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Crafters, and YOUFollow

#202 Nov 23 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777,

You have got to be one of the dumbest poster I’ve seen on here. This is just one of your many illogical posts.

Crying about paying for a service. Do you understand the concept of service? No one is obligated to do anything for you. If you want the crafter to repair your stuff then pay them for their service. Don’t like the price then go get raped by the NPC price. It is that simple.
#203 Nov 23 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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@ aur
have you ever taken a class on buiness? guess not.
as what you said is incorrect info. The $12 for a burger. that goes to my food is the cost of food being used. The chef gets paid by the company. And infact your more paying. If i had to pay for food, and the waiter/waitress and chef, food would be more money. Like 100 for a burger at say tgif. That would cover cost of food, the chefs time cooking said food plus the waitress who took time to serve my food.


See? What did I tell you? He's already torn that Jester's cap to shreds.
#205Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 1:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @ ris
#206 Nov 23 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ aur
have you ever taken a class on buiness? guess not.
as what you said is incorrect info. The $12 for a burger. that goes to my food is the cost of food being used. The chef gets paid by the company. And infact your more paying. If i had to pay for food, and the waiter/waitress and chef, food would be more money. Like 100 for a burger at say tgif. That would cover cost of food, the chefs time cooking said food plus the waitress who took time to serve my food.

here is a question lol you need to get a ride from a friend, you only have to pay for gas.
How you you feel if you not old paid for his gas but the convienvce of taking you over a cab diver? that is the better analogy.
like he went ok, i need 10 dollors for gas plus another 20 just for driving you?


First off Irish I too have a learning disability so don't feel too bad about that no matterad what people say. But when it comes to what you pay for repairs you are dead wrong. I get into fights all the time with crafters. Mostly becuse a lot of them think they are gods gift to the game and love to tell you how much better than you they are. But when it comes to geting a reapair you only really have 2 things you can do.

1 you can use the NPC and pay around 30k+ to repair you gear to 75%.

2 you can pay a crafter to repair you gear to 100%.

I use option 2 becus at my lvl my gear can cost well over 400k to get everything repaired to 75% I like to use the 3x mat cost rull. I offer the crafter 6k for a repair where the item needed would cost 2k. This way i cover the crafter if they have a fail or i give the crafter a nice 4k tip on top of the item cost. You realy don't need to pay any more than this.

The crafters here who are ******** that you should pay 50% of what the NPC ask for are on crack. use the 3x rull and I bet you will never have a problem geting that repair.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 2:21am by Sethern79
#207 Nov 23 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Default
This will be my first post on the Zam Forums, and I am sad that it is in regard to repair fees or "tips." I will be honest I did not read every post in this thread, but I think I got the basic gist of what crafters and battle crafters are trying to convey. If someone has already touched bases on the point I am about to make, please forgive me.

Greed, this is the problem both sides of the coin face. In a game that is driver on player-to-player relations, both parties should come to a middle ground when it comes to the bread and butter of each "faction" shards for the crafters and repairs for the battle crafters. As it stands both sides are viewing this from a greedy prospective, which is sad since without the player-to-player relation it would put a damper on any form of progress in later content.

While, I understand some players make a good chunk of their daily profit off of shards, I think this should not be so, shards should be sold at a lower rate, and in turn crafters should repair gear at a fair price. I know the idea I am trying to convey is purely the product of an underdeveloped mind that is still naive to the world’s workings, but that is the beauty of an MMO, it takes you from the real world and puts you into another. Why not pretend that within the world we share and explore throughout FFXIV is a peaceful one among the players and work as a team, but just cut throats and business majors.

What do we have to lose? Battle Crafters can still make a good amount of money selling shards at a fair cost, coupled with leves, while crafters can also profit on other venues such as selling the item.

Think about it, is it fair that everyone else who does not enjoy the crafting aspect of the game should suffer? Ease up on one faction, I am sure the other would follow. Players rule this world, granted it has its own share of problems and with time it will be fixed, however do you think new blood would want to join a game that is full of players that are controled by greed? Both sides should ease up and make a deal among each other so newer players will not feel ostracized from the community the moment they log in.
#208 Nov 23 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ aur
have you ever taken a class on buiness? guess not.
as what you said is incorrect info. The $12 for a burger. that goes to my food is the cost of food being used. The chef gets paid by the company. And infact your more paying. If i had to pay for food, and the waiter/waitress and chef, food would be more money. Like 100 for a burger at say tgif. That would cover cost of food, the chefs time cooking said food plus the waitress who took time to serve my food.


