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December Version Updates (12/14/2010)Follow

#52 Dec 14 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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I stopped shopping for 2 weeks now. Simply because I can't bother, and my gear will do so-so until I finally have some 2 hours of leisure to search for an upgrade. So don't tell me the current system entices the bulk of buyers to shop around.
#53Laernu, Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 7:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) so instead of there actually being excitement to us having TWO updates in dec, they are just taking one update, and spliting it up to make it seem to the stock holders they're "really cranking on things".
#54 Dec 14 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Default
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I don't know how else to explain it. ; ;

I guess everyone will have to experience the impact of the search function themselves it unless someone is able to understand what I am trying to explain and is willing and able to explain it clearer then I am able to.

I only know that players are going to be able to spend gil faster then they will be able to make it, and that nothing is really going to change other then now players will have to wait the same amount of time to make gil that they used to have to wait to be able to spend it.

Sorry if I upset anyone, that was not my intention, I was only trying to explain what I understand.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:48am by Gopi
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#55 Dec 14 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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@Laernu
Calm down, kiddie. They just had a major restructuration of their whole development team.
I am actually very impressed they managed to stick to their update plans.

@Gopi
It's not like we don't understand your point; the majority of people just set priorities different than you. For most people with a job and a life it's "making +10000 gil <<<< being able to buy stuff in a reasonable amount of time".

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:48am by Rinsui
#56 Dec 14 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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This is the first I've seen that SE will actually [action omitted to comply with forum posting rules] and give a search feature. The crafting system demands that crafters obtain materials from higher level crafters to advance. At present the only way to complete most receipes is to skip them until you can make the requisite parts or spend dozens of hours searching through the wards hoping that someone actually wasted a bazaar slot to sell the item. For those who are able to create the higher level part they can only hope that someone will stumble across their merchandise and make a purchase. I'm sure I'm not alone in selling most of my crafted parts to NPCs simply because it's not worth the slot to put an item up and have it sit on my retainer for 3 weeks.

A search feature will hurt those who are trying to gouge their customers as the customer will be able to go to those sellers who are asking a fair price. As a seller the player will be able to determine the value of each of the components of the items they are selling apply an appropriate mark up and set prices accordingly. Thus if an item is made from 6 crystals that sell for 300-500 gil a dodo leather that sells for 600-800 gil and a piece lumber that is made from 3 crystals and a log that sells for 1000-1200 gil simple math places the cost of the item at 4300 - 6500. If this item is being sold for 100,000 gil then those sellers deserve to be undercut. If other sellers are offering this item for 3000 gil then don't make it.

Complaining that a search feature will lower prices is completely inaccurate. There is a reason that you don't have any item selling at Wal-Mart for $199.98 and at K-Mart for $49.99. There is also a reason why people do not work for less money than it cost them to eat and drive to work. It's simple economics to sell products for more than they cost to make and less they the competition is selling the same item for. If you want more profit lower your cost or go for a longer delay for a sell. After all if there are seven items selling for 800 gil 3 more selling at 1000 gil and 15 selling for 1500 gil only 10 of them have to sell before someone buys yours fro 1200 gil.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:17am by Nicholiathan
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#58 Dec 14 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
LOL it really amazes me for months everyone has complained the market wards are broken give us a auction house now that there trying to fix the market wards people are complaining about that. There really is no way to make everyone happy.
#59 Dec 14 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Gopi wrote:
Piperith wrote:
Gopi wrote:
Piperith wrote:
Quote:
With a search function, players will be able to find things faster, so they will have time to look for the lowest prices, and then sellers will be waiting longer to make gil as I explained in my previous post.


Why is that a bad thing? A buyer shouldn't have to jump through hoops to give money for something they want.

If a seller wants a quick sale, they can monitor the market and re price accordingly, if the seller want higher profit margins instead of quick sales, they can wait until the lower priced ones are gone and then reap the rewards of having been patient


I am not understanding why you, who are both a seller and buyer at the same time in the game, want to be able to spend gil faster then you can make it?

It only works in real life because we have credit companies.

There are no credit companies in the game.

The search function will speed things up for buyers and slow things down for sellers, and since the sellers are buyers as well, the buyers will have less gil to spend (since they are making gil slower), even though they can now spend it faster...

