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#1 Nov 23 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a level 12 arm and I can't manage to finish a single item for any of the level 10 leve's. It's literally driving me insane and pushing me away from the game (after spending 3 hours searching bazaars in for gear.....lvl 15 lnc with lvl 1 gear <.<). Is there a trick or something I'm just not seeing? I know that if I want to lvl I need gear. To get gear it seems I have to craft. If I can't complete any lvl 10 leve's at lvl 12, I'm not sure where to go from there...Any help would be greatly appreciated
#2 Nov 23 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
The crafting leve says rank 10 but it can give you a recipe that is ranked 10-14. So you have to look up what its asking you to make in the leve to make sure its some thing you can actually make at 10. Just go to any database and look up armorer recipes to figure out what you can grind on to rank up.

Depending on your level the only thing you wanna be getting is an upgraded weapon, and then worry about armor as you go.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2010 11:25pm by Dragonizzle31
#3 Nov 23 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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By rank 12 you should be using an upgraded tool. For armorer, try to track down a bronze raising hammer. You should also be looking at getting some basic crafting gear. Hempen Scarf and Hempen Half-Gloves would be cheap as **** by now. Beyond that, if the goal is simply to succeed at the synthesis attempt, you should really only be using Standard Synthesis and, where appropriate, Wait. Rapid Synthesis success rate was nerfed to ****, and Bold Synthesis is only used if you're trying to drive up the quality of the finished piece.

Always pay attention to the messages you're given. If you see a message saying that the recipe requires "larger-scale accommodations" it's telling you that you should be getting facility support. The final pane of the recipe UI will tell you what level of support you should be getting (Common/Guild/Master).
#4 Nov 24 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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2 things that youll need to know as a crafter


1) is the synth "sparking" that ism, do you see sparks flying from it, if you are, your gear is not good enough for that synth and your level, update it

2) the requirements to do a recipe sometimes show recomendations, if you do not meet these recomendations, you recieve a penalty that is very very noticable til you are several levels above the synth. If it has 2 requirements, dont even bother with the recipe unless you have support at the least(which will satisfy one of those requirements)
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#5 Nov 24 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
2 things that youll need to know as a crafter


1) is the synth "sparking" that ism, do you see sparks flying from it, if you are, your gear is not good enough for that synth and your level, update it


Hmmm? The spark only happens when you do Rapid or Touch Up AFAIK, and I've been attempting recipe that I've barely met minimum level to even attempt (I had been grinding half of r34 GLD on Silver Needle, with r34 GLD is the lowest rank that the system allow you to).
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#6 Nov 24 2010 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Vedis wrote:
2 things that youll need to know as a crafter


1) is the synth "sparking" that ism, do you see sparks flying from it, if you are, your gear is not good enough for that synth and your level, update it


Hmmm? The spark only happens when you do Rapid or Touch Up AFAIK, and I've been attempting recipe that I've barely met minimum level to even attempt (I had been grinding half of r34 GLD on Silver Needle, with r34 GLD is the lowest rank that the system allow you to).


youll notice standard doing it too at lower levels before you actualy get gear beyond your tool.

alot of young crafters dont have the gear to really synth beyond the tool though and thats where they are seeing the struggling
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#7 Nov 24 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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HTTP://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=f3481ce5f7787bea23c4677452f271d7a0a84d5f

There's the Ask the Devs where they talk about the aether sparking. It's supposed to be a strain on the materials, so working a recipe higher than you are able to do with tools that aren't that strong may result in this.
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#8 Nov 24 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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First upgrade your tool, next get crafting gear, any gear with +Craftsmanship, +Mag. Craftsmanship, and Control. Make sure and look up the rank level of the synth, never attempt any synth that is 2 ranks or higher than your current rank.

Now I have worked out a system that's lead me to a 1/3 HQ rate.

Simple rules to remember:

1. Durability will always determine which synth you choose i.e. Standard, Rapid, or Bold. This is priority one in any synth you do, pay attention to it ALWAYS. You hit 0 you WILL fail, nuff said?

2. Color of the Orb, White = most stable success is at its best with this. Flashing generally hitting standard during this will stabilize the synth with a color, you can use Bold and Rapid but both these have a bigger risk for failing than standard. Yellow seems to have a 50/50 success rate in any choice you choose, depending on what your durability is at, make your choice. Red, unless your durability is too low opt for Bold, it yields the most quality upon success.(however this is only if your pushing for HQ)

3. I go with a system based on the rank of the synth vs my current rank at the time of the synth:

-1 rank in level to 2 ranks above synth, success for these ranks is priority. DO NOT ATTEMPT to HQ! You will fail. I roll with a standard,standard, standard, rapid, repeat. Sometimes fails on these will happen, that's a given, but standard synthing will keep the synth at it's most stable, so the most logical choice is to fixate on standard, as it will eat the least amount of your durability when it fails, success of standard will still eat durability roughly 5 and will eat 10 when you fail.

3 to 4 ranks above the synth, depending on your durability, you can toss in a bold here and there, the idea behind is to raise the quality of your synth, to prepare you for HQing, standard will eat less than 10 durability when it fails and yields 20% in success as well as eating only 1-5 of your durability. Bold can still eat alot of your durability when it fails here, be sure and Bold on a white orb, nothing else.

5+ ranks, it's at this point when you can safely push for HQing, you want to achieve 100 quality, with the maximum amount of durability left for touch up. HQing is never 100%. However using standard, bold, standrard, bold will get you to 100 quality, fairly easily. It's this point standard will eat no durability when it succeeds, yields 20% success rate. Bolds failure will eat far less durability upon failure at this point too. If you get a red orb during this time this is where you want to hit Bold, this will maximize your quality, it is ok to stray from the standard, bold system, at the chance you do fail following with a standard will fix the problem.

Always keep track of your durability, anything below 45, will decrease your HQ success chances, when it's getting low, and you are above 100 quality, push standard. Durability is still a factor even when HQing, having alot of it means more Touch ups, greater chance of HQing, 100+ quality will also increase your chance for HQ success, this is the minimum I shoot for. Random HQs happen as well, and can happen at any quality level, however you can take it to the next level of HQ, by getting 100 quality and maximum durability.

NEVER hit touch up when you are at 15 or below durability, even if it results as a normal item, it's still worth gil to either the npc or a player.

4. The Wait choice, I found that is success rate is very low when compared to hitting standard, for the most part it just eats your durability. I stopped using this choice, as standards success rate in stabilizing a synth is much greater. When you run into unstable elements in a synth, you are attempting a synth that is too high for your rank, if you see this more often than not stop doing that recipe. You can still succeed, when this happens, but your durability gets eaten very quickly, so expect to fail.

