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#52 Nov 18 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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@ ostia
But here is the thing, mmorpg are not always about YOU. Thay are not single player games.
I' got the feeling mmorpg maybe are not your type of game since your mindset is geared to only yourself. Sure you choose things, but maybe that mindset is against the purpose or point of the mmorpg ganre, ever considered that?
This is why i fell WoW is partly to blame. Which is why the mmorpg communities are starting to suck. People who only focus on the gaming aspect of the mmorpg and not the community part.
They feel or choose not to. Which is part of the problem on why ffxiv community sucks. too many ppl choosing to only focus on the game side rather then community side. Which appeared after WoW. Since wow was more game focus and less on the community. Like the abiliy to solo to cap. and only grouping for endgame. Also not saying WoW is a bad game i did have some fun. But i am not paying a mnthly fee for a single player experiance. Why would anyone?
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#53 Nov 18 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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Bah, I've noticed this too, especially the 'no one talks outside LS' thing. I met plenty of people in FFXI through chatting outside LS, in fact I spent more time talking to players in the field (BST: camp negotiations, helping players and duos) than I did talking on LS.

You've hit the nail on the head for me, it's the one thing I really honestly don't like about this game as opposed to FFXI: it feels more like a PvP server on WoW to me. I want to emote and goof around with people and feel like I can't: I can't even really tell off-color jokes on LS without getting a lot of static for it. FFXI was a lot more informal, possibly because we were all dying left and right and if you couldn't party, you couldn't play (for most of the game's history anyway). I could emote at people in town and they would laugh, or at least react. There were Galkas named Mancandy. FFXIV, in some ways, feels like an endgame nightmare before the dream's even begun.



Edited, Nov 18th 2010 11:25pm by Sioux
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#54 Nov 18 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXIV community? What FFXIV community?
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#55 Nov 18 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ostia
But here is the thing, mmorpg are not always about YOU. Thay are not single player games.
I' got the feeling mmorpg maybe are not your type of game since your mindset is geared to only yourself. Sure you choose things, but maybe that mindset is against the purpose or point of the mmorpg ganre, ever considered that?
This is why i fell WoW is partly to blame. Which is why the mmorpg communities are starting to suck. People who only focus on the gaming aspect of the mmorpg and not the community part.
They feel or choose not to. Which is part of the problem on why ffxiv community sucks. too many ppl choosing to only focus on the game side rather then community side. Which appeared after WoW. Since wow was more game focus and less on the community. Like the abiliy to solo to cap. and only grouping for endgame. Also not saying WoW is a bad game i did have some fun. But i am not paying a mnthly fee for a single player experiance. Why would anyone?


I agree, but there is NOTHING to do in FFXIV! By me starting to talk to people and being all social and stuff, content is not gonna fall from the sky and say: Hi here have fun! I wanna have fun with a community doing stuff, not sitting in a city crafting while i wait for the developers to inject the game with some content, that should had been there in the first place, I play wow, i was raiding today, i just joined the guild im in 2 days ago, we raided for 3 hours, cleared a wing of ICC and wiped like 7 times in a boss i had already cleared hundreds of time on 10/25 modes, and i had fun, and all this using vent, and sure there where people typing in party/raid chant and stuff, when the raid was done, i went and did some PVP, i'm not great at pvp, but is fun, if i wanted to go farm and craft and make gold, i can too, if i wanna go and explore and earn a few achivements i can do that too, in FFXIV there is nothing to do, just kill wildlife till you hit lvl cap and then go and do the samething again with another class :)

Why would i wanna pay for a game that has nothing to do, that offers nothing new, there is no new mechanic in FFXIV that is not present in wow, or done better ? Wow crafting takes 3 minutes :O! and it actually looks like my toon is doing something :O! Wow! thats wack, if they had put that effort in the battlesystem i would had been hooked, but they dint :)
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#56 Nov 19 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Indeed let's put the blame on others, i mean is not like if the community suck's is because well the community SUCKS! Nope cant be that, it has to be something else, i mean look at wow, with vent's and addon's, forcing people to use them <.< almost reminds me of those people that complained about FFXII gambit system! Damm FFXII making gambits mandatory ...

