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FFXIV punishes those who dislike craftingFollow

#1 Nov 21 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm irked by this. Me and a few friends are all in range 21-25. Difference is that they like crafting and that I don't. So I focused on getting DoW up to get skills from other jobs while they did their crafting.

Bottom line, I'm sitting close to rank 25 with a level 31 physical level, while my rank 21 friends have their physical level closer to 39.

I don't see how this is fair. They get an advantage on DoW for leveling crafting (higher stats) but its not like I'm getting any bonuses regarding crafting for leveling melee jobs instead.

Currently I'm leveling my crafts for close to 1k physical a pop JUST to catch up. And I hate it.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 8:44am by Fleven Lock Thread: flamewar
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#2 Nov 21 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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It takes like 20 minutes of your time to do 8 crafting leves every couple of days. Just doing that alone can yield thousands and thousands of experience points. It's not like you have to worry about farming the items or go through some daunting task.

There's nothing to complain about. Crafters get more benefit because the game runs on crafters. Besides, there are DoW benefits to leveling crafters anyway.
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#3 Nov 21 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It takes like 20 minutes of your time to do 8 crafting leves every couple of days.

Strange... because it usually takes 2 to 4 hours to do my Craft Leaves every Leave Reset... so something with your 20 isn't right here ^^"
#4 Nov 21 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
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Strange... because it usually takes 2 to 4 hours to do my Craft Leaves every Leave Reset... so something with your 20 isn't right here ^^"


2-4 hours? I run on a terribly slow internet connection which freezes like every 30 seconds and I don't think I've ever exceeded one hour maximum on any set of crafting leves, ever. Well unless you count delivering them but I don't take that into consideration all I care about is the skill gains.
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#5 Nov 21 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Have you thought to try DoL? i get 400 physical xp (I'm R13 bot) per tree chop. I'm not a fan, but i've been able to use a lot of the materials as a kind of currency, and the physical XP isnt too bad. I'm sure your crafting friends would gladly find something to benefit you if you harvested mats for them. That's kinda how teamwork goes.
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#6 Nov 21 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Yes correctly it takes around 2-4 hours if you decline delivery from this i would say around 2-3 hours, 2 is sure because once I've checked how much time passes when i do all the Craft Leaves.
#7 Nov 21 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Fact stays: this game more or less forces players to craft.
Some like it, most don't care, some don't like it.
I wonder whether SE can affor losing those who don't.
#8 Nov 21 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
Strange... because it usually takes 2 to 4 hours to do my Craft Leaves every Leave Reset... so something with your 20 isn't right here ^^"


2-4 hours? I run on a terribly slow internet connection which freezes like every 30 seconds and I don't think I've ever exceeded one hour maximum on any set of crafting leves, ever. Well unless you count delivering them but I don't take that into consideration all I care about is the skill gains.


Emiya is right. I'm doing my crafting leves and have been at it for 2 hours already and haven't even finished 5. And I chose 3 in-city leves and 2 in the closest camp. Between the running and the laggy UI its impossible to clear 8 crafting leves in 20 minutes.

Lets say you get just 4 material sets per leve? That's 32 synths. Thats about 37 seconds per synth.

And that doesn't include running to the NPC to get the materials, nor choosing the recipe, nor waiting on the windows to load.

So 20 minutes a day? Not possible.
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#9 Nov 21 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes correctly it takes around 2-4 hours if you decline delivery from this i would say around 2-3 hours, 2 is sure because once I've checked how much time passes when i do all the Craft Leaves.


The average time it takes me to craft an item for a leve is about 30-40 seconds. There's an average of 4 items per leve quest. You get 8 levequests. If you do the math, unless you're doing something wrong or your connection is severely laggy, you finish in about 20-35 minutes if you do them all non-stop.

So either I am actually a superhero born with the exceptionally talented ability to craft at lightning fast speeds or you are just doing it exceptionally slow. 2-4 hours just sounds extreme.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 10:30am by Rjain
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#10 Nov 21 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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TaigaHalak wrote:
Have you thought to try DoL? i get 400 physical xp (I'm R13 bot) per tree chop. I'm not a fan, but i've been able to use a lot of the materials as a kind of currency, and the physical XP isnt too bad. I'm sure your crafting friends would gladly find something to benefit you if you harvested mats for them. That's kinda how teamwork goes.


I have taken botany and mining up to 5, but honestly? It felt like I was getting less EXP than from crafting and that it was more time consuming since it involved running around to find the points and aiming to win the minigame.
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#11 Nov 21 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Right now I'm not crafting and only leveling Conjurer. I'm rank 30 physical 28 and I've found that I can level just as well as anyone else.
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#12 Nov 21 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Right now I'm not crafting and only leveling Conjurer. I'm rank 30 physical 28 and I've found that I can level just as well as anyone else.


I'm a level 24 marauder who has done some crafting and I'm physical 31. So I'm 6 ranks beneath you and I'm 3 physical levels above you.

