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Content over Community?Follow

#1 Nov 15 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a big mmorpg player. I played free to play, Mud, and pay to play mmorpg. Anything i find fun for one reason or another. Like, i want to play ffxiv due to the lack of auto attack (and yes ffxiv has no auto attack spaming 1 isn't auto attacking you are keying an attack) and motion capture like stuff from Avatar the movie and the game Heavy rain.


But I see alot of posts on ffxiv saying it lacks content, it lacks a carrot on a stick. I plated ffxi and never felt like I had to chase a carrot on a stick. I just log on to play with other players. If i get a level, a mission done, or a piece of rare gear, that is just icing on the cake. I've also heard ffxiv lack a community, such examples is no one who plays is tryinbg to make the wards work, they are waiting for SE to "fix" them. I've heard that no one talks outside Linkshells.

I'm wondering why lack of community isn't a bigger issue. Since playing with a community of players is (in my honest opinion) where mmorpg shine. You meet new people who share at least one thing in common and may find more. This results in making new friends.

I've tried WoW, Aion and Guild wars. The same thing. No one really talks outside guilds/legions. Infact in Aion there is no such thing as a social legion all require to be 25+. If you look for a legion under that you will be told off, rated down and infact reported on.

Where is the concern for more content over a better community coming from? I seen this more in the forum for ffxiv, then most games.

Also what is the point of an mmorpg if there is no community? To me the point of an mmo is having a strong community. Sure it does help to have fun content, but most ppl want content to solo.

anyway discuss.

Please be friendly and not insult anyone for comments, say they are stupid (using big words or small) and stay on topic.

(and no psych 101 babble please. its hard to follow and really turns into a buzz kill when people think to much about simple things.)
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#2 Nov 15 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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Both are necessary.

But content > community. This is a game first of all, not a chat room.

However, MMORPG's are bad games, with subpar gameplay. That's why there's gotta be a community to somehow separate these games from the better ones out there. Otherwise there's pretty much no reason to play them over other, better games.

You can't be successful with just one of them in place either way.
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#3 Nov 15 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI's community is built around the content in FFXI. Those random things you do are at least something to do. Most of us have been in a FFXI end game shell. This could of been either a positive or negative experience for you. Most of us have been in a salvage shell, or dynamis shell. Again positive or negative your mileage may vary. No one talks in FFXIV because there is nothing to talk about. Seriously think about. Hey Bob want to go kill some rats?


I couldn't even find a decent social shell with in the month I played FFXIV. The conversation always trended negative about the games glarring flaws, soon after that people stopped logging in. Soon after that, I stopped logging in. WoW is full of people talking outside guilds. The other's I can't speak too. Sure sometimes in WoW I wish people wouldn't talk though :P
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#4 Nov 15 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moxley wrote:
FFXI's community is built around the content in FFXI. Those random things you do are at least something to do. Most of us have been in a FFXI end game shell. This could of been either a positive or negative experience for you. Most of us have been in a salvage shell, or dynamis shell. Again positive or negative your mileage may vary. No one talks in FFXIV because there is nothing to talk about. Seriously think about. Hey Bob want to go kill some rats?


I couldn't even find a decent social shell with in the month I played FFXIV. The conversation always trended negative about the games glaring flaws, soon after that people stopped logging in. Soon after that, I stopped logging in. WoW is full of people talking outside guilds. The other's I can't speak too. Sure sometimes in WoW I wish people wouldn't talk though :P


I agree with this; the community is built and lives on the content. When there is plenty to do, there are always people who want to do it. When there is nothing to do, there is nothing to talk about. It's very difficult to base a community on the notion of grinding guildleves.

Edit: Also, you say you've played WoW and no one talks outside of Guild? Go into any city and type "/join trade". Give it about 5 minutes. I can't promise you intellectual conversation but I can at least promise you people will talk.

Worst case, just say "/2 <insert job here> is OP and needs to be nerfed" and just sit back and watch the chaos. "/2 Who is this Illidan guy?", "/2 Is it me or does Sylvanas look like a Night Elf?", "/2 Burning Crusade was such a sh*tty expansion", and "/2 Garrosh is way cooler than Thrall" or "/2 King Varian is way cooler than King Llane" seem to be pretty effective, too.

Edit2: Edit was directed at the OP, not the person I quoted.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 12:01am by Mikhalia
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#5 Nov 15 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty glad that I went into FFXIV with a good Linkshell because I have certainly heard some horror stories of the lack of community in many shells.

I imagine part of the reason I have enjoyed my experience of the game despite its issues is down to the fact that I really enjoy static party grinding with my linkshell. The time seems to fly by and because I am having fun in a social context I dont get all worked up about some of the obvious and glaring game play issues.

I also got myself into a crafting party the other evening. There were 5 of us from a variety of crafts, all around the same level who committed to crafting together, each person contributing their expertise to make components. That was quite good fun and very social.

