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#1 Nov 20 2010 at 2:22 AM Rating: Good
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Does anyone else's thumb start to hurt after a few hours of hitting the same button over and over to attack? It doesn't surprise me, I would expect as much. Eventually tonight I started using a different finger to press it, and then eventually grew too bored and logged.

This isn't something I'm going to want to endure on a regular basis, so perhaps in addition to the unfortunate lack of strategy or teamwork in parties, this game isn't going to work for me physically either..
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#2 Nov 20 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Not for me but it gets extremely repetitive that I tear up from boredom. Healing is conal (thaum) so with a click of a key I can heal everyone I need to. What can ya do SE decided to change the battle system
#3 Nov 20 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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I am also playing with a controller, and i set the cursor on the "heavy slash" command (i'm GLD) and use the number keys on the keyboard with my left hand for other commands. The battle does feel repetitive. I've tried a couple of large group SP grinding with my LS and the messy fight makes the battle even more boring, since the only thing I need pay attention to is the TP bar. WIth two healers and fighting black efts there is absolutely no danger at all. Both fighting and crafting always make me wanna sleep, literally. ^^;

But I'm still hanging in there hoping things will change soon enough.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 12:54am by Nyariko
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#4 Nov 20 2010 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Coyohma wrote:
Does anyone else's thumb start to hurt after a few hours of hitting the same button over and over to attack? It doesn't surprise me, I would expect as much. Eventually tonight I started using a different finger to press it, and then eventually grew too bored and logged.

This isn't something I'm going to want to endure on a regular basis, so perhaps in addition to the unfortunate lack of strategy or teamwork in parties, this game isn't going to work for me physically either..


Nope not for me, but then I am a console gamer at heart where all your fingers and thumbs are used :)
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#5 Nov 20 2010 at 5:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lonix wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
Does anyone else's thumb start to hurt after a few hours of hitting the same button over and over to attack? It doesn't surprise me, I would expect as much. Eventually tonight I started using a different finger to press it, and then eventually grew too bored and logged.

This isn't something I'm going to want to endure on a regular basis, so perhaps in addition to the unfortunate lack of strategy or teamwork in parties, this game isn't going to work for me physically either..


Nope not for me, but then I am a console gamer at heart where all your fingers and thumbs are used :)


And games were meant to be played on controllersSmiley: lol

Nah, I don't get that kind of thumb pain. As for boring combat, I say some people make it more boring and then blame the game. People decide that max SP per fight is the only way to play and find that mashing one button helps that pursuit so that's what they do. I have more fun soloing because I'm putting all my abilities to use. Point there is, you don't "have to" play that way...
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#6 Nov 20 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
As for boring combat, I say some people make it more boring and then blame the game. People decide that max SP per fight is the only way to play and find that mashing one button helps that pursuit so that's what they do. I have more fun soloing because I'm putting all my abilities to use. Point there is, you don't "have to" play that way...


I have a hard time with this. Mainly because party combat is boring and repetitive in FFXIV. EXP parties were never formed in FFXI around the idea of having as much fun as possible. Getting xp was the fun... and the goal. But the key difference is that the repetitive nature of partying was mitigated in FFXI by efficient automation. It was easier to bear.
In FFXIV, party combat is neither efficient nor able to be efficiently automated and that makes for some tedious button mashing and painful macro executing.
I will agree that soloing is definitely the most exciting and tactical form of sping. Maybe Duoing as well. Taking on really hard mobs - you definitely have to plan your ability moves in advance to survive. With a party its basically a straight button mash zerg which at this point is getting pretty tiring. The majority of blame for this can 'squarely' be placed on ffxiv.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 3:23pm by rikkuotaku
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#7 Nov 20 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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If the OP isn't being facetious, then no my hands really never hurt playing FFXIV on a keyboard or controller. Now that I remember the only thing that does kinda hurt was my right mouse hand; that bone on the bottom where the wrist meets the hand. Though I'm assuming most that game (on a PC) have a callus there. When on a controller only when I play for hours do my hands cramp up, and that's playing MW2 or other FPSs (a lot more 'strenuous') for 5+ hours.

Really though, I would like to see an auto attack, but not because of the pain but like others stated to alleviate the monotony of pushing the button. I think it would also 'define' the classes better (although a modified stamina bar could to the same thing). PUGs should hit softer and fast, while MAR and LNC should hit harder and slow. It's a shame there aren't weapon speeds and more variation like this for the classes. I hope this will come in time.

