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EDITORIAL: Time for an Auction HouseFollow

#152 Dec 09 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
It's incredibly shortsighted and insensitive to increase the taxes on items in the wrong wards until they let you have more than one retainer.


This.

It's absolutely insipid for them to punish players for doing it wrong when the system is set up in such a way where it is impossible for most players to do it right.

The vast majority of players are going to have a variety of goods to sell. I don't understand how they think the options of "You can't sell all your goods", "We're going to charge penalties for being in the wrong place" or "Pay a couple extra bucks a month" are considered acceptable options in a game that was supposed to be marketed as "casual friendly".

Seriously, for a game that is allegedly designed for casual players with time constraints, the system of buying and selling is decidedly anti-casual and severely time consuming.

But hey, it's not like anyone needs to buy and sell items in an MMORPG, right? At least the economy is only a minor part of the game.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 9:29pm by Mikhalia
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#153 Dec 09 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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GOD no I don't want to write editorials. Give me database monkey work any day Smiley: thumbsup
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#154 Dec 09 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Give me database monkey work any day


(Points his finger at Wint (index not middle) and invokes an spell.)

Your a monkey now, get back to work in the basement on the data.
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#155 Dec 09 2010 at 10:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Well ****, Wint, I was banking on you to write those level 30+ editorials!

To the grindstone I go...
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#156 Dec 09 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe SE should just add a new job to the game - Personal Shopper. The harder/more obscure an item is to find, the more SP you gain upon delivery to the requestor. Of course you can't gain any SP if you don't find the item on a ward retainer or if you are buying the item for personal use.

#157 Dec 09 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I quit because of no ah and may come back if they implement one. Got sick of using level one gear and weapons with no easy way to find new stuff.
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#158 Dec 10 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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You rock, Thayos!

Also, if anyone wants to write an editorial, but is a little worried about taking on the craft, I did write up a little starter guide to writing a while back: Beginner's Guide to DotP.
#159 Dec 10 2010 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Lafaiel wrote:
klepp6761 wrote:
more qq about the ah? LOL wow, if even a fraction of squeenix devs were half as persistant in regard to making a good game as you guys are about rehashing a system thats only quality is the promotion of solitide, laziness, rmt, cgf, and price scalping.... we would be doing much better than we are!!

that said, the game isnt just about omg im lvl 50 look at me!! im so uber tough online11! try incorporating shopping into your playtime, you just may walk away with a uber peice of gear for a good price before the other guy with the more primitive mindset who refused to "shop"

better yet, ever seen an AH that will let you pay 1/2 in cash and 1/2 in mats? I didnt think so. Now with no AH you can interact and "barter" with individuals should u choose.

All an ah promotes is undercutting, without one you can actually negotiate a deal with ssomeone or even wheel n deal your way to a fortune.

I know the VAST majority of you are either too young to remember or played wow as your first MMO BUT if you were fortunate enough to play eq1 then you probably agree with my vantage point. for those that did not, ask a group of EQ1 vets what their fondest memory/memories were/are.... they will 9/10 times tell you the "east commonlands tunnel" or the place where 100's of players instead of being out grinding nonstop to swing around their epeens to prove how much time they avoid showering, actually sold items, traded items, or waited huours on end for someone to pop up auctioning off that specific sword or peice of armor they were after.

touche'



ah, but the key words there are hundreds of players trading items, FFXIV does not have players in the wards, they have retainers, you can't barter with a retainer, a retainer isn't crying thier wares so you can shoot them a tell, they just stand there oblivious to your existence. thats the difference between EQ and FFXI market system.

if FFXIV forced people to sell thier stuff instead of just offloading thier goods on a retainer and logging for the night it would be a fair comparison.



Edited, Dec 9th 2010 1:38am by Lafaiel

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 1:39am by Lafaiel



touche' for sure. I didnt say I particularly enjoyed the idea of buying from a bot or selling as a bot. definate fail. However I do appreciate the fact that if I can set my epeen aside for 10 minutes and browse retainers I might find a uber weapon that is only on that "one single retainer" before the guy who just "refuses to waste his time in a virtual world" doing anything but whacking virtual monsters.

that said, just as many if not more people sell in their bazaar than in the markets. bazaars are the person and I bet you 9/10 they are more than glad to wheel and deal/negotiate over letting the games comission eat 10% of their potential profit anyhow =p
#160 Dec 10 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Your perceived ivory tower of economic superiority is only in your head.

