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#52 Dec 08 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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klepp6761 wrote:
pretty much. I know I finally quit,not after seein my server @ 600 ppl during primetime but after realizing that of the 10-15 people that are my level that I can actually play with daily.... only one of them is of the endgame or strategic mmo-play mindset hence all there is left to do is level to 50 again, or quit. I chose the latter.

Not that there is end game mind you, but when there is...forcing myself to die repetively due to people being absolutely certain that the way to play FFXIV is to stand in a big pile in front of the mob (or whichever direction their ae is) take as much damage as possible, and spam ae heal) lol. You woulda thunk this was everyones first MMO.

a.) the "server population" number was actually the number of parties not people...so the number of people on is at least double that.

b.) the only reason everyone stood in front of aoes was so mages could get the most sp possible from aoe heals. this is pointless now as they've changed the system.
#53 Dec 08 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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stripesonfire wrote:
klepp6761 wrote:
pretty much. I know I finally quit,not after seein my server @ 600 ppl during primetime but after realizing that of the 10-15 people that are my level that I can actually play with daily.... only one of them is of the endgame or strategic mmo-play mindset hence all there is left to do is level to 50 again, or quit. I chose the latter.

Not that there is end game mind you, but when there is...forcing myself to die repetively due to people being absolutely certain that the way to play FFXIV is to stand in a big pile in front of the mob (or whichever direction their ae is) take as much damage as possible, and spam ae heal) lol. You woulda thunk this was everyones first MMO.

a.) the "server population" number was actually the number of parties not people...so the number of people on is at least double that.b.) the only reason everyone stood in front of aoes was so mages could get the most sp possible from aoe heals. this is pointless now as they've changed the system.


Do you have a link to back that up?
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#54 Dec 08 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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XI would have had problems keeping people around the first year too, I don't mean the first year after PS2, the first year with all the problems, and yes, even no AH for the first 2 months. You know why people didn't get immediately bored? I know this isn't going to be a very popular observation- but I'm going to say it anyway.

You worked toward that next piece of gear. Progression was motivated by better gear and access to it. Sure there was limited content, and no AH, and bugs out the wazoo, but you really wanted to try out that cool looking shiney your friend who was 5 levels higher than you was wearing.
XIV let's us just slap the highest piece of gear on at rank 1 and it means just about nothing. You have the money? You can wear the best with little to no consequences (regardless of all the talk about out of rank penalties), duh-dum-dum, that's all folks, thanks for playing.
It's like having the win button installed on the keyboard, or controller.
I've really tried to figure out why they designed the game that way, and have come up with nothing sensical.
To make matters even better, selling anything low-mid level is a hassle, as 50% of the population is running around in gear thats 20 ranks above them.

But I digress. The point is...
You take the carrot off the stick and drop a pile of them in front of the horse, and guess how much running around the same track the horse is going to be doing?
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#55 Dec 08 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Restyoneck wrote:

I've really tried to figure out why they designed the game that way, and have come up with nothing sensical.
really? it took me 2 seconds to figure out why they did it. It's so you don't have to carry around 50 pieces of gear to swap classes from a high ranking job to a low ranking one or vice versa. Of course you get penalties for doing so, but at least you aren't required to do so or fight naked.


Edited, Dec 8th 2010 5:36pm by Jefro420
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#56 Dec 08 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, while that "makes sense" it does so in a rudimentary way.

It's lazy, like the no AH design.

They could have made gear storage for each job, it's just lines of code, not real storage.
All it involves is hiding the gear from certain menus and recalling the set-up for that particular job, which the server did in XI (the recall I mean - not the seperate storage menu).

The "limitations" excuse was believeable in 2003, it's not a viable excuse in 2011. Not for gear storage space on your character anyway. Data storage and recall in both the hardware and software areas has evolved light years in the last 5 years alone.

Regardless of why they did it, the design has removed one of the primary motivators for progression in an MMO, and that removal was not replaced with something equal or greater. That's bad design on SE's part.
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#57 Dec 08 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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biggest prob with the population is people dont own a pc that can play it on standard with a decent frame rate, so maybe there waiting to play on ps3 when it comes out.
#58 Dec 08 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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mitmystria wrote:
biggest prob with the population is people dont own a pc that can play it on standard with a decent frame rate, so maybe there waiting to play on ps3 when it comes out.


I hadn't thought of it, but I agree. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3 players who want to get in on FFXIV but don't have a good computer.
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#59 Dec 08 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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pamayepa wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
You are dong it wrong. Find a linkshell, do behest, then leves until the next behest, have fun with LS on vent. Craft and repeat having fun on LS vent. If you are on Istory hit me up.




The problem is this game just doesnt offer anything to do.