I am going to try and do a bit more of that!
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#6 Nov 15 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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A good MMO provides content that is enriched and more exciting when played with a group, or even just being able to socialize while soloing (ie being able to chat in combat or crafting). A poor MMO game puts in a chatroom and content is poor, boring, repetitive.
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#7 Nov 15 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't get lack of content part, last night my ls try some lvl 40 lev, we nearly get our *** kick, but ti is fun as **** since we never try lvl 40 leve before
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#8 Nov 15 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
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To address the communication part, I'd hazard a guess that (for Gysahl at least) a lot or most players are Japanese. So you can't really talk to a significant proportion of people on your server beyond stilted auto-translated phrases.

If you prefer a more social experience in the game, try starting your own LS, do a few /shouts to advertise what you want it to be about and see what happens.
#9 Nov 15 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree to most mmorpg are infact games. But they are also community games. I can talk in ffxi for hours about anything. I wasn't in guild in WoW long as no one would talk. Aion i never made it to 25, had no idea what to do and was just guessing on how stuff was. I meet and made friends with alot of ppl. I just wave and say hi. Not something i seen alot in WoW and 0 in Aion. I also had alot of ppl see a restart and ask if I'm new. Or go to a different server and at least 5 ppl welcome you. Thats what I mean about with community. Convos don't need to be about the game, just asking how someone is doing. Like a few hours ago I saw some sick leg gear on ffxi. I asked if the person was english. They was japanese and I did my best to say I like those pants. They told me it was an addon reward and I congradulated them on getting it and they thanked me. I understand the chat box is limited. But I manage to talk using short sentances.

My personal taste is i'm geared to an mmorpg that great community rather then a ton of content i'm told to solo.

Anyway again please keep convo friendly and ontopic. And really if mmo was bad why are you on a forum for mmo?
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#10 Nov 16 2010 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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Content is definitely lacking as of now, and I see it as the main cause of the lack of a strong community as well. Hopefully the updates will fix the content issue thus fixing the community issue at the same time.

To talk about the community a little, some days I try to just start a party to go and kill things (around areas where we would actually get experience. Not like a bunch of rank 16's going after the mobs right outside the city.), but no one ever responds. I also try and get people involved in behest, but that doesn't work too often either.

The main cause I agree is the content isn't really here yet, but even trying to get a small party to have some interaction is very difficult. Here's to hoping the updates add some activities that more people want to be a part of!
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#11 Nov 16 2010 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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here is the thing though, you don't need content to say hi to a person, strike up a convo, or just be pleasent. Like when I log on ffxi, I say hi to my LS and ask how everyone is doing. I think content helps but isn't the end all be all. But seems that changed. Great replies so far btw. Least most of us agree on stuff.
I think though we should start trying to improve the ffxiv community. Both in game and forums. The game may have had a bad start, but don't mean we need to act like bitter old grumpy gusses. Don't mean ffxiv in game community needs to be hidden in linkshells. in reallity, ffxi is the only mmorpg of the 30+ i tried/played where i had 5+ hour convo with other players. More so about random stuff. That is my main thing I look for in an mmo. And oddly enough that is rare. Well from what I've seen.
Maybe once more people join this topic, we can come up with ways to improve the ffxiv community. Kinda improve the air around here so its more welcoming the a fire pit of h e double hockey sticks. :3
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#12 Nov 16 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
here is the thing though, you don't need content to say hi to a person, strike up a convo, or just be pleasent. Like when I log on ffxi, I say hi to my LS and ask how everyone is doing. I think content helps but isn't the end all be all. But seems that changed. Great replies so far btw. Least most of us agree on stuff.
I think though we should start trying to improve the ffxiv community. Both in game and forums. The game may have had a bad start, but don't mean we need to act like bitter old grumpy gusses. Don't mean ffxiv in game community needs to be hidden in linkshells. in reallity, ffxi is the only mmorpg of the 30+ i tried/played where i had 5+ hour convo with other players. More so about random stuff. That is my main thing I look for in an mmo. And oddly enough that is rare. Well from what I've seen.
Maybe once more people join this topic, we can come up with ways to improve the ffxiv community. Kinda improve the air around here so its more welcoming the a fire pit of h e double hockey sticks. :3


Most MMO players don't see or use it simply as a chat room, you can use MSN and talk to your proper friends for that. The whole point of an MMO is to expereience the fun and excitement of the game with a group, the community is built around that, if there is nothing to do and you're bored it's hard to build a community and most don't want to. Especially when you have to pay for it.

FFXI had the rather amazing community it did because it was forced on you, you were so very reliant on everyone else. That doesnt exist on this game, you don't have to worry about being unable to do anything because you played it like a single player game. On FFXI everyone would always say "don't you have any friends that can help you with """ etc and you had to try to work on getting on with people for that reason. That just isnt on this game, you can go solo most things yourself, and indeed that was one of the main selling points of the game. You can't have solo friendly and amazing community, solo friendly means most MMO players just treat it as a solo game.

