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#52 Nov 29 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
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Yes, I see it is true that some people don't appreciate risk. Those people will never truly live :P


Actually, a tendency to engage in risky behavior is considered a mental health problem, considering these are the people that engage in substance abuse, risky ***, die in fights and car accidents, and take devastating financial risks.

People who don't "appreciate" risk are generally the ones who lead better-adjusted and happy lives.


Well you could just state all the types of people who are risk takers that are detrimental to society or you could talk about people like fire-fighters, rally drivers, boxers etc who all lead happy and fulfilled lives. Making rash uninformed generalisations is pretty silly. It isn't considered a mental health problem at all bud, simply another genetic trait that people may inherit.

I find it hilarious that you'd suggest with such a blanket statement that those who don't take risks lead better-adjusted and happy lives too, risks pay off with rewards if used in a constructive manner and it can indeed be an admirable trait given the right circumstances.

There is always two sides to the same coin mate.





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#53 Nov 29 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hated having to re-xp pt my SAM and BRD on XI every week or 2. Between HNM, a noob Sky ls, CoP, Dynamis and random adventures I died a lot. I could meripo any time I wanted and chain 200+... didn't mean I wanted to. I hugely disliked wasting 4+ hours a week recapping my xp. I hated leveling in general, so I long for a system that allows me to level up once then spend the rest of my time doing the fun stuff, regardless of my survival tactics.
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

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Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#54 Nov 29 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Man, I am the complete opposite. Leveling was awesome in XI.
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#55 Nov 29 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
It was partly my fault. My first 75 was THF in like 2007, which was retarded to lvl once SAM and DRG became pwners in the ToAU camps. Second was SAM, which was in hardcore bandwagon mode and made parties hard simply due to 12 SAM's seeking at any given moment... at any given level lol. BRD was just boring... I only lvled it for HNM since we had like 6 Mandau THF's and SAM wasn't much use in that arena. I fell asleep in many a bird camp.
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#56 Nov 29 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Default
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Ah right I played 2003-2005 before it got bad
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#57 Nov 29 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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For the sake of argument:

The penalty for failing your on the road driver's test in Maryland is that you have to reschedule, come back, and try again the next day. Wouldn't we have fewer ****** drivers on the road if the penalty for failing your driver's test was a little more severe? Say, you have to retake the written test every time, or you have to pay $50 each time you fail the test, for example.

Next time someone cuts you off across two lanes without signaling or slams on their brakes for no reason or leaves their blinker on for two miles... remember that there is very little penalty for failure, therefore the people who succeed are of an overall lower caliber driver.

Consider that the penalty for failing classes in school is that you have to repeat an ENTIRE YEAR of schooling, but the penalty for failing the driver's test is "Try again tomorrow", and that far more people fail their driver's test and have to retake it than fail a year in school and have to repeat a grade. The thing which requires -more- time and effort to pass is the thing that has -fewer- people fail at it.

Also, what's really the difference between repairs (which cost money) on death or loss of XP on death? It takes time to get XP and it takes time to get money, so aren't either penalty just costing you time and effort that you invested? Is there really a huge difference between making you walk 5 minutes back to your body as a ghost vs being weakened and unable to fight for 5 minutes vs making you lose 5 minutes worth of XP? In any case, you're spending time to recoup a death.

I'm not saying I prefer xp loss or prefer repair costs or prefer corpse retrieval; I really don't have a preference necessarily; I'm just saying that a penalty is a penalty is a penalty.
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#58 Nov 29 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Also, what's really the difference between repairs (which cost money) on death or loss of XP on death? It takes time to get XP and it takes time to get money, so aren't either penalty just costing you time and effort that you invested? Is there really a huge difference between making you walk 5 minutes back to your body as a ghost vs being weakened and unable to fight for 5 minutes vs making you lose 5 minutes worth of XP? In any case, you're spending time to recoup a death.


Gil is fairly easy to come by and I'd be comfortable in saying that everyone has a good amount of it right now. No one is hurting for money. SP and XP on the other hand come much more slowly. If Gil was as precious as it was in FFXI, then I could agree that a repair penalty is harsh enough on its own.

