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Impact of scaled equipment?Follow

#1 Dec 08 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, I know there have been a few posts now more or less about people either before for or against the optimal gear scaling in the game, but I was just thinking to myself exactly what impact does this have in its current state? Well, my initial thoughts are that it hurts the economy... Most people will just go and buy what looks good on their character or what will be good later down the line when they finally get to that rank as opposed to getting what benefits them right now. Now, most crafters probably have their money-makers figured out by now, and if you do you are most likely already a pretty decent rank at your craft. But lets think about the up-and-coming. It's very frustrating when you find something that you can skill on that's relatively easy/cheap to make, but then you find that no one is buying it even though it would be a nice piece of gear. So you NPC at a big loss. Some of you might suggest these people do some research on how often these things sell, but I think we should ask how often SHOULD they sell.

For instance, lets say someone takes up lancer. They need a body piece and they can use bone scale mail and be great with that. But then he sees a bronze/iron haub being sold by someone and he likes the look of it, so buys that instead. The higher level crafter keeps making money, the newer one struggles to make sales. It sucks. Not only that, but it would help to circulate some of those higher level ingredients needed in the lower recipes. I'm already at a nice rank on my armorer, but thinking back, there could have been plenty of opportunities to help fund my grinding sessions along the way. But with the way the system is currently, it just isn't going to happen for the most part.

Another problem tied into that is people wearing gear that isn't even optimal for their class. It's one thing you can wear a R40+ piece of equipment at rank one, but then its something that you shouldn't even be able to wear. It's retarded >.> Honestly, that takes away from the satisfaction as a player. It would help grinding make more sense to have to be at, or at least close to, the rank of the armor/weapon/tool you want to use. SE keeps mentioning goal-oriented things in this game, but one of the most basic goal-oriented concepts has been thrown out the window. I can see how anyone would be bored with the game by now when they have most of the same gear from 1-50 and feeling like there is nothing new. It's because you skipped past everything in between.

But anyway, those are my thoughts :o what do you guys think about it?
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#2klepp6761, Posted: Dec 08 2010 at 11:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think teired gear sucks. I think itemization in xi and consequently (so far) in XIV it sucks as well. Fix itemization and all will be well. Let EQ1 guide your mouse SQueeners and u shall be rewarded. Course they would need a vast amount of content to be added in order to support the vast amount of equipment being injected. (has to come from somewhere or something amirite?)
#3 Dec 08 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Just another bad game design where SE wanted to be different than FFXI. Most of the fun involved in gear is the work put into being able to equip it for the first time.

Its kind of like getting to open X-mas presents all year long...play with them...try them on...but not officially able to use them until X-mas.

I hope they change it...but I don't think there has been enough backlash...so I think they won't.
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#4 Dec 08 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think its a bad design, it just doesn't currently mesh well with the current battle system solo and party.

The nonsense penalty on dying is one of the things that made the scaling fail. Because you don't get penalized in KO, except for the 3 minute weakened state, player's don't need to get better equipment to protect themselves. If they would implement XP loss/delevel system again, I will be sure that players will start to gear accordingly to the level.

If they could make the party system really work in similar terms to XI, then players may be expected to wear the appropriate gear to make party run efficiently.

And maybe of SE would implement negative effects on wearing inappropriate gear, you would not see a lot of people trying to be wear pretty but currently useless gears. Negative effects like a caster wearing heavy armor will have longer recast time...etc.
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#5 Dec 08 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
And maybe of SE would implement negative effects on wearing inappropriate gear, you would not see a lot of people trying to be wear pretty but currently useless gears. Negative effects like a caster wearing heavy armor will have longer recast time...etc.