You're talking to someone with a certain amount of experience in the restaurant industry and I can tell you flat out without any hesitation that food cost represents about 30% of what a restaurant charges you for the food you eat there. The rest is staff wages, overhead, and profit. Don't even try to argue; you're dead wrong.

Just...so wrong. As in, take all the wrong I've ever encounter on these boards since they were started for XIV here two years or so ago and bundle it all up into one package. That's how wrong you are.

I'm flabbergasted at how wrong you are. Is being that wrong even legal?

You're out of your league.

And wrong.

Quote:
here is a question lol you need to get a ride from a friend, you only have to pay for gas.
How you you feel if you not old paid for his gas but the convienvce of taking you over a cab diver? that is the better analogy.
like he went ok, i need 10 dollors for gas plus another 20 just for driving you?


From a friend? They wouldn't be much of a friend if they charged for their time, would they? From a stranger? I could see it. The problem with your analogy is that when we're talking about craters charging for repairs, we're talking about transactions between strangers, not friends. And I can assure you that if you behave the same in game and demand the same in game as what we're saying here, I would not consider you a friend. I'd consider you a cheap mooch to be avoided.
#209 Nov 23 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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First off I have to say that after reading through 2 pages of this thread I want to gouge my eyes out with a spork.


That said you won't find many if any crafters willing to repair for free.

If you feel that you shouldn't have to pay a crafter for repairs that's fine. You'll either have to try to find one that will do it free just to be nice(not likely), pay for repairs from an ncp, level the crafts needed for repairs yourself, or run around with broken gear.
Saying its greedy and unfair and what not is fine but its not going to change the way things are.
Its the same way crafters think shards and crystals are overpriced but complaining about it isn't going to change it.


The game is made so that if you choose to only lvl in one aspect of the game you have to depend on others for certain things. Wether its paying a crafter to fix your gear or paying a fighter or gatherer for your crafting mats.


If you don't do it all yourself you have to pay someone else to do what you can't.



#210 Nov 23 2010 at 1:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
@ ris
i'm not asking for pity i'm asking to not be insulted BIG DIFFERENCE.
as per pikko no one got the right to make personal attacks in general
and will contact her/him soon about all of the present in this thread.
stick fight what i'm saying not fight me.
i only said something in fighting the topic not anyone where personally. If i have it was after it happen to me first.
do youselves a favor... and just really think about the fee WITH MATS GIVEN.
mmo are not REAL LIFE and i'm not paying someone to play a class.
you guys pay to play your classes. And are also making money for it.

dom/dol/dow pay the crafters for food, drinks, weapons armor and accessories. so the crafters make money off of the other classes.

the other classes make money by selling the matiels and shards to the crafters.
so all classes need each other. and do pay each other fairly for that.

simply put i sell 10K in crafts to you to buy a 100K sword from you.
we are both leveling.
where does the fee come from?


You are making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

What you are paying for with the repair fee is a bribe to convince the crafter to repair your item. Like any other bribe, paying too much makes you look suspicious and paying too little makes you look bad.

Just because someone ranked up a crafting class does not mean they want to do your repairs for you. Making that assumption is very insulting and if you approach a FFXIV crafter in that manner, it will pretty much guarantee them saying they won't do it without a charge from all but the most tolerant.

The FFXIV crafting environment is totally different than most other games and approaching it the same way is not a healthy idea.
#211Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 1:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) here is what you guys need to learn
#212 Nov 23 2010 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is what you guys need to learn
me asking for free repairs means I'm not spand any money for it. Which would also mean i am not spending money on mats. And that is not what i am saying.

if i supply you the means to repair my stuff in what way does that effect you minus time? You are not paying for anything to repair my item.
if i supply you with mats, it means i took the time or money to get them.
why should you pay for time when i am not payed for mine?
Repairs isn't a service, using your supplies IS the service. I can pay you for the supplies used. no issues.

