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I finally concedeFollow

#1 Dec 01 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Today I had to make a decision that I have long been resisting. I moved my retainer out of the tanners ward and, against better judgment, have placed in the battlecraft ward.

I really did not want to do this, as I think the system could work; unfortunately, people are people, and we cannot change that. My gear is reasonably priced, and my personal bazaar sells consistently when placed in a populated area. Yet my retainer, selling the same goods for the same price, never sells anything. I have few options left but to place my retainer in the incorrect ward to maximize traffic and exposure.

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm pretty bummed out. Yes, something like this can bum me out. I really wanted it to work as intended.

I concede.

#2 Dec 01 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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What server are you on? oh and what city? because on Besaid I've noticed the ward's have really been being used correctly and it makes them both easy to navigate and almost quick to use.

Though alot of factors might come into play here. Perhaps the 'customer' base you are selling to don't frequent the wards? in that case it might be a good idea to keep selling it on your person. Maybe its the city? I know if want anything metal I head to LL since it has the Armorer and Blacksmith guilds. and Ul'dah is filled to the brim with experienced weavers so its the place to go for cloth gear.

So don't give up on the system, it works! it might not always sell your items super fast...but it works.
#3 Dec 01 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm rating you up for this because I really think you have sound reasoning. Although I have sold a fair amount of ores and what-not in the Ironmongers Ward, I too feel that I would be getting much better results in battlecraft and am saddened by that. Here's hoping a search function will help =/
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#4 Dec 01 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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XXCyniCXX wrote:
Today I had to make a decision that I have long been resisting. I moved my retainer out of the tanners ward and, against better judgment, have placed in the battlecraft ward.

I really did not want to do this, as I think the system could work; unfortunately, people are people, and we cannot change that. My gear is reasonably priced, and my personal bazaar sells consistently when placed in a populated area. Yet my retainer, selling the same goods for the same price, never sells anything. I have few options left but to place my retainer in the incorrect ward to maximize traffic and exposure.

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm pretty bummed out. Yes, something like this can bum me out. I really wanted it to work as intended.

I concede.



I won't give in to temptation yet, but I can say this. Right after the last ward crash I got a stall in battlecraft and dropped my girl in there with 2 harpoons and 8 misc crafting pieces. 24 hours later I came around to check on her and everything was sold. She'd had more than 1/2 of that other stuff on her for days if not weeks. Sadly the OP is correct, even junk sells in battlecraft

I still won't put her in there unless she has a couple decent weapons to sell. When its materials I drop her in tradescraft if its a mess of stuff and nothing that fits any one category.

-Teeg
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#5 Dec 01 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I do feel your pain. I shouldn't have to go to another website, out of game, to find an item I need. I presently use my Retainer as a bank only, but have been giving quite a bit of thought as to what I am going to do with extra retainers. A search feature is definitely needed and coming in December as per SE. Here's hoping ! :)
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#6 Dec 01 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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SideCH wrote:
What server are you on? oh and what city? because on Besaid I've noticed the ward's have really been being used correctly and it makes them both easy to navigate and almost quick to use.

Though alot of factors might come into play here. Perhaps the 'customer' base you are selling to don't frequent the wards? in that case it might be a good idea to keep selling it on your person. Maybe its the city? I know if want anything metal I head to LL since it has the Armorer and Blacksmith guilds. and Ul'dah is filled to the brim with experienced weavers so its the place to go for cloth gear.

So don't give up on the system, it works! it might not always sell your items super fast...but it works.


im on beseid too and i just dont see them being used correctly

30% are in the battlecraft ward
30% are in the fieldcraft ward
30% are in the tradecraft ward
10% are spread out in the correct wards


i think the most commonly correctly used ward of all of them, is actualy the wood ward in gridania, and the cloth ward in uldah, other then that, people put their retainers in the main 3 wards with everyone else


granted....stuff sells so much quicker in the correct wards cuz you stand out when you have the correct items and alot of people go their first....
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#7 Dec 01 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's just it, isn't it? People will be people. SE fights tooth and nail against human behavior and keeps falling short. Oh well.
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#8 Dec 01 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I actually never browse through Battle Craft because of too many retainers. I am probably the rare one that actually looking for parts/ingredients at Tanner/Cloth/Tailor/Hunter/Wood/Tinker/Chemical...etc.
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#9 Dec 01 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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I never go to the first three overcrowded wards anymore. Though if I need mats or materials I will visit the other 17 or so wards.