If they're gonna do that they may as well just cap the gear...i don't see any reason why they'd make it like this, i think its a stupid idea. Like someone else said, in XI I use to work my way up to certain levels in anticipation of certain gear - it was fun when you reach level 20 or 30 or whatever and you're rewarded by trying on a new set of gear...that all goes out the window with FFXIV.
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#7 Dec 08 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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msconduct wrote:
In FFXI when you saw someone in a Kirin's Osode or any high level gear, you knew he was badass and experienced. Now, any ******* can put on any piece of gear. Rediculous.
I dunno.

I think it makes it easier to spot idiots. See higher ranked gear, check player, see significantly lower ranked player.
Now you know they're an idiot.
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#8 Dec 08 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
And maybe of SE would implement negative effects on wearing inappropriate gear, you would not see a lot of people trying to be wear pretty but currently useless gears. Negative effects like a caster wearing heavy armor will have longer recast time...etc.


If they're gonna do that they may as well just cap the gear...i don't see any reason why they'd make it like this, i think its a stupid idea. Like someone else said, in XI I use to work my way up to certain levels in anticipation of certain gear - it was fun when you reach level 20 or 30 or whatever and you're rewarded by trying on a new set of gear...that all goes out the window with FFXIV.


It's all in the mindset for me. I don't wear the next gear even if its pretty and cute if I discover that it doesn't give me better stats. Sure I could wear them, but I won't. And I still treat it as something to achieve and work for just to be able to wear the next pretty thing and find it useful in my playing activities at the same time.

Putting in negative buffs is not the same as capping it. Think of it as the ceremonial dresses that the military and other army institutions wear. You wear them to look good, but you won't wear them for battle.
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#9 Dec 08 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In FFXI when you saw someone in a Kirin's Osode or any high level gear, you knew he was badass and experienced. Now, any ******* can put on any piece of gear. Rediculous.


Or he could also be a d-bag that jerked his LS when lotting for the k.osode :p

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 10:41am by MikaelCS
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#11 Dec 08 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I'm glad to see so many positive responses ^^ I thought I mighta' been part of just a small few who were bothered by it. Hopefully this can start some protests for level restricted gear and have SE do something about it >.>

Me, personally, I'd say you have to be within 5 levels at least if they would keep the same system ... Thats pretty much when the higher level gear will -start- to get better than previous stuff. For crafting tools, anyway.
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#12 Dec 08 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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If SE didn't create such a terrible, terrible UI, I think this problem would be less of a problem. And also, if armor didn't scale so well if you are way, way lower level than it. I have been trying to put my finger on an equation or something to see how gear scales, but it seems to be changing as you rank up, and also, the different gear types make it difficult to analyze accurately.

Overall, I do agree it is dumb you can just kind of wear whatever, but at the same time, I kind of like it. My Glad is 37, and it is nice to just be able to keep wearing the plate I made on my other jobs. I don't have enough inventory space to lug around 5 sets of gear.

Overall, a UI that was more clear, and actually told you what the **** was happening when you equipped stuff would benefit the game. Also, it seems there needs to be larger penalties to higher ranked gear than there currently is.

I mean, overall, this game needs a 10 times over in basically every aspect. Gear, class balance, abilities, content, difficulty, I mean, the list goes on and on.

Another thing, is they need more choices in gear. I know my lancer just hit 18 and was looking at another weapon past 16, the next on isn't until 26. That is way too large of a gap to wait. They need to add more stuff, and more variety.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 4:37pm by MattVid6
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#13 Dec 08 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Default
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I'm convinced the random SP system and scaled equipment were both originally conceived as "Level Sync" features--but they fail(ed) miserably.

#14 Dec 08 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I said it before, I'll say it again... I think you shouldn't be able to equip the gear until you're within 5 ranks of it. Being able to wear R50 gear even if it's not effective really hurts the experience for me. Having said that I think all gear should scale down once you can equip it on your class so they can impliment things like leveling with your lower ranked friends.
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#15 Dec 08 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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DragonXeZ wrote:
Well, I'm glad to see so many positive responses ^^ I thought I mighta' been part of just a small few who were bothered by it. Hopefully this can start some protests for level restricted gear and have SE do something about it >.>

Me, personally, I'd say you have to be within 5 levels at least if they would keep the same system ... Thats pretty much when the higher level gear will -start- to get better than previous stuff. For crafting tools, anyway.


