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EDITORIAL: Did the extended free trial hurt FFXIV?Follow

#152 Nov 17 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't believe the extended free trial hurt FFXIV but perhaps it hurt some of the fan sites. If there had been no extension, those who knew they weren't happy and weren't willing to pay for the game would have left the forums. I think many would check in from time to time to find out when they should give the game another try but the forums probably would have quieted down a good deal.

Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So, RattyBatty, the cause for people acting the way they do is not due to free will and choice, but SE's fault? Smiley: dubious

I suppose you could use the saying "Can't blame a dog for being a dog", but we're not dogs, we're evolved human beings. Being upset about something is no reason to lose one's head and regress regress into bickering children.

When someone chooses to say and/or do something, it's their responsibility and their choice to do so. And their's alone. Losing self control due to being upset about something is not a valid excuse. The way things have gone, you'd think the world had suddenly run out of food and people had to resort cannibalism to survive because really, that's how it's felt here lately.

Me, I'm plenty upset with the way SE went with developing and releasing XIV, but I would never start making nearly unintelligible rage threads/posts and resorting to personal attacks of other forum members. And I'm not just saying that as an Admin, either.

Also, what exactly do you feel you're a victim of?

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:38am by Osarion

I think there's some confusion. There seem to be times when some admins may come off as sort of equating "FFXIV IS THE STUPIIDEST GAmE N DAY WORD AD iF U LIK IT YOU NEED TO DYE IN s FIRE!1!!1!" to "I really want to like the game but I just feel it was released in an unfinished state and that doesn't fly with me." That they're both considered "Flaming and bickering" because they are both critical of the current state of the game. I personally believe there's a pretty big difference between the two statements. I tend to believe the admins probably feel the same way but, nevertheless, it can seem any sort of negative statements get lumped together. And I guess the flip side is that there may be some concern that posts like "I think this game is great and if you have problems with it then it's because your mommy and your daddy must be brother and sister so you need to get back to WOW!!" may not be considered "Flaming and bickering" because (arguably) it's a post that's supportive of the game.
At the end of the day, I believe SE is responsible for the negative/critical tone things have taken because of the condition the game was released. That doesn't mean that I believe SE is responsible for the way people express it.
#153 Nov 17 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:


Dead horse topic: when the entire community has seen an argument so many times every regular member can recite both sides of the argument from memory. This can happen pretty quickly. Restating a side of an argument that has been given several times before without adding anything new is beating the dead horse.


I see your point and understand why you feel the way you do towards dead horse topics. I'm just going to say that not everyone has been here since the beginning and for those people, these discussions are helpful. Some of us are on the fence if we are going to stay or quit. I feel as long as people aren't flaming others regardless of their opinion, there is nothing wrong with expressing our disappointment with the game. If the forum lurker who loves the game can't control themselves not to read a negative FFXIV thread, that's their own problem.

Gadhelyn wrote:

SE "forced" PC players to upgrade their computers because the immensity of the game. Gameplay, databases, graphics. If They didn't make the game as graphic-intensive as they did, I'm sure people would get online and complain about how SE failed them in not fully using current technology to make the game as pretty as possible. Now, yes, it is worrisome that they released the game as is after people spent so much on their computers (this is a dead horse topic). But they're working on it. Would you like it if your job performance from now on was called into question just because you made a mistake? Oooo, Domino's pizza gave me food poisoning once, I'm never going to trust them again.


I'm not so sure of that anymore. I think most people no matter what monster machine they currently own is that SE still doesn't know how to properly program for the PC platform. So in other words, the game requires more horsepower because SE fails at coding. Yet SE can take 4MB of VRAM and do the impossible when developing FFXI for the PS2. I'm really interested in how the PS3 version of FFXIV plays and if it has less lag than the PC version.