first off please understand whay ia REALLY being said.
ffxi had a good community, no one cared much about leveling speeds/ min/max / how players played.
WoW comes along and you max out in 3 weeks, player put that on only way ffxi is fun if we max out as fast as possible. This leads to a bad community. Since ppl are focused on the "me me" rather then the lets have fun grouping and talking while killing.
I've actually tried joining guilds in WoW but always got ask if i had vent. I would say no and not be invited. So yes you too many guild rely on vent and will not let ppl in who don;t use it. That is petty and brings the community down


First off, lets not go overboard, in wow at release you could not max out in 3 weeks kay ? and at release nobody was wondering about the min/max of dps,tanking or healing, that came out later when viable raids came out. So to say the moment wow came into the picture the community started to care bout this things is just not true, and that's an aspect that has existed always in MMO's, there will be always those that wanna do the most damage, the most healing etc etc. And guilds relying on vent affects the community how ? they are communicating are they not ? what does "Typing" adds some unknown fun factor ? I use vent, not just to raid, but also for dungeons and grouping with my guildies, and is a blast, beats having to be typing mad quick to be able to hit hotkey's, and what you say about guilds asking for vent, that is totally true, they ask for vent, and atleast DDM as an addon in order to raid, again not all guilds require this of you, but most do. As for the me me me in the community, thats the community's fault.



Hmm, I dunno. I was 48 in the first 3 weeks I picked up the game and quit based on the leveling speed and the communities attitude in open chat, it just stunk.

In every game I play, I take dps, tanking and healing very seriously. I always aim at ways to better myself as a player and do everything in my utmost power to give a group/raid 110%, even at the beginning, middle and end of a game.

My ability to enjoy myself in a game is perfecting my class, sure I might take it a little too seriously, but thats the fun aspect for me, not everyone is like me.
#57 Nov 19 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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@ Ostia
I think you are mis understanding things.
First off, i'm not bashing WoW the game or its content. I'm bashing WoW the community if anything. Mmorpg was more about the community then the single player. And what we can do as a team. Plus ffxiv is a new game content will be added. Sorry if you are not willing to wait, but not really what I'm talking about.
MMorpg were 50% game 50% chatroom. Sitting and chatting are part of the experiance. It is also something to do. And something you can have fun doing if you try. Plus get used to typing once ps3 players come in vent will be useless. Not every ps3 member will have access to vent.
and to the person with the "what ffxiv community" pretty much sums it up.
too many players of ffxiv are too focus on content or lack of. Complain to no end, while forgeting there are players you can chat with. Most complaints sound like a bad release of a single player game.
This topic is about community or lack of. Why its happening. What we can do to fix it.
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#58 Nov 19 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ostia
But here is the thing, mmorpg are not always about YOU. Thay are not single player games.
I' got the feeling mmorpg maybe are not your type of game since your mindset is geared to only yourself. Sure you choose things, but maybe that mindset is against the purpose or point of the mmorpg ganre, ever considered that?
This is why i fell WoW is partly to blame. Which is why the mmorpg communities are starting to suck. People who only focus on the gaming aspect of the mmorpg and not the community part.
They feel or choose not to. Which is part of the problem on why ffxiv community sucks. too many ppl choosing to only focus on the game side rather then community side. Which appeared after WoW. Since wow was more game focus and less on the community. Like the abiliy to solo to cap. and only grouping for endgame. Also not saying WoW is a bad game i did have some fun. But i am not paying a mnthly fee for a single player experiance. Why would anyone?


I agree, but there is NOTHING to do in FFXIV! By me starting to talk to people and being all social and stuff, content is not gonna fall from the sky and say: Hi here have fun! I wanna have fun with a community doing stuff, not sitting in a city crafting while i wait for the developers to inject the game with some content, that should had been there in the first place, I play wow, i was raiding today, i just joined the guild im in 2 days ago, we raided for 3 hours, cleared a wing of ICC and wiped like 7 times in a boss i had already cleared hundreds of time on 10/25 modes, and i had fun, and all this using vent, and sure there where people typing in party/raid chant and stuff, when the raid was done, i went and did some PVP, i'm not great at pvp, but is fun, if i wanted to go farm and craft and make gold, i can too, if i wanna go and explore and earn a few achivements i can do that too, in FFXIV there is nothing to do, just kill wildlife till you hit lvl cap and then go and do the samething again with another class :)

Why would i wanna pay for a game that has nothing to do, that offers nothing new, there is no new mechanic in FFXIV that is not present in wow, or done better ? Wow crafting takes 3 minutes :O! and it actually looks like my toon is doing something :O! Wow! thats wack, if they had put that effort in the battlesystem i would had been hooked, but they dint :)



WoW - Been out for almost 7 years.
FFXIV - Been out for almost 2 months.

