Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

SP in Groups is GarbageFollow

#1 Nov 25 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Sub-Default
**
588 posts
Terrible Job SE all i have to say is OMFG #@$@#$!%!@ <- isnt a swear word just random symbols FYI...

edit: Im kinda dissapointed that party play has seen weird format forced upon it. ther eis no reason so zerg anymore which leads to potentially less stressfull play as they intended. but when people dont see big numbers they get upset and do odd stuff like complain and whine (odd i know right??)

edit: Anyways now we can have safer play wher 3-4 people dont die every fight and stuff so i guess its cool. But I admit i like alot of people am shell shocked .

Discuss

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 11:30pm by cornyboob

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 1:18am by cornyboob
____________________________


Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#2namasy, Posted: Nov 25 2010 at 10:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) haha OWN........
#3 Nov 25 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ws
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#4 Nov 25 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
802 posts
Seriously Corny (>...>

You really need to brush up on thread starting and posting. Without getting sub Defaulted everytime (>...<

Some of your posts meant something cool but you ruin them yourself.
____________________________


#5 Nov 25 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
The first two posts in this thread were like the unstoppable force and the immovable object, only they were the unspeakable dumb and the incredibly stupid.

CRASH!!
#6 Nov 25 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Default
10 posts
I have to disagree they had meaning. You just have no idea on what is going on.

Personally if Square Enix did it, on purpose or accidentally, it is a sign that they are either discouraging group parties or nerfing sp in groups. The only problem with that is that parties is basically the only fun left in the game and if you take that out, well you just have to tolerate more hardship.
#7 Nov 25 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Good
**
793 posts
You're an idiot.
____________________________
I might be an onion thief, but I'm still a thief.™





#8 Nov 25 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,576 posts
what1is2up3dog wrote:
I have to disagree they had meaning. You just have no idea on what is going on.

Personally if Square Enix did it, on purpose or accidentally, it is a sign that they are either discouraging group parties or nerfing sp in groups. The only problem with that is that parties is basically the only fun left in the game and if you take that out, well you just have to tolerate more hardship.


From what I'm reading so far, they're encouraging skilled play in groups by making it so that killing faster = more SP. If SP gain was fully halved and halved again for every person you added to your party then yes, I'd say group SP would be less than potential solo SP and would require rapid attention on SE's part. But since the drop off from solo -> group isn't nearly that bad, I'd say buck up and play smart. You'll come out ahead in the end.
#9 Nov 25 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
**
793 posts
^ This is pretty well said. And since it's a statement of fact more than anything else, I'd say it's an "either get used to it, or you know your options" kind of a scenario.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 11:59pm by Onionthiefx
____________________________
I might be an onion thief, but I'm still a thief.™





#10 Nov 26 2010 at 12:05 AM Rating: Default
**
447 posts
Aurelius wrote:
what1is2up3dog wrote:
I have to disagree they had meaning. You just have no idea on what is going on.

Personally if Square Enix did it, on purpose or accidentally, it is a sign that they are either discouraging group parties or nerfing sp in groups. The only problem with that is that parties is basically the only fun left in the game and if you take that out, well you just have to tolerate more hardship.


From what I'm reading so far, they're encouraging skilled play in groups by making it so that killing faster = more SP. If SP gain was fully halved and halved again for every person you added to your party then yes, I'd say group SP would be less than potential solo SP and would require rapid attention on SE's part. But since the drop off from solo -> group isn't nearly that bad, I'd say buck up and play smart. You'll come out ahead in the end.


Do more playing & less reading :)

Here's what I'm struggling with (carrying over from other thread :P) - in order to kill faster mobs have to be weaker, which means they will give less and less SP. So, killing fast means a blue mob (and not all of them are that easy) which will net about 60-70 SP. Say you can do one every 30 secs, so two per minute. That's 120-140 SP per minute. Multiplied by 60 to net you 7.2K - 8.4k / hour. I think the norm before the patch was ~10k/hr.

