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More defined job roles pls!Follow

#52 Dec 10 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
Seventhblood wrote:


So you want to stand around and wait for a white mage to get your party started, no thanks


Or you could get a rdm, smn, pup, whm, sch or even a god **** brd to heal your party...

I think the people telling here how ffxi didn't have variety in jobs really are the people that made ffxi look like there was no variety in jobs.

I had a proper melee set for my rdm, I solod my whole SMN career, I was occasionally MAIN HEALER on my puppetmaster, I had a DD set for my WHM, I nuked with my BLM (and loved it, whis something similar would be in 14) but I also healed on my BLM when I healer was down... I also healed with my BRD when the mages ran out of MP... that is if I was subbing a mage.... and so on.

I don't know what to call it but I do think that jobs (well mages at least) in FFXIV are a bit all over the place. I love the variety (and anyone who knows me will vouch for it) ... but I still stick to it that the jobs haven't been thought 100% through in 14.
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#53 Dec 10 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
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513 posts
So many clueless comments in this thread. Let me make a couple things clear:

1. AoE spells as the default are baaad. Don't you people realize how this limits design? AoE attacks by enemies are no different from single target attacks because the same cure will heal everyone regardless. It essentially turns AoEs into single target attacks. What happened in FFXI if you started tossing curagas around like confetti? That's right, you'd deplete your MP quickly and pull massive aggro and get two-shot by the mob. FFXIV only gives us trivial cure spam where you can use the basic cure to heal everyone without worrying about MP, hate or even targeting. There has to be a tradeoff for hitting the AoE button.

2. Hybrids do not work optimally in a group setting. It doesn't matter how much you want your ARC to be a healer, he'll never be as good as a CON or even THM and will be disregarded unless you're doing something trivially easy (like everything in FFXIV right now). In a group based game you are always rewarded for specializing as heavily as possible because you don't need to perform multiple roles when there are other people to do those tasks. You can't be both an excellent DD and excellent healer at the same time, as that'd simply make your job superior to those who can't do both, which is why the healer ARC would have to somehow sacrifice his DD capacity for healing capacity.

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#54 Dec 10 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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222 posts
Bad memories of standing around wanting to party or party disbanded before it got started because lack of specific jobs.
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#55 Dec 10 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
Sage
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103 posts
I was a DNC, and I was a SMN. I know the issue all too well but that is a community issue not a game design issue. As it stands now with the class customization that cannot happen. Even if they did give the jobs towards the end a more specialized detail then you could always adjust your own skillset to meet the needs and desires of those who want "cookie cutter" class types. Already, people pigeonhole conj as a healer just because they have a spell called "cure".
#56 Dec 10 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,120 posts
LeilaniWildfire wrote:

I think the people telling here how ffxi didn't have variety in jobs really are the people that made ffxi look like there was no variety in jobs.

I had a proper melee set for my rdm, I solod my whole SMN career, I was occasionally MAIN HEALER on my puppetmaster, I had a DD set for my WHM, I nuked with my BLM (and loved it, whis something similar would be in 14) but I also healed on my BLM when I healer was down... I also healed with my BRD when the mages ran out of MP... that is if I was subbing a mage.... and so on.

I don't know what to call it but I do think that jobs (well mages at least) in FFXIV are a bit all over the place. I love the variety (and anyone who knows me will vouch for it) ... but I still stick to it that the jobs haven't been thought 100% through in 14.


Maybe it's a matter of viewing XIV's classes the same way you viewed XI's jobs. They're all over the place because they're not specific jobs. I look at these classes as a means to an end. Earning abilities and traits I want in order to create the "job" or "role" I want to become. I can be very flexible or focus on 1 main role I'd like to fill. I can also have some wacky hybrids I like to use for soloing because they're fun. Like some have mentioned, the biggest problem with this is that a lot of good hybrid ideas fail to perform as well as we'd like. Hopefully improvements are coming for that.

I guess my point is that I don't really see what you want changed and why it's needed. With improvements to the hybrid system, SP changes, and content with more challenging fights I think you end up with something similar to XI. Just with a very different approach of reaching it. You create your defined role out of the options available to you.
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#57 Dec 10 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
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608 posts
even in ffxi the job roles changed as the game did.


Quote:
I think the AOE takes SO MUCH away from the mages and it should be removed completely. Yes… it makes it so much easier to heal people but do you really want it to be that easy?!

i think its too easy too, but if you read the forums there people saying it too hard to heal @_@
#58 Dec 10 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
45 posts
haife wrote:
I agree Leilani, more specified roles would make this game SO much better.


The job getting xp does not equal role in pt.
The specifics of where the sp doesnt really matter. This is not ffxi. players do not need to fit into misconeceptions regarding what a job is supposed to do.