It seems as though as a MAR you can hit just as fast as a PUG and that shouldn't be.

But as far as FFXIV problems go, these sorts of things are pretty far down on my list...
#8 Nov 20 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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rikkuotaku wrote:
I have a hard time with this. Mainly because party combat is boring and repetitive in FFXIV. EXP parties were never formed in FFXI around the idea of having as much fun as possible. Getting xp was the fun... and the goal. But the key difference is that the repetitive nature of partying was mitigated in FFXI by efficient automation. It was easier to bear.
In FFXIV, party combat is neither efficient nor able to be efficiently automated and that makes for some tedious button mashing and painful macro executing.
I will agree that soloing is definitely the most exciting and tactical form of sping. Maybe Duoing as well. Taking on really hard mobs - you definitely have to plan your ability moves in advance to survive. With a party its basically a straight button mash zerg which at this point is getting pretty tiring. The majority of blame for this can 'squarely' be placed on ffxiv.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 3:23pm by rikkuotaku


Nice touch with the closing line. I can't disagree much with that aside from my opinion & personal preference. I was never a big fan of party grinding in XI either. I'd take a fun party or fun content like Campaign with less SP/hr over a grinding party any day.

Like everyone else, I'm hoping the upcoming SP changes help a lot. I definitely wasn't saying it's fine as is in the previous post. What I was gettin' at was everyone being concerned about their SP/fight and that causing a chain reaction in parties. I know that's the main objective for most, but it's also responsible for making it more boring. To keep the group happy, people have to change their playstyle. Or you get threads about parties with conjurers yelling at archers and the likeSmiley: grin People are choosing to play a boring way because that seems to be the best way to work the current system for the most SP/hr. Hopefully that will change and we'll see less & less of these discussions...

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 4:05pm by TwistedOwl
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#9 Nov 20 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:


Like everyone else, I'm hoping the upcoming SP changes help a lot. I definitely wasn't saying it's fine as is in the previous post. What I was gettin' at was everyone being concerned about their SP/fight and that causing a chain reaction in parties. I know that's the main objective for most, but it's also responsible for making it more boring. To keep the group happy, people have to change their playstyle. Or you get threads about parties with conjurers yelling at archers and the likeSmiley: grin People are choosing to play a boring way because that seems to be the best way to work the current system for the most SP/hr. Hopefully that will change and we'll see less & less of these discussions...


I hope so too. You're right, the way SP gain is calculated at the moment is just horrible for forming 'fun' sp parties. >.< But as much as I hope that SE makes significant changes, I also feel that there is opportunity for soloing to be equally fun. I prefer to solo and I like the challenge it presents for me.... but the down time between fights is just too great at the moment. I think the fun will wear off when I realize its going to take me 1 week of soloing to get from level 41 to 42. SP is always going to be king and let's hope SE comes to its senses and can somehow make fun a part of it as well.
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#10 Nov 20 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
If the OP isn't being facetious, then no my hands really never hurt playing FFXIV on a keyboard or controller. Now that I remember the only thing that does kinda hurt was my right mouse hand; that bone on the bottom where the wrist meets the hand. Though I'm assuming most that game (on a PC) have a callus there. When on a controller only when I play for hours do my hands cramp up, and that's playing MW2 or other FPSs (a lot more 'strenuous') for 5+ hours.

Really though, I would like to see an auto attack, but not because of the pain but like others stated to alleviate the monotony of pushing the button. I think it would also 'define' the classes better (although a modified stamina bar could to the same thing). PUGs should hit softer and fast, while MAR and LNC should hit harder and slow. It's a shame there aren't weapon speeds and more variation like this for the classes. I hope this will come in time.

It seems as though as a MAR you can hit just as fast as a PUG and that shouldn't be.

But as far as FFXIV problems go, these sorts of things are pretty far down on my list...


You want the auto attack back? I for one am glad its gone. I thought that was the most boring part about combat from FF XI. I'm glad combat in FF XIV keeps me button mashing it keeps combat more interesting for me. I really don't see how anyone can have a problem with button mashing though...**** I can't even think of one game that doesn't require pushing buttons or pushing buttons repeatedly so why is it such a big deal for this game?
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#11 Nov 20 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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As a 20 MRD who only solo's, I have had no need for an auto-attack up to this point. It would obviously be a popular addition/toggle for many people, hopefully that gets added to the combat bar somehow.

I like hitting the buttons personally. There are enough actions available that I hardly ever find myself hitting the same button over and over and over(without moving the cursor left or right, i use a controller).

