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Developers apologize to unhappy players on PCGamerFollow

#1 Nov 17 2010 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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The developers have been making themselves quite visible recently. Another interview is up on PCGamer, with Final Fantasy XIV Producer Hiromichi Tanaka and Global Online Producer Sage Sundi. This dynamic duo has been busy apologizing for the rocky start while promoting all the great additions to come before year's end.

Tanaka and Sundi reflect on the game's release, once again attributing the poor launch to a issue of priorities -- the developers focused on debugging during the beta and meant to implement user requests at a later date. However, they assure us that the opinions and suggestions of users are still important and future updates will be dedicated to using this feedback to build a better gaming experience.

Read the full interview at PCGamer.
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#2 Nov 17 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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As usual, people commenting had a real go on SE even though the excuses are very sound. I'm quite convinced that many people simply want the game to fail... and that's really sad.:(
#3 Nov 17 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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You'll see it here too - a whole bunch of people still whining and kvetching and moaning no matter what SE does. That's their perogative but it has gotten pretty tiresome.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 4:31am by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#4 Nov 17 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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ill be honest at times some of the bugs get me ticked off. (like mobe randmly running around and regening hp sometimes) but over all the game has alot there. once they add some goals like higher end content more ppl will be motavatid to get there and have fun.

one thing i notised alot. unless alot of ppl see big numbers (like damage expicaly with alot of amaricens) they think there toon sucks. i remember this from exp pts in xi.
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#5 Nov 17 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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The language and tone of the interview is one of respect and appreciation. There isn't much else we can ask of the lead developers at this point. I'm impressed with what they've said. It certainly implies they won't be giving up any time soon. Wada put them in a few tight spots with his comments but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Here's hoping!
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#6 Nov 17 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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valeforheya1984 wrote:
ill be honest at times some of the bugs get me ticked off. (like mobe randmly running around and regening hp sometimes)


I get ****** at that too, & then I think about it longer and wonder "What am I really saying here? Am I angry that the mob isn't standing still and letting me kill it quicker?" Then I laugh at myself...
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#7 Nov 17 2010 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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Chnmmr wrote:
As usual, people commenting had a real go on SE even though the excuses are very sound. I'm quite convinced that many people simply want the game to fail... and that's really sad.:(


Olorinus the Vile wrote:
You'll see it here too - a whole bunch of people still whining and kvetching and moaning no matter what SE does. That's their perogative but it has gotten pretty tiresome.


I really don't see it the same way.

1) SE really screwed the FFXIV release up. I think a two month trial extension is proof of that. I mean that is mind-boggling. SE giving 2 months free of anything? Insane. They know they screwed up and ppl have a right to be upset about it. After all the game itself was far from free.

2) SE honestly hasn't done anything yet. So of course people are still "whining and kvetching". Are we supposed to read a list of 'promised' fixes and all of a sudden kiss SE's feet? I happen to not have selective memory and know full well how SE's 'fixes' usually go. Its gonna be long time before everything is smoothed out.

3) People don't want the game to fail. That's just ridiculous. I think you've mistaken a genuine much-deserved backlash for spite. I am happy with the current mood. If people are ******* then SE is more likely to FIX STUFF. And that is what needs to happen for this game to survive.

Overall the interview was a little meh. Tanaka was extremely evasive about whether FFXIV was released too early even though the PCGamer guys did their job and pressed him on it. The only thing that bugged me was the comparison to WoW, I mean why did they have to go there? It was just silly. I would have rather them asked why each button press takes 2-5 seconds and why they thought it was acceptable to release the game with XYZ specific issues. "We wanted people to enjoy sooner" Great answer Tanaka. *rolls eyes*

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 7:58am by rikkuotaku
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#8 Nov 17 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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rikkuotaku wrote:


1) SE really screwed the FFXIV release up. I think a two month trial extension is proof of that. I mean that is mind-boggling. SE giving 2 months free of anything? Insane. They know they screwed up and ppl have a right to be upset about it. After all the game itself was far from free.