You are doing it wrong then. I play at what most consider to be a "hardcore" rate and I can't possibly get everything i want done at any point. By the time I roll all 16 leves and get to some leveling and crafting it is leve time again. I fail to see how there is nothing to do. Not 1 player on the entire game has more than a shell of a character right now. Having A 50 isn't quite the pinnacle of achievement.

So the question is: What is your problem with finding things to do?
#60 Dec 08 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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zoltanrs wrote:
pamayepa wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
You are dong it wrong. Find a linkshell, do behest, then leves until the next behest, have fun with LS on vent. Craft and repeat having fun on LS vent. If you are on Istory hit me up.




The problem is this game just doesnt offer anything to do.



You are doing it wrong then. I play at what most consider to be a "hardcore" rate and I can't possibly get everything i want done at any point. By the time I roll all 16 leves and get to some leveling and crafting it is leve time again. I fail to see how there is nothing to do. Not 1 player on the entire game has more than a shell of a character right now. Having A 50 isn't quite the pinnacle of achievement.

So the question is: What is your problem with finding things to do?


The motivation to do those things.

It may be just me, but the "goal" of getting to r50 just to get to r50 isn't enough to keep me playing for the amount of time I know I can play. I really have no motivation to do anything, I mean...why craft any higher than I am? I have plenty of gil, and can make and repair the gear I have. I don't wanna push much past r30 because there is no awesome content that i'm missing out on. There is no nation mission that I must get done to be wowed and amazed.

There is no zone to explore that i can't currently do. There is no ZOMGWTFBBQ piece of gear that i need to obtain, and from the looks of the current NM system...there won't be. If the pattern stays the same NM gear is an alternative piece of equipment with either similar or lesser stats than the comparable crafted gear.

I mean who wants to do leves for months to get access to a r50 piece of gear that is similar to a piece of gear I can buy for 300k?

Now I know there will be the "game will change" crowd. I'm one of em...but to me, there is no reason to log anymore. I'm progressing for the sake of progressing.
#61 Dec 08 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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EzellLangor wrote:
I'm progressing for the sake of progressing.


Isn't that the point of any MMO? You progress through raid locks to get more raid locks. You progress through lesser gods to battle the higher gods. You progress through the story line to get more story line. You progress through levels to get more levels. The minute you're truly done progressing the game is broken. MMOs by definition have no end. You are continually progressing.

If you don't enjoy playing, it doesn't matter what the "motivation" is. You won't enjoy it when you get wherever you want to get either. If you honestly need motivation to play, you're already burned out. If you're thinking, "man this sucks, I really wish I was just rank X by now", you're burned out. There is plenty of content right now. No one is rank 50 in every class, therefore no one can claim they've run out of content. They only say they've run out of content they enjoy, which means they're burned out.
#62 Dec 08 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Default
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Restyoneck wrote:

You worked toward that next piece of gear. Progression was motivated by better gear and access to it.


See this is the same thing that's keeping me from really putting in the time to level. In countless other mmos I'd grind like crazy to equip that new gear and grind even crazier after because my character was much stronger and looked better. Don't get me wrong I understand there isn't much storage but they could have just as easily designed say a separate inventory to accommodate their new revolutionary class system. Or maybe have higher ranked classes attribute to how much higher gear your lower ranks can equip. You know something but the best they could do was remove equipping restrictions. SE could have done such a better job. >.>
#63 Dec 08 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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dethbysnusnu wrote:
Restyoneck wrote:

You worked toward that next piece of gear. Progression was motivated by better gear and access to it.


See this is the same thing that's keeping me from really putting in the time to level. In countless other mmos I'd grind like crazy to equip that new gear and grind even crazier after because my character was much stronger and looked better. Don't get me wrong I understand there isn't much storage but they could have just as easily designed say a separate inventory to accommodate their new revolutionary class system. Or maybe have higher ranked classes attribute to how much higher gear your lower ranks can equip. You know something but the best they could do was remove equipping restrictions. SE could have done such a better job. >.>


You do realize that in most cases equipping that rank 30+ piece of gear on a rank 10 character is far worse in terms of stats than a rank 10 piece of gear, right? Essentially all SE has done was merge an aesthetic system with the normal gear system. There's no excuse not to level your gear as you level other than laziness. The fact of the matter is higher rank gear looks cooler, so people wear it. Stats are a distant consideration. That is why you see rank 10 characters with rank 30+ gear.
#64 Dec 08 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
FF14 will live in a small niche of players. With games like DC Online and Star Wars coming i doubt any non fan of FF will stay there but the game will have its playerbase.

I quit the game 3 days ago. I stood up all this time but finally the 15-20 walking periods from gridania to uldah or coerthas pretty much killed my motivation. Chocobo had to be in the game release, think it was too late for me. Someone that has a family and a healthy social life cant stand in front of a pc for 8 hours every day. I was losing 2-3h just walking around to do leves, find sp parties, deliver this to ls member... its just too much.

