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I'm still a little confused about all the hate.Follow

#1 Dec 01 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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So sorry if this has been brought up......but do none of you English players realize that you didn't play ffxi until a year after it was released. Can you imagine how much you would have hated ffxi if you were stuck leveling the base jobs for a year. DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON. And I'm sure that by the time of ps3 launch things will be just chipper.

Any other thoughts on this?
#2 Dec 01 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Thoughts: They had the experience of FFXI and should have built on that to make a superior game. I am sure it will improve as time goes on, but the basic features should of been implemented at the start.
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#3 Dec 01 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Yes and after 8yrs of another MMO and many games, you think they would understand they need alot more MEAT on a launch title.
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#4 Dec 01 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I rated you up for bringing up a good point. However, there are a couple of things that people are going to bring up. One, back in twenty aught two (2002) MMO's were in their fledgling states so stumbling out of the gate a bit was to be expected. Nowadays with a generally fixed market SE shouldn't be surprised when certain things are missing from their game that people think should be there. People assumed that SE learned from their mistakes in the first game, and it appears that they may not have learned as much as people think they should have.

I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, I'm just saying it's what people think.
#5 Dec 01 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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i agree, but i'm still clueless to how xi launched in japan, but im sure they had to deal with alot of the same problems
#6 Dec 01 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Basic game mechanics are terrible/unforgivable. Storyline unengaging/boring. Graphics nice but repetative.

They failed at their strengths :/

If there were no haters the game would still be the lolfest it was pre patch.



#7 Dec 01 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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While I don't disagree with you, consider the customer reaction if a car manufacturer were to release a car with a wobbly wheel, brakes that only work intermittently, cracks in the windshield, and loose seats with the promise of "Just bring it in to a mechanic once a week and we'll work on it; eventually it will be great!"

When you have several years of experience with a product that your customers are happy with, it kinda blindsides them when you give them a product that is of a lower quality than your existing one, and lacks features that your customers have come to expect from you.

I'm sure FFXIV will get better over time, but most people who have tried it and given up were expecting that it would be "Everything FFXI was and more", not worse.

Conspiracy theory: Is it just me or did FFXI start getting really good around the same time that they announced they were working on Project rapture? The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if they took the original FFXI team and put them to work on FFXIV while hiring new people who ended up making FFXI great. It would certainly explain why FFXIV is, content-wise, around the same point in its development that FFXI was when FFXIV started production, why FFXI suddenly started getting new content around the same time FFXIV started development, and why FFXIV's developers seem to leave us with the impression that they haven't learned anything from FFXI.

I could be wrong, but it's food for thought.
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#8 Dec 01 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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I think there's plenty of flaws in the game that deserve discussion. However it often happens that even a calm discussion about the flaws can be seen as hating/whining/trolling and stuff gets out of hand.

As for the real hatred, whining & trolling we see....I think that's ridiculous anyway because we're just talking about a game...

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:15pm by TwistedOwl
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#9 Dec 01 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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A bit of the hate is because they purposely released it early to fudge their financials.

On the flip side, if it wasn't for the horrid reviews and all, they may not have been as responsive as they are now.

#10 Dec 01 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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That's true OP. But as others have said, they took nothing they learned from FFXI. They had a very good foundation to build upon from FFXI but for some odd reason they decided to start over from scratch. From the launch of XIV you wouldnt know that this company has a very good MMO that is running on 8 years under it's belt.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:19pm by Scape13
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#11 Dec 01 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
Vindrax wrote:
Basic game mechanics are terrible/unforgivable. Storyline unengaging/boring. Graphics nice but repetative.

They failed at their strengths :/

If there were no haters the game would still be the lolfest it was pre patch.




Speak for yourself about the storyline. I think it's pretty **** good so far. I'm also sure it is far from finished. The game mechanics still need some tweaks, but terrible? Really? The UI.. yeah, the mechanics... not so much. Same stuff in most other MMO's. The big thing is the lack of an AH, but SE wanted to try something different. You don't break the mold by doing the same stuff everyone else does. It didn't work out, but i give them kudos for trying to bring us something fresh.
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#12 Dec 01 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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While you have all made very good points, and I totally understand where you're all coming from, i'ts just that I think were expecting a much better ffxiv at launch because we received a pretty great ffxi at launch. Maybe I just have alittle to much trust in se, I dunno. I guess I'm just optimistic.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:29pm by cheezer5000
#13 Dec 01 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:

Speak for yourself about the storyline. I think it's pretty **** good so far. I'm also sure it is far from finished. The game mechanics still need some tweaks, but terrible? Really? The UI.. yeah, the mechanics... not so much. Same stuff in most other MMO's. The big thing is the lack of an AH, but SE wanted to try something different. You don't break the mold by doing the same stuff everyone else does. It didn't work out, but i give them kudos for trying to bring us something fresh.



This is kinda the Godwins law of Final Fantasy but think back to the storyline of FFVII and compare it with this. True FF VII was groundbreaking (and I was twelve and easily amazed) but in terms of epicness we're in different leagues. "But this is an MMO!" I hear you cry. Well yes, I understand there needs to be more content that one linear storyline HOWEVER if we have to spend 99% of our game time not doing the main storyline it would be nice if the levequests etc. actuallty referenced or related to some 'bigger picture'

I just have zero immersion in this game whatsoever, it's a chore to play. It's a bad book - Iv'e started it so I want to finish it - but it's really not very good.

like I said, I really think they've failed at their strong suits and done a half **** job of the rest.

Sorry D:

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:30pm by Vindrax

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:32pm by Vindrax
#14 Dec 01 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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cheezer5000 wrote:
While you have all made very good points, and I totally understand where you're all coming from. I'ts just that I think were expecting a much better ffxiv at launch because we received a pretty great ffxi at launch. Maybe I just have alittle to much trust in se, I dunno. I guess I'm just optimistic.


FFXI wasn't really spectacular at launch either. But it's not about that really; it's more about things that FFXIV lacked at launch (/sea, a malibox/delivery system, chat input is too short and will clear out your text frequently, airships and chocobos) that make people wonder why FFXIV lacked things that were staples of not only FFXI, but nearly every MMORPG on the market.