To continue on with your road analogies, in the United States you get flat ticket for speeding. In a number of European countries the penalty scales with your wealth, which makes a lot more sense. The more money you have and make, the harsher the penalty to make you feel it. As things stand with many players having comfortable amounts of money, repairs aren't really a problem.

Edited, Nov 29th 2010 10:34pm by Jeraziah
#59 Nov 29 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Jeraziah wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Also, what's really the difference between repairs (which cost money) on death or loss of XP on death? It takes time to get XP and it takes time to get money, so aren't either penalty just costing you time and effort that you invested? Is there really a huge difference between making you walk 5 minutes back to your body as a ghost vs being weakened and unable to fight for 5 minutes vs making you lose 5 minutes worth of XP? In any case, you're spending time to recoup a death.


Gil is fairly easy to come by and I'd be comfortable in saying that everyone has a good amount of it right now. No one is hurting for money. SP and XP on the other hand come much more slowly. If Gil was as precious as it was in FFXI, then I could agree that a repair penalty is harsh enough on its own.

To continue on with your road analogies, in the United States you get flat ticket for speeding. In a number of European countries the penalty scales with your wealth, which makes a lot more sense. The more money you have and make, the harsher the penalty to make you feel it. As things stand with many players having comfortable amounts of money, repairs aren't really a problem.

Edited, Nov 29th 2010 10:34pm by Jeraziah


I didn't know that about fines scaling with wealth. I actually really like that idea.

But I also agree that if everyone is swimming in money then a gil penalty is moot. Perhaps the gil penalty should scale with your overall wealth? But then people would just leave all of their money on a second character, or would leave all of their overall value in equipment and gear assets and just not hold a lot of gil onhand except when they -needed- it.
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#60 Nov 29 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
TacoTaru wrote:

I guess it follows then that walking a tightrope stretched across a 200 foot drop is no more challenging that walking one stretched 6 inches above the ground.


It would probably have to be a couple of feet above the ground to account for sag in the middle, but the process is the same. At no point in any MMO be it FFXI or anything else have I found myself in the middle of a fight thinking about XP loss. That's the whole point. It's not even in the back of my mind. I'm fully focused on what I need to be doing. Even if things are going sideways and things are looking grim, I'm thinking about failing and losing out on the potential rewards be it gear, currency, or whatever. I'm not thinking about the penalty for dying until after I'm dead, at which point in the case of FFXI all I was thinking was, "Ugh." Double nut-kick FTMFL. The threat of XP loss didn't add anything to the process. It didn't add any thrill or excitement. I wasn't even thinking about it.

But once the threat of xp loss turns into the reality of xp loss, that's when it sucks.


In the middle of an epic fight in FFXI, one would have to deal with so many issues and variables to survive and defeat the enemy that XP loss was rarely in the foreground of one's mind, but it was still there in the background somewhere, stacked with the rest. Remember all the times you were in a dungeon and your heart skipped a beat because you just noticed an IT mob 3 feet away and thought "WTF?!"? How many beats would it skip if you knew getting whacked wouldn't seriously mess up your day?

Getting penalized for dying sure sucked after the fact, but it is undeniable that the pervasive fear of that penalty made the experience more thrilling. Show me a man who denies that and I'll show you a robot. It's the same way a lot of people get thrills from roller-coasters or whatnot; the experience of rushing down a steep track isn't particularly pleasing, but the inherent fear of falling we have makes the experience thrilling. It's something humans seek. You can't deny the value of it. I don't think liking roller-coaster rides makes you a *********.

That said, I do believe the penalties in FFXI were too harsh. I just happen to also believe that having the right balance between risk an reward can make for a more remarkable experience. You balance out the involved risk with the appropriate reward and maybe you get a more memorable experience out of it. Right now, I think FFXIV is a little bit lacking in the risk department, even for a game trying to please both casual and hard core gamers (I've been both).

Cheers,
JR

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:44am by Trellmichel
#61 Nov 29 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I think one of the great things about FFXI was the way the community developed, with the exception of a few bad apples, to bond and help each other out compared to most other MMOs. I believe that the death penalty in XI was one of the reasons why the community became what it is. With such a "harsh" death penalty people were forced to play in groups to ensure safety and progress.

