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For the SE Dev. team to take to heart.Follow

#1 Dec 13 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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Forum, add to this, to compile positive additions and changes you would want the new Dev team to take into consideration, for the development path that this diamond in the ruff is going to go through. With that said:

I really want them to have titles for the classed, like it should be. Wht mage , blk mage, dragoon, drk knight, paladin, monk, ninja, samurai, fencer, summoner, geomancer...etc. Lets face it this is what makes final fantasy, final fantasy. The jobs are set and they all have their role. Stop thinking "this is not 11", cause it has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the fact that this game needs to start to feel&play like Final freaking Fantasy.

I know a lot of people like how the disciplines can change out abilities and be all hybrids. And while I enjoy the game. It does not feel like final fantasy at all. And I hope the new team sees this and changes a lot of thinks. Give us a FF:tactic type playing games where the lore is strong to FF and the chess pieces are there to play with, that's what I liked about ffxi. Right of the bat you felt like it was final fantasy because, for one the Job classes where defined. Felt like FF1. I know a lot of people say, "this is not ffxi you want that go play it", but ffxi has that ff feel because it uses the formula from bits of ff1, 6 12, tactics..etc.

I love 14, but it has no FF feel at the moment. The chocobos don't even 'kewh' when you interact with them, like they did in 11. And that is the other thing. Eleven is SE 1st mmo and with it they can take elements from it, to put into another mmo. In the end its all FF. It has to feel a certain way for it to claim that title. I'm only typing this because the new dev team is trying to resuscitate our precious 14 and they can do it if they step/look back a bit, and visit the fundamentals:

-Discipline names, keep them old school SE Dev. team! Your paying fan base is old school, the same ones that got hook on Cecil and Kain. The European naming convention needs to go. I'm sorry but it does. Do that stuff for a separate game title that doesn't bare the name "Final Fantasy". 14 bares the name Final Fantasy lets keep it simple. Simple creates wonders sometimes. The kiddies of 2010 aren't playing this game. The kiddies of 1987 are.

-Go back to Set Classes, designed roles for parties(FF:Tactics lion war), unique skill sets that only that one job can do. No sub job formula, that is FF11. Just keep it simple, 1 class 1 huge set of skills, point allocations for being able to set up your skill set bar. Our characters need to start feeling like chess pieces and that would really be the only way to put in that strategic element the game is missing. I know everyone is enjoying the hybrid feel this game is giving off, but its not "fundamental" FF. Everyone should know that the only hybrid class is a Red Mage. Right now we are all playing Red Mages and its losses its taste.

-Go back to 6 man parties. With 2 more being able to join for bigger battles. Right now everyone in 14 thinks they should be a full 15 man party and it looks silly, with everyone casting cure & protect. Conjurers feeling awkward, because the boxer is able to 'cure' and 'shell' him/herself. There is no strategy involve, because the jobs are too hybrid able. See suggestion above.

-Get rid of repair for equipment. There are way to many other things you can think off to keep crafters happy. But, right now having to worry about repair is to hardcore and this game is trying to go towards the casual crowd, this needs to go to get it one step closer to that goal. Trust me hardcore/elite players won't mind if you remove this feature, You can challenge us with endgame. "Money sink you say", give us basic functionality of riding chocobos, until raising them up, gets implemented. If you want to make a little quest out of it again, for gaining a license, then go ahead its your lore you are allowed to. Again, certain things "Keep it simple. Make it smart."..<< your new slogan. :)

-The armory system is a great new idea, and all that was said above can still work with that being the main focus. With that said, please make wearing equipment level specific. I'm too tempted to put on a lvl48 leg piece because it looks so good. I feel like I'm cheating. Bring back that level accomplishment feeling 11 had. So the grind is still fun and not like work.

Dev team!! Bring back that Final Fantasy core nostalgia! FF1 fundamentals FF:Tactic elements(for the strategy/game play), FF11, FF12 content(game play). You will have a winner! Hands down. I'm drooling just thinking about that combination being a reality. It's an mmo keep it simple towards the FF lore and rule set, because believe it or not you guys have a rule set, maybe you all just haven't realized it yet.
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#2 Dec 13 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Simply no.

I want complex mechanics which are more original and unique and based on what I want to do then FFXI's system of a main and a sub. Ultimately I will settle down into a main role and that will be it, but FFXI was designed with players to be rewarded for their other classes with a sub. Well we all knew how that went in the end, right?

