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Would static SP facilitate botting???Follow

#1 Nov 23 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Honest question, because this is my first MMO and I have little knowledge in programming.

But static sp, if i understand correctly, is that every mob gives a fixed amount of sp. So a bot that auto-grinds all day would advance at a fairly rapid pace???

It seems that static sp is a directional change rather than incremental???
#2 Nov 23 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
I just wonder if AFKs will still gain skill points. Quite a few of my old grind partners AFK'd for physical exp when they reached rank 50 DoW/DoM.
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#3 Nov 23 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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I think a more relevant and important question might be...

Who cares?

No really, not trying to be mean guy but sooner or later you guys just have to get over it. There are bots in every MMO. Every single one. This isn't FFXI. Stop responding to everything like it is.
#4 Nov 23 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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A bot grinding random SP all day would still get a ton of SP at the end of the day. A static SP reward alleviates frustration and allows all jobs to advance evenly, but it doesn't do much to the long-term SP gain of a bot. Why would getting exactly 250 from every mob be different to a bot from getting an average of 250 each over the course of a day (for example)?

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 2:55pm by Caesura

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 2:56pm by Caesura
#5 Nov 23 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeah if it is a choice between making my leveling easier AND making botting easier

OR

making my leveling more difficult and making botting more difficult

I will take the option that makes my leveling easier.

SE should focus on banning the botters, not on making playing suck more.
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#6 Nov 23 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius, you comment is neither relevant nor constructive.

A simple "yes" or "no" would qualify as an answer.

But to entertain your line of argument, just because there are always criminals in society does not mean we should lift the law.
#7 Nov 23 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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As far as botters, it makes no difference to them, as they aren't slowed down by the randomness of the current system. They simply gain N SP/hour on average, and now will get a more steady one instead of prone to random rate. No difference in the long run.

I too wonder about AFKers -- do you need to actually engage the mob, or just being near with weapon drawn count, etc?

Some more questions concerning the new system that I keep asking myself?

1) Do DoH/DoL get an even share of XP if they throw stones with this new system? Would that mean being able to "leech" crafting jobs to 50 in XP parties?

2) How does Sentinel gain ranks? Is it split or given to the two classes? Do you actually have to block anything, or will all casters get rank50 sentinel from simply putting a shield on their off-hand for a while? If that case, would it slow down the progress of THM and CON who wear shields compared to staff/cane/radial users?
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#8 Nov 23 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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bentojumbo wrote:
Aurelius, you comment is neither relevant nor constructive.

A simple "yes" or "no" would qualify as an answer.

But to entertain your line of argument, just because there are always criminals in society does not mean we should lift the law.


My comment is entirely relevant and more constructive than your post. Why the "???" at the end of your question? Are you approaching a panic state? "ZOMFG WUT IF TEH BOTTERZ R MOAR?!?!!"

It doesn't matter how changes like this affect botting. At all. Frankly, I think it was a stupid question like somehow botters aren't earning SP now but with this change they might be so they'll be ranking up botters and ...so what? What do you think these bots are there for? Shards, sporty, shards. Not SP. As long as they're earning shards, they're earning gil. And then when they (and the players who are still uptight about all this crap) realize that gil is a trivial thing in XIV and that far fewer people are going to be willing to buy than they were in XI, you'll end up with an MMO where RMT is never more than a minor nuisance.

Which brings me back to the original question...who cares? Mouthy, stupid, inept players bother me more than RMT.
#9 Nov 23 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
bentojumbo wrote:
Aurelius, you comment is neither relevant nor constructive.

A simple "yes" or "no" would qualify as an answer.

But to entertain your line of argument, just because there are always criminals in society does not mean we should lift the law.


My comment is entirely relevant and more constructive than your post. Why the "???" at the end of your question? Are you approaching a panic state? "ZOMFG WUT IF TEH BOTTERZ R MOAR?!?!!"

It doesn't matter how changes like this affect botting. At all. Frankly, I think it was a stupid question like somehow botters aren't earning SP now but with this change they might be so they'll be ranking up botters and ...so what? What do you think these bots are there for? Shards, sporty, shards. Not SP. As long as they're earning shards, they're earning gil. And then when they (and the players who are still uptight about all this crap) realize that gil is a trivial thing in XIV and that far fewer people are going to be willing to buy than they were in XI, you'll end up with an MMO where RMT is never more than a minor nuisance.

Which brings me back to the original question...who cares? Mouthy, stupid, inept players bother me more than RMT.


Firstly, I was not panic.

Secondly, I never express concern about gil or bots having an effect on my experience of the game. I asked a technical question and expect an answer, which again, yours alone does not qualify.

Finally, you have rage issues and need help. Hope you get better.
#10 Nov 23 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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bentojumbo wrote:

Firstly, I was not panic.


"???" at the end of a question indicates urgency. If your question isn't urgent, one '?' is adequate. Unless you're 14 years old, in which case you're just going to argue anything you can anyways so do your worst.

Quote:
Secondly, I never express concern about gil or bots having an effect on my experience of the game. I asked a technical question and expect an answer, which again, yours alone does not qualify.


Okay then, the answer is NO. Static SP has NOTHING TO DO WITH BOTTING.

Happy now?
#11 Nov 23 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I actually kind of agree with Aur here, it's a rather irrelevant question to ask. There will always be bots and RMT in every game because there will always be people stupid/lazy enough to use either or.