Well said. Stick your tycoon fantasies in the forge.
Chances are there's not enough manhood in your pants to follow the original quote's recommendation.

Quote:
ask a group of EQ1 vets what their fondest memory/memories were/are (...) or waited huours on end for someone to pop up auctioning off that specific sword or peice of armor they were after


A splendid idea! For those who miss NM camping, SE could introduce a system that allows people to camp Retainers!
Brilliant, Sir! The golden Banana is yours!

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 1:26am by Rinsui


lol listen to this clown. I dont even have to say a word LOL. anyhow, return to wow, even crafting there is one click gratification. your old lady can appreciate that ^^ if you have one =(

ok sorry i didnt mean to stoop to your level. i didnt, really, sorry. i promise. im sorry.
#161 Dec 10 2010 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Whales wrote:
klepp6761 wrote:
more qq about the ah? LOL wow, if even a fraction of squeenix devs were half as persistant in regard to making a good game as you guys are about rehashing a system thats only quality is the promotion of solitide, laziness, rmt, cgf, and price scalping.... we would be doing much better than we are!!

that said, the game isnt just about omg im lvl 50 look at me!! im so uber tough online11! try incorporating shopping into your playtime, you just may walk away with a uber peice of gear for a good price before the other guy with the more primitive mindset who refused to "shop"

better yet, ever seen an AH that will let you pay 1/2 in cash and 1/2 in mats? I didnt think so. Now with no AH you can interact and "barter" with individuals should u choose.

All an ah promotes is undercutting, without one you can actually negotiate a deal with ssomeone or even wheel n deal your way to a fortune.

I know the VAST majority of you are either too young to remember or played wow as your first MMO BUT if you were fortunate enough to play eq1 then you probably agree with my vantage point. for those that did not, ask a group of EQ1 vets what their fondest memory/memories were/are.... they will 9/10 times tell you the "east commonlands tunnel" or the place where 100's of players instead of being out grinding nonstop to swing around their epeens to prove how much time they avoid showering, actually sold items, traded items, or waited huours on end for someone to pop up auctioning off that specific sword or peice of armor they were after.

course in the world of FF itemization isnt what it is elsewhere. in eq there are more off hand weapons than there are peices of equipment total in FF.

touche'


Good lord man, the retainer / market ward system is terrible and an auction house would be an 10,000x improvement over what we have now. Instead of talking down to your fellow players and basically calling them dumb for not "lol bartering", try understanding why what we have now is so awful in comparison to a basic MMO auction house and why we complain.

Your perceived ivory tower of economic superiority is only in your head.


no one is talking down to anyone for one, for two apart from being a non crafter with 30 million gil, I dont think im economically superior to anyone. I ASSUME? thats alot for a non crafter, but it could be average, I dont make it a habit of asking around about everyones financial standing. That said, the majority of that wasnt even earned via the means we are discussing. All I'm saying is that for those who speak from experience, there's nothing more to say. Ignorance is bliss. For those who dont, step back and create a non bias'd bullet list. There are many more cons than pro's created by adding an AH as opposed to improving the current system. (which does have its shortcomings, I agree completely)

Its kinda like the "war on drugs" go team reagan or nixon or whoever had that bright idea. ie: lets create revenue, misery, crime, and a black market, and jam pack our jails with meaningless "criminals" when we could have gotten that same revenue by making them legal, and taxing them ourselves all while saving prison cells for real criminals, eliminating the black market and crime, and making a large portion of the population 10x happier in their private/recreational life. well sorta LOL
#162 Dec 29 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree, it's time for Auction House. Squre Enix had their chance, we were force to play without auction house and they recently added search function which still sadly doesn't cut it. Leaving this as it stands can benifit, no effort goes without accomplished. Give us our auction house who cares if people drive prices up.


