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How Skill Point gain is workingFollow

#1 Nov 17 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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If you are like most people who enjoy this game level has you pulling out your hair here is why...

During combat normal the following happens,

You hit monster for damage
You gain 50 skill points archer
Monster hits you
You hit monster for damage
Monster hits you
You hit monster for damage
You gain 50 skill points archer
Monster dies
You gain 60 experiance points
You gain 100 archer points.

Thats the standard combat log we see. The problem is with the word gain being used over and over again. If you can't tell by the very simple example here I didn't just get 200 archer skill points. I actual only gained 100. The end amount written is a total.

You gain 60 experiance points.
You gain 100 Archer skill points ,

should we worded as ...
You gained 100 total archer points.

So two thing are happened here. By killing a monster with no skill point gains during combat you get "0" points. Ever killed a red of all things and got nothing? Yes thats why. If you recieved no gains in the combat you get nothing. The other thing happening is monster by there nature are worth nothing ..... That red you just soloed quick isn't worth anything for just killing it. I think that is the main problem right now. If I craft its worth something by the very nature of trying. However fighting isn't worth anything per say. So how the skill point system works is the random gain you get during combat. Its also why tradtional grind seems almost pointless at time and why damage shield and even increased damage hurts you. The con of a monster effect the amount of skill point gains possible but not a lump sum you automaticly given at the end of combat.

#2 Nov 17 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure the "more damage is a bad thing" theory is valid, especially after level 20. It seems like the only times I get good skillups on my THM are when I have all my goodies popped and smack a mob in the several hundred damage range. Not EVERY time, mind you, but when I do get skillups on a regular scourge it's like 30-50 points, and when I get skillups on a Profundity/Blood Rite scourge, I tend to get around 200. Also, there is DEFINITELY a huge correlation between the condition of your weapon and your skillup potential.

Still, I wish they'd grant a per/mob SP with some sort of bonus system in place. Getting 0 sp for a mob really miffs me. :(
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#3 Nov 17 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps the devs will tell us one day how SP is gained. It is very random and does suck killing a mob and getting nothing. I've tried various things on my archer but nothing consistent as to what yields more or less.
#4 Nov 17 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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We are penalized for killing efficiently which is just the opposite of almost every other MMO. It just adds on to the list of things that need to be changed for me to actually pay for/enjoy this game. I get more sp by not using my weapon skills or any of my abilities as a Mrd at 24. If I just whack away with my axe I build more sp. Poor system, efficiency should be rewarded.
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#5 Nov 17 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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2,214 posts
Depending on the mob I get more exp for hitting it hard than I do dinking around with it.

But keep in mind, them telling us how SP works right now would be like them posting a Dev Q&A for FFXI in Lodestone. The information will become invalid soon. And I am 90% positive they will be posting something on it when they change it to the new method of gain.

Patience grasshopper.
#6 Nov 17 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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602 posts
I care more about maxing my SP gain than working with my group, this is what the current system managed.
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#7 Nov 17 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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2,120 posts
It does seem to me that more damage = more SP IF you actually earn SP on that action. That's not guaranteed and as it was mentioned before, trying different things ends up with the same result for the most part...it's random.

If you go all out on a big weaponskill with ability buffs beforehand it can be a nice chunk of SP. Though if no SP is earned then you pretty much cut short more chances of SP on that 1 fight. In a party that sucks more because you're affecting the others' chances as well. Likewise, you could drag a fight out only using basic attacks and still get 0 SP...more time wasted.

For the time being, I try not to focus on every bit of SP I earn and after each fight. It's depressing. Instead I try to fight away and most likely I'll be satisfied with the SP/hr. Not saying it's a good way of doing things, but that's how I ignore it and get by = D

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:10pm by TwistedOwl
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#8 Nov 17 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I care more about maxing my SP gain than working with my group, this is what the current system managed.


^This. I see it all the time when healing in groups. It's a cutthroat race to see who can pop cures/sac's first. Half the time, if there's a con in the group, I can see them rolling their eyes every time I cast any healing spell. I'm there for damage/debuffs, right? Sure, if I only want 70sp per mob while you get your 4-500. ><

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 12:00pm by Haizel
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#9 Nov 17 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
I agree completely, they should definitely phrase the final tally a different way. There were so many threads about this confusion in the first few weeks.
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#10 Nov 17 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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518 posts
They need to fix the random SP gain. It'll solve all the problems.

