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Ragecrafting Blues... ToTFollow

#1 Dec 13 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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I'm still having them and I was really hoping by now they would be just an unpleasant memory. Has anyone out there found ways to quell the frustration of crafting and failing so often? I'm in decent gear-- all cotton that is either suitable for all crafting classes and I have a few items that favor specific classes that I wear as appropriate. Most of my tools are appropriate level and I always keep them in good repair.

My crafting classes are all 13-18, with culinarian being my rarely played still at 10.

I use a cotton doublet vest or robe depending on which craft I am currently on, Cotton tights, cotton half gloves, a rope belt and a hempen hat (I have not found upgrades available and I can't quite craft any just yet. Leather and Cloth are at 17/18ish and canvas is well in the 20s.)

I use crafting facilities as necessary and always use them when I am attempting high level synths even if they are not required just in case the facilities actually help me. I have crafted guildleve items that are 5-7 ranks higher than me even though I didn't have appropriate level subskills and sometimes not even the necessary crafting support, but turned around and failed guildleves asking me for items that are 5-7 ranks below me (yes, meaning I actually botch too many of the item to hand it in).

I keep finding myself getting more and more frustrated and less interested in the game because right now I am at a bottle neck where I want/need to get my crafts above 20 before I start leveling my Conjurer and Thaumaturge ranks and I just feel like I am pulling teeth when it comes to crafting. I've been looking for a LS for some support and such, but haven't had much luck (Istory, for anyone that wants to know). I have tried a bunch of things from various guides including elemental attributes but I haven't noticed any real effect on my crafting. I just am really getting tired of the BAM FAIL! Success BAM FAIL BAM FAIL BAM FAIL Success Success BAM FAIL on every synth-- even the ones I end up succeeding on and after a while and I finally get the elemental instabilities haunting me, I just feel like giving up and logging. =/

Do I need better gear or something? Anyone else still ragecrafting or has anyone found at least some way of relief?
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#2 Dec 13 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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which crafts are giving you so much trouble?, some are difficult with out training and/or master support. i remember raging a lot trying make colored cotton at lower leves ;/
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#3 Dec 13 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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All of them are equally frustrating. The lower level ones aren't quite as bad I suppose. And I seem to make level 20+ items for carpentry at lvl 13, and when I turn around and do alchemy (18) and try a 20+ synth I will either get FAIL LOLZ! or Successes. I really seem to get streaks of either one or the other.

As an example: lvl 16 weaver, I was asked to make Trapper's tunics for a lvl 20 guildleve. My leather at the time was 14. I got the complaint that it was too low. I was in a weird mood so I decided to try it anyway- It was just something to do to kill 30 mins till the reset.

I made 4/5 items with NO crafting support at all and an under-leveled skill.
I make some cotton THREAD for another leve. I have made more cotton thread than I ever need. I have 3 stacks of it... I botched all 5 synths, and I didn't try to be cute with Bold Synthesis OR Rapid... Lightning is my highest elemental affinity too... Today I made a bunch of Jellyfish Humorus and some enamels for Alchemy and I turned around and botched a Sleeping Powder guildleve...

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 4:04pm by shinichoco
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#4 Dec 13 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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#5 Dec 13 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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It is a known fact that certain recipes seem to have this problem

cotton thread being one of them


i personaly havent run into many instances of it beyond the 10-15 range of crafting(the recipes in that range that is) but they are out there
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#6 Dec 13 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:
All of them are equally frustrating. The lower level ones aren't quite as bad I suppose. And I seem to make level 20+ items for carpentry at lvl 13, and when I turn around and do alchemy (18) and try a 20+ synth I will either get FAIL LOLZ! or Successes. I really seem to get streaks of either one or the other.

As an example: lvl 16 weaver, I was asked to make Trapper's tunics for a lvl 20 guildleve. My leather at the time was 14. I got the complaint that it was too low. I was in a weird mood so I decided to try it anyway- It was just something to do to kill 30 mins till the reset.

I made 4/5 items with NO crafting support at all and an under-leveled skill.
I make some cotton THREAD for another leve. I have made more cotton thread than I ever need. I have 3 stacks of it... I botched all 5 synths, and I didn't try to be cute with Bold Synthesis OR Rapid... Lightning is my highest elemental affinity too... Today I made a bunch of Jellyfish Humorus and some enamels for Alchemy and I turned around and botched a Sleeping Powder guildleve...

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 4:04pm by shinichoco


1) This sounds like an issue where you're trying something that has a Training "requirement" and don't have the Training key item. When you are able to purchase the appropriate one for the recipe it will make things much smoother.