Bottom line, I have a lot more stat points to allocate than you. The difference in performance would be more noticeable if you were leveling a melee though.


Rjain wrote:
Quote:
Yes correctly it takes around 2-4 hours if you decline delivery from this i would say around 2-3 hours, 2 is sure because once I've checked how much time passes when i do all the Craft Leaves.


The average time it takes me to craft an item for a leve is about 30-40 seconds. There's an average of 4 items per leve quest. You get 8 levequests. If you do the math, unless you're doing something wrong or your connection is severely laggy, you finish in about 20-35 minutes if you do them all non-stop.

So either I am actually a superhero born with the exceptionally talented ability to craft at lightning fast speeds or you are just doing it exceptionally slow. 2-4 hours just sounds extreme.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 10:30am by Rjain


I too take 2-4 hours to do this. I did the math for you up there, and its just not possible.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 10:47am by MajidahSihaam
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#13 Nov 21 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I too take 2-4 hours to do this. I did the math for you up there, and its just not possible.


I have never taken more than an hour to do crafting unless it was due to severe lag from my internet connection. I've done ALL leves (crafting and regional) in under 2 hours before. Some days that's the most amount of time I have.

It doesn't matter regardless. Before you know it you'll be 50 anyway, who cares how far ahead they are from you? If you were being competitive normally you wouldn't give a **** what you have to do to catch up so long as you do it.

To be honest, even though I normally hate crafting in other games, it's the only thing I really like to spend time on in this game. DoW is incredibly boring and slow. Crafting levels you up in a flash, and you can make a lot of money too.
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#14 Nov 21 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bottom line, I have a lot more stat points to allocate than you. The difference in performance would be more noticeable if you were leveling a melee though.


Yeah, I can see that. Only really needing to cure for SP doesn't require amazing gear or stats xD
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#15 Nov 21 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Default
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
I too take 2-4 hours to do this. I did the math for you up there, and its just not possible.


I have never taken more than an hour to do crafting unless it was due to severe lag from my internet connection. I've done ALL leves (crafting and regional) in under 2 hours before. Some days that's the most amount of time I have.

It doesn't matter regardless. Before you know it you'll be 50 anyway, who cares how far ahead they are from you? If you were being competitive normally you wouldn't give a sh*t what you have to do to catch up so long as you do it.

To be honest, even though I normally hate crafting in other games, it's the only thing I really like to spend time on in this game. DoW is incredibly boring and slow. Crafting levels you up in a flash, and you can make a lot of money too.


Errr. One person with capped stats is going to perform better than someone who doesn't have it capped. Thus getting level 50 faster. Not to mention that if you level just DoW you'll end up hitting rank 50 before physical 50 (take a look at that conjurer's stats. He's rank 30 and is already falling behind).

But that aside, you're telling me not to play DoW because you find it to be boring and slow? Well I like it and I find crafting to be boring and slow yet I don't go around telling people not to play it.

I'd also love to hear why the post with just the math got downvoted when its right.
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#16 Nov 21 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Physical level isn't really that big of a deal. Don't worry about it too much, you'll cap it in no time just leveling low level crafts.
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#17 Nov 21 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But that aside, you're telling me not to play DoW because you find it to be boring and slow? Well I like it and I find crafting to be boring and slow yet I don't go around telling people not to play it.


Pretty sure I didn't say that at all. I was talking about me. That had nothing to do with you.

Quote:
I'd also love to hear why the post with just the math got downvoted when its right.


You're right, it was right. It came out to 19 minutes, proving me right. So your argument was invalid.

I was talking about the time it actually takes to do the crafting when I said 20 minutes. If you have good time management skills, you can obtain the items while you go do other things relative to DoW or other general stuff. The only time taken away is the time it takes to craft, which is the thing you said you hated in the first place.
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#18 Nov 21 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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OP, (and others who have voiced similar opinions) I believe that you are thinking about this backwards...

You say:
Non-crafter:
Quote:
rank 25 with a level 31 physical level

Crafter:
Quote:
rank 21 friends have their physical level closer to 39


When I add myself to the dataset...
All-crafts/gathers and most combat:
Quote:
Highest rank is 30 and it's Botanist (can't fight ANYTHING with that). Leather, Alchemy, and Archer are 20, Carpenter and Weaver are at 18, Gladiator is 15, others (including all other combat classes except Marauder) are between 6 and 13 and physical level is 41


Now, first off, I'm not trying to argue with you about this point (it's unnecessary to my argument), but comparatively, unless there is some MAJOR data that you ... accidentally ... failed to mention. I don't see how your friends are only TWO physical levels below me, when my Botany alone counts for 9 ranks of work above them. I think your idea of "closer" when you say "closer to 39" may be stretching things a bit. But again, that is besides the point that I'm trying to get to (slowly)...

So... who has the highest combat rank? The NON-crafter.

