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Notorious Monsters will destroy Crafting like it did in FFXIFollow

#52 Nov 22 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Default
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Me meant? He mentioned? Are you talking in third person...?

I also don't understand your comment about rare/ex items, some of the items I listed where Rare/EX some were not, there is no correlation.

Also, what the **** are you talking about playing FFXI longer than 'I knew of its existence?' I've been playing for 8 years, considering I watched the first trailer shown for the game the day it was released, I seriously doubt you've been playing longer than I've known about it.

Troll much?

Your a troll
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#53 Nov 22 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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You and others that are posting to flame are being reported. Keep on Subject. If your opinion is different don't post in this topic just to offend or bash. Its not a question about what happened in ff11, its an affirmative. For those who didn't understand that, avoid wasting your time posting in anger because you disagree.

Grow up and look for subjects that DO interest you. Im not even going into your HQ Staves thing that pretty much summarizes how ignorant (aka as you ignore or don't have any idea about it)you are about the whole crafting options in FFXI and the % of profit from them.

The Admin said it all. Try to rate him down also with all that anger. Again this is not a topic asking if FF11 craft was or not crushed by NM drops, its a topic about FF14. If you didnt receive the memo, don't worry noobs are always the last in line to know about what is happening in a game. Maybe in 10 more years you guys will receive it.



Seems to me like you are the angry one here.
#54 Nov 22 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
Keep on Subject...(snip)...Im not even going into your HQ Staves thing that pretty much summarizes how ignorant (aka as you ignore or don't have any idea about it)you are about the whole crafting options in FFXI and the % of profit from them.

The Admin said it all. Try to rate him down also with all that anger. Again this is not a topic asking if FF11 craft was or not crushed by NM drops, its a topic about FF14.


Ah but I was on topic. The main ingrediant in HQ staves were elemental ores which were obtained from gardening. 0% of my big money synth were obtained from NMs (altho I guess that isn't entirely true since some NMs dropped Ebony Logs, however majority is obtained from logging). I believe your issue is with the HQ system and how if you didn't HQ you were losing tons of money. Another issue is that no items are BoE so the market get saturated with these items driving prices down. Yet another issue is how RMT with unlimited bank rolls powerlevelled crafting and pushed other crafters out of the market. However, none of these issues are the subject in question.

Also a pretty good money maker was ammunition (and myself having a 75 ranger for self-sustainability). None of those ingrediants were NM obtained either.

Now maybe you are talking about V-Claw and D-Cloth. Those items drop high level synth items for high level armors. These NM's themselves need you to be at or around the level cap to tackle (well I guess the level cap isn't 75 anymore), so why shouldn't they award you with valuable items for good armor from a high level NM.

Edit: And I am talking about FFXI because you are saying it will destroy the economy in FFXIV just like it did in FFXI. However, myself and others in this thread do not think that crafting was destroyed by NMs in FFXI and that's the difference of opinions that we are having.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 4:04pm by OMGItsABear
#55 Nov 22 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Default
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Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!
#56 Nov 22 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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darkhaze wrote:
Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!


Yeah, that'd be a GREAT way to destroy crafting jobs.
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#57 Nov 22 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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zoltanrs wrote:
Can anyone name me a game where crafting stayed useful? I can't think of even one. They were all useful for a minute ans sporadically throughout expansion but never again aside from a few niche things that were overcamped.


Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Eve Online all come to mind.

Crafting can stay useful forever if that's important to the developers of a game, but for whatever reason no one wants to make it important. I guess it's more important to have a structure where you can use loot as a carrot to get people to experience theme park rides.
#58 Nov 22 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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Shezard wrote:
When did NMs destroy crafting in FFXI? I played from 2003 til early 2007 and in those 4-5 years crafted Items were still the only thing to get while lvling <.<
Once you reach 75 you still use lots of crafted stuff til you get some HNM stuff or w/e...so I don't see where NMs destroyed crafting in FFXI at all?


Scape13 wrote:
NMs didn't ruin crafting in FFXI.


Level sync did.
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#59 Nov 22 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
People camp rare spawns in LOTRO. The difference between that and a game like FFXI, however, is that if your initial target's spawn area is overcamped, you can go elsewhere. People developed their favorites and mobs that they'd camp for hours and hours because the shards sold for a decent amount of gold and they could frequently get a camp all to themselves. The difficulty with trying to make NMs "memorable" based on the rewards they offer is that...you make them memorable based on the rewards they offer. Your not making memorable content, you're making sought after rewards. I'll take an entertaining process over a zomfgreward any day.
I'll nod in approval to the above notion.