To the people buying stuff from the first three wards - shame on you for wasting your time as well as others time. If everyone just refused to buy junk from there, we wouldn't have this problem.

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#10 Dec 01 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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tylerbee wrote:
I never go to the first three overcrowded wards anymore. Though if I need mats or materials I will visit the other 17 or so wards.

To the people buying stuff from the first three wards - shame on you for wasting your time as well as others time. If everyone just refused to buy junk from there, we wouldn't have this problem.




If SE would give us the auction house format an overwhelming number of players want we wouldn't have this problem.

-Teeg
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#11 Dec 01 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I too have always been using the correct wards and it would take days and days to sell anything, even after drastically dropping the price (we're talking 5k gil for Dodoskin gear)

Then one day I had more weapons to sell than anything else so I reluctantly set up a stand in the Battlecraft ward. A few hours later almost my entire inventory sold, including armor, hats, gloves, raw ingredients, crafting materals, etc.

It bothers me because it doesn't make sense. But it is what it is. Hopefully when the search function is added people will disperse among the appropriate wards. In the meantime I can just do my part and only buy goods that are listed in the appropriate ward.
#12 Dec 01 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Yet my retainer, selling the same goods for the same price, never sells anything.


This doesn't surprise me in the least.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been in the wards. I go there only as a last resort.
Everything I've bought or sold has been through PC Bazaars.

Honestly,when I'm in the wards I feel like I'm going to go nuts.It's like having to turn over
stones one at a time to find the prize.Just plain stupid.

I also took note the few times I was in a ward that I was alone except for the retainers.
What's that tell ya,lol.
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#13 Dec 01 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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this is definately a problem on Bodhum server. i had a surpluss of cotton cloth the other night so decided to make some cotton trousers, cheap and easy for a modest profit even if they sell slowly. Ul'dah is the financial center of Bodhum as on many other servers so i go to move my retainer to the pants ward. there wasnt a single retainer in the entire ward. so against better judgement and condisering the circumstances i went to the battlecraft ward too... sad day.
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#14 Dec 01 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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Golophei wrote:
I actually never browse through Battle Craft because of too many retainers. I am probably the rare one that actually looking for parts/ingredients at Tanner/Cloth/Tailor/Hunter/Wood/Tinker/Chemical...etc.



Agree. I stay way away from battlecraft ward. That place is a joke.
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#15 Dec 01 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Teegotaru wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
I never go to the first three overcrowded wards anymore. Though if I need mats or materials I will visit the other 17 or so wards.

To the people buying stuff from the first three wards - shame on you for wasting your time as well as others time. If everyone just refused to buy junk from there, we wouldn't have this problem.




If SE would give us the auction house format an overwhelming number of players want we wouldn't have this problem.

-Teeg



Actually, if people used that **** system that is there, we wouldn't have this problem!

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:12pm by Mhantra
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#16 Dec 01 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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don't give up.

Use yg if you don't, use pro. Keep the dream alive.

There are people out there like me who actually go to the right ward PRAYING to see what i'm looking for. Don't give up ; ; We're all relying on you!
#17 Dec 01 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Mhantra wrote:
Teegotaru wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
I never go to the first three overcrowded wards anymore. Though if I need mats or materials I will visit the other 17 or so wards.

To the people buying stuff from the first three wards - shame on you for wasting your time as well as others time. If everyone just refused to buy junk from there, we wouldn't have this problem.




If SE would give us the auction house format an overwhelming number of players want we wouldn't have this problem.

-Teeg



Actually, if people used that **** system that is there, we wouldn't have this problem!

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:12pm by Mhantra




*puts out a bunch of apples*

here, now you can make apple juice


FU! You shoulda just given us apple juice to begin with!


yeah, lets face it, the system is in place, you can not blame anyone but the players for not using it, the system is there for them to use, it is up to them to actualy use it
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#18 Dec 01 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mhantra wrote:

Actually, if people used that **** system that is there, we wouldn't have this problem!

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 10:12pm by Mhantra


It's the "chicken or the egg" in reverse. People who want to sell stuff fast will only use Battlecraft because that's where the buyer traffic is. Buyers will only use Battlecraft because that's where all the sellers are. Ad Infinitum. We're stuck in this paradox.
#19 Dec 01 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Teegotaru wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
I never go to the first three overcrowded wards anymore. Though if I need mats or materials I will visit the other 17 or so wards.