2) Some recipes have a minimum rank requirement for a second tradeskill class but will still let you try it if you're close. Leves however will completely ignore a secondary tradeskill requirement when you try to do a leve recipe. Whether this affects the success rate or not is unknown, but the most likely answer is 'probably not' as far as I have seen. YMMV.

3) Since you have so much +Craftsmanship equipped, it is highly possible you may not be meeting Magical Craftsmanship requirements either, but there's no reasonable way to legitimately tell quickly. However, if your usual result on a recipe is failure, try significantly raising Magical Craftsmanship (like with spectacles) and seeing if that made a difference.
#7 Dec 13 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes you will be able to do rank 20 crafts like willow half masks and ash fran. hafts at rank 15 carpentry. No you will not be able to do the same with weaving and the other crafts. I've had more consistency once I switched to adding more mag. craft. to my weaving gear.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 12:39pm by chopstx
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#8 Dec 13 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:
Sleeping Powder guildleve...


Poisons are REALLY hard without the book. TRUFAX.

Humors and enamels don't ask for a training book if I remember correctly.
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#9 Dec 13 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Get a cotton coif, leather tool belt, and appropriate level tools (R7, R12, R17, etc). Don't neglect crafting gear. Here are some other tips.

Use only standard synthesis, wait, and special ability commands.

Pay attention to the orb color. When red, use wait (or better yet, Harmonize or other abilities which changes orb color). Use Tender Touch, this decreases loss in durability.

After an elemental destabilization, use wait once. If the level of the synth is higher than your own rank, consider brute forcing through the destabilization and hope for the best. If the level of the synth is equal or lower than your own rank, try to use wait two more times to get rid of the destabilization. Lightning destabilization hurts the most so it is essential to get rid of destabilization as soon as possible early in the synth.

As others pointed out, watch for recipes that require "common forge/gemmery/tannery/cookery... access". Go to the repair NPC and choose the 2nd option and pay a nominal fee. You don't need crafting facility access unless it's specified within the recipe. In the case that you don't have access to the facility and the recipe needs it, you suffer more durability loss.

If you follow these guildlines, you should have less than 10% fail rate if you do recipes at max 2 levels ahead. If you're still struggling, try to avoid recipes training requirement (e.g. chainweaving, inlaying, fletchery, poisoning, etc.). Good luck.
#10 Dec 13 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think you're mostly running into a lack of training. Without the training, *sometimes* synths can become impossible. I can't prove that it helps, but I always get at least common support when making something I don't have training for. It seems to offset the lack of training somewhat.

It might also be you don't enough m.craft, like others said before, for weaver and alchemist. I also recommend a cotton coif for more control like above.

In addition to the good comments above:

- You should use Maker's Muse and Preserve (and fulfillment later when your rank is high enough to equip it)
- Try to always go either on white; or yellow(or flashing if necessary) + MM/Fulfillment/TenderTouch/etc.
- get to know how long each will last. MM lasts 3 or 4 turns, depending on what you are making. Same with Preserve.
- Once you know the timing, you can plan your next step. For example, suppose you get a red orb on your last MM turn, but preserve pops up. Just use preserve, since I find chances of success are higher on a white orb, than on red+MM. Waiting will only use up MM, and preserve may not pop up again, and the orb may just stay red.

- If you're failing a lot, take a break. It sucks, but I've also run into times where I just keep failing. Something is aligned against you (day + month element, moon phase, maybe fatigue from crafting too much, etc). There are things we don't know if the exist or what effect they have, so just come back to your craft later.

It's all about training. I was very surprised this weekend when I got dyeing training (after getting weaving), and started making dyed velveteen, a rank 39 synth, at rank 30 weaver, with good (80-85% maybe) success rates. Without both weaving and dyeing training, I guarantee you my success rate would have been closer to 20%.

Just a caveat to the above, I'm fully geared up (canvas/velveteen gear, +1 silver needle), stats and elements pumped way up since I'm phys lvl 50.

#11 Dec 13 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Welcome to Crafting.

I've failed something yesterday by spamming standard without looking, that which usually gives me a grand total of 100 SP. Heck, I can even Hasty Hand it with 90% success, and yet it still failed me with standard. Apply Murphy's Law to Crafting, be prepared for the worst.
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#12 Dec 13 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:

1) This sounds like an issue where you're trying something that has a Training "requirement" and don't have the Training key item. When you are able to purchase the appropriate one for the recipe it will make things much smoother.

