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#102 Dec 15 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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kiddie? I'm 29 and work in law enforcement, if you want cleaner language go f'ing play hello kitty mommas boy.

Then you should probably be a little embarrassed that posts like this one make you sound 12 years old.
#103 Dec 15 2010 at 4:43 AM Rating: Decent
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kiddie? I'm 29 and work in law enforcement, if you want cleaner language go f'ing play hello kitty mommas boy.

Then you should probably be a little embarrassed that posts like this one make you sound 12 years old.

or like 90% of average plumber joe american men? not a bad thing,its just "language" can be quite trivial to use as a weapon against someone especially when the point is clear.
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#104 Dec 15 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I know most people will probbaly disagree with me but I really wish that any Search Function they do place in the words only works for the appropriate items in each ward. Searching things like Ash Lumber in Battleward will give you an invalid search or something.

This way then maybe people will learn to place their retainers properlly. Crystals/Shards/Clusters are the exception and they should have a ward all for themselves.
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#105 Dec 15 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
This way then maybe people will learn to place their retainers properlly. Crystals/Shards/Clusters are the exception and they should have a ward all for themselves.


I agree with only being able to search for items that belong in a particular ward but the problem is that even with two retainers if you have three different types of things one of them must go into the wrong ward. So if I have a shield (battle ward) a bolt of hemp cloth (weavers) and a maple log (carpenters) where to I put my two retainers. The solution would be to have the retainer move to the appropriate ward based on one of two conditions set by the seller. Either the ward of the retainer's most expensive item or the ward for the item with the greatest quantity. As long as it doesn't result in 19 retainers standing in the same spot this would be perfect.
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#106 Dec 15 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Nicholiathan wrote:
Hugus wrote:
This way then maybe people will learn to place their retainers properlly. Crystals/Shards/Clusters are the exception and they should have a ward all for themselves.


I agree with only being able to search for items that belong in a particular ward but the problem is that even with two retainers if you have three different types of things one of them must go into the wrong ward. So if I have a shield (battle ward) a bolt of hemp cloth (weavers) and a maple log (carpenters) where to I put my two retainers. The solution would be to have the retainer move to the appropriate ward based on one of two conditions set by the seller. Either the ward of the retainer's most expensive item or the ward for the item with the greatest quantity. As long as it doesn't result in 19 retainers standing in the same spot this would be perfect.


In your example there is a very simple thing you can do, use your character's bazar to place the third item. Even so I understand that event his is not possible sometimes.

What I meant to say is that people will still be able to place items in the "wrong" ward, just that any search function for that item, while in the wrong ward, would not work or give a result.

As a seller it is your decision on which ward to use to either have the item sold quicker or at a better price but people in general should learn to use the wards appropriatly.Myself I barelly ever go into battleward because I know it will have a lot of retainers whith nothing related to the item I'm looking for.
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#107 Dec 15 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


I can translate this post for everyone:

"They're going to try to make a working economy? Boo on that, I was having fun overcharging people because there is no way to comparison shop."

EDIT:

I just finished reading the entire thread and every post you made makes me angrier. You WANT buyers to take MORE time to find an item so that they just get tired of searching and don't check prices and buy the first ripped hauby they see (yours) for 100k more than the avg price???

Forgive me if I'm not in favor of time sinks to fund your sh*tty activities. Undercutting, while it sucks sometimes, is how the WORLD economy works. Look at Walmart. They made an empire undercutting everything.

It's also how the poor people on "peopleatwalmart.com" get their condoms and big screen tvs.

I want my big screen tv but I can't afford to spend 6 hours in the market wards just to ensure I don't pay double the price.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 8:32am by Louiscool
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#108 Dec 15 2010 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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A 29 year old kiddie. The worst type.
Grown a body like an adult, but still dependent on strong language
to prove his manhood. Not able to differenciate between true coolness
and enacted one. Sad.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 8:52am by Rinsui
#109 Dec 15 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


I can translate this post for everyone:

"They're going to try to make a working economy? Boo on that, I was having fun overcharging people because there is no way to comparison shop."

EDIT:

I just finished reading the entire thread and every post you made makes me angrier. You WANT buyers to take MORE time to find an item so that they just get tired of searching and don't check prices and buy the first ripped hauby they see (yours) for 100k more than the avg price???

Forgive me if I'm not in favor of time sinks to fund your sh*tty activities. Undercutting, while it sucks sometimes, is how the WORLD economy works. Look at Walmart. They made an empire undercutting everything.

It's also how the poor people on "peopleatwalmart.com" get their condoms and big screen tvs.

