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2011 XIV Expectations & PossibilitesFollow

#1 Dec 04 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default
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Now with 2010 ending I think we can all agree that from what we've seen since the November update, and what's to come from the December update and first update of 2011, Square Enix has pulled off a huge comeback. Just looking at the numbers(population) post-update in comparison to pre-update numbers.

With that being said it's never too early to talk about what we all expect as far as content updates and the possibility of Square Enix releasing it's first expansion. Alot of prior threads have shown us new areas that Square will make available in the future.

Would anyone care to comment on where they hope to hope to see XIV goes in their first full year? Hopefully, Square Enix takes notice.
#2 Dec 04 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I wish for a more stable connect.

30001 followed by 30002. And random R0 then 30002 is not cool.

O ya, fix SP too. Make it worth while fighting higher level mobs.
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#3 Dec 04 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Personal homes, like the mog house but more customization. Like the more gil / faction points or w/e can be used to increase the size and decorate, you can allow people entry etc. Its an RPG game I don't much think any adventurer who would end up sleeping in the middle of the Uldah or in a mines like 5 feet away from skeles would perform all that well xD

Logging off in your house could help fatigue, (yes similar to wows rested)

You can meet your companion there thus giving them a bit more life.

Later on you can add a chocobo stable and maybe either raise or keep or both!

You should be able to decorate it and even upload jpegs for in game "paintings"

And I liked the FFXI mannequins (might have spelt that wrong)

Also think you should get choices in quests and missions so your more involved with your character and its more about you than playing through a story book. Even just minor changes.

An in game casino! (there a place in uldah that has a sign with dice I think, not sure but its near brick a brack)

An in game battle arena! In the PUG mission at 20 you do a fight I think that would be wicked! Both PVP and PVE, people can watch, place bets and giant foam hands to be sold to people (maybe not the foam hands)

The battle arena would really give PVPers a small ****** I'm sure, however with the betting thing need to make sure it cant be abused etc. Also if your beaten you should have like a debuff thats means you cant fight/gain SP or w/e for a duration so when your fighting you really want to win! Also maybe a SP reward etc.

Chocobo race tracks!

--I'll stop but when it comes to ideas I feel like a kid on xmas morning!
#4 Dec 04 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.
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#5 Dec 04 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I am hoping they give better SP during Behests
#6 Dec 04 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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illuminarok wrote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


i'd go ahead and exhale if i were you, cause its not gonna happen.


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#7 Dec 04 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
illuminarok wrote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


i'd go ahead and exhale if i were you, cause its not gonna happen.




That's their loss of revenue then. No skin off my back.
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#8 Dec 04 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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illuminarok wrote:
Llester wrote:
illuminarok wrote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


i'd go ahead and exhale if i were you, cause its not gonna happen.




That's their loss of revenue then. No skin off my back.



lol k.
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#9 Dec 04 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


Still don't understand the deal behind the auction house. Sure it's useful and all and I wouldn't mind having one, but by using YG's site for checking peoples' bazaars I find that (besides teleporting to the place) I can get better items for cheaper. Prices seem to be a lot more competitive with the bazaars than with AH in which case the prices just skyrocket in an instant.

I got tons of good gear in FFXIV through bazaars and checking that website for mere pocket change.

Edit: Besides, in FFXI auction houses were split up. You would have to go to those places anyway so it's no different than bazaars. In this case Uldah is currently the most popular bazaar location, followed by Limsa (at least on Besaid).

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 1:43pm by Rjain
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#10 Dec 04 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
illuminarok wrote:
Llester wrote:
illuminarok wrote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


i'd go ahead and exhale if i were you, cause its not gonna happen.




That's their loss of revenue then. No skin off my back.


Not really, they are going to cash in on everyone buying more retainers. As long as they add a search function i'll be happy, it will be close enough.
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#11 Dec 04 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default
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illuminarok wrote:
I logged in and tried out the November patch and found it to be satisfactory.
I fully expect the December patch to be just as amazing.

That said, I will not come back until there is an Auction House.


I'm new here and too Final Fantasy...but leaving ANY game due to lack of AH is pathetic.
#12 Dec 04 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I like they are trying something new and although God I do hate retainers so much sometimes I want to give it a good long chance because you will never find something better unless you give them a chance to improve it and so far they are walking forward (not running yet) and making things better. Maybe give it a another update or two then take a look at the system, you might not love it but I'm sure it'll improve.

The massive f ups I can deal with, I'm more interested in SEs reaction on fixing stuff, that's what I'll be judging the game on.

Edit - Welcome to the new guy :) do yourself a favour and play Final Fantasy 7 :P

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 2:00pm by wallace87
#13 Dec 04 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Expectations? Ships! both Air and water based one's but really...companies and ships.

Back just before the game was released and they showed the images party based crafting content with cooks coming together to make giant cakes, and carpenters making huge missile launchers! I want some of that!

But really, the #1 thing are ships and how much they can do.
#14 Dec 04 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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I hope to see more areas introduced, more story to quests, side things to do such as how FFXI had garrison, chocobo races, and maze mongers, and then a few months later more classes just to spice things up more.

