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Crafters, and YOUFollow

#152 Nov 22 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
tylerbee wrote:
Right now people are not paying enough for repairs and that is the bottom line.

They should be paying about 50% of what the NPC does it for, at the very least.

You're getting an extra 25% durability and a way cheaper price with the only downside being convenience.Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 6:18am by tylerbee


This has probably already been discussed but I will never, NEVER pay 50% of the price for anything to be repaired. I've offered pretty decent prices (3-4K for repairs to leather shoes for example, 5-6K for jewelry containing silver.) and have never ran into any problems really. If I think an item might be hard or I'm just feeling cheap I just offer shards/crystals instead. I had an overflow of fire shards so I offered about 40 shard for one repair, within seconds of standing at the repair NPC it was fixed immediately and I had someone thanking me. There's a balance here, like the OP wrote, be nice to the crafters and they'll be nice to you. Offer up decent rewards, be polite, thank them and show gratitude.

What some people forget is a number of equipment pieces also drop from guildleves meaning it can be replaced rather easily. I've got no problem offering a reward for a crafter's time even if I do have the materials, and will even throw in a little something as a thank you sometimes if they have to take time out of their day on the road or something. Common rule of thumb is if you don't want to pay for the repairs, level up a craft yourself and wear only what you can repair yourself. Be self-sufficient and then you don't have to complain about someone wanting to charge for taking up their time they could be using elsewhere working on their craft. And same goes for crafters, if you charge or expect huge or insane amounts of gil/items just to do something that doesn't do anything but take a small piece of your time, and doesn't even cost you a shard to do, expect people to take their business elsewhere. You're not the only crafter out there.

By the way, as I write this I've never had problems with any crafters save for one who made an item and promptly blew me off lying and saying they didn't have it, even if I JUST saw them making a series of them. In my experience most crafters are pretty friendly and happy to assist if you make it worth their while at a reasonable pay.
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#153 Nov 22 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
good post just disagree with the "fee" portion for repairs.
first off if you provide the mats, no payment should be needed. Why should someone pay a fee just because you leved it? Its like paying white mages to cure in a party. If you don't buy the mats then i would see payment needed.and should be equal to the worth of mats used.

Sorry if this may seem to offend the crafters, I just find it rediculous to have to pay someone a ton of gil for something that don;t time that much time.

example: i ffxi whm used to teleport ppl for 500g. Now its up to 6K-10K just to say get a teleport-holla.

personally ppl shouldn't be greedy or expext payment when the customer is giving the mats. Most likely the customer had to buy those mats.

Another example is the O-hat pop item. Getting all those eyes was annoying an expensive when it was a must have. I found an alchemist to make it and was willing to offer a 10K tip for taking time. Guy wanted 500K though i gave him everything needed. And if I didn't pay he keep it.

Stop at the grocery store, pick up some food, and take it to your local TGI Fridays and see if they'll cook your meal for free.
Yeah, that's how stupid an idea (crafters should do it for free) it is.
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#154 Nov 22 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I nominate this as the best thread of all-time.

That being said, definitely tip your crafters in shards or gil and be sure to be gracious and pay for repairs. Also, I'm not sure how it is in other LSs but in mine if a crafter needs some shards/crystals from me they can have them free of charge. We're friendly like that and they've done/would do plenty for me.

Brandon
#155 Nov 22 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Kazuyakun wrote:
Hey! No boy-cotting me. My prices are always the lowest on Selbina! Besides I charge next to nothing for people that requests crafts. Usually just ask for shards I used and a tip


I'll have to remember your name, I always need random bsm stuff crafted and usually have the mats + tip :x
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#156 Nov 22 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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AilysFoxglove wrote:
The level of ... lack of understanding ... from the non-crafters on this thread is rather astounding.

So, here is a real world example (or a reasonable facsimile):

You're out playing with your knife... I don't know, harassing squirrels or something... and you cut yourself.
You head to the nearest hospital...

You: "Help, my skin is damaged and needs repair. I have a band-aid."