EDIT: You can bet your *** that if Blizzard released a WoW 2 and it was missing mailboxes, an auction house, battlegrounds, instances, mounts, and /who, that WoW fans would be up in arms over it.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:31pm by Mikhalia
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#15 Dec 01 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah let me enjoy the game for what it will be a year from now as opposed to its current state
completely logical argument.
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#16 Dec 01 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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OMGItsABear wrote:
I rated you up for bringing up a good point.



I rated it down for once again bringing up the same point. Look, I'm on the XI launched bare for JP and we didn't get the same first year SE MMO experience they did... I think the problem is this is SE's second world wide multi-system MMO. The buisiness model worked last time... so why wouldn't it this time... obviously we as consumers have proven why, and they as a company are rushing as fast as they can to appologise to us in the way of correcting their errors. My hopes are slowly leaning away from highly optimistic to somewhat hopefull of a nearterm soluting to my personal grievances. However I am confident in the long run that it will be an amazing game just as XI was. The only difference is this time people want east mode AND have uber high overhyped expectations (both content and timeline, and by content I'm not talking near term more than just leves)

As to the OP, this has been brought up multiple times. Actually it even has 2 dedicated threads. One of which is actually quite informative.

Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
EDIT: You can bet your *** that if Blizzard released a WoW 2 and it was missing mailboxes, an auction house, battlegrounds, instances, mounts, and /who, that WoW fans would be up in arms over it.


I have to disagree, WoW has become the iMMO it can do no wrong and niether can Blizzard. I have plenty of intelligent friends who can properly convery their reasons for playing WoW longterm. However, I have even more aquaintences who can't do much more than say "because Blizzard is awesome" or "bexause it's WoW"... Blizzard did something the tobacco companies are more than likely very jealous of. They created an addictive product marketable to all ages, that has ruined (irresponisble) peoples lives... and doesn't have to pay reparations or whatever to tax payers world wide... all the while they get to advertise in every publication and visual medium. I don't like WoW, but I know why it's popular and I commend Blizzard for their genius. I just fear that WoW could be the end to innovation in MMORPGs if not MMOGs altogether. (same as casual gaming is doing to the console market, except for indie titles and a rare few maga-budget releases)

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:52pm by PerrinofSylph
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#17 Dec 01 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
cheezer5000 wrote:
While you have all made very good points, and I totally understand where you're all coming from. I'ts just that I think were expecting a much better ffxiv at launch because we received a pretty great ffxi at launch. Maybe I just have alittle to much trust in se, I dunno. I guess I'm just optimistic.


FFXI wasn't really spectacular at launch either. But it's not about that really; it's more about things that FFXIV lacked at launch (/sea, a malibox/delivery system, chat input is too short and will clear out your text frequently, airships and chocobos) that make people wonder why FFXIV lacked things that were staples of not only FFXI, but nearly every MMORPG on the market.

EDIT: You can bet your *** that if Blizzard released a WoW 2 and it was missing mailboxes, an auction house, battlegrounds, instances, mounts, and /who, that WoW fans would be up in arms over it.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:31pm by Mikhalia


You bet i would flame then to death!!!

It would be like launching wow2 and it has no pvp, no bosses, no istances, no mounts, no nothing lol(like this game Lmao)
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#18 Dec 01 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
Vindrax wrote:
Teneleven wrote:

Speak for yourself about the storyline. I think it's pretty **** good so far. I'm also sure it is far from finished. The game mechanics still need some tweaks, but terrible? Really? The UI.. yeah, the mechanics... not so much. Same stuff in most other MMO's. The big thing is the lack of an AH, but SE wanted to try something different. You don't break the mold by doing the same stuff everyone else does. It didn't work out, but i give them kudos for trying to bring us something fresh.



This is kinda the Godwins law of Final Fantasy but think back to the storyline of FFVII and compare it with this. True FF VII was groundbreaking (and I was twelve and easily amazed) but in terms of epicness we're in different leagues. "But this is an MMO!" I hear you cry. Well yes, I understand there needs to be more content that one linear storyline HOWEVER if we have to spend 99% of our game time not doing the main storyline it would be nice if the levequests etc. actuallty referenced or related to some 'bigger picture'

I just have zero immersion in this game whatsoever, it's a chore to play. It's a bad book - Iv'e started it so I want to finish it - but it's really not very good.

like I said, I really think they've failed at their strong suits and done a half **** job of the rest.

Sorry D:



Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:30pm by Vindrax

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:32pm by Vindrax


You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not even trying to bash you for it. We agree to disagree, so it's all good.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:52pm by Teneleven
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#19 Dec 01 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Default
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Vindrax wrote:
Teneleven wrote:

Speak for yourself about the storyline. I think it's pretty **** good so far. I'm also sure it is far from finished. The game mechanics still need some tweaks, but terrible? Really? The UI.. yeah, the mechanics... not so much. Same stuff in most other MMO's. The big thing is the lack of an AH, but SE wanted to try something different. You don't break the mold by doing the same stuff everyone else does. It didn't work out, but i give them kudos for trying to bring us something fresh.



This is kinda the Godwins law of Final Fantasy but think back to the storyline of FFVII and compare it with this. True FF VII was groundbreaking (and I was twelve and easily amazed) but in terms of epicness we're in different leagues. "But this is an MMO!" I hear you cry. Well yes, I understand there needs to be more content that one linear storyline HOWEVER if we have to spend 99% of our game time not doing the main storyline it would be nice if the levequests etc. actuallty referenced or related to some 'bigger picture'

I just have zero immersion in this game whatsoever, it's a chore to play. It's a bad book - Iv'e started it so I want to finish it - but it's really not very good.

like I said, I really think they've failed at their strong suits and done a half **** job of the rest.

Sorry D:

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:30pm by Vindrax

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:32pm by Vindrax


FFVII Was by no means a groundbreaking in the storyline department, and neither was the materia system, it was just an upgrade of the esper system in FFVI, It's graphics where at the time, and the implementation of CGI was epic too.