See the difference here?

Games evolve over time. Everything from one game that took 6+ years to blossom is not automatically transfered from one game to another. Games are unqiue in that they are set upon different foundations. Games are not generic, Developers and Producers do not share the same focuses or goals.

One of the problems is, people have difficulty letting go and moving on and tend to want a rehashed system of what they are famaliar with.

All those things you claim you cannot do, I can do here np, ie;

If I want Gil, I can grind for it.
If I wan to earn Gil, I can do Leve's for it.
If I want to earn Gil, I can craft for it.
If I want to grind SP, I can group for it OR solo for it.
If I want a challenge during doing Leve's, I can get 14 other people and do it on 5 stars or less depending on numbers in the group.
If I want to craft, I can.
If I want to explore, I can.
If I want to kill stuff, I can.
If I want to try out a different class, all I have to do is get a different weapon.

I can go on and on. Issue here is the community want their hand's held along what ever path they choose to take via multiple quest hubs that lead you from one to the other. This has made lazy players imho both in the aspect of online adventure and community based aspects.
#59 Nov 19 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Default
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i found that dull in WoW. I tried getting ppl to join me, they said "i get better exp solo" I tried talking to ppl in WoW, i got told to @#% off. I tried playing on an RP server ran into stormwind and was soon bullied by 6 guys. I mean up close and personal character to character. Calling me a hoe, horde hoe, horde spy hoe, a Sl%#%, p$$#nshire SL##@. Then even encircled my character and was unable to up move through them to walk away. Then when i talked about it on forums I was reported on and temp ban for 3 days. Most ppl said it was my fault for trying to RP @ lvl 1.
Sorry but that some sorry excuse for a community.
Even with all that content.
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#60 Nov 19 2010 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ Ostia
I think you are mis understanding things.
First off, i'm not bashing WoW the game or its content. I'm bashing WoW the community if anything. Mmorpg was more about the community then the single player. And what we can do as a team. Plus ffxiv is a new game content will be added. Sorry if you are not willing to wait, but not really what I'm talking about.
MMorpg were 50% game 50% chatroom. Sitting and chatting are part of the experiance. It is also something to do. And something you can have fun doing if you try. Plus get used to typing once ps3 players come in vent will be useless. Not every ps3 member will have access to vent.
and to the person with the "what ffxiv community" pretty much sums it up.
too many players of ffxiv are too focus on content or lack of. Complain to no end, while forgeting there are players you can chat with. Most complaints sound like a bad release of a single player game.
This topic is about community or lack of. Why its happening. What we can do to fix it.


Because ps3 players have no mic ? i'm i right ? And yes MMORPGS where about the community and the friends you made, but that does not mean, they need to be a boring grind from lvl 1-50, and then and end content zerg a boss with 70+ people, there is not even one boss in FFXIV <.< even mystic quest had bosses <.< and that was the ********* FF ever

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#61 Nov 19 2010 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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Taemek wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ostia
But here is the thing, mmorpg are not always about YOU. Thay are not single player games.
I' got the feeling mmorpg maybe are not your type of game since your mindset is geared to only yourself. Sure you choose things, but maybe that mindset is against the purpose or point of the mmorpg ganre, ever considered that?
This is why i fell WoW is partly to blame. Which is why the mmorpg communities are starting to suck. People who only focus on the gaming aspect of the mmorpg and not the community part.
They feel or choose not to. Which is part of the problem on why ffxiv community sucks. too many ppl choosing to only focus on the game side rather then community side. Which appeared after WoW. Since wow was more game focus and less on the community. Like the abiliy to solo to cap. and only grouping for endgame. Also not saying WoW is a bad game i did have some fun. But i am not paying a mnthly fee for a single player experiance. Why would anyone?