Yeah, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that they botched the release. So what is your point? They're giving us three months free play time. So you think that is a good reason to bash them more - or proof that they and the game deserves more bashing? Because they said they were sorry and tried to make amends - we should use this as "proof" of why we are justified beating dead horses?

In my world when someone makes and apologies and takes action to make amends - it's time to let bygones be bygones.

rikkuotaku wrote:

2) SE honestly hasn't done anything yet. So of course people are still "whining and kvetching". Are we supposed to read a list of 'promised' fixes and all of a sudden kiss SE's feet? I happen to not have selective memory and know full well how SE's 'fixes' usually go. Its gonna be long time before everything is smoothed out.


I didn't suggest anyone should kiss SE's feet, did I? No. I don't even expect you to believe that the HIGHLY DETAILED update plans they have released are anything but a ruse to keep you playing while the game is free. It would be nice,however, if people saved their complaints for after SE fails to come through instead of beating the dead horse before it even arrives.



Edited, Nov 17th 2010 5:02am by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#9 Nov 17 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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rikkuotaku wrote:


3) People don't want the game to fail. That's just ridiculous. I think you've mistaken a genuine much-deserved backlash for spite. I am happy with the current mood. If people are ******* then SE is more likely to FIX STUFF. And that is what needs to happen for this game to survive.



I've been up all night with insomnia so my will to do anything complex (like searching the site for exact quotes) is depleted. That said - NUMEROUS posters have EXPLICITLY said that they want the game to fail. One even went so far as to say he is only on these boards at all to watch the game go down and laugh at the fanbois as it does (I am paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

So no, not ridiculous at all.

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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#10 Nov 17 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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The people complaining in the comment section on PCGamer are flaming literally everything and everyone. People who haven't even bought the game are criticizing XIV. I don't think they serve as an accurate pulse of the community.

Quote:
3) People don't want the game to fail. That's just ridiculous. I think you've mistaken a genuine much-deserved backlash for spite.
There are of course spiteful recluses living on the internet hating on XIV hoping that it fails. A site like PCGamer is going to have a lot more of them than the FFXIV Zam forums will because everyone who visits this site at one point wanted to play the game, unlike the flamers at PCGamer. I'd like to think we stick to more constructive criticism than the "FFXIII sucked, FFXIV sucks, I'm never buying another SE product again" attitude that is prevailing in the comment section of that interview.
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#11 Nov 17 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Xclusive215 (on the Zam) wrote:
After wasting $80 and being so dissapointed with this game in it's current state, I think the only pleasure I might get now, is watching this game crash and burn. That would bring my opinions validation and closure. Hey at least I'm honest right??? Just trying to get my moneys worth. Instead of looking forward to the magical update/patch.. I will be one of the people saying "I told you so"..
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#12 Nov 17 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Default
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Here's what I got from the interview:

"a lot of these things are basic gameplay elements."

Exactly. Forget about the bugs, some of the DESIGN elements of this game were horrible from the start.

"If we had more time, we probably would have had to fix more bugs, and so it was very difficult to judge which time to release the game, because we want people to enjoy it as soon as possible. That’s why we made the decision to release it now."

LOL They knew it was crap, but they released it for the "FANS". Maybe now, they realize, they've ****** off a lot of potential customers. Every thing they do for the next few months will be "damage control".

"Do you think any design issues could’ve been avoided if you’d played other MMOs?"

Yeah, one of these days I should post a list of all the design flaws. They keep saying they spent all this time debugging, when in fact, they should have been re-designing.

"We think more transparency is something very important between the development team and the players."

I have my doubts, as to weather or not they follow through on this one.

"That’s something you will notice that’ll be different, so people will be experiencing more exciting party plays."

I call BS on this. Their decision to make parties "dumb down" in order to maximize SP gains, is perhaps the games biggest design flaw.

"If it was unlimited, the players who have a lot of time can keep on doing them and get a high level really quickly."