1. People will grind more
2. Solo'n will become more viable for those jobs able to do so
3. Certain jobs getting more SP per fight vs. others will stop
4. ???
5. Profit

lol had to add that in thar :-)
#11 Nov 17 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Random SP gain is fine. Its a long way to reach level cap, after 100,000+ actions that generate SP, good or bad luck, everything will be even out.

The real problems are

1. SP gain not direct proportional to damage done. For example, you do 60dmg on a mob and gain 50sp, if you use a WS that do 180dmg, you only get something like 100sp and not 150sp. This is where the More Damage less SP gain talks came from.

2. Different in SP gain for different job/role in the same party

3. Gladiator sword+shield SP capped at 500 combined each fight, lagging their rank behind when fighting mob that gives lots of SP constantly.

4. Exploit that afk party member gives SP bonus as long as they are in the same zone.
#12 Nov 17 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Siulang wrote:
Random SP gain is fine. Its a long way to reach level cap, after 100,000+ actions that generate SP, good or bad luck, everything will be even out.

The real problems are

1. SP gain not direct proportional to damage done. For example, you do 60dmg on a mob and gain 50sp, if you use a WS that do 180dmg, you only get something like 100sp and not 150sp. This is where the More Damage less SP gain talks came from.


Random SP is not ok. SP should be based on mobs killed not hits landed. If that is the standard than just like crafting when i fail i should also get SP when I miss. And what about those DC/EM mobs that a 25 PUG can solo. They have low HP making it soloable and catering to solo players. However, low HP means less chance of SP so it's a waist of time. Go fight that EP mob with a ton of HP.....That's retarded.

The whole reason why birds were so good in XI because they had low HP and you could claw through them at a high rate of speed. Also the reason why BLMs where able to solo on gob pets was because of the low HP on the mobs we fought. those options are not available in this game.

It sucks and it's stupid. I should kill a squirl and get a specific amount of SP based upon the mobs level to mine, not based on how long I fought it and how slow it died.
#13 Nov 17 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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EzellLangor wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Random SP gain is fine. Its a long way to reach level cap, after 100,000+ actions that generate SP, good or bad luck, everything will be even out.

The real problems are

1. SP gain not direct proportional to damage done. For example, you do 60dmg on a mob and gain 50sp, if you use a WS that do 180dmg, you only get something like 100sp and not 150sp. This is where the More Damage less SP gain talks came from.


Random SP is not ok. SP should be based on mobs killed not hits landed. If that is the standard than just like crafting when i fail i should also get SP when I miss. And what about those DC/EM mobs that a 25 PUG can solo. They have low HP making it soloable and catering to solo players. However, low HP means less chance of SP so it's a waist of time. Go fight that EP mob with a ton of HP.....That's retarded.

The whole reason why birds were so good in XI because they had low HP and you could claw through them at a high rate of speed. Also the reason why BLMs where able to solo on gob pets was because of the low HP on the mobs we fought. those options are not available in this game.

It sucks and it's stupid. I should kill a squirl and get a specific amount of SP based upon the mobs level to mine, not based on how long I fought it and how slow it died.


Eh, if the end result of both systems is X SP/hr then the way of getting it shouldn't be such an outrage. It's really more of a psychological annoyance than anything else.

As for crafting...there's a lot of b.s. gathering involved in order to get that guaranteed SP. Aside from leves, I can't grind a craft nonstop without farming or buying all those mats or shards. I think that makes up for it...
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#14 Nov 17 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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EzellLangor wrote:

The whole reason why birds were so good in XI because they had low HP and you could claw through them at a high rate of speed. Also the reason why BLMs where able to solo on gob pets was because of the low HP on the mobs we fought. those options are not available in this game.


why should they do this? this caters to blms or promotes you to just burn out mobs. how is this fun? efficient but boring. i like the fact that i have to actually engage my enemy and have some fun with it rather than 1 hit -> next. and this system shouldn't be confusing anyone. it is exactly like your weapon skills in ffxi except now your weapon skill is your level and you gain it the same way.

i think they should put a bit of an efficiency SP buff at end of each fight. like 50-100 for solo or 100-200 for party mobs depending on how efficient your actions were in the fight. 0 if they didn't do anything

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 3:52pm by TempLoop
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