Honestly, atm I would say don't worry about it. I'm willing to bet there will be RSEs and Class specific gear and probably some armor like AF that will be capped and restricted to certain players.
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#16 Dec 08 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate it. It cheapens job ranks, gear, everything. It's especially annoying considering the reason S-E gave for not having a "hide helm" option is that they "wanted players to look like what they are by the gear they wear". So their solution is to just let anyone wear anything? Stupid.
#17 Dec 08 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, you can wear anything you want at Rank 1, but anyone who plays the game for the enjoyment of it should know better than to do that. For instance, my body is optimal rank 21, which I am. Now even something optimal rank 23 is penalized enough that it's not worth wearing.

So even though you can wear anything you want, it still makes a huge difference to wear gear close to your optimal rank. If you want enjoyment on working towards new gear, you can still get that sense of achievement when you equip that new body piece and your stats go up, not down. Other people deciding to wear gear way too high for them is their choice, and shouldn't depreciate the sense of achievement you gain by finally upgrading your equipment.

Just look at them and think, "Wow they have no idea how this whole system works," or "Wow maybe they're really high ranked." I actually ask people if they know, and if they say "Yeah but this looks so much cooler" I just stop trying to convince them.

I'm sure the majority of people, myself included, try to stick to gear close to the optimal rank, and I know I still feel that I have achieved something when I upgrade my gear, even if I'm in a party of 20's with everyone wearing optimal rank 47 gear.

Quote:
In FFXI when you saw someone in a Kirin's Osode or any high level gear, you knew he was badass and experienced. Now, any ******* can put on any piece of gear. Rediculous.


Technically, now if you see someone wearing gear that is appropriate for their rank, you know they're experienced enough to know the difference. Rank20, all Rank 47 gear? Probably not thinking about it. Rank20, all Rank 20-26 gear? Probably knows what they're doing.

At least, that's my opinion :)
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#18 Dec 08 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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For those that missed it in the other thread, SE's reasoning behind this system is simple. Personally I think this mechanic is unavoidable given the class system in XIV. If you don't want to carry 50 pieces of gear or be left fighting naked, you must be able to equip high level gear on a low level char.

Put it this way, you'd be complaining a whole lot more if gear didn't scale in this game when you went to switch classes from an r50 job to one at r5 in the field.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 5:54pm by Jefro420
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#19 Dec 08 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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yeah... being naked actually wouldn't be as bad as having to equip every piece of gear AGAIN. I mean seriously, am I the only person who sometimes justs wants to toss on a hatchet and scythe for some free BOT SP and vendor junk without having to equip/re-equip etc? I like the gear system as is.

I generally keep things within 5 levels unless I just can't be damned to carry that tier anymore. Like I am using my canvas half-gloves on my cul even though it is a +6 rank difference but I got rid of the cotton half-gloves cause lets face it, I couldn't be bothered to have 3 pairs of half-gloves on me and the canvas gloves only cost 7K to repair at npc.

The other exception is my warded round shield on my R11 GLA - yeah ... 9 ranks too low. But I can repair it myself - and it looks badass. I also don't really give a **** if it gives me the best stats since at my rank, and with my physical level, the difference would be negligible. And it looks cool. So there.

I feel like half the reason people have a problem with this comes down to e-peen. I don't really think the inconvenience changing this would cause is outweighed by some people's need to have an easy way to measure e-peen.