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:08am by Gopi


Once my items are up for sale, i do not have to spend hours trying to sell it, i dont even have to be at the pc to sell it, if someone wants whatever i may be selling and they believe my price to be good, they will come, they will buy they will leave.

If i need to buy and have only got an hour or two before i have to do something not in game, i dont want to spend 2 hours trying to find the new piece of gear/mat or whatever and wait until my next play session to do the task i wanted to do.

A search function would streamline the buying, selling process for me as a buyer and a seller, how many times have people not bothered buying an item because they couldn't find it amongst all the other rubbish in the ward and i presume many others would also benefit from a streamlined buying / selling process.

if a buyer believes my price to be to high, they will possibly spend some time searching through the different sellers, but if they are happy with my price they will still buy through sheer convenience


With a search function, players will be able to find things faster that they want to buy then they could before, so they will have time to look for the lowest prices, and then sellers will be waiting longer to make gil (since they have to wait for their items to be the lowest price at the exact time players are buying them - undercutting by other players will increase this wait), and since the sellers are also the buyers they are not going to be able to buy the items they want to buy that they can now find faster because they have not made the gil yet...

I am not sure how else to explain what is in my head... I am sorry, I hope you are understanding me.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:36am by Gopi


We understand your statement but... is is wrong... Your source of incomes in FFXIV are NOT only what you get from selling items, you get a constant reasonnable source of gils via leves so one will be able to 'make the gils' when ever needed to buy an item. Moreover, undercutting can provide a way to sell faster because it's cheaper.
However, in the present system, a lot of sellers are not selling because a lot of buyers, simply don't bother with the wards because it's a huge time sink. You can see also see the improvement of the searchable wards by: Instead of trying to spend hours trying to find an item, it will be more like 'I don't feel like spending hours browing each seller for that item to find the cheapest price, I'll just buy from this one'
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#60 Dec 14 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Gopi wrote:
I don't know how else to explain it. ; ;

I guess everyone will have to experience the impact of the search function themselves it unless someone is able to understand what I am trying to explain and is willing and able to explain it clearer then I am able to.

I only know that players are going to be able to spend gil faster then they will be able to make it, and that nothing is really going to change other then now players will have to wait the same amount of time to make gil that they used to have to wait to be able to spend it.

Sorry if I upset anyone, that was not my intention, I was only trying to explain what I understand.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 8:48am by Gopi


I get what your saying, i just dont agree, if someone is selling something, clearly they want buyers, if your retainer cannot be found amongst all the others, you will not make a sale full stop.

When people are buying, they usually have a reasonable idea of what they want and if you are selling what they want, the search function will enable the buyer to see that you are selling that item, therefore they will come to you.

If someone is wanting a particular item, and you are selling that item, unless they want to be picky over a few hundred gil or whatever then they will look for cheaper, however if they believe your price is reasonable for what they want, they will have no need to look at the other sellers.

People tend to know what they want, if they know you have it they will buy, if they get frustrated by not finding you after hours of searching they will go elsewhere, if they have a direct, streamline way of finding you because you have got the item they want, (aslong as you are not grossly overcharging), they will buy. a search function enables this and is truly beneficial to all.

Buyers find what they want quicker.

Sellers get their goods viewed quicker

edited for format

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 9:00am by Piperith

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 9:06am by Piperith
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#61 Dec 14 2010 at 7:57 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
you get a constant reasonable source of gils via leves so one will be able to 'make the gils' when ever needed to buy an item.


Ok, so you are saying leves are like us going to work and picking up a paycheck?

And then we go to the wards (walmart) to spend it?

And that the gil we make in the wards is like an "overtime bonus" on our paychecks?

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 9:06am by Gopi
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#62 Dec 14 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
SharkOutofWater wrote:
Honestly how are people really worried about making less profit in this game? At current prices I can buy everything I want to for the next year and I am far from rich. They gave a means of Profit to everyone through levee that I still think is putting to much money into the system. What dOes current profit really matter? It means way less in this game then FFXI.


Quote:
The search function will speed things up for buyers and slow things down for sellers, and since the sellers are buyers as well, the buyers will have less gil to spend (since they are making gil slower), even though they can now spend it faster...



