Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
This Forum is Read Only

I met a terribly selfish Carpenter.....Follow

#1 Dec 01 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
*
164 posts
Last night, I got all of the mats needed to make 3 Elm Velocity Bows. The scale glue alone was 30k each. The difficult part was finding a carpenter that was 40+, so I went to Gridania and waited in the guild. A level 42 started crafting in there and I sent him a message asking him if he'd help me build my bow. After asking me what type of bow and what I was willing to pay him, I told him it was the velocity bow and that I had gil or shards/crystals for trade. I told him that I'd give him 60 wind shards if he'd make me 2 bows.

He told me that it wasn't worth his time and that I would have to pay him 300 wind shards per synth!

I looked up the common price for this bow using the Yellow
1. Gremlin Bazaar app and found that it sold for 100-200k gil
2. I already spent 30k gill for each scale glue
3. 300 wind shard @ 200 gill each = 50,000 gil

Do you guys feel like this is being selfish, or his right to charge that much per synth?
____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#2 Dec 01 2010 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
*
52 posts
A bit from column A and a bit from column B.

Ultimately, it's his right to charge whatever he wants. I'm sorry it didn't fall in line with your expectations but the good thing is you have the option of finding someone else who would be able to assist you.

I think it's awesome you got the mats though now just find the right crafter for you.

Good luck.

Brandon
#3 Dec 01 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
38 posts
he can charge what he likes unfortunately
however once the economy is fully established he is less likely ot get future trade over somone who will help
maybe he was concerned about botching an expensive synth?
#4 Dec 01 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, if they sell for 100-200k, and you're essentially paying 80k, I can kind of see why he'd want something worthwhile. Personally, I would of just purchased them for 100k a pop to save you the hassle. He has no idea if you're trying to turn around and sell these off for profit after all, so he might as well make you pay appropriately. Also, considering shards come in HUGE bulk from leves now, he might as well ask for quite a few. Personally, I think the crafter was right on this one, he probably spent a great deal of time getting to level 42. He probably figures there's few others on the server that high, so he can be picky.
____________________________

#5Siulang, Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 8:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are a terrible person, I will definitely put you in blacklist if I know your character name(if we are in same server).
#6 Dec 01 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
*
164 posts
I wouldn't have minded if he botched the synth...he has no control over that. I also believe he should be paid for his work, but 50k gill for 5 minutes of his time is silly. Also, if he told me he was too busy, I'd understand that as well, but he didn't.

Maybe we need a Better Business Bureau to mark guys like this??
____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#7 Dec 01 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
*
164 posts
Quote:
Also, considering shards come in HUGE bulk from leves now, he might as well ask for quite a few


level 20 carpentry leves give me about 20-40 shards per. If you consider the time running out to whatever camp is needed, it would take hours to get the 300 needed to make this bow.
____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#8 Dec 01 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
611 posts
Siulang wrote:
You are a terrible person, I will definitely put you in blacklist if I know your character name(if we are in same server).



¿Qué


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:05am by chomama
____________________________
FFXI Ronyn RDM 75 (R.I.P.) -Fairy / BarretJax 95 MNK (Non-Active) - Asura
Ronin Olorin / Ronyn Oloryn (Active) - Ultros Server

"Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence." - Max Ehrmann
#9 Dec 01 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
*
70 posts
Why would you need 3 bows anyway? He might have thought that you were doing this for profit and thus asked for as much as he did.
#10 Dec 01 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
tmproff wrote:
I wouldn't have minded if he botched the synth...he has no control over that. I also believe he should be paid for his work, but 50k gill for 5 minutes of his time is silly. Also, if he told me he was too busy, I'd understand that as well, but he didn't.

Maybe we need a Better Business Bureau to mark guys like this??


The key thing is that he said he didn't want to do it because it wasn't worth his time.

Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.

If he had only said "Sure, I'll do it but I charge 500 wind shards a synth" then that would be a different story.
#11 Dec 01 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
*
52 posts
Wolfeinstein wrote:
Why would you need 3 bows anyway? He might have thought that you were doing this for profit and thus asked for as much as he did.