If you try to up the amount per kill, you need a harder mob. Then, you likely start killing slower, so you want to add another person, but guess what happens? The mob is now blue because you increased party members.

PITA.
____________________________
FFXIV:
PL (40) CRP (32) CON (27) ALC (17) THM (15) GSM (15)


FFXI (Retired):
PLD [75] RDM [75] WAR [75] BRD [75] NIN [75] SAM [75]


#11 Nov 26 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.
____________________________




#12 Nov 26 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Default
**
588 posts
Ok so my post was lacking much information .

The subject ssaid it all tho.

This is the feel i am getting from everyone in my vent that is now grouping and soloing.

melee classes got nerfed the hardest however casters see a huge boon in SP gains which is good because i play a conjurer..



____________________________


Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#13 Nov 26 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
**
696 posts
Aurelius wrote:
what1is2up3dog wrote:
I have to disagree they had meaning. You just have no idea on what is going on.

Personally if Square Enix did it, on purpose or accidentally, it is a sign that they are either discouraging group parties or nerfing sp in groups. The only problem with that is that parties is basically the only fun left in the game and if you take that out, well you just have to tolerate more hardship.


From what I'm reading so far, they're encouraging skilled play in groups by making it so that killing faster = more SP. If SP gain was fully halved and halved again for every person you added to your party then yes, I'd say group SP would be less than potential solo SP and would require rapid attention on SE's part. But since the drop off from solo -> group isn't nearly that bad, I'd say buck up and play smart. You'll come out ahead in the end.



Have you been in a group yet? I think not.
#14 Nov 26 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
**
588 posts
They are not encouraging skilled play just smaller parties on lower rank mobs plain and simple. Its obvious after playing in a large group and having people rage quit and killing the same mobs at relativly same rate.

Aurelius wrote:
what1is2up3dog wrote:
I have to disagree they had meaning. You just have no idea on what is going on.

Personally if Square Enix did it, on purpose or accidentally, it is a sign that they are either discouraging group parties or nerfing sp in groups. The only problem with that is that parties is basically the only fun left in the game and if you take that out, well you just have to tolerate more hardship.


From what I'm reading so far, they're encouraging skilled play in groups by making it so that killing faster = more SP. If SP gain was fully halved and halved again for every person you added to your party then yes, I'd say group SP would be less than potential solo SP and would require rapid attention on SE's part. But since the drop off from solo -> group isn't nearly that bad, I'd say buck up and play smart. You'll come out ahead in the end.

____________________________


Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#15 Nov 26 2010 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
76 posts
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.
#16 Nov 26 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.


Lulz, if you take more than 10-15 seconds to kill that you're doing something wrong. LNC has been one of the top two DD classes in game, my Ferocity + Skewer II took 1/3 of the Doe Hp.
____________________________




#17 Nov 26 2010 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
22 posts
I've just finished playing in a group for the last four hours. We were trying to find a mob worth fighting. It didn't happen. We tried many different scenarios. Lemar with 5 people r30 +/- 2 and 10+ people r30 +/- 2. we also did that with black efts, grass raptors, biting yarzon, and a few others i can't think of right now. The best SP we recieved was from the grass raptors at near or around 215 sp per kill although it took us two or three minutes a kill. the quickest kill was the biting yarzon taking around 20 seconds per kill but we were only receiving near or around 60. mind you whether it was ten people or five people in the group the sp gain was the same +/- 10. after the four hours the group became exhausted looking for the right mob to fight we disbanded because it was boring and pointless to even try group play. fighting the yarzon would be alright if we didn't have to wait every four or five yarzons for new ones to spawn. which takes up to a minute for one and mor time after that.