What crafters fail to understand is this
basic econ.
1 level and get mats. i inturn use those mats to supply you crafters with supplies to level your craft. All you are paying is cost of the item not the time it took to get said item.
in turn when you make items by using the items i sold you you. You sell me the product. I'm paying you the cost of the item not time it took to make that item.
So why tack on a fee just because of time?


ill spell it out for you again while i eat my popcorn and laugh at you


So you dont wanna tip me or pay a fee? or not just me, anyone.

so, when i ask for 5k on top of the mats(which may cost 10k total) are you saying im ripping you off when it will in fact cost you 4-5 times more to repair your gear at the npc?

oh me oh my, whatever shall i do, im not repairing your gear. guess how much a crafter suffers by not repairing your gear.....NOT AT ALL
who does suffer? YOU

get the point?
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#213 Nov 23 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Good
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Irish,

The money you save over the other repair options is the service.
#214 Nov 23 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is what you guys need to learn
me asking for free repairs means I'm not spand any money for it. Which would also mean i am not spending money on mats. And that is not what i am saying.

if i supply you the means to repair my stuff in what way does that effect you minus time? You are not paying for anything to repair my item.
if i supply you with mats, it means i took the time or money to get them.
why should you pay for time when i am not payed for mine?
Repairs isn't a service, using your supplies IS the service. I can pay you for the supplies used. no issues.

What crafters fail to understand is this
basic econ.
1 level and get mats. i inturn use those mats to supply you crafters with supplies to level your craft. All you are paying is cost of the item not the time it took to get said item.
in turn when you make items by using the items i sold you you. You sell me the product. I'm paying you the cost of the item not time it took to make that item.
So why tack on a fee just because of time?


Let me ask you this. You say you play FFXI. How much do you pay for a port? Not the free ports from your friends. A port from a random player when you need to get to say juno from windurst fast.
#215 Nov 23 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is what you guys need to learn

Repairs isn't a service, using your supplies IS the service.




Errrr...... no offence but this... is VERY wrong = =;;
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#216 Nov 23 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Watch and learn kids

This is what we adults call "out of touch with reality"
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#217Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 2:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) actually in ffxi On lakshmi no one teleports anymore. So 0 gil. i walk. Back when they did. 1K gil. Why i have no issue paying? because they use their mp to do it. I'm not paying for their time i'm paying for the use of their mp.
#218Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 2:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok that was the final straw i'm reporting this thread.
#219 Nov 23 2010 at 2:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh god, what will it take? You are paying for the convenience, not
the time it takes. If this isn't fair by your standards, there are
more costly options available. So this convenience has no value?
#220 Nov 23 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
actually in ffxi On lakshmi no one teleports anymore. So 0 gil. i walk. Back when they did. 1K gil. Why i have no issue paying? because they use their mp to do it. I'm not paying for their time i'm paying for the use of their mp.

All in all i'm not asking for free repairs.
i spend my money to supply you. You don't spend any money.
Repairs are not a service the use of mats IS the service.
and in truth, you guys make money when i buy items you make.
because you used you money to make them.
If you have to use your money to repair my item i'd gladly pay you.
like in real life no one is ever paid for 5 min of work just for conveince.


Happens all the time in real life. Vale parking takes 5 minutes of conveniance. people pay that all the time.

I don't even know why I bother replying. You clearly can not grasp the concept of paying someone for their service. I don't care what it is but when you ask someone for their service you usualy tip or ask to pay them for the service they perform. Even if you supply everything that is needed, you still need them cause with out them your material is useless.
#221 Nov 23 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
ok that was the final straw i'm reporting this thread.
I'm not nor have every attack anyone of you in a personal manner i only attacked the topic
you guys are taking what i am saying too personally.
You guys also take crafting too personally as well as the game.


People are simply frustrated by the definition of service you are working with. What you are defining as service is what is actually defined as "goods" by everything else.

In fact, the actual definition of service by many online dictionaries or references explicitly separate out the two terms.

This web page may explain things better for you.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Service

Then again, it might not.


#222 Nov 23 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
actually in ffxi On lakshmi no one teleports anymore. So 0 gil. i walk. Back when they did. 1K gil. Why i have no issue paying? because they use their mp to do it. I'm not paying for their time i'm paying for the use of their mp.