Multiples of weapons negates the need to repair constantly when grinding.

Brandon
#12 Dec 01 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
*
106 posts
My thoughts on this:

- Actually, 300 wind shards at 200 gil = 60,000 gil.
- While I don't personally agree with charging that much, words like reasonable, selfish, etc., all lie within the eye of the beholder. What might be reasonable for me to charge, might be seemingly selfish to a lower ranking char, and might be seemingly far too little for a higher ranking char.
- Are you in a LS that someone might be able to help you?
- The point that the Carpenter might be worried about botching the expensive synth is a very valid point.
- I'm hoping as time goes by, and as more and more people rank up their crafting, that this will become less of a problem, though I know that doesn't help you.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:15am by ThinkDeeply

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:17am by ThinkDeeply
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1818162[/ffxivsig]
#13 Dec 01 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
76 posts
chomama wrote:
Siulang wrote:
You are a terrible person, I will definitely put you in blacklist if I know your character name(if we are in same server).



¿Qué


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:05am by chomama


In case someday he run into me, asking me to do something for him, yet we couldn't make a agreement satisfying both parties... he come to the forum and said I am a selfish person....
#14 Dec 01 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
*
164 posts
Quote:
Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.


He never said he didn't want to do it, he said it wasn't worth his time to do it.

I had a hard time when I first started playing the game, so I try to help out whenever possible, even if I waste gil or time.
____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#15 Dec 01 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
76 posts
Ravashack wrote:
tmproff wrote:
I wouldn't have minded if he botched the synth...he has no control over that. I also believe he should be paid for his work, but 50k gill for 5 minutes of his time is silly. Also, if he told me he was too busy, I'd understand that as well, but he didn't.

Maybe we need a Better Business Bureau to mark guys like this??


The key thing is that he said he didn't want to do it because it wasn't worth his time.

Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.

If he had only said "Sure, I'll do it but I charge 500 wind shards a synth" then that would be a different story.


Thats not necessary the case.

It is possible that he is already working on orders fm other ppl that yield him 300windshard worth per synthesis on his crafting time.
#16 Dec 01 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
*
164 posts
Yes, I'm in a LS, but we're all in our mid 20's for crafting. We're working hard to move up, but we all have families and fulltime jobs :) I did tell him that I didn't mind if he failed the synth. I understand he doesn't have full control over that.
____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#17 Dec 01 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,120 posts
Quote:
While I don't personally agree with charging that much, words like reasonable, selfish, etc., all lie within the eye of the beholder. What might be reasonable for me to charge, might be seemingly selfish to a lower ranking char, and might be seemingly far too little for a higher ranking char.


This...to each their own. And compared to the going price of the weapon you still got a deal. Whether the "going price" is fair or not is another question with a similar answer. I'll often pay extra for something I want just to avoid any hassles.

A common discussion in the various craft/repair threads on here: Person A is being greedy because they're asking too much of Person B. Person B is still getting a deal, but wants to spend as little as possible to get what he wants. Which one is being greedier? Somethin' has to give in that situation. Of course we'll always see it from our perspective....

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:23am by TwistedOwl
____________________________

#18 Dec 01 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
**
398 posts
I made a thread about this didn't I?

You aren't paying him the amount for "5 minutes of work", you paid him the amount for a service that he could offer, and you could not. Effectively, you gave him money for all of the hours and hours he spent getting SP on carpentry. Also, he doesn't have any incentive to do this service for you. He doesn't get any SP for it.

Also, lets do a bit of math now. Shards are **** easy to come by. People are soloing = 6x more shards in the economy, and leves are rewarding nearly 10x of what they did before. 300 wind shards = 200g each = 60k each synth, which is reasonable given that to level, you need literally 2000 + at least 5 hours of your time.

If we went with your model, 60 wind shards = 12k = Amount you can make in two minutes.