Also I have to say you have to keep in mind that most everyone on this forum has played the game while if I'm correct you havent yet right? It's easy to positive about a game when you have yet to play it, the reality of it ruins those grand ideas you have in your head. I was really impressed with everything I saw of the game at the start, a few days of playing soon put that to rest however. I hope the game is as good as you want it to be when you play it on ps3 release but right now the reality for those of us that play or have played it doesn't meet the ideas you have about it.
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#13 Nov 16 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI had the rather amazing community it did because it was forced on you, you were so very reliant on everyone else. That doesnt exist on this game, you don't have to worry about being unable to do anything because you played it like a single player game. On FFXI everyone would always say "don't you have any friends that can help you with """ etc and you had to try to work on getting on with people for that reason.


The bold part includes some of what I didn't like about XI. I was more of a fan of things like Campaign. You're right though, right now XIV is too far on the side of solo regarding content. I think with future content they have the potential to add more community-friendly stuff without it being annoyingly forceful. I'm hoping they can find a good balance there...



Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:57am by TwistedOwl
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#14 Nov 16 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Quote:
FFXI had the rather amazing community it did because it was forced on you, you were so very reliant on everyone else. That doesnt exist on this game, you don't have to worry about being unable to do anything because you played it like a single player game. On FFXI everyone would always say "don't you have any friends that can help you with """ etc and you had to try to work on getting on with people for that reason.


The bold part includes some of what I didn't like about XI. I was more of a fan of things like Campaign. You're right though, right now XIV is too far on the side of solo regarding content. I think with future content they have the potential to add more community-friendly stuff without it being annoyingly forceful. I'm hoping they can find a good balance there...



Edited, Nov 16th 2010 6:57am by TwistedOwl

I pretty much HATED leveling up in PTs. I am a strong believer in being able to use the bathroom whenever I want and not have to get the permission of others. lol That being said, if it weren't for being forced to group up I wouldn't have met many of my friends in FFXI. Makes it a catch 22 I guess. I couldn't stand PTing but I wouldn't have made the friends or had the positive experiences I did without the forced socialization.

Metin wrote:
Well I guess most people disagree with me but Community over content for me. Even if its killing rats with Bob, I would rather do that than slaying a dragon alongside some compuer AI.

I think it's more like people are saying w/o content it's difficult for there to be a community. Why would you and Bob log in to FFXIV to kill rats when you could go to FFXI and kill rats (though I guess rarbs are more like bunnies) and mandys or WoW where you can kill pigs & wolves? And when it gets down to it, why couldn't you and Bob just chat online while doing other things you may enjoy? There needs to be more to an MMORPG to keep people than just socializing because there are all kinds of other options.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 8:34am by MrTalos
#15 Nov 16 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I guess most people disagree with me but Community over content for me. Even if its killing rats with Bob, I would rather do that than slaying a dragon alongside some compuer AI.

I play Tom clancy desert seige with friends on LAN , even though the game is old and content is poor compared to todays standard, it is great fun because of who I play with. I never pick up my ps3 controller until friends come round and we play pro evo, again, an older version but fun because of who I am with. I play online because I want to play with friends, we share a common interest and can reminiss about XI or Aeris or Kefka, but then It's all the more satisfying to slay that dragon with friends who've also spent time building up their character like I have, have battled through the dungeon for hours at 2am along side me. And then you have new things to reminiss about. Content is needed, but dont forget, this is Square, more and more content will come. I dont care if im not the highest level or have the best gear I want to share this experience with friends.

I too have played a lot of Final Fantasy and a lot of MMOs. They are boring when all I focus on is the carrot.
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#16 Nov 16 2010 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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People enjoying themselves make good communities. It doesn't just happen because its forced on people, because the interface/infrastructure is there.
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#17 Nov 16 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
It doesn't just happen because its forced on people,


I disagree, I am extremely antisocial, in XI a few times I wasn't actually enjoying myself, but the forced community not only enriched my enjoyment of the game but taught me real life lessons too. I now force myself into situations where I have to interact with people which I find very uncomfortable but rewarding. IRL the content often sucks, the convo's are total rubbish but interaction with people makes it more enjoyable. Even when I really don't want to go, I go and it benefits others and myself. In a game content is obviously needed or it would just be a chat room, but community is more important. I prefer XI forced party than any game I can solo.
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#18 Nov 16 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Metin wrote:
Well I guess most people disagree with me but Community over content for me. Even if its killing rats with Bob, I would rather do that than slaying a dragon alongside some compuer AI.


I agree with this. If I want to accomplish a virtual goal by myself, I'll play a single player game. If I am playing an MMORPG, it's because I want to accomplish a virtual goal with other people.

Here's what I posted on my LS forum:

Quote:
I certainly can't argue with the social aspect issue; the friends I made on FFXI, on WoW, on DDO,on any MMORPG I've played were what made the game great many times; it's not so much about what you're doing as it is the people you're doing those things with (Insert lewd comment here). Some of my favorite moments from every MMORPG I've ever played involved the people just as much as the game.