I think your analogy needs some tweaking. Imagine if Domino's delivered an uncooked pizza instead of one that gave you food poisoning. You'd probably assume someone was being lazy and had no pride in their job. That's how most of us feel about FFXIV. SE knew there was problems and yet they released the game unfinished. SE could of kept the open Beta and still allowed people to play and get input required to fix the game. Instead of being responsible, they released the game on false pretenses assuring us that the game was completed. It wasn't until SE got called out on it did they accept any responsibility for this disaster. If we the playerbase said nothing, very little if anything would of been fixed. SE doesn't produce games for free, this is a business. In this instance, they put profit above the value of their customers so they deserve all of the negatively directed at them. As I said in my previous posts, if the game only had a few glitches here or there, I never would of said a thing. I expected that, what I didn't expect was a game that felt like an open Beta.

I feel that SE burned a lot of bridges with FFXIV's failed launch and that feeling will carry over to their other projects. People were already disappointed with FFXIII so when FFXIV came out as an epic failure, people aren't going to have the same level of tolerance for SE's mistakes. Most friends I have used to buy SE games without a single review. People just knew the game would be worth the money. Now that level of trust has faded, things aren't as simple. As for my own job performance, if I had goofed as bad as this, I wouldn't have a job. Nobody would trust me to handle the job and even if I wasn't fired, I'd always have someone looking over my shoulder. Regardless people judge you by your past, however, it's a double-edge sword. Do well and you'll profit, fail and you'll be scorned. Let's look at the recent history of SE and you tell me they deserve more of a chance.

FFXI: A game that for years was a grind, lacked casual elements, unbalance class issues, and was held back by PS2 limitations. Luckily the game has improved in recent years despite a certain God class not being adjusted.

FFXIII: Totally feels like a rpg on rails and you can only control one character at a time. If that character dies, game over screen=fail.

FFXIV: Worst launch of a FF game in the history of the franchise. Glitches, unfinished content, hokey play control, lack of mobs/quests, and overall doesn't feel like a FF game.

This is just my recent experience with SE's vision. You'll have to pardon me why I don't seem to have any optimism left. I could literally write a book, but I decided to keep my comments brief.
#154 Nov 17 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Default
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:

SE "forced" PC players to upgrade their computers because the immensity of the game. Gameplay, databases, graphics. If They didn't make the game as graphic-intensive as they did, I'm sure people would get online and complain about how SE failed them in not fully using current technology to make the game as pretty as possible. Now, yes, it is worrisome that they released the game as is after people spent so much on their computers (this is a dead horse topic). But they're working on it. Would you like it if your job performance from now on was called into question just because you made a mistake? Oooo, Domino's pizza gave me food poisoning once, I'm never going to trust them again.


I'm not so sure of that anymore. I think most people no matter what monster machine they currently own is that SE still doesn't know how to properly program for the PC platform. So in other words, the game requires more horsepower because SE fails at coding. Yet SE can take 4MB of VRAM and do the impossible when developing FFXI for the PS2. I'm really interested in how the PS3 version of FFXIV plays and if it has less lag than the PC version.


I can 100% guarantee that people with high end LED, LCD or Plasma screens will be complianing if they are like 40+ inch in size and they try playing this game on 60+ hz's at anything above 1980 resolution sizes.

I am currently using a 40 inch LED screen atm and powering it with SLi 285's, 1980x1280 @ 100hz's, HD enabled and graphics maxed out and I get massive FPS lag in certain areas. Mainly when alot of people are around. If I tune the settings down, it comes good, but with a screen this size, looks really crappy. I am not sure if the game supports SLi or Crossfire, but for the most part, I am sure giving this/these GPU's a solid workout with this game with the screen size I am using.

PS3's GPU power is not as strong and I have noticed some games on my 55inch LED in the living room come choppy when alot of stuff is happening on the screen with my PS3, so I can't see people playing this game on massive panels with maxed out graphics on the PS3 thats for sure.
#155 Nov 17 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I still think SE shot itself in the foot by extending the free trial for one month without any promise of improvements during that time.
They had two options, give no extended free play and turn off a TON of players by requiring a monthly fee for a beta quality game, or give extended free play and at least hold onto subscribers to buy time until the version update is scheduled for release.

Neither are great options, but one is far worse than the other. It may have still hurt FFXIV, but it was vastly superior to the alternative.

Of course, if I had a say in the process, SE would be turning out weekly updates with smaller chunks of fixes rather than waiting months to release a large update.
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#156 Nov 17 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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NayliaMR wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
Oooo, Domino's pizza gave me food poisoning once, I'm never going to trust them again.