3. Abilities curently I am using Masterpiece and Fullfillment, as I don't have access to all rank 10 abilities. Make sure you don't use an ability prior to the first ability you use, has faded. They do help in your synthing process, both Masterpiece and Fullfillment will last for 50% of the synth, and they don't resist. I try and use Fullfillment at the second 50% of the synth as this is where the synth gets harder. If anyone can give thier take on other abilities please add it in.

Keep in mind this is not a 100% guranteed system, because of the randomness of fails, but it has lead me to a 1 out of three HQ rate, when the patch goes through this may be subject to change as your rank will also factor in, in success rate. I'll come back and edit this when I find out by how much.

I'm not an expert on crafting, at almost 3 months into the game, no one is. I just found a system of putting durability as a priority while synthing works very well and Standard synth is the stabilizer at any level. Learning how each choice functions at the current rank I am at vs the rank of the synth, has lead me to these conclusions. If anyone has found any other tips I may have missed, speak up.





Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:20am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:24am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:37am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:40am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:48am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 10:36am by Spyrit178
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#9 Nov 24 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Spyrit, you should repost this on the forums as a crafting guide.
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#10 Nov 24 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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Well thankyou. I'm gonna wait on the feedback on it and the patch first.
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#11 Nov 24 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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There are usually three types of skill:
1. That last 3-4 actions. Fulfillment belongs to this and lasts 3 actions, 4 if it's material recipe.
2. That last 1 action. Epiphany for example. This will stack with the previous skill.
3. That takes 1 action. Harmonize, Hasty Hand etc. they will be counted as 1 action, they don't stack with anything.

HQ is totally random. Quality doesn't seem to affect the chance to get HQ, it's simply the requirement to get HQ. For example 1-100 will net you HQ1, 101-200 net you HQ1/HQ2, 201-300 net you HQ1/HQ2/HQ3 etc. There seems to be more than HQ1/2/3, I've received at least FOUR different HQ from Raw Jade: Jadite x 1, Jadite x 2, Jadite +1 x 2 and Jadite +2 x 2.
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#12 Nov 24 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
There are usually three types of skill:
1. That last 3-4 actions. Fulfillment belongs to this and lasts 3 actions, 4 if it's material recipe.
2. That last 1 action. Epiphany for example. This will stack with the previous skill.
3. That takes 1 action. Harmonize, Hasty Hand etc. they will be counted as 1 action, they don't stack with anything.

HQ is totally random. Quality doesn't seem to affect the chance to get HQ, it's simply the requirement to get HQ. For example 1-100 will net you HQ1, 101-200 net you HQ1/HQ2, 201-300 net you HQ1/HQ2/HQ3 etc. There seems to be more than HQ1/2/3, I've received at least FOUR different HQ from Raw Jade: Jadite x 1, Jadite x 2, Jadite +1 x 2 and Jadite +2 x 2.


I am guessing, that like the battling classes, the abilities become more beneficial on a synth based on the rank of the main that has that specific ability (pure speculation of course). Need to rank up more crafting classes to be 100% sure.

As far as HQ it is random, but touch up can increase your success in HQing, especially starting from 100 quality. Quality seems to be tied more to Touch up than the randomness of HQs. At least that's what I have experinced so far.

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 9:28am by Spyrit178
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#13 Nov 24 2010 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the replies everyone!

I'm going to try all of the tips you guys have posted here. I'm going to log in now and hit the wards for a few hours to try and find an upgaded hammer. One thing I didn't think to check was if the synth was to high or not. I saw lvl 10 leve and thought they were all lvl 10 lol. There's my noob moment for the day/week :)
#14 Nov 24 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
First upgrade your tool


I wish that was a lot more easier than it is. I have searched for weeks for a tools and not found them and making them myself is just out of the question when a Rank 12 tool need Rank 25+ crafting in some other craft.

I when I was Rank 10, I received a Rank 15 Local Leve... failed it completely. Not one single success with the Synthesis. Turned out to be a Rank 20 recipe. Good thing it was none of my own Mats.
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#15 Nov 24 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Thornpaw wrote:
Quote:
First upgrade your tool


I wish that was a lot more easier than it is. I have searched for weeks for a tools and not found them and making them myself is just out of the question when a Rank 12 tool need Rank 25+ crafting in some other craft.

I when I was Rank 10, I received a Rank 15 Local Leve... failed it completely. Not one single success with the Synthesis. Turned out to be a Rank 20 recipe. Good thing it was none of my own Mats.


http://ffxiv.yg.com/ Click community, bazaars, pick your server, this will check all the retainers on your server, a huge time saver.

Next check the corresponding guild. This is where crafters are at, then check repair NPCs, again lots of crafters here too.

I expect when your rank will effect your synth more, it'll change things somewhat, basically going to have to start all over to figure it out.

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 10:08am by Spyrit178
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#16 Nov 24 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:

3 to 4 ranks above the synth, depending on your durability, you can toss in a bold here and there, the idea behind is to raise the quality of your synth, to prepare you for HQing, standard will eat less than 10 durability when it fails and yields 20% in success as well as eating only 1-5 of your durability. Bold can still eat alot of your durability when it fails here, be sure and Bold on a white orb, nothing else.


Standard Synthesis can yield up to 30 durability loss depending on the recipe requirements and I've seen it produce over 20 quality for over rank synthesis.

Quote:
4. The Wait choice, I found that is success rate is very low when compared to hitting standard, for the most part it just eats your durability. I stopped using this choice, as standards success rate in stabilizing a synth is much greater. When you run into unstable elements in a synth, you are attempting a synth that is too high for your rank, if you see this more often than not stop doing that recipe. You can still succeed, when this happens, but your durability gets eaten very quickly, so expect to fail.


You can have destabilized elements on synthesis for recipes well below your rank. Success rate on the Wait command is 100%. All it does is skip a turn. This can allow you to cycle the orb state. That's what it's for.

Quote:
3. Abilities curently I am using Masterpiece and Fullfillment, as I don't have access to all rank 10 abilities. Make sure you don't use an ability prior to the first ability you use, has faded. They do help in your synthing process, both Masterpiece and Fullfillment will last for 50% of the synth, and they don't resist. I try and use Fullfillment at the second 50% of the synth as this is where the synth gets harder. If anyone can give thier take on other abilities please add it in.


Maker's Muse (BSM rank 10) and Preserve (ALC rank 10) are mainstays for anyone serious about crafting. Fulfillment is very good and one that a lot of people overlook, but I wouldn't go without the other two.
#17 Nov 24 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I have yet to see Wait succeed on destablized elements, I've seen it succeed on flashing once in awhile, but standard has a better success rate of stablizing the synth. My guess is that control effects standards ability to keep the synth stable. Ive noticed that higher my control has gotten, the more a stablizing force standard synth becomes. If you are seeing destablizing of a synth when you outrank it by alot your control might need raising. Give it a try.