My biggest triumphs in WoW were not one and done pug raids, which I was certainly a good enough player for, but the constant wipe after wipe to Ragnaros, to Illidan, to Hodir, to Icehowl, to Marrowgar... it wasn't the win that got me excited, but who I won -with-.

The same goes for FFXI; doing a six man Byakko (at 75) or duoing Genbu (also at 75) were pretty fun, but it was infinitely more fun by the people I did these things with. Some of the most fun I've had in XI wasn't always accomplishing anything, but just killing some NMs with some good friends. It didn't matter if I got gear from it, all that mattered was the good times.

I feel like FFXIV lacks that for me. Seems like there's no one around, and the people who are around don't want to do anything. I'll try to get on some more in the next week and see if things pick up, but quite honestly all I'm seeing is a game that feels less like a multiplayer community and more like a single player game that other people also happen to be playing.
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#19 Nov 16 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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When I first started playing MMO's 11 years ago, community was king for me as well. I loved EQ1 and played it forever. Mainly for the people I knew. I was in my mid 20's at the time and most of the people online were young adults as well. We had intelligent conversations and I considered them friends. When my time was over there I tried to keep in touch with them but in time for the most part we realized that all we really had in common was the game and we grew apart.

I have gone through other MMO's over the years and watched as the previously adult online worlds became invaded by people of younger ages who had very little of any importance to talk about with. I have made a few real friends that I talk with on a regular basis. But for the most part, I began to realize that these people are not truly friends. Lets face it eventually either you or they get bored with the game and move on but few will even remember you even a scant few months later.

Perhaps I am jaded now by bad experiences, but I just don't care to know "how you are" anymore. Most people have no relevance to my life or my career. They are just someone I enjoy playing a game with. If said game has no content to enjoy together there is little point for me. I'm not opposed to making friends online, but experience has taught me that finding real friends rarely happens.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 12:26pm by Ezariel
#20 Nov 16 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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ffxi is the longest time ive played an mmo. all I do is level my jobs and talk. I don't do much else. I've met my b/f of 5+ years on ffxi. And even if i was to take a year off, most people i was friends with recall me. Being antisocial or jaded i think are the worst mindsets to have when joining an mmorpg. But that is just my opinion. I'm not a big fan of endgame on ffxi. Or done much of anything outside leveling and talking. I'm all about being pleasent to people, helping them out. And just striking up a convo. on FFXi it easy to be well known.My b/f is pretty well known on our server for running a very large and well known LS. I'm known more as "the g/f of" XD. Everytime i say i'm my b/fs g/f they go "oh ya i know ya " XD Its pretty funny. I eveb remember most the ppl who helped me that i befriended also and haven't seen in years. Like the galkan I met day one who brought me through giddues my first time. Only talked to him for 2 day 6 years ago.And still recall him :) (cont)
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#21 Nov 16 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Part of having a good community is making happy memories. Most my memories are with hanging with other people and having fun doing w/e. To me mmorpg, are 50% game 50% chat room. Sure in recent mmo you can do alot of stuff solo, but what point would it be to spend money for a solo experiance? you can play a single player game and solo. Like my only good WoW memory is beerfest, someone was doing a "ride" on that rare white mamoth. You pay a small fee and he road you around the region. Only time on Wow where i had fun. A good example of what I mean or how I am feeling is, from an anime called monster. the monster was nameless and ate people he tried possesing. Till he ran onto a sickly prince and took his name. Then he ate everyone. He got a name, but no one to call it.
Like in ffxiv sure you can solo alot, but what would the point of earning those levels solo if no one was there to praise ya? Or felt good as it was with friends. Why party alone when there is a world full of people to enjoy a good time with.
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#22 Nov 16 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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Ezariel wrote:
... but experience has taught me that finding real friends rarely happens.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 12:26pm by Ezariel


I agree. It's the same in real life. You meet a lot of people you consider as friends from your school or college but once its over you realized that the only connection you had with them is college and the bonds u share goes away.
#23 Nov 17 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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But that don't mean making friends is pointless. And i've found when you play mmorpg, at times 1 similar interest is just an ice breaker and you find more interest you share. Like movies, other games. Just ask. :) That is what can be done in ffxiv. Just walk by people wave or say hello. If they say hi back just ask how they are doing, maybe ask hey have you played game x? or watch movie y? Talking passes time. :) And it helps make "chore" like things less chore like. It happens real life to. Like doing dishes alone is a chore. But if you talk to someone about anything it becomes less a chore. Since you are more focused on something else then the chore.
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#24 Nov 17 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Just to throw in my experience. I think I've spoken to approximately 3 people in 2 weeks of playing, one of which is a real life friend, another was someone asking for help (new starter) and one really nice JP player yesterday who I met in a failed party. No one answers to shouts, tells, or local chat. Saying that though, the Japanese do tend to talk to eachother when addressed. Sorry if there's poor grammar, I'm typing this on my phone. :)
#25 Nov 17 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
I'm a big mmorpg player. I played free to play, Mud, and pay to play mmorpg. Anything i find fun for one reason or another. Like, i want to play ffxiv due to the lack of auto attack (and yes ffxiv has no auto attack spaming 1 isn't auto attacking you are keying an attack) and motion capture like stuff from Avatar the movie and the game Heavy rain.