All in all i'm not asking for free repairs.
i spend my money to supply you. You don't spend any money.
Repairs are not a service the use of mats IS the service.
and in truth, you guys make money when i buy items you make.
because you used you money to make them.
If you have to use your money to repair my item i'd gladly pay you.
like in real life no one is ever paid for 5 min of work just for conveince.


No you where not paying for there mana. you mite think you where but you are wrong. The price you where paying was bribe to get the casters to spend there time to port you to said location. It is no difrent with crafters. You are paying them a bribe to spend there time to repair your gear.

This is not WoW where the crafters like enchanters will enchant your gear for free with mats. You see the enchanter needs you and your mats to lvl enchanting at a faster and cheeper rate. Crafters in FFXIV do not need to repair your gear to get SP they get much more making and selling gear. So what you do is sweeten the pot to make it atractiv for them to repair your gear. You offer them a bribe of say 4k on top of a 2k repair item so that they want to spend there time helping you becuse it realy dose not help them in any other way.

Now geting your gear fixed is not the only service you get here. You are also geting your item repaired at a much cheeper rate than if you had to go to the NPC + you are geting a 100% fix to your item instead of a 75% fix. The repair NPC charges say 45k for a 75% fix. the Crafter will do that same repair for 6k. Thats not a bad deal at all.
#223 Nov 23 2010 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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What? You've never heard of a service charge?
Businesses routinely charge a fee just for sending
someone, before any work is done.
#224 Nov 23 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Excellent
knarcotic wrote:
Oh god, what will it take? You are paying for the convenience, not
the time it takes. If this isn't fair by your standards, there are
more costly options available. So this convenience has no value?


The convenience has a value, but I think both parties are place to much value on it. In a heavy player driver economy we should be willing to take a lose in profits when it comes to helping our fellow comrades in arms when it comes to repairs and shards, both should be lower in price, it will hurt the bank, but in the long run both parties would benefit greatly.

Player driver economy seemed like a cool idea, but I think players in general are too greedy to handle it. I am a full time crafter, and I repair for tips if they provide the mats or I charge a fee that is based off mat cost + 2,000g. I think this is fair.

Fair is fair, as crafters we should be easier on repair cost, but shard prices should be lowered. Cannot have it both ways.
#225 Nov 23 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know about anyone else but I now feel really dirty for having posted in this thread and contributing to its continuation.


I really hope one of the mods lock this abomination soon.

I need to go shower.
#226Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 2:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) here is the thing guys something no body is seeing.
#227 Nov 23 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is the thing guys something no body is seeing.
it is a convience to me if you repair my stuff AND supply my mats. So i will pay occordanly.
it is not a convience if i supple you with matterials AND pay you.
you guys saying, well beat paying 30K+ for an npc and only get @ max 75%. well here is the issye with that. I'm not supplying the npc with items it takes to repair it either. So i'm paying a npc a fee since i'm not suppling anything.
that my friends is real service. And valet parking is a buiness those people are working, they are not volenteering their time to park my car.
repairing isn't a buiness you making items is. And i already pay you to do that.
repairing is a buiness if you supply your stuff since i do have to pay you for those.
repairing is work, you don;t have to do it. Nor do i need you to do it. Since money is so easy to make i can just use the repair npc. I have no issues with that.


You go ahead and try that. At lvl 40 or so you will lose way more gil geting your weapon repaired than you will make each day.
#228 Nov 23 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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See? What did I tell you? He's already torn that Jester's cap to shreds.


I think I can turn that into a Vintage Jester's Cap!
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#229 Nov 23 2010 at 2:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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So, you are saying that you would rather pay 30k to an npc for a 75% repair
rather than spend 5k on mats and a 2k fee to a crafter for a 100% repair.
That makes no sense.
#230 Nov 23 2010 at 2:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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You could use the repair npc all the time, but you will never be able to sell off your old gear to other players unless you sell it to npc. Moreover, since npc repair is only located in town and they can only repair up to 75%, you will have to face the inconvenience of running back to town very often.

You said earlier in RL no one pays anything for 5 min of their time. I suppose the real world is an extremely absurd one to you then. Bringing back the example where I took my son to see a pediatrician for a diagnosis I already knew, I guess it was extremely wrong for the Doc to charge me $60 for 10 min of his time. I spent a good hour waiting for our turn as the clinic was crowded. By your theory I guess he should be paying me yes?