As a rank 19 weaver I have:
39 craftsmanship 34 Mag Craft and 42 Control, I never see unstablized elements on synths I outrank by alot.

As far as how much quality you gain from standard, 20% success is an average between the 3+ ranks above the synth, standard on a red orb can alter it's rate, as well as your rank level. I'm am not doing a guide I am making notations of what I have observed since beta. It is next to impossible to make an end all be all guide based on randomness.

Fullfillment is my favorite bring it home ability.



Edited, Nov 24th 2010 11:52am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 11:55am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 12:05pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 12:06pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 12:37pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 12:44pm by Spyrit178
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#18 Nov 24 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Maker's Muse (BSM rank 10) and Preserve (ALC rank 10) are mainstays for anyone serious about crafting. Fulfillment is very good and one that a lot of people overlook, but I wouldn't go without the other two


^ +1. IMO everyone should rank Alc to 10 JUST for Preserve. Tender Touch (Cpr 10) is pretty useful if you are reaching on a synth and know you are going to have high dura loss.


#19 Nov 24 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Thornpaw wrote:
Quote:
First upgrade your tool


I wish that was a lot more easier than it is. I have searched for weeks for a tools and not found them and making them myself is just out of the question when a Rank 12 tool need Rank 25+ crafting in some other craft.

I when I was Rank 10, I received a Rank 15 Local Leve... failed it completely. Not one single success with the Synthesis. Turned out to be a Rank 20 recipe. Good thing it was none of my own Mats.


Quote:
http://ffxiv.yg.com/ Click community, bazaars, pick your server, this will check all the retainers on your server, a huge time saver.


Been there, not found what I was looking for once.

Quote:
Next check the corresponding guild. This is where crafters are at, then check repair NPCs, again lots of crafters here too.


Hm, not run to each Guild yet, but have found most of the Guilds in Gridania deserted, at least on my Server.

Quote:
I expect when your rank will effect your synth more, it'll change things somewhat, basically going to have to start all over to figure it out.


I know as I Rank it will get better. Just annoying that at Rank 10, they offered a Rank 15 Leve with a Rank 20 recipe... just a waste of a Leve to me.


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#20 Nov 24 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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They gave us a bare bones game to play in, seems to me the majority of the focus was making servers work well. They took alot of heat for this, but for a brand new MMO you have to admit, the servers are stable. I bought the normal version of the game the day of release, I installed patched it and was in and playing in less than twenty minutes, there is not a single MMO I played that has done that day of release.

After patches it is more than like crafting will be a little less random than it is, and additions in levequests will make life a little easier.

Checking the ranks on the quest synths should be done, unless you're just wanting free skillups.

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 12:29pm by Spyrit178
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#21 Nov 24 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
I have yet to see Wait succeed on destablized elements, I've seen it succeed on flashing once in awhile, but standard has a better success rate of stablizing the synth.


False. Wait = lose 1 durability, get 1 chance to stabilize the synth. Sometimes you have to press wait several times to stabilize an element. I will not try to use standard on an unstable orb unless I am desperate for progress - and usually only then if I have harmonize active.

It is WAY better to press wait 5 times and lose 15 durability than it is to fail a standard on an unstable element, and lose 30 durability and 15 quality.

I routinely succeed at synths well above my level that I don't have the training for by refusing to do anything but wait on flashing orbs or unstable orbs.

Another good trick is pressing wait until a skill procs, pressing the skill and then doing more "waits" since using the skill resets the durability loss on wait.

So:

wait = dura loss 1
wait = dura loss 2
wait = dura loss 3
Tender Touch
wait = dura loss 1
wait = dura loss 2

The fire element stabilizes - lost durability total: 9

regaining control of a synth = priceless

I can't emphasize enough that crafting gear is a must. Also you wouldn't think of going into battle with 1 skill on your bar when you can have two - so if you are serious about crafting - do as Aur already suggested and get AT THE VERY LEAST preserve (I lived a long time without maker's muse but it really is a godsend).

You can get preserve easily and cheaply in just a couple short days of playing. Just synth muddy water to distilled water till you get rank 10. Boring? Yes. But preserve is worth it. You can also drink the distilled water for a small boost to your magic craftsmanship skill.
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#22 Nov 24 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
I have yet to see Wait succeed on destablized elements, I've seen it succeed on flashing once in awhile, but standard has a better success rate of stablizing the synth.


False. Wait = lose 1 durability, get 1 chance to stabilize the synth. Sometimes you have to press wait several times to stabilize an element. I will not try to use standard on an unstable orb unless I am desperate for progress - and usually only then if I have harmonize active.

It is WAY better to press wait 5 times and lose 15 durability than it is to fail a standard on an unstable element, and lose 30 durability and 15 quality.

I routinely succeed at synths well above my level that I don't have the training for by refusing to do anything but wait on flashing orbs or unstable orbs.

Another good trick is pressing wait until a skill procs, pressing the skill and then doing more "waits" since using the skill resets the durability loss on wait.

So:

wait = dura loss 1
wait = dura loss 2
wait = dura loss 3
Tender Touch
wait = dura loss 1
wait = dura loss 2

The fire element stabilizes - lost durability total: 9

regaining control of a synth = priceless

I can't emphasize enough that crafting gear is a must. Also you wouldn't think of going into battle with 1 skill on your bar when you can have two - so if you are serious about crafting - do as Aur already suggested and get AT THE VERY LEAST preserve (I lived a long time without maker's muse but it really is a godsend).

You can get preserve easily and cheaply in just a couple short days of playing. Just synth muddy water to distilled water till you get rank 10. Boring? Yes. But preserve is worth it. You can also drink the distilled water for a small boost to your magic craftsmanship skill.


Wait is a chance to stabilize, depending on your control standard will stabilize the synth as well as give you progression. Time after time I have seen Wait do absolutely 0 and eat your durability, and standard stabilize the synth and give progression.

There is one thing I noticed missing from the forums a general craft chat discussion. I think the more info we collectively get based on our experinces, the more we can figure out how stats effect progression of a synth, overall success of a synth, and loose most of the randomness we are experince because we just haven't gotten those answers.

The battling classes have their theory crafters, and since SE has decided to make crafting a class, our stats come into play more than we are willing to recognize and apply. Common sense says these are classes not proffs, that means stats come into play.



Edited, Nov 24th 2010 5:06pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 5:08pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 5:19pm by Spyrit178
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#23 Nov 24 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:


Wait is a chance to stabilize, depending on your control standard will stabilize the synth as well as give you progression. Time after time I have seen Wait do absolutely 0 and eat your durability, and standard stabilize the synth and give progression.