But I see alot of posts on ffxiv saying it lacks content, it lacks a carrot on a stick. I plated ffxi and never felt like I had to chase a carrot on a stick. I just log on to play with other players. If i get a level, a mission done, or a piece of rare gear, that is just icing on the cake. I've also heard ffxiv lack a community, such examples is no one who plays is tryinbg to make the wards work, they are waiting for SE to "fix" them. I've heard that no one talks outside Linkshells.

I'm wondering why lack of community isn't a bigger issue. Since playing with a community of players is (in my honest opinion) where mmorpg shine. You meet new people who share at least one thing in common and may find more. This results in making new friends.

I've tried WoW, Aion and Guild wars. The same thing. No one really talks outside guilds/legions. Infact in Aion there is no such thing as a social legion all require to be 25+. If you look for a legion under that you will be told off, rated down and infact reported on.

Where is the concern for more content over a better community coming from? I seen this more in the forum for ffxiv, then most games.

Also what is the point of an mmorpg if there is no community? To me the point of an mmo is having a strong community. Sure it does help to have fun content, but most ppl want content to solo.

anyway discuss.

Please be friendly and not insult anyone for comments, say they are stupid (using big words or small) and stay on topic.

(and no psych 101 babble please. its hard to follow and really turns into a buzz kill when people think to much about simple things.)



XIV's party system needs a rehaul. And so do the general population mobs.
XI leaned heavily on party based gameplay, if you didnt have a party you couldn't do anything. XIV fixed this at the cost of sacrificing party play at all.
Are there parties? Yes. Reasons to party? Sure. But if you take a look at the party dynamics its more of a party of players solo playing on the same mob.

The parties require no coordination other than selecting a main tank.

And the mobs go down way too quickly to need any other coordination anyway. I rarely get SP for debuffing as my thaumaturge, its MP costly (mp which doesn't regen, added to the fact they are all low hp mobs) and the players burn through the mob so fast that DoT makes no sense to be used.

Even when fighting higher level mobs all you see is engage, tank vokes, healers aoe cure and the rest mash basic attacks until they can trigger a weaponskill.

Then there's the fact that the classes aren't diferenciated enough... but well, I won't get into that since SE said they are going to adjust that very soon.

Bottom line, this is what's killing the community.

That and that they made all the missions soloable. That was just stupid.
Crafters and such should be able to control their NPCs to fight in their stead in instanced battles through commands or suggestions (shout tank! heal! attack! and so). Nerfing all battles just ruins it for the rest of the players.

Grouping in order to beat a mission on XI... thats what brought people together. That and being forced partying.


So the content is there, kind of. But its the wrong kind of content. Real party content? Yeah there is none.
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#26 Nov 17 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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That is true the forced grouping helped. But doing your part as a person helps. Just understabd there are real people playing. :) just wave and see where it goes. I think people are focused too much on the content rather then being social. I've played MUD, basically texted base mmo. And seen more talking ( meaning no pointless random comments like "noobs are stupid" ) I think community can be better if ppl just try and act like there is more to the game then just content and personal gain. :) If people communicated, may find out what retainers are selling or find buyers for your stuff. Whuch would mean retainer/ wards would run a just bit better w/o those flashy changes.
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#27 Nov 17 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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People don't like to hear it, but the sad fact is, people would rather play on servers with other people who speak the same language.

Maybe someone should do a poll;
#28 Nov 17 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Not me. I talked with ppl from japan, china, french germany. Who knew a lil english. And had some good convo using translater. I like meeting people aroud the world gets me wanting to learn other languages. Plus one of the better mmo for events are ffxi as its mixed with west and east cultures. And alot of japanese based events are fun. :) Like the childs day ones. :3
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#29 Nov 18 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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I have no problem with being with people on the same server from other parts of the world. In FFXI I had a french friend who barely could speak English, but she knew enough that I could make sense of what she was saying. We completed all the promies and all the smn avatar battles together, so I don't think being on the same server with just English speakers will improve the community.

Another FFXI example is I had a Korean friend in game and she spoke better than my French friend, but we got NM fights, CoP missions done, rank missions 5-10, and partied with each other, so again I don't mind being with people who don't speak English.

When it boils down to it we are all just FFXIV players, not divided countries when we play this game.
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#30 Nov 18 2010 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Both are necessary.

But content > community. This is a game first of all, not a chat room.

However, MMORPG's are bad games, with subpar gameplay. That's why there's gotta be a community to somehow separate these games from the better ones out there. Otherwise there's pretty much no reason to play them over other, better games.

You can't be successful with just one of them in place either way.


MMORPG's are nothing more then chat rooms with something to do together, people lost sight of that aspect many years ago when itemization and pixelation become a priority for some.