But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!
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#20 Dec 01 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate how the mention of VII in any positive light pulls people like you out of the woodwork.
I hate how it totally derails conversations.

Can nothing good be said about it?
It's a better game than XIV.
We can't have that opinion?
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#21Ostia, Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 5:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Any game is better than XIV, **** even FF2 is better, it makes you grind but hey it has content lol
#22 Dec 01 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Any game is better than XIV, **** even FF2 is better, it makes you grind but hey it has content lol


What is your problem? If you hate the game so much - get lost. Go troll somewhere else.
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#23 Dec 01 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Y'know, the haters sound awefully like addicts.

"I hate the object of my addiction!" Followed immediately by taking part in the addiction.

If you don't like it, no one will force you to play. If you aren't playing and don't intend to play, then why hang around here? What are you contributing, besides saying how bad you think it is.
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#24 Dec 01 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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So sorry if this has been brought up......but do none of you English players realize that you didn't play ffxi until a year after it was released. Can you imagine how much you would have hated ffxi if you were stuck leveling the base jobs for a year. DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON. And I'm sure that by the time of ps3 launch things will be just chipper.

Any other thoughts on this?


I'll be quite honest with you as I'm one of those folks who actually started at NA release - the game really was no picnic. Folks throw out comments like that as if FFXI was a smashing success at either launch when frankly, it wasn't. It still isn't compared to other MMOs who have subscriptions number in the millions (Not just WoW FYI). Its one saving grace is that it appeals to a very specific audience and can keep that audience through a combination of epic storytelling and carrot-on-stick goals.

There is a list floating around of what the patches cleaned up over the years, and frankly very little if any of it had anything to do with the complaints we have today for its successor(User Interface issues, massive lag in everything, Copypasta). In short - FFXI may have been a little more polished by the time it got to NA, but it was by no means a diamond in the rough and the FFXI of today looks a lot different from the XI of yesteryear that we are all remembering through rum goggles.

As I have said in other threads - there is probably only a handful of folks who actively "hate" on FFXIV. The rest of us are just in a state of resigned disappointment, hoping against hope that the "Miracle Patch" will be like a shower of gold, sprinkling our controllers and keyboards with a new level of epic adventure that will wash away all our bittersweet reminiscences of XI Jobs past, replacing them with new friends to stand with and new foes to defeat. HURRAH!!!!

/pour rum
#25 Dec 01 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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#26 Dec 01 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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It's so stupid.
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#27 Dec 01 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Default
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I don't see the point at all.
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#28 Dec 01 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I have to disagree with your deduction..

SE making 2 other games and movie has a much simpler reason, 7 had a lot of fans and SE wants to milk more money from that title.


Back to the topic,

this game was lacking even for beta on release. I'm sure if this was their first MMO, we would be a lot more forgiving. Having created FFXI, they should of learned many things, we all expected an improvement over the problems in FFXI, we'd expect the gameplay and interface to be at least as good as FFXI. But instead, it's like they got amnesia, we got less than the minimum expectation.

We all know the Dev's themselves have never played the game, their defense is no time. But many problems take 1 min of game play to figure out. But instead they go through months of beta, and months after retail to figure out and fix.

What SE needs to do is, make the DEV and sales group take a 1 month break from regular work. Have them play the game, grind it up. By doing this, I'm sure they could accomplish and fix more problems than they could in a year's time of beta testing.

I mean come on, no inventory sort on final retail release, seriously? I hope they fired whoever gave the game a go into production.

Graphics department did a great job! They're the only ones in the project that deserve a good bonus, too bad there won't be any.
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#29 Dec 01 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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also adding 3 (btw) games and a movie and several novelettes actually weakened the story making it unnecessarily convoluted and spurred on more rampant hatred than anything else

point in case "calling Sephiroth a mama's boy" even though he's nothing of the sort (in any publication)
most people are thinking of Kadaj ... who ... is Sephiroth?
See? Convolution.

It didn't "flesh out" anything. It was a series of fan services to milk more money and really made (me personally) ask about 10,000x the amount of questions I had about the original plot (which I only had 1 question that I answered for myself about 10 years later based solely on content in VII itself).

Carry on. =)
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#30 Dec 01 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Bozmo wrote:
Ostia wrote:
But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I have to disagree with your deduction..

SE making 2 other games and movie has a much simpler reason, 7 had a lot of fans and SE wants to milk more money from that title.


I gotta agree with this. Regardless of the quality of the story, fact is that FF7 was severely overrated in terms of fan base fanatical fervor in comparison to the rest of the series. I challenge you to name any character from any FF game that has had more cosplays of, or more screennames that are clones of or bastardizations of FFVII characters. Whether you loved it or loathed it, FF7 has a rabid fan base that could probably even give WoW a run for its money. If there was a runner up, it's probably FFX.

The spinoffs of FF7 and cameo appearances of its characters in games like Ehrgeiz and Final Fantasy Tactics (I'm not going to mention Kingdom Hearts) were attempts to capitalize on FF7's popularity.

It's the same reason that FFXIV was "Final Fantasy XIV" and not "Rapture". It's the same reason they kept the same racial appearance for that matter.

It's the same reason there are a bajillion Final Fantasy games (most of which have little to nothing in common beyond some basic elements) and nearly as many Dragon Quest and Mana games. Go ask 50 people to name the first Squaresoft/Square Enix title that comes to mind and I'd be surprised if five of them said something other than a Final Fantasy title. I could practically guarantee you that at least 10 would just say "Final Fantasy" without specifying a number.

It's all about marketing a product to an audience you already have, rather than trying to entice a new one. Is your average gamer more likely to pick up "Infinite Undiscovery", "The Last Remnant", or "Final Fantasy XIII", assuming they knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER about the reviews or the game itself? I'd wager 4 of 5 would go for the third for no other reason than because they've heard of the Final Fantasy brand.