Now, if you see a nurse, the nurse can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged for it.
If you see a doctor, the doctor can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged MORE for it.
If you see a specialist, the specialist can help apply the band-aid... and you will be charged the MOST for it.

The necessary materials (band-aid) have not changed, the amount of work required (application of said band-aid) has not changed, the amount of the bill changed SOLELY based on the amount of effort required to obtain their degree of skill. Whether you realized that or not, yes, you pay for that.

In any case, if you attempt to explain that you should not have to pay the bill because you supplied your own band-aid, well, they may not laugh in your face, but they will laugh behind your back.

Or, you know, you could figure out how to apply the band-aid yourself...
Or, you know, you could just stand around bleeding while calling the nurse, doctor, and specialist "greedy".

Sincerely,
Ailys Foxglove
-Kashuan


Or you can move to Canada and have universal healthcare.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

That said, don't waste my universal healthcare with your band-aid!
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#157 Nov 22 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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People are greedy. Live with it.
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#158 Nov 22 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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This is an interesting discussion.

For those that are solely crafting, shards are very, very common drops. Leveling just one DoW/DoM Class to Rank 10 will net you hundreds of shards.

Level 2 or 3 DoW/DoM classes to Rank 10, and you will be sitting on stacks of shards 200+ in no time.

There is a booming economy of buying and selling shards that makes little sense to me. FFXIV rewards diversity. A very small time investment will make shards a non-concern for you.

I am advocating for all crafters to at least take a minimal stab at a DoM or DoW Class.
#159 Nov 22 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:

Level 2 or 3 DoW/DoM classes to Rank 10, and you will be sitting on stacks of shards 200+ in no time.

There is a booming economy of buying and selling shards that makes little sense to me. FFXIV rewards diversity. A very small time investment will make shards a non-concern for you.

Crafters burn through shards in no time though. 200 shards is nothing... I'm leveling weaver and can never have enough earth and wind shards. Don't use a lot of fire shards, so try to sell those and buy more of the shards I need.
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#160 Nov 22 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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I have to wonder how many of the people here basing their repair costs on what the NPC charges, also got upset when people were selling mats near vendor price rather than the market rate.

I'm also curious if some crafters here aren't hoping to make back money on repairs, that they lost when the value of crafted items dropped due to oversupply vs shortage of DOM/DOWs.
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#161 Nov 22 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
This is an interesting discussion.

For those that are solely crafting, shards are very, very common drops. Leveling just one DoW/DoM Class to Rank 10 will net you hundreds of shards.

Level 2 or 3 DoW/DoM classes to Rank 10, and you will be sitting on stacks of shards 200+ in no time.

There is a booming economy of buying and selling shards that makes little sense to me. FFXIV rewards diversity. A very small time investment will make shards a non-concern for you.

I am advocating for all crafters to at least take a minimal stab at a DoM or DoW Class.


Medium level (20+) crafters that aren't culinarians can burn through shards at the rate of 16+ a minute. So you'd need 960+ shards for one hour of non-leve crafting once you reach that point. Believe me, DoW and DoM don't farm enough shards solo to cover the regular needs of a DoH that is trying to rank up at a decent pace.

On top of that, there's also the crystal needs. Those are nasty too.
#162 Nov 22 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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It's almost painful to read all of this, but here's a thought.

If you could bring your own seasoning, steak, condiments, vegetables, plates, silverware, wine, etc. etc. to a restaurant, do you get to have a 5* chef make you a meal for free? Just because you provided the materials that you had to work overtime at your job to be able to afford?