(Edit)
I just thought to tell you, perhaps this would make more sense.

You are not paying for the person's time to "click a few buttons".
You are paying for the expertise or skill (time spent to acquire) required for the person to be able to "click a few buttons".

Very much like how DoW/DoM can farm high level mobs and have the skill to bring them down, hence bringing up the price of higher lvl mats. The eyes you bought for O-hat... had to be farmed by high lvls. Try asking a lvl 1 War to go do the same thing.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 4:08am by seavida
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#231 Nov 23 2010 at 2:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is the thing guys something no body is seeing.
it is a convience to me if you repair my stuff AND supply my mats. So i will pay occordanly.
it is not a convience if i supple you with matterials AND pay you.
you guys saying, well beat paying 30K+ for an npc and only get @ max 75%. well here is the issye with that. I'm not supplying the npc with items it takes to repair it either. So i'm paying a npc a fee since i'm not suppling anything.
that my friends is real service. And valet parking is a buiness those people are working, they are not volenteering their time to park my car.
repairing isn't a buiness you making items is. And i already pay you to do that.
repairing is a buiness if you supply your stuff since i do have to pay you for those.
repairing is work, you don;t have to do it. Nor do i need you to do it. Since money is so easy to make i can just use the repair npc. I have no issues with that.


You keep saying we don't understand and that we're not seeing and yadda yadda. And then you cry about reporting the thread. How many times now? 4? 5 times you've said you're reporting...something...for stuff...I dunno.

Here's the final word: when it's your time, do what you want with it. When it's my time, I'll do what I want with it. If I don't want to repair your gear for free, I'm not going to repair your gear for free. Period. End of bloody shenanigan. IT'S NOT YOUR TIME TO DICTATE WHAT I WILL OR WILL NOT DO WITH IT. Don't want to pay what I'm asking? Great. Go elsewhere. 5k is too much for me to repair your hauby? AWESOME! Pay the repair NPC 30k to do it instead. For 5k you could have brought it to 100% durability. 30k gets you 75%. Weee! Look at you go! You sure showed me!

Protip: It's too late for you to quit while you're ahead, so just quit.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 12:57am by Aurelius
#232 Nov 23 2010 at 3:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
here is the thing guys something no body is seeing.
it is a convience to me if you repair my stuff AND supply my mats. So i will pay occordanly.
it is not a convience if i supple you with matterials AND pay you.
you guys saying, well beat paying 30K+ for an npc and only get @ max 75%. well here is the issye with that. I'm not supplying the npc with items it takes to repair it either. So i'm paying a npc a fee since i'm not suppling anything.
that my friends is real service. And valet parking is a buiness those people are working, they are not volenteering their time to park my car.
repairing isn't a buiness you making items is. And i already pay you to do that.
repairing is a buiness if you supply your stuff since i do have to pay you for those.
repairing is work, you don;t have to do it. Nor do i need you to do it. Since money is so easy to make i can just use the repair npc. I have no issues with that.


Let's make one thing clear:

Providing a service does not mean the service is always convenient.

Providing a service does not mean the service is always convenient.

Providing a service does not mean the service is always convenient.

Providing a service does not mean the service is always convenient.

Providing a service does not mean the service is always convenient.

Unfortunately, this is actually something that a significant amount of the populace does not understand, which is why you see idiocy like people writing bad checks on purpose, then screaming at their bank to not charge them NSF charges for the bad checks.
#233 Nov 23 2010 at 4:07 AM Rating: Default
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Do you go to mcdonalds, give them a bun, a burger, perhaps some cheese and sauce, then pay them to make it for you? Perhaps armorers should supply the mats themselves and then charge for service. Just because they spent hours ranking up, doesn't mean they can sit on their asses, wait for people to supply AND pay them.
#234 Nov 23 2010 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irish, your dyslexia is just the tip of the iceberg. Or the icing on the cake, which turns out to be a 500-ton mega-muffin. Your inability to get a grasp of that we simply don't agree with you concept of value, reward and effort is beyond good and evil. You are an ignorant moron severely severed from common sense, reality and the rest of the player community.


Somebody had to say what everybody thought. Your sacrifice is most appreciated; may the ban be with you.



