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11/25 Patch Response PollFollow

#52 Nov 26 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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charityneverfaileth wrote:
Hugus wrote:
REally no difference between answer 1 and 2 imo.


level of enthusiasm about the changes? :)


I was stuck between whether I should choose 1 or 2. On one hand, I am very happy with the improvements but, on the other, they really should have been implemented before release...

However, I ended up voting 1 because there's enough negativity floating about already, and maybe some +1 positivism will off-balance it.
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#53 Nov 26 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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I voted 1. S-E came through with exactly what they said they would do and made the necessary changes to the user interface.

If a reviewer were to rate the game now, I'd predict it would get 6-7 on average rather than 4-5. As others have said, the game still lacks side content to keep its players interested, but I didn't expect it from this patch. They said they want to prioritize fixing the mistakes they made, and I don't blame them. The issues of the game mechanics needed to be fixed before new content could be introduced.

But overall, I'm happy for the fix, and I plan on sticking with S-E through the next two patches. Instead of words and promises, they've shown proof that they have the potential to give us the game we were expecting. That's enough to get my dollar.

However, just from reading the option at the bottom, it seems that this game has permanently lost ~1/20 of its player base. Because if they aren't the least bit impressed by the monumental improvement S-E has shown in this update, then they might as well not be impressed no matter what they do.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 9:27pm by UltKnightGrover
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#54 Nov 26 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I chose number 4.
UI is great now, more inventory space cool, since I gather a lot of stuff.

But on the other hand, the static SP gain is a turn off for me. Probably because I kinda expected the SP gains for PT play to be cap at 500sp and solo around 200+. <----- WITHOUT Guardian Favor.

Sorry can't picture myself getting involved in leveling DoW and DoM classes more so now.
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#55 Nov 27 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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The game still has super lag. I thought they were addressing that more in this patch, but I guess they have not yet. Exchanging items does go faster and there is a sort function, which is nice. Sometimes the keyboard no longer works, and I am forced to use my mouse. I was used to going to the market wards and having the ! show up. Turns out that you have to walk to an invisible wall now for a menu to pop up so that you can go to your retainer. /huh

I will watch and wait and see if the next patch makes the game "playable".
#56 Nov 27 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Humster wrote:
I chose number 4.
UI is great now, more inventory space cool, since I gather a lot of stuff.

But on the other hand, the static SP gain is a turn off for me. Probably because I kinda expected the SP gains for PT play to be cap at 500sp and solo around 200+. <----- WITHOUT Guardian Favor.

Sorry can't picture myself getting involved in leveling DoW and DoM classes more so now.
You played FFXI, you should know that taking forever to fight a really hard mob is NOT the way that people get good exp/hour. Kill easier targets and kill them quickly. The goal of parties has changed drastically, but only because SP gain started out so warped to begin with. Now it's functioning properly: you're rewarded for being strong and killing quickly rather than being slow.
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#57 Nov 27 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
bsphil wrote:
Humster wrote:
I chose number 4.
UI is great now, more inventory space cool, since I gather a lot of stuff.

But on the other hand, the static SP gain is a turn off for me. Probably because I kinda expected the SP gains for PT play to be cap at 500sp and solo around 200+. <----- WITHOUT Guardian Favor.

Sorry can't picture myself getting involved in leveling DoW and DoM classes more so now.
You played FFXI, you should know that taking forever to fight a really hard mob is NOT the way that people get good exp/hour. Kill easier targets and kill them quickly. The goal of parties has changed drastically, but only because SP gain started out so warped to begin with. Now it's functioning properly: you're rewarded for being strong and killing quickly rather than being slow.


This is a very good point. I remember in XI when things started to really transition from the OMG 300XP/KILL OR THIS SUCKS mentality. People started realizing that long, drawn out fights left their mages low on MP and tanks approaching death far too often.

