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Auto-attack and SocializingFollow

#1 Nov 27 2010 at 5:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Strange question...but give it some thought. Would the addition of auto-attack make this game somewhat more social? I find party chat to be nearly non-existent because everyone is busy spamming buttons everyone few seconds. With such a continuous demand for character control during battle, it seems like it is more difficult to be social in this game compared to XI. I even feel like LS chat pales in comparison to XI, simply due to a constant need to manage every move of my character. I used to very much enjoy farming sessions, where I could just let my character go "cruise-controll" while I chatted away with LS mates. It brought a very nice level of sociability to the game. This has been my personal experience and feeling anyway. Curious to know how others feel.

Thoughts, comments, trolls, flames?
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#2 Nov 27 2010 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems that voice chat should be worth using here.

I usually just chat between battles though.
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#3 Nov 27 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I miss auto attack for those little split second things... Oh well...

I'm assuming I'll be using vent or teamspeak at some point during the game with friends and such, it'll only be sad and lonely (and non little thing grabbing/doing) when in PUGs
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#4 Nov 27 2010 at 6:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Go to "Configuration" then click "Chat Filters". After that click one of the "Unused" buttons and then you can setup chat filters. It will add another box on your screen, but how I did it was have the new box only show me linkshell talk, /tells, and party talk. So all the battle stuff still shows up in the bottom chat box, but in the newly created box will keep the important talking separate and you can see it amongst battle.

Try it out! It works great to separate battle info from what people are saying.
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#5 Nov 27 2010 at 6:12 AM Rating: Default
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auto-attack is old now tbh, if ppl dont want to chat, then they wont write a crap its not the auto-attack fault. Example Aion, the game do have auto attack but ppl dont use it but press the button to use skill chain (because auto attack do very low dmg) and yet the chat still lively. But then, most use TS/vent nowday, if a random come to a guild/clan pt they usually give the random the TS/vent info to talk in pt, so in the end, i dont think auto-attack is a need
#6 Nov 27 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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MrStyles wrote:
Try it out! It works great to separate battle info from what people are saying.


The issue isn't not seing what people say, it's not having time to type anything during battle.
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#7 Nov 27 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is one of the reasons I have a hard time logging in. The point of an MMO is to socialize. You can't do that in the 2-3 seconds between mashing buttons.
#8 Nov 27 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
This is one of the reasons I have a hard time logging in. The point of an MMO is to socialize. You can't do that in the 2-3 seconds between mashing buttons.


I feel the same way. I get more of a social experience dealing with 12 year old angry kids playing Black Ops on my 360.
#9Siulang, Posted: Nov 27 2010 at 12:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Think in this way, if you were in real combat, you dont talk while you are swinging your axe, only in between.
#10 Nov 27 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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The "realtime action UI" lends itself to less communication during battles at first glance. However, unless you remain idle with a full stamina bar you aren't wasting attacks.

so chatting while your stamina bar is regening isn't a negative against you.

I think players (myself included) see potential for an attacks and must use it immediately, not thinking that if you forgo attacks while your stam bar is charging you can spam attack to make up for "lost potential attacks"
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#11 Nov 27 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not just the lack of auto-attack, it's the overall design that prevents chatting. Any activity in FF XIV requires constant button mashing - combat, crafting, gathering. In FF XI mages did not have auto-attack yet they had time to chat while resting MP, the fact that there was no need to cast as much helped too.
#12 Nov 27 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
I haven't yet bought the game, but just from a few threads I've read it seems that they plan on a lot of people using the vent or teamspeak or w/e. I think for events it'll be great, but who wants to be on a full vent channel the whole time they're online? That many people talking at once can get hard to understand sometimes.
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#13 Nov 27 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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well yeah this game is'nt really sociable at all, no matter if your in a party or not, try to speak to people and getting a response seem to be the norm on this game, occasionally you can a response to a shout, but seriously since i been on i interacted with only 5 ppl since beta and launch. i mean if i wanted a solo experience i go on ps3 and play a solo none mmo game.
#14 Nov 27 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Siulang wrote:
Think in this way, if you were in real combat, you dont talk while you are swinging your axe, only in between.


Yes, in between swings.

*swing* Die *swing* You *swing* Son *swing* of *swing* a *swing* Bich!
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#15 Nov 27 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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HachiLihachi wrote:
It's not just the lack of auto-attack, it's the overall design that prevents chatting. Any activity in FF XIV requires constant button mashing - combat, crafting, gathering.