#235Irishclass777, Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 5:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) reported thread. Good luck.
#236 Nov 23 2010 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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#237 Nov 23 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:

<snip>
i still think it is wrong to be charge a fee for no reason.
<snip>


If you take your computer into say Best Buy to get repaired and they want to charge you $300 for the part and $80 for the repair work. You say you want think about it and walk around the store and see the part for $150 on the shelf. You buy the part and take it to the repair guy and hand it over... guess what they are still going to charge you the $80 for the repair. And the argument that you spent the time buying the part and carrying to him was so much 'work' that the repair should be free... well, try it. It will give the repair guy a good story to tell his buddy as they laugh their bums off.


Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 7:06am by Thornpaw
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#238 Nov 23 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
reported thread. Good luck.
know that i attacked the topic not anyone else.
you guys werte bullying me for no reason what so ever. I had a different opinion then you and was bullied for it over 100 times.
What exactly did i personally do to you guys?
suggestion if everyone here as smart as yall are trying to be, you wouldn't make petty attacks to my typing, or opinion.
i still think it is wrong to be charge a fee for no reason.
you guys are doing that and when i do play i'll make sure to do my part to not have that fee around.
i do plan ov lvling everything. I will not charge a fee if ppl give me mats As it is not needed. I wouldn't be using any money so i would have nothing to loose by not charging an extra fee on top of ppl buying/farming mats
Also docters and most jobs are paid x amount of money per hour/ per day/ per week.
crafting isn't a job no one is paying you to level your class.
and if you don;t spend money on repairing someones item Why charge them for it? and convience being the reason is flawed


This is just sad. I myself suffer from Dyslexic ADHD and Bipolar. My spelling and gramer is probably worse than yours. What people where attack is you lack of understanding of the game its self and for that matter life. I saw only one post that really attacked your spelling and that was tame frome what I have seen in my days.

Let me give you a hint about how to deal with life and the internet when you have learning disabilities. Grow a thick skin and move on. I am 31 years old. I grew up in a time when people like me where tossed into LD classes and forgoten. Instead of learning we where sent on feald trips when others where taking test becuse it was thought that we could not learn and there for where swepet under the carpet so as not to bring down the schools oh so inportent test scores.

You think you have it hard? take it from someone who knows. you only make it hard on your self. Sure others could offer a bit of understanding but this is the internet. theas people do not know you from a hole in the ground. they see bad gramer and bad spelling and think wow there is a dumb guy. it is up to you to prove them wrong and in the mean time don't take things so personly. people like us can not aford to git ****** off every time some guy on the internet makes fun of us.

Another thing that would help you out more than you know is to sit down and think befor you type. Think long and hard about what you want to say. make sure it makes sence. A lot of times for people like my self things sound good in our heads at first but when we stop and think about it we see it makes no sence at all.

I am not attacking you. **** I have been you and in many ways still am. But i have lived threw this for a long time my friend and truth is it is up to us to form a thick skin if we wish to keep on having fun in forums andonline games such as mmo's. After reading many of your post I realy don't think you have thought this argument out much if at all in your head. you show a veary large lack of understanding of what it is you are talking about and that is not the fault of the people you think are attacking you. that is on you not them.

#239 Nov 23 2010 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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73 posts
When I first read this thread yesterday, I was laughing at it, and the sheer inability for Irishclass to grasp a simple, logical idea. I thought it was funny. No matter how easy we have made it, by using simple analogies and reference - she doesn't understand the concept.

Now that i've read up to this page, I feel bad. For someone to argue a null and void point.. I feel sad - I hope you find something else to do Irishclass, because this just isn't healthy for your mind. You don't play FFXIV, there is no point in arguing further.

We can agree to disagree.. no one here is able to sway your opinion - as I don't believe you are even reading and comprehending most of the logical, common sense posts.
I hope you can see that the general opinion is that you are wrong. Be ok with that - you are not able to change our opinion on the matter.

No amount of reporting, crying foul or continued posts will change either sides opinions.