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#20 Dec 08 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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No, I also hate it. It's just not fine to see the world run around in Iron Haubergeons, just because
the rank difference penalty does not cover stat increases (like the +STR). Like another poster said:
it's like handing out Christmas Presents way before Christmas. ^.^/
#21 Dec 08 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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The class-locked/level-locked gear gotta be the dumbest idea for the RPG genre overall. You can't wear a pair of cotton robe because you're not a mage? You can't wear that shiny plate armour because you're not high level i.e. old enough? So all the shiny plated armour knight must be old guys in their 60s or 70s? I certainly didn't see any complain when people play Oblivion and can wear any armour at any level and do anything that's available to them. If you think you can fight naked, sure, stand naked before a Mountain Peiste and let it sneezes, see if you still want to fight naked. Maybe it's time you stop farming that Coblyn for "optimal SP" and do some real fight?
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#22 Dec 08 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
I certainly didn't see any complain when people play Oblivion and can wear any armour at any level and do anything that's available to them.


However oblivion did have greater penalties for things like spellcasters wearing full plate (or was it just if they didn't have it leveled... it is getting blurry in my mind.) In D+D you could wear w/e on every class but there was pretty hefty penalties. I don't think it is unreasonable to question whether or not it would be worthwhile for SE to put penalties like that in place.

but according to rank... not so much. If my memory serves me correctly you can use whatever item you can find in D+D as long as you have the training or whatnot/doesn't conflict with your class/alignment. I don't see why that is such a bad thing.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 3:36pm by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#23 Dec 08 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
In XI, i always bought my gear ahead of time. This way, i could equip it as soon as i hit the required level. I still hated the fact that i couldn't "try it on" before i leveled. I can in XIV. I have gear up to lvl 36 atm, but i never fight in it. I only wear it while running around town, since it's something different. alot of people did the same thing in XI.
There really isn't anything wrong with the systtem. If lvl 14 players are fighting in their Bronze Hauby's, then remember to put that name on your /blist and move on. You don't have to wear it, and can still look forward to the point that you can wear it effectively.
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#24 Dec 08 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not about realism. It's about carrots and donkeys.
I want my carrot. Or rather, I want it to be held in front of me lonk enough to look like the most tasty carrot the world has ever seen.

Btw, the statement
Quote:
There really isn't anything wrong with the systtem. If lvl 14 players are fighting in their Bronze Hauby's, then remember to put that name on your /blist and move on.

Is pretty wrong; firstly, the current scaling system does not scale stat boni (meaning you'll still get the full +STR), and secondly, a group of dedicated japanese testers found out that way down to LV 12, that Haubergeon is the best deal you can strike for defense value totals. Try it.

*If* you can read it, here's the link: http://ff14n.wikiwiki.jp/?%C1%F5%C8%F7%C5%AC%C0%B5%B0%EC%CD%F7

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 6:44pm by Rinsui
#25 Dec 08 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
It's not about realism. It's about carrots and donkeys.
I want my carrot. Or rather, I want it to be held in front of me lonk enough to look like the most tasty carrot the world has ever seen.

Btw, the statement
Quote:
There really isn't anything wrong with the systtem. If lvl 14 players are fighting in their Bronze Hauby's, then remember to put that name on your /blist and move on.

Is pretty wrong; firstly, the current scaling system does not scale stat boni (meaning you'll still get the full +STR), and secondly, a group of dedicated japanese testers found out that way down to LV 12, that Haubergeon is the best deal you can strike for defense value totals. Try it.

*If* you can read it, here's the link: http://ff14n.wikiwiki.jp/?%C1%F5%C8%F7%C5%AC%C0%B5%B0%EC%CD%F7

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 6:44pm by Rinsui


DEF is not everything you know, there is also Evasion and M.Def as well. And what's wrong with optimising gears for certain aspect? That's even more itemisation rather than locking class A to wear X armour.

SE have put many Diremite around now, those can OHKO many low lvl wearing inappropriate gears. That alone should teach people not to wear that shiny Star-spangled Subligar around when fighting :P
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#26 Dec 08 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Default
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Whatever... really?

