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Crysta RefundsFollow

#1 Nov 19 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default
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So I have been having a recent problem: The Crysta that I spent on FFXIV is now not being used and the game is such a chore, I decided to quit and be done with it. Problem: Crysta is now frozen by Square Enix. Now, I know it was stupid of me to hope, but I went and sent a little letter to Square Enix customer support regarding the refunding of my Crysta, since I do not plan on spending it now, or ever really.

I would like everyone to know how Square Enix responded to my inquiries.

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Email SE sent in response to my initial request:

From: <support_na@square-enix.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:14 AM
To: <yukime_88@hotmail.com>
Subject: [t870202:c70f] yukime_88@hotmail.com

Dear Customer,

Regarding your request for account support. Please find your answer below.

Unfortunately that service is not available at this time. There are no refunds on Crysta purchases. We are very sorry for the inconvenience.
Suggestions from our customers are always valued. While we cannot guarantee implementation we will surely pass this on to the developers.

Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center.

For additional assistance with this issue, you can reply to this email directly. For assistance with a new issue, please visit the SQUARE ENIX Support Center at http://support.na.square-enix.com.


Here was my response to that:


Dear sir/madam:

Thank you for your quick response. I also thank you for allocating time to investigate this matter for me further.

I have re-read the User Agreement for Final Fantasy XIV and took note of certain key points that I would now like to point out in relation to this issue. The user agreement does not specify or indicate that Crysta cannot be refunded in this manner. In fact, with regards to the billing cycle, Square Enix should not even be billing customers if they deactivate their account.

This is stated in Section 4.8 of the FFXIV User Agreement on your website:

" 4.8 Deactivation of Subscription. You may deactivate your FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account and/or any individual Options at any time. If you deactivate your FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account, you will be required to deactivate all Options. Other than the exception explained in Section 4.3(a), no further billing related to the deactivated FINAL FANTASY XIV Service Account or Option will occur until you reactivate by following the procedures explained at na.finalfantasyxiv.com/support. If you believe that you have been accidently charged by SQUARE ENIX after you deactivated, please contact the SQUARE ENIX Support Center at na.finalfantasyxiv.com/support for a refund upon confirmation. "

My inquiry is as follows. How would this agreement apply then if it is not possible for Crysta to be refunded, for I certainly have deactivated my account and I am most certainly not playing nor will be playing Final Fantasy XIV in the near or possibly distant future? Square Enix has already charged me for months, in this case, that I will not be playing. Is Crysta a system set in place for exactly this purpose? With the rules stating that refunds are possible, I would like to think that it was not Square Enix's
intention to take money from users who will no longer be playing this game.

Furthermore, in no way did Square Enix cite that Crysta was a non-refundable purchase upon submission of payment information, therefore it does not remove the possibility of a refund on Crysta purchases.

In many new articles published, the CEO of Square Enix stated that the company would like to regain the trust of its users all over the world, and I quote the following sentiment from CEO Yoichi Wada:

"If we satisfy our users, they will return. On the other hand, once the users say, 'forget this,' there's no turning back. We can only recover our trust so far."

I would say that resolving an issue such as this would work in the way of reinforcing and restoring the remaining trust of Final Fantasy fans and gamers such as myself. I expect that Square Enix, a corporation famous around the world for its quality in the gaming industry, would also adhere to this sentiment and follow this direction. If this issue is not resolved, I will certainly inform other users of this Square Enix product about the results pending my inquiries. Furthermore, the people in this community of
the United States who I have conferred with, will be sure to exercise far more caution and skepticism before purchasing any more Square Enix products in the future for the reasons outlined above. In addition to that, I may also be seeking resolution through the Better Business Bureau if no resolution to this issue is reached. I do not believe that any of these circumstances are in the interest of Square Enix at this time, as it seeks to win back the trust of their users through improving the game and addressing issues such as the one presented.

Thank you for your time and cooperation in these matters.


And their response to my response is this:

Dear Customer,

Regarding your request for account support. Please find your answer below.

Thank you for reporting your concern. To submit feedback on this situation, please report through the feedback form on the SQUARE ENIX Support Center website. This can be found at: http://support.na.square-enix.com > Final Fantasy XIV > Contact > Suggestions and Feedback. Your submission will be directed to the appropriate location and reviewed. We do appreciate all feedback, suggestions, and comments.

Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center.


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I just sent back a response today. I will update regarding whether or not they actually resolved this issue, or say whether or not they gave me another roundabout copy + paste answer.