Personally, I've always hated the NM system based on the fact that it can potentially benefit people who are on forever (or can afford to arrange their schedules around pop windows). Seeing that (like anything rarity-based) RMT could have a field day with the NM system was further proof to me that the system was badly designed. All we can hope for is no more repeats of leaping boots and peacock charm in terms of itemization and rarity.
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#60 Nov 23 2010 at 2:37 AM Rating: Default
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Gadhelyn wrote:
darkhaze wrote:
Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!


Yeah, that'd be a GREAT way to destroy crafting jobs.




and this is bad how?
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#61 Nov 23 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Notorious Monsters don't destroy crafing. Crafting destroys crafting. The economy starts with a limited supply of crafted and dropped gear. Notorious monster drops become available a predictable and slow rate. Crafted gear becomes available much faster. So players begin with crafted gear. There is an immediate demand and crafters are able to demand a premium price. As the NM drops become available those player's who had purchased crafted drops sell their crafted gear. The crafters continue to produce new products. Eventually then number of crafted products exceed the number of players needing or wanting that product. As NM drops continue to replace crafted goods and crafters continue to produce more product the demand drops to the point where it becomes more profitable to NPC the item than to try to sell it to a player. Even without the NM drops the simple production of more of an item than there are players to purchase that item will result in those items becoming unproffitable. In that gear now has a wear, repair materials and repair craft SE has ensured that crafters will have a place in the economy even after the market becomes saturated.
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#62 Nov 23 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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BriktheImmortal wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
darkhaze wrote:
Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!


Yeah, that'd be a GREAT way to destroy crafting jobs.




and this is bad how?


Not everyone wants to play DoM/DoW. I LOVE playing crafting jobs. You don't like an aspect of a game, don't play that aspect. But there are those who do, so don't ruin it for us.

I hate all these selfish little posters who don't take the needs and wants of others into mind when they come up with these suggestions.
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#63 Nov 23 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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with some creativity we can actually get a great system going. using a continuous upgrade system.

The looks and stats of the item can be upgraded to an ultimate weapon or armour using mats dropped from nm's
don't make it degrade but challenging to get using guests, popped nm's, and other currency or means to get the required mats needed for a synther to make. These weapons would still degrade but at a highly reduced rate and would need a repeatable quest to obtain the repair item and a crafter would do the repairs.


That would keep crafting in the loop and both sides of the classes would have something to do.

Another Idea I liked was someone mentioned notorious mining and logging spots . . .
that would be cool in idea, i wonder how the execution would work lol

#64 Nov 23 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Default
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i hate NMs the FFXI way and like how they are handled in eq. lotro altho they have them arent worth it anymore.

drops have to be no-drop non-tradeable. most of the time an NM you can kill solo or with a group of peers drops stuff way below your level so it ends up ppl killing a mob for a twink drop that another of their jobs that they have. anything remotely useful gets overcamped, and if not no drop rmt kick in
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#65 Nov 23 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Would it be a solution to both sides if the NMs did drop already made gear in the form of a 'Bind on Loot' but ALSO dropped the special mats for in game crafters to create and sell that piece of gear? That way your DoW still feel like they have accomplished but the market is preserved?
#66 Nov 23 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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I believe a hybrid system would be beneficial to DoH and DoW/DoM, as well as "hardcore" and "casual" players. For the hardcore players, world/timed NM's that may pop once every 24/36 hrs during a specific window, that drop certain weapons or armor and give titles. For the casual players or those that can't restructure their lives around spawns, NM leves that drop mats that can be crafted into special weapons or equipment.

Example (stats are just examples):
Cerberus, 36hr spawn, drops Cerberus Claws (PUG 60, 87 attack, 97 crit rate, acc. 90), Cerberus Bow (ARC 58, 83 attack, 97 crit rate, 96 acc.), and Cerberus Cuffs (DoM 54 wrist, 40 def, 38 mag. def, eva 20). Title given - Cerberus Vanquisher

Styx and Stones - Kill 3 **** Hounds, can drop/reward **** Hound Claw, **** Hound Sinew, and **** Hound Skin/leather. The claw is used to make Hellfire Claws (PUG 60, 80 attack, 94 crit, 88 acc). The sinew is used to make 1 Hellfire Bowstring, for the Hellfire Bow (ARC 58, 78 attack, 95 crit, 91 acc). The leather is used for Hellfire Bracers (DoM 54 wrist, 36 def, 35 mag def, 18 eva.)