People started to realize that 3 30 second fights for 100 xp each were better than 1 90 second fight for 300. Of course in XI you had chain bonuses too... but, as it stands, quicker kills in XIV are where its now at.


Overall, I am thrilled with this update. Not only the improvements they've made, and those that we know are coming, but in that it shows that SE really is listening, finally. What I would like to see to really seal the deal?
1. Functional market ward system.
2. Real quests. Star Onion Brigade anyone?
3. More missions.
4. Goblins. Love those guys!
#58 Nov 27 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
What I would like to see to really seal the deal?
1. Functional market ward system.
2. Real quests. Star Onion Brigade anyone?
3. More missions.
4. Goblins. Love those guys!


Oh my yes, hopefully they add these things in by December and the game starts to feel like a real Final Fantasy -- a fleshed-out world, lots to do, and monster variety that contributes to a sense of personality.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#59 Nov 27 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Very happy to see these changes.

The game is far more enjoyable now. Looking forward to December.
#60 Nov 27 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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This patch is monumental IMO. It improved upon the core and fundamental problem which plagued the game at launch: the UI. Players who are evaluating the patch in terms of the lack of content are going about it the wrong way. Evaluate the patch in terms of what it was designed and announced to achieve.

Did it improve the UI? = YES
Is the game now more user-friendly? = YES
Is crafting/fighting smoother? = YES

I note also a huge improvement in graphical performance. I do not have an epic gaming rig but the graphical improvements have made my gameplay experience much, much smoother. I used to get on average 20-30 FPS in open areas, now I'm averaging at 30-40.

Not only is SE refining and tuning the UI, they are improving their server hardware, reducing lag, performance issues, and heaps more.

So for me, Option 1 on the poll, no doubt.
#61 Nov 27 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE dropped the ball with SP. They normalized gain without really improving it enough for the people who weren't happy with it to begin with. They've basically lost me now to another game where I feel I'm rewarded appropriately for my efforts.


It's pointless to judge a new system after less than a day. You can't expect the same party setup post update to get the same or better sp pre update. My advice is to form your opinions after a few weeks (or maybe a few months) once people start to work out better ways to earn sp.


No, that's not the problem. The problem is the insanely low amount of SP you get. Where we were getting 300-500 a fight, we now get 100. I was with a group earlier, people started leaving because we were spending well over a minute to kill one mob and ending up getting about 110. Then we went out and started killing things together that we would normally solo and got 40 a kill with 10 second kills, and for curiousity sake we tested it solo, and the SP didn't change.

Either something isn't working as intended, or they still haven't played their own game. I'm personally hoping for an emergency maintenance that fixes more than just the "your an <weapon> is damaged".
#62 Nov 27 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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tarutso wrote:
This patch is monumental IMO. It improved upon the core and fundamental problem which plagued the game at launch: the UI. Players who are evaluating the patch in terms of the lack of content are going about it the wrong way. Evaluate the patch in terms of what it was designed and announced to achieve.

Did it improve the UI? = YES
Is the game now more user-friendly? = YES
Is crafting/fighting smoother? = YES

I note also a huge improvement in graphical performance. I do not have an epic gaming rig but the graphical improvements have made my gameplay experience much, much smoother. I used to get on average 20-30 FPS in open areas, now I'm averaging at 30-40.

Not only is SE refining and tuning the UI, they are improving their server hardware, reducing lag, performance issues, and heaps more.

So for me, Option 1 on the poll, no doubt.
The patch itself is great, but the game overall still isn't at a point where I want to subscribe. For as big and as great as the patch is, it's still not enough. It's no secret that the devs have a lot of catchup work to do to improve the state of the game. They aren't there yet, but they're making good progress. Hopefully the content patch in December will tip things over the top in their favor, but at least for right now the game isn't nearly as painful just to use.