What i find troubling is that for me the only entertaining thing in this game was ranking and leveling with my friends in a group. But i don't know anyone who is going to want to hope to level at an average of what they hope is 6k per hour(without pop waits it could be nearly double that) for 10 hours with a very efficient party of 10 people who you hope don't need repairs or run out of mp or get bored or need to do something else randomly. It's difficult to keep people in a party for more than 3-4 hours.

I agree that SE has really dropped the ball on SP. This update as a whole however was amazing. The only problem i've seen is that SP gain (the most important thing in the game imo) is messed up bad. I suggest everyone send in feedback and maybe we will see some improvement in the coming months.
____________________________


#18 Nov 26 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
76 posts
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.


Lulz, if you take more than 10-15 seconds to kill that you're doing something wrong. LNC has been one of the top two DD classes in game, my Ferocity + Skewer II took 1/3 of the Doe Hp.


I understand your point. Balance between solo and group play is something we should look further into. I just want to point out that, using exaggerated extreme case as example in comparison is not convincing.
#19 Nov 26 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
***
3,177 posts
Have you guys tried doing a Behest in a large group for SP? I heard they were increasing SP/EXP received from that. Any tests/improvements with that regard?
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#20 Nov 26 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.


Lulz, if you take more than 10-15 seconds to kill that you're doing something wrong. LNC has been one of the top two DD classes in game, my Ferocity + Skewer II took 1/3 of the Doe Hp.


I understand your point. Balance between solo and group play is something we should look further into. I just want to point out that, using exaggerated extreme case as example in comparison is not convincing.


What's exaggerated extreme about it? I can hit Salty Pteroc which is blue, which die even faster than the Doe, for 70 SP. I don't see how an example of killing blue/green mobs that is a joke to fight for faster SP gain rather than teaming up killing tougher thing is not convincing in this case. IMO the system has gone backward, basically SE is telling you to solo on blue/green mobs for optimal SP gain.

Oh and I was doing r40 Battlecraft leve with a pt of 3 (R32, R32, R27). They give slightly bit more SP per kill without Guardian Favour, and noticeably more with GF (approximately 200 SP on that Gnat with GF). Too bad there were only a few mobs to kill.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 1:45am by Khornette
____________________________




#21 Nov 26 2010 at 12:58 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Sounds like the exp bonus for parties isn't quite working.

Of course this small bug will fuel the hate fire. Unfortunate.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#22 Nov 26 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Default
**
588 posts
The EXP bonus for parties appears to be non existant in pateis you get approx 5-10 sp more then if you solod the exact same colored mob.

Some Bonus

ALSO Shell and Protect are broken they dont work at all anyone notice this?
____________________________


Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#23 Nov 26 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
KnocturnalOne wrote:
Do more playing & less reading :)


Don't be like that. I'm trying to be patient with the sniveling but if you're going to turn your angst on me, it's not going to end well.

Quote:
Here's what I'm struggling with (carrying over from other thread :P) - in order to kill faster mobs have to be weaker, which means they will give less and less SP. So, killing fast means a blue mob (and not all of them are that easy) which will net about 60-70 SP. Say you can do one every 30 secs, so two per minute. That's 120-140 SP per minute. Multiplied by 60 to net you 7.2K - 8.4k / hour. I think the norm before the patch was ~10k/hr.


Before the patch was faceroll retardation in massive groups against over-ranked mobs. One night in with the new patch while everyone's trying to figure things out and they're all up in arms because it took them more than a few hours to make the transition between broken system and new system.

Before the patch the complaints about the SP system were that you were rewarded for a dumbed down style of play (spamming basic attacks to prolong fights and increase chances for SP with each hit), inconsistent SP gain from one class/player to the next, and just generally a boring experience. Rarely would you see people complaining that progression was too slow which was good, because those few times people did whine about it, they universally failed to answer the one question that made any sense:

What is your rush? Do you really think there's going to be any real benefit to being rank 50 any time before March?

(And if you aren't going to answer that question with something that actually makes sense, just drop the complaining about how fast you're progressing, k?)