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 6:52pm by asdwx
#27 Dec 08 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
DEF is not everything you know, there is also Evasion and M.Def as well.


You missed the ball again. Of course, both of those scale in the same way - making the LV 27
Haubergeon *the* choice @LV 12. There's a reason for why everyone is wearing it. Besides,
as I said, stat bonuses don't scale at all. Merry Christmas. Sounds about right to say that,
since it's already December.
#28 Dec 08 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Rinsui wrote:
It's not about realism. It's about carrots and donkeys.
I want my carrot. Or rather, I want it to be held in front of me lonk enough to look like the most tasty carrot the world has ever seen.

Btw, the statement
Quote:
There really isn't anything wrong with the systtem. If lvl 14 players are fighting in their Bronze Hauby's, then remember to put that name on your /blist and move on.

Is pretty wrong; firstly, the current scaling system does not scale stat boni (meaning you'll still get the full +STR), and secondly, a group of dedicated japanese testers found out that way down to LV 12, that Haubergeon is the best deal you can strike for defense value totals. Try it.

*If* you can read it, here's the link: http://ff14n.wikiwiki.jp/?%C1%F5%C8%F7%C5%AC%C0%B5%B0%EC%CD%F7

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 6:44pm by Rinsui


when i equip my hauby at rank 21, i get +2 def over my lvl 17 piece. My level 17 piece has 50 def, compared to the hauby's 85 def. Also, i lose a lot of M def, and evasion. I'm not saying it won't work, but i am saying that it isn't really ideal, according to my own testing. It really comes down to what you are doing when you decide what gear to put on.
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#29 Dec 08 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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You are correct; there is a "middle range" where the appropriate gear actually
outperforms the Hauby (which is also visible in the table I linked). But @ ranks
12-18, 22 and 24-27 the Hauby is the best piece available for pure tanking. And
don't forget the stat increases...

Also, the LV 17 piece you're talking about most likely is the grey jerkin, which
happens to be Marauder only.
#30 Dec 08 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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I don't much like it either. As someone else said, If there was a penalty for wearing gear outside your range then people would actually gear accordingly. Personally i hate the way my character looks right now but i will keep the current gear because it offers the most DEF for my rank. Oh how i hate the canvas tunic xD

What really bothers me is how some pieces of gear don't show/hide things properly. For example when im wearing a a short sleeved shirt it should keep the long-sleeved undershirt underneath it.. Maybe its just me but it seems kind of dumb that it just vanishes.
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#31 Dec 08 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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Shredmastah wrote:
I don't much like it either. As someone else said, If there was a penalty for wearing gear outside your range then people would actually gear accordingly.


What do you mean? There is a penalty for wearing not favoured/under optimal rank.
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#32 Dec 08 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Nobody is forced to wear extremely overranked Gear. In fact I "maintained" myself the progress feeling by not wearing overranked gear on purpose. From Rank 1-10 I went with starting gear, after that I made me some Rank 12-18 Gear and wore that til like Rank 24. Then I made me the full Bronze Chain set for Rank 27 and wore that til Rank 36 now. Just yesterday I switched to Full Plate set. This is my way of "giving me that progress feeling".

For my crafts for example...I never bought any tools I knew I would be able to make myself at some point. So as soon as I hit that Rank to synth me that tool and I synthed it, it gave me that "progress feeling" as well.

It's all about how you want to play the game.

I was going with Iron Dagger from Rank 27 up to 36 for example, although I was able to synth me my Iron Falchion since Gladiator 31 or something. I was able to synth me Full Plate set when I was like 28 Gladiator...but I still waited til I hit 35/36 with my Gladiator before synthing and wearing it. I like the feeling of progress and since FFXIV is not giving it to me by designing it that way, I just do it myself.

Quote:
What do you mean? There is a penalty for wearing not favoured/under optimal rank.