Edited, Nov 27th 2010 5:18pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
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gbaji wrote:
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#63 Nov 27 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
49 posts
I just ordered my copy.
Guess it speaks for itself :)
#64 Nov 27 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Playing at rank 1-20 did become a lot more enjoyable for me. As that's what matters to me the most atm (being still a lower rank player, and leveling(ranking?) many classes at once). Now all they need is to implement more transportation options, and more milestones for me to reach. It would be nice if grouping was in a bigger part at rank 10 to 20, but it is sort of a tutorial anyway so I don't expect too much. Duoing/trioing was fun and actually worked without the random skill gain.

I know higher level exping is still broken (and lower level a bit too, I guess?) but as for where I stand the patch was a vast improvement and once I get higher, I am sure they will have that part of the game fixed as well.
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#65 Nov 27 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good
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The ability to turn down the graphical settings for the BGs has made the game playable as something other than a blurry mess on my laptop, so yes, this patch did it for me.
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#66 Nov 27 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I notice frequently there are talks about "more content" in the game. While I only purchased the game today, after I figured out what the **** to do (for the most part - still learning), I thought the amount of content was great. I enjoy the levequests, and I think there is supposed to be some story to follow. What are you all referring to when you complain about the content levels? It's out of curiosity; I'd really like to know.
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#67 Nov 28 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What are you all referring to when you complain about the content levels? It's out of curiosity; I'd really like to know.


Really, it's just the lack of milestones. Why do you level up? To be able to do more leves? Are they somehow radically different from the current leves? Not really.

You will never run out of stuff to do with the current systems in place, but you don't really have a reason to do anything either. Okay, there's the storyline but it's nothing to write home about right now, aside from some cutscenes.

What I want is something to look forward to, whether it is rank 3 dragon, kazham keys or advanced jobs. Airship pass or trip to Jeuno.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#68 Nov 28 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
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these threads are what I dont understand, people saying o its great now and people actually voting 1.. you want this junk not getting fixed then say it runs great, because the second they hear that, they will go ok....well its good enough then.

plus if you look at the bugs and problems after this patch thread it sings a different story.
#69 Nov 28 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I think a lot of the people who voted 1 or 2 are either crafters or < R30.

This game is still not "release" ready by a long shot. It seems SE just can't decide what to do, the game feels like it is still in beta.

I wish one of the review sites would re-review the game. I don't think they'd change the review much.

#70 Nov 28 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I think a lot of the people who voted 1 or 2 are either crafters or < R30


For now we don't know how SPing is supposed to work for DoW/DoM. The people that experienced it in parties before the patch and after realize how big of a difference parties really are.

I look at this update and say they did great things with the UI, and the menus, and I hear more great things to come for crafting, but what about parties now? Let me give a few examples of what they need to fix for parties.

Fighting a mob when even one person from the party isn't close enough prevents you from claiming the mob, leaving you with no EXP/SP, and even a constant drain on TP because "you're not engaged".

A party can only claim one mob at a time, forcing you to fight one thing at a time. The way the system works right now, it would be most beneficial to have a large party killing multiple lower level mobs.

When you damage a mob that you can't claim, be it through already having one claimed or AoE attacks, you damage it, therefore lowering the SP it gives once you can claim it and kill it.

SP gain is much too low. Where some people were used to getting 300-500 SP on a single mob, they now fight it for 100-150 and feel it's just not worth it anymore.

Quote:
You played FFXI, you should know that taking forever to fight a really hard mob is NOT the way that people get good exp/hour. Kill easier targets and kill them quickly. The goal of parties has changed drastically, but only because SP gain started out so warped to begin with. Now it's functioning properly: you're rewarded for being strong and killing quickly rather than being slow.