Who can fight harder mobs and get more valuable loot drops? The NON-crafter.
Where is that money going to go when new equipment or repairs are needed to keep fighting harder mobs? Crafters.
Where is the Crafters' money likely to go when they need loot dropped by difficult mobs? The NON-crafter.

And the economy goes round, and round, and round....

Crafters have to spend a lot of time at their craft in order to keep you adequately equipped (by the numbers some people quoted to support your argument a whole **** of a lot of time, though us more full-time crafters say it SHOULD take you less time... so you either accept what we're saying, or have to figure we spend ABSURD amounts of time crafting).

That time is time taken away from hunting mobs, joining parties, chatting on linkshells, and instead it's generally spent sitting in a guildhall toiling away not really able to chat with anyone with the occasional exception of trying to find other crafters who make the odds and ends for the interdependencies of the recipes... and let's face it... if you think the time is bad... you are going to HATE some of the interdependencies.

But the game NEEDS players to do this! YOU need crafters to do this... at least if you LIKE having the weapons and armor that lets you go out and fight mobs.

Sooo... after spending all that time NOT fighting mobs... crafters get a reasonable BONUS to their level so they have slightly better stats (but they haven't raised their combat rank at all, via combat YOU raise both at the same time), just so that they can still hang with their friends who have been out fighting mobs and whooping it up in parties. And let's be clear, once you hit the level cap... that's it, no more bonus... and eventually, you too will hit the level cap. So there is no PENALTY to you for not crafting... your physical level is still higher than your rank, you aren't being kept from hitting rank or level 50, some people did it in a MONTH. And you will probably hit RANK 50 before your crafter friends.

So...
You are not being dealt a PENALTY, neither to your rank nor to your level.
Instead, in exchange for the vast amounts of time they spend contributing to the economic system of the game, Crafters are being given a BONUS, ONLY to their level and it is ONLY viable to level cap.
Also, that bonus is limited by the fact that even IF they have a much higher physical level than you, and therefore many more stat points to spend, because their rank is lower their STAT CAP keeps them from being absurdly more powerful than you regardless of level... and most crafters have to spend points in stats that do not (usually) apply to their combat class' effectiveness anyway, so some of those points are just an investment BACK into crafting.

Okay...?

This is all a matter of perspective, try looking at it from the other side of the mirror, instead of claiming persecution. You're looking at their physical level like they have some GINORMOUS advantage when it comes time to party up, but that just isn't the case.

I don't suggest doing so, but I bet you could easily beat your friends to the endgame if you forego the crafting you hate so much and just start partying with other people... but if they're your friends, why would you want to do that?

My honest suggestion is: Relax, take a breather for a bit, and answer this question....
"If my friends are into crafting, there must be something in it for them, can I either find out what that is for myself, or can I figure out some way to help them that I enjoy?"

Or, you know, you could hold onto your persecution complex, maybe get a bad attitude to go with it (because crafting isn't going to go away), get all spiteful and hateful and stuff ragging on a portion of the game that your friends like, maybe alienate them (and maybe part of the community that also enjoys it)... you know... stuff like that.

It really is your choice. Fun is mostly a matter of attitude, and we're all here to have fun (I hope).

Sincerely,
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#19 Nov 21 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
(take a look at that conjurer's stats. He's rank 30 and is already falling behind).


Falling behind? lol... I hardly ever die and get usually 400-500 SP per fight. I wouldn't say I'm ahead of the game either. I'm gaining ranks at a good pace I think. I mainly just want to keep doing the Storyline Missions.
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#20 Nov 21 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Rjain wrote:
To be honest, even though I normally hate crafting in other games, it's the only thing I really like to spend time on in this game. DoW is incredibly boring and slow. Crafting levels you up in a flash, and you can make a lot of money too.


Hmm... that's interesting ^^ I have the opposite, Crafting for me is BORRING~~! Like **** >,< I get tired when i do this D: but when I'm in battlefield, I'm fresh and full of power ^ ^
#21 Nov 21 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Bottom line, I'm sitting close to rank 25 with a level 31 physical level, while my rank 21 friends have their physical level closer to 39.

I don't see how this is fair.


Person "A" levels more jobs and gains more experience than person "B." As a result, Person "A" has more experience than Person "B." You really don't see how this works?

Next we'll have a Person "C" in here, complaining about how they RP an anti-crafting pacifist, and how FFXIV punishes those who don't kill and create.

"Bottom line:" this game (and all others) reward those who play it; it does not punish those who don't.

MajidahSihaam wrote:
They get an advantage on DoW for leveling crafting (higher stats) but its not like I'm getting any bonuses regarding crafting for leveling melee jobs instead.