Thoughts?
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#2 Nov 19 2010 at 5:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Crysta is not used for FFXIV exclusively.
Your decision to quit FFXIV does in no way affect the crysta you bought
(which are, as far as I remember the crysta purchase agreement non-refundable).

Question solved?
#3 Nov 19 2010 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts
No issue not solved.

Have you tried using your Crysta to purchase items at the SE Store? You cannot purchase anything with Crysta there nor anywhere else that I know of. The only use Crysta has is for FFXIV subscriptions.
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#4 Nov 19 2010 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Crysta is not used for FFXIV exclusively.
Your decision to quit FFXIV does in no way affect the crysta you bought
(which are, as far as I remember the crysta purchase agreement non-refundable).

Question solved?


I would really like to know what you can spend Crysta on besides FFXIV. If you have done any research into it, which you obviously have not, you would see that FFXIV IS the only use. When purchasing Crysta, there is no such agreement. Canceling a service account effectively makes Crysta useless and just sits there in Square Enix's bank, and so far they have made so much money off of people that have quit that it's sickening.
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#5 Nov 19 2010 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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As much as you may not like it, SE has always made it very clear that their virtual goods/properties/currency have no real world value. It's no different than putting money on a gift card when you buy crysta, you won't get a refund just because you never use it.
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#6 Nov 19 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
GodlikeCasey wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Crysta is not used for FFXIV exclusively.
Your decision to quit FFXIV does in no way affect the crysta you bought
(which are, as far as I remember the crysta purchase agreement non-refundable).

Question solved?


I would really like to know what you can spend Crysta on besides FFXIV. If you have done any research into it, which you obviously have not, you would see that FFXIV IS the only use. When purchasing Crysta, there is no such agreement. Canceling a service account effectively makes Crysta useless and just sits there in Square Enix's bank, and so far they have made so much money off of people that have quit that it's sickening.


SE has said they plan to use crysta for micro transactions in future game releases and that while its initial and current purpose will be for use with FFXIV, it will be more widely used with Squeenix stuff in the future. As for the purchase terms, I am unsure if there was a purchase agreement at all, however if there wasn't and refunds weren't advertised they can say the sales were final. I am in no way saying it's the "right" thing for them to do, but as a retailer selling a product they are not required to accept returns if they haven't breeched their duty of care to the customer in some fashion.
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#7 Nov 19 2010 at 5:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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What Rinsui said is pretty much how I understood it to be when I got the game in September. Don't remember if it clearly stated "No Refunds", but that was the impression I got. You bought SE currency, but you've paid no fees for FFXIV. So there's no refund to be made from canceling FFXIV.

Like Manosuke said, I'm not saying it's right or clearly obvious, but that's the way it came off all along.
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#8 Nov 19 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Default
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In the future it'd be a smart thing to put your purchases on a credit card so you're protected. I had this exact problem with Aion. Asked NCSoft for a refund for my digital download and to close/ban my account because the game was so terrible -- they refused. In response, I threatened them with a charge back since I bought it on a credit card and a day later they had banned my account and refunded the money.

Useful little feature. Companies don't like charge backs because the customer always wins when it comes to things like this, and they end up paying hefty fees; they're better off refunding you.

FWIW Square is issuing me a refund for FF XIV without me having to resort to any of this.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 6:59am by Xothis
#9 Nov 19 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, SE did state that Crysta wasn't refundable once you paid for it. It isn't written all over the place in big bold letters, but it isn't necessarily hidden either (not that it matters because electronic funds like that have almost always been "permanent" purchases regardless of who's selling it or what it's for). It's the kind of thing you should have stumbled upon and read while you were trying to set up your account and payments.

Square Enix wrote:
・Square Enix Crysta cannot be refunded once they have been added to an account.
 Personal information used in Square Enix Crysta transactions is handled according to Square Enix's Privacy Policy.


Taken straight from one of the side menus on the account management site, specifically the tab talking about the various payment methods. I'm also pretty that it is (or was) posted in other easy-to-access places, too. It's certainly not something that should be coming as a surprise at any rate.
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#10 Nov 19 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Ok here is what I am reading in the stuff you posted, and it is the problem


it says you may get refunds on stuff "accidentaly and wrongfuly" charges "AFTER" you terminate your account.

you bought crysta "during" your active account, therefore it would not qualify

i hate to say it, but this is how online currency works, its a good you did in fact recieve, just because you didnt use it doesnt mean it can be refunded.

this is why you shoulda waited to buy it until you were going to use it(as a normal person woulda done).
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#11 Nov 19 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xothis wrote:
FWIW Square is issuing me a refund for FF XIV without me having to resort to any of this.