WTF are they smoking? I get crap xp /sp from leves. There's no fcking way I'd get to lvl 50 doing leves, unless maybe I was a CRAFTER, cuz this game is all about CRAFTIN.

"Basically that’s the difference. WoW was designed a few years ago, before FFXI. FFXIV is designed with the latest graphical technology; that’s why it costs that much of memory data."

Maybe they should have applied that mentality to the gameplay mechanics, and not just the graphics.


Bottom line: The team working on FFXIV are a bunch of idiots.




#13 Nov 17 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Bottom line: The team working on FFXIV are a bunch of idiots.


I certainly know one idiot.
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#14 Nov 17 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I've been up all night with insomnia so my will to do anything complex (like searching the site for exact quotes) is depleted. That said - NUMEROUS posters have EXPLICITLY said that they want the game to fail. One even went so far as to say he is only on these boards at all to watch the game go down and laugh at the fanbois as it does (I am paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

So no, not ridiculous at all.


You're not referring to the thread from this forum, are you? Because that was a while back and most of those people have not been actively posting since.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 Nov 17 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Does SE have a history with XI of not following through with updates that they've announced? I can't remember it really happening, not that I always paid attention to the parts that didn't affect my gameplay.
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#16 Nov 17 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Does SE have a history with XI of not following through with updates that they've announced? I can't remember it really happening, not that I always paid attention to the parts that didn't affect my gameplay.


There have been a few occasions where announced updates were scrapped, but usually in the long term. The more frequent trend is that they release it later than announced, and it's extremely common for the update to be broken in some way (bugged or insignificant, usually).
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#17 Nov 17 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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O.O

Well color me impressed. Most of the SE interviews I've seen blame anything else they can, but this time they admitted their mistakes and gave very straight-forward answers. They seemed honest and polite and apologetic. I gotta say they earned some of my respect back with this interview.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 8:49am by SickleSageKiroh
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#18 Nov 17 2010 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Does SE have a history with XI of not following through with updates that they've announced? I can't remember it really happening, not that I always paid attention to the parts that didn't affect my gameplay.


Occasionally they delay a specific part of an update, like Dynamis-Tavnazia, Pankration, Einherjar update, etc.

At the start of ToAU they announced their timeline and what they were planning on implementing in that time, but it didn't go as they thought it would (it worked for few updates, then the schedule became unaccurate).

They don't promise anything they won't be able to add, but they tend to be quite vague in their wording (for obvious reasons) and quite often player expectations don't meet with the reality.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#19 Nov 17 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, I think its just really hard for people to actually leave it alone for the 6 months its projected to take to get things back on track. Even when things are better, people will still be bitter and feel owed for it. I'm not saying I completely disagree, SE doesn't deserve to be let off the hook for it all, people shouldn't just buy whatever they say at this point and subscribe anyways and pay monthly fees while we're only seeing promises. However the time spent now trying to prove SE is in the wrong, and make them admit whatever is long gone, now its time to use the situation they are in, to try and mold the game into something players want. Really though I think SE is too far behind, and if you gave them a genius idea to fix the market wards for example, they wouldn't even get to reading it for months.
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#20 Nov 17 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Does SE have a history with XI of not following through with updates that they've announced? I can't remember it really happening, not that I always paid attention to the parts that didn't affect my gameplay.


There have been a few occasions where announced updates were scrapped, but usually in the long term. The more frequent trend is that they release it later than announced, and it's extremely common for the update to be broken in some way (bugged or insignificant, usually).


Yeah but when has FFXI been so publicly disliked and in such a dire situation that FFXIV is? For whatever reason they made those decisions with FFXI, I really doubt they can do the same thing with FFXIV when they are trying to regain the trust of the playerbase after such a shoddy launch. I guess we'll see in the coming weeks but i'd still be damned surprised to see almost everything promised not implemented.