Well... you get access to the skills you learned on your DoW. Nobody ever said that one school must give advantages to a different school; I don't know where you got this idea in the first place.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 12:53pm by KaneKitty
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#22 Nov 21 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Every game ive played similar views such as this always come up

"I dont like crafting, therefore any bonus they get over me is unfair"
"I dont like battling, its unfair they can get crystals and my harvester cant"
"I am a meelee and its unfairthat ranged players can hit me from a distance"
"I am a ranged player and its unfair that meelee attacks do more damage then ranged"

if its not one thing its another, in every game, the person being "Punished" is always the one who feels that someone else is getting something that they are not.

play the game your way, dont worry about what other people can do, can get etc etc, just play

in the case of OP, he is sore that his friends are leveling faster then him(thats exactly what i took away from his post). so of course, hes being punished for not doing something others are doing, when in fact, hes not being punished at all, hes just not getting that much extra
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#23 Nov 21 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Vedis wrote:
Every game ive played similar views such as this always come up
...
"I dont like battling, its unfair they can get crystals and my harvester cant"
I've never, ever heard of this argument in an MMO.
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#24 Nov 21 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
Every game ive played similar views such as this always come up
...
"I dont like battling, its unfair they can get crystals and my harvester cant"
I've never, ever heard of this argument in an MMO.


ive seen some harvesters complaining they cant get crystals already
but that was besides the point, the point is, people will always feel they are being punished or it is unfair for their have nots, rather then what they actualy do get
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#25 Nov 21 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
Yes correctly it takes around 2-4 hours if you decline delivery from this i would say around 2-3 hours, 2 is sure because once I've checked how much time passes when i do all the Craft Leaves.


The average time it takes me to craft an item for a leve is about 30-40 seconds. There's an average of 4 items per leve quest. You get 8 levequests. If you do the math, unless you're doing something wrong or your connection is severely laggy, you finish in about 20-35 minutes if you do them all non-stop.

So either I am actually a superhero born with the exceptionally talented ability to craft at lightning fast speeds or you are just doing it exceptionally slow. 2-4 hours just sounds extreme.


If you're grabbing all 8 leves from one city, sure. Considering the facility support buff lasts for 10 minutes and the most synths I've been able to complete with that buff active is 8 (excluding Hasty Hand goodness), we could safely say it takes approximately 1 minute/synth from the time the material entry box pops up to the time you hit "Finish". Your estimate sounds a little off. 8 leves with an average of 5 synths/leve would be about 40 minutes if you picked them all up in one spot and didn't have to go talk to any NPCs for mats and you were either doing 8 leves for the same class or you had full gear swap macros for every DoH class you were using. Then you've got the turn-ins. And if you're selecting leves from multiple cities like I do to try and maximize rank 20+ leves to target guild marks for a specific class, then ya, 2-4 hours sounds pretty reasonable.

More specific to the OP's point, nobody is being "punished" for not enjoying crafting. It's not a competition. The people earning XP from crafting are doing something that earns XP. They're not getting XP for standing around with their tools equipped.

When people who focus on DoW/DoM classes have to go down to the retainer wards and buy the mobs they plan to kill or head out and kill mobs that drop mobs that grant xp, then you can talk about being "punished" for not liking crafting. Crafting xp appears to be tuned with the idea in mind that crafters can't just sit down and mash out one synth after another for days on end. They need mats and they need shards and if either one of those things is missing from their inventory, they get nothing for xp. And the xp offsets the time spent doing things that don't earn xp in preparation for those things that do.
#26 Nov 21 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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So lame, you're just looking at it wrong. You're not punished, getting punished would be like loosing levels or skills because you don't craft. You're just not getting the benefits of crafting, but you're definitely not getting punished.
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#27 Nov 21 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Soon enough your physical level will be capped, you may perform slightly worse than someone who is well rounded and levels a variety of classes, thus their physical level is higher than any of their skill ranks. It won't matter for long, and it won't affect end game, or leveling a second class later on, so really it's a minor bonus for well rounded players, whether they're leveling many disciplines of war, magic or gathering or crafting.
#28 Nov 21 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Fact stays: this game more or less forces players to craft.
Some like it, most don't care, some don't like it.
I wonder whether SE can affor losing those who don't.


I honestly think it's the other way around--that most DO NOT like it, and is a large part of the reason there are only like 600-700 concurrent players at any give time. Personally, I hate crafting with a passion, but I'm not forced to do it for physical XP, I'm forced to do it for repairs. I think it's a lazy and un-engaging mechanic that is less entertaining than Happy Meal LCD games.
#29 Nov 21 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I honestly think it's the other way around--that most DO NOT like it, and is a large part of the reason there are only like 600-700 concurrent players at any give time. Personally, I hate crafting with a passion, but I'm not forced to do it for physical XP, I'm forced to do it for repairs. I think it's a lazy and un-engaging mechanic that is less entertaining than Happy Meal LCD games.