Edit: did NOT realize this was a 4 page thread >< late to the party it seems =\

Edited, Nov 22nd 2010 3:15pm by Aiea
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#163 Nov 22 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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@ xenith
by your logic then.
i can charge crafter the mats they need to repair my items since again supply and demand
like i said crafters should NEVERA CHARGE A FEE IF THAT FEE IS BEING PAID FOR IN ADVANCE. AKA PRICE FOR THE MATS. why should i soend a ton of money on not only mays but someone asinine concet of labor?
sorry no thanks. I can craft myself easy. I enjoy it.
you guys really need to rethink that repair fee and supply and demand.
i don;t demand you to repair. I ask, and will compensate your time with items so all you need to do is repair.
what you gain is not having to spend money, not having to run around, not having to look for mats to repair.
that should be good enough. I can see you having to pay for the mays and asking for payment.
but it asinine if i gotta pay twice to fix a weapon/gear that might be cheaper just buying a new 1 and droping the old.


Well, looks like we're all happy then. You craft all crafts and repair for free,
other crafters repair and charge, you call them asinine and they blacklist you.

Simple mechanics of demand and supply. Your opinions are the supplies nobody demands.

Please, people, let this thread die ;.;/ It's been crying out in pain for two days now.
#164 Nov 22 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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Aiea wrote:
Edit: did NOT realize this was a 4 page thread >< late to the party it seems =\


late, but we still love you!

platonically, of course. :)
#165 Nov 22 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry, but it seems that some people here fail to understand how the
repair economy works. The repair=item to be repaired+materials used
for the repair+the crafter's effort. So, say you supply the materials,
you still owe the crafter for the repair process. The crafters are adding
value, and it is that value that they want to be compensated for. Some
think that they are doing crafters a favor by suppling the materials,
but that isn't true; it is your repair, so the cost of materials is your
cost--in addition to the repair fee. I have no idea how some figure that
crafters should provide the materials to repair their items and that they are
saving crafters that expense by providing said materials. How does that work?
#166 Nov 22 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I see. The recipes start calling for 16 shards?

I think many people have a few thousand of each shard stockpiled. But at that rate you would still run out. Makes more sense now.
#167 Nov 22 2010 at 10:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
I see. The recipes start calling for 16 shards?

I think many people have a few thousand of each shard stockpiled. But at that rate you would still run out. Makes more sense now.


Iron Rings require 24 shards/synth (referring to the material used to make and repair iron chain armor, not some crazy sort of jewelry). Armorer seems to be a bit on the high side in terms of shard requireemnts relative to other classes (like alchemy), but the requirements do add up.
#168Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 10:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) first off i'm sorry for any offence i made, but i do not think the personal attacks i got well before i got mad was nessisary. It was an opinion. And what you crafters are doing is wrong. :) I tried my best to nicely put it. But no liked it and only wanted to attack me.
#169 Nov 22 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
By the way, I'm one of the "Battlers" in Leeloo, Ayase, and Akua's LS that has a load of cash. Well, I HAD a load of cash. I was making 1-2 million gil a week just killing marmots (very very slowly) while recording every single attack damage amount, miss, evade, SP gain, crit, and exp gain BY HAND (that's really slow) and selling shards/crystals, many of those at a discounted rate to my trusty LS mates (especially Ayase...cheap *******). Now that I've been leveling DoH/DoL more, I went from having 4.5 million gil on hand to 1.2 million...in 2 weeks. That's 235,714 gil per day, which won't even buy me 80 crystals a day @3k per.

Point is, if Leeloo, Ayase, or Akua ever have any gil (read: more than 500k)...it's because they are leveling a DoW/DoM to get some of those crystals/shards, and then they spend all they have buying more mats. Everyone who just plays DoW/DoM classes needs to understand this very clearly. They are essentially forced to level YOUR CLASSES in order to level theirs, or else it would literally take 2 years of grinding levequests to get ONE CLASS to 50, and then you wouldn't have that shiny sword to get yourself to r50 Gladiator or whatever. Most of you who are DoW/DoM only would quit instantly if you found out for every hour of leveling Pugilist you were required to level Goldsmith for 2 hours a day, then spend 1 more hour looking for a new camp to fight in each day on top of that (which is the equivalent of looking for mats in the Market Wards).

DoW/DoM have the option of just killing, NPCing the drops, and accumulating wealth over time without ever talking to another player, ever doing 1 transaction (buying or selling), and buying all their weapons/gear from NPCs if they so choose. Players who are only crafters are, and have always been, at the mercy of the battle classes to supply them with gil for materials (or the materials themselves) through purchase of goods and now repairs.