You said yourself in your testing that you fought one mob solo for 102 SP and when you added another person to the group it dropped down to ~70 SP. 30% drop for a fight that should theoretically be done twice as fast. So solo you get 100 SP and for the same amount of time fighting with a duo you'd have killed two mobs and earned 140 SP. So right there is incentive to group. You get more. IF you play smart. You can't really argue that it's going to take too long to reach the cap with a group that earns more so you might as well solo. If the goal (for whatever inexplicable reason) is to reach the cap ASAP, you go with what gives you the fastest SP, yes?
#24 Nov 26 2010 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
The EXP bonus for parties appears to be non existant in pateis


Where is "pateis"? Did they add new regions in the patch?
#25 Nov 26 2010 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
76 posts
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.


Lulz, if you take more than 10-15 seconds to kill that you're doing something wrong. LNC has been one of the top two DD classes in game, my Ferocity + Skewer II took 1/3 of the Doe Hp.


I understand your point. Balance between solo and group play is something we should look further into. I just want to point out that, using exaggerated extreme case as example in comparison is not convincing.


What's exaggerated extreme about it? I can hit Salty Pteroc which is blue, which die even faster than the Doe, for 70 SP. I don't see how an example of killing blue/green mobs that is a joke to fight for faster SP gain rather than teaming up killing tougher thing is not convincing in this case. IMO the system has gone backward, basically SE is telling you to solo on blue/green mobs for optimal SP gain.

Oh and I was doing r40 Battlecraft leve with a pt of 3 (R32, R32, R27). They give slightly bit more SP per kill without Guardian Favour, and noticeably more with GF (approximately 200 SP on that Gnat with GF). Too bad there were only a few mobs to kill.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 1:45am by Khornette


Just a small reminder, you can only do Ferocity + Skewer + 3 Light thrust MAX in 10 sec. Are you still sure you are not exaggerating?
#26 Nov 26 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
Cornyboob Funnyname Wutaii

Wow! Seems they also ninja-added servers >.>/
#27 Nov 26 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Siulang wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Killing Migrating Doe (Green) -> 92 SP for 10 seconds.
Killing Eft in party of 3 (Red) -> 160 SP for 40 seconds.
Does seem to dis-encourage partying, and that wasn't a zerg of 15 players against a mobs 40 levels higher or something.


Killing Migrating Doe (Green) in 10 seconds? I just dont buy your story.


Lulz, if you take more than 10-15 seconds to kill that you're doing something wrong. LNC has been one of the top two DD classes in game, my Ferocity + Skewer II took 1/3 of the Doe Hp.


I understand your point. Balance between solo and group play is something we should look further into. I just want to point out that, using exaggerated extreme case as example in comparison is not convincing.


What's exaggerated extreme about it? I can hit Salty Pteroc which is blue, which die even faster than the Doe, for 70 SP. I don't see how an example of killing blue/green mobs that is a joke to fight for faster SP gain rather than teaming up killing tougher thing is not convincing in this case. IMO the system has gone backward, basically SE is telling you to solo on blue/green mobs for optimal SP gain.

Oh and I was doing r40 Battlecraft leve with a pt of 3 (R32, R32, R27). They give slightly bit more SP per kill without Guardian Favour, and noticeably more with GF (approximately 200 SP on that Gnat with GF). Too bad there were only a few mobs to kill.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 1:45am by Khornette


Just a small reminder, you can only do Ferocity + Skewer + 3 Light thrust MAX in 10 sec. Are you still sure you are not exaggerating?


Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.
____________________________




#28 Nov 26 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...
#29 Nov 26 2010 at 2:36 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 3:42am by Khornette
____________________________




#30 Nov 26 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
Aurelius wrote:
The first two posts in this thread were like the unstoppable force and the immovable object, only they were the unspeakable dumb and the incredibly stupid.

CRASH!!