I myself would rather play with 50k people who are enjoying themselves, rather then play with 5 million people who do nothing but complain, whine and fling poo at each other all day long cause they ethier hate the game and take it out on everyone else and kill the morale or are just destructive teenagers who hate life in general.

I think every game goes through these issues in the first few months of a live release, so many people want the game to be something it's not and these people tend to fall of on the waves along the way and drown at sea. The rest of us hold on for the ride and enjoy the game with others who enjoy it also at the end of the storm once everything has settled.

Content > community = bad attitude.
#31 Nov 18 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Default
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i rather play an MUD with 300 ppl who talk and help train each other. then with 11mil ppl who require outside sources rather in game sources to talk to each other. Vent = mmo killer in my eyes. well vent + addon, as addons ruined myt pc : / becareful what addons you try some do have trojens. And who just say go to site x for all your issues. XD

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 7:14am by Irishclass777
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#32 Nov 18 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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Not sure which would be better, I would like to have more Leves that were not repetitive. I am getting the same ones I got when starting the game and the rewards and SP/XP are diminishing quickly. But one thing that I dislike is being forced to do things with a group of people just to get ahead.
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#33 Nov 18 2010 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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@thorn
question, would you talk to random people other wise?
i miss the days where mmorpg community acted like one. Not all the "must get ahead" stuff. I enjoy taking my time and enjoying the company of others as i quest/ adventure my way around the world.

I kinda think WoW is sorta the blame. Since that game is 80% solo 20% grouping for endgame, and even still no one really acts like a team. Its all me me me. Example is requiring addons and vent to do endgame.
if you can't do either you can't join in group activities. Like for a while the people i live with said i couldn't get it ad children were always present. And Addon i had ruined my pc cept crashing my pc the game. Some addons on curse do have trojens in them. Since all addon are player made.
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#34 Nov 18 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
i rather play an MUD with 300 ppl who talk and help train each other. then with 11mil ppl who require outside sources rather in game sources to talk to each other. Vent = mmo killer in my eyes. well vent + addon, as addons ruined myt pc : / becareful what addons you try some do have trojens. And who just say go to site x for all your issues. XD

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 7:14am by Irishclass777


I agree, WoW has done some serious irreversable damage to not only the way new comers percieve MMO's but also people who have only been playing them since its release.

I remember back in EQ1 days before VOIP even exsisted, leading 120+ man/woman raids with no VOIP at all, just people joining certain channels for Clerics for example doing a Full heal rotation, Monks/Bards spilting trash mobs and pulling them back to the raid. The game required a certain finese at end game that makes me look at games today and wonder what the **** went wrong. Can anyone here even remotely imagine what it was like to lead 100+ people via chat channels only?

Now, in todays age even with VOIP, I can't get a group of people to even remotely become coordinated and organized like those 120+ people from EQ1 days. People just don't care for it and take no pride in thier achivements because the accomplishments are so easily achieved.

There is no finese required in games these days and as games keep on beating the horse with solo based content as far as the eye can see, this problem will always exsist, because the moment you try and endorse a group based atmophere within a game, people whine that they want thier cake and they want to eat it too.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 4:30pm by Taemek
#35 Nov 18 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I figured out why I am not social outside of my LS with anyone. You have to type in a name just to send someone a /tell and there is no /search function. In FFXI I would be farming or soloing or just running around and would target people and send a /tell or wave. Especially lower levels when I was grinding on Orcs outside Sandy and see some people near my level I would send a /tell asking if they want to team up or you could /search any area and send a tell to anyone in an area asking if they are farming or whatever. It worked great, in fact I think it actually made FFXI the strong community it was. Sad it wasn't carried over to FFXIV.
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#36 Nov 18 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Ponderosa wrote:
People don't like to hear it, but the sad fact is, people would rather play on servers with other people who speak the same language.

Maybe someone should do a poll;


I rather play with people who don't speak my language. Then again, I'm not from the US. Or japan.


Seriously though, if you are from neither of those two countries you are likely to not care where the person is from. I'm not saying all americans and japanese do, just that the ones I've had issues with or witnessed things like that were either one or the other and with no one else through *many* years of FFXI partying.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 4:47pm by MajidahSihaam
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#37 Nov 18 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I was fighting some crabs in South Forest and as someone passed by I said "I hope this doesnt give me crabs" and got a lol. I do hope the community starts to pick up in the future. Its up to the people who choose to continue playing FFXIV to take the initiative and start talking to strangers and making friends/linkshells in the game.
#38 Nov 18 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry to say it but if FFXIV had better gameplay or more to do in-world, I wouldnt be here complaining about it, I would be reading up on quest details or posting info to help others. As it stands theres nothing to talk about because theres nothing in the game that didnt get discovered in 5 minutes :(
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#39 Nov 18 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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there is always something to talk about just strike up a convo, say to random people. and just get to know them. how i make friends on ffxi
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#40 Nov 18 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@thorn
question, would you talk to random people other wise?
i miss the days where mmorpg community acted like one. Not all the "must get ahead" stuff. I enjoy taking my time and enjoying the company of others as i quest/ adventure my way around the world.