2) Some recipes have a minimum rank requirement for a second tradeskill class but will still let you try it if you're close. Leves however will completely ignore a secondary tradeskill requirement when you try to do a leve recipe. Whether this affects the success rate or not is unknown, but the most likely answer is 'probably not' as far as I have seen. YMMV.

3) Since you have so much +Craftsmanship equipped, it is highly possible you may not be meeting Magical Craftsmanship requirements either, but there's no reasonable way to legitimately tell quickly. However, if your usual result on a recipe is failure, try significantly raising Magical Craftsmanship (like with spectacles) and seeing if that made a difference.


I have my robe which gives +MCraft that I use mainly for alchemy and weaving as it is attuned to those classes.

I can also appreciate the need for training books but... if I can't DO the guildleves to get the marks how am I supposed to BUY the training books?

chopstx wrote:
Yes you will be able to do rank 20 crafts like willow half masks and ash fran. hafts at rank 15 carpentry. No you will not be able to do the same with weaving and the other crafts. I've had more consistency once I switched to adding more mag. craft. to my weaving gear.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 12:39pm by chopstx

I do use +mCraft for weaving. I have an Elm Spinning Wheel and cotton robes which add to M.Crafting.

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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#13 Dec 13 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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One thing I have learned about crafting and I have done a fair amount of it IS if the item uses any training, example would be dying, than you will have a set failure rate if you don't have that training. If you do, you will gain a slight increase to a noticable increase in success. ALSO!!!! if you are of level and still don't have the training, you will fail even at higher lvls. The reason people in carpentry can craft masks is because there is no training needed. There is no 2nd random "thing" working against them. They are just using gear stats to determine success. This may not seem huge, but in reality makes a very big difference. I can make masks close to 10 lvls over my lvl, but the maple bow i was 3 lvls over for, i failed a lot on till i was significantly over it's lvl. Since you have mentioned clothcraft, I know a lot of the recipes use training. Look into it, you will be surprised.

~Skye
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#14 Dec 13 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:


I have my robe which gives +MCraft that I use mainly for alchemy and weaving as it is attuned to those classes.

I can also appreciate the need for training books but... if I can't DO the guildleves to get the marks how am I supposed to BUY the training books?

[...]
I do use +mCraft for weaving. I have an Elm Spinning Wheel and cotton robes which add to M.Crafting.



Again, not having enough Magical Craftsmanship is just a possibility, not a certainty, since none of us can see the stat requirements. (Hooray for hidden requirements! Not. >_>) This is because supplementary sources of +Magical Craftsmanship are really small compared to Craftsmanship. Non-weathered Thighboots are becoming more available and should be able to boost your feet slot contribution a bit more now, although if you're trying to make it yourself I admit it's still a long way off for you. You may want to just drink Distilled Water, as they're certainly easy enough to make, if you wanted to see if it helped.

Also, tools only give you the stats when you use them. If you equip and unequip the spinning wheel and compare your stats before and after, you'll find it doesn't do anything to the overall stats because the numbers displayed only reflect the primary tool.

..Although that does bring to mind the question of what your primary tools in use are. If all your non-culinarian classes are at least 13, you should be able to make at least the first upgrade if not the second (or third) for every single class. Given your rank range you should be able to make at the very least(with the appropriate support):

Blacksmith: Birdsbeak Hammer
Goldsmith: Bronze Chaser Hammer
Armorer: Bronze Doming Hammer or Bronze Raising Hammer
Weaver: Bronze Needle or Iron Needle
Alchemist: Brass Alembic (Brass Plates might scare you)
Carpenter: Chocobotail Saw (the Ash Saw Grips are only half as scary as they look--the Brass Plates might scare you a little though)
Leatherworker: Bronze Head Knife (Yeah, the upgrades are kind of hard...)

Regarding doing the leves, if you have that much bad luck on them, you can take the other option some people use -- skill up over the leves, and do them with a higher rank advantage.

The post Aurelius put up about "trending" might help you too, but I make no guarantees.
#15 Dec 13 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I can also appreciate the need for training books but... if I can't DO the guildleves to get the marks how am I supposed to BUY the training books?


Just some perspective on that. Me & a lot of people I know relied on the r30 guild quest(3k marks) to add to the 2k from the r20 quest for that 1st training book. Be it horrible luck or whatever, there was a trend there. Now it does seem easier to achieve that 1st book sooner, but it's never been easy to rack up local marks like fighter marks. So like someone said earlier, welcome to crafting!
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#16 Dec 13 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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It certainly feels like they tweaked the mark drop rate. I've got a few myself, even in craft classes, and I don't have a single class to 20 yet.
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