I agree, but there is NOTHING to do in FFXIV! By me starting to talk to people and being all social and stuff, content is not gonna fall from the sky and say: Hi here have fun! I wanna have fun with a community doing stuff, not sitting in a city crafting while i wait for the developers to inject the game with some content, that should had been there in the first place, I play wow, i was raiding today, i just joined the guild im in 2 days ago, we raided for 3 hours, cleared a wing of ICC and wiped like 7 times in a boss i had already cleared hundreds of time on 10/25 modes, and i had fun, and all this using vent, and sure there where people typing in party/raid chant and stuff, when the raid was done, i went and did some PVP, i'm not great at pvp, but is fun, if i wanted to go farm and craft and make gold, i can too, if i wanna go and explore and earn a few achivements i can do that too, in FFXIV there is nothing to do, just kill wildlife till you hit lvl cap and then go and do the samething again with another class :)

Why would i wanna pay for a game that has nothing to do, that offers nothing new, there is no new mechanic in FFXIV that is not present in wow, or done better ? Wow crafting takes 3 minutes :O! and it actually looks like my toon is doing something :O! Wow! thats wack, if they had put that effort in the battlesystem i would had been hooked, but they dint :)



WoW - Been out for almost 7 years.
FFXIV - Been out for almost 2 months.

See the difference here?

Games evolve over time. Everything from one game that took 6+ years to blossom is not automatically transfered from one game to another. Games are unqiue in that they are set upon different foundations. Games are not generic, Developers and Producers do not share the same focuses or goals.

One of the problems is, people have difficulty letting go and moving on and tend to want a rehashed system of what they are famaliar with.

All those things you claim you cannot do, I can do here np, ie;

If I want Gil, I can grind for it.
If I wan to earn Gil, I can do Leve's for it.
If I want to earn Gil, I can craft for it.
If I want to grind SP, I can group for it OR solo for it.
If I want a challenge during doing Leve's, I can get 14 other people and do it on 5 stars or less depending on numbers in the group.
If I want to craft, I can.
If I want to explore, I can.
If I want to kill stuff, I can.
If I want to try out a different class, all I have to do is get a different weapon.

I can go on and on. Issue here is the community want their hand's held along what ever path they choose to take via multiple quest hubs that lead you from one to the other. This has made lazy players imho both in the aspect of online adventure and community based aspects.



Because getting gild/gold is the main focus of any game, i mean if i cant get gil i cant progress right ?

i dont think the community wants their hand held as much as they want fun stuff to do in the game per say, what content is there in FFXIV thats "Hard" ? Storyline is a joke, leaves are a joke, random mobs kay some can be hard, but mostly they are stupid, plus the random Sp gain <.< killed it for me
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#62 Nov 19 2010 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia
please understand you are drailing the topic.
This isn't about the bad/ lacking content in ffxiv.
It is about the community. mmorpg are more then JUST games. it is also a social network you can play. the game is still new. It will not have epic content this early. epic content comes with lvls. 50 is just a middle point.
If all you want to do is bash ffxiv for lacking content please post in the complaints thread. Not here.
If you have anything to say about the ffxiv community, and improvement feel free to post.
But ostia for the recond you are a good example of a person why is more focused on the content over community. You are possible the type of person who would over look on mmorpg if the focus was community rather then content. That is what WoW brought to the mmo scene. And is killing most mmo that are community focused.
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#63 Nov 19 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll take content over community, anytime.

Content gives us something to build a community ON. Give me a reason to talk about the things we're doing together, and I'll talk.
#64 Nov 19 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Things evolve over time. Just because eq1 and ffxi started as more of a "chat room with something to do" type of MMO, doesn't mean that it was better as a whole. Even those games have evolved to be more content based now. You can get gear in FFXI now that rivals what we used to call endgame gear by joining Abyssea. Which does not require a commitment to the community to accomplish. EQ1 has implemented much more soloable content as well.

Some say WoW ruined the MMO landscape. I say it brought to light what the majority really wanted, content and fun. Sorry but people have spoken with their wallets and proved this for almost 8 years now. The concept of chat room sandbox mmo's has become outdated.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 3:24pm by Ezariel
#65 Nov 19 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Solo content does not encourage community and SE stated that the content will be possible to solo. Therefore community is still discouraged. What needs to be fixed is to make partying easier. Make searching/forming a party easier. Make communication easier. It is very difficult to get a party together outside of a LS due to the bad UI. It needs priority over content. Community is the foundation of MMORPGs, not the content. If you play a MMORPG where its only u and content then that is a console adventure/rpg game.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 3:25pm by Imaboomer
#66 Nov 19 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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Out dated not really.
This is why ffxiv community sucks.