Now im not sure about your experience in XIV but it seems no one wants to group up with people outside of their linkshell. This could be due to the lack of a LFG function but it seems to me most people want to solo because its easier and more convenient than gathering a group up to go grind or do leves with people outside their linkshell. With such a weak death penalty the fear of death is nonexistent and just a mere inconvenience thus people trek on soloing which defeats the purpose of playing an mmo. A death penalty like XI, just not as harsh, would help build a better community in XIV and make it a better experience.
#62 Nov 29 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Trellmichel wrote:


In the middle of an epic fight in FFXI, one would have to deal with so many issues and variables to survive and defeat the enemy that XP loss was rarely in the foreground of one's mind, but it was still there in the background somewhere, stacked with the rest. Remember all the times you were in a dungeon and your heart skipped a beat because you just noticed an IT mob 3 feet away and thought "WTF?!"? How many beats would it skip if you knew getting whacked wouldn't seriously mess up your day?


You mean like taking a run from LL to Gridania and deciding to take a detour to grab that tasty mining node in central Thanalan only to have a Sandskin Peist come meandering around the corner? And then AFTER making an abrupt 180 and getting away realizing that if it had decided to snack on you you'd be back at your bind point at Camp Bloodshore?

You guys talk like there are zero consequences for death already. That's not the case. And I think that's largely the issue is that people calling for death penalties are calling for MORE than what's already in the game. There doesn't need to be more. FFXI was a hardcore MMO. FFXIV is not. Your hardcore philosophies of "fun" don't belong here.
#63 Nov 30 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We're talking about a game here. Your examples are pretty extreme.


Actually...

Quote:
Yes, I see it is true that some people don't appreciate risk. Those people will never truly live :P


...it seems like we were talking about people's ability to truly live.

Quote:
Well you could just state all the types of people who are risk takers that are detrimental to society or you could talk about people like fire-fighters, rally drivers, boxers etc who all lead happy and fulfilled lives. Making rash uninformed generalisations is pretty silly. It isn't considered a mental health problem at all bud, simply another genetic trait that people may inherit.

I find it hilarious that you'd suggest with such a blanket statement that those who don't take risks lead better-adjusted and happy lives too, risks pay off with rewards if used in a constructive manner and it can indeed be an admirable trait given the right circumstances.

There is always two sides to the same coin mate.


There's a HUGE difference between taking a calculated risk in an effort to accomplish something constructive (e.g., a career), and taking risks so that you can feel alive (or even simply feel stimulated). That IS considered a mental health problem, and before you object to my claims, you should know that I'm a mental health professional. I'm not offering my personal opinion... there are tons (for emphasis: TONS) of scholarly publications on the genetic factors of risk-taking behaviors and the suffering they cause for the individuals and their families.

Edited, Nov 29th 2010 10:21pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Nov 30 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, yeah I see what you're getting at. I wasn't talking about that extreme as you assumed I was.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:30am by tylerbee
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#65 Nov 30 2010 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
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Nothing ever broke up an exp party like a death penalty...The main reason I like not having one is because parties seem to generally stay together longer despite deaths. Mob too tough? It's cool, we'll find something else to kill. Too many times in XI I've had party members drop and log because they de-leveled, spoiling what was already a painful 2 hour shout fest just to get a party started! Bad players, good players, no-one wants to be making real progress toward a goal and then be slapped in the face because that AOE skill accidentally aggro'd that mob that's been following us all around for the last 20 mins. =/
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#66 Nov 30 2010 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
You mean like taking a run from LL to Gridania and deciding to take a detour to grab that tasty mining node in central Thanalan only to have a Sandskin Peist come meandering around the corner? And then AFTER making an abrupt 180 and getting away realizing that if it had decided to snack on you you'd be back at your bind point at Camp Bloodshore?


