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Party SP Bonus Explained (Seriously)Follow

#1 Dec 01 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Default
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This is the defacto explaination of exactly how the Skill Points Bonus system works. Even described using SE's example party setup form the patch notes. This system has been thoroughly tested and proven to be 100% accurate within 2% margin of error.

It is originally explained in this feedback article by me after days of extensive testing with my Linkshell.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173&mid=1291159378289578048&page=1

Special thanks to Crymson Ifrit , Pussn Boots and Cornyboob Funnyname on Wutai server.

This is not how it works in FFXIV.

If you are ever Fatigued and a conjurer (for example) you will notice a message at bottom of the screen in chat log. It reads Your Conjurer skill points bonus has increased. This means that Your SP is being increased by minus x points ( - x ). If you kill enough monsters your skill points bonus will increase and go up in a exponential negative fasion. - 5 - 6 - 7 -8 etc.

In Parties in FFXIV the party bonus is calculated as such.

In a party of 2 players one 20 and one 10 the rank 10 player will receive NO party bonus so his Skill Points Gain will not increase by Minus x Points because he is out of the +5 -10 Range. The Rank 20 however will benifit from the party bonus because the Rank 10 Luckily is withen the -10 Range. This player will be blessed with 10 ranks of increased Minus 5% ( -5% ) Bonus skill points, in turn reducing his Skill Points Gained by 50%. This makes him feel really happy because he is getting Maximum Skill Points Bonus. ;)

If you introduce any new players into our example party say a rank 15 player lucky enough to get a invite into your uber SP party.

This new Rank 15 player is withen 5 Ranks of the R20 and thus he gains a Skill Points Bonus Bonus of Minus 25% He is even more blessed then the R20 still and gains much Skill Points and Rejoices in his major gains.

But because he is also now withen the +5 range of the R10 party member he also gets an extra Minus 25% Skill Points Bonus.

Keep in Mind that this scales downward the lower your rank so Try to get into a party as low a rank as possible to Get the Minimum Skill Points Bonus. After all your the lowest rank and you ahve the most work ahead of you. You in turn deserve not to have to deal with the Skill Points Bonus because of All you lack of effort.

Thank you for your time in completely understanding the FFXIV Skill Points Bonus System.

SE Loves you t(^o^t) too...



Edited, Dec 1st 2010 6:35am by cornyboob

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 6:36am by cornyboob

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 9:24am by Fleven Lock Thread: flamewar
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#2 Dec 01 2010 at 4:51 AM Rating: Decent
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This only explains what we already know.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#3 Dec 01 2010 at 4:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Not everybody knows this information so i thought i would kindly put it out there as a constructive and informative factual post.

Thanks for the reply tho.

Hyanmen wrote:
This only explains what we already know.

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Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#4 Dec 01 2010 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Might as well put this here too.

This is how it's done in XI:

Party size Normal share Signet share Total share (normal) Total share (signet)
1 1.00 1.00 1.0 1.0
2 0.60 0.75 1.2 1.5
3 0.45 0.55 1.35 1.65
4 0.40 0.45 1.6 1.8
5 0.37 0.39 1.85 1.95
6 0.35 0.35 2.1 2.1

What you can see here is the normal exp share between members and the share with signet BONUS applied.

The total EXP you gain per mob is much larger with signet on than without. That's the BONUS.

You know how it's done in XIV? These are the preliminary results:

Party size Normal share Total share
1 1.00 1.00
2 0.90 1.8
3 0.80 2.6

This bonus is even larger than the signet bonus ever was. You are essentially gaining almost double the total EXP per monster than if you were soloing. Even more with three members in the group.

If someone doesn't get it I can explain it further.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#5 Dec 01 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Default
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It is to be noted that this explanation is for EXP and not SP just dont wnat to confuse anyone since my explanation is so clearcut.

Hyanmen wrote:
Might as well put this here too.