To the people buying stuff from the first three wards - shame on you for wasting your time as well as others time. If everyone just refused to buy junk from there, we wouldn't have this problem.




If SE would give us the auction house format an overwhelming number of players want we wouldn't have this problem.

-Teeg


They've given us what we need to make a functioning economy and we've spat in their face in response.

I find it disgusting that we as players have to be restricted so hard just so simple game functions work out.

Anyway, my suggestions for market wards follow, as an AH is not the answer:

a) Icons above sellers heads indicating what they are selling the most of (Sword for Weapons, Hammer for Tools and so on)

b) A 50% tax for selling anything in the inappropriate ward

c) No tax for selling in the right ward

I don't even believe a search function will be the answer, but we'll see in the December update.

PS: I think most of the RMT sit in the first couple wards and all the less intelligent players follow suite. Who actually spends hours looking through the first two wards when you can find what you need in 5 minutes from the others? It really doesn't make sense to me.
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#20 Dec 01 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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tylerbee wrote:
PS: I think most of the RMT sit in the first couple wards and all the less intelligent players follow suite. Who actually spends hours looking through the first two wards when you can find what you need in 5 minutes from the others? It really doesn't make sense to me.


And what if what I need is a weapon? Instead of the battlecraft wards, where is a better ward to find one?

It's all a terrible catch 22. The buyers don't go to the correct wards because the sellers are in the wrong ward. The sellers are in the wrong ward because the buyers don't go to the correct one.

I mean, honestly, the only way to make the market wards "work" is to give everyone one retainer for each ward and charge a 100% tax on all items on the wrong ward, such that the seller receives no money whatsoever for an item sold in the wrong ward, forcing them to list it in the right place, thus forcing buyers to go to the right ward.

You can lead a retainer to a market ward, but you can't force them to sell the right ****.
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#21 Dec 01 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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With the new feature that shows the weapon or item retainers are selling equipped, its alot easier to get a weapon without having to browse through every retainer.

Its obvious that they're only staying there because some people are spending alot of time in those packed wards, browsing every single retainer and buying everything they need from there.

If they just ignored any items they needed bar weapons from the battlecraft ward, with a little patience it'd work itself out.
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#22 Dec 01 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I concur that I never go into Battle (1st) ward.

I literally been there 1x to put my Retainer there when she had 12 Harpoons to push.
...and it was already full of retainers (all of which I checked had no weapons - but I only checked 10 or so).

So I threw up some old Maple/Willow Wands and slapped it in Mage ward (with Harpoons).


I never go in there and I never plan to sell outside the ward I'm supposed to be in.

-----

Also introducing an AH is like handing over all crafted merchandise to RMT and never, ever making a profit on it again. So good luck with that - but if they do add an AH, I'll lament all those lost hours I spent on Carpenter, but I won't /ragequit like all the crybabies who can't handle NO AH. I'll just keep on keeping on.
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#23 Dec 01 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Lindblum server is half and half. You have alot of people that use the organized wards properly, and I've actually made a decent profit from reasonably priced mining materials. However, you have the other half that just loads the retainer with anything, and throws them into the battlecraft ward, crowding out space for people who actually sell the proper items.
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#24 Dec 01 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mean no offense to OP, and please do not take the following as so. If I misunderstand your post I apologize. To clear things up, you mentioned you are moving your for sale armor from the tanner ward. The tanner ward is not the place to sell armor. It is solely for: Hide / Leather / Fur / Armor Hide / Armor Leather* / Footwear Part.
I made this mistake as well, and it's a problem with the wording of wards. I marked the Armor leather. That's not actually armor. An example may be Sheepskin Harness. It's actually War Garb, and should be in Clothiers Ward.

It's my belief that there are two factors to the ward issues, one is of course people simply don't want to try, and the other is lack of exact wording on where stuff goes. I for one believe in the Ward System, yes it still needs work, and search will help that. However, there really needs to be a little more clarity on exactly what goes where.

