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Did SE remove the ability to see realm population?Follow

#1 Nov 26 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont see it under the party tab.
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#2 Nov 26 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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yes sir, was in the update notes.
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#3 Nov 26 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Simool wrote:
yes sir, was in the update notes.


**** that seems like a poor idea from a customer stand point but I guess it will hide the population decrease which is semi positive for the company I guess.
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#4 Nov 26 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Like an ostrich burying its head in the sand....


SE thinks that if others dont see the population decline then it isn't happening.


'Regain trust' by hiding information. *sigh*
#5 Nov 26 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Skyfaller wrote:
Like an ostrich burying its head in the sand....


SE thinks that if others dont see the population decline then it isn't happening.


'Regain trust' by hiding information. *sigh*


Actually, for the masses, I bet it'll work
#6 Nov 26 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Thought that was just to show the amount of parties and not represent the amount of players on a realm.
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#7 Nov 26 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Zalim the Charming wrote:
Thought that was just to show the amount of parties and not represent the amount of players on a realm.


It used to actually show the entire realm population also.
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#8 Nov 26 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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My impression was that SE wanted to hide server population info to promote even distribution of players to each server.
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#9 Nov 26 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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Square always half *** things, even when hiding their shame. Can't you still count the population with sea all a, b, c etc?
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#10 Nov 26 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Man you guys are cynical, lol
#11 Nov 26 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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DoctorMog wrote:
Man you guys are cynical, lol


How are people cynical. What is improved by not having that visible? Why else would they not want players easily knowing how many people are on the servers.
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#12 Nov 26 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Cuss the server distribution, environment and players changed. We aren't now on one server but distributed through couple of different ones, that isn't only for players, but NPC's and other things as well. Some people didn't notice it but you surely noticed loading speed and behavior of some other things. With a system like that it's hard for that chibi counter counting only from one server how much peeps/parties are online now. Structure and behavior of this game changed around. Old systems won't work in some extent because of remodeled structure.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 12:46pm by EmiyaShirou
#13 Nov 26 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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EmiyaShirou wrote:
Cuss the server distribution, environment and players changed. We aren't now on one server but distributed through couple of different ones, that isn't only for players, but NPC's and other things as well. Some people didn't notice it but you surely noticed loading speed and behavior of some other things. With a system like that it's hard for that chibi counter counting only from one server how much peeps/parties are online now. Structure and behavior of this game changed around. Old systems won't work in some extent because of remodeled structure.

Edited, Nov 26th 2010 12:46pm by EmiyaShirou


As you are apparently confused about how the "added servers" work, I'll fill you in.

SE added extra servers for load distribution, yes. But it is still one "world". The world (i.e. Wutai, Besaid, etc.) has not been split into separate servers. It's called a server "cluster". Think of it as putting a board under a mattress to support heavier weight.

So the population count would still be accurate. SE removed the ability solely to hide the numbers, not because the system no longer works.
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#14Chubbyjesus, Posted: Nov 26 2010 at 7:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They are liars and con artists. Get out while you still can!
#15 Nov 26 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Perhaps the feature just didn't work properly through the clusters anymore and rather than fixing something that doesn't serve gameplay, they decided to remove it rather than show only the amount of players on your cluster?

Just a wild theory. They could also have removed it because people were using it to guess the amount of users online like people speculate. But until we learn the truth, does it really help anything to think they're doing it out of shame and not because of any other reason?
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#16 Nov 26 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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I gotta say, my theory is that they removed it because they didn't want people to see how low the population is.

I don't have a theory behind why you can't see your currency when your menu is opened anymore though.
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#17 Nov 26 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I've found this JPN player / server chart just last night on Twitter. This pretty much correspond to the player numbers on my world....

http://minus-k.com/nejitsu/loader/up82484.png

#18 Nov 26 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Technically it's still there, IF one has time, you can manually search all job class and add them up on paper...the real questions is, why do you still care at that point? I do not agree with they intent to hid the number or make it harder to figure out but it's really NOT a game breaker...not even close.
#19 Nov 26 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I was under the impression the term 'Party' was for the total number of PARTIES formed on the server, and the term 'Nearby' was for the number of formed parties in your area (i.e. La Noscea, The Black Shroud, etc.). Makes more sense to me than server population... If SE meant players I'm sure they would have used the term Players, such an obvious translation error would be silly for the final release of a game.