This is how it's done in XI:

Party size Normal share Signet share Total share (normal) Total share (signet)
1 1.00 1.00 1.0 1.0
2 0.60 0.75 1.2 1.5
3 0.45 0.55 1.35 1.65
4 0.40 0.45 1.6 1.8
5 0.37 0.39 1.85 1.95
6 0.35 0.35 2.1 2.1

What you can see here is the normal exp share between members and the share with signet BONUS applied.

The total EXP you gain per mob is much larger with signet on than without. That's the BONUS.

You know how it's done in XIV? These are the preliminary results:

Party size Normal share Total share
1 1.00 1.00
2 0.90 1.8
3 0.80 2.6

This bonus is even larger than the signet bonus ever was. You are essentially gaining almost double the total EXP per monster than if you were soloing. Even more with three members in the group.

If someone doesn't get it I can explain it further.

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Cornyboob Funnyname Wutai Phys 50 Conj 49 Weaver 49 LW 34 Alch 28 Pug 22 Archer 20 Glad 19 Thaum 20 GS 11 Bot 9 Miner 8 Shield 44 Maur 3

#6 Dec 01 2010 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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When I say EXP I mean both EXP and SP. This may have been confusing, sorry.
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#7 Dec 01 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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588 posts
Are you sure your numbers are correct as i dont see where the negative value is introduced in your theorized matrix.

Perhaps you can give a example SP breakdown by party member in the 10 15 20 rank 3 man group example that I and Square-Enix have so graciously provided to help anyone who is not a trigonometry major in High School / College.

Thanks in advance.

Hyanmen wrote:
When I say EXP I mean both EXP and SP. This may have been confusing, sorry.



Edited, Dec 1st 2010 6:06am by cornyboob
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#8 Dec 01 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, I am sure. It holds true up until 3 members, there is no good data for 4 and more players sadly.

As a real example, say a monster gives you 100 SP solo. So when you kill the mob, it gives you a total SP of 100.

Now if you add another member, your "normal share" becomes 0.90 from 1.00. This means that in this case the monster gives both of you 90 SP instead of 100. For a total SP of 180.

So basically your total share becomes from 1.00 (100) to 1.80 (180).

Compare to XI- if you solo an EM, you gain 100 exp. If you duo an EM, you gain 60 exp. Normal share goes from 1.00 to 0.60. Total share from 1.00 (100) to 1.20 (60+60).

However, with the signet Bonus applied, in a duo you gain 75 exp this time. Normal share is bumped from 0.60 to 0.75, while total share increases from 1.2 to 1.5 (75+75 exp total).
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#9 Dec 01 2010 at 5:18 AM Rating: Default
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Probably because if 4 or more people are in a party its probably a 15 man RMT clan that doesnt care to collect data just gil and shards..

Or it is a Powerleveling group that only cares about loot drops and not the above formentioned data collection.

Sad year in gaming.

Hyanmen wrote:
Yes, I am sure. It holds true up until 3 members, there is no good data for 4 and more players sadly.

As a real example, say a monster gives you 100 SP solo. So when you kill the mob, it gives you a total SP of 100.

Now if you add another member, your "normal share" becomes 0.90 from 1.00. This means that in this case the monster gives both of you 90 SP instead of 100. For a total SP of 180.

So basically your total share becomes from 1.00 (100) to 1.80 (180).

Compare to XI- if you solo an EM, you gain 100 exp. If you duo an EM, you gain 60 exp. Normal share goes from 1.00 to 0.60. Total share from 1.00 (100) to 1.20 (60+60).

However, with the signet Bonus applied, in a duo you gain 75 exp this time. Normal share is bumped from 0.60 to 0.75, while total share increases from 1.2 to 1.5 (75+75 exp total).



Edited, Dec 1st 2010 6:19am by cornyboob
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#10 Dec 01 2010 at 5:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or because we need consistent data to make correct conclusions. Every member has to be the same rank for the us to get correct data.

Your thread started off well, but it seems understanding the system is no longer relevant for you.