The following link is Zam's market ward guide. http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Market_WardsI use it to place my retainer always, and it's been helping. Hopefully more people will follow. I actually learned I need to sell belts in Jeweler ward. Hope this helps anyone that is confused.
#25 Dec 02 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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Koziam wrote:
I mean no offense to OP, and please do not take the following as so. If I misunderstand your post I apologize. To clear things up, you mentioned you are moving your for sale armor from the tanner ward. The tanner ward is not the place to sell armor. It is solely for: Hide / Leather / Fur / Armor Hide / Armor Leather* / Footwear Part.
I made this mistake as well, and it's a problem with the wording of wards. I marked the Armor leather. That's not actually armor. An example may be Sheepskin Harness. It's actually War Garb, and should be in Clothiers Ward.

It's my belief that there are two factors to the ward issues, one is of course people simply don't want to try, and the other is lack of exact wording on where stuff goes. I for one believe in the Ward System, yes it still needs work, and search will help that. However, there really needs to be a little more clarity on exactly what goes where.

The following link is Zam's market ward guide. http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Market_WardsI use it to place my retainer always, and it's been helping. Hopefully more people will follow. I actually learned I need to sell belts in Jeweler ward. Hope this helps anyone that is confused.


I have exactly the same doubt too. I wonder if any crafter will search the extremely packed Battlecraft Ward for Leatherwork materials.

Also, I agreed that the current Ward system is poorly cataloged. Like Leatherworkers make leather armors, not various kinds of gloves. With the limited number and space of retainer, the current system just forcing ppl to sell the wrong stuff in the wrong ward. They should change it to something like Metal armor ward, Leather armor ward... instead of hatter ward, clother ward...

#26 Dec 02 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had hoped the would sort it by class - which made more sense to me.

If you want a Ash Macuahuitl go to the "Carpenter Ward."
If you want humus to make wands go to the "Mining Ward."
If you want hemp yarn or hemp cowl go to the "Weaver Ward."

The only one I couldn't really account for was items that drop EXCLUSIVELY from mobs - but a catch all "Mob Slayer" ward could gather all that miscellaneous junk.

I cringed when I saw "Weapon" ward and "Hat" ward. I'm never selling just 1 type of thing, but I guarantee I'm always selling SOMETHING I made as a Carpenter. Oh well.
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#27 Dec 02 2010 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good
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hmmm I do agree that a huge problem exist some times when it comes to finding the item you want in the right ward. I haven't been able to find a sheep leather strap (gray) in any towns Tanners ward for the past week and its really holding me up.

#28 Dec 02 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Default
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The first manifestation of the retainer system was complete crap, we all know this. The system as it is now is only marginally better, but far from a solution like some of the above posters seem to think. Some say "the system is in place," others that "They've given us what we need to make a functioning economy and we've spat in their face."

SE hasn't given us what we need to make a functional economy, they just changed the names of the zones involved in a convoluted system of AFK bazaars. Even if everyone used it correctly, it would still be far more work and far more time to end up doing what a simple, accessible auction house would have done from the start.

Here's hoping they add more to the system than some sort of clunky search-by-name box; if they at least make the menus look like an auction house menu, it would be easy to see categorical stock at a glance, or to sort the collective inventory of all the retainers.

So, I guess, the best case scenario is that we get an AH that requires walking and zoning to grab your items. It's better than what we started with, but it seems like it will always be a system that tries desperately to imitate an AH while desperately trying not to be one by technicality.

Think about it: it's sad that the pinnacle of the retainer system is just an auction house missing one or two features.


Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 1:37am by KaneKitty
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#29 Dec 02 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah the feature that allows RMT to find and buy EVERY cotton boll and sell it for double the price.

Now multiply that by EVERY item.

That's the functions we're inconveniently missing.
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#30 Dec 02 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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Kirutaru wrote:
I had hoped the would sort it by class - which made more sense to me.

If you want a Ash Macuahuitl go to the "Carpenter Ward."
If you want humus to make wands go to the "Mining Ward."
If you want hemp yarn or hemp cowl go to the "Weaver Ward."

The only one I couldn't really account for was items that drop EXCLUSIVELY from mobs - but a catch all "Mob Slayer" ward could gather all that miscellaneous junk.

I cringed when I saw "Weapon" ward and "Hat" ward. I'm never selling just 1 type of thing, but I guarantee I'm always selling SOMETHING I made as a Carpenter. Oh well.



I understand what you mean, but in the same breath, it limits wards to essentially 9-10 wards give or take versus the current 20. I think SE is trying to avoid having such a condensed ward system. It may just be translations, but I think just naming and clarifying wards that are material based just that. Instead of Tanner Ward, just say Leather Materials. Clothier Ward should be Armor Ward so it doesn't sound like weaver material ward.