TLDR - Stop ********* your **** is much easier, and you will always have more gil than crafters.
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#170 Nov 22 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
again why should I pay for repairs, when i did most of the work to get it repaired, all you are doing is providing the skill I lack. How bout this DO NOT BE GREEDY.


Because quite frankly all you did is buy the mats. In the sum total of what is required in order to get something repaired (have mats and someone with the skill to do it) acquiring the skill to do it is far more than buying the mats.
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#171Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) First off, you crafters take this game and your crafting to literally.
#172 Nov 22 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
First off, you crafters take this game and your crafting to literally.
like op said "crafter is a full time job" That right there is a good example of taking things to literally.

Life of a crafter on any game is simple. You buy/ farm mats and use them to make gear, food, weapons for players. So you pretty much spend money or make money. ffxiv having crafters be classes don;t change that. You just get the added bonus of not only leveling a craft to make money, you can use it to make your character stronger.

I have no issue paying the crafter if they are using their own mats. Only because they would need to buy them back. Not once in any game did players HAVE TO pay a crafter for crafting. Sure tips are nice, but shouldn't be required. In fact you only pay the crafter the cot for supplies. Mostly because this is not the real world.

No crafter in any game does any form of physical labor. To me what you guys are saying is I must pay for your supplys then an addon fee. Either way. (cont)


im just gonna flat out tell you the truth

if you refuse to pay for repairs, NO ONE, and i mean NO ONE, will ever repair your gear

you better hope to high **** you get a good LS and they do everything for you

you are gonna have 1 HUGE crash course in reality when you eventualy play this game
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#173 Nov 22 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
what you crafters are doing is wrong... [snip] next post since i am on the ps3 will calmly tell you why you crafters are being unfair in your fees. I don't have to play this game to understand that as i seen it in other games.


If you don't play the game, why come back to argue more? And why complain if you are not even playing?

People have given simple, logically sound reasons for why you would pay for this service even if you provide the mats. If you can't accept them now, it looks like you will have to play the game to understand, regardless of what you say you may have seen in other games.
#174 Nov 22 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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@Irish

you do realize that crafting in FFXIV is more then just a few button presses right?
we do actualy have to do more then just put in mats and press a "synth" button and see how it turns out
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#175 Nov 22 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
First off, you crafters take this game and your crafting to literally.
like op said "crafter is a full time job" That right there is a good example of taking things to literally.

Life of a crafter on any game is simple. You buy/ farm mats and use them to make gear, food, weapons for players. So you pretty much spend money or make money. ffxiv having crafters be classes don;t change that. You just get the added bonus of not only leveling a craft to make money, you can use it to make your character stronger.

I have no issue paying the crafter if they are using their own mats. Only because they would need to buy them back. Not once in any game did players HAVE TO pay a crafter for crafting. Sure tips are nice, but shouldn't be required. In fact you only pay the crafter the cot for supplies. Mostly because this is not the real world.

No crafter in any game does any form of physical labor. To me what you guys are saying is I must pay for your supplys then an addon fee. Either way. (cont)


By your logic, people who run out and kill things should give the drops away for free. They're not doing any physical labor. Why should they be charging for them?
#176 Nov 22 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Irish, you have things backwards; the cost of materials for the repair
are your responsibility, not the crafter's. The fee charged is for the
convenience of not having to repair it yourself.
#177 Nov 22 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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1 Six-pack of cervezas: $8.00
1 laptop computer: $1,100.00
1 very comfortable chair: $80.00
1 slice of Pizza Hut pizza: $3.00
Reading every page of this thread: PRICELESS!