And Square isn't the only one to do it either. Why do you think there are so many sequels to Halo? Call of Duty? Super Mario? Sonic the Hedgehog? It's much easier and much more profitable for a company to pop out a sequel to a game you already know and love (or just pop out a new game and slap an existing franchise tag on it) than to have to come up with a new title and hope it sells to people willing to give it a try.
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#31 Dec 01 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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cheezer5000 wrote:
So sorry if this has been brought up......but do none of you English players realize that you didn't play ffxi until a year after it was released. Can you imagine how much you would have hated ffxi if you were stuck leveling the base jobs for a year. DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON. And I'm sure that by the time of ps3 launch things will be just chipper.

Any other thoughts on this?


I think that one of the major frustrations the community had was that intially the Beta client and release client were exactly the same and that no improvements had been made. Most of the testers took the role seriously and provided square with a wealth of feedback and bug reports. Yes I know a lot of people also defended SE and thought that SE had a "different" client they were testing and would release at launch

When the exact same product was offered at release, it felt like we had been cheated in some way, or that they had not listened and acted on lots of very sensible feedback. Coupled with the fact that no additional content was added, yes we could explore areas that were locked during beta, but it was the same leve's, the same bugs, the same clumsy UI etc.

We know it will get better, the point is given 5 years of development time they have failed to make a game that is on par with the predecessor. Yes it looks 10 times better and it has tons of potential, but sadly at this point in time it is just that, potential and not kinetic ^^

Things are already getting better. The november patch was a huge help. IMO party SP needs addressing, but they have made massive improvements to the UI and solo SP gain.

December patch will bring even more content, more fixes and the NMs appear to be our first endgame type of activity. All this is great, but let's be realistic, there is still much more that needs to be done





Edited, Dec 1st 2010 8:03pm by MisterGaribaldi
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#32 Dec 01 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree 100%.

I also played Beta and told all my friends "it looks great, but its far from feeling like a finished product"

I feel bad I slapped my seal of approval on the game, assuming the retail product would be ... even more ahead of what we have now after Nov 25. I assumed the Beta was a "test" and that somewhere behind the curtain was the real Wizard of Oz waiting to be unleashed on the world. Most of those friends quit. Good thing they don't hold a grudge and I didn't promise them a warranty. :)

I like the game (I'll say again) but I agree with what you're saying.
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#33 Dec 01 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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cheezer5000 wrote:
While you have all made very good points, and I totally understand where you're all coming from, i'ts just that I think were expecting a much better ffxiv at launch because we received a pretty great ffxi at launch. Maybe I just have alittle to much trust in se, I dunno. I guess I'm just optimistic.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 5:29pm by cheezer5000


Nothing at all wrong with being optimistic. I think the point is that we were all there at one time or another, but somewhere along the way it faded to a glimmer of hope and then fizzled out. The game will get better as time goes on, this is true. NA players got XI a year after launch, this is also true. The issue is that this game, their second MMO after quite a while of experience, pales in comparison to what they put out 8 years ago. FFXIV release easily should have been better than FFXI at NA release. Before a handful of days ago it was lacking the most basic features that were implemented into XI years ago.

It's just a matter of what you expect from a product. As a customer you would expect a sequel (not in that sense) to improve everytime another is released. Lately (yes, I'm looking at you XIII) it's been declining and people don't want to invest in that. As a fan you want to support it and you want it to do well.

I guess it all comes down to how patient you are and if you lean toward logic or faith. Logic tells you that 6 years is entirely too long for a game to be released in this state even post patch. Faith tells you that it can be fixed and surpass your expectations in 6 months. I played since alpha so my faith ticker expired long ago. On to other things.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#34 Dec 01 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
also adding 3 (btw) games and a movie and several novelettes actually weakened the story making it unnecessarily convoluted and spurred on more rampant hatred than anything else

point in case "calling Sephiroth a mama's boy" even though he's nothing of the sort (in any publication)
most people are thinking of Kadaj ... who ... is Sephiroth?
See? Convolution.

It didn't "flesh out" anything. It was a series of fan services to milk more money and really made (me personally) ask about 10,000x the amount of questions I had about the original plot (which I only had 1 question that I answered for myself about 10 years later based solely on content in VII itself).

Carry on. =)


They where calling him a mama's boy's well before any sequel/prequel/movie anyways, and they did flesh out the story, again they dint do a masterful job of it, but they did add a lot more to the FFVII Lore. Was vicent's game ******* confusing ? Yeah, but did crisis core answered and flesh out the background story of FFVII ? No doubt :)

And really confusing kadaj with sephiroth ? Lmao!

Btw: what question toke you 10 years to answer ?
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#35 Dec 01 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So sorry if this has been brought up......but do none of you English players realize that you didn't play ffxi until a year after it was released. Can you imagine how much you would have hated ffxi if you were stuck leveling the base jobs for a year. DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON. And I'm sure that by the time of ps3 launch things will be just chipper.


Oh I'm terribly sorry. I didn't realize it was too much to expect a game company to release a finished and fairly polished product. Silly me.
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Pandimonium server - Rank 10 - Bastok

Zaela Rdm -- 35, Alchemy 45 -- Forced into retirement because I didn't have the right kind of credit card. Hope it was worth 18 bucks a month, SE.

#36 Dec 01 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Bozmo wrote:
Ostia wrote:
But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I have to disagree with your deduction..

SE making 2 other games and movie has a much simpler reason, 7 had a lot of fans and SE wants to milk more money from that title.


I gotta agree with this. Regardless of the quality of the story, fact is that FF7 was severely overrated in terms of fan base fanatical fervor in comparison to the rest of the series. I challenge you to name any character from any FF game that has had more cosplays of, or more screennames that are clones of or bastardizations of FFVII characters. Whether you loved it or loathed it, FF7 has a rabid fan base that could probably even give WoW a run for its money. If there was a runner up, it's probably FFX.

The spinoffs of FF7 and cameo appearances of its characters in games like Ehrgeiz and Final Fantasy Tactics (I'm not going to mention Kingdom Hearts) were attempts to capitalize on FF7's popularity.

It's the same reason that FFXIV was "Final Fantasy XIV" and not "Rapture". It's the same reason they kept the same racial appearance for that matter.