Do yourselves a favor and realise mmorpg are more then just a game. Treat it as other real people play. These are not single player games, so stop acting/ treating like they are. Also this isn't a debare, just trying to find out why things are like they are, and willing to do what I can to improve ffxiv.

Mostly because, I'm not willing pay to play a single player game.
Sorry for the hostile tone, but getting tired of playing mmorpg like a single player game because ppl are unwilling to be social. Content can be added and still people will not socialize.

This is why I dislike WoW, it brought in ppl who don't get how mmorpg are suppose to be. They are too focused on content and soloing it.

Also this not a debate on whats better is a disscussion on why. And what we can do to change it so EVERYONE has fun. And at least limit some of the problems of ffxiv. Work on improving the community or there will never be one.
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#67 Nov 19 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Imaboomer wrote:
Solo content does not encourage community and SE stated that the content will be possible to solo. Therefore community is still discouraged. What needs to be fixed is to make partying easier. Make searching/forming a party easier. Make communication easier. It is very difficult to get a party together outside of a LS due to the bad UI. It needs priority over content. Community is the foundation of MMORPGs, not the content. If you play a MMORPG where its only u and content then that is a console adventure/rpg game.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 3:25pm by Imaboomer

And SE is doing stuff to fix these. :) Actually if you go to lodestone it got mini guides on how to talk/ and form parties. They are simple but if more ppl knew how to use them better it would be. :)
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#68 Nov 19 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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jadyness wrote:
I'll take content over community, anytime.

Content gives us something to build a community ON. Give me a reason to talk about the things we're doing together, and I'll talk.

Wrong.

You don;t need a reason to say:
Hi, how are you.
/wave
Need help?
Have you seen move x?
What music you listen to?
Who is your fav band?
What other games you play?

(all in 85 characters or less)
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#69 Nov 19 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess in the end, these are only just our opinions. We are not experts with the ability to dictate what an MMO should or should not be. We are merely the people that play them. It's up to the development studios to decide what an MMO should be. We can only decide if their vision is something that we want to participate in.
#70 Nov 19 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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315 posts
Ezariel wrote:
I guess in the end, these are only just our opinions. We are not experts with the ability to dictate what an MMO should or should not be. We are merely the people that play them. It's up to the development studios to decide what an MMO should be. We can only decide if their vision is something that we want to participate in.

All mmorpg are the same. massive multiplayer role playing game. Social is part of it.
And in the end, you can have your opinion, but that isn't what topic is about. Sure you have your opinion. But look at what few of us are saying. We want to improve the community, we want mmoropg to go back to the way they were SOCIAL. Also as I said this isn't a topic about which you perfer. It is a topic about why the change, why it needs to be like that, and what can we do to fix it. If you have anything like that to say, feel free to say it.
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#71 Nov 19 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
This is why I dislike WoW, it brought in ppl who don't get how mmorpg are suppose to be. They are too focused on content and soloing it.


This is your opinion. There is no hard set definition of what an MMO should or should not be.

Personally however I am of the opinion that community is an important part. But for many content is needed as an icebreaker. Many don't just go say hi in the real world either. They find a reason to go say hi and involve themselves in that strangers world.

To use the suggestion someone made earlier and apply it to real life lets imagine this.

If I told you to go to your local mall and walk around and make an effort to say hi and start a conversation with 5 people at random, would you actually do it? I doubt it. People would look at you like you were crazy, some might even call security on you.

However if you were to do this at a party and do the same thing it would be considered sociable and normal. A party could be considered "real world content". Going to a bar or club and saying hello is also acceptable, this is also "content".



Edited, Nov 19th 2010 4:04pm by Ezariel
#72 Nov 19 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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315 posts
Ezariel wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
This is why I dislike WoW, it brought in ppl who don't get how mmorpg are suppose to be. They are too focused on content and soloing it.


This is your opinion. There is no hard set definition of what an MMO should or should not be.