And from a technical pov, unless the SP is set to 500 per kill it really won't increase or decrease the average gained by any bot. Since a bot plays 24 hours a day, their average SP gained will always be higher than a real player. A static amount of SP gained is neither a help nor a hindrance to a computer program, especially since even with the old system it only took a week or two for bots to get 50.
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#12 Nov 23 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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bentojumbo wrote:
Honest question, because this is my first MMO and I have little knowledge in programming.

But static sp, if i understand correctly, is that every mob gives a fixed amount of sp. So a bot that auto-grinds all day would advance at a fairly rapid pace???

It seems that static sp is a directional change rather than incremental???


First of all, where you get the info abt the static sp thing fm?
Quote:
The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed.

It didnt tell us the sp gain is static, it can still be a random number within a preset range.

Secondly, botters no not, everyone is getting more SP in the new patch. The change itself didnt encourge botting.

In fact, in the old system, repeating the basic attack is the best way to gain SP, which bots are good at repeating simple action and thus good at maximize SP gain.

However, with the new system, killing a mob faster is more efficient for sp gain. Maximizing damage output require more sophisticated control and bots are less efficient at that.

The change actually disencourage botting 'cause they gain SP slower relatively compare to manual control.
#13 Nov 23 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE already encourages botting by having random SP and "fatigue".

Bots don't get bored, bots don't get tired of hitting the same mobs over and over for minimal SP due to the fatigue system.
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#14 Nov 23 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Siulang wrote:


First of all, where you get the info abt the static sp thing fm?



Character Progression
Accuracy

The accuracy rates for actions in general, both physical and magic, have been increased, making it easier for players to land attacks. This will, subsequently, result in more skill points.

Skill Points in Parties

The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties.

The above changes will serve to increase the tempo of battle, and also allow players to obtain more skill points than was previously possible. To further facilitate the process of ranking up, the amount of skill points required to attain ranks 11 through 31 has been reduced. The reductions are most significant for the rank range of 11 through 20, as we would like to enable players the ability to engage in more goal-oriented content, such as the hunting of notorious monsters, at an earlier stage of play. Further information regarding these changes will be released in the version update details Topics post of November 24.


See bold. It is worded kinda funky...but to me that says static. One lump sum regardless of hits.
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#15 Nov 23 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Perhaps they should have said 'guaranteed SP' instead of static or fixed.... provided you don't outrank the mob engaged by a huge number of ranks, of course. So, the SP may still be random(ish) (for example, anywhere between 100-200) but at least you are going to get some at the end of the fight instead of, like now, being able to gain anything between 0-500 (with 0 SP happening too often).

Unless they change the SP amount needed for each rank (which they apparently are going to for R11-20, R20-31 - although to what real extent we yet have to wait and see), we still might need to grind a lot anyway if we're getting, say, 250 SP average per mob. But that's only guessing.... Less than a day now to see the changes they make.

And to (finally) answer the OP question; I don't think this really helps (or quite frankly handicaps, while we're at it) the botters in any other way than for them to have to make new botting macros - to target and kill mobs as fast as possible now, as opposed to spamming basic attack. They will still earn more or less the same amount of shards and gil and, perhaps, level faster (for those types of bots that sell accounts with R50 characters).

As someone else mentioned, what SE needs to do is put the money and time into GMs that actually check botting complaints and act upon them if true. I really can't think of a better way than that when it comes to cutting them down - an ingame police if you will, no matter how 'ugly' it sounds. All the impossible and ingenious ways in terms of game mechanics have proven to be inefficient so many times, in so many MMOs.

(EDIT for typos and stuff)

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 4:32pm by Briker
#16 Nov 23 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Default
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Op appears to be a Troll. His unconstructive question was designed to start a fear spres that this game does nto need any more of.

Rank down for this OP his fearmongering is childish and how he treats responders is even worse he is obviously imature and unwilling to allow constructive comments be posted without berating replys.


Grow up Kid
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#17 Nov 23 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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cornyboob wrote:
Op appears to be a Troll. His unconstructive question was designed to start a fear spres that this game does nto need any more of.

Rank down for this OP his fearmongering is childish and how he treats responders is even worse he is obviously imature and unwilling to allow constructive comments be posted without berating replys.


Grow up Kid


He asked a question, nothing "unconstructive" about his OP.

And the only person he got into a shouting match with was Aurelius, and that's pretty much usually expected. XD

So I gave him a rate up to counteract your rate down.
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#18 Nov 23 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
So I gave him a rate up to counteract your rate down.


cornyboob can't rate up or down because he doesn't have scholar...
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#19 Nov 23 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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cornyboob wrote:
Op appears to be a Troll. His unconstructive question was designed to start a fear spres that this game does nto need any more of.

Rank down for this OP his fearmongering is childish and how he treats responders is even worse he is obviously imature and unwilling to allow constructive comments be posted without berating replys.


Grow up Kid


I m asking how a structural change would affect the behavior of a specific agent. From the above comments I see good deal of constructive ideas and arguments.

Fearmongering has to have a purposive property, which in this context would be to sabotage the in-game community. It is simply not the case, as I am enjoying the game and will continue my subscription. I am, however, sorry I made you feel this way.

A thank-you to Zorvan for you support. The shouting match with Aurelius was not my intent.

#20 Nov 23 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
So I gave him a rate up to counteract your rate down.


cornyboob can't rate up or down because he doesn't have scholar...


Dammnit, I've been cornyboob-ed!
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