I PREFER TO SPENT 50K INSTEAD OF 30K IF THAT SAVES ME HOURS OF LOOKING

It's easy to find items that goes without saying but it's time cunsuming. No one is saying market wands are terrible, just very frustrating at times
#163 Jan 01 2011 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
Frankly I've already adjusted to the idea of a no AH game.

However, from the wording of the first player's poll (just released) it appears that SE might be conceeding on that point and ultimately introducing an AH.
#164 Jan 02 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...
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#165 Jan 02 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I haven't read the enitre thread but i dont think the economy is ready for AH yet, im still adjusting to not being able to sell my silver ore for 5k a piece which I used to have no problem doing. These price adjustments need to occur slowly and implementing AH should be smooth and seamless at the moment it would come with a big crash bang wallop smack in the economy's face.
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#166 Jan 02 2011 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Not having an AH (or something similar -- the Market wards do NOT count), is a deal killer for me. I can overlook just about everything else wrong with FFXIV (most of which has been fixed, or looks like it will be fixed at some point in the future). I'll seriously reconsider not buying the game should they put in an AH. Hear that, SE? More profit for you if you give me what I'm looking for.
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#167 Jan 02 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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TheRealDestian wrote:
I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...

^^ this

The one change I'd like to see to the wards is for the items that show up on the search screen with a 0 to show what ward they are in.
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#168 Jan 02 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...
^^ this
That's implying that you could see the price people are selling for, which I don't really want either. FFXI's auction house had a price history and didn't show the current selling prices. It wasn't by any stretch a perfect system, but that aspect was done right.
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#169 Jan 02 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...
^^ this
That's implying that you could see the price people are selling for, which I don't really want either. FFXI's auction house had a price history and didn't show the current selling prices. It wasn't by any stretch a perfect system, but that aspect was done right.


I disagree, the problem with FFXI's AH was the price history. It's the reason all the undercutting happened, with the current system we don't have that problem. We can currently see what people are selling for, but only at each retainer. That mechanic needs to stay in the game IMO.

The only way I would support the addition of an AH at this point would be if the first item listed was the first item sold rather than the lowest priced item selling first. That opens up a whole new can of worms though when the first listed item is priced way too high.

It's taken a while to get used to the concept of the wards, but honestly I think they are the ideal solution with a few tweeks.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 1:25pm by Jefro420
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#170 Jan 02 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
Not having an AH (or something similar -- the Market wards do NOT count), is a deal killer for me. I can overlook just about everything else wrong with FFXIV (most of which has been fixed, or looks like it will be fixed at some point in the future). I'll seriously reconsider not buying the game should they put in an AH. Hear that, SE? More profit for you if you give me what I'm looking for.


Trouble is, auction houses are what give RMT companies so much power in an MMO.

The retainer system works fine. You walk in, search for the item you want and go get it.

The market wards are just fine. The next step is fixing combat...
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#171 Jan 02 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Sigh... as has already been pointed out, this is just another whine thread, 'editorial' or not.

It comes down to something very simple.

Squeenix had a vision of encouraging players to work together, of having crafting as real, full classes, of different gathers and crafters working together and making a decent profit.

Thousands of WoW players had a vision of yet another game where crafting was dull and to be ignored. That you log in kill stuff to get to max level as fast as possible (preferably solo) and then play the next game.


The system WORKS, but only for the people that joined or formed a co-operative LS where the players work together as the devs intended.

If you join a helpful active LS and work with other crafters and gatherers in your LS the system not only 'works', its the best implementation of crafting in any mmo (apart from Eve, which is a very different genre).

Sure the current system is frustrating for the people who dont want to care about crafting. But the system is GREAT for people who, like me for the first time ever, actually enjoy crafting in this game.

By all means, complain and say that the system is frustrating for fighters that just want everything cheap and now.

But where is the 'editorial' for the crafters in the game?

The whiners might be the vocal majority on boards like this, but I'm pretty sure you will find the majority of people actually still playing the game actually like the current system, because they CRAFT and sell for a decent price.