You buying overpriced scale glue is not his problem.
#19 Dec 01 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
*
106 posts
Well, it sounds like you said/did everything right. Honestly, just stick around the guild and I'm sure someone else will come along that would be glad to do it for you.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1818162[/ffxivsig]
#20 Dec 01 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
*
164 posts
Quote:
Well, it sounds like you said/did everything right. Honestly, just stick around the guild and I'm sure someone else will come along that would be glad to do it for you.


Yep, later on that night, I had a nice guy come along that offered to do them for free. I paid him 20k gill and he was very happy...he even asked me to equip it so he could see what it looked like.

____________________________
Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.

[ffxivsig]1813781[/ffxivsig]
#21 Dec 01 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
yeah hes being a bit selfish, but its completely his right to do so.

Personally I think people are valuing their profession skills a bit too highly. I bet if that guy had another opportunity to get 60 wind shards for 2-3 minutes of their time, he'd jump on it.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]971172[/ffxivsig]
#22 Dec 01 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Ravashack wrote:
tmproff wrote:
I wouldn't have minded if he botched the synth...he has no control over that. I also believe he should be paid for his work, but 50k gill for 5 minutes of his time is silly. Also, if he told me he was too busy, I'd understand that as well, but he didn't.

Maybe we need a Better Business Bureau to mark guys like this??


The key thing is that he said he didn't want to do it because it wasn't worth his time.

Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.

If he had only said "Sure, I'll do it but I charge 500 wind shards a synth" then that would be a different story.


Come to think of it, I remember back in FFXI when people would ask me to plvl them. I'd say no, but if they pressed the point I would agree to powerleveling at a price of 100k up front and 200k per hour, payable each hour.

I never honestly expected anyone to agree to it, it was just my way of saying "I don't want to do it. I told you no. Why won't you listen?"

As an aside, one person actually -did- agree to the price and had me plvl him for 4 hours at that rate. I still didn't really want to plvl, but it bought me a vermy so I can't complain too badly.

So yeah, my first response would have been that he could be a little greedy, but given that I don't know the tone or flow of the conversation, I think it is a definite possibility that he was jut giving you an outrageous price that either:

1) You wouldn't pay anyway so you'd leave him alone, or
2) You'd pay and he'd make a massive profit for little work.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#23 Dec 01 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
*
106 posts
To everyone:
One more word of advice that I find really helps in this situation:

People react more/better when it becomes a personal situation.
If you are needing someone to craft or repair something for you, I think you'll have better results if you really look who's around you and /tell the people that "fit the bill" instead of shouting.

-Be sure to wait until they are inbetween synths, as a courtesy.
-Also, you might use the auto-translator in your /tell

(Tmproff, I know you said you did this, but I wanted to throw this out there since it's relevant to the conversation)

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:45am by ThinkDeeply
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1818162[/ffxivsig]
#24 Dec 01 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
tmproff wrote:
Quote:
Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.


He never said he didn't want to do it, he said it wasn't worth his time to do it.

I had a hard time when I first started playing the game, so I try to help out whenever possible, even if I waste gil or time.


Sorry that's my bad, thought I saw that in the original post. (That's what I get for reading and posting five seconds before leaving home.) I still think he gave you that price because he simply didn't want to do it though, as "not worth my time" has been a very common reason people have used to say "I'd rather be doing something else" in my experience, as Mikhalia illustrated for us.
#25 Dec 01 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,010 posts
I think that the OP could have been a little clearer with his math. The way it reads is that he would be getting a "deal" at the price the crafter was charging, but we don't have the numbers for what the other materials cost for the synth. The going prices for items or worth are very often marked up significantly from the price of the base materials, so without all the numbers there's no way to tell whether the crafter was just being an *** or if the OP was just being cheap.

Honestly, this is a failure of the trading system in every way. Craters skills are *too* essential, and they are walking around like they are the best thing since sliced bread and the rest of us who just want to explore and enjoy adventuring are paying the price. I've never minded paying a crafter for their skill and the equipment that they make, but some folks are taking it to an obscene amount because there is no central trade system (that actually works) and so prices are incredibly bloated and just all over the place right now.

It doesn't help that SE made Gil essentially worthless by adding fountains and practically zero sinks that actually make sense.