What I want done I can never see happening in one update, but I definitely don't think it's too much to ask to do in a year.
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#15 Dec 04 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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SE is being progressive without an AH, will it pay off? I dunno. Though we can all expect these to go into effect when our 'free extended beta 2.0' ends and when people will not have the option of making X free characters to sell and hold stuff.

Auction house will probably have more then 7 items on release, but given the amount of items in game needed to craft it will probably be less then adequate. Expect an AH after PS3 release and AFTER retainers can sell more then 10 items in bazaar.

Delivery box should be December if I recall right.

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#16 Dec 04 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe SE will finally cave in and at least announce if real npc quests are coming or not.

Up to that point I'm preferring to do mini adventures in Vana'diel that give story and unique rewards.

The "L-word" in this game is starting to be a bit much.

There's a leve for killing enemies, running, making a sword, making a sandwich, fishing, gathering leveleveleveaargh!

Oh I still have some gobbiebag quests to do. They don't have a time-limit either and I can plan my own way of doing them. Hmmm if only something so complex could be done with the next generation gamers without blinking arrows and non-stop hand holding.
#17 Dec 04 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Maybe SE will finally cave in and at least announce if real npc quests are coming or not.


Hey, it's time for the weekly "Class quests are not npc quests" nonsense!

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#18 Dec 04 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I expect content, I hope for awesome piles of pointless stuff on top of content (like fireworks and such).

I also hope the community starts communicating more in game.
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#19 Dec 04 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Phantasy Star Universe didn't have an AH, and it worked out great.

They had player housing that were also player shops. So what you'd do is go up to a terminal and search for an item -> then a bunch of search results would pop up, showing you who has the item for sale in their shop. Then you'd travel there and check out the price.

It was awesome because there was a lot of window shopping that would happen once you brought someone into your shop.
Players could also advertise your shop -> when someone scrolled over your shop in a search result, you'd see a short and sweet advertisement. Players could use to tell you what kind of shop it is, what kind of stuff they craft, if they have a sale going on, and so forth.

What it fostered was a natural and organic bazaar system. People eventually started having favorite store stores to visit regularly for the best synthed items, or what players sold a lot of rare drops, or who sold the most materials, or consumables, or even what stores sold a lot of decorations and such. Players could easily create a specialized shop of their crafted items, or generalize by selling a varity, or simply sell stuff they found on the field, or whatever!

It was easily the best part about that game, and SE is obviously trying to have a bazaar system similar to that, but they're going about it the wrong way, with the zombie wards and lack of ability for players to use trade strategies in their own stores/retainers.

Further, returning to a player's zombie store is not the same as visiting their shop; you could even walk into their house to see what kind of trophies they've earned, what kind of mag they've raised, and how they've decorated their place.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 3:28pm by maxmad
#20 Dec 04 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Rjain wrote:

Still don't understand the deal behind the auction house. Sure it's useful and all and I wouldn't mind having one, but by using YG's site for checking peoples' bazaars I find that (besides teleporting to the place) I can get better items for cheaper.


Having to "rely" on a third party venue to make finding items to purchase easier is just wrong. The game itself should hold all tools needed for supply/demand/trade/economy setup. Other stuff like fan based "Wiki" sites for general information is perfectly fine.

Rjain wrote:

Prices seem to be a lot more competitive with the bazaars than with AH in which case the prices just skyrocket in an instant.


That's not true, prices will be competitive whether in bazaars or an AH, the difference is that the AH will make it at least 5x FASTER to search/trade/sell items.
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#21 Dec 04 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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I would like to see what exactly they do with those locations like the Golden Bazzar, Silver Bazzar, and they should make another ship from Uldah to Gridania.
#22 Dec 04 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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jayfly wrote:
That's not true, prices will be competitive whether in bazaars or an AH, the difference is that the AH will make it at least 5x FASTER to search/trade/sell items.


I've said before that I personally think the reason for no AH is because SE was hoping that the community would identify RMT and not purchase from them... the only problem is that retainers don't show who owns them... so while it's likely obvious that a group of people are RMT, they might actually be smart and not name their retainers in the same typical RMT fashion.

Still, despite its annoyances I think the AH free system COULD work... just depends on the tools SE gives us, and people selling stuff in the correct places....
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#23zoltanrs, Posted: Dec 04 2010 at 3:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I want every game to be the same too. I'm already ****** that this game doesn't have orcs and trolls. I also want the ui to just be the WoW ui because if one game does it noone else is allowed to be different otherwise they can't has my greenbacks. Ironforge better be in the next patch. The same game. one of us, one of us, one of us.... No, but really your reason is dumb.
#24 Dec 04 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I'm rather neutral on the auction house argument. I can see how it would be much helpful, and I can see how it can detract from the community.

That being said:

Aren't there already auction houses in FFXIV? I don't mean completely working / functionable ones, but I heard that, when auction houses were a super duper huge topic, that there were empty shops with the FFXI auction house sign up on them. Which meant that they allocated space for them, they just haven't implimented them.