Hardcore players get to have weapons and armor with better stats and a title. Casual players get good equipment comparable to the spawned NM versions, and don't have to be gimped and outcast because they can't do the spawned NM's.

And for the crafters, for those Hellfire items, throw up the crafter name under the description area, and of course the ability to repair both types of items.
#67 Nov 23 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
The RMT did, pretty much.

No wonder they're so careful about it here.



You are so right!

SE did muck up goldsmithing on their own though and left all high level gs'ers high dry :P
#68 Nov 23 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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NM's certainly didn't kill crafting... but does anyone really want to go back to having NMs camped to all **** like in FFXI pre-EX-patch? I sure don't.
#69 Nov 23 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Default
OMGItsABear wrote:
MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
Keep on Subject...(snip)...Im not even going into your HQ Staves thing that pretty much summarizes how ignorant (aka as you ignore or don't have any idea about it)you are about the whole crafting options in FFXI and the % of profit from them.

The Admin said it all. Try to rate him down also with all that anger. Again this is not a topic asking if FF11 craft was or not crushed by NM drops, its a topic about FF14.


Ah but I was on topic. The main ingrediant in HQ staves were elemental ores which were obtained from gardening. 0% of my big money synth were obtained from NMs (altho I guess that isn't entirely true since some NMs dropped Ebony Logs, however majority is obtained from logging). I believe your issue is with the HQ system and how if you didn't HQ you were losing tons of money. Another issue is that no items are BoE so the market get saturated with these items driving prices down. Yet another issue is how RMT with unlimited bank rolls powerlevelled crafting and pushed other crafters out of the market. However, none of these issues are the subject in question.

Also a pretty good money maker was ammunition (and myself having a 75 ranger for self-sustainability). None of those ingrediants were NM obtained either.

Now maybe you are talking about V-Claw and D-Cloth. Those items drop high level synth items for high level armors. These NM's themselves need you to be at or around the level cap to tackle (well I guess the level cap isn't 75 anymore), so why shouldn't they award you with valuable items for good armor from a high level NM.

Edit: And I am talking about FFXI because you are saying it will destroy the economy in FFXIV just like it did in FFXI. However, myself and others in this thread do not think that crafting was destroyed by NMs in FFXI and that's the difference of opinions that we are having.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 4:04pm by OMGItsABear



Profit over HQ while almost all NQ crafts were a loss. Sure you can explain that to me as well how a crafting system works when all normal quality items are a loss or a break even to sell and a minority of the total items that are profitable higher then camping NMs. Now tell me. You probably rushed your *** with rmt money to 100 using a powercraft guide while losing tons of money or you were playing since 2003 when everything was new.

Whatever its still a FFXI discussion that was NOT the point of this thread. Why you guys insist on posting on topics you guys disagree? You pretty much derail the topic to another subject. I don't care about those who don't agree that NM destroyed crafting in FFXI, its not about that and if you do believe i am wrong just dont post here, this is not a topic for you.

For those who are on subject though, Do you guys think that crafting in FFXIV is more solid than in FFXI? Even with finished items dropping and having better stats then their similar level crafted items wouldn't destroy the crafting of said item? I see a positive thing about FFXIV that is diversity. Many sets in FFXI were completely useless like the level 48 set with no stats i forgot the name.

In FFXIV though there are better sets than others for gathering/crafting/fighting the number of "useless" gear seems extremely smaller compared to FFXI. Maybe if SE release crafting gear in endgame similar to its NM conuterparts this problem can be adressed for both crafters and NM hunters.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 3:17pm by MclarenTAGPorsche
#70 Nov 23 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
[
Profit over HQ while almost all NQ crafts were a loss. Sure you can explian that to me s well how a crafting system works when all normal quality items are a loss or a break even to sell and a minority of the total items are profitable higher then camping NMs. Now tell me. You probably rushed your *** with rmt money to 100 using a powercraft guide while losing tons of money or you were playing since 2003 when everything was new.


Hint: If you want the derail to stop, quit being an offensive twunt and feeding it.

Just an idea.
#71 Nov 23 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it is a little premature to suggest with certainty an answer either way since no-one knows the type of drops,quality of gear etc that may be available from NM's.