Job roles typical in ffxi are met by what abilities are equiped and what stats are set as.
  • main healer: should have cures, pro, shell and shock spikes equiped. (stygian spikes if you have a pld style tank helps more in long grinds)
  • Debuffer: should have slow, gravity, para, and some dots equiped.
  • tank: should have defender, voke, taunt, shield bash, and a cure/sac2 wouldnt hurt.
  • dd: should have abilities that increase their acc/atk and a bunch of ws, specifically a single target and a aoe ws

the remaining slots should be filled by what is useful for the pt.

Will a GLA make a better tank then an ARC, probably.
Will a DoM make a better healer then a DoW, yes.
Does a CON mean main healing only: NO!
Does a THM mean debuffing only: NO!

For quick kill mobs, is it better to wait for a GLA when you have a good pgl that can 'ninja tank'?
Do you really want and expect others to sit at camp for hours looking for a con because you dont want 1 of the 2 thms in your pt to heal?
Do you really expect the THM who has good gear for nuking, droping 500+ dmg a nuke to just sit there and cast slow/para/grav/absorb def a mob that dies in 3 seconds?
#59 Dec 10 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
haife wrote:
except, much like in late game 11, you did not have to stand around and wait for a whitemage did you?


If that is true why didn't my BLU/WHM get invites? Divine Seal + Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit were totally bad **** healing skills. I could easily heal a party doing mundane stuff (was also a taru). Nope. No interest. People would rather wait for 3 hours for a WHM while I soloed using fields of valor (very well, too).
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#60 Dec 10 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
Ok, I think I have played a different game but since when did you wait for a WHM to pop up for a party?
I thought it was always RDM and BRD people were after... My WHM was idle for a long time.

AND when there was no parties for one job, I would go and level another one :)
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#61 Dec 10 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
LeilaniWildfire wrote:

AND when there was no parties for one job, I would go and level another one :)


a) didn't have that much time to game
b) I wanted to be a blu, not another job
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#62 Dec 10 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
haife wrote:
I was a DNC, and I was a SMN. I know the issue all too well but that is a community issue not a game design issue. As it stands now with the class customization that cannot happen. Even if they did give the jobs towards the end a more specialized detail then you could always adjust your own skillset to meet the needs and desires of those who want "cookie cutter" class types. Already, people pigeonhole conj as a healer just because they have a spell called "cure".


It is a community issue, but I think it's an issue because of game design.

Quote:
If that is true why didn't my BLU/WHM get invites? Divine Seal + Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit were totally bad **** healing skills. I could easily heal a party doing mundane stuff (was also a taru). Nope. No interest. People would rather wait for 3 hours for a WHM while I soloed using fields of valor (very well, too).


On a side note Olo, I used to sub DNC for my BLU on occassion. Aspir Samba and appropriate mob selection made it loads of fun :)



Edited, Dec 10th 2010 2:14pm by SkinwalkerAsura
#63 Dec 10 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
Sage
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205 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
haife wrote:
except, much like in late game 11, you did not have to stand around and wait for a whitemage did you?


If that is true why didn't my BLU/WHM get invites? Divine Seal + Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit were totally bad **** healing skills. I could easily heal a party doing mundane stuff (was also a taru). Nope. No interest. People would rather wait for 3 hours for a WHM while I soloed using fields of valor (very well, too).


I know what you mean Olorinus. I remember when Blu first came out and they where doing EVERYTHING. I had plenty of parties that had a blu main healer, blu tank, and blu DD. But over time they just sort of went away and blu/nin was all I would ever see.

Suffered some of the same problems when I tried desperately to convince people as a Pup that my automaton could be a back up healer. No one ever wants to try it...
#64 Dec 10 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
haife wrote:
I was a DNC, and I was a SMN. I know the issue all too well but that is a community issue not a game design issue. As it stands now with the class customization that cannot happen. Even if they did give the jobs towards the end a more specialized detail then you could always adjust your own skillset to meet the needs and desires of those who want "cookie cutter" class types. Already, people pigeonhole conj as a healer just because they have a spell called "cure".


It is a community issue, but I think it's an issue because of game design.

Quote:
If that is true why didn't my BLU/WHM get invites? Divine Seal + Wild Carrot/Magic Fruit were totally bad **** healing skills. I could easily heal a party doing mundane stuff (was also a taru). Nope. No interest. People would rather wait for 3 hours for a WHM while I soloed using fields of valor (very well, too).


On a side note Olo, I used to sub DNC for my BLU on occassion. Aspir Samba and appropriate mob selection made it loads of fun :)



oh nice. I never had a chance to level dance. Unfortunately I had 2 different characters over my last two years in XI so I lost a lot of time releveling. /sigh

My first character was shortly after NA release... omg. It took me so so so long to get BLM to 22 Smiley: oyvey ... and then I didn't have access to the game anymore. /sigh

Whenever people complain about XIV I remember how frigging ridiculous XI was when I first started playing.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#65 Dec 10 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Whenever people complain about XIV I remember how frigging ridiculous XI was when I first started playing.


I agree :)
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