I kinda think WoW is sorta the blame. Since that game is 80% solo 20% grouping for endgame, and even still no one really acts like a team. Its all me me me. Example is requiring addons and vent to do endgame.
if you can't do either you can't join in group activities. Like for a while the people i live with said i couldn't get it ad children were always present. And Addon i had ruined my pc cept crashing my pc the game. Some addons on curse do have trojens in them. Since all addon are player made.


Oh, I am not interested in the getting ahead either, I just like to play on my own terms in my own way. Too many times in other MMOs while in groups some people get a bet... agitated when things don't go well. They are only interested in making the next Raid or the next level to get that next whatever. Kind of hard to play a game and enjoy it when you always seem to be playing on someone else's time clock.
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#41 Nov 18 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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ya, but that happens in real life as well. Like at work you are on your bosses time. With friends your on your friends time. Only time we are on our time is on solo activities. That was a well known concept in mmo though, you are will real people all with different scheduals. But people made to with time given. Just give advance notices if you got to go at a certain time. And make sure you got the time to do it.
Thats why i kinda blame WoW a bit, not saying its a bad game. But it made mmorpg be anti mmorpg. Where as ppl perfer to solo rather then dealing with other players and their scheduals.
Also WoW brought in alot of players who never would have played an mmorpg. Sure it increased the player base, but also ruined the community. It was aroubd the launch of WoW is when ffxiv did their shift from content over community. Aion got a nasty community. no one tals to you unless your 25+. the only legions are ebd game ones. And require vent. I play games just to play. I'm not too worried about end game etc.
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#42 Nov 18 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Indeed let's put the blame on others, i mean is not like if the community suck's is because well the community SUCKS! Nope cant be that, it has to be something else, i mean look at wow, with vent's and addon's, forcing people to use them <.< almost reminds me of those people that complained about FFXII gambit system! Damm FFXII making gambits mandatory ...

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#43 Nov 18 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Indeed let's put the blame on others, i mean is not like if the community suck's is because well the community SUCKS! Nope cant be that, it has to be something else, i mean look at wow, with vent's and addon's, forcing people to use them <.< almost reminds me of those people that complained about FFXII gambit system! Damm FFXII making gambits mandatory ...

first off please understand whay ia REALLY being said.
ffxi had a good community, no one cared much about leveling speeds/ min/max / how players played.
WoW comes along and you max out in 3 weeks, player put that on only way ffxi is fun if we max out as fast as possible. This leads to a bad community. Since ppl are focused on the "me me" rather then the lets have fun grouping and talking while killing.
I've actually tried joining guilds in WoW but always got ask if i had vent. I would say no and not be invited. So yes you too many guild rely on vent and will not let ppl in who don;t use it. That is petty and brings the community down
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#44 Nov 18 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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this topic is about WHY the 1> shift in the player base wanting more content rather then a fux community. an 2> how or why could be the reason ffxiv does have a bad community. and 3> possible ways it was lead to it.
One reason is WoW. It to me is an anti mmo. too much focus on the solo. rather then the community. Not everyone plays mmorpg for endgame. I know alot of ppl on ffxi who could care less. It seems like ppl NEED reasons to do anything. I see that ppl don't NEED a reason. Like talk to other players. you don't NEED content to ask how someone is doing, what movies they like. Communitys are about trust/friendship/ teamwork. From my year+ on WoW game lacks that. too much relying on outside sources to learn to play your role w/o being told to. timing and how boss fights are easy to follow once you do trial and error. You learn how the monster fights, and what to watch out for. In ffxi most players plan befire entering a battle. And make sure everyone knows the plan. Then exicute it.
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#45 Nov 18 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Indeed let's put the blame on others, i mean is not like if the community suck's is because well the community SUCKS! Nope cant be that, it has to be something else, i mean look at wow, with vent's and addon's, forcing people to use them <.< almost reminds me of those people that complained about FFXII gambit system! Damm FFXII making gambits mandatory ...

first off please understand whay ia REALLY being said.
ffxi had a good community, no one cared much about leveling speeds/ min/max / how players played.
WoW comes along and you max out in 3 weeks, player put that on only way ffxi is fun if we max out as fast as possible. This leads to a bad community. Since ppl are focused on the "me me" rather then the lets have fun grouping and talking while killing.
I've actually tried joining guilds in WoW but always got ask if i had vent. I would say no and not be invited. So yes you too many guild rely on vent and will not let ppl in who don;t use it. That is petty and brings the community down