I second that nomination for greatest thread of all-time!
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#178Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As a customer, having to buy the mats then an added for for crafting. that is spending more money then I care to. You crafters in fact lose no money if a customer buys the mats for you. Thats what no one but a few people are getting. A crafter spends more money currently in ffxiv due to mats being over priced. Well in a way mats are over priced because non crafters need money to pay the crafters to level their crafts. I'm sorry but crafting IS NOT a job. No one should have to pay you to craft so you can make money selling items you craft. That is what the repair fee is. Thays where crafter logic is faulted. You guys feel you SHOULDA GET paid to craft. In reality class or not. crafting items to sell to players is how you make money. If you are spending more to make less, that is no one but said crafters fault. They choose to buy vs hunt for mats.
#180Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sorry but think you as the rest of the crafters got it backwards
#181 Nov 22 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
As a customer, having to buy the mats then an added for for crafting. that is spending more money then I care to. You crafters in fact lose no money if a customer buys the mats for you. Thats what no one but a few people are getting. A crafter spends more money currently in ffxiv due to mats being over priced. Well in a way mats are over priced because non crafters need money to pay the crafters to level their crafts. I'm sorry but crafting IS NOT a job. No one should have to pay you to craft so you can make money selling items you craft. That is what the repair fee is. Thays where crafter logic is faulted. You guys feel you SHOULDA GET paid to craft. In reality class or not. crafting items to sell to players is how you make money. If you are spending more to make less, that is no one but said crafters fault. They choose to buy vs hunt for mats.

Here is an Idea, something I seen on WoW alot AND ffxi alot. Is crafter leveling by crafting for clients. Shout what rank you are and have players supply you.


The first thing you need to understand is that crafting in this game takes as long to level as a battle class. Each level of crafting takes hours in the 20s, just like a battle class. It is a full time job and class, just like being an archer or a gladiator. It is also a job where you have to continually purchase items from battle classes to continue, without money from repairs and items sold (which have a very small margin) this is impossible.

The problem you have understanding here is the mats for repair are very very very very very cheap in this game Irish. Actually a weapon will cost 100,000g and the mats to repair it are 1000g or under. Sometimes you can spend 1000g and get enough to repair your weapon or armor 3-4 times. Thats why getting the mats to repair in this game isn't worth the price of the repair, because just killing one mob out in the wild and it drops 6 shards will make you 3000g. Even 5000g for a repair is very very low and people should be paying alot more.

In other games it works differently because materials are costly. Repair materials in FFXIV are extremely cheap... you pay for the service instead of the materials.

It comes to down two ways to get your item repaired:

Pay 30,000k to an NPC and have your item repaired to 75% (When item reaches 50% it loses statistics and how effective it is, this occurs again at 25% giving you an even higher penalty).

or

Pay 5,000 to a player and have your item repaired to 100% and in 95% of cases the crafter will supply the materials for free because they are so cheap.



Once you start playing and understand the system better, you will begin to understand why your opinion in this situation is very very wrong.


EDIT: I forgot to mention, but repairs do not give as much experience points for crafting as crafting a weapon would. It gives approximately 20% of what you'd get from crafting a weapon, so it isn't a viable way to level at all. 50 points instead of 250 points when it already takes six hours to get a level would mean it'd take 30 hours to get that same level repairing gear instead of crafting items. This doesn't even take into account the fact you'd need to find people who need things repaired.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 12:35am by tylerbee
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#182 Nov 22 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
As a customer, having to buy the mats then an added for for crafting. that is spending more money then I care to. You crafters in fact lose no money if a customer buys the mats for you. Thats what no one but a few people are getting. A crafter spends more money currently in ffxiv due to mats being over priced. Well in a way mats are over priced because non crafters need money to pay the crafters to level their crafts. I'm sorry but crafting IS NOT a job. No one should have to pay you to craft so you can make money selling items you craft. That is what the repair fee is. Thays where crafter logic is faulted. You guys feel you SHOULDA GET paid to craft. In reality class or not. crafting items to sell to players is how you make money. If you are spending more to make less, that is no one but said crafters fault. They choose to buy vs hunt for mats.