Many people seem to be in agreement that large party combat is the pits. I can think of a few adjustments that are well within the systems ability and party combat can easily become enjoyable...

Unless of course you hate the combat system period, then I hope you LOVE DoL because you are running out of things to do in the game that are enjoyable. SE is going to be delivering ALOT of material and making major adjustments at least up to SP3 release. So far I like what I am hearing from Dev.

Anyways... between Tetris and Super Mario brothers, I haven't had feeling in my thumbs for almost 2 decades.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 6:02pm by drogier
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#12 Nov 20 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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Not everybody is in agreement about large party combat. It's a **** of a lot better than soloing.

To the op:
Don't keep hitting the one button, using the same attack over and over again is detrimental to your damage levels, SP gain (unless your soloing) and your personal health. If you start using a multitude of skills you will find your damage output increases, which in turn will help your SP gains against the typical 15+ levels higher than you party mob.

To those who complain about FFXIV's battle system:
Where is the strategy in FFXI? Where is the strategy in WoW? And please don't tell me "Stay off the lava!" is strategy because that has nothing to do with the combat system. On the other hand as a lancer in FFXIV I have to judge when to use my Invigorate and Speed Burst so as to not pull aggro. I need to judge when its best to throw up ferocity lest I want to whiff it. I need to at the very least pay attention to when I miss so I can throw down the Feint. I need to continuously re position myself both behind and a certain distance from the mob to maximize accuracy.

In FFXI I could hit Jump-High Jump and then go make a sandwich while I wait for my timers to reset... yippee, strategy indeed.

This game isn't Final Fantasy Tactics, but those who complain about a lack of strategy in battle are clearly those who refuse to use any of their skills but the first.

Party tactics do need a buff though. The fact that one tank and a couple of conjurers with 12 DD can take down a mob for good SP is slightly silly.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 5:36pm by Wloire
#13 Nov 20 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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Wloire wrote:
To the op:
Don't keep hitting the one button, using the same attack over and over again is detrimental to your damage levels, SP gain (unless your soloing) and your personal health. If you start using a multitude of skills you will find your damage output increases, which in turn will help your SP gains against the typical 15+ levels higher than you party mob.

It's the same button to execute any command. I certainly don't spam the basic attack the entire time, but I'm still pressing that button at least 20 times a minute.

If you party for 4 hours, that's pressing that one button/key around 5,000 times (and that's a conservative estimate).

Even if I ever manage to get to cap in this system, I worry that when a class comes around that I want to play.. I'll avoid doing so because the journey is such a pain in the... finger.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 7:20pm by Coyohma
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#14 Nov 20 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Default
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Ummm make a micro attack button buddies,

Light attack
Wait 3
Heavy attack
Wait 3
Light attack
Wait 3
Heavy attack
Wait 3
Light attack
Echo --------------------------

Now you should have 2000+ tp
Ferocity and trunkspittier

Then hit your attack macro again,
If you use this you will notice that you will thinking more on buffs cures whatever
#15 Nov 20 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Coyohma wrote:
Wloire wrote:
To the op:
Don't keep hitting the one button, using the same attack over and over again is detrimental to your damage levels, SP gain (unless your soloing) and your personal health. If you start using a multitude of skills you will find your damage output increases, which in turn will help your SP gains against the typical 15+ levels higher than you party mob.

It's the same button to execute any command. I certainly don't spam the basic attack the entire time, but I'm still pressing that button at least 20 times a minute.

If you party for 4 hours, that's pressing that one button/key around 5,000 times (and that's a conservative estimate).

Even if I ever manage to get to cap in this system, I worry that when a class comes around that I want to play.. I'll avoid doing so because the journey is such a pain in the... finger.

Edited, Nov 20th 2010 7:20pm by Coyohma


Unless you're playing with a controller it should be 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0. If your playing with a controller what exactly do you expect from an MMO? This isn't a genre for input combos.
#16 Nov 21 2010 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone here EVER play zelda? (not on the wii) all you do is mash the a button. XD a run around a run aaaa run aaaaaaaa hold a run aaaaaa I just wish it didn't have stamina that way i can play zelda style :3
Same goes for fable 3 you do button mash alot.
as fir ffxi, you must not have played it in its early days it used to not have the min/max bs. ppl grouped for fun and some are slowly going back to it.
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#17 Nov 21 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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on the subject on class define, it was not defined for a reason. with the system it wasn't suppose to have defined classes you was suppose to make your own using skills from other classes.
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