And that phantasy star idea sounds amazing.
#25 Dec 04 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Aren't there already auction houses in FFXIV? I don't mean completely working / functionable ones, but I heard that, when auction houses were a super duper huge topic, that there were empty shops with the FFXI auction house sign up on them. Which meant that they allocated space for them, they just haven't implimented them.


Yes it's the same sign but there is only one and it's in Limsa. (I think, not played in like 3 weeks) but when you talk to the NPC outside he says its a court room
#26 Dec 04 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
PerrinofSylph wrote:
jayfly wrote:
That's not true, prices will be competitive whether in bazaars or an AH, the difference is that the AH will make it at least 5x FASTER to search/trade/sell items.


I've said before that I personally think the reason for no AH is because SE was hoping that the community would identify RMT and not purchase from them... the only problem is that retainers don't show who owns them... so while it's likely obvious that a group of people are RMT, they might actually be smart and not name their retainers in the same typical RMT fashion.

Still, despite its annoyances I think the AH free system COULD work... just depends on the tools SE gives us, and people selling stuff in the correct places....



I completely agree with you. Lack of an AH will keep price gouging / monopolizing to a minimum. People won't be able to go and buy up all remaining stock of an item, then increase price and relist it all. They also won't see zero stock, and list a 50k item at 100k just cuz they can. They can do it in their bazaar, but there will always be someone who has it cheaper. And if the RMT keep up their typical "Aaaoaaaossodj" names then we will be able to skip over them, if we wish to. I am also a fan of the PSU shop system. I honestly believe the AH system to be a seller's system and SE looks to be gearing things more towards a buyer's system.
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#27 Dec 04 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I completely agree with you. Lack of an AH will keep price gouging / monopolizing to a minimum. People won't be able to go and buy up all remaining stock of an item, then increase price and relist it all. They also won't see zero stock, and list a 50k item at 100k just cuz they can. They can do it in their bazaar, but there will always be someone who has it cheaper. And if the RMT keep up their typical "Aaaoaaaossodj" names then we will be able to skip over them, if we wish to. I am also a fan of the PSU shop system. I honestly believe the AH system to be a seller's system and SE looks to be gearing things more towards a buyer's system.


Ugh, I can't believe people are still defending this system. It's like this is your first MMO.

AH will not introduce price gouging or monopolization any more than a bazaar system does. Price gouging and monopolies happen when, get this, one person or one group provides the sole supply of a given item. The method by which those items are transfered from player to player has no bearing on it. In fact, I'd say that an AH will make it HARDER to get a monopoly on any item because it makes it EASIER to sell items.

Only the stupidest or most bored people on an MMO do the whole "buy all the remaining stock of an item" to relist it at a higher price. It requires a massive amount of capital to buy up all items on an AH, and you have a very, very good chance of not having your items get bought out when people realize what you did (because your name shows up) or if you listed them higher than the "accepted" price for an item. It's also highly susceptible to having a random person come in and start listing the item at a lower price and stealing away virtually all your customers, because EVERYONE can see that he's selling cheaper. The real AH manipulation that happens is similar to how stock trading works; people buy up common consumables, materials or items during the week days when they're cheap because fewer people are playing, and then sell them on the weekend for profit.

If SE wanted to give us the power NOT to buy from RMT, they could have done a really simple change to an AH system (which basically every MMO has); allow us to see who is selling the item on the AH. Problem solved. Right now you can't tell who owns what bazaar, so either SE doesn't really care if we buy from RMT or not, or they're completely clueless as to how bazaars work.

This bazaar system is OBJECTIVELY BAD, for both buyers and sellers.
#28 Dec 04 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I want every game to be the same too. I'm already ****** that this game doesn't have orcs and trolls. I also want the ui to just be the WoW ui because if one game does it noone else is allowed to be different otherwise they can't has my greenbacks. Ironforge better be in the next patch. The same game. one of us, one of us, one of us.... No, but really your reason is dumb.


I never once asked for anything to do with any other game other than an Auction House which is a critical aspect of a flourishing micro-economy. Your response to me is ridiculous at best.
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#29 Dec 04 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Default
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I have an expectation that they'll fix the SP system for larger parties grinding on harder mobs to be more rewarding than solo/duo/trio blue-mob-zerg play. I'll be back to play when this is the case but until then (and I never though i'd say this) i'll be playing WoW which has a much more compelling solo player experience.

Stripping away the strategy and tactful party play for leveling is the worst idea they could've implemented and I do hope it was a mistake or oversight. Removing one of the main draws of Final Fantasy games is just awful.

(PS: Strategic and tactful party play is not killing blue mobs which die in less than 5 seconds over and over again)
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#30 Dec 04 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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The one thing I really hope happens is that SE improves the market system into something that is a viable alternative to an AH. Sure, there are people who will defend the "need" for an AH, and I hope that they'll adapt to this hypothetical improved market system. We'll see what happens.
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#31 Dec 04 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
Wolfums wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
I completely agree with you. Lack of an AH will keep price gouging / monopolizing to a minimum. People won't be able to go and buy up all remaining stock of an item, then increase price and relist it all. They also won't see zero stock, and list a 50k item at 100k just cuz they can. They can do it in their bazaar, but there will always be someone who has it cheaper. And if the RMT keep up their typical "Aaaoaaaossodj" names then we will be able to skip over them, if we wish to. I am also a fan of the PSU shop system. I honestly believe the AH system to be a seller's system and SE looks to be gearing things more towards a buyer's system.


