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Crafters, and YOUFollow

#102 Nov 22 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:

where on the other hand I LOOSE GIL EITHER WAY.
so i'm not getting it for free.

But you see, this is none of my concern.
You lose 100gil, you lose 1,000 gil, you lose 1mil gil, I don't make or lose a single dime.

Irishclass777 wrote:

sure you gain nothing but you don;t loose nothing its called
BREAKING EVEN.

If I just sit around and idle, I'm also 'breaking even'.
I gain nothing, I lose nothing.
Now tell me again, why should I repair your equipment?

Irishclass777 wrote:
so with what you guys are saying. since i need a healer to party ishould pay them a fee to do so? That is what you guys are doing.

No, because of mutual benefits.
The healer is gaining SP/EXP in the process. That is his drive to work.
If you have a healer which is not getting SP/EXP for healing you (eg. power-leveling), I don't see why you shouldn't pay him.

#103 Nov 22 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
1 that isn't calling someone stupid
but stupid is as stupid does.
and everyone in here complaining about my OPiNION.'
need to rethink how you stuff works.
1 i spend money on mats
2 you do not spend money on mats
3 sp is sp. you guys are over charing ppl who give you mats plain and simple.
you guys atre acting like a while who requires a fee to party.
and whm or healers rather are a must and a need.
so with what you guys are saying. since i need a healer to party ishould pay them a fee to do so? That is what you guys are doing.
i can see paying you if i have no mats. Since you would have to spend money.
but clicking the buttons to craft/repair is not doing physical labor. and begging and requiring a rewards is asinine for the reasons you guys want it.
i can easiliy triple charge you for mats to do repairs easy for your reasons. since it was pain staking to earn gil, run around to find the mats by them then find your sorry excuse of a crafter.


You are not playing the game. You have zero knowledge that I or anyone else in this thread have ever overcharged someone on a repair AFTER they gave us the repair mats. You yourself have never been overcharged for a repair. Yet you want to accuse us of being greedy con-men? Really?

Buy the game, create an account and character, take your ****** attitude in there and experience things for yourself then get back to me...
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#104Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i spend money on gear you make
#105 Nov 22 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i can charge crafter the mats they need to repair my items since again supply and demand


This is solid deduction....I think I need to rethink my argumet...not wait....I need to rethink my life...
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

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#106 Nov 22 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
i spend money on gear you make

Oh wait, did you provide the mats for that as well?

Quote:
i spend money to repair that gear

See all 100 of the above posts

Quote:
1 spend money to level to get you items TO craft with.

Last I checked, levequests didn't cost anything to get.

Now give me all of your gil MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#107Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) how about all you crafter take yoyr repair fees and shove it. I was just stating my opinion all you guys proved wad how stupid and greedy you are. I refused to be scamed by a no life I'm only in it for the reward
#108 Nov 22 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ xenith
by your logic then.
i can charge crafter the mats they need to repair my items since again supply and demand
like i said crafters should NEVERA CHARGE A FEE IF THAT FEE IS BEING PAID FOR IN ADVANCE. AKA PRICE FOR THE MATS. why should i soend a ton of money on not only mays but someone asinine concet of labor?
sorry no thanks. I can craft myself easy. I enjoy it.
you guys really need to rethink that repair fee and supply and demand.
i don;t demand you to repair. I ask, and will compensate your time with items so all you need to do is repair.
what you gain is not having to spend money, not having to run around, not having to look for mats to repair.
that should be good enough. I can see you having to pay for the mays and asking for payment.
but it asinine if i gotta pay twice to fix a weapon/gear that might be cheaper just buying a new 1 and droping the old.


You CAN charge them, but my logic is supply and demand. Which is a widely accepted economic theory. Your point lacks demand, hence you'd be unable to do so as other people will supply. The supply and demand intersection is fairly low for your proposed idea. I'm not saying anything is fair or not. I'm being unbiased in all this. I'm just stating how the system is implemented. Eventually, everything will fall into place.

If I had to throw in my opinion. I'd provide the material for repair and tip a bit. I'm too lazy to get crafting up to where I'd be able to repair everything. I used to tip in FFXI and even in WoW. I think the crafters normally appreciate it. Mind you, since repairing is MUCH more common than making items, tips won't be crazy amount of gil, but enough to show I'm thankful
#109Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) YOU GUYS ARE SO INTO PERSONAL GAIN YOU FAIL TO EVEN UNDERSTAND ANYTHING I STATED. YOU GUYS JUST PLAIN FAIL PERIOD.
#110 Nov 22 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
tmproff wrote:
Quote:
1 i spend money on mats
2 you do not spend money on mats
3 sp is sp. you guys are over charing ppl who give you mats plain and simple.


