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The Impossible Task Of LevelingFollow

#52 Nov 19 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
many people keep saying how there's no reason to cap when endgame is nonexistent.
there's actually one really important reason:
when endgame quests/nms/etc do become available, only those select few who've reached cap will be able to participate. meaning they will obtain all the endgame items ahead of everybody else and have less players to compete with
#53 Nov 19 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Fortunately by the time those become available the SP needed to cap will long have been reduced, and the SP gained from battles will long have been increased. So I guess you just have to decide whether you want to work harder to hit the cap or not. /shrug
#54 Nov 19 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Eh, I tend to agree that playing 5 hours every day represents a deficiency somewhere in your life. Maybe there are some exceptions, but they're probably not for those with families and full-time jobs.

Five hours every day is a bit extreme for anyone, if for no other reason than it just isn't healthy. It's a long time to be unproductive, unsociable, and sedentary. 35 hours a week is practically a second full time job of that crap.

And that may be ok for some people, but it shouldn't be tuned so that that goal is difficult even when that kind of playtime is the norm.


Isn't that where fatigue comes in?

Anyways - why is everyone arguing over this crap? I probably played 5 hours a day in High School on FFXI, because well, let's face it - you have no responsibilities in HS, I did that even with a job and hanging out with friends.

Now 8 years later, of course I don't have time to play 5 hours a day (usually) but I may go a day without playing, then play for a 5 hour period, who are you to say it's not healthy? What if you work all day outside, then spend 5 hours sitting around playing, do you spend 8 hours a day working in an office? The example is less sedentary than you.

I could play 5 hours a day, work 9 to 5, workout and be in better shape than most people who don't play games at all, so I fail to see this "unhealthy" crap. There's no chance of me ever being at a point in my life anytime soon where I want/have time to play 5 hours a day 7 days a week, but I could see myself getting close to that number at some point during lulls in goings-on in real life, but then again I play with my significant other, and most of my real life friends that no longer live within proximity of me - how un-social of me.

Also - last I checked, one of the things that makes humans, well... human is our ability to enjoy entertainment and be unproductive, if you have the time and money to enjoy yourself, by all means do so - certainly I'd criticize someone if they were living on welfare in a dilapidated house playing FFXIV, but you should not ***ume everyone is an extreme edge case.
#55 Nov 19 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
What's at the cap?

That's the question. What is it that people think is going to be there for them when they arrive? What's the goal? Why the rush? If you can't enjoy the process, grinding to the cap isn't going to change anything for you. It almost seems like someone would be better off trying a different class that they might actually enjoy playing and then they can focus on the process instead of grinding to the cap doing something they don't enjoy just so they can be at the cap. I don't really enjoy Conjurer or Thaumaturge at all and motivating myself to push them both to 20 isn't easy, but it's a short-term goal that won't result in dozens upon dozens of hours of abject boredom. And when they're at 20 I can go back to Gladiator...a class I do enjoy quite a lot...and continue working towards the cap.

I learned a long time ago that the carrot always tastes like sh*t when you finally reach it if the process of getting to it wasn't fun. And if you're just chasing it for the sake of saying you got to it and there's nothing more to it, it's doubly pointless. The game is being worked on and the details are being fleshed out, but I'd say we're still a solid 6+ months away from anything even remotely resembling an endgame scene.


+1
#56 Nov 19 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the "unhealthy" comments are more aligned with mental health than physical fitness or living a sedentary lifestyle.

The average American has the TV on for 6 hours, 47 minutes per day. I could make a pretty good argument that playing XIV is a more "healthy" use of your time then watching TV passively. At least it's somewhat social (albeit devoid of any actual spontaneous face-to-face human interaction).

That being said, I think 6 hours and 47 minutes of anything is excessive ><

Unless it's watching reruns of Charles in Charge, then it's not enough.
#57 Nov 19 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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thejones wrote:
I think the "unhealthy" comments are more aligned with mental health than physical fitness or living a sedentary lifestyle.

The average American has the TV on for 6 hours, 47 minutes per day. I could make a pretty good argument that playing XIV is a more "healthy" use of your time then watching TV passively. At least it's somewhat social (albeit devoid of any actual spontaneous face-to-face human interaction).

That being said, I think 6 hours and 47 minutes of anything is excessive ><

Unless it's watching reruns of Charles in Charge, then it's not enough.


Studies have also shown that video gaming increases cognitive and critical thinking skills, as well as hand-to-eye coordination. People are always quick to call playing video game "unproductive" without taking into account that, unlike t.v. for example, video games are an interactive hobby. You don't just sit there watching the screen.

Look at all the people in mmos who sit and do all the little calculations to get the .000001% more out of their character than others. Many of these people indeed learn more mathematics in daily gameplay than they did in school. Not to mention the lessons that a person can learn about economics in an mmo can be directly applied to a real life economy.

And as far as the social aspect? I can socialize with more people from all over the world in 5 hours of gaming than many of these so-called "normal" people will ever meet in their entire lives. I have learned more about the people and cultures of the world I live in by playing with people from all over the world in mmos than I ever learned in "social studies".



Edited, Nov 19th 2010 10:29pm by Zorvan
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#58 Nov 20 2010 at 3:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Eh, I wouldn't be so quick with that. I'm not really up for a lengthy discussion about it right now, but the problem with 5 hours a day in the same game are that you're really not getting much diversity in your experiences. The fact that you are "doing something" rather than simply watching does bring it up to the level of television watching, but doesn't necessarily go far beyond that. It depends on what you watch, just like it depends on what you play, but watching television can be far more enriching that playing a game in light of the literal window to the world that it can be.

Really, I think the keys to healthy leisure time are physical activity, mental activity, and a variety of them. Playing the same game for 5 hours a day certainly isn't the worst use of leisure time, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it healthy.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#59 Nov 20 2010 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I had a whole long post thought up with evidence and insight as to how i've came to my conclusion but i'm a little distracted by the daily show so this is all i'm gonna say.

1. The curve will probably be relaxed as the game progresses, I doubt they want the pc crowd completely overshadowing the ps3 community. They also probably don't want higher level players constantly waiting for new content as they finish it earlier than expected. They've already relaxed the curve once.

2. Casual players are expected to do the leve's and then do a bit of soloing/gathering/crafting. There is plenty of things to do that any 2 hour a day player can accomplish without the need to gather a lot of players, however most people playing an MMO will expect group play, therefor don't expect any long term content to be done on your own.

Its gonna be tough to go out of your way to spend time soloing. I think casuals will have plenty to do and once they get comfortable they'll be more than willing to participate in linkshell/guild/party related activities.

Considering ffxi your fears are well founded. But i wouldn't get too upset cause i'm a casual player and doing my daily leve's has made it really easy for me to get to 23 without much effort in the past 2 months. I started breaking into party play and ffxiv's mechanics really lend its self just too well for party play.

This was longer than i thought, oh well I hope i could provide a somewhat useful response to a reasonable discussion such as this.
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