Is Square really "issuing" you a refund via chargeback, or is it Gamestop/BestBuy/Walmart/etc?

The charge back feature is essentially for items or services that you paid for but did not receive. Not as a way for you to get refunds on things you just didn't like.

Your abuse of the credit card charge back system is going to force your bank to extend their time to hurt the retailer you purchased FFXIV from. Square won't see, know, or care about it at all.

Edit: And I think if the retailer is able to provide your signature for the item, then they can keep their money and your financial institution has to eat the money at that point.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 9:11am by JaduFenrir
#12 Nov 19 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't want to be rude but did you really have to blow your load and pile up on the crysta? Otherwise if you are trying to get 10-20 dollars back, I'm sorry but it's clearly stated that crysta is non-refundable.
#13 Nov 19 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
No issue not solved.

Have you tried using your Crysta to purchase items at the SE Store? You cannot purchase anything with Crysta there nor anywhere else that I know of. The only use Crysta has is for FFXIV subscriptions.


Well, that may be true wherever you live, but not where I do. Here there's a plethora of stuff you can buy with
it at the SE online shop. I'm sorry you've been dealt bad cards; until the Crysta system is fully established
in your country, you may be right.

and

Quote:
I would really like to know what you can spend Crysta on besides FFXIV. If you have done any research into it, which you obviously have not, you would see that FFXIV IS the only use. When purchasing Crysta, there is no such agreement.


Rude. Even moreso than I am (which really crosses a line already, mind you). I can only speak for my contract,
but in that one there was a clear no-refund statement. But maybe it got miraculously lost in translation?


Edited, Nov 19th 2010 11:36am by Rinsui
#14 Nov 19 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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JaduFenrir wrote:
Xothis wrote:
FWIW Square is issuing me a refund for FF XIV without me having to resort to any of this.


Is Square really "issuing" you a refund via chargeback, or is it Gamestop/BestBuy/Walmart/etc?

The charge back feature is essentially for items or services that you paid for but did not receive. Not as a way for you to get refunds on things you just didn't like.

Your abuse of the credit card charge back system is going to force your bank to extend their time to hurt the retailer you purchased FFXIV from. Square won't see, know, or care about it at all.

Edit: And I think if the retailer is able to provide your signature for the item, then they can keep their money and your financial institution has to eat the money at that point.

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 9:11am by JaduFenrir


people dont realize how the chargeback system works
if it was so easy as just a call and letting the bank handle it, and them "always" giveing you your money back, credit cards would be worthless and no one would accept them

the bank should be investigating before they issue you any kinda refund/chargeback
and for products you bought that dont like, you shouldnt get squat back.

online purchases are a different matter, but even then there are tons of ways to prove you got stuff.


if the chargeback system was so great for the customer, there would be people out there buying tons of stuff and charging back everything knowing full well they would get all their money back, keep the product, and be fine and dandy with it

and actualy, issuing false chargebacks, could be considered FRAUD and you could have charges brung against you for doing it
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#15 Nov 19 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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Um, when I signed up for FFXIV the se site did say that crysta was non-refundable. Sorry to hear about your issue man, but you really have nobody to blame but yourself for this.
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#16 Nov 19 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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It is too bad you don't like the game now, but they did make it pretty clear Crysta is non-refundable. On the bright side when the game is improved in a few months maybe you will want to play and you will have crysta ready to reactivate your account!
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#17 Nov 19 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
No issue not solved.

Have you tried using your Crysta to purchase items at the SE Store? You cannot purchase anything with Crysta there nor anywhere else that I know of. The only use Crysta has is for FFXIV subscriptions.


Well, that may be true wherever you live, but not where I do. Here there's a plethora of stuff you can buy with
it at the SE online shop. I'm sorry you've been dealt bad cards; until the Crysta system is fully established
in your country, you may be right.

and

Quote:
I would really like to know what you can spend Crysta on besides FFXIV. If you have done any research into it, which you obviously have not, you would see that FFXIV IS the only use. When purchasing Crysta, there is no such agreement.


Rude. Even moreso than I am (which really crosses a line already, mind you). I can only speak for my contract,
but in that one there was a clear no-refund statement. But maybe it got miraculously lost in translation?


Edited, Nov 19th 2010 11:36am by Rinsui


This is within the United States. Please show me where you can purchase other services/product with Crysta. Both your initial response and this one were both rude. If this were the case, I would have purchased some stuffed animal and jumped ship by now.

I'm hoping that Manosuke is correct because I don't see this game taking off for probably another year if at all.