Ugh, I can't believe people are still defending this system. It's like this is your first MMO.

AH will not introduce price gouging or monopolization any more than a bazaar system does. Price gouging and monopolies happen when, get this, one person or one group provides the sole supply of a given item. The method by which those items are transfered from player to player has no bearing on it. In fact, I'd say that an AH will make it HARDER to get a monopoly on any item because it makes it EASIER to sell items.

Only the stupidest or most bored people on an MMO do the whole "buy all the remaining stock of an item" to relist it at a higher price. It requires a massive amount of capital to buy up all items on an AH, and you have a very, very good chance of not having your items get bought out when people realize what you did (because your name shows up) or if you listed them higher than the "accepted" price for an item. It's also highly susceptible to having a random person come in and start listing the item at a lower price and stealing away virtually all your customers, because EVERYONE can see that he's selling cheaper. The real AH manipulation that happens is similar to how stock trading works; people buy up common consumables, materials or items during the week days when they're cheap because fewer people are playing, and then sell them on the weekend for profit.

If SE wanted to give us the power NOT to buy from RMT, they could have done a really simple change to an AH system (which basically every MMO has); allow us to see who is selling the item on the AH. Problem solved. Right now you can't tell who owns what bazaar, so either SE doesn't really care if we buy from RMT or not, or they're completely clueless as to how bazaars work.

This bazaar system is OBJECTIVELY BAD, for both buyers and sellers.


I'll admit I'm no 10 year vet, but its not my first. Call the buy-out method dumb, stupid, w/e... but we all know it's happened. Better to prevent it then hope it doesn't happen. With the bazaar system, everyone is held accountable for their choices: what to sell, how high or low to sell it, etc. People will stray away from others who continually sell higher than the "accepted price." If they absolutely need to put a centralized AH in, then yes code it so we can see who is selling and let people choose which particular item to buy. Lowest price will usually win and if people are feeling particularly righteous, then they can skip over the undercut RMT item. Just please don't go back to FFXI style AH.
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#32 Dec 04 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:

I completely agree with you. Lack of an AH will keep price gouging / monopolizing to a minimum. People won't be able to go and buy up all remaining stock of an item, then increase price and relist it all. They also won't see zero stock, and list a 50k item at 100k just cuz they can. They can do it in their bazaar, but there will always be someone who has it cheaper. And if the RMT keep up their typical "Aaaoaaaossodj" names then we will be able to skip over them, if we wish to. I am also a fan of the PSU shop system. I honestly believe the AH system to be a seller's system and SE looks to be gearing things more towards a buyer's system.


Congratulations on not understanding basic economics. Next time before you try to make an economic argument maybe you should bother to open up an economics textbook and educate yourself. Its people like you who cause politicians to come up with stupid policies to appease the uneducated masses, that in the end make life worse for everyone.

The bazaar system is the -exact same- as an auction house, aside from being more inefficient. In other words, it takes more time to buy things + to sell things with a bazaar/retainer system than it does with an auction house. Other than that there is -no- difference. Its probably actually easier to price gouge / monopolize with a bazaar/retainer system because there is imperfect information (ex. you can't tell how much the past 10 items sold for so you have to guess/estimate the value of goods, and if you only see 2 ppl selling at a REALLY inflated price, you have know way of telling its inflated)
#33 Dec 04 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I'll admit I'm no 10 year vet, but its not my first. Call the buy-out method dumb, stupid, w/e... but we all know it's happened. Better to prevent it then hope it doesn't happen. With the bazaar system, everyone is held accountable for their choices: what to sell, how high or low to sell it, etc. People will stray away from others who continually sell higher than the "accepted price." If they absolutely need to put a centralized AH in, then yes code it so we can see who is selling and let people choose which particular item to buy. Lowest price will usually win and if people are feeling particularly righteous, then they can skip over the undercut RMT item. Just please don't go back to FFXI style AH.


Honestly, in almost 7 years of playing MMOs, I have never seen the buyout method. It simply does not work, because it requires the person to also have a monopoly on the item or to otherwise prevent other people from selling that item. The closest I've seen to this is back in the Burning Crusade era of WOW; someone was the only alchemist on the server to make a certain elixir. It lasted half a week until other alchemists caught on and the price normalized.

In fact, it's EASIER to price gouge people on FFXIV's system because people don't want to spend forever looking for an item and they'll be more likely to buy the first or one of the first items they come across.