1. I spend money on my level
2. You need my level to repair your crap
3. I have the right to ask for money (based on my skill) to repair your crap

i spend money on gear you make
i spend money to repair that gear
1 spend money to level to get you items TO craft with.
what do i gain? wow a 100% item gee golly wiz....
what i loose? all my gil.


1) You make money on the mats i need to make your gear, what i charge you is me making back that money so that i at least break even
2) again, you make money on the mats we need to repair your gear, on top of that, we have to use those mats to gain less skill, for more time, in order to get up, repair your gear, and hope you give us a fair tip.
3) the money you spend you more then make back, again, you are getting mats that we have to BUY, give it to us for free, and youll probly get free repairs


Point is here. Crafting cost a TON of money, and battlers act like repairs cost 10 times more then crafting does. well news flash, it doesnt.

I can spend my Ingot, which cost me 5+k to make(not counting the 5+ minutes to make if note more in the case of some other items) in order to gain 300 SP leveling, or i can get 20 SP repairing your gear.


Let us not forget, you are not only paying us for the mats in some cases, but the time it took us to MAKE those mats. provide said mats for free, and youll be getting easier repairs.(by free i do not mean charging for the mat and offering the same for the repairs, that is NOT free, thats annoying)
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#111 Nov 22 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Default
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Irishclass777 wrote:
YOU GUYS ARE SO INTO PERSONAL GAIN YOU FAIL TO EVEN UNDERSTAND ANYTHING I STATED. YOU GUYS JUST PLAIN FAIL PERIOD.
TO ASK FOR PAYMEN WHEN I'M SPENDING MY MONEY ON MATS SO YOU DON;T TO REPAIR MY GEAR I THINK IS MIRE THEN FAIR COMPROMISE.
I COULD BE A COMPLETE B*TCH AND FORCE YOU TO PAY MONEY TO REPAIR MUST STUFF AND NOT GIVE YOU A CENT BACK.
THAT BASICALLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. WITH SPENDING TIME GETTING MATS FROM HUNTING AND BUYING I MAY AS WELL JUST BUY NEAR GEAR IF MINE BREAK.

Wait wait, I specifically said I wasn't attacking you. I neither agree nor disagree with you. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that you have it. People may not agree and that's life.
#112 Nov 22 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
how about all you crafter take yoyr repair fees and shove it. I was just stating my opinion all you guys proved wad how stupid and greedy you are. I refused to be scamed by a no life I'm only in it for the reward
get a life.
more to this or any game then your personal reward.
ims craft the sec i can actually use my CE i did buy
and not charge anyone repairs if they gimi mats,


Maybe the UI will be updated and the repair process streamlined by the time you get into the game. As it stands now, it's neither quick nor the least bit entertaining for most people to do repairs for other players.

Quote:
as i understand its rude to ask since all i am doing is siting on my @** and pushing buttons.
its not all that hard.


What you just described is what anyone is doing when they're playing an MMO. You're not paying someone for pushing buttons. You're paying them for their time. And when I'm effectively doubling the durable life of each piece I repair and you're offering me 1/20th what the NPC is offering to do it, you're not being very nice.
#113 Nov 22 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
i don't stop random ppl. Nor do most ppl. If anything i ask if they are busy. If so i don;t bother them further. But anyway further my 0-hat drop example.
its was hard to hunt/buy all the eyes needed. and if you bought the eyes it ranged from 10-50K for each eye. (this was when i got it years ago) so i spent weeks to hunt for them, or spent about 90-100K on them just to shout for help and have to pay them 500K just to craft it?
I hope the more detailed helps you see it from my point.
I'd assume knowing ppl, plauers shout for repair needs. And is up to the crafter to repair or not. If you wasn't doing anything, why should you charge a fee when presented items. All you are doing is spending 1-5 min max fixing an item.
Like why should I spend say 50K gil to get mats to repair my items only to pay an addition 10K, just because your doing the service.
In a sence the customer did nost of the work, you just do the easy part.
why should ypu get paid not not doing as much of the work for said item?

you have no understanding of economics.

you aren't paying him for the repair...you are paying him for all the time he spent ranking the craft to the point he could repair your gear...you did jack **** in comparison.

and you are acting like gil isn't east to come by...i don't really care though, as you'll get to a point where no one will bother repairing your gear or crafting anything for you because you don't bother compensating.

you can't compare this game to xi in this regard because gil there is a ridiculous amount of it in the eoncomy atm.
#114Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xenith. I'm all about what you just said. I did the same in both also.
#115 Nov 22 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
Xenith. I'm all about what you just said. I did the same in both also.
I also got scamed alot also.
like with my O-hat. i should for a crafter i have him all the eyes i bought. farms (took me 3 weeks + 100K gil) he crafted the item then said i had to pay a 500K fee for making it. I gave him everything and took a biig 1 min out of his day. He even refused to give it back saying he was gonna sell it if i didn't give him the money.
thats exacting how you crafters are acting.
Sorry but that is a scammer in my book.
don;t matter the game, crafts cost money to level whether it a class or just a side job. ffxiv isn't the only mmo where crafting is a class i seen a few f2p mmo and i don't mean like main hub instanced zone.
ffxiv is the only crafting that its crafters are greedy enough to ask for a "i level my craft you must psy me" fee. thats all it is. I'm paying you to be a crafter on top of the stuff i buy from you.
they my fine ppl is a scamer.