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#21 Nov 17 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
rikkuotaku wrote:


1) SE really screwed the FFXIV release up. I think a two month trial extension is proof of that. I mean that is mind-boggling. SE giving 2 months free of anything? Insane. They know they screwed up and ppl have a right to be upset about it. After all the game itself was far from free.


Yeah, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that they botched the release. So what is your point? They're giving us three months free play time. So you think that is a good reason to bash them more - or proof that they and the game deserves more bashing? Because they said they were sorry and tried to make amends - we should use this as "proof" of why we are justified beating dead horses?

In my world when someone makes and apologies and takes action to make amends - it's time to let bygones be bygones.

rikkuotaku wrote:

2) SE honestly hasn't done anything yet. So of course people are still "whining and kvetching". Are we supposed to read a list of 'promised' fixes and all of a sudden kiss SE's feet? I happen to not have selective memory and know full well how SE's 'fixes' usually go. Its gonna be long time before everything is smoothed out.


I didn't suggest anyone should kiss SE's feet, did I? No. I don't even expect you to believe that the HIGHLY DETAILED update plans they have released are anything but a ruse to keep you playing while the game is free. It would be nice,however, if people saved their complaints for after SE fails to come through instead of beating the dead horse before it even arrives.



Edited, Nov 17th 2010 5:02am by Olorinus


Olorinus I think you are very correct in your ideology here, SE is doing everything they can to make amends. Its a straight up and honest approach.

Saying hey players we understand the game is bare at this point and we worked on other things, so this is why the game is the way it is. To appease you the player we say sorry and enjoy what's there now at no extra charge except the client software.

I like the approach and considering the update notes for the version update I am really stoked to see what happens in the next few months. I have taken time away from the game to enjoy with family and friends because this works out nicely for me. However, even my fiancée knows once the patches are done I'll be spending more time in XIV.

Great comments and post Olorinus, I really appreciate your approach.
#22 Nov 17 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Default
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wasnt this allready posted. why do admins take other ppls posts lock them and claim them as their own... just like the 11/15 post abt the beginners guide someone made that b4 a admin too but the admins love to lock thiers and claim it as their own.. trying to make it look like there on top of things like they found it first

its sickening

original posted 2 days before this
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1289884755156813428&page=1

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 8:29am by Galkaholics
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#23 Nov 17 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Galkaholics wrote:
but the admins love to lock thiers and claim it as their own.. trying to make it look like there on top of things like they found it first

its sickening

original posted 2 days before this
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1289884755156813428&page=1

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 8:29am by Galkaholics


That original thread isn't locked.
#25 Nov 17 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I hate to agree but he's kinda right - this was posted a few days back.

As far as some of the comments about people wanting the game to crash and burn - one post, by one person, in the how many hundreds who post here? I don't even recognize the name - I doubt he is a regular. What thread did you pull that out of?

At any rate - I would rather see action than words. All the interviews in the world don't change the fact that instead of doing weekly small patches and at least accomplishing *something* in all this time, they have hidden behind this phantom *mega-patch* we have been hearing rumors of since alpha, and we haven't actually *seen* anything.

When we see this phantom patch and can evaluate what they have accomplished with it, then we can decide. Until then, well it's all just words.
#26 Nov 17 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Galkaholics wrote:


Look at the differences in those 2 threads though. While the "more official" one with all the fancy text & pictures was being finished, the other one did sneak in there before it. Then it got locked, bummer. Pikko made a post in one of the threads about locking the one with the least responses, not which came first. Not that it really matters either way...I did one about the music Making of a Realm, 10 minutes later a new one came up and got all the action, mine got locked....no big deal...

In the case of this thread vs. the much older one, like Geffe mentioned, it isn't locked. Not all, but a lot of people will probably choose to view an admin's thread over another in most cases...

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 9:57am by TwistedOwl
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#27 Nov 17 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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One thing I will say for SE and FFXIV: for as much as I ***** about games being pushed back (e.g. Portal 2) or games where devs refuse to provide a release date beyond "When it's ready, that's when" (Diablo 3, Mirror's Edge 2), I have grown a new appreciation for devs who are willing to tell their fans and customers "Not yet. It's not done."

