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The story of a duo: Post-patchFollow

#1 Nov 30 2010 at 1:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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My brother and I came to this game after duoing FF11 up to 50. In FF11, we chose two Blue Mages, as we could be the same class, both having the option of tanking, healing or damage...or any combination of the three. That was the beauty of a BLU in a DUO. By our choice of sub-job, spells and traits, the ability to customer create a party for almost any type of mob or situation was really quite incredible. Some of our best fights were ones where we dies 3-4 times while trying to figure out a build that will help us defeat a battle that we had no business defeating.

Enter FF14. After reading about the Armory system, we were incredibly excited because the whole class system seemed like one big Blue Mage from FF11! However, as we leveled up a few jobs to start making our master builds, we came to find out that it was a sham.

You see, we made our master builds by level 16, me blending CON and THM with come ARC skills mixed in, and my brother baring the ways of GLD, LNC and MAR. One problem...WE COULDN'T LEVEL UP!

Yeah, having all of those cross-class skills gave an incredible diversity and flexibility to the duo, but you just couldn't use it becaue you didn't get experience from cross classed skills (though some heals gave a litte, and the taunts seemed to give some). So we created our 1-3 usable skill builds and basically, converted tactical battling into EXP pharming.

Well, that has officially changed. For a duo, and I imagine a trio, even with the seemingly lower SP per kill, battle is fun again. In fact, because we're able to create our master builds, we are able to not only kill faster (instad of prolonging each battle) to make it more fast paced feeling, but also able to reform our duo to take on higher leveled mobs for challenge, and hopefully, when NMs are released, we will finally find a true reason to have flexibility of classes in the duo. FF11 had it, and hopefully, FF14 will get it. It is specific fights where it takes deep thought on class builds (as there are only two of us to cover three roles of healer, tank, damage), tactical and strategic battle and skill and communication to beat battles, breaking incredible odds to do it.

The system is there now, so bring on the mobs!

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 3:52am by Mhantra
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#2 Nov 30 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
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Yes you are right, and I admire the enthusiasm behind your post. However, SP really is broken at the moment and it appears the party mechanic is not working as intended.

So, when it is fixed, things can only get better. I don't want it to go overboard with the party reward, but currently the incentive and reward is for a group to bash the weakest mobs. They need to be rewarded for fighting tough mobs, and it needs to be more benefical then soloing. Not a huge margin, but otherwise what is the point in partying when i can keep all the drops myself if i solo.

Most people i know 35+ are currently levelling all their alt jobs to 20 solo to gather as much craft mats as they can. They are also crafting much more until party play is fixed.

I like the new mechanic, and I like guaranteed SP. But I do not agree with a party being rewarded with optimal levelling for farming trash. it is not challanging, you are not learning the class and it is not preparing you for endgame fights.

If anything, since the patch all i have been doing is spam light attack on trash. 111111111 I never did that in Eft parties :(




Edited, Nov 30th 2010 3:05am by MisterGaribaldi
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#3 Nov 30 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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"party" play for small groups isnt broken tho giribaldi as long as you form a plan before heading out and considering the current system. you can burn through super easy mobs in less than 10secs a piece for 60sp, or you can duo higher mobs for easily twice that sp. the changes havent broken "party" play, theyv just gotten rid of the 12+ member mass zerg mobs u shouldnt be messing with otherwise mentality.

an example from tonight on my 21 lancer.


i decided to try out the burn down easy mobs solo for optimal sp strategy. at 21 i decided to dominate some sea puks. easy 60-73 sp per mob in 10ish seconds, not too bad.

so i decide to see what happens on a nannygoat, 115-138 sp in 25-30 seconds solo (light bulb goes off in my head)

HEY, IF I CAN KILL THIS NANNY IN 25 SECONDS BY MYSELF FOR DOUBLE THE SKILL POINTS WHAT IF.......?

duoing nannygoats for 130-150 skillpoints every 10 seconds > soloing puks for 60 in the same timespan



party play isnt broken, its just more conducive to smaller organized groups. the key is finding the ideal target that takes approximately the same ammount of time to kill than u could do solo. party play was fixed already with the latest patch, people saying theyr not leveling untill it is will be waiting for a long time imho.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:30am by Elamille
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This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.

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#4 Nov 30 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Default
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Elamille wrote:
people saying theyr not leveling untill it is will be waiting for a long time imho.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:30am by Elamille


Ah, you mean most of the population
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#5 Nov 30 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
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tylerbee wrote:
Elamille wrote:
people saying theyr not leveling untill it is will be waiting for a long time imho.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:30am by Elamille


Ah, you mean most of the population



not the smart ones who actually experiment a little and consider all options before threatening to hold their breath til mommy gives them what they want.
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Gadhelyn wrote:
This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.