Going through yohator jungle, temple of ugly and ifrits cauldron was an adventure. It had always adrenaline put up in our veins. Walking around in FFXIV is just a chore. That made me quit. I still like to check thew forumsthough maybe for a miracle like chocobo/airship on december, or AH/mail system but i dont believe any of these will be there before the PS3 release. Too late for me.

But the game wont die, if age of conan survived FFXIV can do it easily.
#65 Dec 08 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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EzellLangor wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
pamayepa wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
You are dong it wrong. Find a linkshell, do behest, then leves until the next behest, have fun with LS on vent. Craft and repeat having fun on LS vent. If you are on Istory hit me up.




The problem is this game just doesnt offer anything to do.



You are doing it wrong then. I play at what most consider to be a "hardcore" rate and I can't possibly get everything i want done at any point. By the time I roll all 16 leves and get to some leveling and crafting it is leve time again. I fail to see how there is nothing to do. Not 1 player on the entire game has more than a shell of a character right now. Having A 50 isn't quite the pinnacle of achievement.

So the question is: What is your problem with finding things to do?


The motivation to do those things.

It may be just me, but the "goal" of getting to r50 just to get to r50 isn't enough to keep me playing for the amount of time I know I can play. I really have no motivation to do anything, I mean...why craft any higher than I am? I have plenty of gil, and can make and repair the gear I have. I don't wanna push much past r30 because there is no awesome content that i'm missing out on. There is no nation mission that I must get done to be wowed and amazed.

There is no zone to explore that i can't currently do. There is no ZOMGWTFBBQ piece of gear that i need to obtain, and from the looks of the current NM system...there won't be. If the pattern stays the same NM gear is an alternative piece of equipment with either similar or lesser stats than the comparable crafted gear.

I mean who wants to do leves for months to get access to a r50 piece of gear that is similar to a piece of gear I can buy for 300k?

Now I know there will be the "game will change" crowd. I'm one of em...but to me, there is no reason to log anymore. I'm progressing for the sake of progressing.


You just described every mmo launch in history minus the gear at any level and that if you are wearing it, that is a terrible thing. You might be able to equip a r50 peice of gear but it will suck worse than on level gear. So basically that cancels itself out.

It's ok tho. When the content comes I'll enjoy selling you that gear or crafting you the NM gear. I would expect the level cap will raise too as the game isn't designed to stop at 50. You can look at the affinity skills and tell that. Either way while you're struggling to get your first class to 50 later just to be a shell of a character mine will be as ready as it can be. Have fun doing those leves for months to play catch up tho instead of at your own pace while there is time.


#66 Dec 08 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
I quit the game 3 days ago. I stood up all this time but finally the 15-20 walking periods from gridania to uldah or coerthas pretty much killed my motivation. Chocobo had to be in the game release, think it was too late for me. Someone that has a family and a healthy social life cant stand in front of a pc for 8 hours every day. I was losing 2-3h just walking around to do leves, find sp parties, deliver this to ls member... its just too much.


I hate to cherry pick, but really? Even with SE's adjustments to anima and the ability to set favorite aetherytes you STILL run out of anima and are forced to run? I simply don't believe it. I have yet to fall below 90 anima after the November update and I play almost every day. You'd have to be teleporting from one side of the world to the other multiple times per day to run out of anima after the update. It's ok to tell a LS member to meet you rather than teleport to meet them. Leves require little anima as long as you plan them according to location. The fact that you have a family and social life only proves that your character has more time to regenerate anima. I just can't believe that anyone has problems with transportation anymore, let alone quitting over it.
#67 Dec 08 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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game is not dead. It has more endgame PvE potential than any MMORPG out there.

WoW has too many scripted encounters for my case and is only really good for PvP.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 11:27pm by odinpingpong
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#68 Dec 08 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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zoltanrs wrote:
pamayepa wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
You are dong it wrong. Find a linkshell, do behest, then leves until the next behest, have fun with LS on vent. Craft and repeat having fun on LS vent. If you are on Istory hit me up.




The problem is this game just doesnt offer anything to do.



You are doing it wrong then. I play at what most consider to be a "hardcore" rate and I can't possibly get everything i want done at any point. By the time I roll all 16 leves and get to some leveling and crafting it is leve time again. I fail to see how there is nothing to do. Not 1 player on the entire game has more than a shell of a character right now. Having A 50 isn't quite the pinnacle of achievement.