I think it was only in the first place because you thought you could make it seem in a bad light. Too bad it makes more sense than you initially thought.
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#11 Dec 01 2010 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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... This is another one of those joke threads, right?
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Melaahna Valiera
#12 Dec 01 2010 at 5:27 AM Rating: Default
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Well all jokes aside the system basically works as i described except for the fact that the values of the negative variable for the subtraction from the base SP gained is not actually -5% it is a value that closly matches that estimated value.

I actually intended to explain it in as clear a fasion as possible in case a person who works for SE reads it and realised they totally screwed up and works twords explaining how they messed up toa programmer so that they can change the negative cvalue to a positive value and in turn make the game work as intended.

This was not intended to be a joke or a mocking of the current system.

But a practically perfect explaination of how badly the developers screwed up.

Thank you for understanding and contributing to the understanding of the SP system as we know it today.
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#13 Dec 01 2010 at 5:28 AM Rating: Default
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No in fact this is not a joke this is an approximation of exactly how the party SP bonus system is implemented at this very second on the live servers.

As sad and bad of a joke it looks that is not my making its a developer at SE that cant program worth a ****.

Timorith wrote:
... This is another one of those joke threads, right?

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#14 Dec 01 2010 at 5:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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As you so eloquently keep putting it Hyan this is not ffxi. Can't compare it to a signet bonus as there is no such thing in xiv. Before, sp was individualized. People wanted it not to be held up to a random generator, not shared in any capacity. There is no bonus - as compared to before sp was individualized. To say there IS a bonus you would first need to apply a form of precedent which there is none in this game.
#15 Dec 01 2010 at 5:34 AM Rating: Good
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****! I just wasted 5mins of my life reading this BS and realized its just another ranting post, with inaccurate info.

cornyboob wrote:
This is the defacto explaination of exactly how the Skill Points Bonus system works. Even described using SE's example party setup form the patch notes. This system has been thoroughly tested and proven to be 100% accurate.

It is originally explained in this feedback article by me after days of extensive testing with my Linkshell.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173&mid=1291159378289578048&page=1

Special thanks to Crymson Ifrit , Pussn Boots and Cornyboob Funnyname on Wutai server.

This is not how it works in FFXIV.

If you are ever Fatigued and a conjurer (for example) you will notice a message at bottom of the screen in chat log. It reads Your Conjurer skill points bonus has increased. This means that Your SP is being increased by minus x points ( - x ). If you kill enough monsters your skill points bonus will increase and go up in a exponential negative fasion. - 5 - 6 - 7 -8 etc.

In Parties in FFXIV the party bonus is calculated as such.

In a party of 2 players one 20 and one 10 the rank 10 player will receive NO party bonus so his Skill Points Gain will not increase by Minus x Points because he is out of the +5 -10 Range. The Rank 20 however will benifit from the party bonus because the Rank 10 Luckily is withen the -10 Range. This player will be blessed with 10 ranks of increased Minus 5% ( -5% ) Bonus skill points, in turn reducing his Skill Points Gained by 50%. This makes him feel really happy because he is getting Maximum Skill Points Bonus. ;)

If you introduce any new players into our example party say a rank 15 player lucky enough to get a invite into your uber SP party.

This new Rank 15 player is withen 5 Ranks of the R20 and thus he gains a Skill Points Bonus Bonus of Minus 25% He is even more blessed then the R20 still and gains much Skill Points and Rejoices in his major gains.

But because he is also now withen the +5 range of the R10 party member he also gets an extra Minus 25% Skill Points Bonus.

Keep in Mind that this scales downward the lower your rank so Try to get into a party as low a rank as possible to Get the Minimum Skill Points Bonus. After all your the lowest rank and you ahve the most work ahead of you. You in turn deserve not to have to deal with the Skill Points Bonus because of All you lack of effort.

Thank you for your time in completely understanding the FFXIV Skill Points Bonus System.

SE Loves you t(^o^t) too...


#16 Dec 01 2010 at 5:35 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As you so eloquently keep putting it Hyan this is not ffxi. Can't compare it to a signet bonus as there is no such thing in xiv.