The problem is...the penalty is just not significant enough so people wear appropriate gear. The biggest difference is still the Rank of your class...I just hope once you reach Rank 50 and get "Rank 50 gear only", that you can actually see some differences in the gear by DMG you get, or DMG you deal etc. Cause right now...Rank is pretty much the biggest factor on DMG taken and DMG dealt etc and I don't like that design as well.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 1:12am by Shezard
#33 Dec 08 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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I like the way it is right now. It took awhile to find an ideal outfit that I envisioned for my character to wear and now it is part of its identity. So what if some pieces are much higher and some penalty occurs? This game doesn't care, you'll operate just fine in it.

If you want to blame something, blame the battle design. This is not XI, so get that out of your heads right now. Having an active fatigue bar means forget anything along the lines of + haste, + double attack, everything you once knew cause it will never happen here. This is it, what you see now is what you get. I even seriously doubt there will be anything more than the status effect boons on weapons you already see on the daggers due to how they designed damage types (physical, magical, blunt, slashing, ect.) so no + wind or fire damage either.

I like the way I look so much this is probably what I'm going to wear all the way until they raise the level cap months later, even these new armor sets don't appeal to me. If they come out with weapons, however, I'll loot ***** those.
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#34 Dec 08 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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On a more pragmatic level...

can you imagine having level-locked pieces of equipment for each of your 5-6 different leveled classes, each at a different level?

Inventory nightmare!
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#35 Dec 08 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Shredmastah wrote:
I don't much like it either. As someone else said, If there was a penalty for wearing gear outside your range then people would actually gear accordingly. <------


What do you mean? There is a penalty for wearing not favoured/under optimal rank.



Hehehehe...this pretty much sums up the reason people wear gear outside your range. If you check out the differences by actually switching the equipment, it can be a pretty big penalty, though the double whammy of non-class favored plus out of level range really shafts you.
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#36 Dec 08 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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So you can equip items below optimum level and still get bonus for it.
And that is bad because...?

Someone mentioned Haubergeon is gear of choice from R12 onwards.
Ok, so we rank-lock it.
Since from R12 we already get bonus from it, instead of optimum R27, let's lock it as R12 and above.

What difference does that make?

Quote:
In FFXI when you saw someone in a Kirin's Osode or any high level gear, you knew he was badass and experienced. Now, any ******* can put on any piece of gear. Rediculous.

Sure in this game you can equip an Osode at rank one, but how are you going to get into a Kirin party at rank 1?
Sure you can leech but if that is what you mean any game can do that.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 2:18am by Thervius
#37 Dec 08 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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It's lame because in a world where any noob can wear LV 50 equipment, it becomes
hard to tell at first sight who is what. You always have to manually check.

Quote:
Someone mentioned Haubergeon is gear of choice from R12 onwards.
Ok, so we rank-lock it.
Since from R12 we already get bonus from it, instead of optimum R27, let's lock it as R12 and above.


Cool idea. I kinda like the idea that for 15 levels, everybody will look the same.
#38 Dec 08 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
It's lame because in a world where any noob can wear LV 50 equipment, it becomes hard to tell at first sight who is what. You always have to manually check.


It's lame because in MMORPGs people just look at gear and say noob/pro/whatever, when the most you do is just spend time playing to get those "statuses". Not to mention "shortcuts".
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#40 Dec 09 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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msconduct wrote:
Khornette wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
It's lame because in a world where any noob can wear LV 50 equipment, it becomes hard to tell at first sight who is what. You always have to manually check.


It's lame because in MMORPGs people just look at gear and say noob/pro/whatever, when the most you do is just spend time playing to get those "statuses". Not to mention "shortcuts".



That's what the basis of every mmo is, if you dont like it then you can go play another genre.


Or you can tell those type of people to go F themselves!
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#41 Dec 09 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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What this seems to be boiling down to is worrying way too much about what everyone else is doing. If someone wants to wear the wrong piece of gear because it looks cool go right ahead and let them. You probably aren't grouping with them in the first place so it doesn't hurt you in any way and even if you are, by chance, in their group I guarantee you can't tell a game-breaking difference in their performance just because they're in sub-optimal gear.