Not really. If you are aiming to find an example to mirror mine, I guess you agree with my point about the thrill of taking risks. However, I feel your example falls somewhat short. Case in point: if you are looking to stay safe and minimize time-sinks, you will make sure to tag each camp on the way. You'll also make sure to stay near roads and trails to avoid most of the tougher monsters. What I mean is that you almost have to deliberately look for trouble to find it in FFXIV, and even then, you can still run away from it pretty easily. Although that's not inherently a bad thing, I hope SE will also create some content to satisfy higher risk seekers. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Aurelius wrote:
You guys talk like there are zero consequences for death already. That's not the case. And I think that's largely the issue is that people calling for death penalties are calling for MORE than what's already in the game. There doesn't need to be more. FFXI was a hardcore MMO. FFXIV is not. Your hardcore philosophies of "fun" don't belong here.


Not cool. Don't put words in my mouth (or this mythical group called "you guys" you put me in). I never said that there are no consequences in FFXIV. I also never said SE should implement XP penalties for death in FFXIV. I used my FFXI example merely to convey the thrill that a certain level of risk can provoke, the appeal of that type of thrill, and my wish for that type of thrill to be more present in FFXIV. The way it should be done is perhaps for another conversation in my mind. ****, maybe SE will address it in their own way if they even care.

As for your comment about my supposed hardcore philosophies about "fun" not belonging here, I'm sorry to tell you that you don't own the patent on "fun" or philosophies for that matter. Don't you think that's a little brash, not to mention pretentious? You don't always have to come out guns-a-blazing, you know.


Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:46am by Trellmichel
#67 Nov 30 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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The penalty for failing your on the road driver's test in Maryland is that you have to reschedule, come back, and try again the next day. Wouldn't we have fewer sh*tty drivers on the road if the penalty for failing your driver's test was a little more severe? Say, you have to retake the written test every time, or you have to pay $50 each time you fail the test, for example.

Next time someone cuts you off across two lanes without signaling or slams on their brakes for no reason or leaves their blinker on for two miles... remember that there is very little penalty for failure, therefore the people who succeed are of an overall lower caliber driver.


I don't know about Maryland in particular, but honestly I would guess, "Probably not." If you have a stricter penalty for failure, all that does is encourage people to achieve the bare minimum for passing on their first try. Compare that to an MMO, and you can see how this supports my initial explanation... what WOULD make better drivers would be a harder, stricter test. However, if you only need to be "yay good" to win/pass, penalties only assure that you get "yay good" before you try. Particularly in an MMO, think of this as if you depended on a team of drivers to pass, and even one person could cause you to fail. If as a group you need to be "yay good" to win/pass, you've got a few other people to blame other than yourself if you don't. And it also means you're likely to be a lot more judgmental of the people on your team and avoid attempts that might fail.

There are also some important motivational differences between your analogies, namely that playing an MMO is supposed to be fun, while driving or passing a class is supposed to be functional (the state doesn't generally encourage "experimentation" with drivers).



Edited, Nov 29th 2010 10:37pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#68 Nov 30 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, yeah I see what you're getting at. I wasn't talking about that extreme as you assumed I was.


Well in my defense, you replied to my comment about most people not finding the penalty exhilarating with a comment that some people would never feel alive. That's the kind of mentality that graffiti artists and leisure criminals often convey.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#69 Nov 30 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Haha, yeah I understand that.

I was more thinking bungy jumping, skydiving or other extreme sports :)
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#70 Nov 30 2010 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the biggest difference from XI is the fact that, since the Nov. update, players may find it more beneficial for them to play solo instead of in a party. There could be many reasons for this, I'm sure, but it seems since the implementation of the new SP system, it's even harder to find a group of people willing to party outside their normal in-game social clique (i.e. Linkshell or Static if they have one). I think this could be one reason why some players are calling for death penalties. A cry for help, if you will. An expression of their desire to have that old feeling of "Awww Crap! I died! What's this? A random WHM casting "Raise"? (All right!)" or "Hey that guy's getting pwned by that Orcish Berserker. (Cure III)!" It's nice to know you can roam the world and, if you really need it, someone just might be nearby to lend a hand. I know that, I, for one, have had a hard time thus far finding people to grind with, as, literally, ALL of the people I had on my FL and partied with on a regular basis have stopped playing for one reason or another. Probably just bad luck on my part, but still. I think SE needs to make the SP gains in partying at LEAST as good as soloing leve's with Guardian's Aspect. Otherwise, players will continue to strive for the bare-minimum MMO experience, leaving people like me, who wish to excel in their chosen discipline in a way that helps to create an exciting, engrossing online world. Without the players, Eorzea would be nothing but lines of code, sitting silently on a dusty server somewhere, and, with all this game promises to offer, that is a very sad thought.