Having such a one sided thread that completely ignores the thoughts and wants of a large proportion of the current player-base... lets hope the devs aren't so stupid as to give in to the loudest complaints... maybe they will... but lets hope not.
#172 Jan 02 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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TheRealDestian wrote:
I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...


I'm not a gold/gil/whatever seller, but I undercut people all the time by 1-5-10g. It's called selling my stuff. It's an economy based on people selling their goods in a market.
Don't presume that everyone else selling is rmt.
And don't pretend that when you saw someone selling theirs for 100g, that you didn't ever put yours up at 98g.

edit: need more coffee

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 2:11pm by Vorkosigan
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#173 Jan 08 2011 at 4:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with you whole heartedly, we definately need an auction house!
I cant even load the market wards without my game crashing on me (Which this only seemed to have happened when i'm on a medium load server. If i was on a light load server, this isnt a problem).
We could still have our retainers, maybe they can organize our macros for us instead? Haha :)
I love the retainer idea in that its unique and no other game (that i know of) even knows of this system.
But if they implimented it in the right manner, it would have been brilliant.
Because they havent, its not so great and its almost impossible to find something that you want.
Especially given the in depth crafting system and recipes, you need a good shopping system to get the right items that you need so you can make more! Instead, i'm spending most of my time to find one item and it takes me almost all day just to make one aspect of the item i'm trying to make. It's insanity, and the market wards need to turn into psychotic mental breakdown wards with the retainers playing the fitted part of having a straight jacket, rocking backwards and forwards, telling you nothing in particular that means anything at all :)
(To put it bluntly) :) <-----Big smile! (Incase you couldnt tell, this is me being sarcastic)
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#174 Jan 08 2011 at 5:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder what would happen if they made this like the stall network in Silk Road Online.
#175 Jan 08 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Vorkosigan wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
I don't think we need an AH. In fact, I don't want one.

I don't want to list an item for a fair price and then come click refresh to find that some goldseller has undercut me by 1 gil...


I'm not a gold/gil/whatever seller, but I undercut people all the time by 1-5-10g. It's called selling my stuff. It's an economy based on people selling their goods in a market.
Don't presume that everyone else selling is rmt.
And don't pretend that when you saw someone selling theirs for 100g, that you didn't ever put yours up at 98g.

edit: need more coffee

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 2:11pm by Vorkosigan


I just wanna touch up on this part... The problem with undercutting in FFXI is not that it was really just 1G all the time, but rather large chunks. I see silk thread stacks are going for 16K a stack and there's say 40 in the auction house. They sell really fast but I just want my gil to go sell the rest of my junk, so let's undercut! I sell it for 14K a stack. Here comes Joejim and he sees the last one sold for 14K, and there's a large supply. He wants it to sell fast too, so he's gonna undercut by another 2K dropping it to 12K. Now more and more people come in, see this going for 12K, so they start setting their prices at 12K, and their goods have now sold. Meanwhile, Jackbob who spent hours at a low level farming seven stacks of silk thread returns to find the sets he put up for 16K have not sold. So now, Jackbob has to eat the listing price fee and re-list his thread at 12K a stack or have the stuff sitting in the AH until it sells or is returned.

As for an auction house, I'm still against the idea myself. I don't believe we truly need one at all. The issue at hand however, is SE doesn't make this any easier when all the retainers decide it's time to pack up and go home. I set up my retainers earlier in the day and just before I planned to go to sleep, I come back to find they're gone. All this time they've been offline my stuff could have sold. This is the major issue SE needs to fix immediately with the market wards, starting to come to that you can't find what you want because all the retainers have disappeared.
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#176 Jan 08 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I just wanna touch up on this part... The problem with undercutting in FFXI is not that it was really just 1G all the time, but rather large chunks. I see silk thread stacks are going for 16K a stack and there's say 40 in the auction house. They sell really fast but I just want my gil to go sell the rest of my junk, so let's undercut! I sell it for 14K a stack. Here comes Joejim and he sees the last one sold for 14K, and there's a large supply. He wants it to sell fast too, so he's gonna undercut by another 2K dropping it to 12K. Now more and more people come in, see this going for 12K, so they start setting their prices at 12K, and their goods have now sold. Meanwhile, Jackbob who spent hours at a low level farming seven stacks of silk thread returns to find the sets he put up for 16K have not sold. So now, Jackbob has to eat the listing price fee and re-list his thread at 12K a stack or have the stuff sitting in the AH until it sells or is returned.