It's the same reason there are a bajillion Final Fantasy games (most of which have little to nothing in common beyond some basic elements) and nearly as many Dragon Quest and Mana games. Go ask 50 people to name the first Squaresoft/Square Enix title that comes to mind and I'd be surprised if five of them said something other than a Final Fantasy title. I could practically guarantee you that at least 10 would just say "Final Fantasy" without specifying a number.

It's all about marketing a product to an audience you already have, rather than trying to entice a new one. Is your average gamer more likely to pick up "Infinite Undiscovery", "The Last Remnant", or "Final Fantasy XIII", assuming they knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER about the reviews or the game itself? I'd wager 4 of 5 would go for the third for no other reason than because they've heard of the Final Fantasy brand.

And Square isn't the only one to do it either. Why do you think there are so many sequels to Halo? Call of Duty? Super Mario? Sonic the Hedgehog? It's much easier and much more profitable for a company to pop out a sequel to a game you already know and love (or just pop out a new game and slap an existing franchise tag on it) than to have to come up with a new title and hope it sells to people willing to give it a try.


And that's where they will sink, unless they get a grip and stop putting Final Fantasy on any half *** game they come up with, and i dont even know why you mentioned FFT, because that game on it's own would have sold the same amount, and it would have been just as good with out cloud in it.

Also i never said they developed those games out of their love, i said they fleshed out the storyline, and they did.

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#37 Dec 01 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
FFVII Was by no means a groundbreaking in the storyline department, and neither was the materia system, it was just an upgrade of the esper system in FFVI, It's graphics where at the time, and the implementation of CGI was epic too.

But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I wouldn't say "by no means" groundbreaking. As an RPG, it was one of the first (if not THE first) to place a dark and mature spin on both the protagonists and the world. As for the materia system, it was a significant upgrade to the already popular esper system that added a previously unavailable level of customization, horizontal progression, and limitation. So revolutionary? Not really. But significant ground was definitely broken.

As for the -3- games and the movie, they weren't really needed, just highly desired. That's pretty much the same with any popular story/game-- people will want to further flesh out the characters and world, even if the original does so more or less sufficiently. It's never sufficient enough for a fan. That's where fanfics and the like come from.

They could easily profit off of new FFVII titles if they really wanted to milk it further.

As for being overrated, the question is "overrated by who?" The game is rated very highly by most players. Most people who played the game would rate it a 10, or at least a 9. Most people seem to be referring to a small portion of the fanbase who act like the game should get a 20/10 when they say it's overrated. Regardless, the ratings don't show a cluster of loyal fans, but a general consensus of a high quality game.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#38 Dec 01 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
cheezer5000 wrote:
DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON.
Yes, but I'm not playing a game just because it will get better later. If it sucks now, I'm not playing it, hence why... I'm not playing it.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#39 Dec 01 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Bozmo wrote:
Ostia wrote:
But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I have to disagree with your deduction..

SE making 2 other games and movie has a much simpler reason, 7 had a lot of fans and SE wants to milk more money from that title.


Back to the topic,

this game was lacking even for beta on release. I'm sure if this was their first MMO, we would be a lot more forgiving. Having created FFXI, they should of learned many things, we all expected an improvement over the problems in FFXI, we'd expect the gameplay and interface to be at least as good as FFXI. But instead, it's like they got amnesia, we got less than the minimum expectation.

We all know the Dev's themselves have never played the game, their defense is no time. But many problems take 1 min of game play to figure out. But instead they go through months of beta, and months after retail to figure out and fix.

What SE needs to do is, make the DEV and sales group take a 1 month break from regular work. Have them play the game, grind it up. By doing this, I'm sure they could accomplish and fix more problems than they could in a year's time of beta testing.

I mean come on, no inventory sort on final retail release, seriously? I hope they fired whoever gave the game a go into production.

Graphics department did a great job! They're the only ones in the project that deserve a good bonus, too bad there won't be any.


I just wanna touch what you said on devs playing the game, based on some past experience

Champions Online, game had a bad launch, for many reasons I wont get into(but i chalk alot of it up to spoiled MMO player syndrome)

However, from launch, ALL the devs played the game. They even have sessions where they go in and pvp with the players, among many many other things.

WHat this has accomplished, is an amazing improvement in the game overall in the course of over a year.



And before anyone gets into how it failed, its going f2p cuz itl make even more money, the game has had rising subs nonstop for the last year....



Back to 14, if the devs would play, itd get alot better as they would see the issues first hand and know how to tackle them, and what to tackle.
Now i enjoy this game immensely, i have since day 1, but there is always, and i mean ALWAYS room for improvement.


no game launched perfect, and anyone who says otherwise isnt living in reality
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#40 Dec 01 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
FFVII Was by no means a groundbreaking in the storyline department, and neither was the materia system, it was just an upgrade of the esper system in FFVI, It's graphics where at the time, and the implementation of CGI was epic too.

But storyline ? Really ? a game that has needed 2 other games and a movie to flesh the story out ? Lmao!


I wouldn't say "by no means" groundbreaking. As an RPG, it was one of the first (if not THE first) to place a dark and mature spin on both the protagonists and the world. As for the materia system, it was a significant upgrade to the already popular esper system that added a previously unavailable level of customization, horizontal progression, and limitation. So revolutionary? Not really. But significant ground was definitely broken.

As for the -3- games and the movie, they weren't really needed, just highly desired. That's pretty much the same with any popular story/game-- people will want to further flesh out the characters and world, even if the original does so more or less sufficiently. It's never sufficient enough for a fan. That's where fanfics and the like come from.

They could easily profit off of new FFVII titles if they really wanted to milk it further.

As for being overrated, the question is "overrated by who?" The game is rated very highly by most players. Most people who played the game would rate it a 10, or at least a 9. Most people seem to be referring to a small portion of the fanbase who act like the game should get a 20/10 when they say it's overrated. Regardless, the ratings don't show a cluster of loyal fans, but a general consensus of a high quality game.