So, c'mon SE! Bring back the party bonuses! I want to share all of these upcoming epic NM battles with other people too! And, whether or not they decide to implement a death-penalty, as long as there's someone to at least /cry over my ko'd body, I'll be fine! ^^
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#71 Nov 30 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I actually sturugle to see how they could put an effective death penalty into the game.

If it was an sp/xp loss it can easily be circumvented with the dynamic class change system. Personally, and I am sure a lot of people also do it, death warp to get back to my home point as death is irrelevant. People did that in XI iirc as well.

If I lost SP or XP I would still death warp, only I would switch to a class i dont care for before doing it. That as you all know, is as easy as switching weapon.

Any xp penalty is kind of irrelvant, physical level and xp is ridiculosly easy to get.

My example obviously only works for planned deaths, but for me that is the main issue as its a free warp with no penalties.

Death in a PT generally happens for a reason. Fix the problem, kill mobs and get back sp/xp lost lol
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#72 Nov 30 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Default
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Trellmichel wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
You mean like taking a run from LL to Gridania and deciding to take a detour to grab that tasty mining node in central Thanalan only to have a Sandskin Peist come meandering around the corner? And then AFTER making an abrupt 180 and getting away realizing that if it had decided to snack on you you'd be back at your bind point at Camp Bloodshore?


Not really. If you are aiming to find an example to mirror mine, I guess you agree with my point about the thrill of taking risks. However, I feel your example falls somewhat short. Case in point: if you are looking to stay safe and minimize time-sinks, you will make sure to tag each camp on the way. You'll also make sure to stay near roads and trails to avoid most of the tougher monsters. What I mean is that you almost have to deliberately look for trouble to find it in FFXIV, and even then, you can still run away from it pretty easily. Although that's not inherently a bad thing, I hope SE will also create some content to satisfy higher risk seekers. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.


I'm not in the mood to argue with thick people so I'm going to tell it to you like it is and you can keep arguing all because I don't give a **** what you think.

FFXIV = marketed as casual appeal.

Period.

Done.

Get over it.

Quote:
Aurelius wrote:
You guys talk like there are zero consequences for death already. That's not the case. And I think that's largely the issue is that people calling for death penalties are calling for MORE than what's already in the game. There doesn't need to be more. FFXI was a hardcore MMO. FFXIV is not. Your hardcore philosophies of "fun" don't belong here.


Not cool. Don't put words in my mouth (or this mythical group called "you guys" you put me in). I never said that there are no consequences in FFXIV. I also never said SE should implement XP penalties for death in FFXIV. I used my FFXI example merely to convey the thrill that a certain level of risk can provoke, the appeal of that type of thrill, and my wish for that type of thrill to be more present in FFXIV. The way it should be done is perhaps for another conversation in my mind. ****, maybe SE will address it in their own way if they even care.

As for your comment about my supposed hardcore philosophies about "fun" not belonging here, I'm sorry to tell you that you don't own the patent on "fun" or philosophies for that matter. Don't you think that's a little brash, not to mention pretentious? You don't always have to come out guns-a-blazing, you know.


Only a ****** looks at a game aimed towards casual players and looks at a baseline function like what happens when you die (because it's not just risk takers who die) and thinks they've got a valid point when they just want to add and add and ADD to create this ILLUSION of risk to satisfy themselves without giving any thought whatsoever to what they're really asking for in the big picture. Devs don't have the luxury of ego-centric conceptualization. If they're smart, they're always looking at the big picture. They're looking at everything they do and asking "How does this impact our casual playerss and how does it impact our more hardcore players?"

And when the answer to the casual part is, "Very substantially and in a negative way" it doesn't belong in the game.

That's all there is to it. There's no getting around it. You can negotiate with yourself all day long about what you want and what you think and blah blah blah and it doesn't bloody matter, because the game isn't being made JUST for YOU.
#73 Nov 30 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
And when the answer to the casual part is, "Very substantially and in a negative way" it doesn't belong in the game.