Aurelius, I normally rate your posts up... I almost always agree with you or see wher eyou're trying to go with something. However, I had to rate this one down. There's no reason for a personal attack (though I know there's some bad air between you two from other threads), you should be better than that.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#31 Nov 26 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
PerrinofSylph wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
The first two posts in this thread were like the unstoppable force and the immovable object, only they were the unspeakable dumb and the incredibly stupid.

CRASH!!


Aurelius, I normally rate your posts up... I almost always agree with you or see wher eyou're trying to go with something. However, I had to rate this one down. There's no reason for a personal attack (though I know there's some bad air between you two from other threads), you should be better than that.


You missed his post before he edited it.
#32 Nov 26 2010 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Khornette wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.


Ya, that's my bad. I forgot that we went from "What is...I do not...SO CONFUSED!!" to "We're all experts and now know exactly how to get the best out of the new system and it sucks" in an hour.

So much good in this patch that directly addresses so much of the ******** from the last two months and we're right back to the...*********

Truly, no pleasing some of you.
#33 Nov 26 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,120 posts
Khornette wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 3:42am by Khornette


Like I mentioned in the other thread similar to this, the new system in place is better. Never getting 0SP and faster killing(efficiency) being promoted are 2 big wins in my book. Now that's in place, it just needs some tweaking on the amounts of SP yes? A bigger discrepancy between blue to red mobs. Either that or there's some sweet spots out there to be discovered. Seems like something they can change though...
____________________________

#34 Nov 26 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.


Ya, that's my bad. I forgot that we went from "What is...I do not...SO CONFUSED!!" to "We're all experts and now know exactly how to get the best out of the new system and it sucks" in an hour.

So much good in this patch that directly addresses so much of the ******** from the last two months and we're right back to the...*********

Truly, no pleasing some of you.


Yes, and you're expert at this. There is a big decrease in term of SP/efficiency for killing hard mobs, someone has already posted some info about killing Raptor in pt now, the supposedly "hard" mobs that need "smart" fight. Oh and know what, the optimal way is now zerg with full pt on Punishing Barb on Morbol or Gobbue. Because it works now! I'm not saying that static SP is a bad thing, I'm saying that the rate they currently have is a bad thing, they try to cater to solo-er and in return they just dumb down pt with this rate.
____________________________




#35 Nov 26 2010 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Khornette wrote:
Yes, and you're expert at this. There is a big decrease in term of SP/efficiency for killing hard mobs, someone has already posted some info about killing Raptor in pt now, the supposedly "hard" mobs that need "smart" fight. Oh and know what, the optimal way is now zerg with full pt on Punishing Barb on Morbol or Gobbue. Because it works now! I'm not saying that static SP is a bad thing, I'm saying that the rate they currently have is a bad thing, they try to cater to solo-er and in return they just dumb down pt with this rate.


Too many contradictions in your post.

You can't dumb down rock-bottom stupid party mechanics. All we've been hearing about for a month is how eft parties are bottom of the barrel faceroll grind fests with no thought, no skill, no planning, no strategy, spam-one-attack/spell-repeat ordeals.

Now we've got the basis for a system that rewards a higher level of skill. I've already acknowledged that some tweaking may be in order but the magnitude of the sniveling right now is not justified by the situation. It's not the end of the world. You can still progress. So you be a grownup and post your feedback to SE in the appropriate forum and get on with your life. That's all ya need to do.
#36 Nov 26 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
43 posts
I think we have become over sensitive to the complaining. This is a valid point from both sides. However instead of us saying wow ok great patch but the new system needs tweaking, we stand here and argue over tiny points. Yes they need to tweak the system. Yes it will be better after the tweaking maybe we can even actually all have a job to do in a party (hopes). My point which i reach via the back door (lol) is lets stop arguing get positive and send this to se who WILL address it as they have proven to us in the last few months.
Thanks for your time,
Big Jer

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 7:20am by unclejer

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 7:20am by unclejer
____________________________


#37 Nov 26 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
49 posts
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am just outside Gridania in a cave incessantly spamming blues, (crystal/shard farming), and am getting 100-150SP each for what are 10-15 second fights depending on WS accuracy. I think the operative here is how quickly you can dispatch a mob while retaining the ability to do so without stopping for HP/MP. Ferocity, Bloodbath, Second Wind and a few weaponskills.
#38 Nov 26 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
Aurelius wrote:
You missed his post before he edited it.