I get the notion of wanting your fans to play the game early, but don't do it at the expense of making them pay for an unfinished product.

I'm still hopeful about the upcoming patches.
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#28 Nov 17 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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rikkuotaku wrote:
Chnmmr wrote:
As usual, people commenting had a real go on SE even though the excuses are very sound. I'm quite convinced that many people simply want the game to fail... and that's really sad.:(



Lots of whining yes, its like people dont even think that the patches promised are real, which is ridiculous in and of itself. They are real and they are comming these things take time. All that debugging they did during beta needs to be done to this new content and pfixes also. Time is needed Always more time.


Olorinus the Vile wrote:
You'll see it here too - a whole bunch of people still whining and kvetching and moaning no matter what SE does. That's their perogative but it has gotten pretty tiresome.


rikkuotaku wrote:
[quote=Chnmmr]
2) SE honestly hasn't done anything yet. So of course people are still "whining and kvetching". Are we supposed to read a list of 'promised' fixes and all of a sudden kiss SE's feet? I happen to not have selective memory and know full well how SE's 'fixes' usually go. Its gonna be long time before everything is smoothed out.


Sigh.. Really? They have done alot actually just because its behind the scenes doesnt mean that it isnt being done. TEsting and redesign and testing is always necessary. REleaseing buggy new content on the fly is unprofessional and would just auce more negative backlash. They are doing it the right way and taking their time. The two extentions of the free trial are a VERY generous we are sorry , more then adequate.

Trickling out updates makes any developer look bad. Even Blizzard doesnt do this they always release a large batch of updates and fixes/tweaks, sure they are a little bit more transparent but what do you want SE to do more? Post a webcam of the developers in a sweat shop with guns pointed at them and people slapping them around while they code?? Of course not.

Thanks for reading.



Edited, Nov 17th 2010 10:58am by cornyboob

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 10:59am by cornyboob

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 11:00am by cornyboob
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#29 Nov 17 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
One thing I will say for SE and FFXIV: for as much as I ***** about games being pushed back (e.g. Portal 2) or games where devs refuse to provide a release date beyond "When it's ready, that's when" (Diablo 3, Mirror's Edge 2), I have grown a new appreciation for devs who are willing to tell their fans and customers "Not yet. It's not done."

I get the notion of wanting your fans to play the game early, but don't do it at the expense of making them pay for an unfinished product.

I'm still hopeful about the upcoming patches.


I'm right there with you, as painful as it would have been to wait it doesn't compare to the disappointment of getting a half finished product. I hope SE is learning from all of this, and just to add, I wasn't that impressed with the interview, some of the answers even seemed to imply that it was the fault of the fans for expecting too much from the game.

But it does seem like they're learning, it will be a slow process as they are slapped back to reality by the collective hand of the community.
#30 Nov 17 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I get the notion of wanting your fans to play the game early, but don't do it at the expense of making them pay for an unfinished product.


I've Alpha'd, Beta'd and Gamma'd a bunch of MMOs in my time, and looking back, I'd question if any of them were a "Finished Product" at release. Granted, FFXIV was a bit more bare than any of recent note, but it's all about the release scenario. Every game wants to be the WoW killer, and being poised to put out a well-followed franchise installment at a time when WoW satisfaction is at a valley rather than a hill seems like sound logic to me, and apparently SE marketing agrees.