Overall - I don't blame the guy for not wanting to stop what he's doing just to make something for someone else regardless of the reward. Some folks just want to do their own thing without a lot of bother from strangers - it happens. Like I've said in other threads, not everyone is looking to socialize with every stranger wandering the guilds when they log onto their gaming session. But, you wouldn't even be in that predicament if there was a better way to trade because the market would correct itself and we wouldn't be seeing outrageous prices on materials and gear (not to mention we would be able to easily get a piece of equipment without a lot of fuss).
#26 Dec 01 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
*
80 posts
i don't think people understand how to barter...

usually the crafting will give you a price...if you think it is high offer something else...and vice versa until you agree on something or he won't budge and you think it is still too high.

you are want the best deal you can get (understandable, but you are paying for all the time he spent to get to the point to offer you that service...offer to pay more than you think...you'll make a contact in very good standing and hopefully in the future when you need something he'll be more willing to give you a discount.
#27 Dec 01 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
stripesonfire wrote:
i don't think people understand how to barter...


Relevant video is relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#28 Dec 01 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
****
7,106 posts
Reading this thread, I'm inclined to think that a Carpenter met a terribly selfish player.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from, that some guy I've never met is over there and has worked hard to be higher level, so he owes me his time, and he's selfish if he'd rather not have anything to do with me when I bug him for something?
#29 Dec 01 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
Caesura wrote:
Reading this thread, I'm inclined to think that a Carpenter met a terribly selfish player.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from, that some guy I've never met is over there and has worked hard to be higher level, so he owes me his time, and he's selfish if he'd rather not have anything to do with me when I bug him for something?


I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Self entitlement? Its not like he was asking to do it for free. He offered shards/gil. I'd think it was rude too.

I just don't understand why threads like this get rated down. The OP did nothing wrong, he simply asked a question based on his observations. I personally agree that the carpenter was being a selfish ***. Its not like the OP was asking him to do it for free... It would have taken him 2-3 minutes or less to craft them.

Asking for 100k or more is just being selfish. It doesn't matter how long it took him to level the craft up that high. He wasn't asking the guy to find AND but mats for the item, and THEN craft the bows. He was asking him to help finish something. Asking for that much money is just being a selfish jerk imo and I'm sorry you had to go through it OP. I'm sincerely glad you found a nice crafter that would help you out in the end. At least some people still have some compassion...


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:49pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#30 Dec 01 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
BartelX wrote:
Caesura wrote:
Reading this thread, I'm inclined to think that a Carpenter met a terribly selfish player.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from, that some guy I've never met is over there and has worked hard to be higher level, so he owes me his time, and he's selfish if he'd rather not have anything to do with me when I bug him for something?


I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Self entitlement? Its not like he was asking to do it for free. He offered shards/gil. I'd think it was rude too.

I just don't understand why threads like this get rated down. The OP did nothing wrong, he simply asked a question based on his observations. I personally agree that the carpenter was being a selfish ***. Its not like the OP was asking him to do it for free... It would have taken him 2-3 minutes or less to craft them.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:42pm by BartelX


So if you don't agree about the price of something that you yourself perceive to be, you consider the guy to be an ***?

I should start calling all the "adventurers" who sell shards an ***. No way shard cost over 10 gil, since you can only vendor that to the NPC for 1 gil!

NOT.
____________________________



[ffxivsig]1807831[/ffxivsig]
#31 Dec 01 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
*
174 posts
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Well, if they sell for 100-200k, and you're essentially paying 80k, I can kind of see why he'd want something worthwhile. Personally, I would of just purchased them for 100k a pop to save you the hassle. He has no idea if you're trying to turn around and sell these off for profit after all, so he might as well make you pay appropriately. Also, considering shards come in HUGE bulk from leves now, he might as well ask for quite a few. Personally, I think the crafter was right on this one, he probably spent a great deal of time getting to level 42. He probably figures there's few others on the server that high, so he can be picky.


Unfortunately, the situation is acurately described by this post.

There are precious few crafters able to make the item, and it is his right to charge whatever he feels is appropriate.