That's all there is to it. There's no getting around it. You can negotiate with yourself all day long about what you want and what you think and blah blah blah and it doesn't bloody matter, because the game isn't being made JUST for YOU.


This is why I had the idea to reward living instead of punishing death. If casual players don't want to take the game too seriously they don't have to care about these bonuses and dieing won't ruin their casual experience. Hardcore players can choose to take it more seriously and it should heighten their experience. As to the point made that people won't want to help because they don't want to lose their bonus, SE could make it something you can switch on and off. If it's on and you die, you lose it. If it's deactivated and you die, you still have it waiting to be activated.

To make Raise more useful, you can have it either preserve the bonus if the target is Raised or perhaps set them back to a percentage of their progress to get the bonus rather than starting from 0.
#74 Nov 30 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
I'm not in the mood to argue with thick people so I'm going to tell it to you like it is and you can keep arguing all because I don't give a sh*t what you think.

FFXIV = marketed as casual appeal.

Period.

Done.

Get over it.

Only a ****** looks at a game aimed towards casual players and looks at a baseline function like what happens when you die (because it's not just risk takers who die) and thinks they've got a valid point when they just want to add and add and ADD to create this ILLUSION of risk to satisfy themselves without giving any thought whatsoever to what they're really asking for in the big picture. Devs don't have the luxury of ego-centric conceptualization. If they're smart, they're always looking at the big picture. They're looking at everything they do and asking "How does this impact our casual playerss and how does it impact our more hardcore players?"

And when the answer to the casual part is, "Very substantially and in a negative way" it doesn't belong in the game.

That's all there is to it. There's no getting around it. You can negotiate with yourself all day long about what you want and what you think and blah blah blah and it doesn't bloody matter, because the game isn't being made JUST for YOU.


You're not in the mood to argue? All you do is throw tantrums and get all worked up over the internet while “laying the law” and telling others to get over things. You also don’t give a sh*t what I think and proceed to reply to my statements... to tell me that you don’t care... Come on man, you’re the one arguing here while this is just a discussion to me.

So FFXIV is geared towards casual players? Do you seriously think I don’t know that? None of my statements refute that. FFXI is geared towards hardcore players, but SE still made efforts through the years to cater more to casual gamers in order to widen their demographic. I’ve got friends telling me now that FFXI is super easy compared to what it used to be during the 4 years I played. The same strategy can be applied to FFXIV to satisfy people who need a little more challenge, without completely catering to hardcore players. That’s a mutually inclusive idea, so why are you accusing me of being ego-centric?

As for the XP penalty for death, I think you’re so irked over arguing with a bunch of different people that you are refuting points I haven’t made. I actually agreed with you that XP penalties were too harsh, remember? I’ll repeat that I used XP penalties to describe a feeling of thrill that made certain events more memorable in FFXI – a feeling I find lacking in FFXVI as of now. I’m not ordaining it should be done with XP penalties. There have been a few good suggestions on this thread, like adding challenging NMs, more epic quests and adding positive reinforcement to people who try not to die needlessly. Those are all fine by me.

I’ve pretty much said all I’m going to say on this. With your attitude, I actually no longer care what you think. There are plenty of decent chemically balanced people on here to discuss with.

#75 Nov 30 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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473 posts
Cadant wrote:
I'm still for a death penalty that costs exp, but I'm a minority that likes that. At this point though, I would be happy with ANY kind of incentive not to die. As it stands now people can go wherever they want trying to kill whatever they want with no negative effects. Dying is a minor inconvenience at best at the moment. A majority of people use it for a free teleport back to wherever their HP is. At least in XI people would think twice about if they wanted to death port or not.



Before the RNG nerf in XI i swear i death ported everywhere, exp was always available as long as I had gil and arrows to sustain food and ammo.

When leveling pld however I BLOODY hated dying especially in the 4-5k/hour exp pt's of old that was such a pain!!!!

I remember one time with friends dying 22 times and deleveling 75-74 that night. It was brutal!!!

But it was coincidently the most fun I ever had in XI.

I am not against a small death penalty, or a staying alive bonus.
That's actually a really good idea OP
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