they do, certain individuals now are only hanging around because it is free to play.

SE need to cut thier losses with these types of players and move onto keeping the ones they got who are happy about the up and coming changes and also the ones who are still actively playing.

Worst case sceanrio, cut thier bad players who do not contribute to the game at all and merge a few servers together to bump those populations up a tad to be on par with the more populated ones.

I agree 100% with your editorial, if you give humanity and inch, they will take a mile.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 5:13pm by Taemek


Could it possibly be that they looked at how many cancellations there were and realized there were FAR more leaving (those unhappy) than were staying (those happy and/or "loyal") and then realized they couldn't justify the expense of the game solely on the numbers that would remain, therefore it was imperative to hold on to those "unhappy" players for another month in order to attempt to make them "happy" players via the updates?


Your problem is you assume to know real figures, when you don't know any, at all, period.

Wrong. I assume nothing. Which is why I started with "Could it possibly be....?".

Your problem is you assume to know SE's profit margins, when you don't, at all, period.

Wrong. I don't know their total profit margins, but I can read financial reports pretty **** well.

Your problem is that you have no idea that a game could have a subcriber base as small as 30k people and still make a profit, but you can't seem to grasp that, at all, period.

Wrong. I know a game can survive on 30k or less subs. Anarchy Online makes it with less than 20k total players, both free and subbed. But that's after ten years and very minimal ongoing development. A newly released multi-million dollar game cannot succeed with those numbers.

Would it be safe to assume that considering the information we know, they sold 630k copies of the game

Wrong. They shipped 630k copies to retailers.

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#91 Nov 16 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
*
137 posts
Taemek wrote:
doubleax wrote:
Is the free month a tranquilizer to promise that will not be met in November? Or is the free month a prevention of population crash?

I would love to see the subscription numbers. I know we’ll never get to see it but I think this is a key reason for the free month. Server population is very low. Basing the percentage on polls and threads started here it look like a 20% drop in population had they not extended the free month. With servers hovering around 800 plus on weekdays, a 20% decrease would have the average at 600+. Imaging that.

So extending the free play I would say helped the game more then charging. I think they should just make it free till March personaly.


The extension (again) is simply so people can test the waters with the new updates, period. Nothing else.


Nothing else but to test the water...yea keep telling yourself that. Letting people try new changes for free is just the tip of the iceberg. That's the only part we can see but there is a continent size ice shelf just below the water that SE is trying to hide with the extension.
#92 Nov 16 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Default
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169 posts
Zorvan wrote:

Wrong. They shipped 630k copies to retailers.



You have proof obviously?

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:08pm by Taemek
#93 Nov 16 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
*
169 posts
doubleax wrote:
Taemek wrote:
doubleax wrote:
Is the free month a tranquilizer to promise that will not be met in November? Or is the free month a prevention of population crash?

I would love to see the subscription numbers. I know we’ll never get to see it but I think this is a key reason for the free month. Server population is very low. Basing the percentage on polls and threads started here it look like a 20% drop in population had they not extended the free month. With servers hovering around 800 plus on weekdays, a 20% decrease would have the average at 600+. Imaging that.

So extending the free play I would say helped the game more then charging. I think they should just make it free till March personaly.


The extension (again) is simply so people can test the waters with the new updates, period. Nothing else.


Nothing else but to test the water...yea keep telling yourself that. Letting people try new changes for free is just the tip of the iceberg. That's the only part we can see but there is a continent size ice shelf just below the water that SE is trying to hide with the extension.


Ok.......0.o, and it would be what exactly?
#94 Nov 16 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
551 posts
Taemek wrote:



You have proof obviously?


Square Enix Ships 630,000 FFXIV Copies, Working On 'Regaining Trust'

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31364/Square_Enix_Ships_630000_FFXIV_Copies_Working_On_Regaining_Trust.php

Square Enix Ships 630,000 FFXIV Units, Working to Address Problems and Regain Trust

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/91620

Square Enix Rushing to Fix Final Fantasy XIV
PC version ships 630,000 units. PS3 version still on track for March.

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/11/04/wada_on_ffxiv/



Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:14pm by Zorvan
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#95 Nov 16 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
*
137 posts
Taemek wrote:
doubleax wrote:
Taemek wrote:
doubleax wrote:
Is the free month a tranquilizer to promise that will not be met in November? Or is the free month a prevention of population crash?

I would love to see the subscription numbers. I know we’ll never get to see it but I think this is a key reason for the free month. Server population is very low. Basing the percentage on polls and threads started here it look like a 20% drop in population had they not extended the free month. With servers hovering around 800 plus on weekdays, a 20% decrease would have the average at 600+. Imaging that.

So extending the free play I would say helped the game more then charging. I think they should just make it free till March personaly.