SickleSageKiroh wrote:
As much as you may not like it, SE has always made it very clear that their virtual goods/properties/currency have no real world value. It's no different than putting money on a gift card when you buy crysta, you won't get a refund just because you never use it.


I would love to agree with this but Crysta does not equal gil. They do not charge you for gil and they charge you for Crysta. This means that to them, Crysta does have value. If Crysta had no real world value then it couldn't be used to purchase services or products.

If anyone is curious of the amount of Crysta purchased:
$50 to one account for 3 months play time.
$70 to another account for 6 months play time.

This was probably before a lot of you even had the game. This was all purchased on September 23rd, and the lodestone site was barely working. I'm pretty sure that there was no note that Crysta was non-refundable.

In any case, Faranquis was posting this here because she believed that Square Enix pushed her to the side. A lot of people are saying "I can't say it's right, but look there". That was her point, Square Enix should be trying to restore trust in their customers, not keeping every dime that might have been unethically obtained.
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#18 Nov 19 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It is too bad you don't like the game now, but they did make it pretty clear Crysta is non-refundable. On the bright side when the game is improved in a few months maybe you will want to play and you will have crysta ready to reactivate your account!


I really hope this is the case, I had fun with FFXI and if this issue can't be resolved, at least we can spend it on the game if it's fixed in the future.
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#19 Nov 19 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
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what the difference between crysta and ultimate pay? i was checking the management systems and just notice ultimatepay from playspan, and wonder the difference between both methods.
#23 Nov 19 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Default
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JaduFenrir wrote:
Xothis wrote:
FWIW Square is issuing me a refund for FF XIV without me having to resort to any of this.


Is Square really "issuing" you a refund via chargeback, or is it Gamestop/BestBuy/Walmart/etc?

...

Your abuse of the credit card charge back system is going to force your bank to extend their time to hurt the retailer you purchased FFXIV from. Square won't see, know, or care about it at all.

Edit: And I think if the retailer is able to provide your signature for the item, then they can keep their money and your financial institution has to eat the money at that point.
]



Let me explain since it seems you misunderstood. Square is issuing me a refund directly, there was or is no charge back because they are being cooperative. The retailer is not going to issue me a refund because the game is opened, so I contacted Square.

Read my statement in bold again please -- Square is issuing me a refund without me having to resort to any of this (charge backs, like I threatened with Aion). The reason I did this with Aion is because NCSoft was uncooperative and I had bought it directly from them via digital download, which just cost them some bandwidth. I did not have to follow through with the charge back to get a refund. So to answer your question I haven't filed any for these games.

Quote:
The charge back feature is essentially for items or services that you paid for but did not receive. Not as a way for you to get refunds on things you just didn't like.


Wrong. Charge backs are also for merchandise which is of poor quality or defective. Just do a little Googling or read any credit card protection agreement and you'll see the number of valid reasons for filing one. Aion and FF XIV both fall into this category for me and I could have easily gotten a refund through that method if needed, without it being immoral or illegal -- much less "abuse" of a CC feature I am offered.

Fortunately SE knows their game was not worth the money at this point in time. As I said in other threads, I may buy it again in the future if some things are fixed.


Edited, Nov 19th 2010 8:38pm by Xothis
#24 Nov 19 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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JaduFenrir wrote:
Xothis wrote:
FWIW Square is issuing me a refund for FF XIV without me having to resort to any of this.


Is Square really "issuing" you a refund via chargeback, or is it Gamestop/BestBuy/Walmart/etc?

The charge back feature is essentially for items or services that you paid for but did not receive. Not as a way for you to get refunds on things you just didn't like.

Wrong. Chargebacks also apply to things such as receiving a defective product, receiving a product that was not as advertised, or a product which is incomplete (that's the part that would be argued to cover FFXIV, the credit card company doesn't care about someone saying "no mmo is ever "complete" and there would be a ton of websites out there for the credit card agent to reference the claim of FFXIV being "incomplete" that a chargeback would be simple ).

Your abuse of the credit card charge back system is going to force your bank to extend their time to hurt the retailer you purchased FFXIV from. Square won't see, know, or care about it at all.

Wrong. The company is hurt by chargebacks. If a company receives a large number of chargebacks/charge disputes, the credit card companies can and will refuse to allow their card to be used for the purchase of products from said company.

Edit: And I think if the retailer is able to provide your signature for the item, then they can keep their money and your financial institution has to eat the money at that point.


And I'm not advocating that anyone do a chargeback, by the way. I am simply clearing up some obvious misunderstandings you seem to have on how these systems work.



Edited, Nov 19th 2010 10:03pm by Zorvan

Edited, Nov 19th 2010 10:04pm by Zorvan
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