So the question is: What is your problem with finding things to do?



i'd wager you're doing it wrong, i can finish leves in what i consider a short time, which isn't short for casuals by any means, but in about 3-4 hours i can finish all leves and have time to do whatever i like. which mostly involves logging off to play League of Legends because i refuse to grind Goldsmith with like 2-3 surp levels. Though i agree there is plenty to do for crafts and dow, but as a dom i really dont need anything the dow offer.... minus min maxin the 36 stats? pfft
#69 Dec 09 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Though i agree there is plenty to do for crafts and dow, but as a dom i really dont need anything the dow offer....


Not a need, but you could level archer and get their Out of Sight trait that lowers enmity. And have a lot of fun with OP archer in the process. It's another option anyway...
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#70 Dec 09 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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but if someone is drastically against the concept of joining a linkshell, perhaps they should be playing single player games instead.


Dunno, i remember when i played FFXI, i spent nearly 8 months, back in 2004, without a linkshell, and i enjoyed the game a lot, i just minded my own business.

I hope this game does not die, i want to play it, but for the moment i´m going to wait and see how things go.
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#71 Dec 09 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Quote:
Though i agree there is plenty to do for crafts and dow, but as a dom i really dont need anything the dow offer....


Not a need, but you could level archer and get their Out of Sight trait that lowers enmity. And have a lot of fun with OP archer in the process. It's another option anyway...


i added that via the 36, but <thanks for the offer, i'll have to pass> ;p
#72 Dec 09 2010 at 4:25 AM Rating: Good
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Miayr wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
pamayepa wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
You are dong it wrong. Find a linkshell, do behest, then leves until the next behest, have fun with LS on vent. Craft and repeat having fun on LS vent. If you are on Istory hit me up.




The problem is this game just doesnt offer anything to do.



You are doing it wrong then. I play at what most consider to be a "hardcore" rate and I can't possibly get everything i want done at any point. By the time I roll all 16 leves and get to some leveling and crafting it is leve time again. I fail to see how there is nothing to do. Not 1 player on the entire game has more than a shell of a character right now. Having A 50 isn't quite the pinnacle of achievement.

So the question is: What is your problem with finding things to do?



i'd wager you're doing it wrong, i can finish leves in what i consider a short time, which isn't short for casuals by any means, but in about 3-4 hours i can finish all leves and have time to do whatever i like. which mostly involves logging off to play League of Legends because i refuse to grind Goldsmith with like 2-3 surp levels. Though i agree there is plenty to do for crafts and dow, but as a dom i really dont need anything the dow offer.... minus min maxin the 36 stats? pfft



You just do battlecraft leves in 3-4 hours and you do them on low stars and solo. That's not really intended. If you had friends it could take you 3-4 hours at one node. That's beside the point tho. Do you not have people who need things from you? That by itself eats several hours of my time for character gains as well.
#73 Dec 09 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Decent
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i do them with a friend, there's no point to do it at more than 1 star for minor bonus.. we dont need the xp but ok?
fail to see how thats not intended, but thats just your opinion so i get it.. kind of.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 5:37am by Miayr
#74 Dec 09 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You just described every mmo launch in history minus the gear at any level and that if you are wearing it, that is a terrible thing. You might be able to equip a r50 peice of gear but it will suck worse than on level gear. So basically that cancels itself out.

It's ok tho. When the content comes I'll enjoy selling you that gear or crafting you the NM gear. I would expect the level cap will raise too as the game isn't designed to stop at 50. You can look at the affinity skills and tell that. Either way while you're struggling to get your first class to 50 later just to be a shell of a character mine will be as ready as it can be. Have fun doing those leves for months to play catch up tho instead of at your own pace while there is time.


I'm amazed people a)actually believe the game will become epic and everyone will really flock back, even if they do improve it the game will never be mass market now, it's been stagnant too long and people have a sour taste in their mouth when they think of it. and b)that starting off later means a **** anyway. My sister started quite late in FFXI and she still accomplished pretty much everything you could want to, killed every HNM/NM, got into a big shell, got lots of gil, obtained a relic blah blah. Means honestly very little, easy as pie to catch up if youre a good player and dedicated.
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#75 Dec 09 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Decent
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mitmystria wrote:
biggest prob with the population is people dont own a pc that can play it on standard with a decent frame rate, so maybe there waiting to play on ps3 when it comes out.


Seriously, you guys need to stop kidding yourselves. The game sucks that's why people don't play it plain and simple.
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#76 Dec 09 2010 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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There is another factor to consider. A lot of people will play Beta, then wait six months or so untill the game has settled and relevent patches/bug fixes/new content has been added. It usualy takes time for an MMO to gain momentum; they are NEVER perfect from the start, and this puts people off at launch. I started right away because i was a huge fan of XI, but I usualy wait with other MMOs for a while to see what the fanbase thinks of it, and to see how the game progresses before i sign up.
Conclusion = more people will subscribe if the game continues to improve and people speak positively about it.
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#77 Dec 09 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gridania is fairly depopulated on my server. The wards are very empty in comparison to the other two cities (for example, the most popular tradescraft ward has only ~15 retainers compare to 80+ elsewhere).

