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Tanaka Explains Control SchemesFollow

#1 Nov 18 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Found this on The Escapist, sorry if someone has already posted about it but I haven't seen anything (was posted this morning). It seems like Tanaka had an interview with Famitsu magazine.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/105408-Square-Attempts-to-Explain-Final-Fantasy-XIVs-Foibles

Quote:
We placed too much emphasis on making the game compatible with console controllers, so it's just not suited well for mouse control -- that was a huge issue with PC gamers," Tanaka said. "There really needed to be two different control schemes for console and PC, since both user interfaces work so differently from each other, but our development team didn't get around to that



Sounds like a good start to me :)

Any thoughts?

Edit: Forgot link durr

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 11:10am by OMGItsABear
#2EzellLangor, Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Tl;DR
#3 Nov 18 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I really do wish that people who hate the game just stop playing the %*#(@ game. All the posts hating the game and hating the players of the game are really starting to get on my nerves.

I like the game and am patiently waiting for fixes.... that makes me a bad person and fanboi apparently >_>
#4 Nov 18 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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EzellLangor wrote:
Tl;DR


Really? It's like 300 words. If they are aware of this issue maybe they are now developing separate controls that are more PC friendly. One can dream anyway.
#5Siulang, Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 11:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yea, stupid company make millions a year yet smart guy like you can only whine in a fansite, something is wrong with our world. Amiright?
#6 Nov 18 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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What was wrong with 11's UI? works for both I find.
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#7 Nov 18 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I played FFXI with a PS2 controller for years and don't touch the keyboard except to talk.
They should have gave away a PS2 controller and USB adapter w/ the FFXIV Collectors Edition release. It is a different game using a PS2 controller.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 12:38pm by drogier
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#8 Nov 18 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Ohhh Wait, 11's UI was system based and 14 is server based?
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#9 Nov 18 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
One of, he said? "There's a mountain of them," said director Nobuaki Komoto. "For now, we'll be fixing the issues on a regular basis via the version updates we have planned in November. We'll be covering the issues we previously discussed on our website, as well as those that pop up afterwards. However, new problems are being brought up more quickly than we can deal with them. The work's definitely piling up, but we will definitely fix them all."


"So you're in charge around here is that fair to say?"

Absolutely. I'm the Boss.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 8:43pm by Hyanmen
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#10 Nov 18 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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TheRealLusent wrote:
Ohhh Wait, 11's UI was system based and 14 is server based?


Yep. All to stop the hackers/RMT. So basically we suffer. What a great idea....
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#11 Nov 18 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Default
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Siulang wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Tl;DR

We released the game early, lol SE you'll never learn


Yea, stupid company make millions a year yet smart guy like you can only whine in a fansite, something is wrong with our world. Amiright?


Umm, huh? I'm a smart guy? Ok, I play the game and enjoy, but this is yet another in the score upon score of simple ******* problems that were brought up during beta testing that were never addressed and only now 2 months after relase and in some cases 3 months after release will be fixed.

And also no where in that post is there any whining?

SE released the game to early plain and simple. Sorry i didn't say it in a more polite manner. But this will be like the 5th invterview that is out there and it's all the same ****.

"we're sorry. We released an incomplete P.O.S. product and we hope you will stick with us as we try to fix it. We understand alot of the these fixes should have been made prior to release but we were just too **** busy doing other things to do effective quality control. Have some free months to play."

That's the essence of every article. Like I said

TL;DR

We released the game too early
#12 Nov 18 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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I really do wish that people who hate the game just stop playing the %*#(@ game. All the posts hating the game and hating the players of the game are really starting to get on my nerves.

I like the game and am patiently waiting for fixes.... that makes me a bad person and fanboi apparently >_>


I agree. If you don't like the game then go away. We don't need you to like this game for us to enjoy it. Sure, there are obviously issues. I am not saying this game is what I waited for and imagined it would be. I do however have enough patience to see if they will fix it. So please respect those of us with this mindset and cease the bashing. There are plenty of other games out there for you to play. All of which I'm sure are 100% perfect.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 1:46pm by OriginalSwinging
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#13 Nov 18 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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rikkuotaku wrote:
TheRealLusent wrote:
Ohhh Wait, 11's UI was system based and 14 is server based?


Yep. All to stop the hackers/RMT. So basically we suffer. What a great idea....

I really wish they could get off their high horse on that one...no matter how much they reduce server lag, still having each input go across the ocean and back is going to have SOME lag. Oh well, if they fix other things in the game I could get used to a little delay :)
#14 Nov 18 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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EzellLangor wrote:
Tl;DR

We released the game early, lol SE you'll never learn


SE isn't getting another dime of my money until they invent a blasted Time Machine, go back in time, and delay the release of FFXIV until it is good and ready gosh darn-it!