There is no acceptable price with FFXIV's system, because nobody can check the competition and buyers can't check for the best price. A system where selling items is hard is a system where buying items is hard, and vice versa. You can't have one without the other.
#34 Dec 04 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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Wolfums wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
I'll admit I'm no 10 year vet, but its not my first. Call the buy-out method dumb, stupid, w/e... but we all know it's happened. Better to prevent it then hope it doesn't happen. With the bazaar system, everyone is held accountable for their choices: what to sell, how high or low to sell it, etc. People will stray away from others who continually sell higher than the "accepted price." If they absolutely need to put a centralized AH in, then yes code it so we can see who is selling and let people choose which particular item to buy. Lowest price will usually win and if people are feeling particularly righteous, then they can skip over the undercut RMT item. Just please don't go back to FFXI style AH.


Honestly, in almost 7 years of playing MMOs, I have never seen the buyout method. It simply does not work, because it requires the person to also have a monopoly on the item or to otherwise prevent other people from selling that item. The closest I've seen to this is back in the Burning Crusade era of WOW; someone was the only alchemist on the server to make a certain elixir. It lasted half a week until other alchemists caught on and the price normalized.

In fact, it's EASIER to price gouge people on FFXIV's system because people don't want to spend forever looking for an item and they'll be more likely to buy the first or one of the first items they come across.

There is no acceptable price with FFXIV's system, because nobody can check the competition and buyers can't check for the best price. A system where selling items is hard is a system where buying items is hard, and vice versa. You can't have one without the other.


to be fair i monopolized some stuff in FFXI but it had nothing to do with the AH system. I either camped a nm and claimed it every time (22-24 spawn) for weeks, and didnt sell any of the items. then sold the items at a really inflated price. And some items that were new were only dropped by certain mobs. And as a bst i was one of the few jobs that could solo them, and i monopolized them for a week until SE made 100s of more mobs drop them.
But yeah, AH has nothing to do with monopolization
#35 Dec 04 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Default
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RMT can rather easily manipulate the AH and claim a monopoly on it. They have done this countless times in the past too.

The market system is harder to manipulate because you can't manipulate who is buying from who.

Either way they will turn marketplace into an AH at which point people complaining about a lack of an AH are silly.
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#36 Dec 04 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
I don't make this stuff up. I saw it happen on all matter of items in FFXI, from beehive chips to sniper rings and even scorpion harnesses for a time on Gilgamesh. It never happened on really high ticket items, but low-mid range stuff that everyone used. It also never went on for long periods of time, whether people got banned or moved on to other items I don't know. Never said it was a rampant problem, but it did happen and was obviously noticeable when it did. Who knows, maybe the easily accessible gil in this game will change that should the AH go in.
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#37 Dec 04 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Grezlord wrote:
Now with 2010 ending I think we can all agree that from what we've seen since the November update, and what's to come from the December update and first update of 2011, Square Enix has pulled off a huge comeback. Just looking at the numbers(population) post-update in comparison to pre-update numbers.


hehe

I reckon now that we can't see server numbers that makes everything lovely. All servers have over 5k people online at any given time, prove me wrong!!
#38 Dec 04 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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When I log into my game, I want to become immersed in the world around me. I want the real world to melt away and disappear until the moment I log off. I want to feel like that character on the screen that I control is me, running around in an amazing world, living up to the standards only a knight could have. I want to be able to protect the princess, save the day, save the city, all that crazy stuff.
That's what I expect from SE in these future updates. The entire feeling of the current game is far too impersonal for me. I need and want more immersion.

Also I want a fun-factor. I want some real creativity and fun thrown in to the entire crafting system. The items we make are far too serious.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 8:38pm by ThinkDeeply
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#39 Dec 04 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
RMT can rather easily manipulate the AH and claim a monopoly on it. They have done this countless times in the past too.

The market system is harder to manipulate because you can't manipulate who is buying from who.

Either way they will turn marketplace into an AH at which point people complaining about a lack of an AH are silly.


IKickYoDog wrote:
I don't make this stuff up. I saw it happen on all matter of items in FFXI, from beehive chips to sniper rings and even scorpion harnesses for a time on Gilgamesh. It never happened on really high ticket items, but low-mid range stuff that everyone used. It also never went on for long periods of time, whether people got banned or moved on to other items I don't know. Never said it was a rampant problem, but it did happen and was obviously noticeable when it did. Who knows, maybe the easily accessible gil in this game will change that should the AH go in.



OK let me explain this to you.
Lets say RMT start raising the price of beehive chips from 2000 gil per stack to 10,000 gil per stack.
This creates something called an "incentive"
This incentive to -all- players is that farming beehive chips will make them fast gil
Many players then farm beehive chips
The auction house gets flooded with beehive chips
At a high price like 10,000 less people are buying beehive chips
So you get something called undercutting
People consistently price their stacks lower to sell them
over time an economic concept called EQUILIBRIUM is reached
This is EFFICIENT!

Now in ffxiv lets say the same thing occurs
RMT boost up prices hardcore
But here, there is no ah, so theres no way to efficiently find undercutters
Since RMT can horde stacks, they can monopolize the market
In other words RMT can get 100 stacks and sell them all on one or 2 retainers titled WHATEVERITEMSALE
Other people might get 1 or 2 stacks and price them cheaper
but to get the undercut cheaper products you have to search through 1000 retainers in 3 different cities and multiple wards

Therefore, monopolizing is SIGNIFICANTLY easier in FFXIV than in FFXI.