That sums it up for me. It's not just battle. I don't even have time to pour a beer between crafting actions without either being penalized or pausing my pour.

The social aspect of XI was huge for me. I hope they focus on it in the near future.
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#16 Nov 27 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I haven't yet bought the game, but just from a few threads I've read it seems that they plan on a lot of people using the vent or teamspeak or w/e. I think for events it'll be great, but who wants to be on a full vent channel the whole time they're online? That many people talking at once can get hard to understand sometimes.
That and you aren't going to be joining a vent channel for a pickup party.
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#17 Nov 27 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
Its funny, we rangers from XI wanted an auto attack for years and never got it, now that we're all on the same page, bet some of you would change your opinions on it Smiley: tongue I'm finding little problem typing between attacks, but then I did it for 5+ years in XI.... but ya the game seems designed for a VoIP function, which 99% of new games have built in...
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#18 Nov 27 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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VoIP would be nice but not a solution. With VoIP you can't communicate with your party, linkshell, and tells simultaneously.

Also RNG here too^^ /wave
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#19 Nov 27 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I notice this a lot, sometimes I'll want to say something in LS and will have to stop attacking to type it or wait till after the battle is over...gets annoying sometimes.
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#20 Nov 27 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Think in this way, if you were in real combat, you don't talk while you are swinging your axe, only in between.

I don't think many people play FFXIV for an authentic representation of medieval combat. It it were "real combat" most wounds be immediately crippling and possibly lethal, but that wouldn't be fun either.

I'd like to see an option for a set portion of the stamina bar to repeat by default in combat. It wouldn't change the fight mechanics, but it would dramatically reduce the button-pressing.

Voice chat is of course an option, but I actually don't like it most of the time. There are too many random idiots online for me to really enjoy the chance to have a proper conversation with them all, and a lot of the time I prefer the less personal chat log when I'm with people I don't know well, which still allows for plenty of good conversation when you have time to type. Language barriers are also much less of an issue in the chat log, which is a meaningful consideration in a game played on international servers.

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 6:28pm by Caesura

Edited, Nov 27th 2010 6:29pm by Caesura
#21 Nov 27 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember how back in FFXI days I could go afk for a minute in between SATA WS...kinda the opposite now.
#22 Nov 27 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Default
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Two things:

1. For every one of you who wants simplified combat, there is another who wants more involvement.
2. Pressing buttons every few seconds didn't stop people from socializing in WoW. It's just that people don't feel like talking much in FFXIV right now.
#23 Nov 27 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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There are a lot of us who don't want to look like morons chatting into a headset while playing video games. I get enough grief from my wife for playing video games as it is.

Also, I swear my A button is already giving out on my xbox controller because I have to press it so frequently. I understand the flexibility... so why not make auto attack an option that can be turned on or off.
#24 Nov 27 2010 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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has anyone else noticed that the faster we attack, the faster we are attacked back?

you can still stop and type a quick message because if you dont attack, the mob's attack speed drops considerably, i noticed after i used ferocity and i had like 950 TP and i wanted to let the mob beat me to 1000 for moonrise. needless to say, i had to waste it on a normal attack before it faded
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#25 Nov 29 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Siulang wrote:
Think in this way, if you were in real combat, you dont talk while you are swinging your axe, only in between.


Maybe it's different because we use guns, but I'm always communicating while... um looking down my sights (I haven't shot anyone for the record)... But our training while firing on targets we constantly communicate, and especially in live fire we communicate the whole time because it's extremely dangerous to train with live rounds without communication.
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#26 Nov 29 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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AsashinoTsuki wrote:
has anyone else noticed that the faster we attack, the faster we are attacked back?

you can still stop and type a quick message because if you dont attack, the mob's attack speed drops considerably, i noticed after i used ferocity and i had like 950 TP and i wanted to let the mob beat me to 1000 for moonrise. needless to say, i had to waste it on a normal attack before it faded


I have noticed this.

I was low on health and my stamina was depleted and so I just waited to regain it and thankfully the mob didn't attack me, I cured myself and waited and so did the mob. It might just be a coincidence though?
#27 Nov 29 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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On the topic of voice chat... between years of ffxi and now ffxiv, I tried EVE for a few months and voice chat for the first time in a game. At at MINIMUM you required audio from a hosted vchat server. It was required to participate in any battle related stuff you might be doing with the EVE equiv of a LS. Even for regular "LS" chat, you were simply just weird if you played the game and didn't have vchat.