Taking from ff5, we are all sorta like onion knights in form which can add any skill learned before and incorporate it into our current job without a large penalty in most cases. Some are class locked, but that is okay, they are for a reason.

SE is going in the right direction with the armoury system, please no trips back to 1980s please!
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#3 Dec 13 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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I think you've got some of it right, like the "look and feel" of the Final Fantasy franchise. Chocobos that coo. Discipline names. Sure, chocobos, and maybe they will when SE gets to turning them loose. But can you picture a CON->WHM and THM->BLM rename? It just doesn't fit. So it appears that the change was intentional, even if we don't get "why?" Perhaps dated class is dated, at least in the developer's eyes. They could even be wrong.

The 15 man parties, how do you discourage that? There's absolutely nothing wrong with supporting larger parties, but maybe the problem is that they're all scouring the countryside for coblyns? It feels to me like the latter is the problem, because fifteen might be just fine for a big buffalo NM that stands 30 malms high.

Set classes is a very interesting one. It's quite clear that the design of sharing skills was intentional, and is actually quite ingenious to prevent pigeonholing people from a role. It never occurred to me until I started typing this up, but there is no white mage in FFXIV. There are two magic classes, and they both can heal, but neither one is a classic healer. If pugilists are curing and protecting themselves, maybe the whole thing is setting up so that nobody gets pigeonholed as a healer, even if some people enjoy playing that way. Perhaps a tank/healer pair is intended to fill that niche, and everyone else is out for themself? If you don't have to waste time curing the pugilist that got caught in an AOE, everything about the party becomes more efficient. When they start releasing tough NM fights is when we'll learn about this more -- it's hard to say while we are still killing reskinned marmots.

SE could get rid of the armory system only by making other changes. You've got 8 DOW classes, each wearing different "preferred" armor, as well as all your DOM/DOH/DOL. In order to make it feasible to handle the variety, you'd have to remove "preferred" armor and provide hidden slots and menu controls to change to other class gear. Otherwise it's just not feasible. Again, I can't see a minor tweak to "fix" this; it was innately designed this way. But I do think if they worked hard at this, they could remove the level requirements, the bigger issue is why they would want to? Even if you wear cool looking gear above your level, it's not as effective. The answer again seems to be rare drops from NMs that aren't yet present.

So it's all good feedback, but it seems to me the big problem is that it's still too early to tell what the game really is. But it does seem to me like they didn't just "drop the ball" by not working as FFXI, it looks intentional.
#4 Dec 13 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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This a an mmo, they should keep to the old core machanics that made the beginning single player experience shine of FF1 shine, and advance on that as we gain in level. FF7-10 & 13 might not have used the FF class names, but the roles where there for each character, they were defined. And those are single player experiences. This is an mmo. It needs to be of a different format to pull in the wow feeling that is FF. Taking tactics mechanics along with 11&12's added with the new original idea that are going to make up 14's story and content would make for a killer comeback for the PS3 release.

Look at WoW and how blizzard took the basic core of the strategy warcraft games and just made it an mmo, its the same thing I'm trying to say. The names can be changed, if they replaced the text so far in game, swap it out conjurer to white mage and thaumaturge to black mage it would still work and sound right when read through the lore. Later in years when say a blu mage is released or geomancer. What would they call them using the European naming that they've been using? Geologist & Stealer of magic abilities? It just looks and sounds weird from a final fantasy point of view.

Take away this hybrid customization we are able to do right now. Its boring its going to end up being boring because in the furture everyone is going to have the same skill equip, but holding different weapons. Red Mages using different weapons. Not cool, not cool at all.

You are actually telling me that if SE,in the next patch, added all these: Red mage class, a White mage class, a Gladiator, a Thief, a Black belt, Dragoon, Illusionist, Geomancer, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai, Pirate, Fencer, Viking, Archer, Mimer, Dancer, Bard, Templar, Defender, Blue Mage, Black Mage, Tamer(BeastMaster) Scholar, Sage, Devout, Evoker, Knight, Warrior. Gave each one of them their set of unique skills, abilities(which SE has already, cause as I stated above SE has their own rule set),no ability to sub job or swap abilities. Just a skill point allocation system that they are using now to pick and choose want you want from your skill set.You know how 'Chess'like that would make this game feel. Good stuff!

Weapons are still class specific like they are now, switching to any weapon in the field would still switch to the class the weapon is for. Weapons are usable by different classes, if by chase a weapon has two other classes that can use it, a window would pop up, specifically asking which job to switch to.