Looking at it from a numbers standpoint... There are currently 18 servers. I've never seen anyone mention that there are over 2000 on at one time on a server (According to the party number). Assuming there are 2000 'evening' and 'morning' players, assume 4000 players per server. That means out of the 600,000+ copies of FFXIV that sold, only 72,000 players are left playing? I find that a bit of a low retention percentage, even for the 'poor' quality people say FFXIV is.
#20 Nov 26 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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JuRo7 wrote:
only 72,000 players are left playing? I find that a bit of a low retention percentage, even for the 'poor' quality people say FFXIV is.


According to 2chan it is closer to 22 000 active players, on average. Most servers are hovering around 1,500 at peak but mostly 400-800 with 18 servers online at the moment.

All I know is that I logged in yesterday and today during American prime time. Not a single party in ranges 10-30. Kinda pointless in playing an MMO where you cant meet random new ppl and play in a group. And spamming shout is even more useless than the recruit function.
#21Imaboomer, Posted: Nov 26 2010 at 10:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) merge servers and close down the excess servers
#22 Nov 26 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
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outzaidurz wrote:
JuRo7 wrote:
only 72,000 players are left playing? I find that a bit of a low retention percentage, even for the 'poor' quality people say FFXIV is.


According to 2chan it is closer to 22 000 active players, on average. Most servers are hovering around 1,500 at peak but mostly 400-800 with 18 servers online at the moment.

All I know is that I logged in yesterday and today during American prime time. Not a single party in ranges 10-30. Kinda pointless in playing an MMO where you cant meet random new ppl and play in a group. And spamming shout is even more useless than the recruit function.


I think its a little more then 72k like 120k active based on the concurrent players online per day, but we don't know uniques, a lot of people only play a few days of the week.

But I do want to see more people Online, when I played FFXI tons back in 2005-2007, server population on Fenrir was 3-4k peak NA time, 2k at nights. I hope with Updates and PS3 launch that number will grow, if we can get as many people who are playing now and PS3 people to equal that, then a 3k~ server concurrent population would be really healthy imo.
#23 Nov 27 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing that worries me, and this is something that is out of my control and does not directly affect me but is more of an "other people" thing...

If the poplulation really is that low and doesn't go up, I think they should consider merging servers... BUT...

Merging servers this early into a game's life, for many players, might be a reason to leave. A lot of people would look at it as "The game is dying already, I'm leaving" and make it even worse. So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.
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#24 Nov 27 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.


They won't migrate players or merge servers. Even tho population is low they STILL have latency issues on individual servers according to reports. The way the game is programmed we will not likely see support for servers having 2000+ players in the near future.
#25 Nov 27 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
The thing that worries me, and this is something that is out of my control and does not directly affect me but is more of an "other people" thing...

If the poplulation really is that low and doesn't go up, I think they should consider merging servers... BUT...

Merging servers this early into a game's life, for many players, might be a reason to leave. A lot of people would look at it as "The game is dying already, I'm leaving" and make it even worse. So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.


They may have to do it anyway. Server costs are probably high, and given that they haven't received a dime since launch, I doubt it makes financial sense to keep all the excess server capacity alive.

I think at the current rate, they could safely go down to 6 servers and have a healthy population on most till ps3 launch (given current trend on the JP chart).

At this point though: Does anyone still think they can keep 18 servers at a healthy population even through PS3 launch? (IMO: Not a chance).

Re: the OP though. I think it's extremely deceptive of them to take the server population numbers off.
#26 Nov 27 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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outzaidurz wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.


They won't migrate players or merge servers. Even tho population is low they STILL have latency issues on individual servers according to reports. The way the game is programmed we will not likely see support for servers having 2000+ players in the near future.


What reports? Do you have a link?

Also how do you figure the game isn't designed for 2000+ players on concurrently? We had plenty of servers with far greater pops at launch (some at 3000+) and there was lag but it was very stable. Given the latest changes to how their handling high pop areas, I think the game is well designed to handle 2000+ players at this point.
#27 Nov 27 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Man you guys are cynical, lol


How are people cynical. What is improved by not having that visible? Why else would they not want players easily knowing how many people are on the servers.



Playing devil's advocate: It causes people to focus on whether they're enjoying their play experience rather than dwelling on whether population numbers are too low or too high. There's not a ton of practical value in letting players see real time server population, and there is some downside. IMO they are focused entirely on removing the sources of player complaints, whether that be the formerly slow and clunky UI, or "My server is dying!" complaints based on realtime server population.
#28 Nov 27 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Nutchoss wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
The thing that worries me, and this is something that is out of my control and does not directly affect me but is more of an "other people" thing...