Meh, I appologize then... sadly I cannot undo what I have done.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#39 Nov 26 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
I'd say we'll still see some tweaks yet, and even then it will take some time before people really figure out the best way to exp in groups is.

Remember we have yet to tap into the realm of skill chaining and magic bursts. Maybe fighting slightly harder mobs, while maximizing the potential of the system in place will net more exp per hour. If a mob takes slightly longer to kill, but nets more sp, yet we can reduce the time it takes to kill that harder mob using skillchains and magic bursts, then we are getting more exp per hour right?

It's all theory, I'm not a big party player, don't have the time to be, but I'd be interested in seeing how things pan out once the tweaking and player testing/optimizing processes are done.
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#40 Nov 26 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
Do any of you people complaining about the change realize that this is probably a simple oversight? It seems pretty clear that the SP bonus for being in a party just isn't working right now. It will be fixed. If you want it to be fixed faster, go post in the feedback forums about it, or on the lodestone. ******** about how SE "Took a step backwards" or "completely messed up" is just childish. SE has already made it abundantly clear that they want a balance to soloing and grouping. It is going to take them a bit of time to find that balance.

In the meantime, small groups are still fantastic SP gains. Go to an area with green-orange mobs in a group, and zerg like mad. I did a 3 man group on skeletons in Nanawa at r26. We got 200-250sp a kill and most kills took about 30-45s or so. We would kill all the pterocs in between which gave 75sp each and took 5 seconds to kill (literally). In 2 hours I made 22k rank sp. So no, grouping is not totally dead, just for the moment small groups are more efficient. I can pretty much guarantee they will adjust the SP bonus for larger groups, so just calm down and don't go all emo quite yet. ^^

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 10:10am by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#41 Nov 26 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
**
696 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.


Ya, that's my bad. I forgot that we went from "What is...I do not...SO CONFUSED!!" to "We're all experts and now know exactly how to get the best out of the new system and it sucks" in an hour.

So much good in this patch that directly addresses so much of the ******** from the last two months and we're right back to the...*********

Truly, no pleasing some of you.


Most the rest of the patch is outstanding. Simple math makes partying absolutely not worth doing right now tho. That is fine if soloing is to be greater than partying with it in a close second for ease or loot. As it stands tho you can expect that partying is dead. I think that was not what SE wanted out of it. The few classes that don't have a fast or efficient enough kill time solo will be the only ones looking to party. They will be sorely missing The DD's tho who are only getting shafted.

Let's consider that I get 150 sp max off my regualar party mobs with a minute and a half kill time. thats 300 sp in 3 minutes with AFK and g2g's ignoring mob swap times. Now let's take this to something solo. Off a yellow that takes me 7-10 seconds to kill I'll get 105ish. I can average about 2 of these every 30 seconds with a short rest every so often which is usually handled while I hunt up more mobs. Potentially as a max here I have 630 sp in the same amount of time. That would take a lot of resting for partying to become faster by any stretch. With the mob increase I have found that I can keep this up for as long as I want. They respawn faster than I can kill them all in a semi small area. I have indeed mastered partying as it is in an hour. It is bad. Maybe there's an exception here and there but Absolutely some tweaking needed.
#42 Nov 26 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
*
165 posts
For what it's worth, I was freaking *thrilled* to see blue, green, yellow, orange and red mobs cheek-by-jowl in the same area. No matter what I felt like trying for, I had CHOICES!