What I was trying to point out is that making money in the wards isn't the only wY of making money in this game. They give you money for leveling. And at current prices I could not make another dime and be good for a year And I am a pretty casual player. This whole argument is silly since prices need to go UP on most things for these profits your arguing about to even matter.

This isn't ffxi and people need to learn that when pricing things. People are willing to spend alot more then people put thugs up for.
#63 Dec 14 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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/sigh

Still no mention of "further tweaking of SP" to help players post 20...

/cry
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#64 Dec 14 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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ThePacster wrote:
It may be better to simply wait and see before jumping to conclusions.


I didn't think I'd get to post this much when I initially uploaded it here... but since you brought it up ^.^

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OT,

I'm looking forward to the complete patch notes.
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#65 Dec 14 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


Ok so let me get this right, when the game was released we wanted a retainer search feature, now its announced when its coming we dont? some ppl will never be happy.
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#66 Dec 14 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


You know I agree with you; arbitrage is so much fun.
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#67 Dec 14 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
Quote:
you get a constant reasonable source of gils via leves so one will be able to 'make the gils' when ever needed to buy an item.


Ok, so you are saying leves are like us going to work and picking up a paycheck?

And then we go to the wards (walmart) to spend it?

And that the gil we make in the wards is like an "overtime bonus" on our paychecks?

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 9:06am by Gopi




i make plenty of money off leves, and i bearly ever make things to sell cause the market is just lacking buyers it seems. but when i do sell stuff its just extra to me.
i normally farm or barter with others to get what i need rather then spend money
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#68 Dec 14 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Date & Times
Wednesday, December 15, 2010 from 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.


What time zone are the times listed for - GMT? PST?
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#69 Dec 14 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I hope with another free retainer available for each player the wards will be much more organize. Concerning the search function you guys were discussing, I wouldn't mind just as long as it wouldn't be too convenient. if it is so, then I guess I am not going to be able to shop for others. You know, browsing for stuffs that other people wanted to buy then run to the wards and look for cheaper price and sell it to them. It is tax free and made quite a profit from it from spending couple of hours browsing everything. It was kinda fun but of course needs a lot of patience. But if the search function were made easy, then buyers could hardly make profits because if you bought something then you're gonna have to sell it cheaper. Otherwise it won't sell.
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#70 Dec 14 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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Another free retainer per character -- sweet!! This gives players options -- another bazaar? mobile mule?? options!!

Additional changes to the wards is a good thing. Maybe they do need a free-for-all ward where people can dump their stuff, and if someone wants to take the time to look through it all, then so be it. I would also like a crystal only ward, and maybe a trade "junk" ward for cotton bolls, moko grass, etc...

As far as a search function:
If they continue down the same path they previously hinted at, meaning no prices or price ranges visible, then the undercutting argument is pointless. However, if I can pop into the Battlecraft ward in a city, quickly check if someone is selling a pair of Brass Knuckles, see no is, then move on, saving myself time from searching the billions of retainers there, then that is total win for the players. That becomes productive time I can spend doing leves, or crafting, or whatever, instead of feeling like I have wasted it. I spent 3 hours total over this weekend looking for Brass Knuckles in each city -- not cool.

As far as the undercutting, its going to happen, whether by accident or on purpose. As a Tanner, I get lots of skins from tanner leves. If I make a bunch of sheep leather, 4 stacks, and put them up for 1200 per stack, then thats what I believe my time to make and the cost of any additional mats, willow chips and shards is worth. If someone else comes along, gets a couple of sheep leather as drops from some mobs, puts a stack up for 600, then that is what that person thinks their time is worth to hunt the mobs that drop them. That, or maybe they are wanting to quickly sell those items, because they NPC for next to nothing and the person still wants to turn a bit of a "profit". If two people are competing to try and make a profit off something, and they continually undercut the other, the buyers win, and eventually the sellers realize, "this is the lowest I can go before my time and mats feel wasted."