Here is an Idea, something I seen on WoW alot AND ffxi alot. Is crafter leveling by crafting for clients. Shout what rank you are and have players supply you.


so im curious
when people refuse to repair for you because this is your way of thinking
exactly how are you gonna get your gear repaired
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#183Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 22 2010 at 11:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok anyone who says something about my lavk of great typing skills is getting reported. I have a learning disability and have no tools to assist me. Get over yourselves.
#184 Nov 22 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
ok anyone who says something about my lavk of great typing skills is getting reported. I have a learning disability and have no tools to assist me. Get over yourselves.
I'm not even done writing what I want to say. I'm i'm not stupid for calling out on your bs.
simply put. Making players pay you to craft is asinine. That is like going to a bank and making a lone to start a buiness. ffxiv is not real life. You are not doing anything that requires you to spend any money. My asking you to repair is doing nothing to do. You don't waste anything but 5 min of your time. If you feel you need to get paid for that.. something is wrong here.

Simply put. every crafter here lack proper logic in this. You guys are not empoyees of other players. We are your customers. If you are not using your supplies why make someone pay? what are they paying for? your time? that is silly. I'm a wise customer, i will not pay for more then something worth. If i take time out of my day to buy all items for repairs.


stop dodging my question

if no one repairs your items, cuz you refuse to pay

what are you gonna do about it


also, who has the popcorn? this is entertaining
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#186 Nov 22 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
I have a learning disability and have no tools to assist me. Get over yourselves.


Well that certainly explains why you haven't learnt you are wrong yet despite over ten people telling you otherwise and providing information and argument to prove their point.

Best of luck getting your free repairs, you have alot to learn about this game and life in general.
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#187 Nov 22 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
we arent asking for NPC prices, we are asking a fraction of that cost, and yet people still feel that we shouldnt be doing even that
Some of the posts here state otherwise. In fact, the original post makes crafters out to be the messiah in disguise when in truth they're as reliant on battle classes as the combat classes are on them. I direct you to the following part of the OP I disagreed with most.

Quote:
Even if you have the repair material, giving someone 1k for a repair is an insult.

Don't think of it like, "Hey, it's just 1 minute of work. He doesn't deserve any money". It's actually the exact opposite.

He didn't put in "One minute of work". He put in HOURS and HOURS of leveling crafts. Hours and hours of working at synthesises. Again, crafting is a full time job.
That's like saying because a battle class has put in hours upon hours of levelling their combat skills they should be charging over the odds for Buffalo Skins and the like. They didn't put in all those hours of work solely to repair your item, they did it for themselves as well.

All im saying is a bit of perspective never hurts when dealing with potential clients, and people are more likely to respect a player who doesn't overcharge for simple tasks. Players who respect you are more likely to buy the gear you craft too.
Quote:
this game is not real life you crafters get money from your crafts by selling the stuff you make. If this is not enough money for you, don;t take it out on the players. If i causing you to use your supplies you bought/ farmed for I'll pay you for that
True, but someone is spending their real-life time to assist you, so why not throw them a couple of gil? You're paying for their time as much as anything else. I tend to do free repairs when people supply their items, but I have no qualms with people who do. Think of it as a service charge for the work when they could be doing something else.

Just don't agree to overpriced repair jobs.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 12:50am by Glitterhands
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#188 Nov 22 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Irish...read this part of my post, and tell me you realize why they charge.

Quote:
Point is, if Leeloo, Ayase, or Akua (some of my LS crafters) ever have any gil (read: more than 500k)...it's because they are leveling a DoW/DoM to get some of those crystals/shards, and then they spend all they have buying more mats. Everyone who just plays DoW/DoM classes needs to understand this very clearly. They (crafters) are essentially forced to level YOUR (fighters) CLASSES in order to level their's, or else it would literally take 2 years of grinding levequests to get ONE CLASS to 50, and then you wouldn't have that shiny sword to get yourself to r50 Gladiator or whatever. Most of you who are DoW/DoM only would quit instantly if you found out for every hour of leveling Pugilist you were required to level Goldsmith for 2 hours a day, then spend 1 more hour looking for a new camp to fight in each day on top of that (which is the equivalent of looking for mats in the Market Wards).