I personally know more people that enjoy crafting than the battle system at this point. I can understand someone plain not liking it but to say most people hate crafting is stupid.
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#30 Nov 21 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
I honestly think it's the other way around--that most DO NOT like it, and is a large part of the reason there are only like 600-700 concurrent players at any give time. Personally, I hate crafting with a passion, but I'm not forced to do it for physical XP, I'm forced to do it for repairs. I think it's a lazy and un-engaging mechanic that is less entertaining than Happy Meal LCD games.


I personally know more people that enjoy crafting than the battle system at this point. I can understand someone plain not liking it but to say most people hate crafting is stupid.


this is the case for me
i enjoy the crafting more, but it was moreso something i fell into to begin with cuz there were too many people crowding the starter areas on opening day

so i started crafting, i enjoyed it, and im sticking to it
i go out and fight when i can, but i am doing so only to resuply my crafting


everyone will have something they enjoy doing more in the game, but that doesnt make the other aspects any less enjoyable as a whole in the game itself as a general opinion(just cuz you dont like something doesnt mean everyone shouldnt like it)
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#31 Nov 21 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
Shijou, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:
Physical level isn't really that big of a deal. Don't worry about it too much, you'll cap it in no time just leveling low level crafts.



Pretty much this. I never bothered with physical level my pug is 36 and phys is 40.
#32 Nov 21 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Just level a bunch of crafts to 10, its cheap and its really not hard. I don't see how people stay productive if all they do is try to level DoW/DoM. Parties aren't always available, so you may as well do something productive in the time between. I don't see what the big deal about crafting is. It can be profitable, it can support your DoW, and it really isn't that painfull. Just do 30 crafts a day. And really, you don't need to have a physical level 40. Spend your stat points wisely and you will be fine. If you want to have that boost just suck it up and craft, it really isn't bad, it just seems like you want to hate it.
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#33 Nov 21 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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EmiyaShirou wrote:
Quote:
It takes like 20 minutes of your time to do 8 crafting leves every couple of days.

Strange... because it usually takes 2 to 4 hours to do my Craft Leaves every Leave Reset... so something with your 20 isn't right here ^^"


2-4 hours

Only way I spent that amount of time was when I SEMI afk.

It takes me about 1 hour and some of that is travelling.
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#34 Nov 21 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
Yes correctly it takes around 2-4 hours if you decline delivery from this i would say around 2-3 hours, 2 is sure because once I've checked how much time passes when i do all the Craft Leaves.


The average time it takes me to craft an item for a leve is about 30-40 seconds. There's an average of 4 items per leve quest. You get 8 levequests. If you do the math, unless you're doing something wrong or your connection is severely laggy, you finish in about 20-35 minutes if you do them all non-stop.

So either I am actually a superhero born with the exceptionally talented ability to craft at lightning fast speeds or you are just doing it exceptionally slow. 2-4 hours just sounds extreme.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 10:30am by Rjain


this cant be right, i run on a fast connection and it take me about almost 2hr to do the levecrafting, and its not your connection that dictates it its there's.
#35 Nov 21 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
this cant be right, i run on a fast connection and it take me about almost 2hr to do the levecrafting, and its not your connection that dictates it its there's.


I must be superhuman.

No, it does not take 2 hours to do leves. It takes 2 hours if you're slow or laggy. It should not take an hour maximum if you're playing at an optimal pace. 20 is on the very fast end (and I was referring to crafting time not delivery time) but even counting ALL the aspects of the leves (obtaining, crafting, and delivery), I have never gone over one hour unless I was lagging terribly.

I have absolutely no clue where everybody gets this 2-4 hour crap from. Due to my schedule sometimes I can't play for a few days and I end up doing 32 leves (two days of leves stacked). There have been times I've done all 32 leves in under 3 or 4 hours. How is it taking people 2-4 hours to craft?

Really?

Really?

Maybe I have a time machine installed in my computer allowing me to slow down time if so I apologize for being wrong. If this is not the case then I'm out of words for you.
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#36 Nov 21 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
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I honestly think it's the other way around--that most DO NOT like it, and is a large part of the reason there are only like 600-700 concurrent players at any give time. Personally, I hate crafting with a passion, but I'm not forced to do it for physical XP, I'm forced to do it for repairs. I think it's a lazy and un-engaging mechanic that is less entertaining than Happy Meal LCD games.


I personally know more people that enjoy crafting than the battle system at this point. I can understand someone plain not liking it but to say most people hate crafting is stupid.


Your anecdotal evidence is basically akin to polling the patrons of a Mexican Restaurant on whether or not they like Mexican food. Of course most people still playing are either indifferent or enjoy crafting, but that says nothing of the 60-70% that have already quit, or the millions of other prospective customers. To me, it seems like common sense that a vast majority of the general public is not going to enjoy a dirt simple menu and prompt driven crafting system that is as repetitive as working an assembly line and has a lot in common with watching paint dry. Regardless of what my opinion is on something, it's pretty obvious when something is going to be an acquired or minority taste, and XIV's crafting system is definitely one. Historically, it's clear crafting is not an enjoyable aspect for most people, you need only look at most MMO's or SE's own XI for evidence, where the vast majority of players simply don't engage in it. Why do you think SE is doing everything in their power to force crafting on players in the first place? It is a disliked mechanic.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 3:58pm by Furia
#37 Nov 21 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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That's like whining because someone who's only leveled 3 DoM/DoW jobs are getting punished in comparison to those who have leveled all DoM/DoW jobs just because the people who have leveled all DoM/DoW jobs have access to a larger selection of abilities.