In terms of the server itself, I see the most people on right after a leve reset and during Japanese prime time. There are definitely periods of lull where it seems like a lot of people are either idling or offline. It's not what I expected for a game that's only 3 months old, but I wouldn't say it's dead just yet.
#78 Dec 09 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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i can't even keep up with what's going on when i log in @.@ our ls reached max and we had to make a new ls to weed out inactive ppl yes but when we restarted it was about 40-60 ppl and its usually at least 30% of those ppl on at all times. we party and do leves/behests together. we get materials for each other and make gear and do repairs, which i know doesn't seem like a lot of fun but we socialize whilst. the key is to keep communicating with ppl even if they aren't in your ls and stop expecting others to be responsible for your fun in the game.
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#79 Dec 09 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Default
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odinpingpong wrote:
game is not dead. It has more endgame PvE potential than any MMORPG out there.

WoW has too many scripted encounters for my case and is only really good for PvP.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 11:27pm by odinpingpong


Could you elaborate on this? What more PVE potential exactly?
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#80 Dec 09 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Like, potential. Potentially, it has enourmous potential.
Exponential potential, so to speak.
#81 Dec 09 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Default
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This game went from 600,000 subscribers to 40,000 im sure its going down hill and the numbers keep dropping. Figure it out, this game will become a nitch game. It will have a small population of players that like it but thats it. They may have to combine servers soon.
#82 Dec 09 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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First of all, that 600,000 number was copies shipped, not sold. Secondly, where are you getting this 40,000 current subscribers from?

Also, it'd be pretty silly to combine servers when they're expecting a population surge with PS3 release in March.
#83 Dec 09 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Like, potential. Potentially, it has enourmous potential.
Exponential potential, so to speak.


Yes, I understand the concept of potential. But I wanted specifics for this game. One could say every game out there has amazing potential in a general sense, because they all do. I want to know what specific things FFXIV has going for it to justify this claim of potential here.
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#84 Dec 09 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
I'm progressing for the sake of progressing.


Isn't that the point of any MMO? You progress through raid locks to get more raid locks. You progress through lesser gods to battle the higher gods. You progress through the story line to get more story line. You progress through levels to get more levels. The minute you're truly done progressing the game is broken. MMOs by definition have no end. You are continually progressing.

If you don't enjoy playing, it doesn't matter what the "motivation" is. You won't enjoy it when you get wherever you want to get either. If you honestly need motivation to play, you're already burned out. If you're thinking, "man this sucks, I really wish I was just rank X by now", you're burned out. There is plenty of content right now. No one is rank 50 in every class, therefore no one can claim they've run out of content. They only say they've run out of content they enjoy, which means they're burned out.



Progress for the sake of progress is not every MMO. FFXI I progressed for 75 because at 75 I got sea/sky/dyna so on and so on. If you read my post you see there is no motivation to get past r34. There is no sky to push me to r50, there is no CoP to push me from r20 to r30 to r50. You see where i'm going with this? There was always a reason to level up in every other MMO. In this game there isn't. There is no reason to level past r34.

Progress isn't defined by grinding every job to r50. There was motivation in FFXI to level all jobs to 75. There was motivation to get your SMN to level 50 for CoP, there was motivation to get your RDM to 75 to solo mobs for gear. That does not exist in this game period.

And the MMO at launch blah blah blah argument is done, this game has been out for three months and the only thing that's gotten better is the way the game plays. Not content, not parting, not weapons, nothing.....
#85 Dec 09 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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EzellLangor wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
I'm progressing for the sake of progressing.


Isn't that the point of any MMO? You progress through raid locks to get more raid locks. You progress through lesser gods to battle the higher gods. You progress through the story line to get more story line. You progress through levels to get more levels. The minute you're truly done progressing the game is broken. MMOs by definition have no end. You are continually progressing.

If you don't enjoy playing, it doesn't matter what the "motivation" is. You won't enjoy it when you get wherever you want to get either. If you honestly need motivation to play, you're already burned out. If you're thinking, "man this sucks, I really wish I was just rank X by now", you're burned out. There is plenty of content right now. No one is rank 50 in every class, therefore no one can claim they've run out of content. They only say they've run out of content they enjoy, which means they're burned out.



Progress for the sake of progress is not every MMO. FFXI I progressed for 75 because at 75 I got sea/sky/dyna so on and so on. If you read my post you see there is no motivation to get past r34. There is no sky to push me to r50, there is no CoP to push me from r20 to r30 to r50. You see where i'm going with this? There was always a reason to level up in every other MMO. In this game there isn't. There is no reason to level past r34.