Personally however I am of the opinion that community is an important part. But for many content is needed as an icebreaker. Many don't just go say hi in the real world either. They find a reason to go say hi and involve themselves in that strangers world.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 3:52pm by Ezariel

All mmo are the same /sigh. Why would a company make a game that several thousand players can play together.
Logging in is the ice breaker. I never needed a reason to say hi to someone. I just wave.
Social aspect is a set part of an mmo. No matter the mmo, talking is part of it content or otherwise.
Plus SE can add all the content they want and the community will still suck.
But like i said this isn't really a debate on mmo, but a topic to disscuss the why, and was to fix it.
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#73 Nov 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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How to fix it? Add a socially acceptable reason for people to socialize and form a community. Edited post above to equate this to normal real world behavior.
#74 Nov 19 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:

Out dated not really.
This is why ffxiv community sucks.

Do yourselves a favor and realise mmorpg are more then just a game. Treat it as other real people play. These are not single player games, so stop acting/ treating like they are. Also this isn't a debare, just trying to find out why things are like they are, and willing to do what I can to improve ffxiv.


Wow this thread is kind of... Odd. I mean - what makes you folks think that just because you are having a few bad experiences (and interestingly enough those are the same people complaining about having bad community experience in WoW) that there is no community?

Here's what I think is the main issue - people are already more or less grouped up. Entire linkshells packed up and moved as a group. There are probably some solo folks out there, but for the most part people who came from 11, came to 14 already as a part of a team. They already have professional websites, they already have major accomplishments, they already have entire leadership hierarchies. It's not like it was at the dawn of XI where everyone was basically experiencing their first mmo. Just take a look at some of the server forums and you will find stickies already packed with linkshells that migrated to XIV.

Aside from that - not everyone is reaching out for a human connection. Some folks just want to... I don't know.. Play the game. Sure you can make comments like "why play an mmo" or "go play an offline game" but what is it any of your business how someone else enjoys their free time? In fact - if you want to drive away even more subscribers so that SE has to slash budgets and cut into dev costs, go right ahead discouraging anyone who doesn't think exactly like you do from playing.

The whole thing just seems a little silly to me. I don't let my interactions with strangers determine my enjoyment level of a game.
#75 Nov 19 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Ezariel wrote:
How to fix it? Add a socially acceptable reason for people to socialize and form a community. Edited post above to equate this to normal real world behavior.

Well as most will say, mmorpg are not the real world. Take notice i said a list.
You don't need a reason to talk. Try those sometime next you play.

If anyone feels like there needs to be reason to talk in an mmorpg, don't.
There isn't.

If you want to add anything else feel free to do so. But kinda tired of ppl posting who are anti socisl unless there is content.
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#76 Nov 19 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Ezariel wrote:
However if you were to do this at a party and do the same thing it would be considered sociable and normal. A party could be considered "real world content". Going to a bar or club and saying hello is also acceptable, this is also "content".


^^
This.

I'm a fairly outgoing, gregarious person and I like lots of online personalities. I don't usually have a problem with socialising once the ice has been broken. Actually, I prefer to inject a little humor/roleplay into the process of repairing somebody's rings, usually by admonishing them to take care of their grandmother's jewelry. Some respond, some don't.

In the grander sense, I think people online have grown much more wary and jaded about random encounters with nosy strangers. Ask me about what craft level or materials it took to get my armor, I'll happily talk about that. Paddle up out of the blue and launch into a discussion about my musical tastes will either be met with a very vague and non-informational answer or no reply at all. I don't know you enough to share anything personal about me.

Linkshells are very good for simply easing some of the wary off, since if you're in proximity to somebody's online chat personality for awhile, you start feeling you "know" them a little and it makes other, more personal-type conversations possible.

But as for building an FFXIV community, I'm not a big fan of just saying "Go wave at someone and ask how they're doing." It's WAY better to have something concrete to talk about that is strictly game related - you'll have more takers on the conversational gambits. Which leads me back to wishing there was a little more reason to party other than to grind and/or an easier chat system to promote it.
#77 Nov 19 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
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315 posts
Torrence wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:

Out dated not really.
This is why ffxiv community sucks.

Do yourselves a favor and realise mmorpg are more then just a game. Treat it as other real people play. These are not single player games, so stop acting/ treating like they are. Also this isn't a debare, just trying to find out why things are like they are, and willing to do what I can to improve ffxiv.


Wow this thread is kind of... Odd. I mean - what makes you folks think that just because you are having a few bad experiences (and interestingly enough those are the same people complaining about having bad community experience in WoW) that there is no community?