And as for it robbing you of the sense of "dinging" into new gear... you do realize just because you can equip the item early doesn't mean you have to... right? It's the exact same as in FFXI or any other MMO with hard-capped gear except you're free to try on the gear before having to hit the optimal rank first. I for one like FFXIV's less rigid class system. It saves on precious inventory space and time, among other things.
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#42 Dec 09 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
What this seems to be boiling down to is worrying way too much about what everyone else is doing. If someone wants to wear the wrong piece of gear because it looks cool go right ahead and let them. You probably aren't grouping with them in the first place so it doesn't hurt you in any way and even if you are, by chance, in their group I guarantee you can't tell a game-breaking difference in their performance just because they're in sub-optimal gear.

And as for it robbing you of the sense of "dinging" into new gear... you do realize just because you can equip the item early doesn't mean you have to... right? It's the exact same as in FFXI or any other MMO with hard-capped gear except you're free to try on the gear before having to hit the optimal rank first. I for one like FFXIV's less rigid class system. It saves on precious inventory space and time, among other things.


Yup. All that.

I've got gear available to me out the ****. It's looking feasible that this weekend could see me making my very first Cavalry Haubergeon. I like the looks of those guys. It's like a bronze/iron hauby but with metal shoulder guards. I dig it. Am I going to be wearing one around at rank 20? **** no. Even though I could repair it myself I'm still not going to be wearing one until I'm approaching the appropriate rank to do so.

The thing a lot of you seem to have forgotten is that right now you're crying about leveling gear. That's it. We're JUST starting to see how SE is going to work at least some aspects of endgame gear (ie. tokens). Starting to remind me a lot of WoW's tiered raid set tokens if you ask me. And if SE is smart and makes them untradable, you'll have your carrots and your donkeys and people will still have a relaxed system with which to keep their half dozen classes geared without having to hire a retainer just to carry everything.

Big picture, guys. Mid-rank leveling gear is not worth getting so ******* worked up over. Seriously. It's not endgame. It's not min-max time. It's none of that. Pull your heads out and look around. It doesn't ******* matter what other people are doing and if you want the "incentive" to level up, don't let yourself equip the gear until you're at or above the optimal rank. You don't need SE playing parent, do you?
#43 Dec 09 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
I certainly didn't see any complain when people play Oblivion and can wear any armour at any level and do anything that's available to them.


Oblivion was also a single player experience, one that on my second playthrough I cheated and used trainers on so I could fully experience everything the game had to offer on my second try.

In an MMO just as in life there are status symbols. You WANT Richard Bransons houses and you want Jay Lenos cars, more than likely you'll never have them or at least on the same scale. In an MMO I want the gear that some one at end game has on, and unlike in real life I have a very high chance of obtaining it. However giving badass gear to low rank players demystifies the experience slightly for some of us.

I'm hoping that the NMs and maybe end game leves or content will net some untradable gearsets that will fill the current void that's left by the equip anything on anyone system.
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#44 Dec 09 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Most of the badass gear isn't in the game yet, we have gear that's mearly functional at the moment. I have a feeling that the badass gear will be limited by rank and class.
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#45 Dec 09 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Most of the badass gear isn't in the game yet, we have gear that's mearly functional at the moment. I have a feeling that the badass gear will be limited by rank and class.


If this is the case I better get a mog house with mannequins to go with them.
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#46 Dec 09 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
For those that missed it in the other thread, SE's reasoning behind this system is simple. Personally I think this mechanic is unavoidable given the class system in XIV. If you don't want to carry 50 pieces of gear or be left fighting naked, you must be able to equip high level gear on a low level char.