From the top of my head i would say FFVI placed a dark spin and a way more mature spin in the RPG Genre, another game from the top of my head would be Ogre battle Tactics, another one would be Wild Arms. As for it being overrated, who mentioned it was overrated ? IMO it's not a better game than Xenogears for example in any aspect, but i dont belive is a 7/10 either.
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#41 Dec 01 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Default
3 posts
ridiculous, the way the game is set up you need a LOT of time to work on your character. you dont just level one class to rank 50. you have to craft bring up your actual level, allot those points make yourself stronger stronger better better, thats the point yeah? also you dont just have a class this game is set up where there are no definant classes, you mix and match the abilities to make your ultimate class what you would want to be, you have to at least level all most all jobs to level 20 to work towards their guild point traits, fastcast/movementspeed+/shield time etc etc.

AND in order to make this all around character it takes TIME. what the **** kind of content do you want right away with the initial release of the game. yes there isnt a ton of content, but what they have out now is enough to waste my days completely. it takes a lot of time working up crafts to gear yourself, repair yourself, level multiple jobs for abilities, gather items, do daily leves (if you are traveling back and forth to check which ones have which guild rewards etc) this game HAS content. just give it a break and a bit of time. and slow down to the pace of the game.its going to be around a while, that is unless there is an apocalypse sometime soon.

so chill out haters, work on your character, get stronger, get more points to allot, make yourself all around better. start seeing the game for what it is instead of what you want it or expect it to be. from one that has had a change in perspective, i KNOW that initially the way i thought the game worked battle mechanics etc etc i hated it, but as i figured out how to work it...its difficult, but once you get it FUN.

since were all throwing around perspectives here...boogaly enjoy mine
#42 Dec 01 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Kachi wrote:
As for being overrated, the question is "overrated by who?" The game is rated very highly by most players. Most people who played the game would rate it a 10, or at least a 9. Most people seem to be referring to a small portion of the fanbase who act like the game should get a 20/10 when they say it's overrated. Regardless, the ratings don't show a cluster of loyal fans, but a general consensus of a high quality game.


You agree that a portion of the fanbase "act like the game should get a 20/10". Let's start there.

Name a FF game that has MORE fans who would rate it "20/10" than FFVII has. If you can't, then FFVII is the "most overrated". As in "In terms of the amount of players who think the game was better than it really was, FFVII has more of these types of fans than any other FF game".

In terms of GameFAQ's "Character Battles", out of 8 Character Battles, one Battle Royale, and one Tournament of Champions, Cloud has appeared in the top two four times. Sephiroth twice (Three if you count the Villain-only battle). The only character who has won or came in second more frequently is Link. No FF character from any FF game other than FFVII has made it into the top four. Squall and Yuna made it into the final 8 once each.

That is how I define "overrated". I never said it was a bad game; my exact words were "FF7 was severely overrated in terms of fan base fanatical fervor in comparison to the rest of the series." and I stand by them, unless you can name a FF title that was more overrated than FF7 and provide some data to support it.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 11:20pm by Mikhalia
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#43 Dec 01 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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7,106 posts
Over-rated as a game on its own objective merits, especially when viewed by today's standards? Sure.

Over-rated as the experience it was at the time of its release? I honestly don't think so. I worked at a game store when FFVII was released. There was a lot of excitement about the game, it was perceived as ground-breaking, and people really, really liked it. It was one of the first RPG's in 3d (in terms of being polygon-based), it had far higher production values than anything at the time, it had far more rendered scenes than anything else (of any genre) at the time, and all of those technological firsts combined with a dark, complex, and engaging story created a level of immersion and investment that a clear majority of RPG players had never experienced before. And, thanks to the giant advertising campaign that came with the game (which dwarfed anything done previously for an RPG release), it was also the first RPG, ever, for a lot of new players who were brought to the genre by that game.

All of that is why FFVII remains so beloved. And, in my mind, those are perfectly legitimate reasons. FFVII provided an experience for a lot of people that no other RPG has ever matched (and, probably, that no RPG ever could). A game is an experience and a memory as much as it is a bunch of code on a shiny disk, and FFVII was an experience for the genre that is hard to really grasp if it didn't resonate for you the way it did for so many others.

And, this is all coming from someone who has always preferred FFVI (III at the time).
#44 Dec 01 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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89 posts
cheezer5000 wrote:
DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS GAME IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER AS TIME GOES ON. And I'm sure that by the time of ps3 launch things will be just chipper.

Any other thoughts on this?


Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?
In your opinion the game is "GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER" but in fact the game sucks right now. It may become better, even a lot better just as well as the servers may be shut down next Monday or even tonight. Personally I am not even sure there is going to be the PS3 launch. I really hope Square won't drop this ball but in my opinion all signs are against it. Still we both can have our different opinions and other people even might have opinions of their own, different from either of ours.
#45 Dec 01 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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291 posts
Ostia:

Most disagreements I have on forums are usually due to differences in definition rather than opinion.

You're saying they fleshed out the world and I say I disagree. Fleshing out a world to me means taking something established in the core (VII) and expanding on it. It does not (to me) mean taking an iconic character and throwing some ridiculous and contrived plot at him that's superfluous to everything built in the core. It does mean taking pieces of the core that were weak or vague and make them stronger. I'll give you two examples.

Not fleshing out (to me): Vincent vs Deep Groud SOLDIER that we never heard of before. The plot has absolutely no relevance to anything that was established in VII. You could take that game away and nothing you know about VII (itself) would change.

Fleshed out: They fully explore Vincent's past with the Turks. They fully explore Vincent's relationship with Lucretia. Lucretia's relationship with Hojo.

The game did skirt around much of what I am suggesting, but it didn't really ADD anything we didn't already know. The things it did add that we didn't know are ridiculous villains and Genesis who totally negates the purpose of "Sephiroth." Sephiroth didn't need a prototype. It takes away from him symbolically. Genesis all in all really does drive me into a "fanboy rage" because he's the epitome of what's terrible about marketing and its impact on Square Enix.