I want my big screen tv but I can't afford to spend 6 hours in the market wards just to ensure I don't pay double the price.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 8:32am by Louiscool


His point is correct actually. No, we don't need to spend more time than curretly to find items - but an AH like FFXI isn't the right way to go. The goal of SE is to make it more like the real world where sometimes you spend a little more money out of convenience. You sitll know where to find what you need easily... but sometimes you grab bread at Walgreens and pay 50% more, rather than driving further to the cheapest grocery store. What this does is allow more people to successfully have a business rather than one or two mass producing crafters to dominate the undercutting market (which would likely end up being rmt).

Have you ever been to a smallish town that now has a giant super walmart? Half the town has empty, abandoned commerical buildings that once used to be successful businesses. Walmart did nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean that it was good for the local economy. SE is taking a "spread the wealth" approach to implementing the economy - otherwise the RMT will end up tipping the balance sooner than later simply due to them being able to play for 24hours a day, and of course having motivation only to make gil - not have fun with other content.



#110 Dec 15 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
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so SE will stick with their ****** retainer plan and have no intention to install AH.


AH: Takes 6 months to implement

Marketplace search: Takes 2 months to implement

Should they wait 6 months before doing anything about the market issue or apply these hotfixes for the time being?

I think the answer is rather simple.



I promise you there will be an AH fall back plan in place prior to PS3 release. They might try to make the retianer system work for awhile longer - but if there isn't a huge turnaround and mass acceptance by hte community in the next couple of months, there will be an AH for the PS3 release.

Under no circumstances will they allow the PS3 version to be released without the market issues being fixed. They have to get positive reviews this time around or its over.
#111 Dec 15 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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EmiyaShirou wrote:
Simool wrote:
GennarioVeltaine wrote:
EmiyaShirou wrote:
btw. i just hope that the search functionality will only shown who is selling items of the type you are looking or specific item without the prices ^^ I don't wanna see prices there ;)

And btw. i still somehow want to feel the climate like I'm on market with people, not on auction house ^^ In which case, who beat the lowest price Wins. And if people wanna know the prices, they can run to each retainer that is marked of having that item and check the price ^^ That's how markets work in RL, and that should be normal in game.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 7:14am by EmiyaShirou



i like the idea of what you have here.. go to the middle room of the ward, search for the item, and then potentially highlight the retainers that carry it?? that would be a great feature instead of listing prices.. just kinda point out which retainers have what im lookin for, so i can still browse, but know that i have a destination in mind.. sorta like going through a mall!
thanks for sharing this! i really hope this becomes the future vision of what they are plannin on doing!


Problem with this method...adding more retainers means more crowded Wards, meaning more memory usage per Ward. Right now..you go into a ward...you only see the retainers standing around you. So flagging ones that you cannot see has very little value. You still have to run about 10 feet and stop...let the retainers fill in, see if they are there...and so on.

No matter what they do...the retainer system is clunky at best. If they want use retainers...fine...but please don't make us have to search them out and click on them. Sure..its a little better than what we have now...but still? I don't consider that activity as "fun".

To @Simool: Cuss you have an lazy *** my friend ;) And that isn't a good sign... I don't want to pay for a game for people who are lazy on daily basics on things they shouldn't be lazy... I would say anything if it was for free, but i will pay for this, i want some quality...

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 5:42pm by EmiyaShirou


Well chief...if I am a lazy ***...then you pretty much called the entire player base of FFXI, WOW, EQ2...etc a lazy ***. Ya know...where you can buy something and not make it a mini-game. If wanting buying and selling to be easier...then yes, I am a lazy ***. Please don't tell my mom.
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#112 Dec 15 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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Get Rid of the wards and retainers, and bring in an AH Jeez!
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#113 Dec 15 2010 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
I know most people will probbaly disagree with me but I really wish that any Search Function they do place in the words only works for the appropriate items in each ward. Searching things like Ash Lumber in Battleward will give you an invalid search or something.

This way then maybe people will learn to place their retainers properlly. Crystals/Shards/Clusters are the exception and they should have a ward all for themselves.


I believe that is what SE will do, to reinforce their desire of people selling in the correct ward. Otherwise, what's the point to the different ward categories if you can simply search for anything anywhere?

Nicholiathan wrote:
I agree with only being able to search for items that belong in a particular ward but the problem is that even with two retainers if you have three different types of things one of them must go into the wrong ward. So if I have a shield (battle ward) a bolt of hemp cloth (weavers) and a maple log (carpenters) where to I put my two retainers. The solution would be to have the retainer move to the appropriate ward based on one of two conditions set by the seller. Either the ward of the retainer's most expensive item or the ward for the item with the greatest quantity. As long as it doesn't result in 19 retainers standing in the same spot this would be perfect.