To further expand on Sir Samusknight's thoughts, the end result of this vicious cycle is that the overall price of the silk thread has been driven into the ground and may take weeks to recover and return to form, if it ever does at all. Now Joejim, Jackbob, and everyone else in the game who made a living by selling silk thread has to go find a new niche where they can scrape together an in-game living. Perhaps the RMTs exploited the AH in FFXI to some extent, but I think we as players are our own worst enemy sometimes.

THIS is the reason I'm digging in my heels against an AH at this point. Like anything new, the market wards took some getting used to. But now that I've gotten used to the concept, I'm ok with it. If SE is able to fix the stability issues and can tweak the system slightly to maximize the user-friendly and efficiency factors, I'm ok with it. Let the down-rates for saying no to an AH begin. :)
#177 Jan 08 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elswick78 wrote:
Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I just wanna touch up on this part... The problem with undercutting in FFXI is not that it was really just 1G all the time, but rather large chunks. I see silk thread stacks are going for 16K a stack and there's say 40 in the auction house. They sell really fast but I just want my gil to go sell the rest of my junk, so let's undercut! I sell it for 14K a stack. Here comes Joejim and he sees the last one sold for 14K, and there's a large supply. He wants it to sell fast too, so he's gonna undercut by another 2K dropping it to 12K. Now more and more people come in, see this going for 12K, so they start setting their prices at 12K, and their goods have now sold. Meanwhile, Jackbob who spent hours at a low level farming seven stacks of silk thread returns to find the sets he put up for 16K have not sold. So now, Jackbob has to eat the listing price fee and re-list his thread at 12K a stack or have the stuff sitting in the AH until it sells or is returned.


To further expand on Sir Samusknight's thoughts, the end result of this vicious cycle is that the overall price of the silk thread has been driven into the ground and may take weeks to recover and return to form, if it ever does at all. Now Joejim, Jackbob, and everyone else in the game who made a living by selling silk thread has to go find a new niche where they can scrape together an in-game living. Perhaps the RMTs exploited the AH in FFXI to some extent, but I think we as players are our own worst enemy sometimes.

THIS is the reason I'm digging in my heels against an AH at this point. Like anything new, the market wards took some getting used to. But now that I've gotten used to the concept, I'm ok with it. If SE is able to fix the stability issues and can tweak the system slightly to maximize the user-friendly and efficiency factors, I'm ok with it. Let the down-rates for saying no to an AH begin. :)


I think both of you overlooked the original factor in all of this, there were 40 stacks of silk up. It was over farmed, so its worth less. Prices are supposed to fluctuate. Yes its lame that prices lower a lot faster than they raise again, but that's (imo) a symptom of a buyers market. The exact same things happen clumsily with any market, AH's are just more accurate and therefore its easier to see when things like this happen.
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#178 Jan 08 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I just wanna touch up on this part... The problem with undercutting in FFXI is not that it was really just 1G all the time, but rather large chunks. I see silk thread stacks are going for 16K a stack and there's say 40 in the auction house. They sell really fast but I just want my gil to go sell the rest of my junk, so let's undercut! I sell it for 14K a stack. Here comes Joejim and he sees the last one sold for 14K, and there's a large supply. He wants it to sell fast too, so he's gonna undercut by another 2K dropping it to 12K. Now more and more people come in, see this going for 12K, so they start setting their prices at 12K, and their goods have now sold. Meanwhile, Jackbob who spent hours at a low level farming seven stacks of silk thread returns to find the sets he put up for 16K have not sold. So now, Jackbob has to eat the listing price fee and re-list his thread at 12K a stack or have the stuff sitting in the AH until it sells or is returned.