let me make this as easy for you as possible

1) if you dont play the game, dont knock it, you obviously are clueless as to how easy it is to get gil in this game

2) if your not willing to pay a crafter, enjoy not having any gear or repairs
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#116Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) sorry i;m not paying money to a crafter to craft. For the sake of crafting
#117Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ ved don't assume you know wtf is going on. :)
#118 Nov 22 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
sorry i;m not paying money to a crafter to craft. For the sake of crafting
only payment they need and fairly deserve is gil to by items they need for any repair or craft i ask of them
asking for gil on top of that is very VEry RUDE. and a completely joke.
how about start parting Dom/Dow/Doh for their time they spent on leveling their jobs they they pay for, just so you can get better mats.
oh and as per your logic buying the mat isn't the same. you gotta pay the labor fee.


Maybe we're just misunderstanding you.

Do you mean you're giving 2x of the material?

Like if I want you to make me a Grilled Carp, are you giving them enough materials for (Grilled Carp you want) + (Extra grilled carp for the crafter)?

Because then it's perfectly and compeletely reasonable.

Similarly, for repairs, are you giving them (Velveteen fent for you) + (Velveteen fent for them to keep) ?

Or are you seriously trying to get them to do free things for you?
#119 Nov 22 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
sorry i;m not paying money to a crafter to craft. For the sake of crafting
only payment they need and fairly deserve is gil to by items they need for any repair or craft i ask of them
asking for gil on top of that is very VEry RUDE. and a completely joke.
how about start parting Dom/Dow/Doh for their time they spent on leveling their jobs they they pay for, just so you can get better mats.
oh and as per your logic buying the mat isn't the same. you gotta pay the labor fee.


sorry i;m not paying money to a battler to battle. For the sake of battling
only payment they need and fairly deserve is gil to repair items they need for any battle i ask of them
asking for gil on top of that is very VEry RUDE. and a completely joke.
how about start parting Dol/Doh for their time they spent on leveling their jobs they they pay for, just so you can get better gear.
oh and as per your logic buying the repair and gear isn't the same. you gotta pay the labor fee.

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#120 Nov 22 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's a reason that classes in Final Fantasy are called "Jobs." A Job is something you do to maintain livelihood for yourself and/or your family.

DoW/DoM jobs are high risk and high reward. You go out and brave the elements with your sword and shield or cane or scepter, and triumph over adversity in the hopes of earning tons of gil or getting nice items either to help you kill bigger things for better rewards or to sell for a nice profit. You earn shards with every kill on top of your normal leve rewards, and generally have a great time of it. Sometimes, you travel in packs and offer your skills to others to get even bigger rewards in the form of SP gains or even better loot that it takes a party to wrest from the hands/claws/eyestalks of bigger and badder baddies. You come home with a sack of gil, backpacks laden with treasure, armor, weapons, baubles, etc... and trashed gear.

DoL jobs are low risk with medium reward. Mostly you wander around unscathed with your pickaxe/hatchet/rod looking for sweet looking trees/mountains/lakes to plunder. At the end of the day, you probably haven't had to face any mortal danger unless you've been drinking heavily and drive your own pick into your eye/play chainsaw vs arm/embed your lure hook in your ******. You come home with a bunch of shards, backpacks laden with raw materials you will be eager to sell your DoH buddies... and trashed gear.

DoH jobs are low risk with... wtf do you mean I have to pay for all these shards?!? So, if I want to do my job, I'm completely reliant on the others for materials and shards minus the paltry leve reward materials and maybe 100 shards if I do all 8 every 36 hours? Well, if I plan to get level 40+ in any given craft, it's going to cost me as much time or more than it took you to get there by slaying baddies or chopping/mining/fishing, but I have to somehow earn enough gil to buy all these mats to complete synths... I KNOW! I'll sell the things I make! So, let's see... to skill up to 10 where I can make decent stuff people might want, I'll need to just make these copper nuggets and turn them into copper squares, then turn those into copper toes. Phew. Ok, I bought 4 yellow copper ore from one of those miner guys for 250 each, and a fire crystal from that mage over there for 2500. Sweet, now I have 12 copper nuggets... why that's like 48 squares, which is 24 copper toes! Uh oh... every one of these square synths takes 6 earth shards. 72 earth shards coming up... that's another 15k down the drain, but man, I'm really levelling up like a boss here! Ok, time for toes... 24 synths using 1 wind shard and 5 more earth shards. Ok, 24 @ 300 and 120 @ 200... Dear god. Well, if I cut back to half a loaf of bread per day and drink water, I guess I can afford it. 31,200 gil later, I'm back in business! Ok, I have my 24 copper toes, I'm Rank 7 Armorer, and it only cost me 49,500 gil! So, to turn a profit, I need to sell these toes for at least 2063 gil each... My bazaar is up... WHY AREN'T PEOPLE BUYING FROM ME?!?!?