I could do this comparison for all the games, but I really don't need to. The only thing Dirge added to VII is a better understanding and explanation of Vincent's ability to transform - which I give props to - but you have to admit that its very convoluted and (maybe it wasn't localized very well but...) the entire Omega Materia/Weapon (is that what it was called?) is a totally contrived plot device of no real consequence. This game could have been a totally different game just changing the names (character models) and locations. It may have even been better received instead of fanboy rage - but they were selling it to said fans just to make money.

I guess I admit each addition may add some minor, minor detail you didn't know and IS relevant (Vincent's transformation is the only thing I can really think of though because nothing happened in Crisis Core - except retarded nonsense - that wasn't clear to me in VII) but I don't feel like they are contributing to the story of VII. Just making up new junk and slapping VII characters in it to make money.

That's my opinion, though. Feel free to tell me if you 100% disagree.

-----

Also the one thing I didn't understand about VII (in 1998) was what the heck JENOVA was and what its purpose was. I knew it was an alien that they initially thought was a Cetra, but aside from that ... and that its DNA did something drastic to Sephiroth ... I didn't really understand the true purpose of this ?character? but replaying it when I was older solved the mystery for me.


-----

An aside, before Crisis Core (and that Nibelheim anime - I forget the name) was ever released, I was telling my friends the true events of Nibelheim incident where Zack fails and Cloud saves Tifa and "defeats" (stalls) Sephiroth. Most of my friends thought I was on drugs, but the evidence (though confusing) is all in FFVII. I really liked that about VII - that (because of Cloud's personality disorder) the game is a tad unclear and needs to be sorted out once you understand what happened to Cloud. I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but I was really proud of myself for understanding the Nibelheim incident - and I was a little **** hurt they released 2-3 pieces of media that went into explicit detail on what happened.

Apparently the masses needed further clarification? lol - I know all my friends did. My point is I spent a lot of time thinking about everything that happens and working out a lot of the underlying story that isn't clear on a quick run through of the game. That JENOVA question bothered me for a long time. Well after Advent Children even.
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#46 Dec 02 2010 at 2:52 AM Rating: Good
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The story line is fine for a fledgling game, when you evnetually get to it.

My only complaint about the story line is that ubsurd minigame they have called Parlay.. It drives me nuts to have to do this every time i get a new story line because i epic fail like 8 times in a row and often have to replay the quest from scratch because of chain parlay fails.

But the Cutscenes are good and the graphics are on par with FFXI.

Al together its a good game but If only there was more to do the leve quests and endless crafting and sp grinding.

I bet if there was even just a few quests or if they had made you ahve to do quests to unlock your bag space at least then players would have been more engaged and felt more attached to their accounts and not just cancel and or rage quit.

The forums might even be free of trolls like me who are always negative but it seems each new patch fixes 10 things then introduces a new bug that for whatever reason tons of people jump all over to spew new hate and rants.

I happen to like playing and crafting is finally paying off but it took alot of effort and a great LS to help me out.

If your not having fun try a new ls is my advice. And try to stay away from the forums when your angry as I found out its not good for you.

edit: from spelling errors

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 3:55am by cornyboob

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 4:21am by cornyboob
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#47 Dec 02 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Default
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cornyboob wrote:
Parlay

Everybody laugh at the loser who doesn't solve his problems through violence!

Ha ha!
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#48 Dec 02 2010 at 3:51 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Caesura wrote:
Over-rated as a game on its own objective merits, especially when viewed by today's standards? Sure.

Over-rated as the experience it was at the time of its release? I honestly don't think so. I worked at a game store when FFVII was released. There was a lot of excitement about the game, it was perceived as ground-breaking, and people really, really liked it. It was one of the first RPG's in 3d (in terms of being polygon-based), it had far higher production values than anything at the time, it had far more rendered scenes than anything else (of any genre) at the time, and all of those technological firsts combined with a dark, complex, and engaging story created a level of immersion and investment that a clear majority of RPG players had never experienced before. And, thanks to the giant advertising campaign that came with the game (which dwarfed anything done previously for an RPG release), it was also the first RPG, ever, for a lot of new players who were brought to the genre by that game.

All of that is why FFVII remains so beloved. And, in my mind, those are perfectly legitimate reasons. FFVII provided an experience for a lot of people that no other RPG has ever matched (and, probably, that no RPG ever could). A game is an experience and a memory as much as it is a bunch of code on a shiny disk, and FFVII was an experience for the genre that is hard to really grasp if it didn't resonate for you the way it did for so many others.

And, this is all coming from someone who has always preferred FFVI (III at the time).


I agree with a few of your point's and totally disagree with others, was FFVII ahead of it's time on graphics ? and CGI ? No doubt, did SE masterfully advertise the game ? **** Yeah! Was the story complex and engaging ... This is where my difference begins, FFVII had a good storyline, but a complex and engaging one ? Nope, nothing leaps and bounds outside of what was already done, or what was being done at the time, the game started strong, i loved midgar and leaving it and w/e, but once you got to costa del sol, the game became less engaging, and more, go to X follow sephiroth's clone, then go to Y do the same, then go to Z and repeat, the game mechanics where improvement's of mechanics already in place in FFVI, The limit system was in FFVI, they just improved it(and props for that) the materia system, is an improved system of the esper system in FFVI.

Did FFVII introduced a lot of people to the genre ? Yes it did no doubt, but so would have done so any other game in it's shoe's, If they had released for example Xenogears(Considering that most people hate it for dics 2 and that only happened because squared pulled resources from the xeno team to finish FFVII) instead of FFVII as their flagship ****** for the PSX we wont be having this conversation, since xenogears( is the best game out of the two, in any category, more so in the storyline department wish to me atleast is what make's a good RPG.