Few people are going to be subbed to multiple MMOs at one time, and stalling release for 3 months means that Cataclysm is out, and all the people who were previously disillusioned with WoW have shiny new toys and quests and levels to undertake... so if you want to jump in and potentially wrestle some of the Blizz subscription base away, you release early with something that shows a lot of promise, and fix it as you go. Do I wish the game were a bit (a lot) more polished on release? You bet. Still, releasing some eye-candy in an established franchise with promises of grandeur before WoW can reel back in their dissenters was a great idea on paper. The terrible reviews, publicity, and outright cutthroat community outrage isn't helping things, but I think they're on the timeline to have a decent title and a reversal of opinions well before Cataclysm goes live. Every game has growing pains, some more than others... but I hold firm to the hope that this one turns out to be great. :)
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#31 Nov 17 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Does SE have a history with XI of not following through with updates that they've announced? I can't remember it really happening, not that I always paid attention to the parts that didn't affect my gameplay.


No, SE's history is more insidious than that. In FFXI they responded to player feedback with vague, evasive answers but firmly stated they would address the issue in the patch at X time of the year. Patch comes, the 'issue' is 'addressed' with changes that are incomprehensible and completely useless and SE claims moral victory because they fixed it and shove the issue to the bottom of their priority list where it stays there for the next 3+ years.

Perfect example is Summoner. They stated summoner would be receiving new summons that would be 'very large' in size (at the time summoner had been without any love for almost 4 years and it was kind of annoying to have our summons be just slightly taller than elvaans and less effective than a taru with a raging hangover) and would 'greatly impact', 'improve' the summoner's role in parties and solo.

2 years later SE gives SMN 2 avatars which can only be called using your 2-hour ability, are in the game world for 30 seconds and their attacks and buffs are /random effect and accuracy.

Then we see many other so called 'fixes' such as the melee DD's not being able to take on powerful mobs without significant support (which was an issue while IN a party and it was an issue of accuracy only..this was hammered into SE telling them that even with all possible buffs in the game some mobs were extremely hard to hit with melee and were almost completely immune to magic damage). SE's 'fix': give melees massive increase in damage output (not accuracy) which utterly screwed up the entire game mechanics and made parties turn from being balanced support/damage/debuff roles to purely 5X melee DD's + 1 healer. No other party setup was valid after that patch and it started the spiraling death of FFXI party play.

there are many more examples of SE doing really retarded things to solve the simplest of problems.

I dont want this game to fail but I fear that SE no longer has the capability to process or understand what gaming is about. They write great storylines put great art in their games but gameplay design? They lost that some time ago. The constant string of flopped and failed games since squaresoft staff left them is proof enough of that.
#32 Nov 17 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
One thing I will say for SE and FFXIV: for as much as I ***** about games being pushed back (e.g. Portal 2) or games where devs refuse to provide a release date beyond "When it's ready, that's when" (Diablo 3, Mirror's Edge 2), I have grown a new appreciation for devs who are willing to tell their fans and customers "Not yet. It's not done."

I get the notion of wanting your fans to play the game early, but don't do it at the expense of making them pay for an unfinished product.


This.
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#33 Nov 17 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Default
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Developers apologize to unhappy players on PCGamer


Bologna I say. And SE is really slicing it and slicing it thick. If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are disatisifed.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:23pm by lurex
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#34 Nov 17 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
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If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are disatisifed.


So SE would have to pay for your stupidity?

Let me laugh. No, wait, it's so absurd it's not even funny.
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#35 Nov 17 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are disatisifed.


So SE would have to pay for your stupidity?

Let me laugh. No, wait, it's so absurd it's not even funny.



You are missing my point, and no reason to be sarcastic. The point is that they are apologizing to players for their total fail of a game. If they really were sorry, they would offer a refund of the purchase price. I was not "stupid" as you call it when I purchased this game. I paid for a Cake and got the batter. So from a business standpoint, they are the stupid ones for releasing it half baked and then saying "I'm sorry". I still stand behind what I originally wrote.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:30pm by lurex

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:32pm by lurex
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#36 Nov 17 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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lurex wrote:
Quote:
Developers apologize to unhappy players on PCGamer


Bologna I say. And SE is really slicing it and slicing it thick. If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are disatisifed.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:23pm by lurex


Now you're just getting greedy. Two additional free months of service is more than enough of a financial apology.