All the 20+ active people in the group where cool enough to not drive me too nutz. I could go an hour w/o saying a thing on voice but type whatever needed communicating. That was fine with me because I don't have much to say to you people in the game anyways. And like someone mentioned, I get enough crap from my wife about playing games nevermind talking to them too. She wants a few more years of videogame silence before a kid or two are old enough for them.

The only way I want to deal w/ voice chat in here is if it is fully integrated into the UI, Linkshell, Company and party systems. Build a new UI widget to allow spoken word identification that could be used for navigating the menu and parts of the inventory system via your voice.

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#28 Nov 29 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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I am in a small LS with about 7 players in it, and we use a dedicated ventrillo server. It is so much nicer than actually typing messages, and I can't imagine going back to chat for the majority of my communications. Mapping one of my unused mouse buttons to the voice chat makes it easy to fight and talk at the same time.
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#29 Nov 29 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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drogier wrote:
On the topic of voice chat... between years of ffxi and now ffxiv, I tried EVE for a few months and voice chat for the first time in a game. At at MINIMUM you required audio from a hosted vchat server. It was required to participate in any battle related stuff you might be doing with the EVE equiv of a LS. Even for regular "LS" chat, you were simply just weird if you played the game and didn't have vchat.


I played with a Swedish Corp, I don't speak a lick but I can kinda figure out what they typed... We made it work. Granted we weren't the most awesome Corp in the game, but people rarely messes with us when we were out in force. The US Corp I played with however required Vent because tey didn't trust the in game VC.

If XIV was PC only I'd be a strong advocate of in game VC, but it's multi system and as such we need to sacrifice a Macro or two to strategize... assuming the strategy isn't preplanned and followed. In the end it makes us better players, we have to think of every possibility pre-fight (HNM etc... in XI) and have a plan.
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#30 Nov 29 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Mithsavvy wrote:
... so why not make auto attack an option that can be turned on or off.


I totally agree with this. I mean, if we have the ability to macro several different actions at a time, why can't we have the freedom to do something similar via auto-attack. I also like that idea of it being an option.
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#31 Nov 29 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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It's not like hitting '1' over and over again for your base skill requires any strategy or tactical thinking. In fact, the majority of FFXI parties I played in required more individual strategic effort even with auto attack than any FFXIV party I've been in so far. I mash pretty much the same buttons in a FFXIV party as I do when soloing, except that it requires even less attention because the enemies die so quickly and I don't have to watch my own HPs.

I'm all for elminating needless button mashing in order to facilitate more group chatter. That was my favorite part of FFXI. RPGs are not action games - they are social adventure games. FFXIV needs to bring back the social aspect of MMOs, a component it is severely lacking in currently.

(Yay Final Fantasy Solo Adventure! Wait - don't they have like 12 of those already with full length scripted stories? How did you get those NPCs to fight with you - wait what, those are other players? How come they just the same attacks over and over again and nobody is talking? I could have sworn they were NPCs... )
#32 Nov 29 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
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I never understand these auto-attack threads.

Do you want auto attack so you can sit there and do nothing and still do damage? Okay, thats fine. Why dont you just sit there and do no damage while you wait for your stamina to regen instead of spamming abilities? It takes more then ten seconds to go back to full from empty so why not do that and type during that time?

If a game doesnt have auto attack, its usually because its designed not to need it which is the case in this scenario.

I personally enjoy that auto attack has been removed and regular attacks added because it remains more faithful to the series. There was never an auto attack in any FF game, however there was an "attack" in every FF game for every character.

Guys, this is Final Fantasy. Lol.
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#33 Nov 29 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Voice chat that only worked to your party/LS would be awesome and a welcome addition to the MMO world.
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#34 Nov 29 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think this is the first MMO where I've had to click a button so often in combat as to make socializing unwieldy.

My feeling on Auto Attack in FFXI was that it was your basic swing and was closely tied to your character stats (armor, weapon, accessory boosts, etc.) so setting up your character prior to combat was important to maximizing auto attack effectiveness. Realtime strategy came from spell casting or ws, etc. I enjoyed both RDM and PLD and I quickly found, esp. with high level RDM that timing 3 or 4 refreshes, plus haste plus quick mp rests kept me plenty busy but still allowed for some social interaction between commands. (And man, I do miss those days too.)