Weapon labels are basically the same how its set up in 11.

So, with all that, you mean to tell me wouldn't feel all gitty inside and say, "Now this is what FF is supposed to feel like. Just seeing the names alone would make it feel right

Chocobos running wild in the open terrain and from a distance you see them grazing and when you try to get close they run off. (They can easily add this, I see hawks flying about my head in the Ul'dah region all the time.) This is immersion in FF lore. Right now immersion does not show itself.

p.s.... this is just DoW that I'm talking about, DoL and DoH are fine they way they are.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 10:33am by Rustyshield
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Shaman/Asura (Retired)
75-SAM 40-WAR
37-DRG 31-BLU
30-PLD 18-NIN
37-DNC 15-THF
37-RNG 20-BST
10-WHT



#5 Dec 13 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Nostalgia has its place.

Not here, but it has its place.

FF is not defined by rigid job titles. In standalone FF titles, you controlled an entire party. In MMOs, you control one character in a party. From a playability standpoint it makes sense that you have access to a bit of everything if you want it. The goal isn't to make everyone a hybrid in the common usage sense of the word. The goal is to allow you to build a character that suits your playstyle.

Live in the now, man. Live in the now.
#6 Dec 13 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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For the past 10 years, for me, Final Fantasy has been defined by experimenting. New ideas, new concepts.

I did not start playing these games before the 10th game (due to my inability to understand English), which is also why I've learned to love the franchise for the simple reason that the only part of it that they "milk" is the name. When I play a game with a "Final Fantasy" in it's title, I expect something different, something that if not blows me away, gives me a feeling of freshness and maybe even unpredictability.

I think FFXI gave me all of this, and more. And I also think it would do the predecessor injustice if it's successor did not continue in its, and the whole franchises footsteps.

Sure, there are certain features that fell flat, more or less. However, especially now with the help of the playerbase, and hopefully with fresh blood in charge, they can correct the unfortunate mistakes while enforcing this ideal, that in my opinion has defined the franchise for the longest time, and made me a great fan of it.

Like Aurelius said, nostalgia has it's place. However, I don't think it should be used to determine the future. The industry, and SE, are not out of great ideas yet. Ideas, that I at least would like to see come into fruition.
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#7 Dec 13 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly, the class system in FFXIV is unique, and can work moving forward, but needs some tweaks. Other games have rigid class systems, so I applaud FFXIV going in a different route.

Tweaks to move us into more defined classes could be easy.

First, make it so every ability you unlock for the class you are currently playing (IE. Gladiator) does not require ability points to 'equip'. This way you will be encouraged to experiment will all of your base abilities just because you have them on your bar.

Second, lower the amount of ability points you receive at level up (goes with the point above - you wont need all of these points if you don't have to use them on your classes abilities)

Third, make different abilities cost a different amount of points (instead of it being dictated by the level in which you unlock an ability). EG. Both 'Fire' and 'Cure' cost 3 ability points to 'equip', but to a gladiator, Cure is much more useful - thus it should require more ability points to include.

Forth, this is about attribute points for when you level up. This should be handled a bit differently (maybe even more like ffxiv with a few tweaks). When you level GLD, for example, you should get +1 STR, +1 AGL, +2 VIT for every level (values could change at different levels, but everyone receives a set amount for a set class when they level). Then, every level (or every 5 levels), you get to assign 1 point to any stat. This would allow for some customization (which SE clearly wants), but still allow us to have defined rolls.

Currently changing classes, and having to redistribute all of our points is one of the dumbest design choices I've ever seen. I just don't understand the point of having a flexible class system, where you can change your class on a whim, but then have to wait to reassign your attribute points... If we only got 1 point to distribute for every 5 levels, and you couldn't edit them on a whim, they would be much more meaningful.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 11:51am by MinosGraedus
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#8 Dec 13 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I disagree with making this a carbon copy of FFXI. If I wanted XI I would play XI. I like the feel that this is a FF game but isn't JUST another version of an existing SqEnix FF title.