In all seriousness, SE IS learning. We're getting exponentially more developer, producer, and executive communication than during Beta and during all of FFXI. The past month or so they've done everything "right" regarding the poor release of FFXIV.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 1:15pm by Hydragyrum
#15 Nov 18 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
While I'm not exactly praising the company for releasing a game that wasn't ready for retail, at least it can fully own up to its mistake.


A day ago I wouldn't have agreed, but seeing Tanaka say this

Quote:
There really needed to be two different control schemes for console and PC


has changed my mind.

Now I believe he does understand the actual situation - up until this statement I wasn't so sure whether he "got it" or not.
#16 Nov 18 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Picking macros with the gamepad is really bad... pretty much anything after 5 is unusable. They should have set them into a radial menu like I suggested.
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#17 Nov 18 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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The real problem with the UI is only the equipment screen layout, but that's just because I use a controller.

I wonder if any of the reviewers used a controller when playing this game.
#18 Nov 18 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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rikkuotaku wrote:
TheRealLusent wrote:
Ohhh Wait, 11's UI was system based and 14 is server based?


Yep. All to stop the hackers/RMT. So basically we suffer. What a great idea....



Exactly.

Here's how FF11's 'route' works.


You press a key on your PC. It sends a packet 'hey I did this!' over the internet to the server.

Server receives the packet, actions it and sends reply to player's PC: 'Ok its done!'

Player PC receives the packet and animates the action on the player's screen.



Here's how FF14's 'route' works:

You press a key on your PC. It sends a packet 'hey I WANT TO DO this!' over the internet to the server.

Server receives packet, authenticates it, authorizes or denies it, sends packet to player's PC: 'OK I ALLOW YOU TO DO THIS'

Player PC receives packet, sees its authorized, sends packet back 'OK I WANT TO DO THIS HERE'S YOUR AUTHORIZATION' to the server.

Server receives packet, checks the authorization, processes it, actions it, sends packet back: OK ITS DONE.

Player PC receives packet, animates the action on the player's screen.


This happens for every single boneheaded action you take. From opening an inventory menu to every combat related key stroke to sending a chat message. This double workload and authentication is supposed to stop RMT from being able to collect data from the server via 3rd pty software and use it to perform global chat spam messages.

Problem is, by doing so, they lag everyone to death. The interface is insanely laggy because opening a menu that shows your inventory or gear means your pc and the server have to undergo that idiotic authentication exchange for EVERY ITEM. Until you receive the server authentication your client (aka your FF14 game installed on the pc) is not allowed to do anything else because it is stuck waiting for authorization.

It is why you cant browse a bazaar and move and why your combat interface sometimes just gets stuck... too many chances for packets to be lost and too much workload for the server and the client to process.

All this to stop RMT's from spamming. The irony of it is that on the 3rd day after launch we started to see ... RMT spams! 2 weeks after launch RMT's figured that crystals were the new gil and they are selling crystals and shards for real money (rather than gil).

As for the '2 different control' schemes.. thats absolute BS. All they had to do (and have done according to their patch notes) is to allow PC players to keymap any command to any key they want. thats all there is to it! The interface changes of reducing menus apply to both pc and gamepad users.. less menus is good.

I have my FF14 playing 100% keyboard by re-mapping keys.. its almost identical to FF11 play now besides the too-many-menus to go through issue (that again affects both systems).


Edited, Nov 18th 2010 4:23pm by Skyfaller
#19 Nov 18 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:
While I'm not exactly praising the company for releasing a game that wasn't ready for retail, at least it can fully own up to its mistake.


A day ago I wouldn't have agreed, but seeing Tanaka say this

Quote:
There really needed to be two different control schemes for console and PC


has changed my mind.

Now I believe he does understand the actual situation - up until this statement I wasn't so sure whether he "got it" or not.


While it's nice that he finally "gets it" now, just think if he'd have "got it" back when players were yelling it at him in alpha and beta.
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#20 Nov 18 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
but our development team didn't get around to that

That guy seems happy to continue to blame everyone but himself so far. Sure, it was the team that decided to put that off.... That's how it works... I guess they refused to listen to you when you told them to work on it?? If I was this tool's employee I'd be ************* him in 5...4...3...2...

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 4:58pm by RattyBatty
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#21 Nov 18 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
While it's nice that he finally "gets it" now, just think if he'd have "got it" back when players were yelling it at him in alpha and beta.


Because we didn't have the persuasion of the almighty dollar back then.
#22 Nov 18 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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(keyboard player)
heh, I know we all have different opinions. I fall into the category that is driven bat$hit crazy over the gui lag. I would rather have a really fast gui like 11, than anything else in the game. RMT will exist no matter what they do.

I wish they would have just made a carbon copy of 11's GUI for the most part. Worked great for keyboard and gamepad.

I sure hope they change how every item in your inventory is listed when you simply hit enter on your "head" slot... O.o
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#23 Nov 18 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
That guy seems happy to continue to blame everyone but himself so far.


Is he blaming someone? It seems he's just stating how it is.

