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Balancing is Half the Battle (11/19/2010)Follow

#52 Nov 21 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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821 posts
RamseySylph wrote:
Shezard wrote:
I like everything I see except...where is the enmity adjustment for Gladiator and for damage in general?
Don't get me wrong...I don't have problem holding hate...I only have problems holding hate if others are spamming their sh*t right from second one...which is the case in pretty much all grind PTs later on...and thats just annoying...ppl NOT wearing Plate or at least Chain equip should get hit for way more than atm...so they are encouraged to "not grab hate"...ppl wearing leather or cloth getting hit for like 100dmg more than me is just stupid-_-


You're confused, I think you're looking for World of Warcraft - and no I'm not purposefully trying to be belligerent or a tool - but, do not ever expect to hold hate at the start of a fight if everyone else opens by spamming, just as in Final Fantasy XI (and any MMO that requires higher brain function) threat management is a core mechanic, and not one that is entirely up to the tank.

Don't worry, once the content becomes difficult enough, people will start getting crushed for pulling threat when they're not prepared, in WoW if you pull threat it's the tanks fault, if you die its the healers fault (barring if you stepped in the fire/acid/unholyblight/waffleiron) hopefully that is something we never have to experience in FFXIV, and if you mindlessly pull threat, you'll know it's your own fault. "I can open the fight with Souleater SA Spinning Slash , amirite?"

Also, 100 damage is quite a bit in this game (At lower levels anyways), it would honestly be obnoxious if the damage discrepancy was too big, because we know that gap will increase as we level up, and there's nothing more obnoxious in my opinion, than the uninspired 'Hard as a rock or squishy as playdough' approach that generally means if at any point you're not a tank and you're hit by anything you're instantly vaporized. I'm a tank, I tanked in WoW, I've tanked in FFXI, FFXIV and many other games, and although it is empowering to always be in control of aggro/threat, it's nice to realize it's because you're actually good at what you do, not that your class has 3 taunts and couldn't loose threat if you tried - it's also nice that if you do loose threat, at least on an everyday enemy, that your friends don't instantly die.

I guess in closing, I have to ask - what rank Gladiator are you? If you've got the marks try buying heavy slash, before purchasing that ability keeping threat could be frustrating, after that - if you pair heavy slash with provoke and guard/boon + phalanx, I've found it fairly easy to hold aggro even when my partymates decide to go balls-to-the-walls.


I think you got me wrong ;)
I don't want to be handed hate, so it doesn't take any effort to keep it, but dmg is generating way more hate then it should be. My Gladiator is 30 right now, I never have problems holding hate at all, when I'm given the opportunity to open the fight. Cause with me opening the fight with Slash->Guard-> Provoke-> Phalanx, it will keep the mob on me for enough time to keep him on me for the whole fight. Problem with PTs right now is 1. dmg is generating too much hate. 2. ppl don't give a **** about who has hate, cause nobody actually is in danger of having hate, which leads to PUGs taunting all the time(cause it can net SPs <.<) and everyone spamming everything they got as long as they get out as many skills as possible=as many skill procs as possible. I for myself support the either hard as rock or squishy as paper mechanic. As everyone high enough in rank already noticed...ranks itself make a way bigger difference then any equip or anything else you could get to "maximize" your defense. This helps caster a lot when soloing and I believe thats the only reason why Ranks do make such a big difference...so soloing is still possible at any rank.
On my Rank I got 1700 HP and casters not completely ignoring VIT have like 1000-1200, so no...100dmg doesn't make a difference...not big enough of a difference to be worth considering doing something different. spamming is all ppl do right now and it just plain sucks. PTing in FFXI was great, it was fun, if everyone knew how to play their class, it was even more fun...but in FFXIV PTing is just something neccesarry to skill up in a reasonable amount of time, cause soloing after 25+ is just pointless. It has nothing on PTing in FFXI, sadly.
#53 Nov 22 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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3,416 posts
Ninja edit!

Quote:
The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties.


I bet it's all because of this thread! Great job.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 11:34pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#54 Nov 22 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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800 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Ninja edit!

Quote:
The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties.


So if I read this correctly, they did away with the old SP system and now use a traditional X level mob always gives Y exp? I don't see how additional acc will increase SP with a traditional system, unless they mean more acc = faster kills = more SP.

All in all I prefer the traditional system better, but we'll have to see how solo SP vs. blue mobs is (for solo viability) before I decide if this was a 100% good change or not.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 2:36pm by Hydragyrum
#55 Nov 22 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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3,416 posts
Quote:
unless they mean more acc = faster kills = more SP.


Betting on this.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#56 Nov 22 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,949 posts
The ninja edit is very awesome.

They didn't ninja edit the french translation... yet!
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FFXIV: Cloe Delisle Scholar, officer of the SWAGGER Free company, Sargatanas server.
#57 Nov 22 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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3,962 posts
This edit is win, glad I was right on the intention, even if I was wrong in my translation.
#58 Nov 22 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
Encouraging edit. It sounds like they're addressing my own personal biggest issue with the current setup in that there was no incentive to challenge yourself by taking on tougher targets because you could frequently get the same SP from a blue mob that dies in 4 hits as a fight that takes you 2-4 minutes of close attention. I do fights like that anyways with or without SP just for the fun but they get old rather quick when you spend 4 minutes getting bounced all over La Noscea for 37 SP.
#59 Nov 22 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:


All in all I prefer the traditional system better, but we'll have to see how solo SP vs. blue mobs is (for solo viability) before I decide if this was a 100% good change or not.


Solo versus blue mobs would not be the best way to measure since at R20 a star marmot is blue and so is say something like a tier 2 puk or jelly that is a bit more challenging. As a soloer I would be aiming for green/yellow prey for a balance between speed of battle vs. SP gains.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#60 Nov 23 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Default
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155 posts

Character Progression
Accuracy

The accuracy rates for actions in general, both physical and magic, have been increased, making it easier for players to land attacks. This will, subsequently, result in more skill points.

Skill Points in Parties

The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties.

The above changes will serve to increase the tempo of battle, and also allow players to obtain more skill points than was previously possible. To further facilitate the process of ranking up, the amount of skill points required to attain ranks 11 through 31 has been reduced. The reductions are most significant for the rank range of 11 through 20, as we would like to enable players the ability to engage in more goal-oriented content, such as the hunting of notorious monsters, at an earlier stage of play. Further information regarding these changes will be released in the version update details Topics post of November 24.
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#61 Nov 24 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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29 posts
Did SE just make a clarifying edit? I think the world is coming to an end.
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Torrence wrote:
**** bent on making EVERYTHING in the game controlled by a handful of players with the patience of Mother Theresa
#62 Nov 24 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:


All in all I prefer the traditional system better, but we'll have to see how solo SP vs. blue mobs is (for solo viability) before I decide if this was a 100% good change or not.


Solo versus blue mobs would not be the best way to measure since at R20 a star marmot is blue and so is say something like a tier 2 puk or jelly that is a bit more challenging. As a soloer I would be aiming for green/yellow prey for a balance between speed of battle vs. SP gains.


Yes, or if you're like me, a low red just to keep things interesting. I would expect that if the accuracy adjustments are at all significant, solo players will be focusing on orange/low red mobs whenever possible unless SE tunes the SP to be thoroughly mediocre no matter what you do as a solo player.
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