First off, lets not go overboard, in wow at release you could not max out in 3 weeks kay ? and at release nobody was wondering about the min/max of dps,tanking or healing, that came out later when viable raids came out. So to say the moment wow came into the picture the community started to care bout this things is just not true, and that's an aspect that has existed always in MMO's, there will be always those that wanna do the most damage, the most healing etc etc. And guilds relying on vent affects the community how ? they are communicating are they not ? what does "Typing" adds some unknown fun factor ? I use vent, not just to raid, but also for dungeons and grouping with my guildies, and is a blast, beats having to be typing mad quick to be able to hit hotkey's, and what you say about guilds asking for vent, that is totally true, they ask for vent, and atleast DDM as an addon in order to raid, again not all guilds require this of you, but most do. As for the me me me in the community, thats the community's fault.
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#46 Nov 18 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
this topic is about WHY the 1> shift in the player base wanting more content rather then a fux community. an 2> how or why could be the reason ffxiv does have a bad community. and 3> possible ways it was lead to it.
One reason is WoW. It to me is an anti mmo. too much focus on the solo. rather then the community. Not everyone plays mmorpg for endgame. I know alot of ppl on ffxi who could care less. It seems like ppl NEED reasons to do anything. I see that ppl don't NEED a reason. Like talk to other players. you don't NEED content to ask how someone is doing, what movies they like. Communitys are about trust/friendship/ teamwork. From my year+ on WoW game lacks that. too much relying on outside sources to learn to play your role w/o being told to. timing and how boss fights are easy to follow once you do trial and error. You learn how the monster fights, and what to watch out for. In ffxi most players plan befire entering a battle. And make sure everyone knows the plan. Then exicute it.


I do agree with you in some extent, but this is a game, if i wanna ask people what movies they like, and what trend is hot right now etc etc, i'll go ask in a forum or ask the people in my msn/facebook/myspace. If the game has no content, well then i'm gonna talk about how this game has no content and is boring as ****, but if the game has content, i could talk about how great the content is, and how i wanna go make a group and raid and engage in such content, or i could talk about the lore behind it, and what storyline they could be trying to play etc etc.

Btw: There is no add on that tells you how to play your class in wow, they do help you if you are a slow learner, but in no way shape or form do they play the game for you
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#47 Nov 18 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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and thats the problen with the community. ppl rely too much on outside sources to communicate. If i am unable to use outside sources i am unable to communicate with others. See the issue?

That is also another issue with the community. People are UNWILLING to talk. I made alot of friends on ffxi by getting to know them.
Getting to know ppl builds trust, trust builds friendship, friendship build a better game time. People work better with others they trust. That is a fact.
I have fun party grinding in ffxi because i am willing to talk and get to know the people i group with.
Why play an mmo if you are unwilling to be social? Of the 30+ ppl i played and tried WoW and Aion was the only 2 mmo that had pretty bad communities.
maybe Or you can try having a convo with someone and get to know them by typing. You may be surpized how much fun that is.
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#48 Nov 18 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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Community is built around content, sustained by socially focused activities within the game and kept running by an intuitive interface.


You don't see any in FF14 because it lacks all the above.

Closest thing I've seen to a community are a bunch of crafters huddled together.



Misery loves company.




Edited, Nov 18th 2010 10:24pm by Skyfaller
#49 Nov 18 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
and thats the problen with the community. ppl rely too much on outside sources to communicate. If i am unable to use outside sources i am unable to communicate with others. See the issue?

That is also another issue with the community. People are UNWILLING to talk. I made alot of friends on ffxi by getting to know them.
Getting to know ppl builds trust, trust builds friendship, friendship build a better game time. People work better with others they trust. That is a fact.
I have fun party grinding in ffxi because i am willing to talk and get to know the people i group with.
Why play an mmo if you are unwilling to be social? Of the 30+ ppl i played and tried WoW and Aion was the only 2 mmo that had pretty bad communities.
maybe Or you can try having a convo with someone and get to know them by typing. You may be surpized how much fun that is.


True! But those are choice's people make, if i wanna max my toon as fast and possible and have no friends at end game, that is my own fault, if i wanna use outside sources to help me raid at end content that is also my choice, at the end of the day if i'm having fun, thats all that metter's to me, if you like grinding 65million mobs to get from lvl 1-25 more power to you, but most people dont, thats why games that are designed like that only have a few hundred thousand subs, why would i wanna pay 15 dollars a month for a game that will have me grind like it's 1998, just with better graphics and pretty colors ?
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#50 Nov 18 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Skyfaller wrote:
Community is built around content, sustained by socially focused activities within the game and kept running by an intuitive interface.


You don't see any in FF14 because it lacks all the above.

Closest thing I've seen to a community are a bunch of crafters huddled together. Edited, Nov 18th 2010 10:24pm by Skyfaller

minus what you see in ffxiv that is false.
:)
here is why:
you don't need content to say hello.
You don't need content to talk.
Content is just a fine activity to do while talking.
Content is not the end all be all of communicating.
And with the mindset of requiring content to talk, Is i guess why ffxiv community sucks.
So know i understand the mindset of other players in ffxiv and other games.
So lets try to fix it :)
Try logging into ffxiv with a community mind set, make an effort to either /wave or say hello to at least 5 ppl. If you get a reply ask them what they are doing, or if they need help with anything, wish them good luck. Basic stuff.
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#51 Nov 18 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
It is a little quiet on my server. I'm used to more socializing in almost every other MMO i have played. I think people are just waiting. Frustrated, and waiting.
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