There is a reason why all the economies in the world that strive to get near auction-house type of sales (capitalist economies) where equilibrium price is easily and quickly reached, are the ones that are successful.
Economies like africa where there are few corporations and lots of little markets tend to be less successful, because they are unable to reach equilibrium price easily and thus create inefficiency.
With an AH -everyone- on the server is better off
with a market-based system -everyone- is worse off

Thats not to say market based system is bad. Its benefit to the game is that it makes crafting more interesting. Instead of things reaching an average price on an AH, prices are unstable and you can get deals or barter for deals. This makes crafting a lot more ineteresting.

However, take my word for it as an Economist, there is nothing economically beneficial about the FFXIV system over the FFXI system. FFXIV's system is more prone to monopolization, more inefficient, and doesn't allow for equilibrium price to be reached for 95% of the items.

Please don't try to argue that "youve seen it happen" in ffxi. What you saw has nothing at all to do with the AH system but rather to do with RMT's camping certain drops + nms and normal players being unable to out-claim them or finding it not profitable enough to out-claim them untill the price get high.

If you can come up with an economic argument for the benefits of this system over the other, go for it. But its clear you have no concept of what supply and demand is and you don't understand how a monopoly functions. So i doubt you can put one together.

And im sorry if i seem condescending, its just really annoying to me when people use arguments that are -completely- opposite from basic economic knowledge that everyone should know. To me you are basically trying to argue that 2 apples + 3 apples = 100 apples

#40 Dec 04 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you Azurymber for being a voice of reason here. Monopolization was possible in FFXI because in general, crafted items were horrible and everyone bought only NM items. There was no way to compete with NM items, as NMs were world bosses, not instanced and there were no items that could be purchased with points/coins/whatever, that could also be sold on the AH.

Convoluted and difficult market systems make it so that only large, well organized groups can sell items well. The only such groups? RMT and end game linkshells/guilds. You cannot make selling or buying items hard for your loners or casuals, because then your entire economy is going to be ruined.
#41 Dec 04 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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Just to back up my argument that its easier to manipulate/monopolize a bazaar/retainer system than an AH system, here is a guide i wrote for FFXI. Its a guide on buying up cheap items and reselling them higher in bazaars. Note that ffxi had no retainers, and i often had to run around to multiple cities to accomplish this. With retainers, this is even easier. Doing something similar to this on an AH would be pretty well impossible.

Sorry for the bad spelling and such. Also keep in mind at the time i did this it took most people 2-3 days to accumulate 100k, and thats if they spent the entire day farming. If you were a fisher, stacks of black sole were selling slowly around 6-8k at the time. I also ended up making over 10mil using this method (over a few weeks. as i made more money i could buy more and daily profit went up)

------------------Guide starts here-----------------------
Welcome on my guide to making approximately 100k per day.
Firstly, many people may read this and claim I’m an ******* for doing it. However this is how stuff in the real world works and everyone benefits from this.
I go to whitegate and find people selling ancient beastcoins or dynamis currency in their bazaar at a certain price. Usually I can get ancient beastcoins for 8000 gil each, and dynamis currency at many different prices. I had noticed that ancient beastcoins almost always sell in 2 days if you price them at 9800 and leave your char outside jeuno in rolanberry. Similarly ordelles bronzepieces and tukutuku whiteshells were selling fast at 8800. So the main tactic here is to take all your gil, but up as many ancient beastcoins and dynamis currencies as you can for low prices, and then resell them for approximately 2000 gil more each. Thus each sale you profit 2000 gil or so. In the end I was making around 85k a day. However in reality I was making a lot less in the first day than I was in the third day. The more gil you have to invest the more profit you make overnight. So if you do this, expect to make considerably more gil as your days progress. In the end I made an extra 250k ontop of 100k in 3 days. In reality I made more than this, I just did not record everything. So it seems this method works well.

To anyone who thinks this is unfair or evil, this is why it is now:
#1 I buy for 8000 gil from people meaning they are benefiting from selling the coins for 8000 gil because they can most likely invest the time they spend standing outside jeuno into something more productive. Thus I am not ripping them off.
#2 Running around whitegate finding people to sell coins for 8000 gil doesn’t always work, and sometimes people are in a rush or have enough gil not to care about the difference, therefore selling at a high price is not bad. People are willing to pay the high price so they must be benefiting
#3I make gil without undercutting others prices or taking up exp camps or competing to farm.

The following is a summary of MOST of my transactions with the results of them at the bottom. I started doing this on Tuesday after I speant around 1.5mil on a flawless ribbon and only had 100k left over, and finished on Friday morning with enough to get 75 ancient beastcoins so that I could get a brutal earring. Also notice that I had purchased 30 ancient beastcoins which were ignored in the calculations for final profit since I used them for my earring. If I were to have sold these I would have made 1900 gil on each one and the 3 day profit would be around 300k, meaning 100k profit per day on average.