Honestly, for me this isn't a problem since I mainly sell gears. I choose the clothier ward because it gets the most foot traffic, but I don't just sell body armor, I also have belts, pants, gloves, hats and boots. Basically any gears I can get good skills on, have a market demand and have the materials for. So if a person is looking to upgrade his body piece, it's very likely he'll want to upgrade something else as well.

I understand that when people first start out they may toss whatever they find in the bazaar, but after one has been playing a while he should know exactly what he wants to specialize in (and therefore what he wants to be selling), rather than a miscellaneous group of items. I think a given bazaar (personal or retainer) tells a lot about that player.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 9:39am by atsalaz
#114 Dec 15 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
In regards the Wards and people crying out for AH, there are ways around undercutting, SE could implement a function where the seller can only update the sell price every 24 hrs. Although this wouldnt completely eradicate the issue it will help people make a profit in that that 24hr window. Loving the extra retainer going to make sorting/selling gear easier, they should also increase the amount of items a retainer can sell to 20? 30?
#115 Dec 15 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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First and foremost, I hope they change the name of each market ward so that it's clear what items are (supposedly) being sold there. Not sure if something is getting lost in translation or if they are trying to keep the names of wards in-line with the fantasy world of Eorzea, but I find the current ward names confusing.

#116 Dec 15 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
In your example there is a very simple thing you can do, use your character's bazar to place the third item.


Now you have brought up a very good question. Will player bazaars be included in the search function?

My guess is, not at first.



Edited, Dec 15th 2010 10:33am by RufuSwho
#117 Dec 15 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Please no. And force-logout afk sellers that constantly block my entrance to the adventurer's guild.
#118 Dec 15 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Gopi wrote:
Piperith wrote:
Thats a possibility Gopi but anything that means i dont have to spend a number of hours trying to find something amongst all the rubbish in the wrong wards as is generally the case, i am all for, even if it means being undercut by other players, thats what happens all over the place with prices, Seller A undercuts Seller B, Seller B undercuts back when they find out, eventually the price settles because both sellers are unwilling to go lower.


You will understand the impact when you no longer have the gil to buy everything you were buying before because you are not making the same profit you were making before.


Your profit will depend on how many players undercut you while you were away from your retainer instead of how many players that needed what you were selling looked at your retainer.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:58am by Gopi
If all prices go down because of people being able to compare prices, then, well, all prices go down. So, I may not make as much profit, but I will not have to spend as much to buy things either. Just being able to find what I want to buy will mean I will buy more stuff. As it is right now, I mostly just look around for a few minutes for something then give up.

Not to mention that none of that will affect a constant gil source: guildleves.
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#119 Dec 15 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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If the wards become searchable, I really see no problem at all with this system...

Why is it that people are so determined to get an Auction House in this game?

The way I see it, as long as I can locate the items I need- It really doesn't matter. Sellers will be able to sell.. buyers will be able to buy...

People worried about "undercutting" I got a news flash for you- In every game that has an AH, I undercut everyone. I don't care what the item is.

I'm in ur AH, ruining your profitz.
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#120 Dec 15 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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MaverickBG wrote:
If the wards become searchable, I really see no problem at all with this system...

Why is it that people are so determined to get an Auction House in this game?

The way I see it, as long as I can locate the items I need- It really doesn't matter. Sellers will be able to sell.. buyers will be able to buy...

People worried about "undercutting" I got a news flash for you- In every game that has an AH, I undercut everyone. I don't care what the item is.

I'm in ur AH, ruining your profitz.


the reason people want an AH so bad and nothing else is because they cant imagine how anything else can possibly work
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#121 Dec 15 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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To be honest, i couldn't care less about an AH. The only thing really lacking in my opinion is an in-game search function. I hate having to play windowed mode to search YG for stuff.

Anyway I am more concerned about things that are already in game but not unlocked like the gambling place in Uldah or the little recreational area in gridania that looks like a theater/stage setup. And chocobos :) Oh and the apparent extra jobs like musketeer and arcanist.
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#122 Dec 15 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Shredmastah wrote:
To be honest, i couldn't care less about an AH. The only thing really lacking in my opinion is an in-game search function. I hate having to play windowed mode to search YG for stuff.

Anyway I am more concerned about things that are already in game but not unlocked like the gambling place in Uldah or the little recreational area in gridania that looks like a theater/stage setup. And chocobos :) Oh and the apparent extra jobs like musketeer and arcanist.


that stage area in grid is part of the storyline actualy
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#123 Dec 15 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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"We realize time is of the essence and are fully determined to provide our customers with quality service. It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV's new direction."

New direction. New Direction. New Direction.