With FFXIV it just seems like the team at SE didn't take into account the social aspect for this game. Between the chat box ejection on any action at CE release to the short duration repeated key presses for combat/crafting players have been taught not to communicate with others, which is really too bad.

I'm personally not a fan of voice chat, there's something nice about the persistence of a chat log that I like being able to go back and see what my LS mates were chatting about while I was in a particularly busy/challenging battle. Voice can also be too easy for players to talk over each other so there tends to be less banter as opposed to text chat which can be posted at any moment without worrying about interrupting someone else. In any case, I tend to agree with the posters that say having an option to automate the basic attacks somehow would be really nice to have, and would probably help a great deal with socializing during combat.
#35 Nov 30 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Didn't see this thread before, but yesterday I posted this in another thread:

Quote:
In spite of just having said that auto-attack would help, I would vastly prefer an attack-queuing system. If we could queue up several attacks at once, gameplay would shift from:

1... 1... 1... 2... 3... 1... 1... 1...

to

1, 1, 1, 2, 3, chat... 1, 1, 1...

Of course there need to be options to cancel/interrupt your queued selections, and maybe even an option to macro an entire queue.

I suggested this is in nearly every feedback post I made on the combat during alpha/beta, fyi. Maybe they'll get around to it.
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#36 Nov 30 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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chomama wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
... so why not make auto attack an option that can be turned on or off.


I totally agree with this. I mean, if we have the ability to macro several different actions at a time, why can't we have the freedom to do something similar via auto-attack. I also like that idea of it being an option.


I suspect they might cave and eventually implement this. I played the Star Trek MMO when it was first launched and it was basically the same thing as FFXIV in terms of button mashing. Eventually they allowed players to toggle an auto attack.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 5:44pm by Jeraziah
#37 Nov 30 2010 at 6:38 AM Rating: Default
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Mithsavvy wrote:
There are a lot of us who don't want to look like morons chatting into a headset while playing video games. I get enough grief from my wife for playing video games as it is.

Also, I swear my A button is already giving out on my xbox controller because I have to press it so frequently. I understand the flexibility... so why not make auto attack an option that can be turned on or off.

Out of curiosity... how does that make you look like a moron exactly? It's not the 90s anymore lol, that is pretty common now.
#38 Nov 30 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Default
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You can use macros with "/ac attack <t>" 10 times as a substitute.
Anyways, as a DoM, I can't effectively type and fight at the same time. And auto-attack won't help me much, this is why we use voice chat.
I would really like to have gambits like in FFXII but it will probably never be implemented. This is very close to botting after all.
#39 Nov 30 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
AsashinoTsuki wrote:
has anyone else noticed that the faster we attack, the faster we are attacked back?

you can still stop and type a quick message because if you dont attack, the mob's attack speed drops considerably, i noticed after i used ferocity and i had like 950 TP and i wanted to let the mob beat me to 1000 for moonrise. needless to say, i had to waste it on a normal attack before it faded


I have noticed this.

I was low on health and my stamina was depleted and so I just waited to regain it and thankfully the mob didn't attack me, I cured myself and waited and so did the mob. It might just be a coincidence though?



I always thought this was because damage taken increases TP. It does when they hit us, anyhow. Maybe their stamina increases when they get hit, too.
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#40 Nov 30 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I hate using ts, vent, mumble, etc...

To many times I've missed hearing something and unlike the chat log I can't go back and read through. You can't run to grab a glass of water and catch up real quick because you cannot replay the voice chat like you can with the chat log.
#41 Nov 30 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Arquis001 wrote:
Out of curiosity... how does that make you look like a moron exactly? It's not the 90s anymore lol, that is pretty common now.


My wife can't stand when I game with a headset on unless it's so repeating phrases don't bug the crap out of her (as in "aknowledged", "moving out", etc... in RTS)... So unless I'm playing an RTS the headset is off (unless she's not home of course) because she said it makes her percieve I'm ignoring her more than I already am by focusing on a game.
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#42 Nov 30 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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There are a lot of us who don't want to look like morons chatting into a headset while playing video games. I get enough grief from my wife for playing video games as it is.


Amen sir!