This isn't a fair comparison. As soon as we started playing FFXIV we realized the numbers TNR and TNL were much bigger than FFXI, but that we were also recieving bigger numbers than we would have in FFXI. The same also goes for gil, the rewards were much higher, and the gil was easier to get. The TNR of FFXIV may start close to the TNL of FFXI, but the quick jump in TNR was already changing the ratio vastly when we could still recieve 500 a fight. Now I'm getting 100-150 with 16,000 TNR at R20, instead of an average(200 because of chaining?) that I would be getting as a level 20 in FFXI needing only 4600 to level up.
#71 Nov 28 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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ironmonk25 wrote:
these threads are what I dont understand, people saying o its great now and people actually voting 1.. you want this junk not getting fixed then say it runs great, because the second they hear that, they will go ok....well its good enough then.

plus if you look at the bugs and problems after this patch thread it sings a different story.


I agree that there are still problems, and that complaining gets problems fixed, but if ALL we do is complain then we're really not providing any incentive to fix the problems, we're just giving them leave to say "Fine, **** it. **** you. **** this."

The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but a wobbly broken wheel gets thrown away. Say thanks to them when they make the game better and complain about the things that need improvement.
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#72 Nov 28 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Oinari wrote:
The TNR of FFXIV may start close to the TNL of FFXI, but the quick jump in TNR was already changing the ratio vastly when we could still recieve 500 a fight. Now I'm getting 100-150 with 16,000 TNR at R20, instead of an average(200 because of chaining?) that I would be getting as a level 20 in FFXI needing only 4600 to level up.
You're not accounting for the time to kill a mob. I can't say one way or the other for now because I'm still only rank 14 because the game is boring, but 500 SP per fight doesn't say how long it took to get hat much SP out of a single mob. Exp/hour is more important than exp/kill.

It's still possible that the old method returned better exp/hour, but for now you're arguing solely based on exp/kill which is not the correct way to look at leveling.

Edited, Nov 28th 2010 12:48pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#73 Nov 28 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
You're not accounting for the time to kill a mob. I can't say one way or the other for now because I'm still only rank 14 because the game is boring, but 500 SP per fight doesn't say how long it took to get hat much SP out of a single mob. Exp/hour is more important than exp/kill.

It's still possible that the old method returned better exp/hour, but for now you're arguing solely based on exp/kill which is not the correct way to look at leveling.


You're right to a point. I still need more experience partying. I can give you an example from a party I had yesterday though.

It was a small 5 man party(CON,THM,GLA,LNC,ARC). We tried killing crabs, which is just a bad way to go. You lose SP/hour when they crawl into their shells and your melee damage drops to 0. So we tried doing ants in Copperbell Mines. Fights were taking over 45 seconds(using obsess on GLA) to get 110 SP. It was probably a minute per fight. We decided it just wasn't worth the time. The ARC left, and the 4 remaining decided to go fight just outside the entrance to Copperbell Mines. This was decided because on the way in, we had aggro from a yarzon. 15 second fight netted us 60 SP. Also outside were insect swarms(40-42 SP for 10 second fights), and the rare Plains Footpad(80 SP for 20 second fights). Soon after the LNC left, disgusted that this was better SP. I said that we should test to see if there is actually a difference in SP from soloing these or in a group. The 26CON(highest rank in our party) left, killed a swarm and said 48.

Now I know that's not enough to be considered a proper test, or even a test at all, but it's enough to want me to gathering a large group of people and try killing something that I could solo. My plan is to get 10+ people and head to puks in Nanawa Mines. I went there before patch, and averaged at least 100SP/kill on the puks as 22THM, and they were fast kills in large amounts. I feel that if they left the mob concentration the same, we might still see decent SP there.

But when I see a group of people getting the close to the same SP they would get killing a mob solo, and when I solo a red mob to get the same SP that I would have gotten in a party, you can imagine that I would wonder if this is in fact "working as intended".
#74 Nov 28 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm happy with it overall, and it really did make my playing more enjoyable. Three biggest causes for that are reduced lag, changes to SP gain and reduced teleport costs.
Some new bugs surfaced (guildleves not registering properly after picking them, having to switch active/passive mode due to actions getting locked etc.) but there's workarounds for those till they get fixed.
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