\o/
#43 Nov 26 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
zoltanrs wrote:
I have indeed mastered partying as it is in an hour.


Ummm...lol?
#44 Nov 26 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
76 posts
Just the optimal party/mob setup b4 patch isn't optimal anymore doesn't necessary means Party is dead.

Read the post above yours, someone just found small party resulted in good sp gain. I am sure ppl will eventually discover the new sweet spot soon.
#45 Nov 26 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
*
174 posts
zoltanrs wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Khornette wrote:

Just a reminder, you can animation cancel every single skills/actions. Are you still sure? I can time how many actions I take in 10 seconds if you want.


Pssst...stamina only recharges so fast...


So I exaggerate it, and? The way it is now, Grinding has become even brainless than before. You don't play "smart", you play "safe", mass murdering weak and pathetic mob that barely scratch you because they net optimal SP gain.

The point isn't that group up and killing fast means fast SP, the point is that killing TOUGH mobs now yield lower SP than comparing to murdering multiple weaklings in the same time, by a large degree. I don't think that encourage SMART grouping at all, and hardly seem different from zerging like before. Just a switch between player and mob role, with 15 player vs one tough but tedious mob and now it's 15 weak and no challenge mob vs 1/2/3/4/5 players.


Ya, that's my bad. I forgot that we went from "What is...I do not...SO CONFUSED!!" to "We're all experts and now know exactly how to get the best out of the new system and it sucks" in an hour.

So much good in this patch that directly addresses so much of the ******** from the last two months and we're right back to the...*********

Truly, no pleasing some of you.


Most the rest of the patch is outstanding. Simple math makes partying absolutely not worth doing right now tho. That is fine if soloing is to be greater than partying with it in a close second for ease or loot. As it stands tho you can expect that partying is dead. I think that was not what SE wanted out of it. The few classes that don't have a fast or efficient enough kill time solo will be the only ones looking to party. They will be sorely missing The DD's tho who are only getting shafted.

Let's consider that I get 150 sp max off my regualar party mobs with a minute and a half kill time. thats 300 sp in 3 minutes with AFK and g2g's ignoring mob swap times. Now let's take this to something solo. Off a yellow that takes me 7-10 seconds to kill I'll get 105ish. I can average about 2 of these every 30 seconds with a short rest every so often which is usually handled while I hunt up more mobs. Potentially as a max here I have 630 sp in the same amount of time. That would take a lot of resting for partying to become faster by any stretch. With the mob increase I have found that I can keep this up for as long as I want. They respawn faster than I can kill them all in a semi small area. I have indeed mastered partying as it is in an hour. It is bad. Maybe there's an exception here and there but Absolutely some tweaking needed.


Amen to your post brother - I feel exactly the same about partying at the moment.

For any high damage class that can solo trash mobs for more sp than partying on either eft, raptors, pieste something is clearly wrong.

Pre patch my lancer was earning 18k an hour sp. Now I can barely make 7-8k killing the same mobs. I can easily earn this solo killing trash - where is my incentive to party.

I am now soloing low level jobs and am getting the same result solo > partying.

Yes people are saying, but in a party you kill mobs quicker. It doesn;t matter per hour I make more sp solo. I have tested this in varying sized parties killing different mobs. They all gave around the 80 mark. The party made the best sp per hour killing trash blue mobs and then had to wait for the respawn.

However, solo that same character kills a rose and gets over 200 sp or a bumble beetle for over 100 sp and due to mob population increases, I can now clear an area of these for more sp than I got for partying for a similar duration.

I have now gone from being an avid party player to boycotting them and playing solo as it is more beneficial for me - such a shame as I love grinding mobs in groups
____________________________


#46 Nov 26 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
*
174 posts
Sorry double post - and not sure how to delete ;;

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 11:51am by MisterGaribaldi
____________________________


This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (17)