I saw that in one of your posts you mentioned you helped new players.

Whilst this is really commendable and I am sure a lot of people go out of their way to help new people, the bow in question doesn't sound like an item for a new player. I may be wrong, but this sounds like a mid to fairly high level bow.

Even if you paid that price, you still could have made a profit from selling the bow.

Sadly, this boils down to simple economics and supply and demand. It may not seem nice or fair, but unfortunately there is not much you can do. If in the future he ever needs anything for you and you can remember him, naturally you can return the favour eh?? :D
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1816539[/ffxivsig]
#32 Dec 01 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Caesura wrote:
Reading this thread, I'm inclined to think that a Carpenter met a terribly selfish player.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from, that some guy I've never met is over there and has worked hard to be higher level, so he owes me his time, and he's selfish if he'd rather not have anything to do with me when I bug him for something?


I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Self entitlement? Its not like he was asking to do it for free. He offered shards/gil. I'd think it was rude too.

I just don't understand why threads like this get rated down. The OP did nothing wrong, he simply asked a question based on his observations. I personally agree that the carpenter was being a selfish ***. Its not like the OP was asking him to do it for free... It would have taken him 2-3 minutes or less to craft them.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:42pm by BartelX


So if you don't agree about the price of something that you yourself perceive to be, you consider the guy to be an ***?

I should start calling all the "adventurers" who sell shards an ***. No way shard cost over 10 gil, since you can only vendor that to the NPC for 1 gil!

NOT.


What I percieve it to be? I didn't percieve anything. The OP STATED how much the bow goes for. Lets not forget that to NORMALLY make the bow, one must round up all of the materials needed which can take a great deal of time. THAT is what is factored into the cost of the bow. If someone goes to the trouble of rounding up all the materials and then is STILL required to pay a pretty large sum on top of it, that is being selfish.

But hey, way to compare it to selling shards which has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. That certainly is a solid argument...

NOT.

Edit: I'd just like to clarify. It is certainly his RIGHT to charge whatever he wants to for the synth. That doesn't mean he isn't being selfish about it. We're not here to talk about what he can and can't do however, we're here to talk about whether or not it was fair, and imo it was not.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:56pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#33 Dec 01 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
*
174 posts
@BartelX
"I just don't understand why threads like this get rated down".

I have noticed this happening as well, people getting rated down for expressing an opinion.

I can understand it if it is done in an aggressive or offensive way, but in honesty I thought he phrased his question perfectly reasonably - is this situaion unreasonable. I can also understand someone getting rated down for posting rubbish, misinformation and flaming etc. But I see a lot of this happening just becuase poeple do not agree with the viewpoint.

He presented his case logically and concisely.

The karma system here can be confussing at times :/






Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:58pm by MisterGaribaldi
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1816539[/ffxivsig]
#34 Dec 01 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
MisterGaribaldi wrote:
The karma system here can be confussing at times :/


I 100% agree.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#35 Dec 01 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
322 posts
20,000 per bow sounds fair. Thats 20% of total cost.

However he should have accepted gil instead of Wind Shards or lowered the amount of Wind Shards.

He is just greedy, get to Grid and go to the Carpenters guild and ask again.

*Edit* Wait, he asked for 300 per synth? Rip off. 100 per Synth is pushing it. Try 100 for all three synths.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:59pm by tylerbee
____________________________
[ffxivsig]1746409[/ffxivsig]

#36 Dec 01 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
____________________________



[ffxivsig]1807831[/ffxivsig]
#37 Dec 01 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
*
174 posts
Sorry I forgot to mention, you did not state which server this is on, and did you manage to get the bows made in the end.