It may cause issues with those wanting to sell multiple crafts/mats/whatever. This is another issue by itself. As a multi crafter I deal with having to move retainer based on what I made that day for what craft. I accept that. As long as I place items in right ward, I tend to sell out rather quick. Is there an easy solution right now, no, and I shouldn't expect one. Basically people need to decide what they want to sell on what day. It's really no different from an AH. You have limited slots to sell merchandise, however; players must now plan better than what we are used to.

I hope some of what I've said makes sense. I have confidence in the Ward System. It is up to us players and Square Enix to make it work. The Wards need work, but people have to be willing to actually try to learn the system, and stop trying to sell Gridanian Walnuts and Marmot meat in Batlecraft Ward. NPC your garbage. Happy gaming everyone.
#31 Dec 02 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Good
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Don't think there's even a reason to make and sell goods since now most of the players will undercut each other to the point that you might as well spend time farming the items by DoL to get mats to grind on and make more money that way.

This is considering that the you will lose out on tax and the fact that if you do nothing but DoH, you'll lose on the shards cost or make pathetic profit. I am not suggesting you stop making items but no point doing mass production since everyone and their mothers can make anything they want. Until SE puts in some kind of disassembler or something to rid all the excess items, you're better off making making 1-2 odd item make HQ purposes and keep the best for yourself and sell the rest. This is especially true for those that are NOT in the top 10 in their server, since you will get undercut by not just the people at the top but also the people that are trying to rid their old equipment.
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#32 Dec 02 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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I'd rather have the Market Wards than the RMT controlling the market
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#33 Dec 02 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I understand what you mean, but in the same breath, it limits wards to essentially 9-10 wards give or take versus the current 20. I think SE is trying to avoid having such a condensed ward system. It may just be translations, but I think just naming and clarifying wards that are material based just that. Instead of Tanner Ward, just say Leather Materials. Clothier Ward should be Armor Ward so it doesn't sound like weaver material ward.

It may cause issues with those wanting to sell multiple crafts/mats/whatever. This is another issue by itself. As a multi crafter I deal with having to move retainer based on what I made that day for what craft. I accept that. As long as I place items in right ward, I tend to sell out rather quick. Is there an easy solution right now, no, and I shouldn't expect one. Basically people need to decide what they want to sell on what day. It's really no different from an AH. You have limited slots to sell merchandise, however; players must now plan better than what we are used to.

I hope some of what I've said makes sense. I have confidence in the Ward System. It is up to us players and Square Enix to make it work. The Wards need work, but people have to be willing to actually try to learn the system, and stop trying to sell Gridanian Walnuts and Marmot meat in Batlecraft Ward. NPC your garbage. Happy gaming everyone.


I completely agree. It was just my idea and I still think "my idea" makes more sense on "ease of finding" what you're looking for - we both seem to agree that it's currently confusing. I'm serious when I say every time I move my retainer I double check the list of what sells in what ward cause I constantly forget and the names only help for certain things and not others.

There could be "other ideas" even "better ideas" but I think my idea is better than what they have now - certainly better than what they had before (and I had the idea before they announced a rename; I said: What the **** is an Upper Keeners Ward and why isn't this Fishmonger Ward?).

Any way, you and I aren't disagreeing. I agree mine isn't perfect and condensing the wards would be a bad idea. I don't go into the weapon ward because there's too many things in there - if I need a weapon, I get someone to make it (but I play Conj main so ... don't need axes often [read: ever]).

Quote:
Don't think there's even a reason to make and sell goods since now most of the players will undercut each other to the point that you might as well spend time farming the items by DoL to get mats to grind on and make more money that way.


I'm not saying you're wrong - but undercutting in this market is ridiculous. You see, things are difficult to find so when I find an item I want (say for example a Blue Robe) I have to make a decision "Should I buy this right now? or risk not finding it again for ... days/weeks?" I check Yellow Gremlin for a baseline of what's "average" and weigh it against convenience. Undercutting is silly (though I know it is happening).

Undercutting is a result of these "guides" to crafting that tell me to make 3000 Willow Half-Masks (which I do because the materials are easy and the shard count is low) - but I NPC 80% of these and take the loss. That's just how you balance "efficient skill gain" versus "making a profit" - something you get used to if you play FFXI.