To further expand on Sir Samusknight's thoughts, the end result of this vicious cycle is that the overall price of the silk thread has been driven into the ground and may take weeks to recover and return to form, if it ever does at all. Now Joejim, Jackbob, and everyone else in the game who made a living by selling silk thread has to go find a new niche where they can scrape together an in-game living. Perhaps the RMTs exploited the AH in FFXI to some extent, but I think we as players are our own worst enemy sometimes.

THIS is the reason I'm digging in my heels against an AH at this point. Like anything new, the market wards took some getting used to. But now that I've gotten used to the concept, I'm ok with it. If SE is able to fix the stability issues and can tweak the system slightly to maximize the user-friendly and efficiency factors, I'm ok with it. Let the down-rates for saying no to an AH begin. :)


I think both of you overlooked the original factor in all of this, there were 40 stacks of silk up. It was over farmed, so its worth less. Prices are supposed to fluctuate. Yes its lame that prices lower a lot faster than they raise again, but that's (imo) a symptom of a buyers market. The exact same things happen clumsily with any market, AH's are just more accurate and therefore its easier to see when things like this happen.


I agree with you, Kuja. But if I may be so bold as to speak for Sir Samusknight, I think the point he was trying to make was that the current market ward system masks this overfarming, to a certain extent. That is to say, the market ward system is a little more forgiving with a greater "margin for error" so to speak. Instead of having the information a click or two away, the players coming in on the tail end and ruining the market would have to do substantial homework (which if they're seeking to make a quick, easy buck, they probably won't be willing to do) in order to determine an opportunity exists in silk thread. The market wards, nor any other system no matter how creative, will never eliminate this human element entirely. The only thing which would do that would be for SE to set item min/max prices, etc, and I'm militantly opposed to that. What the market wards do well is mitigate the damage to a greater degree over a traditional AH setup.

Edited, Jan 8th 2011 12:23pm by Elswick78
#179 Jan 08 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elswick78 wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I just wanna touch up on this part... The problem with undercutting in FFXI is not that it was really just 1G all the time, but rather large chunks. I see silk thread stacks are going for 16K a stack and there's say 40 in the auction house. They sell really fast but I just want my gil to go sell the rest of my junk, so let's undercut! I sell it for 14K a stack. Here comes Joejim and he sees the last one sold for 14K, and there's a large supply. He wants it to sell fast too, so he's gonna undercut by another 2K dropping it to 12K. Now more and more people come in, see this going for 12K, so they start setting their prices at 12K, and their goods have now sold. Meanwhile, Jackbob who spent hours at a low level farming seven stacks of silk thread returns to find the sets he put up for 16K have not sold. So now, Jackbob has to eat the listing price fee and re-list his thread at 12K a stack or have the stuff sitting in the AH until it sells or is returned.


To further expand on Sir Samusknight's thoughts, the end result of this vicious cycle is that the overall price of the silk thread has been driven into the ground and may take weeks to recover and return to form, if it ever does at all. Now Joejim, Jackbob, and everyone else in the game who made a living by selling silk thread has to go find a new niche where they can scrape together an in-game living. Perhaps the RMTs exploited the AH in FFXI to some extent, but I think we as players are our own worst enemy sometimes.

THIS is the reason I'm digging in my heels against an AH at this point. Like anything new, the market wards took some getting used to. But now that I've gotten used to the concept, I'm ok with it. If SE is able to fix the stability issues and can tweak the system slightly to maximize the user-friendly and efficiency factors, I'm ok with it. Let the down-rates for saying no to an AH begin. :)


I think both of you overlooked the original factor in all of this, there were 40 stacks of silk up. It was over farmed, so its worth less. Prices are supposed to fluctuate. Yes its lame that prices lower a lot faster than they raise again, but that's (imo) a symptom of a buyers market. The exact same things happen clumsily with any market, AH's are just more accurate and therefore its easier to see when things like this happen.