The fee you pay is the by-product profit of them "leveling up" on your repair. Your by-product profit from leveling up is the shards/crystals you price gouge them for. You will always win as a Dow/DoM in the battle for gil.
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#189Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 12:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok to the crafters here is my question, what are you losing that is causing the repair fee?
#190 Nov 23 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Glitterhands wrote:

That's like saying because a battle class has put in hours upon hours of levelling their combat skills they should be charging over the odds for Buffalo Skins and the like. They didn't put in all those hours of work solely to repair your item, they did it for themselves as well.
Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 12:50am by Glitterhands


Apparently you've never bought or sold buffalo hide.

Sheepskin = 2k, Dodo = 2kish also, Buffalo = 10K, Gigantoad = 10K+

See how that works. You fight harder mobs that are less farmable, and you sell drops for more.

Well if I'm repairing your T4 crap that I had to level up to by buying your 10K hides then yes I am going to charge you more.

Everything gets more expensive as you go up in tiers, that includes repairs, farmable drops for adventurers, and equipment.

My general rule is I'll repair T3-T4 gear for 5k minimum, and T5 gear for 8K+. If I see someone afk bazaaring repairs for 2-3K for lvl 30 items I ignore it. Maybe you'll get lucky, but alot of the crafters I know will do the same thing.
I'm sorry but that's not much to ask with the price of shards at mats. If you think otherwise come back to me after you level a craft to 40+.

Personally I put up my level 40+ stuff for 10K and it gets repaired very quickly. If anyone is complaining about not getting their stuff repaired they may want to look at how much their offering. You can whine about it all you want, like I said time = money. You can spend 30 minutes shouting in town offering 3k for a repair and having everyone ignore you. Or you can offer 5K+ for a crafters time and be out of their in 2 minutes and spend the rest of the 28 minutes farming 10x as much or leveling or doing whatever. If I see someone in Ul'Dah shouting for repairs and offering a fair reward, i will run over to them. I know many other crafters who do this as well. If I see someone shouting and check their bazaar offering 3k for a level 30 item I'll ignore them and go back to crafting.

Personally what works for me and many others, and is probably something you should learn if you want fast repairs, say something like this:
"(Blacksmith)(Repair)20+ (Can You Do It For Me?) (Reward:) 6K (Thank You)" and stand by the repair NPC in Ul'Dah or in respective guilds and you will get repaired very fast.

It's really up to adventurers. There are plenty of fair players out there because I do a ton of repairs everyday. Me ignoring the dumb people really doesn't affect me, I couldn't care less if I get your repair or not. Eventually you'll learn or waste your time standing around waiting for repairs. And if you want to do that fine with me.
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Strife Nii ~ Conjuror 49, Botanist 37, Mining 33, Thaum 32, Culinary 27, Goldsmith 22
#191 Nov 23 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
ok to the crafters here is my question, what are you losing that is causing the repair fee?


@ tylerbee
ok so i pay say 5K in mats to get repairs. so in fact I'm paying 10K to get my weapon repaired. I'm losing 10K and you are gaining 5K just for your time. see the issue?
you don't put any money into repairing my items yet are infact making money. I'm having to pay 2 times the amount to fix an Item I bought from you for 100K. so you guys just netted 105K from me for the same item while i lose an additional 5K to pay the person to farmed said mats. So in truth i'm paying 2 ppl to get an item repaired. I rather take the npc fee then.

lets do a role reversal, say i play the game just as a gatherer. I sell items to you. As that is my job. As gathering is a full time job. I ask for a fee for the convience of getting the items I took my time to farm up.


but i can't do that correct as there is no reason for it right? why should someone pay me to level up as a gatherer?