Ancient Beastcoin = AB
Ordelles Bronzepiece = OB
Tw = tuku tuku whiteshell

Purchase = 10AB x 8000 = 80 000
Sale = 10AB x 9800 = 98 000

Purchase = 1 OB x 8000 = 8000
sold at 8800

Purchase = 6 TW = 46,200
Sold at 8800x 6 = 52800

Purchase 18AB for 128k
Sold for 156800

Purchase 1TW = 8190 1TW = 7700
sold 8800
sold 8800

Purchase 2 OB x 5500 = 11000
Sold 17600

Purchase 2 AB x 8000 = 16000
Sold 19600

Purchase 18x8 OB = 144000
Sold 158400

Selling 17 byne bills for 6400 each
Sold 108,800

Purchase 17 ABx8000 = 136000
Purchase 10 ABx8000 = 80000
All sold for 264600

Purchase 1 OB = 7700
sold for 8800

Purchase 4 TW = 31,200
sold 35200

Purchase 1 TW = 6600
sold 8800

Purchase 2 OB = 15400
Sold 8800
Sold 8800

IGNORE Purchase 27 AB = 216000
Purchase 3 AB = 24000
Selling 9800  IGNORE THIS, used for brutal earring instead of sold

Purchase 28 TW = 182700
Sold 246,400

Purchase 28 AB = 224000
Sold 20 AB * 9800 = 196000
Sold 7 AB * 9800 = 68600
Sold 1 AB * 9800 = 9800

Total Purchases = 1132690
Total Sales = 1385499 (not including byne bills)
Overall Profit = 252 809
NOTE: I occasionally spent extra money on ancient beastcoins which I didn’t sell so overall profit would have easily been over 300k if I sold those. I ended up spending 75 ancient beastcoins in the end for a brutal earring.
Daily profit is approx: 85k gil for about 20minutes of a work per day. As you make more gil, you make more profit (since you can buy 100 anceint beastcoins at once instead of 20, and they will still sell over night for 1900 more each).
So this is basically the first 3 days, starting with approx 100k investment.

I hope this helps you ^^ goodluck if you try it.

-Darkrain of Kujata
#42 Dec 04 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Might I add this current system makes people who are usually classified as "sellers" not want to sell because of how much of a chore it is to whip out the ole retainer, swap items, load them up in bazaar, place the retainer, and then start sales of which you get no notification when something has sold, and the retainers go down after a system maintenance.

Can you say higher prices overall?
Can you say inconvenient? No? Well, enjoy your nonsense. I'll holdout until the problem has been solved personally.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 9:03pm by illuminarok
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#43 Dec 04 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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If you guys want to see how a good AH system is, give Aion a try. It's got an excellent AH AND an active, functional bazaar system.
#44 Dec 04 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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I hope to see SE not lie. I was trying to repeat a battlecraft leve since I crashed, but was unable to. There is a line on the page that you can get to by clicking guildleves on the lodestone site that says: Failed guildleves can be reattempted upon immediate renewal of the leves.

So I waited till the reset and I still cannot do it nor the adventure guild has it for a leve to pick up. So I decided to remove the game and not even try it at all till I know that either they fix things like the crashes or they change up some of the features like not being able to repeat failed leves that are not faction.
#45 Dec 04 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
Azurymber wrote:
Just to back up my argument that its easier to manipulate/monopolize a bazaar/retainer system than an AH system, here is a guide i wrote for FFXI. Its a guide on buying up cheap items and reselling them higher in bazaars. Note that ffxi had no retainers, and i often had to run around to multiple cities to accomplish this. With retainers, this is even easier. Doing something similar to this on an AH would be pretty well impossible.

Sorry for the bad spelling and such. Also keep in mind at the time i did this it took most people 2-3 days to accumulate 100k, and thats if they spent the entire day farming. If you were a fisher, stacks of black sole were selling slowly around 6-8k at the time. I also ended up making over 10mil using this method (over a few weeks. as i made more money i could buy more and daily profit went up)

------------------Guide starts here-----------------------
Welcome on my guide to making approximately 100k per day.
Firstly, many people may read this and claim I’m an @#%^ for doing it. However this is how stuff in the real world works and everyone benefits from this.
I go to whitegate and find people selling ancient beastcoins or dynamis currency in their bazaar at a certain price. Usually I can get ancient beastcoins for 8000 gil each, and dynamis currency at many different prices. I had noticed that ancient beastcoins almost always sell in 2 days if you price them at 9800 and leave your char outside jeuno in rolanberry. Similarly ordelles bronzepieces and tukutuku whiteshells were selling fast at 8800. So the main tactic here is to take all your gil, but up as many ancient beastcoins and dynamis currencies as you can for low prices, and then resell them for approximately 2000 gil more each. Thus each sale you profit 2000 gil or so. In the end I was making around 85k a day. However in reality I was making a lot less in the first day than I was in the third day. The more gil you have to invest the more profit you make overnight. So if you do this, expect to make considerably more gil as your days progress. In the end I made an extra 250k ontop of 100k in 3 days. In reality I made more than this, I just did not record everything. So it seems this method works well.