I really don't think we should be getting to hung up on the current details of where the game is at...or even about the next 2 updates. Those updates are from the previous regime...and need to be released because they had already promised them. But...I wouldn't get too comfortable with anything at this point. Even if they add a search feature for the retainers...it may be gone in the coming months. The only way for SE to make a splash is to make some MAJOR changes. The parts of the game that received the most criticism will likely be the parts that are overhauled. retainers - gone? UI - changed to reflect 2011...not 2005? Combat/SP/Exp - updated/changed/streamlined. If these items are not to be significantly changed/adjusted...then why change so many parts in the development team and cancel the PS3 release.

Problem is...the more they change...the more they break. So...they are really counting our the FF community for patience. I'm thinking in 12 months...what we end up will be very different than what we started with.
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#124 Dec 15 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Vedis wrote:
MaverickBG wrote:
If the wards become searchable, I really see no problem at all with this system...

Why is it that people are so determined to get an Auction House in this game?

The way I see it, as long as I can locate the items I need- It really doesn't matter. Sellers will be able to sell.. buyers will be able to buy...

People worried about "undercutting" I got a news flash for you- In every game that has an AH, I undercut everyone. I don't care what the item is.

I'm in ur AH, ruining your profitz.


the reason people want an AH so bad and nothing else is because they cant imagine how anything else can possibly work


I can't speak for other people, but I want an AH because the market ward (after all promised features/updates are implemented) will be a poor imitation of an auction house at best. I'd rather have a centralized/linked auction house that I can use with ease rather than dealing with my retainer to sell stuff, and having to search out others' retainers in remote locations to buy items at the best price possible.
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#125 Dec 15 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Default
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


I can translate this post for everyone:

"They're going to try to make a working economy? Boo on that, I was having fun overcharging people because there is no way to comparison shop."

EDIT:

I just finished reading the entire thread and every post you made makes me angrier. You WANT buyers to take MORE time to find an item so that they just get tired of searching and don't check prices and buy the first ripped hauby they see (yours) for 100k more than the avg price???

Forgive me if I'm not in favor of time sinks to fund your sh*tty activities. Undercutting, while it sucks sometimes, is how the WORLD economy works. Look at Walmart. They made an empire undercutting everything.

It's also how the poor people on "peopleatwalmart.com" get their condoms and big screen tvs.

I want my big screen tv but I can't afford to spend 6 hours in the market wards just to ensure I don't pay double the price.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 8:32am by Louiscool


His point is correct actually. No, we don't need to spend more time than curretly to find items - but an AH like FFXI isn't the right way to go. The goal of SE is to make it more like the real world where sometimes you spend a little more money out of convenience. You sitll know where to find what you need easily... but sometimes you grab bread at Walgreens and pay 50% more, rather than driving further to the cheapest grocery store. What this does is allow more people to successfully have a business rather than one or two mass producing crafters to dominate the undercutting market (which would likely end up being rmt).

Have you ever been to a smallish town that now has a giant super walmart? Half the town has empty, abandoned commerical buildings that once used to be successful businesses. Walmart did nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean that it was good for the local economy. SE is taking a "spread the wealth" approach to implementing the economy - otherwise the RMT will end up tipping the balance sooner than later simply due to them being able to play for 24hours a day, and of course having motivation only to make gil - not have fun with other content.




I live in a small town with a walmart. We have a local drug store, hardware store, 6 Mom and Pop shops selling everything from jewlry, yarn crafts and clothing and an IGA. If anything Walmart has the economy here booming. It started a lot of new jobs giving people more mony to shop at all the local stores. Its called the trikel down effect you should look it up some time.

I love how people play MMO's and think they know everything about how an economy works.
#126 Dec 15 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
"We realize time is of the essence and are fully determined to provide our customers with quality service. It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV's new direction."

New direction. New Direction. New Direction.

I really don't think we should be getting to hung up on the current details of where the game is at...or even about the next 2 updates. Those updates are from the previous regime...and need to be released because they had already promised them. But...I wouldn't get too comfortable with anything at this point. Even if they add a search feature for the retainers...it may be gone in the coming months. The only way for SE to make a splash is to make some MAJOR changes. The parts of the game that received the most criticism will likely be the parts that are overhauled. retainers - gone? UI - changed to reflect 2011...not 2005? Combat/SP/Exp - updated/changed/streamlined. If these items are not to be significantly changed/adjusted...then why change so many parts in the development team and cancel the PS3 release.

Problem is...the more they change...the more they break. So...they are really counting our the FF community for patience. I'm thinking in 12 months...what we end up will be very different than what we started with.