Hey, there's my Gladiator pal! Hey bud... you made rank 7 today? Awesome! You made how much gil today?!? Holy crap... Oh... your stuff got mangled in the process. That's too bad... you know, I can fix your armor now! How much? Bwa... Bwahaha... BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What's that? Oh, nothing... 10 gil sounds great! I know that Gorgano guy was gonna charge you like 20 times that for a shoddy job... I'm just glad I could help you, my good buddy, out of a jam. Say, do you have any shards or crystals you could help me out with? 200 gil each? Well... ok. You don't happen to need any fine quality Copper Toes, do you? No? Didn't think so.
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#121 Nov 22 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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We aren't making you do anything, nor are we 'stealing' your materials.

Have you ever walked into a store and saw an item you kinda liked, then looked at the price tag and said "That really isn't a good enough price to entice me to buy it."?

Would I rather craft, or would I rather repair your stuff?
Well, I personally, would rather craft.

You can keep your materials, and your broken armor, and I'll keep my time.
We both didn't gain or lose anything in that transaction, did we?

You can always use the NPC repairer for your weapon.
But if you are in a bind, and you need something from me... in this case, my skill and my time, then the burden is on you to entice me to want to do it for you. That's just how the world works.

Providing me with the opportunity to 'Not lose anything' isn't really much incentive, as I'm not going to lose anything anyway.

As for me buying a repair material, that's retarded. I would never purchase a repair material to repair someone else's stuff. What if its already repaired before I get to it? What if he changes the reward while I'm out? Too many ways to get stuck with a piece of junk in my inventory that I don't need. <no thanks>

If you don't want to entice me to repair your stuff, that's quite alright.
But you can't turn around and call foul because I don't -want- to.
This is a game, and games are about having fun. I -want- to go have fun playing it.

Repairing gear is -NOT- fun. If it were, you'd be repairing your own gear.
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#122 Nov 22 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Will work for shards and crystals.
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#123Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ i think of no one by myself OP
#124 Nov 22 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is the thing, I'm goving you mats for free, why do you got the right to charge me. If you do, expect to have to buy my items. is that do hard to understand? And not even talking about you guys having to buy mats to level up. But that should fall under same thing. I give you the mats to craft items i need. There is no reason to charge me extra.
twist it how you guys like it. But you guys would hate the reverse so why do it?

do you have any idea how insane this is?

why would anyone buy your mats to repair your gear? you seem to think you are doing them a favor by offering them the amazing once in a lifetime opportunity to repair your gear. in reality, they don't give a **** about you and your ****** compensation.

based on your posts here i would blist you without hesitation.
#125 Nov 22 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
based on your posts here i would blist you without hesitation


Me too.
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#126 Nov 22 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ i think of no one by myself OP
if i spend x abount of gil on matriels to get my stuff repaired what am I paying for?
why should i pay more gil just so you can sit and hit buttons.
i do most of ypur work for you. A crafter don't make gil from labor. If they did crafters would get more money in ffxi.
they don't a crafter only asks or gets the items in uestion worth. either gil for the items ( to buy the mats) or the customer gives the crafter the mats. making it so all the crafter needs to do is craft.
the crafter isn't running around spending THEIR money.
Which would cause the fee to occure.
if i provide you mats out of my own pocket, i should have to pay you for nothing.
you guys are being very imature. you guys are making money selling you items you craft. Sorry if the profit isn't to your liking. But welcome to mmo launch.
but you have no right to get items from someone and tell them "ok now i need a 5K fee just to sit here and press buttons"
sorry but not happening.
all that does is scream scam.



again, im telling you this

THIS IS NOT FFXI

so stop the comparison


also, if your not willing to tip, then dont get mad when someone doesnt want to take their time to do something for you


same thing goes for crafters, if you dont wanna pay the price for the mats, dont get mad that you have no mats(though i will say some battlers are WAY overcharging for certain grade 1 mats)
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#127Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) then by all means be greedy a** b*tches.
#128 Nov 22 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
then by all means be greedy a** b*tches.
it will bit you one day when the lazy masses will see how asinine it is to give someone gil for no reason.
i for one and smart enough to realise what yall doing is a scam
at this point i for one am happy not to play ffxiv.
ppl on ffxi are much nicer and less greedy
OH BTW CRAFTING ON FFXI COST MORE AND WORST THEN FFXIVS SYSTEM. and hey i don;t get charged "gimi gimi" fees to boot.