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 5:06pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 5:08pm by Spyrit178


Wait has stabilized my synths MANY times. I've lost track of how many times I've gotten an unstable element, hit wait because it also popped on red, and then have everything immediately stabilize. It is more accurate to say that all successful actions have a chance to stabilize an unstable synth, but the chance may be better on Standard/Rapid/Bold versus Wait. Depending on the rank of the recipe attempted, it may be better to use Standard and hope for a success to stabilize the synth in some cases and Wait in other cases. Personally I just synth as normal regardless of stability unless I just got into the rank where I can finally try the recipe.



Edited, Nov 24th 2010 6:01pm by Ravashack
#24 Nov 24 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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The bottom line is you want stability in a synth, gear for control, you're less likely to find yourself needing wait to begin with. I have had absolutely no success with wait for over 3 months, I started adding control in my gear standard became my synth stabilizer.
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#25 Nov 24 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
I have yet to see Wait succeed on destablized elements, I've seen it succeed on flashing once in awhile, but standard has a better success rate of stablizing the synth. My guess is that control effects standards ability to keep the synth stable. Ive noticed that higher my control has gotten, the more a stablizing force standard synth becomes. If you are seeing destablizing of a synth when you outrank it by alot your control might need raising. Give it a try.


Wait isn't a succeed/fail ability. Wait just advances that "turn" of synthesis. It's not intended to be strictly that thing you do when you have a destabilized element. There are other strategic applications of the Wait command as well.

Quote:
As a rank 19 weaver I have:
39 craftsmanship 34 Mag Craft and 42 Control, I never see unstablized elements on synths I outrank by alot.


As a rank 30 armorer, 26 leatherworker, 24 weaver, 21 blacksmith, 20 goldsmith, 15 carpenter and 10 cook, I've got a lot of different gear sets and a lot of different stats. And I've seen elements destabilize on synths above my rank, below my rank, and at my rank. It's less likely when the recipe is well below your rank, but wait until you hit the mid 20s trying to do synths that recommend training you can't get yet.

Much kablooey.
#26 Nov 24 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Things change a lot as you advance higher in ranks. When you first started out, you can do r10 recipe at r1 and you barely see any unstable element, even if you only have a Weathered tool. Once you're r30+ you will see it a lot more. The other day I had a r47 CRP craft me a few Yarzonshell Harpoon (which you can first attempt at r31 or so, optimal around r37) and he always have Element Unstable. Not like it matters, he did a bunch of Touch Up + Bold safely. I still have Element Unstable on recipe that I do not even gain any SP, because it needs a useless training I don't have.
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#27 Nov 24 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
HTTP://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=f3481ce5f7787bea23c4677452f271d7a0a84d5f

There's the Ask the Devs where they talk about the aether sparking. It's supposed to be a strain on the materials, so working a recipe higher than you are able to do with tools that aren't that strong may result in this.


Nope that is NOT what they are refering to. They are referring to having 700+ quality mark, when you spent a ton of time on bold, sparks will show up even after completion.
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#28 Nov 24 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
First upgrade your tool, next get crafting gear, any gear with +Craftsmanship, +Mag. Craftsmanship, and Control. Make sure and look up the rank level of the synth, never attempt any synth that is 2 ranks or higher than your current rank.

Now I have worked out a system that's lead me to a 1/3 HQ rate.

Simple rules to remember:

1. Durability will always determine which synth you choose i.e. Standard, Rapid, or Bold. This is priority one in any synth you do, pay attention to it ALWAYS. You hit 0 you WILL fail, nuff said?

2. Color of the Orb, White = most stable success is at its best with this. Flashing generally hitting standard during this will stabilize the synth with a color, you can use Bold and Rapid but both these have a bigger risk for failing than standard. Yellow seems to have a 50/50 success rate in any choice you choose, depending on what your durability is at, make your choice. Red, unless your durability is too low opt for Bold, it yields the most quality upon success.(however this is only if your pushing for HQ)

3. I go with a system based on the rank of the synth vs my current rank at the time of the synth:

-1 rank in level to 2 ranks above synth, success for these ranks is priority. DO NOT ATTEMPT to HQ! You will fail. I roll with a standard,standard, standard, rapid, repeat. Sometimes fails on these will happen, that's a given, but standard synthing will keep the synth at it's most stable, so the most logical choice is to fixate on standard, as it will eat the least amount of your durability when it fails, success of standard will still eat durability roughly 5 and will eat 10 when you fail.

3 to 4 ranks above the synth, depending on your durability, you can toss in a bold here and there, the idea behind is to raise the quality of your synth, to prepare you for HQing, standard will eat less than 10 durability when it fails and yields 20% in success as well as eating only 1-5 of your durability. Bold can still eat alot of your durability when it fails here, be sure and Bold on a white orb, nothing else.

5+ ranks, it's at this point when you can safely push for HQing, you want to achieve 100 quality, with the maximum amount of durability left for touch up. HQing is never 100%. However using standard, bold, standrard, bold will get you to 100 quality, fairly easily. It's this point standard will eat no durability when it succeeds, yields 20% success rate. Bolds failure will eat far less durability upon failure at this point too. If you get a red orb during this time this is where you want to hit Bold, this will maximize your quality, it is ok to stray from the standard, bold system, at the chance you do fail following with a standard will fix the problem.

Always keep track of your durability, anything below 45, will decrease your HQ success chances, when it's getting low, and you are above 100 quality, push standard. Durability is still a factor even when HQing, having alot of it means more Touch ups, greater chance of HQing, 100+ quality will also increase your chance for HQ success, this is the minimum I shoot for. Random HQs happen as well, and can happen at any quality level, however you can take it to the next level of HQ, by getting 100 quality and maximum durability.

NEVER hit touch up when you are at 15 or below durability, even if it results as a normal item, it's still worth gil to either the npc or a player.

4. The Wait choice, I found that is success rate is very low when compared to hitting standard, for the most part it just eats your durability. I stopped using this choice, as standards success rate in stabilizing a synth is much greater. When you run into unstable elements in a synth, you are attempting a synth that is too high for your rank, if you see this more often than not stop doing that recipe. You can still succeed, when this happens, but your durability gets eaten very quickly, so expect to fail.

3. Abilities curently I am using Masterpiece and Fullfillment, as I don't have access to all rank 10 abilities. Make sure you don't use an ability prior to the first ability you use, has faded. They do help in your synthing process, both Masterpiece and Fullfillment will last for 50% of the synth, and they don't resist. I try and use Fullfillment at the second 50% of the synth as this is where the synth gets harder. If anyone can give thier take on other abilities please add it in.