Edit: Long and short of it: Those who spend more time in the game are just going to have a higher physical level or selection of abilities. Period. They've earned it.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 2:55pm by Gadhelyn
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#38 Nov 21 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Your anecdotal evidence


Until you come in here with some facts yourself I don't think you're in as good of a situation.

You see, when I was born I was the most beautiful baby boy to ever grace the surface of this planet. At the time there was a jealous, evil, wicked witch who did not like me. She cast a most heinous curse on me which makes everything I say the cold hard truth. I am unable to lie and people are offended by my crude, cold hard facts.
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#39 Nov 21 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
this cant be right, i run on a fast connection and it take me about almost 2hr to do the levecrafting, and its not your connection that dictates it its there's.


I must be superhuman.

No, it does not take 2 hours to do leves. It takes 2 hours if you're slow or laggy. It should not take an hour maximum if you're playing at an optimal pace. 20 is on the very fast end (and I was referring to crafting time not delivery time) but even counting ALL the aspects of the leves (obtaining, crafting, and delivery), I have never gone over one hour unless I was lagging terribly.

I have absolutely no clue where everybody gets this 2-4 hour crap from. Due to my schedule sometimes I can't play for a few days and I end up doing 32 leves (two days of leves stacked). There have been times I've done all 32 leves in under 3 or 4 hours. How is it taking people 2-4 hours to craft?

Really?

Really?

Maybe I have a time machine installed in my computer allowing me to slow down time if so I apologize for being wrong. If this is not the case then I'm out of words for you.


Can i use your time machine so i can go into the past and stop my self from eating white castles burgers that gave me heart burn =P
#40 Nov 21 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
this cant be right, i run on a fast connection and it take me about almost 2hr to do the levecrafting, and its not your connection that dictates it its there's.


I must be superhuman.

No, it does not take 2 hours to do leves. It takes 2 hours if you're slow or laggy. It should not take an hour maximum if you're playing at an optimal pace. 20 is on the very fast end (and I was referring to crafting time not delivery time) but even counting ALL the aspects of the leves (obtaining, crafting, and delivery), I have never gone over one hour unless I was lagging terribly.

I have absolutely no clue where everybody gets this 2-4 hour crap from. Due to my schedule sometimes I can't play for a few days and I end up doing 32 leves (two days of leves stacked). There have been times I've done all 32 leves in under 3 or 4 hours. How is it taking people 2-4 hours to craft?

Really?

Really?

Maybe I have a time machine installed in my computer allowing me to slow down time if so I apologize for being wrong. If this is not the case then I'm out of words for you.


Start reading. People claiming 2-4 hours are including turn-ins. No, you're not completing a synth in 30-40 seconds. It takes 10 **** seconds just to get from the empty item entry pane to actual synthesis. So assuming you're using Standard Synthesis with a maximum of 20 progress gained per action, if you're synthing things 20 ranks below you that are succeeding on every action for maximum gain, you're taking 5 actions to complete every synthesis and 5 seconds after hitting "Finish" to get back to the item entry pane. Right there you're looking at 40 seconds. That's your apparent top end estimate for how long it takes you to do each synthesis. That's not affording you any time for Bold Synthesis (max 10 progress gain/action). And if you're using Rapid Synthesis for local leves, ur doin it wrong.

And I don't know about you, but when I'm doing leves 0-10 ranks below me, I'm not getting a full 20 progress with every action. I may have a really good synth with no failed actions, but even those are going to include actions that only yield 15-18 progress, meaning more actions and more time. Activating abilities (ie. Maker's Muse) adds more time. 30-40 seconds per synth? You're exaggerating. And when 8 leves at an average of 5 items/leve requires a total of 40 items, you're not getting all 8 leves done in 20 minutes. Ever.

Ever.

It's simple math.
#41 Nov 21 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I call BS on the 20min get 8 crafting leves done. Not possible in under an hour even. I hate crafting though I do it because it is only efficient way to fix gear and it almost necessary to increase physical level at a decent rate. Could be one of the reasons why I haven't turned on the game in a week and may never turn it on again. Still waiting for fixes.
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#42 Nov 21 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
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Again the people complaining about me not reading are the people not reading themselves. The 20 mins thing is exclusive to the crafting, only crafting, not picking up and not delivering (and that's on the fast side of things). And that was just a random statement in the first place but the pedantic police come in trying to spread the truth. All 8 leves, with obtaining and delivery included, take me about 40 minutes. I will repeat, I never take more than an HOUR unless I am lagging terribly. If you do, that's your own problem tough luck.