I will say one thing though and that is that for many casual players (like me), the idea of spending 6 hours + camping the spawn spot of a NM fills me with dread. I understand the appeal, and in FFXI I was much more hardcore and loved it but these days, I just dont have the time to camp, try to claim, kill, and then only rarely get the drop I was there for in the first place.

As a result, Crafting will stay very relevant to those players who don't have the time for NM's.

For us, we may never have the very best gear available in the game, some of the elite high level players wont party with us because we are not wearing Hauby +1 but we will still provide plenty of demand for crafted goods which, whilst not as good (potentially) as NM drops - are somewhat more attainable.

SE said that it is trying to appeal to the casual audience!
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#72 Nov 24 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
BriktheImmortal wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
darkhaze wrote:
Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!


Yeah, that'd be a GREAT way to destroy crafting jobs.




and this is bad how?


Not everyone wants to play DoM/DoW. I LOVE playing crafting jobs. You don't like an aspect of a game, don't play that aspect. But there are those who do, so don't ruin it for us.

I hate all these selfish little posters who don't take the needs and wants of others into mind when they come up with these suggestions.



lol its not selfish it is simply dom/dow are at the mercy of a crafter, crafter prices whether or not a crafter wants o repair etc etc .... besides if all you want to do is craft go play second life
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#73 Nov 24 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Default
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crafting wont die still gonna need equip. if you need a super special item it will be like every other game where not everyone has it. even ffxi killed that and made so much equipment you swamped by what should you get and the same thins gonna happen here after some time passes.
#74 Nov 24 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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NM won't destroy crafting....

instead Crafting WILL destroy NM.... and the whole game
#75 Nov 24 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
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BriktheImmortal wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
BriktheImmortal wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
darkhaze wrote:
Make HNM armors/weapons that don't degrade over time, so no fixing require!!!


Yeah, that'd be a GREAT way to destroy crafting jobs.




and this is bad how?


Not everyone wants to play DoM/DoW. I LOVE playing crafting jobs. You don't like an aspect of a game, don't play that aspect. But there are those who do, so don't ruin it for us.

I hate all these selfish little posters who don't take the needs and wants of others into mind when they come up with these suggestions.



lol its not selfish it is simply dom/dow are at the mercy of a crafter, crafter prices whether or not a crafter wants o repair etc etc .... besides if all you want to do is craft go play second life


I stay with crafting because I'm saving the DoW/DoM experience for when my wife joins at PS3 release. And why is it so hard for so many to become friends with crafters? Friends don't take advantage of friends when selling goods.
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#76 Nov 24 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Friends don't take advantage of friends when selling goods.


You stole that from a bumper sticker, didn't you?
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#77 Nov 26 2010 at 3:40 AM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:
Good point. Followup question:

Do any monsters currently in FFXIV drop wearable equipment?

Skeletons drop eyepatches.
Faction quest NM's 'drop' a treasure chest with the gear inside, might not count.

Thats as much as i found out about before quitting.

Quote:
In Eorzea, lizards do not wear boots, just like they don't wear boots on Earth.

If we're gonna start using realism to dictate monster drops, then really why should only 1/20 squirrel kills have a marmot hide. They're all wearing one... Copy/paste for every other monster part.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 6:25pm by RattyBatty


The 'traditional' explanation is that most of the time you end up ruining the hide during combat. I would personally like to see this implemented in-game, however. For example add 'damaged hide' that only puts out 1 leather instead of 4 but drops more often. Make it so fewer strikes gives better chance of a good Hide. Make some magic attacks ruin hide, for example if you set it on fire.

But it's not just about Immersion, it's about Logic. If the mice make Axes in your game world, and carry them around, then it makes sense for them to drop. But not if all they do is bite, scratch, and ****.

Others have already said everything else I had.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 5:19am by skeptikal1
#78 Nov 27 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Rotting corpses did drop the Ripped Haubergeon before the batch.
#79 Nov 27 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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I think it was your expectations and mis-perceptions that "ruined" crafting in ffxi. It never was supposed to be something that you level to 100 then get instantly rich. It was just another way to make income, like farming or fishing. I had no problem doing this the entire time I played ffxi (nearly 6 yrs).
#80 Nov 27 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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If it stops people from charging 300% for items I'm all for it.
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#81 Nov 27 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
If it stops people from charging 300% for items I'm all for it.


only if you stop selling us items to make stuff at that 500% markup :)
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