The joke of New direction. New Direction. New Direction., is that the market ward as was commercially released was 8 years old, and invented by XI players - aka Rolanberry Mall. Nothing new about it. It was a player-made way of dodging taxes, and in no way fun to browse through. And there were only 50 or so bazaars to check, not 700.
All SE did was slap a roof on it, and at first just number the roofs. Then they named the roofs, which of course helped little to not at all.
If you can't measure supply, all crafting careers are just time-bombs of failure. All the talk of undercutting and price history- these things are nothing compared to the handicap of not knowing if you are producing something that is already being sold by 300 people. It's what WILL cause the collapse of the economy. Once crafters are tired of blindly banging their heads into walls, and are stuck with overstock, they will of course stop crafting. No one is going to go kill mobs all day for no reason if there isn't SP or drops or SOME reason, you don't even bother with that mob. Same goes for crafting, if there's no reason, or it becomes more trouble than it's worth, it's REAL easy to take up a DoW job in this game.

The term Supply and Demand is thrown around a lot when discussing the root of XIV economy. This game actually goes out of it's way to obscure the current supply situation from players . So only with 1/2 the equation for us to work with, guess what is inevitable?


Edited, Dec 15th 2010 4:02pm by Restyoneck
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#127 Dec 15 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah.... ***** whoever was saying this is a bad thing. Are you kidding? Easier search means quicker turn around, meaning more sales, and meaning the jackasses who overcharge are gonna have to scale down.
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#128 Dec 15 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I have looked all over and can not find any mention of when the maintenance is happening. Yes, I know it says 3:00 pm - 6:00 pm.....but no where does it mention what timezone that reflects...anyone know?
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#129 Dec 15 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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CeeVandross wrote:
Yeah.... ***** whoever was saying this is a bad thing. Are you kidding? Easier search means quicker turn around, meaning more sales, and meaning the jackasses who overcharge are gonna have to scale down.
Or, y'know, the people that charge average prices are going to have to start taking losses.
#130 Dec 15 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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if you check on the Lodestone with your timezone settings set to your timezone, the message it displays about the update will display the time the update will occur in your timezone, I checked some of the more official statements and the given PST works out to be 3-6pm EST, which is exactly what my lodestone message says
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#131 Dec 15 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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It won't let me log on right now, so I am assuming that the update is in progress. I really hope they add more cooking recipes. Also, GOBLINS.
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#132 Dec 15 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Looks like the "last 8 recipe" crafting tab got added

hellz yeah!
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#133 Dec 15 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Deila wrote:
CeeVandross wrote:
Yeah.... ***** whoever was saying this is a bad thing. Are you kidding? Easier search means quicker turn around, meaning more sales, and meaning the jackasses who overcharge are gonna have to scale down.
Or, y'know, the people that charge average prices are going to have to start taking losses.


Isn't that the point of being able to make higher quality gear as well? So you can set your wares apart from the standard and charge more?

I find it moronic that people are willing to lets the wards be the way they are because they fear undercutting. That's just plain dumb. Lets say the population grows and more crafters and retainers come into play.

No one's going to be able to find anything. In fact it's pretty freeking hard to find anything you might be looking for right now. The saturation of retainers and crafters will increase thus making it harder to navigate and find the "stores" that sell them

The other day I was looking for bronze mitts. I went to all three cities battle craft wards and search for hours did a shout in each town and in general near the blacksmiths guild. No luck.

Finally after later on a off chance looking through a players bazzar I found them.
It's not a very uncommon item. And I'm sure someone in the battle craft wards had a pair. It's just to **** hard to search every single person.

It's shouldn't take a day and a age to find rank 20 weapon or armor or whatever in the wards. Much less a rank 7 item. A search is needed plain and simple.
#134 Dec 15 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Have you ever been to a smallish town that now has a giant super walmart? Half the town has empty, abandoned commerical buildings that once used to be successful businesses. Walmart did nothing wrong, but that doesn't mean that it was good for the local economy. SE is taking a "spread the wealth" approach to implementing the economy - otherwise the RMT will end up tipping the balance sooner than later simply due to them being able to play for 24hours a day, and of course having motivation only to make gil - not have fun with other content.


Uh, no. Walmart is bad for local businesses, but only because it replaces the management positions of those local businesses with minimum wage employees, and that's where it saves a lot of its money. A hardware store, automotive store, sporting goods store, toy store, etc... all under one roof is more convenient for the customers and reduces the need for four managers who take most of those profits. So yes, Walmart hurts small towns in the way that it shuts down what are basically inefficient monopolies, but that help strengthen the middle class. It's not a win/win nor a lose/lose, and it's hard to say whether it does more harm or good. Right now, probably more harm.

However, none of that has anything to do with FFXIV whatsoever. In FFXIV, everybody is a free agent. No one is going to work for Wardmart because of a search function. No one is going to have their business shut down, or have to make cutbacks... this analogy is inappropriate in virtually every way.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#135 Dec 15 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Yay! Very good stuff!
And I am especially happy that I get a second retainer to put into the first ward!
This will double my chances of finally selling those stacks of marmot meat!