2-4 hours for 8 local leves is mindboggling and makes absolutely no sense to me unless people sit there jacking off to their characters while they are doing it. As I mentioned earlier, there are times I've had to do two days worth of leves and was on a tight schedule, and I performed all of them in under 4 hours. That's 32 leves.

I don't give a dead moose's last sh*t if people don't believe me. I've done it, I've seen others do it, it's not that difficult.

There are people who beat Super Mario in like 5 mins, Metroid Prime in 50 minutes, and even more ludicrous feats. And yet some of the nincompoops here think it's impossible to do leves at what I consider a completely normal rate? If you are taking over 1 hour to do 8 local leves there is a problem.

Edit: Actually I was mixing up Metroid Prime with something else the record is around 1 hour 20 mins or so.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 4:48pm by Rjain
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#43 Nov 21 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Cheesdog wrote:
I call BS on the 20min get 8 crafting leves done. Not possible in under an hour even. I hate crafting though I do it because it is only efficient way to fix gear and it almost necessary to increase physical level at a decent rate. Could be one of the reasons why I haven't turned on the game in a week and may never turn it on again. Still waiting for fixes.


Actually it is possible if you choose all the hard leves, use your damaged rank 1 tool, no crafting gears and hit Bold everytime........
#44 Nov 21 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
Again the people complaining about me not reading are the people not reading themselves. The 20 mins thing is exclusive to the crafting, only crafting, not picking up and not delivering (and that's on the fast side of things). And that was just a random statement in the first place but the pedantic police come in trying to spread the truth. All 8 leves, with obtaining and delivery included, take me about 40 minutes. I will repeat, I never take more than an HOUR unless I am lagging terribly. If you do, that's your own problem tough luck.

2-4 hours for 8 local leves is mindboggling and makes absolutely no sense to me unless people sit there jacking off to their characters while they are doing it. As I mentioned earlier, there are times I've had to do two days worth of leves and was on a tight schedule, and I performed all of them in under 4 hours. That's 32 leves.

I don't give a dead moose's last sh*t if people don't believe me. I've done it, I've seen others do it, it's not that difficult.

There are people who beat Super Mario in like 5 mins, Metroid Prime in 50 minutes, and even more ludicrous feats. And yet some of the nincompoops here think it's impossible to do leves at what I consider a completely normal rate? If you are taking over 1 hour to do 8 local leves there is a problem.

Edit: Actually I was mixing up Metroid Prime with something else the record is around 1 hour 20 mins or so.

Edited, Nov 21st 2010 4:48pm by Rjain


or you can use fraps, or xfire and record yourself doing 8 levequest in 20 mins and post it to you tube, i mean in this day in age we have many option and resources to record progress, please enlighten us.
#45 Nov 21 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
or you can use fraps, or xfire and record yourself doing 8 levequest in 20 mins and post it to you tube, i mean in this day in age we have many option and resources to record progress, please enlighten us.


Or you can read what I said.
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#46 Nov 21 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:
Again the people complaining about me not reading are the people not reading themselves. The 20 mins thing is exclusive to the crafting, only crafting, not picking up and not delivering (and that's on the fast side of things). And that was just a random statement in the first place but the pedantic police come in trying to spread the truth. All 8 leves, with obtaining and delivery included, take me about 40 minutes. I will repeat, I never take more than an HOUR unless I am lagging terribly. If you do, that's your own problem tough luck.

2-4 hours for 8 local leves is mindboggling and makes absolutely no sense to me unless people sit there jacking off to their characters while they are doing it. As I mentioned earlier, there are times I've had to do two days worth of leves and was on a tight schedule, and I performed all of them in under 4 hours. That's 32 leves.


You're starting to cross the line between ignorant and offensive, so just stop for a minute and pay close attention.

You are NOT completing 8 leves in 20 minutes. The way the system is set up, it's a mathematical impossibility unless you're using Hasty Hand. I've already explained why that is, so stop pretending like you're talking to a bunch of people who have no idea what crafting is all about. I just timed it between my last post where I explained it and now. I have a fast connection and a very fast PC crafting way the **** off in a remote corner of LL where there wasn't a single player anywhere near me much less dozens to produce lag. Your numbers don't add up. It's as simple as that.

Quote:
I don't give a dead moose's last sh*t if people don't believe me. I've done it, I've seen others do it, it's not that difficult.