I gave team speak a try once while the wife was watching TV. I said something like "Guys, i'm not getting any buffs tonight" to which my wife butted in and said "don't worry it's not the only thing you wont be getting tonight".... I rest my case :/
#43 Nov 30 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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M0RZA wrote:
I gave team speak a try once while the wife was watching TV. I said something like "Guys, i'm not getting any buffs tonight" to which my wife butted in and said "don't worry it's not the only thing you wont be getting tonight".... I rest my case :/


For your sake I hope you were using Push to Talk
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#44 Nov 30 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Auto-attack was honestly a deal breaker for me. Yes there were other issues but this put it over the top for me. Combat felt like work and not fun (1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,1). You have no time to talk to your party/ls. I loved FFXI because in between wskills you can chat with your LS or party mates or send a few tells or w/e. It made for a more social game.

I brought this up in one of the feed back threads in the closed beta even tho I knew it wasn't going to get changed (3 months before release are they really going to revamp the entire combat system?). I don't really enjoy voice chat and I'll do it begrudgingly. I think they partially did it to up the pace of battle but also to combat botters/dual boxers/etc...but thats just my personal opinion I have no interview snippets or anything to back it up. I hope they bring back auto attack but I'm not holding my breath.
#45 Nov 30 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly I could not care less about IG chatting. My LS does use it to chat sometimes but the vast majority of us use Mumble.

When I'm playing other multiplayer games with friends we use Vent or Mumble and that's the way I prefer it.

I highly doubt they will implement an auto-attack feature either.

As for looking stupid wearing a headphone... dude, come on... you're playing a weeaboo game running around fighting stuff. I'm secure in myself and find it funny when friends come over and I've got my headset on ************ away. That being said, when friends come over I turn the game off and get on with my social life.

Brandon
#46 Nov 30 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
my wife butted in and said "don't worry it's not the only thing you wont be getting tonight"....


Oh, my wife says the same thing, but we both know that she's addicted to the Summer Sausage.
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#47 Nov 30 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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I like the idea of a FFXIII queue type system but really fighting isn't terrible for me.

Since I fight blue and green mobs I use Pummel (a TP hoarding move) a lot, Light Strike (an evasion proc move), Jarring Strike (for when I evade), Second Wind (healing), then a mix of Concussion Blow (TP move) or Victimize (Another TP move) for finishers.

Sometimes I even open with Blindside + a TP move. All of this goes down within 10-15 seconds.

If I'm fighting harder mobs, only then does it drag out and I'll stick with Light Strike + Featherfoot and if I have to, Cure and Sacrifice until Second Wind is back up.

Suffice it to say, I don't have time for talking solo and really if I'm tanking (like I was as a Ninja) there isn't not much time for talking either.

Though, in certain cases, I think it isn't so much auto-attack that deters talking as much as it is moving from mob to mob; rather than the 'camp and pull' of FFXI. During those lulls you were able to chat. I was always busy, pulling, setting up SATA, WS or as I mentioned, tanking.
#48 Nov 30 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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I dunno if you want to chat then fish or craft. I like that battle is engaging enough that I don't have time to have a conversation in between pressing a button every minute or so. I like socializing so I rank up a lot of crafts and such. When I am battling - I am really in it. I have to say the lack of auto-attack is actually one of my favourite things about the battle system.
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#49 Nov 30 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Default
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I'm only going to repeat myself once.

There is plenty of time to chat when your stamina bar is refilling.

You do not need to use the stamina immediately and you are not losing any unless your bar gets totally full.


Get your heads out of your behinds people and open your ears.
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#50 Nov 30 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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401 posts
When PS3 comes out its gonna be funny all the people moving their computers/ps3's together into the same room just to be able to chat it up.
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#51 Nov 30 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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723 posts
tylerbee wrote:
I'm only going to repeat myself once.

There is plenty of time to chat when your stamina bar is refilling.

You do not need to use the stamina immediately and you are not losing any unless your bar gets totally full.


Get your heads out of your behinds people and open your ears.


You're right, but that in itself is a flaw with another system. The enmity system in this game is no where near as interesting as in FFXI or some other MMOs. If the enmity system caused players to have to watch what they're doing (Which would make battles more interesting), then they wouldn't be blowing through all of their stamina which in turn would allow them time to type and chat. But as it stands with the current enmity system, you can more or less spam as much as you'd like and you won't get hate.

Another flaw is that many players now blitz easy prey mobs, which really doesn't allow for chatting at all. If you're not spamming buttons, you're not killing as quickly as you could if you weren't distracted. And even if you're spamming buttons, by the time you run out of stamina and the mob is dead it's time to run off to another.

There's really never any down time while grinding. There is no setting up camp, there's no waiting for the puller to return, resting MP, etc.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 5:53pm by Jeraziah
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