Keep in mind this is not a 100% guranteed system, because of the randomness of fails, but it has lead me to a 1 out of three HQ rate, when the patch goes through this may be subject to change as your rank will also factor in, in success rate. I'll come back and edit this when I find out by how much.

I'm not an expert on crafting, at almost 3 months into the game, no one is. I just found a system of putting durability as a priority while synthing works very well and Standard synth is the stabilizer at any level. Learning how each choice functions at the current rank I am at vs the rank of the synth, has lead me to these conclusions. If anyone has found any other tips I may have missed, speak up.





Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:20am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:24am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:37am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:40am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 8:48am by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 24th 2010 10:36am by Spyrit178


2. Some parts aren't true, colored orbs don't yield higher success but means higher chance for destabilization. Also, flashing orb yields better Quality than red when smashing on bold.

3. I agree using bold on a syn that's around your rank, IE getting 250-350 SP with bold is asking for failures. Also loss in durability on standard ranges from 0-15. 12-15 being complete failure.

4. Not true, using wait is just as good to stabilize as standard, although I usually do 1 wait only, with the exception of lightning. Although I never do 3 waits in a row, instead I do 2 waits, hit standard synthesis or use an ability and do some more waits until its gone. The exception being that you got plenty of durability left and your already right at the end.

5. Abilities last for 3 turns for items that are NOT "most effective for", otherwise they last 4-5 turns (generally 4). Abilities that says, "for your next synthesis" ie, Epiphany GS R10 stacks with other abilities whereas other ones will cancel any active ability. With Epiphany and Sublimination I hit 110 quality with 1 bold on a flashing, on very rare occassions and also being many many ranks above syn (30 ranks)
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#29 Nov 24 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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This is something that I've repeatedly noticed and have a sort of theory about regarding Quality, I call it "The Wall"...

Synth One : Recipe well within rank tolerances: Mats are all normal or maybe a +1 or two: begin with minimal Quality
Standard synth works fine, Bold synth works fine, end up with a Quality from A to B.

Synth Two : Same recipe: Mats are all +2 or +3: begin with very high quality of C to D.
Standard synth fails often, Bold synth fails consistently, end up with a Quality from C+ to D+ (but cannot reach E).

Has anyone else noticed this? Like there is a limit on the Quality you are allowed to reach that is probably somehow a factor of certain variables, and that going beyond that point drastically increases your failure rate.

My best in-game example would be with my culinarian rank 12 making pineapple juice (a really difficult synth at that rank), use two regular pineapples and I squeak by into success sometimes, I managed to drop two +3 pineapples which started me with some absurd level of quality, but nearly every synth was a failure, I think I actually in total earned more Progress from failures than from successes (luckily the higher starting durability covered this) and I succeeded ... sparking and with an unstable element, but I succeeded.

I've noticed it elsewhere in other crafts as well, push the quality of the mats too high and suffer higher failure rates from the beginning, or continually use Bold synth until you reach that same point of Quality and failures begin spiking as well.

It would be interesting to know for certain, or a way to determine the value if "The Wall" does exist, because it would mean that at least SOMETIMES a +1 may be more valuable to you than a +3.
#30 Nov 25 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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yep, I noticed it as well. I kept on hitting 750~ quality and sparks show up. Each touch up ate around 20 durability, sadly I didn't make any +3 that way. You can hit +3 with 400~ quality and 300~. You'll think that at that kind of quality you'll always HQ +1 or +2, but it ain't working. Took me 10 tries to +3 a **** iron needle using +3 nuggets.

I just wished SE made it more clear cut and less random, because for 6+ mats trying to HQ something is just insanely difficult, and will be nothing short of a miracle to HQ any of the 40+ gear when the synthesis rank is 40+
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#31 Nov 25 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen something like that too before, but I don't remember exactly where it happened--I only remember that I got it after a LOT of lucky bolds. (+40 to +70 successes, woohoo!) And all that work for a crappy generic. I don't recall getting actual SPARKS though.
#32 Nov 25 2010 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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There are variables we haven't figured out, if certain stats are boosted will effect how a synth works. Each class has certain attributes, and then there's class specific gears, and the three stats for crafters. But your right with the HQ mats makes the synth harder.

Each crafting class gets 1 physical attribute one magical one, how does altering these effect not only the overall success of synthing, but it's progress. Same for the class specific gears and three crafting stats.

Since HQ is effected by Mag. Craftsmanship see what happens when you boost the magical attribute of your class. It would be the same as if a caster added more piety for magic accuracy. Randomness is happening because we haven't reached the point of figureing out how stats, attributes, and class specific gears really effect crafting in detail.

Take for instance what we do know and add in what we don't:

We know Craftsmanship effects overall success of a synth, we don't know how it effects the success of progression of the synth.

We know Mag. Craftsmanship effects HQs, but don't we know how, does it effect the randomness, how about effecting HQs during touch ups, or when using HQ mats are used.

We know Control effects stability in a synth overall, but what about progression of the synth itself.

Can we boost the effectiveness class abilities, what stat does this?

How does the class specific stats come into play as well as class specific gears?

These are questions that need answer, because SE is sitting there tee-hee figure it out. Two many unanswered questions is leading to too much randomness. We need to apporach our classes like the battling classes approach theirs.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 6:47am by Spyrit178
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#33 Nov 25 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
We know Craftsmanship effects overall success of a synth, we don't know how it effects the success of progression of the synth.

We know Mag. Craftsmanship effects HQs, but don't we know how, does it effect the randomness, how about effecting HQs during touch ups, or when using HQ mats are used.


Please,

Quote:
Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.


Mag Craftsmanship does not affect HQ >_> nor does Craftsmanship affect rate of success 100% of the time. Some recipe will be totally dependent on Mag Craftsmanship, others will be dependent on Craftsmanship for the rate of success/progression.

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/27479-manipulation-guild-mark-ability/

Based on that example, it seems that the stat for the specific tool affect the Quality gain.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 7:53am by Khornette
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#34 Nov 25 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Since HQ is effected by Mag. Craftsmanship see what happens when you boost the magical attribute of your class. It would be the same as if a caster added more piety for magic accuracy. Randomness is happening because we haven't reached the point of figureing out how stats, attributes, and class specific gears really effect crafting in detail.


I have to go with Khornette on this one. What we know is that people who take anecdotal evidence and turn it into lists of "what we know" tend to confuse people and start myths and rumors that take months/years to undo. So what we "know" is that it's usually best to confront these people and say, "No., you're wrong."

Don't take it personally.