Progress isn't defined by grinding every job to r50. There was motivation in FFXI to level all jobs to 75. There was motivation to get your SMN to level 50 for CoP, there was motivation to get your RDM to 75 to solo mobs for gear. That does not exist in this game period.

And the MMO at launch blah blah blah argument is done, this game has been out for three months and the only thing that's gotten better is the way the game plays. Not content, not parting, not weapons, nothing.....



the goals you state are reasonable for motivation to cap

BUT, remember this game is new

did FFXI have sea/sky/dynamis when it was new? no it did not, and it didnt even come close within its 3 months after

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 11:05am by Vedis
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#86 Dec 09 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:

the goals you state are reasonable for motivation to cap

BUT, remember this game is new

did FFXI have sea/sky/dynamis when it was new? no it did not, and it didnt even come close within its 3 months after

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 11:05am by Vedis



FFXI had nation quests that actually did something, hello to you windy/bastok/sandy 3-1. An epic BCNM that required, ummm level 30 if i remember correctly to access. And yes it did have that.

Now i'll agree that sea/sky/dyna didn't come out right away, but the content was still there. The motivation to level up a job was there. I got access to other things to do. It's a circular argument.

It's a new game there is no content what do you expect?

To be honest, something a lot better than the game I currently play. And judging by these forums and the server populations i'm not alone, I'm probably in the majority.
#87 Dec 09 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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EzellLangor wrote:
Vedis wrote:

the goals you state are reasonable for motivation to cap

BUT, remember this game is new

did FFXI have sea/sky/dynamis when it was new? no it did not, and it didnt even come close within its 3 months after

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 11:05am by Vedis



FFXI had nation quests that actually did something, hello to you windy/bastok/sandy 3-1. An epic BCNM that required, ummm level 30 if i remember correctly to access. And yes it did have that.

Now i'll agree that sea/sky/dyna didn't come out right away, but the content was still there. The motivation to level up a job was there. I got access to other things to do. It's a circular argument.

It's a new game there is no content what do you expect?

To be honest, something a lot better than the game I currently play. And judging by these forums and the server populations i'm not alone, I'm probably in the majority.


you are right most games do have at least 1 endgame dungeon or activity readily available(and i swear to got everyone still complains its not enough even when they do have that).

Right now, we have our storyline quests to do as we advance

in a few days, we will have our NMs throughout the game which will be something to look forward to. only time will tell how those end up being fought and such.
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#88 Dec 09 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Like, potential. Potentially, it has enourmous potential.
Exponential potential, so to speak.


Yes, I understand the concept of potential. But I wanted specifics for this game. One could say every game out there has amazing potential in a general sense, because they all do. I want to know what specific things FFXIV has going for it to justify this claim of potential here.


First of all, woosh.

But specifically what makes this game have huge potential over something like WoW in PvE is the class system. In FF14, you can have any ability of other classes, the freedom to mix and match so to speak. The subjob system was one of the things that made FFXI unique in that the makeup of your PTs and subjobs were very important to success vs HNMs and BCNMs. FFXIV extends this concept further by being able to sub abilities from any class up to a limit.

This is a very good thing.

Compare with WoW, where there are entire dungeons that are scripted. Move to spot X, then spot Y. Stop damage at 30%. Tank and spank. Don't touch the green goo, etc. Basically, if you have good gear and half a brain, you've beaten all of WoW PvE. Do a dungeon once and there is no point in going back other than to collect better gear, so you can go to the next dungeon. It gets really old. You learn how Blizzard wants you to play.

SE says to gamers: "here is a mob, you design a plan on how to beat it"
Blizzard says to gamers: "hey, we designed a plan on how to kill this boss, just do these steps, but with better gear"

That is the fundamental difference. I'm not trying to bash WoW, I actually was quite addicted to the PvP, but anybody who's played their fair share of both will know what I mean regarding endgame PvE.
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#89 Dec 09 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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@Odin

totaly agree there

One thing I always liked about FFXI endgame was that there was more of a strategy to it then a gear aspect, you could go in with totaly worthless gear and still win(just takes longer of course).
Some people looked at it as "throwing numbers at the boss" but the reality behind it is those numbers just cut down the time to kill it, you could throw all the people you had at some of the non instanced mobs, and it wouldnt be enough if you had people who didnt know what they were doing.
And as far as BCNMs went, it was all about knowing what to do too(and actualy having gear in the cases of level capped stuff) moreso then optimal gear.


With wow its "you must do this to him, and you have this long to do it, therefore you must have this much gear."
and to me, that just was draining in comparison, added to the fact that you hdad to have the numbers on top of it to take them down there was no compromising.
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#90 Dec 09 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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odinpingpong wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Like, potential. Potentially, it has enourmous potential.
Exponential potential, so to speak.