There's no need to. XI had a party bonus even without signet, signet just made the bonus even larger for low-man groups.

The total share kept growing until 6 members where it peaked at 2.1, in XIV the total share seems to keep growing much faster. This is the bonus. You gain more total SP for killing one monster.

If there was no bonus, the total share would be 1.00 no matter how many members you had. 3 members? 100 exp turns into 33. 5 members? 100 exp turns into 20 exp.

Like boob already confirmed, when you invite a member more than +5/-10 ranks above/below you, the total share no longer goes up. It is fixed. 3 members = 33 exp. 5 members = 20 exp. No bonus at all.
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#17 Dec 01 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Default
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I have confirmed this to be true eventually you get completely useless SP and your simply there for loot and the conversation which always tends to get negative and ranty and peopel eventually leave mad an just might put you on their ignore list for convinceing them that good SP was possible....

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#18 Dec 01 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
As you so eloquently keep putting it Hyan this is not ffxi. Can't compare it to a signet bonus as there is no such thing in xiv.


There's no need to. XI had a party bonus even without signet, signet just made the bonus even larger for low-man groups.

The total share kept growing until 6 members where it peaked at 2.1, in XIV the total share seems to keep growing much faster. This is the bonus. You gain more total SP for killing one monster.

If there was no bonus, the total share would be 1.00 no matter how many members you had. 3 members? 100 exp turns into 33. 5 members? 100 exp turns into 20 exp.

Like boob already confirmed, when you invite a member more than +5/-10 ranks above/below you, the total share no longer goes up. It is fixed. 3 members = 33 exp. 5 members = 20 exp. No bonus at all.


Let be get this straight about the bonus thingy.

For Example, you go into a shop to buy stuff, the store owner says that since you are the first customer, he'll give a $100 gift voucher. But if you bring along a friend next time, you get a bonus of 1 more gift voucher.

So tomorrow you came back to the shop, the owner, then gives you a voucher and the extra gift voucher, he gave it to your friend, instead of you. Now both of you get a gift voucher, upon looking at it you find out its $70 each.

And it sounds correct because he never said the voucher is going to you, and the $$$ is in fact lower. And not forgetting you 2 are getting a total of $140 worth of gift voucher.

Its a bonus considering he gave you only $70 (>...>?
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#19 Dec 01 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Default
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Im having a problem with this analogy but sure we might be complaiiing that we got SP in general but considering that the same store used to give you $400-500 every time unless you happened to be unlucky when he temporarily ran out and got $15 or $0.


Then yeah you now understand why complaining about only getting $70 can be a relavent issue.
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#20 Dec 01 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Let be get this straight about the bonus thingy.


Analogies, oh god...

No no... just no. You can't use that analogy to explain the system.

Let's say your boss pays you 100 bucks for finishing a project. But you can also work on the project with a friend, but the boss will give both of you only 90 bucks for finishing it. However, you will finish the task much faster because there's two of you, and you can move on to the next project much faster. The total pay for the project also bumped up from 100 bucks to 180, making it more worthwhile to "duo".

It may be worthwhile even if both of you got 50 bucks for finishing the project, although the benefit would be +-0. You finish the project twice as fast, but you need to finish 2 projects to gain the same amount of money as if you did one project alone.


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 3:06pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#21 Dec 01 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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What cornboob and many others seem to expect:
1 person - 100 sp/person
2 person (same mob) - 110 sp/person
3 person (same mob) - 120 sp/person

Exact increase per person arbitrarily chosen to make the example.

Why in Promathia's name would anyone expect that lower difficulty to defeat one mob (more people, easier to kill one mob) leads to MORE sp gain per person?

Hyanmen correctly explained how the current system actually gives bonus.
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#22 Dec 01 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Probably because thats how it used to work.. Did you play the game pre SP 2.0 system? In a group that actually got 500 sp a kill? The same mobs now give you 140 or less. For same Group.

In essence it now takes a lot longer to rank up in groups.

But at same time now it takes same time to rank up solo as a group.

The playing field has basically been leveled.