You bought the game knowing it was being rushed through beta prematurely. And if you didn't know then it's again your fault for not properly researching a product before buying it. I've bought many crappy video games on impulse before and never did I think the developers owed me a refund. I saw it as my mistake for not researching the game prior to buying it.
#37 Nov 17 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I decided to take a risk at a local restaurant and order something I normally don't like because of the hype around the dish. I didn't like it. I want my money back!

Seriously, the world doesn't work like that.
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#38 Nov 17 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
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All that I said was: IF THEY ARE TRULY SORRY, THEY WOULD OFFER A REFUND OF THE ORIGINAL PURCHASE. HOW IS THAT GREEDY??? If I'm greedy, then SE is a THIEF because they took my hard earned money for an incomplete product.
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#39 Nov 17 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
I decided to take a risk at a local restaurant and order something I normally don't like because of the hype around the dish. I didn't like it. I want my money back!

Seriously, the world doesn't work like that.


True, but if the Owner of the Restaurant heard you were dissatised and wanted to apologize to you for dislike of the dish, do you think refunding your money or offering you a coupon for another dish would be a "TRUE" apology?
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#40 Nov 17 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of agree, if the game had been for PS3 or Xbox and on a disk, it could have been returned with no issue at all. Sucks that PC games work this way when they really don't have to.
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#41 Nov 17 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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lurex wrote:
Quote:
Developers apologize to unhappy players on PCGamer


Bologna I say. And SE is really slicing it and slicing it thick. If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are dissatisfied.



I'd have to agree with the other posters that this is way off base. We get two months of free time. If you are going to end up playing, then good, you were going to buy the client sooner or later. If all these fixes are implemented, and you don't end up liking the game, well then it's a failed investment. It happens, such is life. Refunding everyone in full is unrealistic from every reasonable standpoint.
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#42 Nov 17 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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You can't use a restaurant analogy to compare FFXIV to food. Yes if my food was not finished, or not cooked I'd send it back or ask for a refund.

Now x company makes a game that costs 5 million in development costs, you buy it for 49.99, you're happy.

Then y company makes an offline game that costs 45 million in development, it sucks horribly and has some of the worst design decisions ever. I have never heard of getting a refund on a bad offline game, have you? You may think you deserve a refund, and you may well do deserve one, but you won't. You paid for their development costs, they "may" decide to patch the problems later.

Then SQEnix makes an online MMO, FFXIV and costs 45 million in development, you buy it for 49.99 but it was unfinished content, and poor game design. Same scenario as above.

QQ more but wake up to reality.
#43 Nov 17 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, had it been y company and you didn't know their production quality you might have waited till reviews and saved yourself the hassle.

But if SQEnix screws you and you pre-ordered that's still your fault. Ya SQEnix ftl, but not much you can do about it. Should have waited for reviews...


I on the other hand have a decent pay and looking back at their past games, I don't mind supporting SQEnix and their development costs with 49.99. I also enjoy FFXIV to a limited degree, they're giving me 3 months free too, which is not bad for a MMO.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:59pm by SyniteonReflux
#44 Nov 17 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:

So SE would have to pay for your stupidity?

Let me laugh. No, wait, it's so absurd it's not even funny.


Why do you continue to call people who were expecting a finished product "stupid"?

The restaurant analogy isn't quite correct - a better one would be "I ordered medium-well Prime Rib and it came to my plate uncooked, I am not satisfied with paying for medium-well Prime Rib and I don't want to wait for it to be taken back to the kitchen and get cooked. I want to return the entire thing, get a refund, and spend my money on something else."

This isn't a question of people not "liking" the game, this is really a question of people being dissatisfied with an incomplete product and due to the nature of MMOs have no way to return it for a refund. Nowhere in any of the posts have I seen anyone say they just didn't "like" it without a reason directly relating to things in the game that are unfinished and broken (as admitted by the devs themselves).