Put it this way, you'd be complaining a whole lot more if gear didn't scale in this game when you went to switch classes from an r50 job to one at r5 in the field.

Edited, Dec 8th 2010 5:54pm by Jefro420


why exactly? I'm under the impression that a rank 5 class dressed in rank 50 gear is gimped compared to one dressed in rank 5 gear. So how is this any different than FFXI? go back to your retainer and get a new set of gear. Of course, I know the selling point of the game is that you can change jobs on the fly, so in that case going back to the city every time you want to change classes is stupid, but can easily be fixed by making it so you can summon your retainer from camps for example or make it so chocobos can be summoned anywhere and can carry gear for you....anything but what they have now.
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#47 Dec 09 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I certainly didn't see any complain when people play Oblivion and can wear any armour at any level and do anything that's available to them.


Oblivion was also a single player experience, one that on my second playthrough I cheated and used trainers on so I could fully experience everything the game had to offer on my second try.

In an MMO just as in life there are status symbols. You WANT Richard Bransons houses and you want Jay Lenos cars, more than likely you'll never have them or at least on the same scale. In an MMO I want the gear that some one at end game has on, and unlike in real life I have a very high chance of obtaining it. However giving badass gear to low rank players demystifies the experience slightly for some of us.

I'm hoping that the NMs and maybe end game leves or content will net some untradable gearsets that will fill the current void that's left by the equip anything on anyone system.


And how do you define that "low" rank player? For all I know, that guy can be pretty much higher rank than you in another class/classes. The key here is that you WANT. Other people also WANT, and WANT it ASAP. For instance if person A have already grinded their **** to cap on all class except the class you're on, it's very justifying to let that guy don the top gear of your class. For all I know, locking that gear off him just simply because he hasn't get said level of said class can demystify the experience slightly for him. After all, he is technically "more elite" than you.

And that Haubergeon is hardly a status symbol at all. At the moment only a few are considered somewhat like Vintage Scale Mail and Vintage Haubergeon etc. because they are relatively limited in term of number. And if the guy has that, he has all the right to wear it at any level, to show off his wealth. Once the NM update is here, people will consider those equipment set as the new status symbol. If the guy has it, he has every right to wear it at any level to distinct himself from "lowlies".
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#48 Dec 09 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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If he has a means to acquire it, he must already have done what is necessary to get it (be it killing an NM, gather lots of gil, etc).
If anything, if someone is wearing it at a lower rank than you, it shows that he is better than you.

If it drops from a NM, it means he has killed it at a lower rank than you.
If it is a relatively expensive gear, it means he has acquired the amount faster than you.

Those who are looking for their e-peen to be stroke can now do it earlier instead of waiting for the optimum rank. Hooray!
#49 Dec 10 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not a fan of it, it's one of those things that keeps me from being absorbed into the game. When I see everybody running around with the same gear on, whether they're wearing it for aesthetic reasons or for combat, it makes the world seem that much more bland and dull.

Going from rags to riches is fun, and feels rewarding, the current system doesn't feel rewarding to me, I liked the Level Sync feature in FFXI, where you could wear a piece of gear at a lower level, but you had to get to a certain level to wear it in the first place.
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#50 Dec 10 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:
It took awhile to find an ideal outfit that I envisioned for my character to wear and now it is part of its identity.

Same, I absolutely love the way the Sheepskin pot helm and it's derivatives look on a mi'qote. So I will be wearing one with all my non-mage classes.
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#51 Dec 10 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:
Going from rags to riches is fun, and feels rewarding


It is not, guy A wastes time to grind GLA/MRD/LNC/ARC/CON/THM to 50 and start grinding PUG from scratch. You force him to wear rags while he's a billionaire, it's certainly is not rewarding at all. The fact that the game allows you to level each and every classes mean that going from rags to riches argument does not hold weight here. And if you force people to wear gears of their level/class, you will see even more people running around in the exact same gear because they can not choose to wear different gears like the current system.
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