Main hand tools focus on Craftsmanship. Off-hand tools focus on Magic Craftsmanship. That doesn't mean you have a tool for NQ and a tool for HQ, because we know that main hand tools are good for some recipes and offhand tools are good for others. Some recipes give HQ results for HQ results with main hand tool, others give increased quantity. Seems so far that a good rule of thumb is that the tool that gives you quantity results for components is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

What we need right now are people who can post clear evidence of what we "know", and if you can't do that, please don't post lists about what we "know", because you don't know. And we don't need others who don't know continuing to not know but thinking they know because someone told them what they knew but didn't.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 9:11am by Aurelius
#35 Nov 25 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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No main tool does not focus on Craftmanship, and offhand isn't m.craft either. The only difference between them is that stat that influences em (for BSM MH = STR, OH = VIT) as well as either making HQ or HY. That is the only difference. Using your main hand means your stats are much higher making it EASIER for quality per synthesis.

Also as SE said, some items use craftmanship others m.craft. Which item uses it? i have no idea.

Note: You only see sparks if your quality goes above 640+ or so. If you try to HQ with normal materials chances are you will not hit a quality of 700, simply because you'll hit 100% progress.

PS. All those people claiming the r27 offhand tool is better than r32 for completing items don't know wtf they are talking about. The stats on the r32 is better in nearly every way, and most certainly the r42.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 12:20pm by Kazuyakun
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#36 Nov 25 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
We know Craftsmanship effects overall success of a synth, we don't know how it effects the success of progression of the synth.

We know Mag. Craftsmanship effects HQs, but don't we know how, does it effect the randomness, how about effecting HQs during touch ups, or when using HQ mats are used.


Please,

Quote:
Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.


Mag Craftsmanship does not affect HQ >_> nor does Craftsmanship affect rate of success 100% of the time. Some recipe will be totally dependent on Mag Craftsmanship, others will be dependent on Craftsmanship for the rate of success/progression.

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/27479-manipulation-guild-mark-ability/

Based on that example, it seems that the stat for the specific tool affect the Quality gain.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 7:53am by Khornette


The Magic Craftsmanship affecting HQ rate theory is partially my fault, I had a significantly easier time HQing things gunning for Magic Craftsmanship versus not having any and was one that posited that theory.

However, that link seems to indicate that Craftsmanship definitely affects quality gains. Which make sense when you compare results synthing naked and synthing with +Craftsmanship gear only.
#37 Nov 25 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Kazuyakun wrote:
No main tool does not focus on Craftmanship, and offhand isn't m.craft either.


It absolutely does. Take a look at the stats on main hand tools vs. offhand tools.

Examples (C = Craftsmanship, M = Magic Craftsmanship, CT = Control):

Iron Doming Hammer (rank 22 MH): C 40, M 36, CT 31
Iron Pliers (rank 27 OH): C 37, M 48, CT 42

Pliers are 5 ranks higher but have 3 points less to Craftsmanship and 33% higher Magic Craftsmanship. Bad example because they're different ranks, you say? Fair enough. Another example:

Weathered Doming Hammer (rank 1 MH): C 9, M 8, CT 7.
Bronze Pliers (rank 1 OH): C 7, M 9, CT 8.

See the difference? Main hand has higher Craftsmanship than Magic Craftsmanship, off-hand is the opposite.

Bad example because that's armorer gear and maybe other classes are different? Fair enough. Weaver:

Rusty Needle (rank 1 MH): C 9, M 8, CT 7. (exactly the same is armorer rank 1 MH)
Maple Spinning Wheel (rank 1 OH): C 7, M 9, C 8. (again, exactly the same as armorer rank 1 OH)

Leatherworker:

Weathered Head Knife (rank 1 MH): C 9, M 8, CT 7. (see a pattern?)
Bronze Awl (rank 1 OH): C 7, M 9, C 8. (I do...)

Quote:
The only difference between them is that stat that influences em (for BSM MH = STR, OH = VIT) as well as either making HQ or HY. That is the only difference. Using your main hand means your stats are much higher making it EASIER for quality per synthesis.


I'm talking about the stats they provide, nothing else. Big picture thinking, please.

Quote:
Also as SE said, some items use craftmanship others m.craft. Which item uses it? i have no idea.


I just told you in a post above. Take a look at which tool gives you quantity instead of +1/+2/+3 for each recipe. That's your clue.

Quote:
Note: You only see sparks if your quality goes above 640+ or so. If you try to HQ with normal materials chances are you will not hit a quality of 700, simply because you'll hit 100% progress.


Nonsense. You can see sparks from successive failures of Rapid/Bold Synthesis. I've NEVER pushed quality above 700 but I've still seen sparks. (Very rarely these days, mind you...it used to be mostly on low rank synthesis and the sparks would only appear and/or get worse on a failed bold or rapid attempt).

Quote:
PS. All those people claiming the r27 offhand tool is better than r32 for completing items don't know wtf they are talking about. The stats on the r32 is better in nearly every way, and most certainly the r42.


I haven't seen anyone say the rank 27 tool is better than the rank 32 tool. But the difference in magic craftsmanship stats for the r32 tool vs. the r27 is 1 point. 49 MC on the r32 tool, 48 on the r27. For above rank synthesis where you're aiming for a particular result, the offhand tool is still a viable choice in some cases. For at rank synthesis where you're just hoping to succeed, you always go with the tool that offers the highest stats. That's been the common recommendation now since OB.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 12:38pm by Aurelius
#38 Nov 25 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
We know Craftsmanship effects overall success of a synth, we don't know how it effects the success of progression of the synth.

We know Mag. Craftsmanship effects HQs, but don't we know how, does it effect the randomness, how about effecting HQs during touch ups, or when using HQ mats are used.


Please,

Quote:
Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.


Mag Craftsmanship does not affect HQ >_> nor does Craftsmanship affect rate of success 100% of the time. Some recipe will be totally dependent on Mag Craftsmanship, others will be dependent on Craftsmanship for the rate of success/progression.

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/27479-manipulation-guild-mark-ability/

Based on that example, it seems that the stat for the specific tool affect the Quality gain.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 7:53am by Khornette


Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Since HQ is effected by Mag. Craftsmanship see what happens when you boost the magical attribute of your class. It would be the same as if a caster added more piety for magic accuracy. Randomness is happening because we haven't reached the point of figureing out how stats, attributes, and class specific gears really effect crafting in detail.


I have to go with Khornette on this one. What we know is that people who take anecdotal evidence and turn it into lists of "what we know" tend to confuse people and start myths and rumors that take months/years to undo. So what we "know" is that it's usually best to confront these people and say, "No., you're wrong."

Don't take it personally.