If the poplulation really is that low and doesn't go up, I think they should consider merging servers... BUT...

Merging servers this early into a game's life, for many players, might be a reason to leave. A lot of people would look at it as "The game is dying already, I'm leaving" and make it even worse. So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.


They may have to do it anyway. Server costs are probably high, and given that they haven't received a dime since launch, I doubt it makes financial sense to keep all the excess server capacity alive.

I think at the current rate, they could safely go down to 6 servers and have a healthy population on most till ps3 launch (given current trend on the JP chart).

At this point though: Does anyone still think they can keep 18 servers at a healthy population even through PS3 launch? (IMO: Not a chance).

Re: the OP though. I think it's extremely deceptive of them to take the server population numbers off.


Obviously this thread has lost focus but, in light of it:
What server costs do you think they have? The servers are already paid for. Network administrators cover the entire server farm. GM's cover the entire server farm. They could cut back staff. But then thats SE giving up on a brand new game. If you know anything from database administration you would know that an Authentication process takes place and logs everything from sign on to sign off including time. Current population isn't something hard to display. Query the database and bam 2 seconds. The removal of this would prevent some flaming. SE definitly hears what we say but, unfortunately doesn't always listen.
#29 Nov 27 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:

What reports? Do you have a link?

Also how do you figure the game isn't designed for 2000+ players on concurrently?
'Erm.. Because in Ul'Dah if you get more than 100 people in the area near the adventurer's guild, the doors to the adventurer's guild takes 10-15 seconds to open. You've got a line of people waiting to get in / out which is why I moved to Gridania and then came back to Ul'Dah when the server population dropped off.. Now it's down to no more than 3 seconds waiting for the doors to open on peak hours of Besaid.

Granted, most of the server population on all servers should be going to Ul'Dah right about now because it's level 20 quest time for most people. I'll probably end up running back to Gridania soon, the door lag is driving me up the friggin' wall. There's just WAYY too many AFK people in the area.

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 10:33am by Sidicas
#30 Nov 27 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Nutchoss wrote:
outzaidurz wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
So I really don't think server merges should be done this early, no matter how bad it is.


They won't migrate players or merge servers. Even tho population is low they STILL have latency issues on individual servers according to reports. The way the game is programmed we will not likely see support for servers having 2000+ players in the near future.


What reports? Do you have a link?

Also how do you figure the game isn't designed for 2000+ players on concurrently? We had plenty of servers with far greater pops at launch (some at 3000+) and there was lag but it was very stable. Given the latest changes to how their handling high pop areas, I think the game is well designed to handle 2000+ players at this point.



I can provide a report. I still experience a noticeable amount of combat lag on a 30/2 connection in the Eastern U.S.
#31 Nov 27 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Sidicas wrote:
Docent42 wrote:

What reports? Do you have a link?

Also how do you figure the game isn't designed for 2000+ players on concurrently?
'Erm.. Because in Ul'Dah if you get more than 100 people in the area near the adventurer's guild, the doors to the adventurer's guild takes 10-15 seconds to open. You've got a line of people waiting to get in / out which is why I moved to Gridania and then came back to Ul'Dah when the server population dropped off.. Now it's down to no more than 3 seconds waiting for the doors to open on peak hours of Besaid.

Granted, most of the server population on all servers should be going to Ul'Dah right about now because it's level 20 quest time for most people. I'll probably end up running back to Gridania soon, the door lag is driving me up the friggin' wall. There's just WAYY too many AFK people in the area.

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 10:33am by Sidicas


Um aren't the doors always open now...
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#32 Nov 27 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Default
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I know why they removed it. So the haters who still play because they have free time with stop their ******** about server population. It is bad for the game, but I guess now they got something else to ***** about.
#33 Nov 27 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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why are people so obsessed with being able to see this number

it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the gameplay

i mean come on now people, you realize what you are complaining about at this point? its getting rediculous
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#34 Nov 27 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
Sidicas wrote:
Docent42 wrote:

What reports? Do you have a link?

Also how do you figure the game isn't designed for 2000+ players on concurrently?
'Erm.. Because in Ul'Dah if you get more than 100 people in the area near the adventurer's guild, the doors to the adventurer's guild takes 10-15 seconds to open. You've got a line of people waiting to get in / out which is why I moved to Gridania and then came back to Ul'Dah when the server population dropped off.. Now it's down to no more than 3 seconds waiting for the doors to open on peak hours of Besaid.