Edit: I KNEW it was worth hoarding all that meat!

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 6:36pm by Rinsui
#136 Dec 15 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Default
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Get your **** together and fix SP gain, SE

Rest of the game can wait
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#137 Dec 15 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
42 posts
Louiscool wrote:
Gopi wrote:
I for one am not looking forward to any search feature in the wards.

It will turn the wards into a penny war.

Everyone will have to list their items for sale a few gil lower then the other guys to be able to sell anything now that everything will be able to be seen all at once, and by the time you come back to see if anything sold, other players have undercut your sell price and yours did not sell since it was a higher price.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:47am by Gopi


[quote]I can translate this post for everyone:

"They're going to try to make a working economy? Boo on that, I was having fun overcharging people because there is no way to comparison shop."

EDIT:

I just finished reading the entire thread and every post you made makes me angrier. You WANT buyers to take MORE time to find an item so that they just get tired of searching and don't check prices and buy the first ripped hauby they see (yours) for 100k more than the avg price???

Forgive me if I'm not in favor of time sinks to fund your sh*tty activities. Undercutting, while it sucks sometimes, is how the WORLD economy works. Look at Walmart. They made an empire undercutting everything.

It's also how the poor people on "peopleatwalmart.com" get their condoms and big screen tvs.

I want my big screen tv but I can't afford to spend 6 hours in the market wards just to ensure I don't pay double the price.


Thank you for reading everything I posted, but your translation is wrong, since I do not overcharge anyone.

I only charge them what I paid for any mats I bought and a 10% on top of that for the price of me making it.

And if you are angry at someone who is simply posting to share their concerns in order to have a dialogue with other posters in order to understand if their concerns are going to happen, then I do not know how to fix this for you.

I am not going to stop trying to understand just because you decide to be angry when I try to understand.

Again, my concern is that I will not be able to sell things as fast as I used to or even at all (because I am being undercut so no one buys what I am selling at the time I was able to sell it), leaving me (and other players) waiting on our items to sell so we have the gil to spend on the items we previously were able to buy before (since others are undercutting me while I am not at my retainer, mine may not sell), even though now I am able to spend gil faster.(that I may or may not have depending on how many players undercut me while I was away from my retainer).

What is the point of being able to spend gil faster if your items are not selling, and you have no gil to spend?

Another poster pointed out that since we have leves to make gil with, that we will always have gil to spend when we need to buy items, even when our items are not selling due to being undercut while not at our retainers.

So I am going to trust this to be true and "wait and see" as they suggested.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 8:37pm by Gopi
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#138 Dec 15 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Again, my concern is that I will not be able to sell things as fast as I used to or even at all (because I am being undercut so no one buys what I am selling at the time I was able to sell it), leaving me (and other players) waiting on our items to sell so we have the gil to spend on the items we previously were able to buy before (since others are undercutting me while I am not at my retainer, mine may not sell), even though now I am able to spend gil faster.(that I may or may not have depending on how many players undercut me while I was away from my retainer).


As has already been explained, a search function will make players buy things more quickly, which will make them sell more quickly.

Assuming you have half a brain and aren't ripping people off, the only problem you should encounter with a search function is that your goods sell too quickly and you can't resupply fast enough.

There should be no question that a search feature will improve the game economy.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#139 Dec 15 2010 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Again, my concern is that I will not be able to sell things as fast as I used to or even at all (because I am being undercut so no one buys what I am selling at the time I was able to sell it), leaving me (and other players) waiting on our items to sell so we have the gil to spend on the items we previously were able to buy before (since others are undercutting me while I am not at my retainer, mine may not sell), even though now I am able to spend gil faster.(that I may or may not have depending on how many players undercut me while I was away from my retainer).


As has already been explained, a search function will make players buy things more quickly, which will make them sell more quickly.

Assuming you have half a brain and aren't ripping people off, the only problem you should encounter with a search function is that your goods sell too quickly and you can't resupply fast enough.

There should be no question that a search feature will improve the game economy.


Yes, they will sell more quickly, IF mine are not undercut at the time players are searching for them and IF the players who want to buy the items have already sold their items and is not waiting on their items to sell because of being undercut while away from their retainer they have had to relist items for sale 3 times in a row and has the gil to be able to buy.

For example: If you see mine for 1000g and see another player's for 500g, you are going to buy theirs - which means I am still waiting on my items to sell after relisting them lower and hope no one undercuts me again this time while I am away from my retainer before I can go buy the items that you are selling.