However the playing field should never be this level as it then takes away from people who like to group and rank faster. This in turn alienates people and makes them quit and that in turn takes away from money to make the game better.

Do you follow me yet?

This isnt "All good" just because a mage class can now solo and get decent SP.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 7:08am by cornyboob
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#23 Dec 01 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Probably because thats how it used to work..


"Easier mobs = more SP"... yes, it was an awesome system.

Quote:
But at same time now it takes same time to rank up solo as a group.


lol. No.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#24 Dec 01 2010 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
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The real main gripe with the new system is that the system does not actually scale up at a acceptable rate when the mobs exponentially increase in difficulty.

A mob that is 10 ranks above you gives approx the same as a mob 15 and 20 ranks above you regardless of the party staying the same makeup presuming it can defeat the monster.

With most ZERG parties they usually can defeat said monster.

And they are supposed to get equal payouts in SP but they sadly do not.
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#25 Dec 01 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The real main gripe with the new system is that the system does not actually scale up at a acceptable rate when the mobs exponentially increase in difficulty.


It can be, but it doesn't have to be that way.

There are downsides to that kind of system as well, as explained in the other thread.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#26 Dec 01 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I played since beta, and I found the old system to be way too random (you could easily get no SP at all on a mob, while the next mob of same level and type could give you max SP).
That you could get 500SP/player in 15player groups previously is not really related to bonus SP, but to how the game mechanics worked then.
Deterministic SP and bonus SP as they have now, I find to be more fair and easier to deal with.
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#27 Dec 01 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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The trouble with joke threads is that if they're not funny, they're crap.

This one is not funny.

cornyboob, you might do well to avoid jokes that require you to make yourself appear intelligent. You lose something in the translation.
#28 Dec 01 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Default
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Where is the joke?

Your always trollingmy posts...

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#29 Dec 01 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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cornyboob wrote:
Where is the joke?

Your always trollingmy posts...



You couldn't have been serious. It was pretty much figured out on day one after the patch that SP is divided amongst the people in the party and then the SP bonus is applied. The issue most people who complain about the SP system seem to have is that the bonus is not enough, and that the SP earned from mobs above your rank is too little to justify taking on harder mobs. Hence, a lot of people feel it's better to run around and slaughter blue mobs.
#30 Dec 01 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Default
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I am glad your psychich and think you know what i am thinking.

If you would just read my mind at this moment and stop downrating my posts.

I am glad your such a fan boi and think that there is actually a party bonus that is a positive number and not a negative number.
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#31 Dec 01 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Default
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And now you are assuming that you know what alot of people think too..

Your quite possibly the worst forum troll ever how dod you become a moderator?

Aurelius wrote:
cornyboob wrote:
Where is the joke?

Your always trollingmy posts...



You couldn't have been serious. It was pretty much figured out on day one after the patch that SP is divided amongst the people in the party and then the SP bonus is applied. The issue most people who complain about the SP system seem to have is that the bonus is not enough, and that the SP earned from mobs above your rank is too little to justify taking on harder mobs. Hence, a lot of people feel it's better to run around and slaughter blue mobs.

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#32 Dec 01 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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In ffxi the party bonus meant more because the amount of xp gained by killing a mob was higher in proportion to the amount of xp it took to level up. At level 32-33 it took 6k to level up. So if you duo'd 100 even matches for 60 exp each, you would gain a level. Now look at how much sp it takes to get from 32-33: 47k. I get about 70-95 when I duo yellow mobs, with an average of about 85. This means that I have to kill about 500 yellow mobs to rank up. Now let's consider the recovery rate in both games. In ffxi, it took much longer to heal, maybe enough to bring the total time it takes to level on comparable mobs closer to that of ffxiv, but I wouldn't say it makes it equal. There is also the pure monotony of killing 500 things versus killing 100. If they could reduce the total number of mobs you need to kill before leveling, i think it would be better. Also, the difficulty of higher level monsters is now too much to warrant grouping up in larger numbers, which I enjoy doing.
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