Just let this thread die.
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#240 Nov 23 2010 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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778 posts
Irishclass777 wrote:
reported thread. Good luck.
know that i attacked the topic not anyone else.
you guys werte bullying me for no reason what so ever. I had a different opinion then you and was bullied for it over 100 times.
What exactly did i personally do to you guys?
suggestion if everyone here as smart as yall are trying to be, you wouldn't make petty attacks to my typing, or opinion.
i still think it is wrong to be charge a fee for no reason.
you guys are doing that and when i do play i'll make sure to do my part to not have that fee around.
i do plan ov lvling everything. I will not charge a fee if ppl give me mats As it is not needed. I wouldn't be using any money so i would have nothing to loose by not charging an extra fee on top of ppl buying/farming mats
Also docters and most jobs are paid x amount of money per hour/ per day/ per week.
crafting isn't a job no one is paying you to level your class.
and if you don;t spend money on repairing someones item Why charge them for it? and convience being the reason is flawed


Actually not everyone's verbally (if you want to call it that.) assaulting you. I've seen some pretty good valid explanations here about how your logic is flawed to them. By the way, calling your logic "flawed" isn't attacking you either. And actually if I recall, Pikko's comment was mainly about those who love or hate FFXIV bashing the opposite side and Karma-bombing them to **** and back. Say you don't like FFXIV for x reason, I suddenly start bashing you for it because of Y reason and suddenly you've got a player attacking a player incident. All most have tried to point out here is the reasoning behind paying a crafter to repair your stuff. If you don't want to by all means you're free not to...

But they put they "offer" in there for a reason, so you can. Like I said by all means you're free to refuse to pay for it and supply the materials yourself. Some might accept this and then you're set. However your odds of finding someone to do so are pretty slim, especially with the type of stuff you've been posting here. Ever hear of the term 'You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar'? It means if you persuade someone to repair it for you (IE offer something for their time, it's just common courtesy.) with a reward you'll get a more favorable option than just expecting them to repair it. And like it or not, FFXIV may be a game but we all put our time into playing be it melee, magic, tank, or even a crafter. I'm not going to get into some long-winded debate trying to explain it, it's already been done several times already.

Maybe you just don't want to accept it or strongly believe your way is right, if so good for you. Just don't expect a favorable response if you flat out demand someone to do it for free because you supply the items. You're more than welcomed to take your business elsewhere just as they're more than welcomed to refuse you service.

And by the way, here's an example of that term above... I wanted a Lapis Lazuli earring, now people don't normally sell these because they don't sell. First time I found someone to do it they kept failing. Well, they couldn't so you know what they did? They gave me the materials to bring to a higher level crafter, free of charge. The deal was I just supply the shards if they succeed. So you know what I did? I gave the crafter some shards for his time and thanked him. I eventually found someone else who could make it for me and they failed the first attempt, then used their own materials and succeeded the second. All they wanted was a single crystal for the synth. Again what did I do? I paid them the crystal AND threw in several more just for their time. The end result now is I've got a few crafter buddies who would willingly repair my stuff for free, no mats required and I don't have to pay a single gil. Will I still pay? Of course! But the point is, show them gratitude it'll get you farther than you'll ever imagine with what you want. And by the way, YES I do give out free materials sometimes to friends and people if I do need'em. I NPC alot of my excess junk but if someone else can use it I pass it onto them.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 5:21am by SamusKnight

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 5:29am by SamusKnight
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#241 Nov 23 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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685 posts
Everyone, just wait. Irish will finally join the game, play her DoW/DoM jobs, then realize that she's getting a TON of gil relatively quickly. Then she'll realize that dropping 10k for a tip is nothing, drop in the bucket.

Once again, let's compare the usual gil purse size:
my DoM/DoW linkshell mates: millions of gil
me, playing mostly as DoL/DoH: hundred thousands of gil

That's an order of magnitude difference, if we collected data on how much money people who play mostly DoW/DoM have and how much those who play mostly DoL/DoH have and ran the statistics, there will be a definite difference.

Battleleves, yeah, you not only get the reward, you also get shards and mats that drop off the mobs. Craftingleves, you only get rewards. And often times the rewards aren't all that helpful. Ores, copper ingots, latex. I have close to 150 quicksilvers, 100 copper ingots.