The markets will always find a way to stabilize themselves.
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#71 Dec 14 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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Good to see an update coming :o)

Would much prefered
1) AH, hands down the best solution and only one i personaly want to use.
2) we need MAIL plz trio trading to get gear/mats to 3 alts is highly annoying <<<understatement
3) second retainer : TY! :o) (still need purchaseable retainers asap!)
4) activate rented chocobos
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#72 Dec 14 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Default
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Meowshi wrote:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/index.html#5aaa4bab31acc4b17afb1c695e82a85e1d21e2e2


* Further improvements to the naming and organization of market wards
* An additional free retainer slot
* Improved response times on the retainer exchange interface


so SE will stick with their ****** retainer plan and have no intention to install AH.
nice, when it is not free, this game is over, at least to me that is the case.
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#73 Dec 14 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Wouldnt it be interesting if they removed the battlecraft ward and renamed it and every other ward something more appropriate?
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#74 Dec 14 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
so SE will stick with their ****** retainer plan and have no intention to install AH.


AH: Takes 6 months to implement

Marketplace search: Takes 2 months to implement

Should they wait 6 months before doing anything about the market issue or apply these hotfixes for the time being?

I think the answer is rather simple.
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#75 Dec 14 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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And posters will pull 90% of arbitrary dates out of their *** and assign them to tasks they have no idea how long it would take in order to prove what?

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 11:16am by SabastianSeraph
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#76 Dec 14 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Extra Retainer!

Predict: Olorinus is going to be very happy about this.

Extended chat length is a very welcome improvement.

Ward search function is getting closer. The best part of the search function will be - if the item is not available, you can just leave.
#77 Dec 14 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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I know this is small, but I'm so happy about text increase
#78 Dec 14 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Extra Retainer!

Predict: Olorinus is going to be very happy about this.

Extended chat length is a very welcome improvement.

Ward search function is getting closer. The best part of the search function will be - if the item is not available, you can just leave.



Yeah since players in this game are so talk-active. /end sarcasm
#79 Dec 14 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
ThePacster wrote:
Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


It may be better to simply wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Last time I checked, when they first mentioned implementation of a search function, they said it would simply tell you who is selling the item with an icon over their heads so they're easy to find, not necessarily how much they're selling it for. Of course, this may change or have already changed and we just haven't heard anything regarding it yet.


Even with just being able to find everything faster, that means players will want to take the time to find the absolute lowest price they can in the time they have to play.

Trust me, it will no longer be a seller's market, and players are going to be crying to SE this time because they are not able to make the gil they were able to make before.


There's about 20 other posts I could quote saying the exact same thing by you. Give it a rest. I have over 7m gil in this game. I've made probably less than 500k of that by selling stuff on my retainer. I'm going to bold this so you understand it. Making gil in this game is EASY. Currently, it is FAR easier than spending gil. If a search function helps to balance that out, I'm all for it. I'm sorry that YOU clearly have issues making gil in this game, the vast majority of the rest of us don't and can do so without stepping foot inside the wards if we so choose.
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#80 Dec 14 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Am I the only one who's irked by the lack of the feature that remembers your 8 most recently used synthesis recipes?
#81 Dec 14 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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dyunei wrote:

Am I the only one who's irked by the lack of the feature that remembers your 8 most recently used synthesis recipes?


no, but remember its a 2 part december update, so maybe they are just pushing whats ready now and finishing up the rest in a week or 2
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#82 Dec 14 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah you have a point there sir, it just saddens me that it seems to have fallen by the wayside a bit, but on the plus side the retainer thing is great news!
#83 Dec 14 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Making gil in this game is EASY. Currently, it is FAR easier than spending gil. If a search function helps to balance that out, I'm all for it.


+1 this. I usually craft, gather or bater for all of my gear/mats but lately I've been buying them because I realized I hadn't actually bought anything in weeks. Sounds odd but I felt bad for not contributing to the economy.

OT:

My favorite part of the update so far is the extra retainer, I tend to hoard things > >
#84 Dec 14 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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ceciltaru wrote:
Additional changes to the wards is a good thing. Maybe they do need a free-for-all ward where people can dump their stuff, and if someone wants to take the time to look through it all, then so be it. I would also like a crystal only ward, and maybe a trade "junk" ward for cotton bolls, moko grass, etc...


I'm really hoping they reorganize the wards so the first ward is a miscellaneous ward. We don't need MORE wards, just better organization. Perhaps now they'll combine some of the armor wards into "cloth armor, leather armor, metal armor" instead of "hats, gloves, shoes, pants, etc."
#85 Dec 14 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Mykha wrote:
market ward name changes? are they still on about that? give me my f***ing auction house before I shoot up a mcdonald's.


Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Read this carefully. No search function in the first December update and the "first of several changes" in the next so don't get your hopes up for much of consequence at all in December. The second retainer is a move to soften the blow, as is the preemptive statement of assurance that ongoing improvements will be coming. What they're saying is, although we promised to fix this in December updates, we aren't going to be able to do it but please trust us that more will come later.


From what I understood from behind all the PR-speech, A) the search feature is delayed by a few weeks, and B) it is going to be rather simple system for the time being, and it will be made more comprehensive and functional as time goes on.


Mykha,
You took the words right out of my mouth...

Hyanmen,
I would prefer some sort of simple search right now so I can at least find the items I need. I can handle simple right now if knowing they will improve on it as time goes on. My patience is wearing thin, as much as I love this game and I don't want to see it fail, I need to be able to find items that I need or want in order to progress, and I can't do that. I think many players patience is wearing thin.

I am happy they are adding content and giving us a retainer, however a stable market IS A MUST and should have been implemented from day 1...that didn't happen, but they have had 3 monthes or many fans fussing and they still have yet to deliver...
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#86 Dec 14 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The search function will speed things up for buyers and slow things down for sellers

This made me smile. You realise that the buyers are buying from the sellers, right? Every time a buyer buys something quickly, a seller has just sold something. It's not possible for purchases to speed up and sales to slow down, because every purchase is a sale.

If sellers undercut you, then their stuff will sell first. Then, when their stuff has sold, your stuff will sell if it is priced reasonably. Only if everyone undercuts you will your stuff not sell. However, at that point it's not that people are undercutting you; it's that you are charging more than the going rate.

Undercutting is not an indefinite cycle whereby prices continue to drop perpetually and somehow no seller ever manages to sell anything.

A search feature that includes prices will make prices immediately drop to the current "going" rate, because overpriced items will no longer sell to people who can't be bothered finding alternative sellers. However, that is a one-time process, after which prices will stabilize. Undercut items will still sell first, but will also sell out quickly and therefore have little influence on the overall market, being visible only to the handful of people who happened to have found the deal before it disappeared.
#88 Dec 14 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am seeing people debate the value of the Ward Search function?



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 1:26pm by RufuSwho
#89 Dec 14 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
EmiyaShirou wrote:
btw. i just hope that the search functionality will only shown who is selling items of the type you are looking or specific item without the prices ^^ I don't wanna see prices there ;)

And btw. i still somehow want to feel the climate like I'm on market with people, not on auction house ^^ In which case, who beat the lowest price Wins. And if people wanna know the prices, they can run to each retainer that is marked of having that item and check the price ^^ That's how markets work in RL, and that should be normal in game.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 7:14am by EmiyaShirou



i like the idea of what you have here.. go to the middle room of the ward, search for the item, and then potentially highlight the retainers that carry it?? that would be a great feature instead of listing prices.. just kinda point out which retainers have what im lookin for, so i can still browse, but know that i have a destination in mind.. sorta like going through a mall!
thanks for sharing this! i really hope this becomes the future vision of what they are plannin on doing!
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#90 Dec 14 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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GennarioVeltaine wrote:
EmiyaShirou wrote:
btw. i just hope that the search functionality will only shown who is selling items of the type you are looking or specific item without the prices ^^ I don't wanna see prices there ;)

And btw. i still somehow want to feel the climate like I'm on market with people, not on auction house ^^ In which case, who beat the lowest price Wins. And if people wanna know the prices, they can run to each retainer that is marked of having that item and check the price ^^ That's how markets work in RL, and that should be normal in game.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 7:14am by EmiyaShirou



i like the idea of what you have here.. go to the middle room of the ward, search for the item, and then potentially highlight the retainers that carry it?? that would be a great feature instead of listing prices.. just kinda point out which retainers have what im lookin for, so i can still browse, but know that i have a destination in mind.. sorta like going through a mall!
thanks for sharing this! i really hope this becomes the future vision of what they are plannin on doing!


Problem with this method...adding more retainers means more crowded Wards, meaning more memory usage per Ward. Right now..you go into a ward...you only see the retainers standing around you. So flagging ones that you cannot see has very little value. You still have to run about 10 feet and stop...let the retainers fill in, see if they are there...and so on.