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#6 Nov 30 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
"party" play for small groups isnt broken tho giribaldi as long as you form a plan before heading out and considering the current system. you can burn through super easy mobs in less than 10secs a piece for 60sp, or you can duo higher mobs for easily twice that sp. the changes havent broken "party" play, theyv just gotten rid of the 12+ member mass zerg mobs u shouldnt be messing with otherwise mentality.

an example from tonight on my 21 lancer.


i decided to try out the burn down easy mobs solo for optimal sp strategy. at 21 i decided to dominate some sea puks. easy 60-73 sp per mob in 10ish seconds, not too bad.

so i decide to see what happens on a nannygoat, 115-138 sp in 25-30 seconds solo (light bulb goes off in my head)

HEY, IF I CAN KILL THIS NANNY IN 25 SECONDS BY MYSELF FOR DOUBLE THE SKILL POINTS WHAT IF.......?

duoing nannygoats for 130-150 skillpoints every 10 seconds > soloing puks for 60 in the same timespan



party play isnt broken, its just more conducive to smaller organized groups. the key is finding the ideal target that takes approximately the same ammount of time to kill than u could do solo. party play was fixed already with the latest patch, people saying theyr not leveling untill it is will be waiting for a long time imho.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:30am by Elamille


Dude party play is broken at all levels. I can solo more sp than hour than people can duo at really low levels. The only siuation where I hear people earning anything liek decent SP is low 20's at Nanawa.

Also, I stand by my previous points, party play should not be most beneficial when killing the weakest mobs
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#7 Nov 30 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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People don't like change...
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

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#8 Nov 30 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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The problem isn't the game, it's the people.

Parties in FFXI were absolutely horrible if you didn't know the camp sites to use for a particular group of a certain level range. Heck there's campsites there that only allow a 2 level gap before they start to suck.

Also, try running a party in FFXI with no food, basic gear, and a mish mash of noobs (we're all noobs at the moment) in a pickup party all trying to be WAR/WHMs. Yeah, it's not the game.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 10:33am by Yodabunny
#9 Nov 30 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Yesterday: Duo'ed my Arc with another Arc, both rank 29. 3 hour grind, quite a bit of downtime (dinner break, smoke breaks, etc.), ended up getting 15k SP and 250k gil's worth in shards and items each. We were fighting mobs that gave us about 50-120 SP per kill.

Today: Duo'ed my Con with another Con, started out ranks 10 and 12. 3 hour grind with a bit of downtime but not as much as yesterday, ended up getting 24k SP and about 200k gil's worth in shards and items each. We were fighting mobs that gave us about 90-180 SP per kill. At the end of the day, we hit ranks 14 and 15, respectively.



Edited, Nov 30th 2010 12:48pm by Threx
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#10 Nov 30 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
Elamille wrote:
people saying theyr not leveling untill it is will be waiting for a long time imho.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:30am by Elamille


Ah, you mean most of the population



not the smart ones who actually experiment a little and consider all options before threatening to hold their breath til mommy gives them what they want.


Personally I think it is the opposite, the smart ones have already gone out and done those experiments to multiple mobs and in multiple areas. I don't know who you're talking about, but they sound slow.
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#11 Nov 30 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:

Also, try running a party in FFXI with no food, basic gear, and a mish mash of noobs (we're all noobs at the moment) in a pickup party all trying to be WAR/WHMs. Yeah, it's not the game.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 10:33am by Yodabunny


That's not really the point, though. the point is that there's not much benefit to having a badass party setup if you don't even get much more SP for higher level mobs than lower level mobs. Point is with the current setup the only way you can get good Sp is by raping low crap. With that said, I do agree that everyone is noobs right now and have to re-learn the SP system and what's best to kill. However, it's been almost a week of people searching for good ways to do it and it seems like there's no benefit of fighting higher level stuff in a party at this time.
#12 Nov 30 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ultimately, I just wanted to point out that our duo was actually FUN for the first time in a long time.

SP, party broken etc isn't really part of the picture here. I know people have issues with SP and grouping. I wanted to point out that at least we can actually use the armory system and skills from multiple classes to create a compelling combat system for our duo.

Funny enough, my brother and I are in this for the long haul and don't really obsess over SP gain. It sucked when he would get 500SP for two swings of an axe, and I would get nuthin' on my THM. So yeah, glad THAT is fixed lol. He would end up getting his 500 SP, then sheath his weapon and stand there while I grind SP. Seriously, that is awful.

But ya...we don't obsess on SP or level gaining or max SP per hour or anything of the sort. We came from the day when in EQ1 you couldn't really duo anyway, so we're thankful it is an option.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 9:40pm by Mhantra
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#13 Nov 30 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Eldonia wrote:
[quote=Yodabunny]
there's no benefit of fighting higher level stuff in a party at this time.


there is tho, just not in the sense that we'v grown accustomed to. the most important concept to consider when forming a party now is finding mobs you can kill with your group that take about the same amount of time as you do solo.

dont aim for things 10+ levels above you, **** dont even aim for reds or orange con mobs.

if it takes you 10 seconds to kill a blue con mob for 60sp group up with a friend and fight yellow con mobs. 1 person soloing a blue should take about the same time as 2 people duoing a yellow and i guarantee you'll take in more sp/hr.


people are complaining sp is now broken but if you really think about it i think most reasonable people would agree it was broken pre-patch. sure its slower now, which is hard to get behind and support but the current system by far seems like the way it should have been from the start.

if sp wasnt broken from the beginning nobody would be complaining about how it is now. *shrug* o well
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Gadhelyn wrote:
This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.

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#14 Nov 30 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I think most people think grinding on easy prey = broken
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#15 Dec 01 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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Aha, killing weak mob fast to gain sp is very boring thing. We prefer take some risk on dangerous mob such as drak to gain high reward. But the reward now is no near worth trouble at all. Everybody wanna kill weakest mob of the highest rank. This is not fun.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 2:16am by Starkaiser
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