You are reading a loose translation, you know that right?
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#24 Nov 18 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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there was an interview during beta that asked if the UI would change at all and the developers basically said it would be too big a task and it needs to be compatible with both console and PC so changing it too much would mean theyd need two seperate UIs which is something they just wouldnt be willing to do.

BUT NOW theyre saying they just never got around to making it in time? thats a blatant lie, they didnt waaant to make two of them. how lucky so many people didnt read or forgot such interview.
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#25 Nov 18 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I sure hope they change how every item in your inventory is listed when you simply hit enter on your "head" slot... O.o


Wish granted
Quote:
Selecting a slot will restrict the items displayed in the gear list to only those that may be equipped in that slot.


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=ae522972e787f44f3f98486de21b1ab2f941c524
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#26 Nov 18 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
BUT NOW theyre saying they just never got around to making it in time?


Who said that?

No one is saying anything about them having planned to have 2 UI's all along. They're simply saying that's the current plan.

I wish people didn't make stuff up all the time.

And the correct phrasing is "they didn't want to pay for the development of both if just one had sufficed".
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#27 Nov 18 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Who said that?

No one is saying anything about them having planned to have 2 UI's all along. They're simply saying that's the current plan.

I wish people didn't make stuff up all the time.

And the correct phrasing is "they didn't want to pay for the development of both if just one had sufficed".


Quote:
Quote:
so it's just not suited well for mouse control -- that was a huge issue with PC gamers," Tanaka said. "There really needed to be two different control schemes for console and PC, since both user interfaces work so differently from each other, but our development team didn't get around to that."


what are you talking about its right here in the OP interview >.>

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 7:18pm by pixelpop
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#28 Nov 18 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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what are you talking about its right here in the OP interview >.>

It's hard to tell through a translation, but I read that as, "There should have been two different interfaces, but the development team was too busy to notice that." Meaning, the thing they didn't get around to was looking closely at the UI and noticing its faults (or listening to the mountain of feedback about it from the beta).

If there were really two interfaces planned but only time for one, we'd have ended up with an optimized mouse/keyboard interface, since the majority of controller players won't appear until March. That is definitely not what we got, but we clearly didn't get a controller-based interface either, because macros and the gear screen are crap with a controller. The hybrid works-for-no-one interface we have now is pretty clearly the result of designing a single interface for everyone, not designing only the first of two.
#29 Nov 19 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Decent
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well i read it as i saw it, not sure about translations.

but anyway yeah its just odd that they didnt think of certain things before hand that to me are just a natural thing to any game ie. item sort...
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#30 Nov 19 2010 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
The real problem with the UI is only the equipment screen layout, but that's just because I use a controller.

I wonder if any of the reviewers used a controller when playing this game.



They were probably waiting for the PS3 release.

But how could we expect Square to know many people who play MMOs on PC use a mouse and/or keyboard? They're not psychic. At least they're trying to fix it.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 7:42am by Xothis
#31 Nov 19 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:


While it's nice that he finally "gets it" now, just think if he'd have "got it" back when players were yelling it at him in alpha and beta.


Ok I'll grant you that, but what are we going to do about it now? Keep whining? I'm probably one of the most vocal and critical of SE on these boards but now we're starting to see some statements of substance come out of them. Dwelling on what should have happened isn't going to help much other than to pat ourselves on the back about how right we all were.

Those of us who are long time FF fans know that JP has always come first. SE generally equates Playstation with JP, and PC with NA. Therefore, they controller got the most attention (and the controller schemes work very close to XI's schemeds) and the PC's weapons of choice were put on the back burner.

It seems like he realizes that there is a serious market in PC and that it's getting bigger than consoles. So - now they are fixing it. Should it have been there in the beginning? Yes.

But a few short years ago they would have ignored us completely and done whatever they wanted. People have shown him they won't put up with another 7 years of XI-style management, and it looks like he's trying to rise to the higher standard of excellence we expect.


Edited, Nov 19th 2010 7:58am by Torrence
#32 Nov 19 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Caesura wrote:
It's hard to tell through a translation, but I read that as, "There should have been two different interfaces, but the development team was too busy to notice that." Meaning, the thing they didn't get around to was looking closely at the UI and noticing its faults (or listening to the mountain of feedback about it from the beta).


I really don't think they saw it as that game breaking of an issue and they thought that there were bigger issues to address first. Now we know that's not the case, but I think in their opinion that was the case. I'm sure it was on the list of things to do, just wasn't that important to them at that time.
#33 Nov 19 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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Xothis wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
The real problem with the UI is only the equipment screen layout, but that's just because I use a controller.

I wonder if any of the reviewers used a controller when playing this game.



They were probably waiting for the PS3 release.

But how could we expect Square to know many people who play MMOs on PC use a mouse and/or keyboard? They're not psychic. At least they're trying to fix it.


Umm, because 99% of all mmos are on PC and they all use the keyboard and mouse? That could have given them a clue, no need to be "psychic".
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