Here's what I think is the main issue - people are already more or less grouped up. Entire linkshells packed up and moved as a group. There are probably some solo folks out there, but for the most part people who came from 11, came to 14 already as a part of a team. They already have professional websites, they already have major accomplishments, they already have entire leadership hierarchies. It's not like it was at the dawn of XI where everyone was basically experiencing their first mmo. Just take a look at some of the server forums and you will find stickies already packed with linkshells that migrated to XIV.

Aside from that - not everyone is reaching out for a human connection. Some folks just want to... I don't know.. Play the game. Sure you can make comments like "why play an mmo" or "go play an offline game" but what is it any of your business how someone else enjoys their free time? In fact - if you want to drive away even more subscribers so that SE has to slash budgets and cut into dev costs, go right ahead discouraging anyone who doesn't think exactly like you do from playing.

The whole thing just seems a little silly to me. I don't let my interactions with strangers determine my enjoyment level of a game.

Look at what you said then figure it out. No one talks outside of there cliques. And Anti social players are ruining the mmo scene. MMorpg are not just games or there is no point in thousands of ppl playing.
But as i now keep having to say, your free to have an opinion, but do really understand what was being said at first. I was trying to figure out why, anto social players play mmo, when content was more importent then the community. And maybe how to fix it. FFXI is still kinda good. Players wave just to be pleasent. WoW not so much, Aion... ppl are rude to you.
Also here my opinon , when an MUD is more social then an mmo with only 100 ppl. There is an issue.
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#78 Nov 19 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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315 posts
jadyness wrote:
Ezariel wrote:
However if you were to do this at a party and do the same thing it would be considered sociable and normal. A party could be considered "real world content". Going to a bar or club and saying hello is also acceptable, this is also "content".


^^
This.

I'm a fairly outgoing, gregarious person and I like lots of online personalities. I don't usually have a problem with socialising once the ice has been broken. Actually, I prefer to inject a little humor/roleplay into the process of repairing somebody's rings, usually by admonishing them to take care of their grandmother's jewelry. Some respond, some don't.

In the grander sense, I think people online have grown much more wary and jaded about random encounters with nosy strangers. Ask me about what craft level or materials it took to get my armor, I'll happily talk about that. Paddle up out of the blue and launch into a discussion about my musical tastes will either be met with a very vague and non-informational answer or no reply at all. I don't know you enough to share anything personal about me.

Linkshells are very good for simply easing some of the wary off, since if you're in proximity to somebody's online chat personality for awhile, you start feeling you "know" them a little and it makes other, more personal-type conversations possible.

But as for building an FFXIV community, I'm not a big fan of just saying "Go wave at someone and ask how they're doing." It's WAY better to have something concrete to talk about that is strictly game related - you'll have more takers on the conversational gambits. Which leads me back to wishing there was a little more reason to party other than to grind and/or an easier chat system to promote it.

Well try it sometime. Don't hurt. I made more friends and talk to more ppl just being pleasent.
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#79 Nov 19 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
Quote:
Look at what you said then figure it out. No one talks outside of there cliques. And Anti social players are ruining the mmo scene. MMorpg are not just games or there is no point in thousands of ppl playing.


But this is my point - you are calling people anti-social when really they just are social within their own circles. Why do we have public schools with thousands of kids going? It's not because we realistically expect each and every child to speak and play with every single other child - it's because it's a good way to provide a centralized experience (in this case, education) in a centralized and controlled location.

The bar analogy? There are people who go there to meet others, and people who go there to have dinner\drinks with people they already know. It doesn't make the latter any less social than the former, it just means that your opportunity to socialize with them is diminished and that's not a failure on the bar's part nor is it a fault of the people in the group. That's just the nature of human interactions. Not everyone is looking for a hookup and it doesn't mean that the system fails or there is something wrong with it - you just need to realize that not everyone will act in the manner that you expect them to just because of the setting\surroundings.
#80 Nov 19 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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165 posts
I'm very pleasant! I helped run a guild for nearly four years with 150 members and it was amazing fun. I socialed like it was 1999.

Quote:
I was trying to figure out why, anto social players play mmo, when content was more importent then the community. And maybe how to fix it.