No matter what they do...the retainer system is clunky at best. If they want use retainers...fine...but please don't make us have to search them out and click on them. Sure..its a little better than what we have now...but still? I don't consider that activity as "fun".
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#91 Dec 14 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
I am seeing people debate the value of the Ward Search function?



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 1:26pm by RufuSwho



Maybe people really have given up hope that something so fundamentally illogical can be fixed and now they are waiting for the natural solution: something else.

We all know what that is.
#92 Dec 14 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
I am seeing people debate the value of the Ward Search function?



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 1:26pm by RufuSwho



This made me laugh . . . .

random dorkus omfg no search function!!!


SE ok so we are adding a search function, then working to further improve.


random dorkus . . . uh um why they adding search functions? this will break game


SE /facepalm shut down servers, these people are clueless XD


I am so sorry but anyone who called that out in this thread . . . I mean why? really? did you have to?
Search is an improvement
allows people to buy
keeps prices stable
stimulates spending
gil is easy to earn

how can anyone argue different? I mean seriously the people complaining are you worried that you can't overcharge on things by 4x or more?

all the other posters you guys have said pretty interesting things, i am excited to see what comes by in terms of content. My hopes are that we get npc quests/cs's and I would be stoked if there are more than 5 NM's added. My world would be complete if there were say 5 nm's per main city and at least say 20-30 nm's around the land. Oh and SP balancing is a given.
#93 Dec 14 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Did we already know about the text input length increase? This is very welcome news Smiley: thumbsup


Indeed it is! Almost every message I've sent has been cut off due to the character limit.
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#94 Dec 14 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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141 posts
Simool wrote:
GennarioVeltaine wrote:
EmiyaShirou wrote:
btw. i just hope that the search functionality will only shown who is selling items of the type you are looking or specific item without the prices ^^ I don't wanna see prices there ;)

And btw. i still somehow want to feel the climate like I'm on market with people, not on auction house ^^ In which case, who beat the lowest price Wins. And if people wanna know the prices, they can run to each retainer that is marked of having that item and check the price ^^ That's how markets work in RL, and that should be normal in game.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 7:14am by EmiyaShirou



i like the idea of what you have here.. go to the middle room of the ward, search for the item, and then potentially highlight the retainers that carry it?? that would be a great feature instead of listing prices.. just kinda point out which retainers have what im lookin for, so i can still browse, but know that i have a destination in mind.. sorta like going through a mall!
thanks for sharing this! i really hope this becomes the future vision of what they are plannin on doing!


Problem with this method...adding more retainers means more crowded Wards, meaning more memory usage per Ward. Right now..you go into a ward...you only see the retainers standing around you. So flagging ones that you cannot see has very little value. You still have to run about 10 feet and stop...let the retainers fill in, see if they are there...and so on.

No matter what they do...the retainer system is clunky at best. If they want use retainers...fine...but please don't make us have to search them out and click on them. Sure..its a little better than what we have now...but still? I don't consider that activity as "fun".

To @Simool: Cuss you have an lazy *** my friend ;) And that isn't a good sign... I don't want to pay for a game for people who are lazy on daily basics on things they shouldn't be lazy... I would say anything if it was for free, but i will pay for this, i want some quality...

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 5:42pm by EmiyaShirou
#95 Dec 14 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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At this point I'd be happy if the update just fixed the "crash 2x a day" bug.
I've about had it with logging in to find my retainer has yet again sold nothing, as it's been reset for an unknown amount of time, only to check on it befoer I log out, and find it once again, missing. I don't even bother to rent stalls anymore, as it seems I'm paying 500 gil twice a day for 3 hours of stall time.
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#96 Dec 14 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
GennarioVeltaine wrote:
EmiyaShirou wrote:
btw. i just hope that the search functionality will only shown who is selling items of the type you are looking or specific item without the prices ^^ I don't wanna see prices there ;)

And btw. i still somehow want to feel the climate like I'm on market with people, not on auction house ^^ In which case, who beat the lowest price Wins. And if people wanna know the prices, they can run to each retainer that is marked of having that item and check the price ^^ That's how markets work in RL, and that should be normal in game.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 7:14am by EmiyaShirou



i like the idea of what you have here.. go to the middle room of the ward, search for the item, and then potentially highlight the retainers that carry it?? that would be a great feature instead of listing prices.. just kinda point out which retainers have what im lookin for, so i can still browse, but know that i have a destination in mind.. sorta like going through a mall!
thanks for sharing this! i really hope this becomes the future vision of what they are plannin on doing!