So, no, my buying is not going to speed up unless I was lucky and happened to not be undercut at the point in time that players were searching for what I was selling.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 11:03pm by Gopi
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#140 Dec 15 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

For example: If you see mine for 1000g and see another player's for 500g, you are going to buy theirs - which means I am still waiting on my items to sell after relisting them lower and hope no one undercuts me again this time while I am away from my retainer before I can go buy the items that you are selling.

So, no, my buying is not going to speed up unless I was lucky and happened to not be undercut at the point in time that players were searching for what I was selling.


Quote:
Assuming you have half a brain and aren't ripping people off


Watching the competition's prices and adjusting them accordingly is just a part of any decent economy. This wasn't even that serious of a problem in FFXI where you only had SEVEN AH slots to sell with. If you can't sell your goods fast enough with one or two retainers, then you simply have no business sense and SHOULD encounter problems in an artificial economy.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#141 Dec 15 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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OfMG the gear slot colors make such a big difference!

I can actually tell what's damaged gear!

Yayy.
#142 Dec 15 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
42 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:

For example: If you see mine for 1000g and see another player's for 500g, you are going to buy theirs - which means I am still waiting on my items to sell after relisting them lower and hope no one undercuts me again this time while I am away from my retainer before I can go buy the items that you are selling.

So, no, my buying is not going to speed up unless I was lucky and happened to not be undercut at the point in time that players were searching for what I was selling.


Quote:
Assuming you have half a brain and aren't ripping people off


I do not overcharge anyone.

I only charge what I paid for any mats I bought plus 10% of what I paid as the price of me crafting the item.



Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:52am by Gopi
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#143 Dec 15 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Again, my concern is that I will not be able to sell things as fast as I used to or even at all (because I am being undercut so no one buys what I am selling at the time I was able to sell it), leaving me (and other players) waiting on our items to sell so we have the gil to spend on the items we previously were able to buy before (since others are undercutting me while I am not at my retainer, mine may not sell), even though now I am able to spend gil faster.(that I may or may not have depending on how many players undercut me while I was away from my retainer).


As has already been explained, a search function will make players buy things more quickly, which will make them sell more quickly.

Assuming you have half a brain and aren't ripping people off, the only problem you should encounter with a search function is that your goods sell too quickly and you can't resupply fast enough.

There should be no question that a search feature will improve the game economy.


Yes, they will sell more quickly, IF mine are not undercut at the time players are searching for them and IF the players who want to buy the items have already sold their items and is not waiting on their items to sell because of being undercut while away from their retainer they have had to relist items for sale 3 times in a row and has the gil to be able to buy.

For example: If you see mine for 1000g and see another player's for 500g, you are going to buy theirs - which means I am still waiting on my items to sell after relisting them lower and hope no one undercuts me again this time while I am away from my retainer before I can go buy the items that you are selling.

So, no, my buying is not going to speed up unless I was lucky and happened to not be undercut at the point in time that players were searching for what I was selling.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 11:03pm by Gopi


Gopi what I'm getting from your posts is that you're focusing on you yourself not being able to sell stuff, and not really looking at the economy as a whole. I get that its frustrating that you cannot be online at all times to monitor prices, and people can undercut. However, prices fluctuate. Every undercut you see is a real adjustment to supply and demand, and affects the price. When there is 10 iron swords on the market, they are worth 10000 gil. when the 11th shows up, now they're worth 9500, or even 9999. People will win some and they will lose some. If you find you're losing more often than winning, I'd say you're probably not pricing competitively enough.
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#144 Dec 15 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
If you find you're losing more often than winning, I'd say you're probably not pricing competitively enough.


How do I know what to price competitively?

Either I charge what I paid for the materials plus 10% more for crafting the item, which is how the market wards currently work for me, or I undercut the price that everyone else is selling my item for and hope I get lucky and sell mine before mine is undercut which is how the market wards will work for me once a search feature is implemented.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:59am by Gopi
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#145 Dec 16 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
Quote:
If you find you're losing more often than winning, I'd say you're probably not pricing competitively enough.


How do I know what to price competitively?

Either I charge what I paid for the materials plus 10% more for crafting the item, which is how the market wards currently work for me, or I undercut the price that everyone else is selling my item for and hope I get lucky and sell mine before mine is undercut which is how the market wards will work for me once a search feature is implemented.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:59am by Gopi


I really don't know what to tell you at this point, other than I personally never had this problem. But I've always been fairly good at understanding how efficient markets work, and never believing that items had inherent values. I realize that I don't get to make a profit on something I'm selling if there are more sellers than more buyers.

This is currently a huge problem with this game, as its far more appealing to crafters than people who don't want to craft. For example you could see 50 blacksmiths trying to sell 400 brass spears to 100 potential lancers.