The extension (again) is simply so people can test the waters with the new updates, period. Nothing else.


Nothing else but to test the water...yea keep telling yourself that. Letting people try new changes for free is just the tip of the iceberg. That's the only part we can see but there is a continent size ice shelf just below the water that SE is trying to hide with the extension.


Ok.......0.o, and it would be what exactly?


Let see here are just a few.
1. hoping people don't cancel on the 20th since there will be no chanrge no need to cancel and the subscription number looks good
2. population doesn't crash if 20% or greater leave on the 20th
3. So far there have been promises with schedule release date. The only way to show in good faith to customer is by extending the free month.
4. Hoping people who have cancelled but are still logging in because it is free will start to like the game and re-sub.


those are a few example. If you freaking think it just so people would test their patch you are sadly mistaken. Had that been their goal they would have just stood up test server where people can test new changes and still charge you for playing on the regular server. This free month is deeper then please test the changes.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:18pm by doubleax
#96Taemek, Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 5:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) These units have been sold......do you fail to understand that or do you think that SE hands out the copies to gaming stores saying, "Hey guys, please sell our products......"
#97 Nov 16 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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278 posts
Taemek wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Taemek wrote:



You have proof obviously?


Square Enix Ships 630,000 FFXIV Copies, Working On 'Regaining Trust'

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31364/Square_Enix_Ships_630000_FFXIV_Copies_Working_On_Regaining_Trust.php

Square Enix Ships 630,000 FFXIV Units, Working to Address Problems and Regain Trust

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/91620

Square Enix Rushing to Fix Final Fantasy XIV
PC version ships 630,000 units. PS3 version still on track for March.

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/11/04/wada_on_ffxiv/



Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:14pm by Zorvan


These units have been sold......do you fail to understand that or do you think that SE hands out the copies to gaming stores saying, "Hey guys, please sell our products......"

Again, nothing.


What Zhorvan means but is utterly failing to say is that generally retailers have a sort of insurance policy so that if 100 000 copies remain unsold after a certain amount of time they get their money back. So in a couple months time if those copies don't sell then thats money out of SE's pocket.
As such you can't really count sales until they are sold to the customer.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:32pm by Wloire
#98 Nov 16 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
*
169 posts
Are you reading what you type before hitting submit?

First off you say:

doubleax wrote:

Let see here are just a few.
1. hoping people don't cancel on the 20th since there will be no chanrge no need to cancel and the subscription number looks good
2. population doesn't crash if 20% or greater leave on the 20th
3. So far there have been promises with schedule release date. The only way to show in good faith to customer is by extending the free month.
4. Hoping people who have cancelled but are still logging in because it is free will start to like the game and re-sub.



Then you turn around and say:

doubleax wrote:
If you freaking think it just so people would test their patch you are sadly mistaken.


Thats the whole purpose of it, to attract people back to the game by allowing them to test the waters to see if they like it, did you bump your head getting out of bed this morning?



doubleax wrote:
This free month is deeper then please test the changes.


There is no hidden agenda here, your just being a paranoid delusional now, it is simply this, please test our changes before making a decision wether to bury this MMORPG in your back yard or not, it's pretty straight forward if you ask me, I don't know how you could percieve it any other way....


Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:40pm by Taemek
#99 Nov 16 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Default
*
169 posts
Wloire wrote:

What Zhorvan means but is utterly failing to say is that generally retailers have a sort of insurance policy so that if 100 000 copies remain unsold after a certain amount of time they get their money back. So in a couple months time if those copies don't sell then thats money out of SE's pocket.
As such you can't really count sales until they are sold to the customer.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:32pm by Wloire


Oh, yes I fully agree, but thats why I said that it's not naive to assume there is 200k or so people playing the game and you said maybe 100k.

People need to slow down when reading and let things sink in before having a knee jerk spasm typing eractically like an angry man possessed.
#100 Nov 16 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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100 posts
People wrote:
Speculation


This is getting hostile.
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#101 Nov 16 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Taemek wrote:
Wloire wrote:

What Zhorvan means but is utterly failing to say is that generally retailers have a sort of insurance policy so that if 100 000 copies remain unsold after a certain amount of time they get their money back. So in a couple months time if those copies don't sell then thats money out of SE's pocket.
As such you can't really count sales until they are sold to the customer.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:32pm by Wloire


Oh, yes I fully agree, but thats why I said that it's not naive to assume there is 200k or so people playing the game and you said maybe 100k.

People need to slow down when reading and let things sink in before having a knee jerk spasm typing eractically like an angry man possessed.



You seemed to imply that the 630,000 units represented people who actually sat down and created accounts.
Quote:

I don't think it's naive to assume there is roughly 200k people playing the game who enjoy it imho.


Personally, I think its naive to think that 200k people actually installed their copies of the game.
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