Sure there are no moogles or chocobo's to interact with at this time. I trust the new development team to start implementing them and other things to bring back some of the core elements of the Final Fantasy genre. I bought this game knowing that it would not be XI and that was fine with me. That is what I wanted. Sure, I loved playing XI but I am beyond that now and want a new title with new features and new challenges, mind you I wasn't expecting some of the challenges we all got Smiley: lol

The new armour system I thoroughly enjoy. I love being able to set up my character the way I want to. Some of the complaints I keep hearing people say is that this will lead to a server full of people all spec'd out the exact same way. I personally beg to differ. As it stands right now I am primarily leveling my conjurer. I enjoy doing so. Bit by bit I will get other classes to levels that will help me attain the abilities that I feel will benefit my character in the role I have decided for him, that of a primary healer. I have members of my LS that are specing themselves to be tanks, pullers/DD, nukers, etc. Each of these has their own flavour and each member has their own idea as to how to set that up and how to get there.

XI was a phenomenal game that I wish I could have played longer at the time, but due to computer issues I couldn't play as long as I would have liked. That being said, the players of that game had a severe tendency to pigeon hole people and classes. Too often I heard if you are x class you HAVE to sub y. That mentality was rampant in the game. I am a firm believer in off spec build, in allowing people to play the game they way they see fit and enjoy it without everyone on the server telling them that they are doing it wrong. That mentality was rampant in XI. The way the build is set up here in XIV disavows that elitism and that is probably one of the greatest features of XIV

As for titles, if I remember correctly, job class titles changed throughout the FF series. They were not always static. However I could be wrong here as I have a poor memory and it has been YEARS since I played any of the other titles.
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#9 Dec 13 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dear Op,

NO TY! FFXI is good, but not for my lifestyle. With the proper tweaks and more contect this game is good. I do not fee like being told I NEED TO PARTY!!!! If you want the same stuff from XI that made it a good game, please do us all a favor and /quit and delete your account and go play XI.

14 is suiting my lifestyle. I can log in and play whenever I want w/o people telling me "YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG!" I like that I can still level up without playing with others. I can craft without playing with others. I like that I can make my character what I want her to be. Do I feel like being a melee mage? Why yes! Yes I can! As opposed to being thrown in the back of a group saying spam cure please.

And as far as I know, 14 is suiting many others life style too who does not have much time to play. You don't like it, don't play it. Nuff said.
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#10 Dec 13 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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I'm all for having equipment require a specific level and 6-man parties, those caught my eye.

In FFXI there was a huge drive for efficiency - the exp/hour - you had tailored classes and with 6 slots you took people specialized for a role you are lacking. Even sub-jobs were used only for a few support abilities.

Having 15 hybrid members who can all heal and dps is a gong show.
#11 Dec 13 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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So basically you just want this to be FFXI with no penalties for sucking.

No.
#12 Dec 13 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In FFXI there was a huge drive for efficiency - the exp/hour - you had tailored classes and with 6 slots you took people specialized for a role you are lacking. Even sub-jobs were used only for a few support abilities.


So, pigeon holing and strict party setups? You may as well say goodbye to anything even remotely resembling casual in this game.

5/6? Sorry, no can do, there's no RDM lfp.
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#13 Dec 13 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Just use the good aspects of FFXI, add some room to maneuver with essential classes for parties (so that parties won't be paralyzed by the unavailability of a certain class), ADD MORE LORE (right now I don't know jack squat about Eorzea except that there are some bad dudes to the North East, and there are a bunch of city states who are kind of banded together, and there was some weird event with a big dragon attacking a ship and then a beam of light killed both the dragon and the ship, and then some stuff flew out from a bright light), ADD A SKILLCHAIN SYSTEM (one that is more elaborate than FFXI, maybe every combination of weaponskills can have a unique skillchain etc), add magic chain or magic burst etc, and fix the slow sp system that is in place. Also, add content. The game desperately needs content. Give us quests and missions that feel like they are going somewhere. The current story quests are good, but with the time it takes to rank up and get to them, they are so far apart that its not as enthralling. Add an AH. This is necessary. Things move much faster with an AH. It doesn't have to be the same as FFXI, and you don't have to get rid of the retainers or the wards, but we need to be able to have access to the goods that we want without running through a labyrinth, and we need to have an economy that isn't all over the place because of wildly varying prices. Also, the streets are way overcrowded with people trying to sell their stuff, and NOBODY likes the lag spikes this causes, nor do we want to wade through 60 bazaars, so they wind up being ignored.
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#14 Dec 13 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that alot of FFXIV sucks right now, but implementing ideas from FFXI are not the way to fix it. Even the Auction House could use for an upgrade. Yeah market wards blow, but the replacement doesn't have to be an AH. The same with anything else that need a rework.
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