Main hand tools focus on Craftsmanship. Off-hand tools focus on Magic Craftsmanship. That doesn't mean you have a tool for NQ and a tool for HQ, because we know that main hand tools are good for some recipes and offhand tools are good for others. Some recipes give HQ results for HQ results with main hand tool, others give increased quantity. Seems so far that a good rule of thumb is that the tool that gives you quantity results for components is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

What we need right now are people who can post clear evidence of what we "know", and if you can't do that, please don't post lists about what we "know", because you don't know. And we don't need others who don't know continuing to not know but thinking they know because someone told them what they knew but didn't.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 9:11am by Aurelius


The theory of Mag. Craftsmanship on HQ had been going on for quite sometimes, seems someone doesn't pay attention to the boards much. No need to be rude about things this isnt wow forums. I see only one stat shown in the example not all stats, I see no others you assume they all do the same.
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#39 Nov 25 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
The theory of Mag. Craftsmanship on HQ had been going on for quite sometimes, seems someone doesn't pay attention to the boards much. No need to be rude about things this isnt wow forums. I see only one stat shown in the example not all stats, I see no others you assume they all do the same.


I told you it wasn't personal. Don't make it so.

The "theory" of magic craftsmanship on chance to get HQ results has no basis in reality. It's contrary to what we've been told by the devs and nobody has done any kind of significant testing to indicate that it has any influence on generic HQ results at all. Whether or not you get an HQ result of any kind seems to be determined randomly, with your chances of HQ results increasing with your final Quality score. The type of result you get (greater quantity vs. +1/+2/+3) is determined by which tool you use and which tool the recipe favors.

That's what we know.

Posting theories that you support as "what we know" is not helpful.
#40 Nov 25 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
The theory of Mag. Craftsmanship on HQ had been going on for quite sometimes, seems someone doesn't pay attention to the boards much. No need to be rude about things this isnt wow forums. I see only one stat shown in the example not all stats, I see no others you assume they all do the same.


I told you it wasn't personal. Don't make it so.

The "theory" of magic craftsmanship on chance to get HQ results has no basis in reality. It's contrary to what we've been told by the devs and nobody has done any kind of significant testing to indicate that it has any influence on generic HQ results at all. Whether or not you get an HQ result of any kind seems to be determined randomly, with your chances of HQ results increasing with your final Quality score. The type of result you get (greater quantity vs. +1/+2/+3) is determined by which tool you use and which tool the recipe favors.

That's what we know.

Posting theories that you support as "what we know" is not helpful.


By your logic DEX should do the exact same thing for a Weaver, does this happen?
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#41 Nov 25 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
The theory of Mag. Craftsmanship on HQ had been going on for quite sometimes, seems someone doesn't pay attention to the boards much. No need to be rude about things this isnt wow forums. I see only one stat shown in the example not all stats, I see no others you assume they all do the same.


I told you it wasn't personal. Don't make it so.

The "theory" of magic craftsmanship on chance to get HQ results has no basis in reality. It's contrary to what we've been told by the devs and nobody has done any kind of significant testing to indicate that it has any influence on generic HQ results at all. Whether or not you get an HQ result of any kind seems to be determined randomly, with your chances of HQ results increasing with your final Quality score. The type of result you get (greater quantity vs. +1/+2/+3) is determined by which tool you use and which tool the recipe favors.

That's what we know.

Posting theories that you support as "what we know" is not helpful.


By your logic DEX should do the exact same thing for a Weaver, does this happen?


DEX should do what for a weaver compared to what? You're not making sense.
#42 Nov 25 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
The theory of Mag. Craftsmanship on HQ had been going on for quite sometimes, seems someone doesn't pay attention to the boards much. No need to be rude about things this isnt wow forums. I see only one stat shown in the example not all stats, I see no others you assume they all do the same.


I told you it wasn't personal. Don't make it so.

The "theory" of magic craftsmanship on chance to get HQ results has no basis in reality. It's contrary to what we've been told by the devs and nobody has done any kind of significant testing to indicate that it has any influence on generic HQ results at all. Whether or not you get an HQ result of any kind seems to be determined randomly, with your chances of HQ results increasing with your final Quality score. The type of result you get (greater quantity vs. +1/+2/+3) is determined by which tool you use and which tool the recipe favors.

That's what we know.

Posting theories that you support as "what we know" is not helpful.



By your logic DEX should do the exact same thing for a Weaver, does this happen?


DEX should do what for a weaver compared to what? You're not making sense.


Refering to the results of Manipulation on a Goldsmith, does DEX do the same for a weaver, since you assumed that all stats do the exact same thing for all classes, I was hoping you had solid info to back that up.
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#43 Nov 25 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Refering to the results of Manipulation on a Goldsmith, does DEX do the same for a weaver, since you assumed that all stats do the exact same thing for all classes, I was hoping you had solid info to back that up.


Where did I say that stats do the same thing for all classes?
#44 Nov 25 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Refering to the results of Manipulation on a Goldsmith, does DEX do the same for a weaver, since you assumed that all stats do the exact same thing for all classes, I was hoping you had solid info to back that up.


Where did I say that stats do the same thing for all classes?


It was Khornette, not you. We can sit here and be ******** to each other or we can get to work and find out how the mechanics of crafting really work.


Edited, Nov 25th 2010 3:40pm by Spyrit178
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#45 Nov 25 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
snip


First, I used that example because there are only 2 offhand tools in the game at the moment the r1 and r27. If you are rank 32, the only time I'd use the offhand is when I'm going for a HY and HQ. Comparing stats on MH and OH is bad because the stats are all over the place for every craft's tool. If you're going for completion which you will be 90% of the time go with mainhand because of the better stats. The statement was pointed towards those suggesting to others that making bronze chains or iron w/e with the offhand is easier when it's not true unless you are rank 27 or aiming for HY.

Secondly I was refering to the "ask the dev" about craft and m.craft that we do not know which of the two affects the item you are making, wasn't talking about what does HQ and HY.

Lastly, I've never gotten sparks on bold synthesis spam on anything unless it was over 640 quality or 600 w/e and no it wasn't because of failed bold synthesis else I would of blotched the synthesis anyways. I've gotten sparks that stayed even after synthesis was done and ate up a ton of durability.

PS. Any craft is highly influenced by your rank not the stuff you wear, but stats do help but nowhere as much as rank.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 4:15pm by Kazuyakun
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#46 Nov 25 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to interupt this debate with an ooooo shiney moment

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/101126tpicafkldue.html#ti02
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#47 Nov 25 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Refering to the results of Manipulation on a Goldsmith, does DEX do the same for a weaver, since you assumed that all stats do the exact same thing for all classes, I was hoping you had solid info to back that up.


Where did I say that stats do the same thing for all classes?