Yes, I understand the concept of potential. But I wanted specifics for this game. One could say every game out there has amazing potential in a general sense, because they all do. I want to know what specific things FFXIV has going for it to justify this claim of potential here.


First of all, woosh.

But specifically what makes this game have huge potential over something like WoW in PvE is the class system. In FF14, you can have any ability of other classes, the freedom to mix and match so to speak. The subjob system was one of the things that made FFXI unique in that the makeup of your PTs and subjobs were very important to success vs HNMs and BCNMs. FFXIV extends this concept further by being able to sub abilities from any class up to a limit.

This is a very good thing.

Compare with WoW, where there are entire dungeons that are scripted. Move to spot X, then spot Y. Stop damage at 30%. Tank and spank. Don't touch the green goo, etc. Basically, if you have good gear and half a brain, you've beaten all of WoW PvE. Do a dungeon once and there is no point in going back other than to collect better gear, so you can go to the next dungeon. It gets really old. You learn how Blizzard wants you to play.



SE says to gamers: "here is a mob, you design a plan on how to beat it"
Blizzard says to gamers: "hey, we designed a plan on how to kill this boss, just do these steps, but with better gear"

That is the fundamental difference. I'm not trying to bash WoW, I actually was quite addicted to the PvP, but anybody who's played their fair share of both will know what I mean regarding endgame PvE.



FFXI had the same thing, "citadel buster! run out!" "physical shield! melee get off!" or "he's on two legs, melee run in"!

see, once you get the strategy down its the same thing, anyone with a brain and decent gear can do FFXI endgame. its not hard at all.



Edited, Dec 9th 2010 5:50pm by Lafaiel
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#91 Dec 09 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm confused - so are you saying that FFXI and WoW are on the same level of scripting their encounters or just making a strawman argument with no point.
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#92 Dec 09 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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odinpingpong wrote:
I'm confused - so are you saying that FFXI and WoW are on the same level of scripting their encounters or just making a strawman argument with no point.


no, I'm saying they all have a strategy, be it wow or FFXI, you learn it and it becomes the same. you can call it what you want to make yourself feel more hardcore, but I did FFXI endgame for 3 years, its not harder.

wow has DBM for those that use it. FFXI you would see what was about to happen for the most part in the chat box.

in FFXI. people knew what move would be used at certain health % and for some moves just have the BLM stun.
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#93 Dec 09 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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WoW obviously has a strategy, but it's pre-defined by the developer, all the way up to specific gear requirements -> set1 for dungeon 1, set2 for dungeon 2, etc. You don't have to really think about how you approach a mob beforehand, while FFXI strategies constantly change over time as people discover better ways of doing things.

Since you played both, I'm not sure why you are arguing the point about strategic diversity and scripted encounters.

If you think it's easy, I'd be curious to know exactly what you were fighting endgame that was so easy. When CoP wyrms first came out, nobody could figure it out, and Vrtra for the longest time. How about AV? Warden? There's just nothing like that in WoW (C'Thun didn't take that long to conquer comparitively). I'm not stating my opinion that FFXI PvE is harder, it's a fact. The challenge in WoW is really only PvP.
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#94 Dec 09 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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odinpingpong wrote:
WoW obviously has a strategy, but it's pre-defined by the developer, all the way up to specific gear requirements -> set1 for dungeon 1, set2 for dungeon 2, etc. You don't have to really think about how you approach a mob beforehand, while FFXI strategies constantly change over time as people discover better ways of doing things.

Since you played both, I'm not sure why you are arguing the point about strategic diversity and scripted encounters.

If you think it's easy, I'd be curious to know exactly what you were fighting endgame that was so easy. When CoP wyrms first came out, nobody could figure it out, and Vrtra for the longest time. How about AV? Warden? There's just nothing like that in WoW (C'Thun didn't take that long to conquer comparitively). I'm not stating my opinion that FFXI PvE is harder, it's a fact. The challenge in WoW is really only PvP.


Strategies change over time as people discover better ways to do things ? Thats every single game. Im not sure what point youre trying to make there.

And im pretty sure the strategy for every boss/dungeon is predefined by the developer. . What do you want them to do, randomly make mobs and just say hey go at it ? Then youll get random content thats either way too easy or impossible that would simply be bad developing.

The biggest difference imo is ff only has end game, where as wow has content to keep you entertained all the way(although it took them YEARS to get right). And thats the biggest issue with this game by far, that theres simply no content anywhere.

#95 Dec 09 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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pamayepa wrote:
Strategies change over time as people discover better ways to do things ? Thats every single game. Im not sure what point youre trying to make there.