To me FFVII was a good game that was delivered at the right time, considering most of us are biased based upon what game we played first, for an example to me EQOA is the best MMORPG i have played based on the fond memories i had with it, and the sense of newness(Made up word?) i had at the time, and even i can say FFXIV is better than that game, but it dosent do the same for me, another example would be FFX, the first FF for the Ps2 era, many people love that game to death, to me it was a great game, but it was so meh! at the same time lol

Either way, to me FFVII is an epic game, just not "The" Rpg of all times hands down, in all perspectives.
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#49 Dec 02 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Kachi wrote:
As for being overrated, the question is "overrated by who?" The game is rated very highly by most players. Most people who played the game would rate it a 10, or at least a 9. Most people seem to be referring to a small portion of the fanbase who act like the game should get a 20/10 when they say it's overrated. Regardless, the ratings don't show a cluster of loyal fans, but a general consensus of a high quality game.


You agree that a portion of the fanbase "act like the game should get a 20/10". Let's start there.

Name a FF game that has MORE fans who would rate it "20/10" than FFVII has. If you can't, then FFVII is the "most overrated". As in "In terms of the amount of players who think the game was better than it really was, FFVII has more of these types of fans than any other FF game".

In terms of GameFAQ's "Character Battles", out of 8 Character Battles, one Battle Royale, and one Tournament of Champions, Cloud has appeared in the top two four times. Sephiroth twice (Three if you count the Villain-only battle). The only character who has won or came in second more frequently is Link. No FF character from any FF game other than FFVII has made it into the top four. Squall and Yuna made it into the final 8 once each.

That is how I define "overrated". I never said it was a bad game; my exact words were "FF7 was severely overrated in terms of fan base fanatical fervor in comparison to the rest of the series." and I stand by them, unless you can name a FF title that was more overrated than FF7 and provide some data to support it.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 11:20pm by Mikhalia


^^ Agree totally, and in some way that's where i started to see the game for what it really was, because at the time, i was really impress with shiny graphics, then after really playing some other Rpg's and expanding my library, i realized that for example: Sephiroth was not the badass villain everybody is out to make him, sure he was cool looking and had musamune, but in the Badass department he was really Overrated, Prince luca from suikoden II was a really badass villain, even kefka had more evil deeds under his belt than sephiroth, and he was a clown <.<

Btw all tifa is, was and will always be, is eye candy, Aerith FTW!
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MUTED
#50 Dec 02 2010 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Ostia:

Most disagreements I have on forums are usually due to differences in definition rather than opinion.

You're saying they fleshed out the world and I say I disagree. Fleshing out a world to me means taking something established in the core (VII) and expanding on it. It does not (to me) mean taking an iconic character and throwing some ridiculous and contrived plot at him that's superfluous to everything built in the core. It does mean taking pieces of the core that were weak or vague and make them stronger. I'll give you two examples.

Not fleshing out (to me): Vincent vs Deep Groud SOLDIER that we never heard of before. The plot has absolutely no relevance to anything that was established in VII. You could take that game away and nothing you know about VII (itself) would change.

Fleshed out: They fully explore Vincent's past with the Turks. They fully explore Vincent's relationship with Lucretia. Lucretia's relationship with Hojo.

The game did skirt around much of what I am suggesting, but it didn't really ADD anything we didn't already know. The things it did add that we didn't know are ridiculous villains and Genesis who totally negates the purpose of "Sephiroth." Sephiroth didn't need a prototype. It takes away from him symbolically. Genesis all in all really does drive me into a "fanboy rage" because he's the epitome of what's terrible about marketing and its impact on Square Enix.

I could do this comparison for all the games, but I really don't need to. The only thing Dirge added to VII is a better understanding and explanation of Vincent's ability to transform - which I give props to - but you have to admit that its very convoluted and (maybe it wasn't localized very well but...) the entire Omega Materia/Weapon (is that what it was called?) is a totally contrived plot device of no real consequence. This game could have been a totally different game just changing the names (character models) and locations. It may have even been better received instead of fanboy rage - but they were selling it to said fans just to make money.

I guess I admit each addition may add some minor, minor detail you didn't know and IS relevant (Vincent's transformation is the only thing I can really think of though because nothing happened in Crisis Core - except retarded nonsense - that wasn't clear to me in VII) but I don't feel like they are contributing to the story of VII. Just making up new junk and slapping VII characters in it to make money.

That's my opinion, though. Feel free to tell me if you 100% disagree.

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Also the one thing I didn't understand about VII (in 1998) was what the heck JENOVA was and what its purpose was. I knew it was an alien that they initially thought was a Cetra, but aside from that ... and that its DNA did something drastic to Sephiroth ... I didn't really understand the true purpose of this ?character? but replaying it when I was older solved the mystery for me.


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An aside, before Crisis Core (and that Nibelheim anime - I forget the name) was ever released, I was telling my friends the true events of Nibelheim incident where Zack fails and Cloud saves Tifa and "defeats" (stalls) Sephiroth. Most of my friends thought I was on drugs, but the evidence (though confusing) is all in FFVII. I really liked that about VII - that (because of Cloud's personality disorder) the game is a tad unclear and needs to be sorted out once you understand what happened to Cloud. I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but I was really proud of myself for understanding the Nibelheim incident - and I was a little **** hurt they released 2-3 pieces of media that went into explicit detail on what happened.

Apparently the masses needed further clarification? lol - I know all my friends did. My point is I spent a lot of time thinking about everything that happens and working out a lot of the underlying story that isn't clear on a quick run through of the game. That JENOVA question bothered me for a long time. Well after Advent Children even.


Yes dirge or cerebeus was a ****** game, but crisis core was an awesome game, again both games did flesh out some aspects of the original plot, and in cerebeus case added a lot more of WTF than Ohh thats what that was sense lol

In any case in my opinion crisis core did flesh out a lot of the story, like the war with wutai, the origins of sephiroth, who the **** zack was, the relationship that zack had with aerith, aerith's youth and relationship with tseng etc etc, those where missing in FFVII, if you did the subquest to find out who zack was in FFVII all you got out of it was that he was a soldier, that got gunned down for carrying cloud around, as to the why and how it happened and how did it get to that point, nothing is mentioned in FFVII.
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MUTED
#51 Dec 02 2010 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
32 posts
Please stop talking about FFVII, I'm trying to read up on the state of FFXIV and all i hear are people discussing old tired topics
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