if you are not playing the game why do you care so much about how everyone that does play it does?

geeze go back to the games you are playing and leave us alone, people who are actualy playing the game are trying to have a discussion here
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#129Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:18 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ ved
#130 Nov 22 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ i think of no one by myself OP
if i spend x abount of gil on matriels to get my stuff repaired what am I paying for?
why should i pay more gil just so you can sit and hit buttons.
i do most of ypur work for you. A crafter don't make gil from labor. If they did crafters would get more money in ffxi.
they don't a crafter only asks or gets the items in uestion worth. either gil for the items ( to buy the mats) or the customer gives the crafter the mats. making it so all the crafter needs to do is craft.
the crafter isn't running around spending THEIR money.

See my example above where the poor starting armorer had to pay 50k gil to get to rank 7. Exponentially multiply this figure to get to rank 20 so he can repair your stuff. How does he recoup all the money he had to spend levelling his skill? He charges a premium for items he synths that others might want to purchase, and he is paid for repairs. Period. Again, if you don't like it, pay Gorgano the 28752 gil to repair your Hauby, and go about your happy business slaughtering efts. You will probably come out ahead in the long run. Your crafter friend most certainly will not.
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#131 Nov 22 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:

i do most of ypur work for you.


I gotta ask... what work did you done for me?

If you are referring to gathering the materials.... I wouldn't need the materials in the first place if I wasn't repairing your equipment.... and I don't get to keep the materials.

I did play FFXI and it is common for crafters to charge you (for things hard to find off the AH of course, things you find in the AH is already inclusive of the extra charge).

#132 Nov 22 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ i think of no one by myself OP
if i spend x abount of gil on matriels to get my stuff repaired what am I paying for?
why should i pay more gil just so you can sit and hit buttons.
i do most of ypur work for you. A crafter don't make gil from labor. If they did crafters would get more money in ffxi.
they don't a crafter only asks or gets the items in uestion worth. either gil for the items ( to buy the mats) or the customer gives the crafter the mats. making it so all the crafter needs to do is craft.
the crafter isn't running around spending THEIR money.
Which would cause the fee to occure.
if i provide you mats out of my own pocket, i should have to pay you for nothing.
you guys are being very imature. you guys are making money selling you items you craft. Sorry if the profit isn't to your liking. But welcome to mmo launch.
but you have no right to get items from someone and tell them "ok now i need a 5K fee just to sit here and press buttons"
sorry but not happening.
all that does is scream scam.


I don't think you understand how or why there is a repair feature in this game. I would say stick with the Repair NPC, and don't waste your gil on players if you feel that they are stealing your gil.

One of the reasons I am only at level 19 right now is that I have been trying to keep my crafts inline with repairing my own items to be more cost effective, and to be able to spend more time out exping when I want to exp. If I couldn't repair my own stuff, I would then have to worry about someone being out in the field that could repair for me. Me being the person in need would have to pay what I would consider acceptable to whatever they (the crafter) is willing to charge me. As I would not be in control in that situation, it becomes the crafter's responsibility to determine how much they can charge me before I would refuse service. This is a standard business practice. I believe this would qualify as a simple Cost and Need equation. It does not qualify as a scam because, they will provide the service. A scam is an implied service or product that is not provided as a result of payment.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 11:34am by rfolkker
#133 Nov 22 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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One can see irish is really frustrated about being scammed over his O-hat incident. It apparently has left a really deep scar in his MMO days.

Just in case you didn't know, it is impossible to scam someone with the FFXIV repair system. You put the item up in your bazaar for repairs, and offer what you think is worth the repair. The crafter chooses whether or not to repair said item or not, based on the offer. If you offer 10 gil, or the material needed for repairs and the crafter still repairs it for you, lucky you. The crafter has an altruistic side to him. At no time said incident with O-hat can actually occur unless you actually pass him your said item via trade.
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#134 Nov 22 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Okay, granted im no high level crafter yet, but here's how I deal with repairs in general.

Firstly, all of my current gear I can repair myself. I keep the materials necessary to do so, so I don't have to worry about running around trying to buy them. If someone wants me to repair an item using those materials, I'll charge a small fee for the service, after all its my materials im using up.

However, when someone has gone to the trouble to procure the items for me, and hands them to me for the repair, I am more than willing to repair your item free of charge. The reason for this should be simple. Virtually all crafting actions, including repairs, give bonus skill points. The amount of time it takes to actually repair these items is considerably faster than it would be to craft an entire item, Hasty Hand not withstanding.