Have you even played WoW?

pamayepa wrote:
And im pretty sure the strategy for every boss/dungeon is predefined by the developer. . What do you want them to do, randomly make mobs and just say hey go at it ? Then youll get random content thats either way too easy or impossible that would simply be bad developing.


FFXI devs design the mob. WoW Devs design mobs and the entire strategy for beating it. There's a difference.

pamayepa wrote:
The biggest difference imo is ff only has end game, where as wow has content to keep you entertained all the way(although it took them YEARS to get right). And thats the biggest issue with this game by far, that theres simply no content anywhere.


WoW's content was basically a lot of solo questing and not much opportunity for grouping. I actually preferred FFXI's forced grouping, but I'm in the minority here. It fostered a good community.

FFXIV obviously has no content, but I was talking about game potential from a class design perspective.
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#96 Dec 09 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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odinpingpong wrote:
WoW obviously has a strategy, but it's pre-defined by the developer, all the way up to specific gear requirements -> set1 for dungeon 1, set2 for dungeon 2, etc. You don't have to really think about how you approach a mob beforehand, while FFXI strategies constantly change over time as people discover better ways of doing things.

Since you played both, I'm not sure why you are arguing the point about strategic diversity and scripted encounters.

If you think it's easy, I'd be curious to know exactly what you were fighting endgame that was so easy. When CoP wyrms first came out, nobody could figure it out, and Vrtra for the longest time. How about AV? Warden? There's just nothing like that in WoW (C'Thun didn't take that long to conquer comparitively). I'm not stating my opinion that FFXI PvE is harder, it's a fact. The challenge in WoW is really only PvP.


I understand what you're saying about FFXI just putting a mob and leaving it for the players to figure out how to beat it, that was the real challenge to the game and to the players that figured that out I do give them props.

as for what I was fighting that was easy, well pretty much everything except AV and PW, SE was still the kid with the ball for AV where they would take it and leave if you beat AV a way they did not want it beat, and PW, well my ls did not have enough people to take him on, my ls was fairly small but well geared and knew how to play. only boss that was hit or miss was bahamut V2.

I did however love FFXI party play, the combat was fun and engaging, first thing I had asked my guild in wow was if there was a place I could group and kill elites for xp like EQ2 had.

but whats done is done I guess, I really wanted FFXIV to be a good game, but its just not the kind of game I want to play right now.
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#97 Dec 09 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Default
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Sadly, this game is dead. As I have said before, I highly doubt that they ever get it to run on the PS3 reliably. So the second rush of purchases will not happen, or if it does, very few will make the plunge. Plus the mass PC exodus, makes this game dead even right now. I have played pinball games that kept my attention longer than this game.

Movies have the Razzies awards. It is time for us to choose a way to award bad video game design and implementation.

Plus it still makes me laugh that everyone thinks there is a difference between killing a boss in WoW Vs. killing a boss in FFXI. There is no difference, one encounter might be harder, or you may have the lizzy boots, but the fact remains that all of the roles stayed the same. Heal, tank, dps, and maybe some support roles - and now we are back to a pinball game that still only has 2 buttons to press. Cookie cutter meets - cookie dough

This game will always be remembered as the game that was mostly rated a 4/10 and it never progressed past that.



Edited, Dec 9th 2010 11:36pm by Parsalyn
#98 Dec 09 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not the kind of game I want to be playing right now either, but keywords being "right now"

As long as they add new content and tweak gameplay once a month they'll get it to a 9/10 rating game like FFXI sooner or later, hopefully by March. There's just way too much good 3D work for them to just throw away without at least falling back to FFXI gameplay with better gfx clone.
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#99 Dec 09 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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odinpingpong wrote:
It's not the kind of game I want to be playing right now either, but keywords being "right now"

As long as they add new content and tweak gameplay once a month they'll get it to a 9/10 rating game like FFXI sooner or later, hopefully by March. There's just way too much good 3D work for them to just throw away without at least falling back to FFXI gameplay with better gfx clone.


I dunno, unless they completely change the way combat works (and, I guess, re-do the yawn-worthy maps), I'm not sure even trying to clone FFXI will make the game fun enough...
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#100 Dec 09 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Parsalyn wrote:
it still makes me laugh that everyone thinks there is a difference between killing a boss in WoW Vs. killing a boss in FFXI. There is no difference, one encounter might be harder


I think you gave a difference right there, actually.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#101 Dec 10 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
But if you don't need to join a linkshell, then what's the point of FFXIV being an online game at all? If the game is going to be an online game, it should require you to play with and talk with other people.


Amazingly, I can hop onto even the crappiest free-to-play game and talk to/play with everyone in the game without ever needing to join a guild or any other such nonsense to do so. And that's all an LS is, SE's lame attempt at guilds.

Forcing people to either join or create a guild just to talk to other people is ridiculous.
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