Edit: Sorry, I meant to say "one of the reasons of undercutting is a result of these..." I obviously don't mean the only reason to undercut.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 3:16am by Kirutaru
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#34 Dec 02 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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tylerbee wrote:
I'd rather have the Market Wards than the RMT controlling the market
I'm afraid we are about to have both.

I don't know how is in your server but most characters selling shards in Istory clearly seem RMT, I even got contacted by a couple of them while shouting for Crystals in Ul'dah.

I think the market system simply doesn't work as intended, SE either have to reinforce it strongly (I think the idea of Milk about 100% tax for wrong place items is good) or give up and try with a traditional AH.

I believe we all can agree that FFXIV is struggling to survive, SE better make top priority to fix/replace/remove the things that are getting in our way to enjoy the game, like the market wards.

Ken
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#35 Dec 02 2010 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
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tylerbee wrote:
I'd rather have the Market Wards than the RMT controlling the market


Fallacy of the false dilemma.
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#36 Dec 02 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
I'd rather have the Market Wards than the RMT controlling the market


Fallacy of the false dilemma.


Fair call, but an AH isn't the answer

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 3:33am by tylerbee
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#37 Dec 02 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm afraid we are about to have both.

I don't know how is in your server but most characters selling shards in Istory clearly seem RMT, I even got contacted by a couple of them while shouting for Crystals in Ul'dah.

I think the market system simply doesn't work as intended, SE either have to reinforce it strongly (I think the idea of Milk about 100% tax for wrong place items is good) or give up and try with a traditional AH.

I believe we all can agree that FFXIV is struggling to survive, SE better make top priority to fix/replace/remove the things that are getting in our way to enjoy the game, like the market wards.


I'm afraid we're about to have both, too, but not for the same reason. I'm afraid SE is about to continue to hack up XIV and juxtapose XI systems into it just to keep itself from sinking.

You see, the thing is that in order to control a thing, you have to have easy access to the supply and an understanding of the demand. It's very, very difficult for RMT to buy EVERY SINGLE shard (that's for sale) because they (like us) have to search every gdmn bazaar to find them all. This market inconveniences everyone! So it's difficult to control the flow of a specific product.

The only person this hurts the most is someone who decided they aren't going to do anything but FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT and sell shards & crystals to make up their income (which I know several legit players have done in the past few months). Well their market might get undercut to **** by RMT gobbling everything up and selling it back - BUT if you don't like the undercut prices (as a buyer) ... it's not like shards are hard to get.

I mean every time I run out of wind shards I either look up a mob that drops them in my level range - or I drop 1k on a weapon, start a new job and go grind Roselings and Puk Hatchlings (until I can do Sea Puk and Jellyfish!). In two hours I could begin to build an Uncle Scrooge Money Bin to house my shards if I weren't planning to use them up.

So yeah - RMT is going to struggle all around. I'm pretty sure they're just amassing gil right now (cause who isn't, really? what is there to buy when you can't find anything you really want?) but I'm not sure who is going to buy it unless it's ridiculously (I'm talking absurdly) cheap. Gil is easy come, easy go in XIV (and so are shards).
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#38 Dec 02 2010 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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I have been having some success in the wards lately as a seller. For the past week I have been keeping my retainer in the proper ward in the same stall in the same city. Everytime I am in that city and need to visit my retainer I renew my lease if I haven't done so recently to ensure that I do not lose my stand. I am maintaining a constant presence. I want people to know that. If they need something I make and sell, they don't need to waste time sifting through retainers. They can count on me to have what they want at a fair price whenever they need it. I am opperating. Like a real store, offering convieience and reliability for my customers.

It was a bit slow at first, but I am definitely starting to notice improvement. I am selling my items out daily now, and I restock daily as well.

A funny trend I am noticing though is that I don't sell anything during the NA Ddaytime and peak hours. But when I log in the morning after I wake up after JP daytime and peak hours, I have sold a lot. By the way, I am a culinarian. This leads me to believe that. The JP players use food while the NA players do not.
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#39 Dec 02 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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tylerbee wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
I'd rather have the Market Wards than the RMT controlling the market


Fallacy of the false dilemma.


Fair call, but an AH isn't the answer

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 3:33am by tylerbee


You mean "AH as we know it (from XI and onward) isn't the answer."

There are many ways to improve the idea of XI's AH (on of the founding fathers of AH economies) so that RMT are unable to acquire and control the flow of consumables and craft goods/mats.