And I'm not even a completely pure DoH/DoL, I leveled gladiator some just to get crystals. If I hadn't done that, I'd have like no gil, it'd all go towards these expensive crystals.
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#242 Nov 23 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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26 posts
She may realize that she has tons of gil,
but she may continue to believe that she is paying
for the repair by supplying the mats. In her mind, she
is doing the service by supplying the mats, those mats
being payment for the repair. She fails to understand
that supplying mats and paying a crafter a fee is much
cheaper than using an npc or leveling crafts.
#243 Nov 23 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
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227 posts
Kukukichu wrote:
Do you go to mcdonalds, give them a bun, a burger, perhaps some cheese and sauce, then pay them to make it for you? Perhaps armorers should supply the mats themselves and then charge for service. Just because they spent hours ranking up, doesn't mean they can sit on their asses, wait for people to supply AND pay them.


Side note...if you did do this, it would be about 3 times healthier than buying a normal burger from McD's. ^__^

But your logic is flawed. If you did this, you would still pay them to take the time to cook your burger for you, as they're providing a service you are unable to do for whatever reason (let's just say you don't have a grill or even a stove), as well as for their "expertise" (kinda pushing it for a McD's example, but just roll with it).

Even if you brought in the grill, gas/fuel, and cooking implements for them to use, they're still going to charge you for actually making your burger. That's how the world works.
#244 Nov 23 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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568 posts
Economy isn't a democracy.

It just happens.

You can say item X is too expensive or cheap but saying it won't have any effect on the price.

That's why I don't get why there's already 5 pages of this o_O
#245 Nov 23 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
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227 posts
seiferdincht wrote:
Economy isn't a democracy.

It just happens.

You can say item X is too expensive or cheap but saying it won't have any effect on the price.

That's why I don't get why there's already 5 pages of this o_O


"I know I'm right, don't try to confuse me with facts!"
#246 Nov 23 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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2,153 posts
Quote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Economy isn't a democracy.

It just happens.

You can say item X is too expensive or cheap but saying it won't have any effect on the price.

That's why I don't get why there's already 5 pages of this o_O

"I know I'm right, don't try to confuse me with facts!"


More like "I want the world to be in a way I like it, don't confront me with reality" ;)
#247 Nov 23 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
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227 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Economy isn't a democracy.

It just happens.

You can say item X is too expensive or cheap but saying it won't have any effect on the price.

That's why I don't get why there's already 5 pages of this o_O

"I know I'm right, don't try to confuse me with facts!"


More like "I want the world to be in a way I like it, don't confront me with reality" ;)


What is this mysterious "reality" you speak of...is it something good to eat? Will it help me save 15% on my car insurance? Inquiring minds want to know!
#248 Nov 23 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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165 posts
seiferdincht wrote:
That's why I don't get why there's already 5 pages of this o_O


*wryly* Because people are reasonably bored and Irish is a big juicy target, with the illogically stubborn, badly spelled, poorly thought out logical constructs. The wounded cries of "....you're all wrong!" are fairly irresistible as well since they persist, getting more more frantic, which leads to a circling pattern as people want their own piece of fun before it's all over.
#249 Nov 23 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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85 posts
Irishclass777 wrote:
actually in ffxi On lakshmi no one teleports anymore. So 0 gil. i walk. Back when they did. 1K gil. Why i have no issue paying? because they use their mp to do it. I'm not paying for their time i'm paying for the use of their mp.

All in all i'm not asking for free repairs.
i spend my money to supply you. You don't spend any money.
Repairs are not a service the use of mats IS the service.
and in truth, you guys make money when i buy items you make.
because you used you money to make them.
If you have to use your money to repair my item i'd gladly pay you.
like in real life no one is ever paid for 5 min of work just for conveince.


I think it damages the equipment of the crafter to repair people's stuff. Does that merit some cost?
#250 Nov 23 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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568 posts
I wasn't trying to forbid anyone for crying about it. Just said it won't make a difference.

**** I'll join in on the fun:

"I want high-end graphics cards to be cheaper! Waah!"

=D
#251 Nov 23 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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225 posts
Trouble is what people are completely missing the boat on this. Battlers have a commodity that are useless to them, but make crafters jump through hoops for. Battlers wouldn't even have to give gil for gear, if they offered the same monetary value in crystals. Not one crafter would deny a gear / crystal trade in equal monetary value.

After a crafter reaches a certain point gil is nothing but an inconvience. Crystals make crafters all warm and fuzzy inside. You gear would be repair much more quickly, you'd have the gear you wanted much more faster, if you offered crystals instead of gil.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 11:10am by Spyrit178
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