I know a high level carp on Melmond who is exceptionally helpful and cheap. I bought a battle fork he crafted for 200k, not bad for a lvl 36 weapon - I jest this is a fantastic price and at least half price to any one else I could find.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1816539[/ffxivsig]
#38 Dec 01 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
**
398 posts
Keep in mind:

1) The carpenter likely did not want to do it anyways
2) The OP wanted to get his bows "for cheap", and because of that he bought scale glue for 5x the normal price, thinking that it should make a difference in what the crafter did
3) The carpenter is overleveled for the craft, meaning a higher chance of HQ.
4) A single rank for the carpenter costs over 2000 wind shards.
5) The OP offered less than 3% of his level in wind shards. He asked for roughly 30%, not including the time spent into getting the logs and the time needed to put in the ranks. (Rank 40 -> 41 = ~70kSP, @200/synth = 300-350 synths. Probably ~45 synths/hour = ~7 hours worth of work)
6) There was absolutely no benefit to the carpenter. No SP at all, and the OP offered an insulting amount (12k = one leve at rank 10)
7) The carpenter would never see you again.

I see the carpenter absolutely not in the wrong, nor was he greedy. He was a fair businessman. He would have been greedy if he told you something above the price of the bows, and absolutely refused to haggle.

And most likely, these posts are getting downrated because we JUST had a 323 post thing on crafters and how hard / lengthy it is to rank them that would not die. (Which covered the OP's issue very clearly and why it was fair for the crafter to do this)

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 9:04pm by Meowshi
#39 Dec 01 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#40 Dec 01 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
____________________________



[ffxivsig]1807831[/ffxivsig]
#41 Dec 01 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this, as clearly neither of us are budging. I'm just glad to get into a decent argument for once that doesn't end in flaming or rate-downs. Kudos for that.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#42 Dec 01 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,335 posts
Quote:
Keep in mind:

1) The carpenter likely did not want to do it anyways
2) The OP wanted to get his bows "for cheap", and because of that he bought scale glue for 5x the normal price, thinking that it should make a difference in what the crafter did
3) The carpenter is overleveled for the craft, meaning a higher chance of HQ.
4) A single rank for the carpenter costs over 2000 wind shards.
5) The OP offered less than 3% of his level in wind shards. He asked for roughly 30%, not including the time spent into getting the logs and the time needed to put in the ranks. (Rank 40 -> 41 = ~70kSP, @200/synth = 300-350 synths. Probably ~45 synths/hour = ~7 hours worth of work)
6) There was absolutely no benefit to the carpenter. No SP at all, and the OP offered an insulting amount (12k = one leve at rank 10)
7) The carpenter would never see you again.

I see the carpenter absolutely not in the wrong, nor was he greedy. He was a fair businessman. He would have been greedy if he told you something above the price of the bows, and absolutely refused to haggle.

And most likely, these posts are getting downrated because we JUST had a 323 post thing on crafters and how hard / lengthy it is to rank them that would not die. (Which covered the OP's issue very clearly and why it was fair for the crafter to do this)


1) then say so... what point in there is making an outrageous offer, and no "they will keep bugging me if I don't" is not an argument, last I checked most of the players are above the age of 5, and ya know, blist works.
2) What a person pays for materials is irrelevant, only the fact that they were all supplied matters. when you buy an item in a game (well except this one, evidently) is a function of several factors. Skill level of the crafter isn't one of them. Material cost is... and when you supply 100% of the materials, that part of the equation vanishes.
3)In a proper crafting negotiation, HQ results are discussed. Usually a bonus to the crafter in that event results from said discussion.
4)just as irrelevant as 2
5)The OP wasn't asking the crafter to skill up, the OP was asking the crafter to put together the materials that the OP spent the time to gather, and was offering a fair payment for the <5 minutes that it would have taken to trade mats/craft items/trade items and payment.
6) 60 wind shards, which would take more time to gather then to craft the bows, is a fair payment for the very small amount of time to do so.
7)Did said carpenter transfer servers? ohh wait, cant do that... did said carpenter delete his character any time since? nope, probably not. that crafter will see the OP again, and vice versa, its a small server.

____________________________
(clickable sig, see this thread for info)
[ffxivsig]417600[/ffxivsig]
#43 Dec 01 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
***
1,083 posts
tmproff wrote:
Quote:
Given the fact that he said he didn't want to do it, it's perfectly reasonable for him to throw out something like that to discourage you from bothering him.


He never said he didn't want to do it, he said it wasn't worth his time to do it.