Honestly I think the retainer idea is better than "bazaar" but not good enough to pass for an AH. Being able to search items and have Retainers be located for you is a great step in the right direction - but I don't think any other information should be shown. If RMT have access to the flow (rise and fall in price) of an item, they can target it and collect it.

Having to physically check every bazaar that pops up with an item (rather than just clicking on a menu) will certainly hinder their efforts - though it won't stop them completely of course. There's no real stop to RMT or market control (if you have enough manpower and fiscal resources) in an MMO, but in an attempt to make it not worth their while SE has screwed over their players (which is something they always seemed to overlook in XI as well).
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#40 Dec 02 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
I'm rating you up for this because I really think you have sound reasoning. Although I have sold a fair amount of ores and what-not in the Ironmongers Ward, I too feel that I would be getting much better results in battlecraft and am saddened by that. Here's hoping a search function will help =/


well one of your issues here appears to be the fact that you are selling ores in the ironmongers ward and not the masons ward which is the place for ores.
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#41 Dec 02 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Have you tried using yg.com?

maybe give us a few of the items your trying to sell and the prices your hawking them for so we can assist you in choosing a better sell price that might push them faster.

yg's auction app is awesome for my sales.



XXCyniCXX wrote:
Today I had to make a decision that I have long been resisting. I moved my retainer out of the tanners ward and, against better judgment, have placed in the battlecraft ward.

I really did not want to do this, as I think the system could work; unfortunately, people are people, and we cannot change that. My gear is reasonably priced, and my personal bazaar sells consistently when placed in a populated area. Yet my retainer, selling the same goods for the same price, never sells anything. I have few options left but to place my retainer in the incorrect ward to maximize traffic and exposure.

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm pretty bummed out. Yes, something like this can bum me out. I really wanted it to work as intended.

I concede.


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#42 Dec 02 2010 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I have stopped using the wards at all, I don't even put my retainer there anymore because it's just a time sink. Nothing will stop RMTs anyways because they have the manpower and the time. The only way to stop them is to NOT BUY gils. No buyers = Sellers bankrupt, that's always been the flaw in how to treat RMTs. Trying to stop them will just make the base player hurt more than RMTs (that's their job, that's a game for us).
Not using the wards has not affected my gameplay at all, only that I can spend my time doing leves/ crafting and I just NPC all the junk I get. Maybe I don't build a lot of money but at least, I avoid the frustration of spending too much of my play time (casual) to not find items I'm looking for and just try to get my stuff crafted by guildies whenever I need a new gear upgrade.
The searchable function for the wards will make it easier for everyone (RMTs and gamers) so why not simply put an 'improved' version of an AH? We will still have our retainers and our bazaars if we don't want to buy the overpriced RMTs items but we will still be able to find faster what we are looking for because most of the people will then use the AH OR use the appropriate ward due to the decrease number of people selling their junks there or in the incorrect wards. Basically, an AH would clean up the wards and make them more usable. The combination of an AH and the retainers can also help slowing down a lot the RMTs action by giving more choice of place for people to look for items and I doubt RMTs can fight in all fronts (AH, bazaar and retainers).

Just my 2cents...
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#43 Dec 02 2010 at 4:09 AM Rating: Decent
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The market system is close to being a usable exchange it just needs a way of finding what you're looking for. What I'd like to see is the ability to pull up a list of items in a particular ward. Upon selecting an item from the list all the retainers who have that item for sell would despay an icon next to their name. The player could then browse each of those bazaars and compare prices. There'd still be retainers in the wrong bazaar simply due to having items appropriate to multiple ward to sell and only being able to sell in one ward.
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#44 Dec 02 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally shop the less busy wards because its so freaking hard to find what im looking for in the busier ones, wayyyyyy to many people selling random stuff to click through. Then again, I don't go to wards too often... or shop for that matter.
#45 Dec 02 2010 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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Currently the Market Ward system is flawed, I will agree with that. Further, an inordinate number of players are lazy and place their retainers in the first and/or the second ward and not in the ward that is appropriate to the items they are selling. Again, I cannot dispute that. Lastly, RMT is already an issue in the game. I have seen more RMT parties in FFXIV than I ever saw in my years of playing FFXI!