I personally am not making a big fuss over spending the 80 bucks on CE because if nothing else, it *looks* pretty on my shelf and I may play the game in the future, but I can see how some folks who actually aren't coming back would feel like three months of free play isn't really worthwhile. Some people really aren't coming back.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 1:00pm by Torrence
#45 Nov 17 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I was not "stupid" as you call it when I purchased this game. I paid for a Cake and got the batter.


If that is not stupid, then what is? You, willingly, paid for a Cake to get a batter.

Actually, you thought it was cake but did not bother checking what's inside the package. You blindly trusted that because there is the bakery logo in the product there would be a cake inside. Yet the bakery even gave you a free sample of the nearly-finished so called "cake" to see what it's Really like and you still decided to go for it and make the purchase.

And the bakery should give you a refund for that?

Quote:
Why do you continue to call people who were expecting a finished product "stupid"?


Because you went and paid for the product simply based on your "expectations". Nobody told you to do it. Nobody forced you. You were given a free sample of said product. The company didn't even market the game to be anything more than it was. Why should they give you a refund for acting irrationally?

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 9:13pm by Hyanmen
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#46 Nov 17 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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This interview was brought up today in a question asked to GiantBomb.com's founder, Jeff Gerstmann, on a video answer website he uses earlier today.

http://vyou.com/a/16073

I like his insight, although I am one of those "bad people" lol.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 1:26pm by aeshmak
#47 Nov 17 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:

I personally am not making a big fuss over spending the 80 bucks on CE because if nothing else, it *looks* pretty on my shelf and I may play the game in the future, but I can see how some folks who actually aren't coming back would feel like three months of free play isn't really worthwhile. Some people really aren't coming back.


Huh. Fact is every single one of us has at one time or another bought a book or comic we didn't end up liking, or an admission to a movie or a concert that sucked - or whatever. That's just life. I would be shocked to hear of people actually getting their money back simply because whatever they bought wasn't to their taste. (For whatever reason)

Face it, not liking the product that you bought isn't a good enough reason to get a refund. If I buy a box of chocolates and eat three of them, and decide I don't like them - TOO BAD. No grocery store is going to give me a refund. Is this seriously the first game anyone has bought and not liked?

I've bought a number of games that I ended up playing twice and having no interest in ever again. It happens sometimes.

SE didn't advertise at all. They even had an open beta which was pretty much the same as we have now (though what we have now is better). How on earth can people think they are somehow entitled to a refund? SE didn't promise you anything more than what you got.

You bought the tux. You wore it to your wedding. It's too late to return it because you don't like the cuffs.



Edited, Nov 17th 2010 10:32am by Olorinus
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#48 Nov 17 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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I like that the PC Gamer interviewer asked the tough questions. However, I think he should have probed deeper on the terrain copy + paste issue. The devs response was that the terrain objects in FFXIV are more detailed than older MMO's like WoW, so they had to save space by reusing geometry. Basically they are saying that graphical demands have gone up, while the limitations on disk space have remained the same.

I personally would prefer more variety over extreme detail in the landscapes. Even still, I don't see the landscapes in FFXIV as extremely high-detail. I would be happy with FFXI quality terrains, and FFXIV quality character models.
#49 Nov 17 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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I would be happy with FFXI quality terrains, and FFXIV quality character models.


That's an opposite for me. XI character models still look pretty awesome, in HD. The areas are so outdated though.
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#50 Nov 17 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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lurex wrote:
Quote:
Developers apologize to unhappy players on PCGamer


Bologna I say. And SE is really slicing it and slicing it thick. If they are TRULY sorry, they would offer a refund of the software purchase for those who are disatisifed.

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:23pm by lurex

Actually, technically, you have already received a 35% discount in the box price of the game in free playtime now. It's not quite the same thing, but fundamentally, Square Enix has already given a partial refund to it's players.
#51thehellfire, Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 1:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They need to apologize to the real fans for extending free trial peruiod twice, since we have to deal with the haters yet another month.
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