It is my goal to continue levelling in a manner that leaves me self-sufficient enough to be able to repair my own gear as and when needed. The level needed to repair items is considerably lower than the crafting level needed to make the items themselves, just as the repair items generally have a lower crafting level than the item you're making them from (Cotton Fent is easier than Cotton Cloth, for example).

I have no problems with people charging for repairs, but the amount should at least be reasonable. Let's face it people, you're levelling your crafts as much for yourself as for others. You shouldn't be forcing players to pay for your levels through repair, you should be making your gil by selling your wares on. If they're supplying their own items, reduce your fees and make things more reasonable for them, if not repair it entirely free of charge.

No one should be asked to pay NPC repair prices when they're supplying their own repair mats.
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#135 Nov 22 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ved
sorry.... but they earn no tip. they earn no fee.
they should be god dang lucky i;m actually provinding them with mats from the get go not charging them a dime for it.
sorry i don't think doing something for nothing is cool
and thats every crafter here.
you guys literally are doing nothing.
you are not spending gil on mats. And i seriously do not think it takes that much time for repair.
see those over priced mats as karma...


I got news for you sunshine, I have 2 DoM classes to farm mats and shards, 2 DoH to gather mats, and plan on ranking up ALL my crafting classes. You want repairs for free, rank up your own crafting classes. Mats for repairs, as a weaver at cotton tier, it takes 1-2 cotton fent to repair cotton gear. Recipe for cotton fent http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/search.html?q=cotton+fent#Recipes , we are also at risk for failing at repairs, at the loss of said fent. Repairs are not free, the higher the tier in gear the more it costs.

If you cannot afford the cost of maintenace on your gear then you shouldn't be geared in that tier. (if you goto to the repair npc and say holy crap that's too much, you are in the wrong tier of gear). Don't blame crafters because you fail at know how to gear for your level.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 12:30pm by Spyrit178
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#136 Nov 22 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Glitterhands wrote:
Okay, granted im no high level crafter yet, but here's how I deal with repairs in general.

Firstly, all of my current gear I can repair myself. I keep the materials necessary to do so, so I don't have to worry about running around trying to buy them. If someone wants me to repair an item using those materials, I'll charge a small fee for the service, after all its my materials im using up.

However, when someone has gone to the trouble to procure the items for me, and hands them to me for the repair, I am more than willing to repair your item free of charge. The reason for this should be simple. Virtually all crafting actions, including repairs, give bonus skill points. The amount of time it takes to actually repair these items is considerably faster than it would be to craft an entire item, Hasty Hand not withstanding.

It is my goal to continue levelling in a manner that leaves me self-sufficient enough to be able to repair my own gear as and when needed. The level needed to repair items is considerably lower than the crafting level needed to make the items themselves, just as the repair items generally have a lower crafting level than the item you're making them from (Cotton Fent is easier than Cotton Cloth, for example).

I have no problems with people charging for repairs, but the amount should at least be reasonable. Let's face it people, you're levelling your crafts as much for yourself as for others. You shouldn't be forcing players to pay for your levels through repair, you should be making your gil by selling your wares on. If they're supplying their own items, reduce your fees and make things more reasonable for them, if not repair it entirely free of charge.

No one should be asked to pay NPC repair prices when they're supplying their own repair mats.



yes it is true, people shouldnt be trying to make all their money off repairs

but the issue isnt that we are charing alot, it is that we are charging at all

im a crafter, and even i ask for repairs now and then, i offer up 5k for my repairs as a tip usualy
its just customary, and polite to do so
for the really cheap stuff, i just toss a 5k repair up in my bazaar and someone grabs it rather quick usualy.

we arent asking for NPC prices, we are asking a fraction of that cost, and yet people still feel that we shouldnt be doing even that


well i got news for everyone complaining about repairs and crafters.

if you want it repaired and dont wanna pay us, level the craft yourself
if you cant be bothered to do that, then be willing to pay the price
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#137 Nov 22 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ved
sorry.... but they earn no tip. they earn no fee.
they should be god dang lucky i;m actually provinding them with mats from the get go not charging them a dime for it.
sorry i don't think doing something for nothing is cool
and thats every crafter here.
you guys literally are doing nothing.
you are not spending gil on mats. And i seriously do not think it takes that much time for repair.
see those over priced mats as karma...


keep rereading what i just bolded and keep asking yourself the following question: why would any crafter bother repairing your gear if you charge them for the mats to do it?

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 12:51pm by stripesonfire
#138 Nov 22 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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@irish

You don't HAVE to have a crafter repair your gear for you.

Crafters do not HAVE to repair your gear for you.

Providing or not providing the materials to have repairs made is not even an issue you should be stuck on. You WANT something (or service) someone has. You either agree to pay for said item or service that someone is charging for or you don't.

Your alternative is to find someone that will sell/provide you that item/service for however much you are willing to pay (or free) or make it/do it yourself.