Ignoring the rest of your argument, which I mostly agree with, if a restaurant gives me food poisoning - then yes, I will never go back there.

However, I have more faith in software to continually improve over time, than in the ability of a dirty restaurant to suddenly become clean.


Haha yea I think you undermined your argument with this one, I got food poisoning from a restaurant and I have never eaten there again even tho its 2 blocks from my apt :(

Now I did upgrade my computer but I didn't look at it as upgrading just for FFXIV, but for future games as well. Actually I'm pretty glad I did now that I have Civ 5 (which would have ran ok on my old setup but runs beautifully now).

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 3:58pm by OMGItsABear
#157 Nov 17 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Taemek wrote:


I can 100% guarantee that people with high end LED, LCD or Plasma screens will be complianing if they are like 40+ inch in size and they try playing this game on 60+ hz's at anything above 1980 resolution sizes.

I am currently using a 40 inch LED screen atm and powering it with SLi 285's, 1980x1280 @ 100hz's, HD enabled and graphics maxed out and I get massive FPS lag in certain areas. Mainly when alot of people are around. If I tune the settings down, it comes good, but with a screen this size, looks really crappy. I am not sure if the game supports SLi or Crossfire, but for the most part, I am sure giving this/these GPU's a solid workout with this game with the screen size I am using.

PS3's GPU power is not as strong and I have noticed some games on my 55inch LED in the living room come choppy when alot of stuff is happening on the screen with my PS3, so I can't see people playing this game on massive panels with maxed out graphics on the PS3 thats for sure.


FYI, SE has previously announced FFXIV will run at 720p only, no 1080p option. So the frame rate is likely to run decent because of the 720p limitation. Of course the graphics won't be as nice in regard to the textures according to Tanaka. However, Tanaka does say they are trying to make the game run as smoothly as possible. Tanaka claims this won't be easily noticeable when the game is in motion though. I'm hoping that the PS3 release will help to stabilize the servers. After all by March, most if not all of the issues should be resolved.

PS3 progress report link
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1135185p1.html
#158 Nov 17 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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OMGItsABear wrote:
NayliaMR wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
Oooo, Domino's pizza gave me food poisoning once, I'm never going to trust them again.


Ignoring the rest of your argument, which I mostly agree with, if a restaurant gives me food poisoning - then yes, I will never go back there.

However, I have more faith in software to continually improve over time, than in the ability of a dirty restaurant to suddenly become clean.


Haha yea I think you undermined your argument with this one, I got food poisoning from a restaurant and I have never eaten there again even tho its 2 blocks from my apt :(


Sometimes you make good analogies, sometimes you don't. Oh well, I thought I was being clever at the time.
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#159 Nov 17 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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I almost died from eating McDonald's one time. Didn't eat there again for YEARS.

However, I see the attempt of the analogy. I know a guy who refuses to eat at any Papa John's, because one time the service was poor and the manager didn't make it right. Though I guess that's a little different too, since just because one Papa John's had poor management doesn't mean they all deserve to be banned for life.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#160 Nov 17 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos,

You bring up a very intresting opinion but IMO your wrong... I have a confession to make, I am a former Vanguard player. I belived in the hype, Up graded my computer and everything just to run it. My God I was never so dissapointed in my life! The lag, the poorly optimized graphics engine, the bugs... Oh man the Bugs... The game was rushed out and even Brad admitted to it. A shame since I found it facinating... Trust me the hate would of been here reguardless of the free time being extended or not. I don't know if you played it back in the day, but if you did the forums did mirror image the current FFXIV ones. The one saving grace this game has is it's brand recognition.

The hate you see if from the disappointment people have with the game. A MMO is an investment not just in money but with time also, a lot of time. If people aren't happy with there investment they are going to complain, end of story. I wonder tho... If FFXIV had it's own offical forums would it direct it's hate away from the fansites as much? my experience from Vanguard and other MMO's says yes it would at least calm things down a lil better here. It didn't save Vanguard but at least the anger was mostly somewhere else. Right now the Hardcore gamers will boast whenever the player count hits 500 on one of their 2 servers, THAT'S the state of the game right now

Heck, if you don't believe me go ask Pikko, she played it.