10k is CHEAP

let me explain this

You pay me 10k for me to repair your gear to 100% per piece

OR you can pay the npc to repair your gear for 30, and he only repairs it to 75%

now hes ripping who off?



also, you still havent answered my main question
what are you going to do when everyone refuses to repair you for free
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#192Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 12:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) thats why it is called a tip. not a fee. I should be the one who decides to pay a tip or not. And that would only be 10% -15%. I'm a very generous tipper. Like when i need to take a cab from work i give the cab driver $13.
#193 Nov 23 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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IMHO people who thinks crafters should repair for free simply because you provide the mats are having very strange logic. Service and skills are not free.

Say:
You go to a dentist and ask him to fix your teeth. Do you think he will do it for you for free if you brought the filling materials with you? That is just silly.
You pay him for his skills and time. Maybe he can finish the filling in 15 mins, but that's because he spent 5 years learning how to do a filling and another 10 years doing fillings everyday.

Make sense huh?
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#194 Nov 23 2010 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
lets do a role reversal, say i play the game just as a gatherer. I sell items to you. As that is my job. As gathering is a full time job. I ask for a fee for the convience of getting the items I took my time to farm up.


but i can't do that correct as there is no reason for it right? why should someone pay me to level up as a gatherer?


What, you meant you don't sell the mats at all and instead just hand it out fir free? Nice! Gimme gimme! The mats price already included labour fee, unless you do indeed give it out for free.
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#195 Nov 23 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
ok anyone who says something about my lavk of great typing skills is getting reported. I have a learning disability and have no tools to assist me. Get over yourselves.
I'm not even done writing what I want to say. I'm i'm not stupid for calling out on your bs.
simply put. Making players pay you to craft is asinine. That is like going to a bank and making a lone to start a buiness. ffxiv is not real life. You are not doing anything that requires you to spend any money. My asking you to repair is doing nothing to do. You don't waste anything but 5 min of your time. If you feel you need to get paid for that.. something is wrong here.

Simply put. every crafter here lack proper logic in this. You guys are not empoyees of other players. We are your customers. If you are not using your supplies why make someone pay? what are they paying for? your time? that is silly. I'm a wise customer, i will not pay for more then something worth. If i take time out of my day to buy all items for repairs.


I'm going to let you in on a secret that applies to both in-game situations as well as real life:

All you ever pay for is time. You don't pay for the food you eat. You pay for the time of the farmers and ranchers who grew that food. You pay for the time of the people who cleaned and packaged that food. You pay for the time of the people who transported that food to the grocery store where you pay for the time of the people who unloaded the trucks and put the food on the shelves. The only RL exception to this is undeveloped real estate where you pay for the exclusive rights to use something that already existed.

If you don't value the time of the people around you, you're going to have a very hard time of things. That's just the way it works. You can complain all day long about how you think things "should" be, but what you think doesn't matter.
#196Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 12:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ strife
#197 Nov 23 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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Irish,

Look at it this way: if the crafter adds nothing of value,
he hands you back your mats and broken item and walks away.
Or, you pay for the service and receive a repaired item.
You can,t have both no matter how cheap you want to be.
#198 Nov 23 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You can complain all day long about how you think things "should" be

...well, that's what he's been doing for three days now. Don't entice him, he'll take it literally.

Quote:
You don't waste anything but 5 min of your time.

...which definitely pales in comparison to how many people's time you already have wasted.

P.S.: Don't play the "I have a learning disability, have mercy" card. Personally, I don't care about
your lack of grammar and spelling skills. What I sincerely miss in you, though, is the ability to
understand that when the whole world is of a different opinion than you are, it matters little who
is objectively "right" or "wrong".

If you want to play with us, play according to our rules. Of course, you are free to play alone.
I'll even buy you an old Jester's cap. But don't come running and crying for repairs once its
durability is spent. Which, at your pace of leveling ignorance should happen every odd minute.


Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 1:52am by Rinsui
#199 Nov 23 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
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Some of you guys should stop posting and go read Economic 101.

Market price is determined by Demand and Supply, not the variable cost.
#200 Nov 23 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Siulang wrote:
Some of you guys should stop posting and go read Economic 101.

Market price is determined by Demand and Supply, not the variable cost.



but supply and demand never calls for "free" which is the point
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#201Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 12:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ aur
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