SqEnix is looking at fixing the Market Ward system, and I look forward to seeing what they develop. As for RMT, SqEnix needs to develop an in game system for reporting these people and having them investigated. Currently they are exceedingly blatant in their quest to harvest shards. Parties of appx 10-15 ppl most being rank 3 with one level appropriate character moving about killing mobs, and as we all know all party members collect the shards that drop off of all kills no mater what the level. This allows them to harvest large number of shards and sell them on their retainers in the wards. How many of us have bought shards from retainers named Crystallllllllzzz and the like. Come on... we can all bet who those retainers belong to.

As for retainer placement, the only way to combat the laziness of members is to shop in the appropriate wards for the items we are looking for. Now many of you (myself included) work on differing crafts. I always place mine in the ward where the majority of the items for sale are appropriately placed. If people are not making the sales they may begin to realise that they are the problem, not the system.

The one thing SqEnix can do in regards to this system is to make the wards searchable based upon the items that are supposed to be in that ward. In other words you can only search the Mason's Ward for raw ores and the like. So, if people want their items to be listed in the search then they will have to place their retainer in the appropriate ward. This IMHO will be more of a deciding factor in getting people to place things appropriately than raising the tax rate.
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#46 Dec 02 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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I try not to enter the battle wards. It's a complete mess usually and it's a headache to get through such a crowded area with little to no organization to it. So people in the battle wards lose some customers while they gain others.

I don't mind how fast or slow my items sell so I place my retainer in the correct wards. Surprisingly, my retainers often sells out within the day or so, and that's enough incentive for me to keep selling in the correct wards.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 7:36am by ashaylin
#47 Dec 02 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I browse through the battleward daily, because I'm looking for deals on weapons. I like the new function putting the gear on your retainer. I just look into the ones who are nicely dressed or holding good looking weapons. And I skip the rest, hoping between that and YG I'd find my item.


Splitting the wards will never be perfect. Not everyone solely sells 1 type of item. I have logs, weapons, and tools in mine.

AH saves everyone time and effort, they should bring it back. If they want to counter huge undercutting they should hide the transaction history and hide the amount for sale, simply show if the item is available or not.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 8:12am by Bozmo

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 8:12am by Bozmo
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#48 Dec 02 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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God, could the word efficient be removed from the
dictionary? Efficiency just makes people into robots.
Why have that? It's the reason people want to shop and
sell in one place. Or, it could be laziness. Whatever
the reason, people aren't using the system as designed.
SE could make it so only items of the correct type could
be bought or sold in each ward. How many people would that
**** off? What's the rush anyway. It's the journey that's
important not the destination.
#49 Dec 02 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wonder what the feeling would be if all of the Walmarts and Targets and such of the world were gone.

You want groceries? Go to the grocery store.
You want a video game? Go to a video game store.
You want a movie? Go to a movie store.
You want clothes? Go to a clothing store.
You want medicine? Go to a pharmacy.

People would go ********

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of "The Department Store experience", but that has to do with the people who shop there, not the store itself.

I mean, I've always been one of the bigger proponents of not making a game stupidly easy, but I don't understand why anyone would intentionally want their game to be obtuse and inconvenient. I also don't understand why SE is wasting so much time trying to make square wheels work, for no other reason than "We don't want round ones".
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#50 Dec 02 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I also don't understand why SE is wasting so much time trying to make square wheels work, for no other reason than "We don't want round ones".


Other than lacking a search feature (including price history) market wards aren't much different than an Auction House. The primary difference is that SE has given us the freedom to "post" items in any category. Imagine and AH where you choose which category your item is listed under. This is the same deal. While part of the blame falls on SE for a number of things, you also have to realize that many people are intentionally misusing the market wards, which only adds to their failures.

The Wards clearly need more development but I'm optimistic that they'll become so much better than the generic auction house. Simply being able to seek items is a function typical AHs don't have. While it is a struggle, I'm glad SE didn't give in and scrap the market wards. I don't want to play generic MMO #24, I want to play something new, raw, and different. I don't want to play yet another MMO with a linear class system, basic AH, simplistic crafting, etc. If I wanted to play a flawless, content rich, familiar game, I have plenty of old games to choose from. I play FFXIV because it's a square wheel among dozens of round ones.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 11:38am by Hydragyrum
#51 Dec 02 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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I never go in to the BC ward any more because of people like this, unless I need a weapon. In that case, rest assured, that if I'm in there and you don't have the weapon I'm looking for, I won't be buying from you. I don't care how much lower your prices are then the rest of the server.
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