You remind me of this university student that called Walmart evil, because they sell things for more than it cost to make it....

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 1:13pm by Longboots
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#139 Nov 22 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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This thread started out so nice. A very well put argument for why it is worth tipping a crafter well for repairing your gear. Then over 3 entire pages it dissolved into a single argument between the community that actually plays FFXIV and an ingnorant narcissist whose only point of reference is to point out scenarios from FFXI.

Now, not that it hasn't been semi entertaining in an exceedingly morose sort of way, but isn't it about time to stop posting the same thing over and over again to give the Army of One something to complain about in CAPS? At this point it's like trying to watch parents reason with a 3 year old, and then wonder why little Bethany can't understand trigonometry.

Things we all know:
-Irish has never played FFXIV (Or at least hasn't been able to list any convincing point that suggests this)
-The OP and subsequent crafters have a legitimate beef (whether any of us agree or not, it's their PoV)
-No one is ever going to be able to crack the code of Irish's logic (Though you all get high marks for trying)

Hopefully, we've reached the part where we all (Yes! I am a crafter, play FFXIV, and see both sides to this point) realize that Irish is not the intended target of the OP (Cause let's face it, the OP was targeting people that actually play) and that you are all responding to only one person...

Stop letting Irish win.

Taruly yours,
Mejiro
#140 Nov 22 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Hey! No boy-cotting me. My prices are always the lowest on Selbina! Besides I charge next to nothing for people that requests crafts. Usually just ask for shards I used and a tip
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#141 Nov 22 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
Mejiro wrote:
This thread started out so nice. A very well put argument for why it is worth tipping a crafter well for repairing your gear. Then over 3 entire pages it dissolved into a single argument between the community that actually plays FFXIV and an ingnorant narcissist whose only point of reference is to point out scenarios from FFXI.

Now, not that it hasn't been semi entertaining in an exceedingly morose sort of way, but isn't it about time to stop posting the same thing over and over again to give the Army of One something to complain about in CAPS? At this point it's like trying to watch parents reason with a 3 year old, and then wonder why little Bethany can't understand trigonometry.

Things we all know:
-Irish has never played FFXIV (Or at least hasn't been able to list any convincing point that suggests this)
-The OP and subsequent crafters have a legitimate beef (whether any of us agree or not, it's their PoV)
-No one is ever going to be able to crack the code of Irish's logic (Though you all get high marks for trying)

Hopefully, we've reached the part where we all (Yes! I am a crafter, play FFXIV, and see both sides to this point) realize that Irish is not the intended target of the OP (Cause let's face it, the OP was targeting people that actually play) and that you are all responding to only one person...

Stop letting Irish win.

Taruly yours,
Mejiro


Thank you

Quote:
Hey! No boy-cotting me. My prices are always the lowest on Selbina! Besides I charge next to nothing for people that requests crafts. Usually just ask for shards I used and a tip


Ayase, you're still my favorite angry craft monkey.
#142 Nov 22 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Well said OP. Well said.

I have never been one to gouge. Some people might even accuse me of undercutting. I always sold my willow wands for 7K. Even when they were being sold for 20K+ - I sold them for 7K - because that seemed like a fair price for the materials involved and gave me a little profit for getting there.

I don't know if I would be able to sell it for that anymore because I don't even really try to sell crafted goods anymore. I am pretty much expected to sell at a loss. Heck, even when I am selling at a loss I can't get half of my stuff to sell.

So repairs make a difference, gil-wise. I won't repair a willow wand for 2K - because I fail on the repair often - and growth formula is actually a pain in the **** to make, costs almost 2K to get from an npc and my supply is low. So no, I don't feel like losing money on repairing your willow wand.

Heck even if I was a higher ranked carpenter I wouldn't bother repairing it for 2K (even though I'll sell you one for 7K!) - because I know the repair npc charges you more than 10K to get that wand repaired to 75%. So why are you offering me barely the cost of the material to fix your wand? Especially when as a DoM - I know you can make 2K in 5 minutes? Especially when I sold you that wand for a fair price to begin with?

I don't do it. I won't do it unless you're a friend - or we are in an SP party together.
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#143 Nov 22 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Kazuyakun wrote:
Hey! No boy-cotting me. My prices are always the lowest on Selbina! Besides I charge next to nothing for people that requests crafts. Usually just ask for shards I used and a tip



New tip: The more japanese someone's name sounds, the more likely they are to speak english.

The converse is also true.
#144 Nov 22 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
My prices are always the lowest on Selbina!


You sound like a cheesy used car salesmen.

Quote:
New tip: The more japanese someone's name sounds, the more likely they are to speak english.


Hilarious and true from what I can tell. Last night's party, some guy named "Apple Jacks" or something like that didn't speak a lick of English, but Biouttasami Niyshyama spoke perfect English.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 1:58pm by thejones
#145 Nov 22 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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The level of ... lack of understanding ... from the non-crafters on this thread is rather astounding.