It was Khornette, not you. We can sit here and be @#%^s to each other or we can get to work and find out how the mechanics of crafting really work.


That's what I've been trying to do. And the first part of that process is eliminating those things we think we know that aren't true.

The link Khornette provided was to a discussion involving GLD synthesis with the GLD ability Manipulation where, based on their observations, the OP of that particular thread suggested that the physical stat (in this case, DEX) had a direct influence on Quality. Their observations were also that it had no influence on success rate.

So in terms of a discussion around success, we can set aside physical stats like DEX and focus on crafting-exclusive stats like Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanship, and Control.

We know (because the devs have told us) that the type of tool you select (main or off hand) will influence what type of HQ results you get (quantity or +1/+2/+3) based on the recipe. We also know that for some recipes, there is no HQ result that yields higher quantity (ie. finished gear pieces).

We know that main hand tools provide more Craftsmanship than Magic Craftsmanship. We know it's the opposite for off-hand tools.

There are four components to synthesis:

Succeeding with synthesis actions.
Increasing Progress.
Controlling the harnessed element.
Increasing Quality.

Increasing progress and quality and, to a slightly lesser extent, controlling the harnessed element rely on succeeding with synthesis actions.

What we're trying to assess is which stats (physical and crafting exclusive) impact which areas of the synthesis big picture. So when we see someone testing an ability that increases the influence of a physical stat on crafting and their result shows a clear increase to Quality gains and no observed increase to success, we get a bit closer to understanding. It's easy to observe something as straightforward as a dramatic increase to quality gains because we can see the numbers directly on our screen. It's not so easy to observe changes in rates of success because it's something you have to observe over time. The same goes with trying to determine what may or may not increase your chances to HQ.

So if we take the Manipulation/DEX example for GLD, it wouldn't take a whole lot of testing to confirm the impact of DEX on Quality for GLD, but if we were to take the discussion Khornette linked to and say that we now know DEX has no impact on success rates for GLD based on what that person said, we'd be making a mistake because we haven't seen enough testing to confirm anything. We have a hint and a hypothesis and we need to test it, but the second we assume it to be a foregone conclusion, we stop learning. And when we start accepting our foregone conclusions as fact without testing to back them up and start teaching them to others as fact, we start to breed misinformation in the community.

So right now we know what we've been told and what we can explicitly observe. If it requires any significant amount of testing, we know very little. And we will continue to know very little until rank 50 crafters start sitting down with parsers that take everything into account and do thousands upon thousands of synths and compile their findings for review, or until SE spares us the process and flat out tells us.
#48 Nov 25 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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The "Wait" command takes a while of use to figure it out. On solid colors: yellow, red & white it has a chance to increase stability (cycle through the color gamut). I simply do not use wait on those colors. I've tested solid white waits and it can cycle to the unstable "rainbow" color along with the other colors. If the wait command doesn't change color status after 3 waits... hit standard. The chances of wait are greatly reduced in the safe solid color ranges. The reason why it's better to keep standard synthing away and why I just don't use wait with those colors. As a standard success or fail will most likely push it's color.

From my testing I can roughly 95% of the time make a "rainbow" orb become white after 3 waits in a row (6 durability loss total). It's the only time I use wait now and unfortunately it is always 3 waits in a row to make it work. But of course that doesn't mean your next synth will succeed.

The same goes for unstable elements. The best chance to make it stable is to use 3 waits in a row. However your chance of succeeding is lowered and depends on what color range, as the same color principles apply as above to this.

If the element becomes chaotic your screwed. I have never been able to use wait to work. Only a fail has a chance of returning it to stable as it's a downward spiral. And the fails seem to stack which gives little chance to ever get out of it.

All in all remember "rainbow" color has stacking effects if failed (it gets more difficult to get out of this color and fails will happen more often on this color). Use 3 waits in a row to get out of it, if it changes before the 3rd great! If it doesn't after the third don't be ****** and hit standard synth and cross your fingers. Is it worth it? It's up to each individuals experience to know when to and when not to. 6 durability can easily be the line of succeeding or failing (1st wait is 1 durability, 2nd is 2 durability and 3rd is 3 durability).

Simply... "wait" is a small tool in our crafters ******** Having proper crafting tools and gear will benefit you way more. Take proper care of your tools and gear, it's a must. And research the leve item being synthed as you'll find many helpful pointers from other crafters.
#49 Nov 25 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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One thing I did spot on the patch, degree of difficulty had been changed on certain synths. So every synth has a certain level of difficulty attached to it? Well that explains why Blue cotton cloth synths seem harder than white, green, and yellow, actually any craft with blue cotton cloth seemed to give me trouble even scarves.

I tend to lean on standard alot to fix problems. I also noticed the more lower in rank you are vs the rank of the synth, the more your durability gets eaten quicker than a cheescake at a weight watchers convention, even with a successful progression attempt.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 5:07pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 5:12pm by Spyrit178
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#50 Nov 25 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Displace wrote:
If the element becomes chaotic your screwed. I have never been able to use wait to work. Only a fail has a chance of returning it to stable as it's a downward spiral. And the fails seem to stack which gives little chance to ever get out of it.


Elements don't stay chaotic. The only time I've ever seen a chaotic element warning is when you've failed an attempt on a destabilized element and it tells you it has gone chaotic right before the boom that carves off half your Quality and a large chunk of your durability. After that you're back to a stable element.

It's strategic. There's no counting this or use <x> times or any of that. It's about understanding the risk as best you can (accounting for the random factor) and deciding if you want to take the risk or skip a turn.
#51 Nov 25 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Spyrit178 wrote:
One thing I did spot on the patch, degree of difficulty had been changed on certain synths. So every synth has a certain level of difficulty attached to it?


I have believed this for a while... corresponds to my observations regarding the differences in "The Wall" for quality on different recipes of the same rank.

Regarding Crafting vs. Mag.Crafting:
Not that this is proof, just logic... and I know that logic doesn't always apply to how people do things...
Both main hand and off-hand tools have both Crafting and Mag.Crafting values.
Main hand tools cannot be equipped to the off hand, and vice versa.
If when you were crafting, selecting Main Hand made it "crafting" and selecting Off Hand mad it "mag.crafting" then the tools would NOT need both stats. The main hand tool would only need crafting and control, while the off hand would only need mag.crafting and control.
This would INDICATE (but not prove) that certain recipes benefit more from tools with higher crafting while others from tools with higher mag.crafting, but the tool/hand that you use does NOT select whether you are crafting or mag.crafting.
Therefore, assuming that one tool is stronger in crafting and the other stronger in mag.crafting, when one has determined whether the recipe is INNATELY crafting or mag.crafting then one can choose the appropriate hand/tool for the best results.
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