Possibly because it is, at the core, just a game. And people play the game that looks most interesting to them and the best/most fun out of their available leisure time. Today, that could be Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood or FFXIV. The fact that this particular game is *multiplayer* may possibly be besides the point. It's a game with great graphics and it's full of monsters to beat up and armor to get.

Part of your question may be that you're finding yourself running into a wall where the fact that several thousand people are playing at the same time doesn't have the "awesome" factor it once did, and is not the reason they chose to play it in the first place. For some people that part of it might not even rate at all.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 4:47pm by jadyness
#81 Nov 19 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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109 posts
If you want those anti-social people to change and become social, you need to learn to respect their opinions and learn how to give them reason to change their viewpoint.

Flaming someone and saying they are "wrong! thats not how an MMO is supposed to be!" does nothing to further the community. Pointing out the benefits of having a better community is. Respecting someone's playstyle and finding ways to involve them in yours is a good way. Many of the self righteous need to do some self introspection before this problem can be solved.

Just because someone doesn't like your precious game doesn't mean that they never could if given the proper motivation.
#82Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 10:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i respect you guys opinons, but based on the topic are derailing the thread.
#83 Nov 20 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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165 posts
/scritches head

Okay. i have no idea how I'm derailing a thread who's title is "Content Over Community". You're taking the community part, I'm taking the content part. It's called Debate.

You're basically asking why people aren't talking in MMOs, and specifically in this MMO. My opinion is that because FFXIV 1) lacks an easy chat system and 2) constantly exciting things to talk about, very few are really interested in taking social risks by babbling randomness at strangers. Nobody likes being snubbed. If there was More Fun Stuff To Do, then people would naturally talk more, because there would be something to talk ABOUT and people would be in proximity to each other to do both of those actions.

Your call to "rally around the social flag, guys, and talk about your favorite movie!" isn't very persuasive.
#84 Nov 20 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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353 posts
Correction: there will NEVER be anything to talk about with random people even if there IS something to talk about. Why? Simple- SE designed this game to have tiers and even mixed tiers. Each camp is designed for a certain tier/mixed tier say 10-20~25. There is no central area such as Jueno where there is an actual community. If everyone is spread out across different fields AND the fact that they are there to finish an objective, they will never talk. Chat/community aspect comes from a central area and FFXIV does not have one that unites Uldah,Gridania, and Limsa citizens together.

This is why FFXIV failed to have a community going. There is too much separation amongst players and too many different paths taken by players (some are there to do only leves, others craft, etc.).

Imagine being blind-folded and mouth taped shut and see if u can form a community.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 4:30pm by Imaboomer
#85 Nov 20 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Default
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315 posts
@ Jad
simple put this is not a debate on what IS needed more.
this is not a debate on what you perfer.
this is a discussion about why ppl want content over community or keep choosing it.
And i want to do my part to fix it so community on mmo, more so on ffxiv.
Since community plays a big part. And needing content to talk is stupid. But that is just my opinion.
If you wanna talk about the content complaint thread ( over there )
this topic is not about content, more about the community. I suggest not skiming the OP.
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#86 Nov 20 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
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315 posts
@ im
there are 3 large cities like in ffxi. and ffxi still had a community. its ppl willingness to talk in ffxi that help not jeuno.
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#87 Nov 22 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,606 posts
Irishclass777 wrote:
@ Jad
simple put this is not a debate on what IS needed more.
this is not a debate on what you perfer.
this is a discussion about why ppl want content over community or keep choosing it.
And i want to do my part to fix it so community on mmo, more so on ffxiv.
Since community plays a big part. And needing content to talk is stupid. But that is just my opinion.
If you wanna talk about the content complaint thread ( over there )
this topic is not about content, more about the community. I suggest not skiming the OP.

Why don't you just save all of us some time and tell us what the correct "opinion" for us to have is? People have discussed this with you and been very civil to boot. Apparently none of it is what you want to hear or for people to believe so please let us know what the correct answer/opinion is.

We've covered why some people will find content to be the cornerstone on which community is formed. We've covered how the lack of content or even the trouble that exists with communicating sometimes can be a hindrance to community. What is left that you want to hear? What's the "right" answer that apparently no one except you and a couple others know?

I'm just trying to figure out if you're looking for something specific we have all missed or if you are just trolling now. I'm leaning more towards the trolling part but I'm not sure.
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