So, here is a real world example (or a reasonable facsimile):

You're out playing with your knife... I don't know, harassing squirrels or something... and you cut yourself.
You head to the nearest hospital...

You: "Help, my skin is damaged and needs repair. I have a band-aid."

Now, if you see a nurse, the nurse can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged for it.
If you see a doctor, the doctor can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged MORE for it.
If you see a specialist, the specialist can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged the MOST for it.

The necessary materials (band-aid) have not changed, the amount of work required (application of said band-aid) has not changed, the amount of the bill changed SOLELY based on the amount of effort required to obtain their degree of skill. Whether you realized that or not, yes, you pay for that.

In any case, if you attempt to explain that you should not have to pay the bill because you supplied your own band-aid, well, they may not laugh in your face, but they will laugh behind your back.

Or, you know, you could figure out how to apply the band-aid yourself...
Or, you know, you could just stand around bleeding while calling the nurse, doctor, and specialist "greedy".

Sincerely,
Ailys Foxglove
-Kashuan
#146 Nov 22 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
2 posts
But I had to spend gas money to drive to the store then spend money to buy the box of band aids which you will use to fix my skin. Why do I have to spend more money to have you do just put the band aid on me???

\(*^o^*)/
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#147 Nov 22 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irish wrote:
sorry no thanks. I can craft myself easy. I enjoy it.

Irish wrote:
might be cheaper just buying a new 1 and droping the old.


I'm so looking forward to seeing this come to fruition, when Irish gets the PS3 release. She can bomb through all them crafting levels required to fix her lance/hora/mail/plate/sheepskin crakows so she can chortle over ******** those dirty crafters out of their exorbitant repair fees, meanwhile thumbing her nose at the repair NPC and HIS monstrous 60% services-rendered charges.

Let's totally revisit this in March, hmm? Just my luck of course, they'll do something different with repair functions by then and it won't whack her in the face with a wet, expensive fish.

Sorry, Irish. You're out to lunch on this one but I appreciate your support of a game economy you haven't actually had to deal with yet.
#148 Nov 22 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Eventually those who dont craft just get fed up with the game and end up leaving anyway or taking up a craft.

Once everyone is leveling a DoW/M and a DoH then there won't be discussions like this, because everyone will understand what is involved.
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#149 Nov 22 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't have to repair much being an Alchemist, however I can tell you, not only will I not repair anything unless mats are provided, I will also not repair anything unless it's coupled with a good reward. I have better things to do then repair stuff. If you don't like what the crafters ask for, use the NPC. Trust me, you'll stop that once your gear costs a million gil to repair everyday.

Just an example: If the NPC is going to charge you 50K to repair an item to 75% that means that from 0% dura it costs (strangely enough) 666~ gil per 1% of durability. Lets say the repair material costs you 10K. Even if you pay a crafter 25K to repair you equipment from 0% durability you are only paying 350 gil per 1% of durability (because its getting increased to 100% instead)

I dont understand why anyone would complain about paying 50% less for 25% more.
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#150 Nov 22 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I don't have to repair much being an Alchemist, however I can tell you, not only will I not repair anything unless mats are provided, I will also not repair anything unless it's coupled with a good reward. I have better things to do then repair stuff. If you don't like what the crafters ask for, use the NPC. Trust me, you'll stop that once your gear costs a million gil to repair everyday.

Just an example: If the NPC is going to charge you 50K to repair an item to 75% that means that from 0% dura it costs (strangely enough) 666~ gil per 1% of durability. Lets say the repair material costs you 10K. Even if you pay a crafter 25K to repair you equipment from 0% durability you are only paying 350 gil per 1% of durability (because its getting increased to 100% instead)

I dont understand why anyone would complain about paying 50% less for 25% more.


Because repairing it cost me 1 cheap iron square/nugget. People need to realize that everyone else is going to be ranking up a craft at some point and are going to waste money ranking it up, or time gathering mats. Time is money. Although I only really repair stuff that offer 2.5k per iron nugget or iron square mainly to cover expenses and the random fail.

You can be 30 ranks above optimum level but you can still fail repairing. SE has definitely gotten their game straight.
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#151 Nov 22 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Let me begin by applauding you on a well written and thought out Thread. I am primarily a DOW but I enjoy DOH as well. As a Gladiator, I work om making AND repairing most of the items I wear and use. I am VERY FORTUNATE to be in a LS where a Crafter is much appreciated and supplied with MATS on a continuing basis. They Rank Up and so do we DOW's. Few if any of our Crafters now charge LS Members so it is not really an issue with us. Might I suggest that those that complain look for a LS and join it. Better yet, make your own and encourage all Classes to join. :)
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