I agree with you, Kuja. But if I may be so bold as to speak for Sir Samusknight, I think the point he was trying to make was that the current market ward system masks this overfarming, to a certain extent. That is to say, the market ward system is a little more forgiving with a greater "margin for error" so to speak. Instead of having the information a click or two away, the players coming in on the tail end and ruining the market would have to do substantial homework (which if they're seeking to make a quick, easy buck, they probably won't be willing to do) in order to determine an opportunity exists in silk thread. The market wards, nor any other system no matter how creative, will never eliminate this human element entirely. The only thing which would do that would be for SE to set item min/max prices, etc, and I'm militantly opposed to that. What the market wards do well is mitigate the damage to a greater degree over a traditional AH setup.

Edited, Jan 8th 2011 12:23pm by Elswick78


Its really a two sides thing. What you may see as the system allowing people to make a better profit, I see as the system allowing people to be overcharged. Which is why I prefer to have all relevant price information available (through a centralized market location), because even if I'm not happy about the price, I know I'm paying the actual market rate.

The point I intended to make though, was mainly that people blame the AH for things, when its never the cause, the people using it are. the same guy who cuts 2k off his price is going to do the same thing when pricing on his retainer (assuming he actually knows what the current price is). Nothing is ever the AH's fault, its blaming the gun and not the shooter.
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#180 Jan 08 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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179 posts
AH was and will never be the problem, if it was, then all the games that have it are making a mistake.

what we have now is a simy AH, prices are known, impleminting an AH now will improve the economy and help more exchange between players due to traviling issues.

not having it dos not harm the economy but dos not improve it, now its the best time to implement it.

Edited, Jan 8th 2011 3:11pm by daour
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#181 Jan 10 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
Just to play devil's advocate for a minute, undercutting wars is a *feature*, not a *bug*. It's how time and resources are allocated towards what consumers want. If there's a massive glut of silk thread on the market to the degree that people are just dumping it at the marginal cost, then that's a strong indication that people are farming a lot more silk thread than is needed.

It's not even really win-win for the sellers, either. While using consumer lack of information to make more profit per synth sounds good, in the long run, it just pushes prospective buyers towards making/farming it themselves. If I'm willing to buy a stack of silk thread at 14K, that's an indication that I want the silk thread more than I want the 14K in my pocket, but as the price goes up and the annoyance factor goes up, I (and most other buyers) would reach a point where we rather have the money than the saved time farming the silk.

Edited, Jan 10th 2011 8:48pm by DSzymborski
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Dan Szymborski
VALEFOR - Aurelian
#182 Jan 11 2011 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
31 posts
I applaude the idea of SE trying to get a system to work discouraging gilsellers and undercutters but there are a few points here that are easily overlooked.

I did play FFXI from the beginning till june/july last year. I was a avid crafter and farmer and did get frustrated a lot with undercutting. But why do we all here completely ignore the idea/notion that SE does have a fully and direct control of the market ?

There are way more ways to run a auction house then just selling the cheapest item first. How about SE implementing a system that a player selling item a 3 times a week sells his item a before a player selling item a 12 times a day ? How about SE seeing that item a is about to get completely overflood on the auction house just automaticly drops the droprate for item a ? So when normally item a drops once every 4 mobs average suddenly only drops once every 8 mobs ?

And this is just a very simple idea easy to implement and understand. But you could go a lot further. Player x is camping a nm and has sold the last 12 main drops of this nm. Then this player x simply doesn't get the drop anymore untill someone else has got it or several other has sold this item after his last sell. And 1 step further if player x leveld to the level needed to kill this nm and does nothing else for a certain amount of time I would say give 1 warning and with no reply ban him for gilselling.

One more amazing thing people keep saying here that they do or don't want a auction house. Would it be safe for me to say that a auction house is a central place where I as a seller can sell my goods when I am offline and buy my goods by searching through a list of all available things and then making my choice ? If you do more or less agree with this discription I have some shocking news for you : We already have a auction house. Only SE made it one with a clunky time consuming interface. The second they implemented the search function they gave in to all the people wanting one just saved face by not calling it a auction house.

Now I go to the wards, use the search, find the item I want cause all retainers selling it have a red star above there head. So I check all 5 retainers and buy the cheapest, ah anyone ? Just a bit more cumbersome and timeconsuming.
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