Tell me, oh crafting guru, just where you're getting your leves from? Are you taking all 8 local leves from one city? Because the people taking 2-4 hours to do 8 leves usually aren't. Most 20+ crafters I know hop through all three cities every reset trying to get local leves that can award guild marks with their preferred DoH class(es). That takes time. Turn ins to remote camps take time, and if you don't do the turn ins you don't get the marks. And if you try to port to all these places, you'll be out of anima in a week. Let's see you pick up leves in LL, crank out your 2-4 leves there, drop them off at Camp Bald Knoll/Iron Lake, head to Ul'dah and pick up leves there, backtracking to Camp Horizon to turn in before heading off to Gridania to pick up your last couple of local leves and turning them in at Camp Nine Ivies/Tranquil. And do it in less than 2 hours. You can't. Unless you've got a bunch of people standing around to port you as soon as you're ready, you've got a lot of running ahead of you.

Quote:
There are people who beat Super Mario in like 5 mins, Metroid Prime in 50 minutes, and even more ludicrous feats. And yet some of the nincompoops here think it's impossible to do leves at what I consider a completely normal rate? If you are taking over 1 hour to do 8 local leves there is a problem.


The only problem here is someone who has no clue getting awfully abrasive when people who don't do things the way you do it are trying to explain why it takes considerably longer than an hour to do 8 local leves. Rank 20+ local leves are hard to find. I found a total of five rank 20+ armorer leves after the reset last night...and that was from all three cities. And that was an exceptionally good reset. I'm frequently lucky to get three rank 20+ leves. I fill up the rest to my 8 leve quota with weaver/leatherworking leves (also 20+ for marks). And when it's all said and done, I usually end up taking 2 hours minimum just to do all the turn-ins. Those are the facts. I don't care if that's what you do...it's what people who are driving for guild marks do, and it's a far cry from "jerking off at their character."
#47 Nov 21 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You are NOT completing 8 leves in 20 minutes.


I stopped right there because you are obviously not even reading any of my posts so why should I even bother to read yours?
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#48 Nov 21 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rjain wrote:
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You are NOT completing 8 leves in 20 minutes.


I stopped right there because you are obviously not even reading any of my posts so why should I even bother to read yours?


I have read your posts, and I'm telling you that you're wrong. Do the math. 8 local leves would work out to 40 total synths on average. You're not completing a synth in 30 seconds. Not a chance. Even if you lucked out and got all 8 leves with 4 total synths per leve, you're still not getting all 8 done in 20 minutes. So instead of playing the, "I'm right even though all evidence tells me that I'm wrong because I've SEEN it," explain exactly how you're managing this miraculous feat or STFU.
#49 Nov 21 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Most 20+ crafters I know hop through all three cities every reset trying to get local leves that can award guild marks with their preferred DoH class(es).

I respect most of your posts, Aurelius, but your sample is just that; your sample.

Take me for example; I stick to one city, take all 8 regional and local leve there and end the day by taking the boat to the other city (LL < > Uldah). I only take crafting leves that take me where I plan to go hunt (or take combat leves where my crafts take me) and I pick leves from any of the 8 crafting jobs because I want to minimize my "solo content" (16 leves) and allow myself some group-time every day to just play with friends and LS-mates.

That being said with leves providing 6-8 items, and 8 leves to do, 20 minutes is unreasonable. Rjain did correct herself and say it can take 40 minutes --of crafting--, which sounds closer to my situation. Rjain, like myself, don't seem to consider the delivery time as part of doing the leve, and I agree with that way of calculating it. (I tend to get 5-6 leves that are done entirely inside ul'dah as a leatherworker, weaver and goldsmith; 3 from Roarich and 3 from Uwilsyng. That usually leaves me 2 leves for Horizon, where I go play my rank20 jobs)
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#50 Nov 21 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
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Rjain wrote:
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You are NOT completing 8 leves in 20 minutes.


I stopped right there because you are obviously not even reading any of my posts so why should I even bother to read yours?


Probably because he's posting actual evidence as to why you're full of ****, and you're doing the same thing as sticking your finger in your ears and shouting "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"?
#51 Nov 21 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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That's funny because if you did read my posts Aurelius you would have noticed I said I do it in 40 minutes, not 20 minutes. Had you have read the post that you even quoted a few posts up, you would have noticed that the 20 mins was originally a random statement on the "fast side of things" just counting in the crafting itself. That wasn't me saying I do it in 20 minutes all of the time. I've been saying throughout this thread that "I do not take more than an hour" and that taking more than an hour is wrong. It is you dodos that keep pressing on the stupid 20 minute thing.

I am a person who loves to nitpick and press on minor details, but even this is sickening me. You will argue the most mundane things incessantly without even reading what the other person says. Did you even notice my signature? You know, how I don't have any crafts up past 20 yet? At this point most of my leves yield 20% progress all the way through except for the ones around level 15 which are slightly more difficult. I didn't take the guild marks thing into consideration because I'm not at that point yet, but you would have noticed that if you were observant.

It amuses me to no end when people will spend this much time arguing something when I originally said I don't even give a **** about it. I have some fun with these stupid arguments but then it gets to a point when it just gets retarded and begins to worry me that people will get this upset over this crap than some real issues in the world.
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