I can completely sympathize with this sentiment. I don't play very much and even for members of my LS, I get a little antsy about doing mundane synths or repairs. But for non-LS members, I charge whatever I feel my time is worth at the moment. It doesn't have to relate to in-game norms, its MY time. I don't play only to help people out, although I do that occasionally too, I play to accomplish stuff. That usually costs gil or time.... and if my time is being wasted then I prefer to to be compensated somehow.

300 is probably a bit excessive, I would have gone with 200 or so. Its not like 40+ crafters are all over the place and in order to hit 40+, he certainly didn't sit around doing synths for 10k each. 10k in FFXIV is half a teleport. Its almost insulting to offer 10k to someone per synth when nearing 50 they can probably make stuff that sells for 1 million each.

To come here and call him out for being 'terribly selfish' is pretty rotten.
____________________________
Wada: "There may be some areas of testing that were lacking or too rigid."
#44 Dec 01 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
He didn't mention a name, or attempt to flame said carpenter like most posts like this, so why is that rotten? He percieved the carpenter as terribly selfish, as do I.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#45 Dec 01 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
taliph wrote:
Quote:
Keep in mind:

1) The carpenter likely did not want to do it anyways
2) The OP wanted to get his bows "for cheap", and because of that he bought scale glue for 5x the normal price, thinking that it should make a difference in what the crafter did
3) The carpenter is overleveled for the craft, meaning a higher chance of HQ.
4) A single rank for the carpenter costs over 2000 wind shards.
5) The OP offered less than 3% of his level in wind shards. He asked for roughly 30%, not including the time spent into getting the logs and the time needed to put in the ranks. (Rank 40 -> 41 = ~70kSP, @200/synth = 300-350 synths. Probably ~45 synths/hour = ~7 hours worth of work)
6) There was absolutely no benefit to the carpenter. No SP at all, and the OP offered an insulting amount (12k = one leve at rank 10)
7) The carpenter would never see you again.

I see the carpenter absolutely not in the wrong, nor was he greedy. He was a fair businessman. He would have been greedy if he told you something above the price of the bows, and absolutely refused to haggle.

And most likely, these posts are getting downrated because we JUST had a 323 post thing on crafters and how hard / lengthy it is to rank them that would not die. (Which covered the OP's issue very clearly and why it was fair for the crafter to do this)


1) then say so... what point in there is making an outrageous offer, and no "they will keep bugging me if I don't" is not an argument, last I checked most of the players are above the age of 5, and ya know, blist works.
2) What a person pays for materials is irrelevant, only the fact that they were all supplied matters. when you buy an item in a game (well except this one, evidently) is a function of several factors. Skill level of the crafter isn't one of them. Material cost is... and when you supply 100% of the materials, that part of the equation vanishes.
3)In a proper crafting negotiation, HQ results are discussed. Usually a bonus to the crafter in that event results from said discussion.
4)just as irrelevant as 2
5)The OP wasn't asking the crafter to skill up, the OP was asking the crafter to put together the materials that the OP spent the time to gather, and was offering a fair payment for the <5 minutes that it would have taken to trade mats/craft items/trade items and payment.
6) 60 wind shards, which would take more time to gather then to craft the bows, is a fair payment for the very small amount of time to do so.
7)Did said carpenter transfer servers? ohh wait, cant do that... did said carpenter delete his character any time since? nope, probably not. that crafter will see the OP again, and vice versa, its a small server.



2. Why is skill level of crafter is not a MAJOR factor to price of an in-game item? All in-game item prices are marked up from price vendor to NPC. When you supply 100% of the material, how about you supply 100% of the required skill as well? An item = Material + Skill, same for real world example. A bunch of wood and bowstring etc. doesn't make a bow, a Carpenter does. But a Carpenter can't make a bow out of thin air either.
4. Why is it irrelevant? Someone spend time and in-game money to level a trade for you and you only? Of course not, to make a profit for himself. Aren't we all?
5. The OP can skill it up himself and make the bow himself too. Why can't he skill it up himself? The crafter also spent his time to level his skill to a decent level that allow him to craft the bow as well.
6. 60 Wind Shards is fair or not, is based on how people perceive it. One guy perceive it to be fair, another would think it's not. Why is someone a billionaire and another guy is a beggar? Maybe fair, maybe not.