Problem with this method...adding more retainers means more crowded Wards, meaning more memory usage per Ward. Right now..you go into a ward...you only see the retainers standing around you. So flagging ones that you cannot see has very little value. You still have to run about 10 feet and stop...let the retainers fill in, see if they are there...and so on.

No matter what they do...the retainer system is clunky at best. If they want use retainers...fine...but please don't make us have to search them out and click on them. Sure..its a little better than what we have now...but still? I don't consider that activity as "fun".

Actuall, there are any number of quick fixes to this problem. The first that pops to mind is rewriting the priority of loading Retainers in Wards so that highlighted NPCs always get priority (we already know they can do this, because it was something they did for Repair NPCs not too long ago).

Of course, that doesn't fix the fundumental overriding problem.... Which is, if a person doesn't like the Retainer system, no amount of fixing it is going to make as good as an AH is his or her mind. Alternatively, if you see a glimmer of hope in the pile of excrament that is the retainer system (let's face it, very few people think the system works terribly well as it was released), switching to the classical AH system will seem like SE gave up just because they couldn't think of anything. The developement team really has put themselves in a position where someone is going to complain no matter what they do.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:02pm by Hulan
#97 Dec 14 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Default
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for gods sake give us an AH. i HATE THE MARKET WARDS... the npc who stands in limsa outside the Ah symbol talks of the cries of the tortured inside.. well just move him to the market wards entrance then you got it right...

hours spent searching on retainers we cannot see half the time until they pop, who knows what bazaars we have missed trying to click on one, then the others.. its a NIGHTMARE...

I just want the nightmare to end.. i would like to sell stuff, but i wont put my retainer in there as it means i have to go look for it when i need stuff so i dont sell anything.. I was soo hoping for a search function this time...i am sick of spending hours seeking things i need and never find them.. and now again NO search... i dont think i can take much more

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:01pm by isania
#98 Dec 14 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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It's true that price competition will drive down the prices for items.

At the same time, increasing the ease of using the market wards should increase participation quite a bit. Right now, a lot of players just don't go in there, don't buy, don't sell, don't want to deal. If suddenly I can go in and say "hey, who's got the brass rivets?" and get pointed to brass rivets, I'm a lot more likely to shop a lot more often.

The price-reducing effects of competition will be at least partially offset, and more probably completely overwhelmed by, the increase in demand represented by people who were formerly not in the market (i.e. could not be bothered spending an hour searching for a minor item) but now will participate in the market.

To put it in another fashion, all transactions on the market previously had a "time tax", that represented the amount of time needed by a player who wished to buy to locate the item in a ward somewhere. Reducing the time tax will mean that the market-clearing price of items will rise. Some margins might go down (especially on commodity items that were relatively easy to find, such as shards), but the viability of a market in a bewildering array of specialty items will suddenly become viable. In addition, crafting as a whole should see a stimulus, as it becomes easier to locate ingredients that the crafter might not be able to produce themselves, ESPECIALLY those materials which are relatively higher-level to produce but cheap because of the quantity they come in. Wire, rivets, squares, straps, stuffing, all sorts of stuff will become worth buying (especially since they tend to get produced in much bigger batches than you need immediately!)
#99 Dec 14 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
keeps prices stable


Doubt this since I don't think they'll show prices, just retainers carrying items BUT I agree with every other point you made. I honestly don't even see the point of the Wards any more. I like some things with them like how you can be shopping and run into someone needing a quick fix or shards or something and you in turn make a quick gil but they implementation of the entire thing is shaky at best. Looking forward to see what they do with it though.
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#100 Dec 14 2010 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
The addition of an extra retainer might make things worse without the search feature, now the first 4-5 wards are going to a disaster.
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#101Laernu, Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 12:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) kiddie? I'm 29 and work in law enforcement, if you want cleaner language go f'ing play hello kitty mommas boy.
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