In the end, I really just feel that you're over thinking it. Even with a global search, or AH, or any centralized market, if you get out of the habit of pricing via materials+crafter fee, and begin pricing items based on their market value, even if they are undercut you'll still sell them in a reasonable time. It worked for me in FFXI when I priced items at last price history -2% (a Blind AH), and it worked in WoW when I put stuff up for 20, rather than 19.99 (a visible AH)
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#146 Dec 16 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I really just feel that you're over thinking it.


I hope so.

Thanks for trying to help me understand.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 1:31am by Gopi
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#147 Dec 16 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
How do I know what to price competitively?


Quote:
Watching the competition's prices and adjusting them accordingly


I was a renowned crafter on my server in XI-- late in the game's life, crafting became very difficult to profit off of because the markets were all saturated with normal quality items which normally sold for a loss, and the only way to turn a decent profit was to make a high quality item that was purely a matter of chance. To top that off, not everyone understand the chances of HQing an item and even those items that could net you a large profit if you HQ'ed on the first try would actually be a loss to make, statistically. e.g., if it costs 5,000 gil to try a synth, where NQ items sell for 1,000 gil but HQ items sell for 40,000 gil, but the chance of HQ is only 10% at best... then for every ten tries you will spend 50,000 gil and only come out with 49,000 gil worth of merchandise on average (not even counting failures). Since people didn't understand this, they would happily sell items for less than their actual worth.

Any crafter that wanted to continue to make money in this market had to constantly look for items that were profitable. It remains to be seen how durability will ultimately impact crafting in the economy, but even in this worst case scenario, I was able to make plenty of money crafting.

Certain markets, like very high demand items (things that are must-haves to play the game-- in XI, these were things like the popular foods, ninja tools, arrows, common crafting materials, etc.) will fluctuate quickly and will have to be watched more carefully than others. At some point they may bottom out and not be profitable to make-- then people will generally stop selling them (unless they are the least unprofitable thing to make where something is needed to skill up on). Then the price will go back up as suppliers (i.e., you) see that there is not enough supply and they can charge whatever they want.

This is just how business works, more or less.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#148 Dec 16 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Watching the competition's prices and adjusting them accordingly


I did in FFXI. I undercut whatever price that was on the AH for the item I was going to post in FFXI. Then when I came back to the game and checked if anything I posted had sold, it was simply a gamble (luck) if mine sold based on how many undercut me and how many were buying at the time mine were posted.

It was not fun waiting on things to sell and having to re-post all the time.

In FFXIV things sell the first game session I put them in my bazaar.

I do not have to worry about what to price them because I already know what I paid for the mats and I just add a crafting tax of 10% to what I paid for the mats and when I come back to look at my bazaar, everything is sold.

I have not had to play penny wars and continually re-post things in my bazaar after searching out everyone else's prices and wait through three or four game sessions for my items to sell.

They are sold by the next time I am able to log on (usually every other day or so).

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 2:25am by Gopi
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#149 Dec 16 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, but XI had a price history, which has not been confirmed as a feature yet.

People will undercut-- that's just good business. You just have to weigh the value of moving an item quickly versus the value of the actual item. In XIV you'll have plenty of storage if it's not a good time to sell something, and you'll be able to sell plenty of other items.

Ultimately, the current state of the wards encourages bad and lazy business practices.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#150 Dec 16 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Ultimately, the current state of the wards encourages bad and lazy business practices.


Erm... I have a job and work hard and make sure I meet many goals in real life but that is not fun.

I play FFXIV to have fun, and if it is like having a job and working hard in real life, then it becomes not fun and just another job.

Please, no offense to the players that find games that are another job to be fun!

We all have fun in different ways, I totally understand if playing a game as if it were a real life job is fun for others, but it is not for me.

Being able to be lazy in a game is a very fun break from working hard all day at my job in real life.

And yes, Window Shopping is fun for me! (browsing bazaars to see whats in them)

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 2:34am by Gopi
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#151 Dec 16 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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Gopi wrote:
Quote:
Ultimately, the current state of the wards encourages bad and lazy business practices.


Erm... I have a job and work hard and make sure I meet many goals in real life but that is not fun.

I play FFXIV to have fun, and if it is like having a job and working hard in real life, then it becomes not fun and just another job.

Please, no offense to the players that find games that are another job to be fun!

We all have fun in different ways, I totally understand if playing a game as if it were a real life job is fun for others, but it is not for me.

Being able to be lazy in a game is a very fun break from working hard all day at my job in real life.

And yes, Window Shopping is fun for me! (browsing bazaars to see whats in them)

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 2:34am by Gopi



I agree that when I log into XIV I'm playing a game not to mess around with inventory numbers.
Biggest source of money should be loot/crafting and gathering as those are actually fun to do.
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