BartelX wrote:
He didn't mention a name, or attempt to flame said carpenter like most posts like this, so why is that rotten? He percieved the carpenter as terribly selfish, as do I.


Because his thread title simply does not ask for people's opinion, his thread title is asking for people to agree with him. Other people disagree and perceive the OP to be selfish, hence the rate down.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 9:37pm by Khornette
____________________________



[ffxivsig]1807831[/ffxivsig]
#46 Dec 01 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
tmproff wrote:
Do you guys feel like this is being selfish, or his right to charge that much per synth?


He asked the question IN his OP. Sorry it wasn't in the title thread for you... he obviously thought the carpenter was selfish and wanted to hear others opinions. But come on, are you really trying to play the "it wasn't in his topic title!" card?


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 9:45pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#47 Dec 01 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
I know for a fact I will be flamed for this but I feel it must be said. Who are we to pass judgment on another person? It is his craft, thus he has all the right to charge whatever he wants, be it 1 shard or 200,000 shards. To answer your question whether or not he was selfish is not for us to decide, since we have our own a opinions in the matter. Shop around ship as that, you do not agree with one shops pricing, move along and find another.

:) If you feel he is selfish, you are within your right, but what do you gain from rallying other people into this? No everyone is kind or helpful. Not everyone looks out for others, most gamers only care about number one, themselves. What do you gain from asking this question? It will only turn into a flame war between the opposing factions, Craffter and Battlecrafters.

Shop around and be patient.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:03pm by HonestlyPlease
#48 Dec 01 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
74 posts
I totally agree with Khornette, in my opinion he is not selfish at all.

Fair pricing is subjective and different to every single one of us, that is why our demand curve and supply curve are not identical. He just happens to be to on the high end of the supply curve and you happen to be on the low end of the demand. He could and has the total right to charge 500k per synth. He probably and most likely will have no business but maybe he is not looking for any.

Try offering really nicely Bill Gates $100, to stop what he's doing and do your homework for 5 minutes if you see him on the street. If he rejected you, would you call him unfair? Selfish? ***? You are paying at a $1200/h rate, a lot of people would jump at a deal like this.

Also, for all we know, he could be in the Elm Velocity Bow market, he could have 10 stacked up waiting to sell in his retainer.

What people have to understand is, no one is obligated to help anyone, it certainly would be nice though. At best you can say he's not a nice person or a greedy person.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1818003[/ffxivsig]
#49 Dec 01 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
BartelX wrote:
tmproff wrote:
Do you guys feel like this is being selfish, or his right to charge that much per synth?


He asked the question IN his OP. Sorry it wasn't in the title thread for you... he obviously thought the carpenter was selfish and wanted to hear others opinions. But come on, are you really trying to play the "it wasn't in his topic title!" card?


Edited, Dec 1st 2010 9:45pm by BartelX


The title relates the content of his post.

"I've answered the question to a terribly stupid poster. Do you think he is stupid or that is normal?"

What do you think about that?
____________________________



[ffxivsig]1807831[/ffxivsig]
#50 Dec 01 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
****
7,106 posts
Quote:
What I percieve it to be? I didn't percieve anything. The OP STATED how much the bow goes for.

And getting a mole removed costs $100. If I walk up to a random doctor on the street and demand that he remove my mole for $100, he's being selfish for refusing me, or for telling me that it's not worth his time?

This is the sense of entitlement I'm talking about. No one owes you service just because he can provide it. A high-rank crafting job is not a bond of servitude to everybody who wanders along wanting something repaired, and it's certainly not an obligation to accept what some random dude offers to pay when you when you normally make more than that from a synth.

#51 Dec 01 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
This reminds me of the days in FFXI where people insisted that anyone with raise was obligated to raise anyone else in the same zone, and that they were being selfish if they refused.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
« Previous 1 2 3
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (19)