To anyone who thinks this is unfair or evil, this is why it is now:
#1 I buy for 8000 gil from people meaning they are benefiting from selling the coins for 8000 gil because they can most likely invest the time they spend standing outside jeuno into something more productive. Thus I am not ripping them off.
#2 Running around whitegate finding people to sell coins for 8000 gil doesn’t always work, and sometimes people are in a rush or have enough gil not to care about the difference, therefore selling at a high price is not bad. People are willing to pay the high price so they must be benefiting
#3I make gil without undercutting others prices or taking up exp camps or competing to farm.

The following is a summary of MOST of my transactions with the results of them at the bottom. I started doing this on Tuesday after I speant around 1.5mil on a flawless ribbon and only had 100k left over, and finished on Friday morning with enough to get 75 ancient beastcoins so that I could get a brutal earring. Also notice that I had purchased 30 ancient beastcoins which were ignored in the calculations for final profit since I used them for my earring. If I were to have sold these I would have made 1900 gil on each one and the 3 day profit would be around 300k, meaning 100k profit per day on average.

Ancient Beastcoin = AB
Ordelles Bronzepiece = OB
Tw = tuku tuku whiteshell

Purchase = 10AB x 8000 = 80 000
Sale = 10AB x 9800 = 98 000

Purchase = 1 OB x 8000 = 8000
sold at 8800

Purchase = 6 TW = 46,200
Sold at 8800x 6 = 52800

Purchase 18AB for 128k
Sold for 156800

Purchase 1TW = 8190 1TW = 7700
sold 8800
sold 8800

Purchase 2 OB x 5500 = 11000
Sold 17600

Purchase 2 AB x 8000 = 16000
Sold 19600

Purchase 18x8 OB = 144000
Sold 158400

Selling 17 byne bills for 6400 each
Sold 108,800

Purchase 17 ABx8000 = 136000
Purchase 10 ABx8000 = 80000
All sold for 264600

Purchase 1 OB = 7700
sold for 8800

Purchase 4 TW = 31,200
sold 35200

Purchase 1 TW = 6600
sold 8800

Purchase 2 OB = 15400
Sold 8800
Sold 8800

IGNORE Purchase 27 AB = 216000
Purchase 3 AB = 24000
Selling 9800  IGNORE THIS, used for brutal earring instead of sold

Purchase 28 TW = 182700
Sold 246,400

Purchase 28 AB = 224000
Sold 20 AB * 9800 = 196000
Sold 7 AB * 9800 = 68600
Sold 1 AB * 9800 = 9800

Total Purchases = 1132690
Total Sales = 1385499 (not including byne bills)
Overall Profit = 252 809
NOTE: I occasionally spent extra money on ancient beastcoins which I didn’t sell so overall profit would have easily been over 300k if I sold those. I ended up spending 75 ancient beastcoins in the end for a brutal earring.
Daily profit is approx: 85k gil for about 20minutes of a work per day. As you make more gil, you make more profit (since you can buy 100 anceint beastcoins at once instead of 20, and they will still sell over night for 1900 more each).
So this is basically the first 3 days, starting with approx 100k investment.

I hope this helps you ^^ goodluck if you try it.

-Darkrain of Kujata


Based on your last post I will /bow on the easier to manipulate argument.
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#46 Dec 04 2010 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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wow...this thread has really gone off the rails with all this AH talk...

anyway, on topic: I'd also expect more quest like the rank 20 class quest. I've done around 4 now and they are where all wonderful, gave you info about the world, about things to come, and definition to your class. They really made me crave more and I'm hoping for way more quest like those.
#47 Dec 04 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Great points Azurymber and Wolfums.

Wolfums wrote:
Monopolization was possible in FFXI because in general, crafted items were horrible and everyone bought only NM items. There was no way to compete with NM items, as NMs were world bosses, not instanced and there were no items that could be purchased with points/coins/whatever, that could also be sold on the AH.


I've discuss this point with some friends of mine, particularly, I'm hoping SE only allows "OPEN" world NMs to drop RARE/EX items so that they CAN NOT be sold via an AH or Bazaar. This would keep monopolization down to pretty much nil. However "Instanced" NMs wouldn't be a problem if they were sell-able due to the fact that anyone can get their OWN instanced NM if they'd like.










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#48 Dec 04 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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Out of curiosity, does anyone have any level of degree in economics?
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#49 Dec 04 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
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The current bazaar system is bad. For many reasons. Period.
AHs work.
Shop systems work.
Bazaar zombie wars with hundreds of zombies do not work.
#50 Dec 04 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
I still can't believe people think that an AH supports RMT/price gouging more than the current retainer system does. An AH would be a far stronger tool for market stabilization, SE just needs to support a full price history rather than only a few of the most recent sales and the problem of market manipulation will be cut off at the knees.
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#51 Dec 04 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone have any level of degree in economics?


I have a specialist (enhanced double major) in economics + politics from university of toronto, and i run a marketing firm that occasionally does economic consulting.
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