#161 Nov 18 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Eventually SE is begging for players, but actually this is a fair extra moth. Everyone who purchased collector's or standand edition on day one will falloutside the 24° november with the previus moth, basically everyone should pay to see the first patch. Since they're trying to regain customer's trust it's good, otherwise right now we'd yelling "wtf, i need to pay to see the first real patch ? No thanks"
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#162 Nov 20 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
There are thousands of gamers who are having fun playing Final Fantasy XIV. I know this because each server has anywhere from 800 to 1,200 people logged into it at any given time. However, many of those players hate the game in its current state – some of them will never enjoy the game regardless of what Square Enix does.


800 to 1,200 on each server may not be good enough to sustain SE MMO model in the long run. I beleve SE is looking at 2,400 to 3,600 at any one time for each server.

Players (on both sides), reviewers and even SE have agreed that the retail version of FFXIV is incomplete and there are some serious issues that have to be addressed, so let us agree to use that as a platform and move on with our discussion.

Ever since SE announced the 1st free trial extension and the patch items for the late Nov and early Dec patches, I thought it made no sense to extend the free trial just for it to lapse right before the 2 major patches.

How would SE be able to convince undecided players or players sitting on the fence to subscribe?

SE can have all its staff work 24-7 and rush out the planned late Nov and early Dec patches to be implemented by mid Nov in order to give undecided players a week before their free trial expires to experience the game play changes. Alternatively, SE can extend the free trial period to cover an addition month so that these players can experience the in-game changes. SE chose the latter.

It will be SE way of saying: "Yes we released the game 2 or 3 months earlier than we should have and there are some things that we are looking to rectify. We have extended the free trial period as we recognized that the game is in an 'Open Beta' stage until some of these problems get resolved and it will not be right for us to charge for an 'Open Beta' version. As a gesture of goodwill towards players who trust and keep faith in us (i.e. people who bought the retail sets), there will be no character wipes and you get to retain your characters even after the free 'Open Beta' stage ends".

Granted that there will be some who will never enjoy the game regardless of what Square Enix does, but these are a minority.

Quote:
How many times in the past few weeks have you read this in the forums: “I’m only here until the free trial period is over. I’m not going to pay any money to play this awful, embarrassing, unmitigated disaster of a game.”

And how many times have you seen this response: “If you hate the game that much, then why are you still here?”

The answer, of course, is because Square Enix is letting them play for free.


In all honestly, if someone really hates a game or do not care much for it, they will leave. It will be regardless of whether the game is free. I know I personally will not be playing a game I hate just because it is free.

So the real answer is that the majority are still around because they still care and are waiting in anticipation of the proposed changes before making a full committment.

Meanwhile, the 'General Discussion Forum' in ZAM is a venue for these people to communicate their views and express their opinions while waiting for the major patches to be implemented.

Having said that, these same people should adopt a more civil approach on the forums and aviod overly agressive, flaming and baiting behaviors. Similarly, dead-horse topics should be avoided.

I, for one, have cancelled the subscriptions on both my FFXIV accounts on 16th Oct and have avoided posting on these forums for the past 5 weeks.

Quote:
Final Fantasy XIV would have lost some subscribers had Square Enix not extended the free trial period. However, wouldn’t those cancellations have come from the people who dislike the game the most? Aren’t those the people who are most responsible for the hostile, unstable attitude that has permeated the forums? And what would the state of the game’s online community be like if those people had been gone for the past three weeks?


SE too understands that players who like the game will carry on with their subscription regardless of SE actions / inactions so they are focusing on players who dislike the game in its current state and on mass cancellation issues. SE is not wrong as it is a company and has to maximize its profit or minmize its losses.

The haters are a minority, but they have been aggressive and making the most noise.

For every hater, there are also potential legit players who are undecided or sitting on the fence, quietly waiting on the sidlines for the proposed improvements to be implemented. There are also a substaintial number of long-time SE subscribers waiting to give SE a second chance on FFXIV. I'll like to think that SE's initiative is targetted towards these potential legit players?
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