Granted, most of the server population on all servers should be going to Ul'Dah right about now because it's level 20 quest time for most people. I'll probably end up running back to Gridania soon, the door lag is driving me up the friggin' wall. There's just WAYY too many AFK people in the area.

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 10:33am by Sidicas


Um aren't the doors always open now...


That's not his point and you know it.
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#35 Nov 27 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Dbztrunks wrote:
SE definitly hears what we say but, unfortunately doesn't always listen.
I'd say it's more that they hear what we say but would rather do what they want anyway.
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#36 Nov 27 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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It reminds me of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Hitchers Guide. It believes that if you can't see it, it can't see you.

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#37 Nov 28 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't get the "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" attitude about FFXIV that some people have. The notion that "If we don't see the problems, ignore everyone talking about the problems, and don't talk about the problems, then the game has no problems" is terribly faulty.

Consider the following: If everyone who had anything negative to say had simply walked away and not said a word on September 22nd/30th, all of the changes the have happened since then would likely never have happened. The game is being fixed because people ARE complaining about it.

So yeah, I really don't get the logic behind knowing that the population is low and saying "Well it's a good thing that we can't see the low population, because now we can pretend it isn't"
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#38 Nov 28 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Even though I'm not happy it's gone, I find it amusing, because it reminds me of when Rimesume ******* so hard about karma that Illia just took away the ability to see karma scores at all.
#39 Nov 28 2010 at 4:19 AM Rating: Default
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I don't get the "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" attitude about FFXIV that some people have. The notion that "If we don't see the problems, ignore everyone talking about the problems, and don't talk about the problems, then the game has no problems" is terribly faulty.

Consider the following: If everyone who had anything negative to say had simply walked away and not said a word on September 22nd/30th, all of the changes the have happened since then would likely never have happened. The game is being fixed because people ARE complaining about it.

So yeah, I really don't get the logic behind knowing that the population is low and saying "Well it's a good thing that we can't see the low population, because now we can pretend it isn't"


It's more likely that the game is getting fixes because it has gotten ****** reviews and people have been leaving in droves.
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#40 Nov 28 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Even though I'm not happy it's gone, I find it amusing, because it reminds me of when Rimesume ******* so hard about karma that Illia just took away the ability to see karma scores at all.


Haha, I remember that too.

"WTF WHY AM I 3.07 WHO IS RATING ME DOWN?!?!"

Thing is, people still moan about it. It didn't make the problem go away...
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#41 Nov 28 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Party World population and nearby player counts are no longer displayed.


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=159e4a58b58fd0214620ec8d64ddd138d5ab599e

#42 Nov 28 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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Likibiki wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Even though I'm not happy it's gone, I find it amusing, because it reminds me of when Rimesume ******* so hard about karma that Illia just took away the ability to see karma scores at all.


Haha, I remember that too.

"WTF WHY AM I 3.07 WHO IS RATING ME DOWN?!?!"

Thing is, people still moan about it. It didn't make the problem go away...


Yeah, I remember that too. Of course, people still complain about it but only slightly less.

Of course the difference is that thing karma really affects is... nothing, compared to player population which affects... well, nothing too, I guess.

Still, I think hiding it is just another measure of "Ignore the problem and the problem doesn't exist" that started back when SE was telling THEIR OWN PEOPLE to ignore all the negative reviews. It wasn't until AFTER they broke down and came out and said "Hey, sorry we gave you a sh*tty game, have a couple free months and we want to regain your trust" that things started drastically improving.

It's just like cancer or hunger or rust or termites... even if it's a minor problem, the longer you ignore it, the worse it will get. You can either keep ignoring it and hope it will go away (and it won't) or you can address it before it spirals out of control.

Now ******** about low population just for the sake of ******** about low population doesn't accomplish anything. Low population doesn't actually directly affect an individual player in itself, but I can't help but feel that there's any POSITIVE benefit to removing it other than "Just to get people to stop complaining about it".

I'd say this patch was three steps forward, one step back. A bunch of improvements, and a few minor setbacks. Overall, still an improvement though. My fiancee and I are finally playing again, and you'll noticed my sig has moved from "Level 10, Rank 10 Pugilist" that it was on Friday.

EDIT: I'd bet my bottom dollar that if this patch and the next one actually DO increase the population, we'll see the ability to view players come back.

EDIT 2: Actually, come to think of it, won't it be back automatically when they add /sea? /sea all will accomplish the same thing.

Edited, Nov 28th 2010 1:01pm by Mikhalia
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