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Your shield arm falls. *hangs self*Follow

#1 Dec 14 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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"Annoying"
Ok so , I love this game, despite the crap people are saying, but I finally have one nitpick,
and maybe I'm the only one for some reason, but if I'm carrying a shield is my character THAT incapable he can't keep his left arm raised to prevent a taru assassin from slicing his throat for over 13 seconds? Honestly this is the only annoyance thats major for me, it is making gladiator a tedious class but I'm still gonna stay GLA so whatever..... lol
Anyone else get annoyed or at least figured out some sort of system in macros? how do you guys get around this annoyance.
#2 Dec 14 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Feeling.
But I agree, there should be a visual indicator.
Just looking at your avatar doesn't tell you a thing during attack animations.
#3 Dec 14 2010 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree, SE isn't accustomed to strong European arms, and thus, do not realize how long one can hold a shield.

I mean, comon! I wear a buckler on mine and it falls in 10 seconds? Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, do away with the guard command! It is hard enough for normal folks, what about those with ADD huh?
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#4 Dec 14 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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Send this guy to train SE GLA developers
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Your failing the phalanx soldier, remove it from your list of abilities!!
#5 Dec 14 2010 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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The duration of your shield is dependent on wield rate. Shields with high wield rate have a low block% while shields with low wield rate have a high block%.

From lowest wield rate to highest:
Scutum < Pelta < Square Wooden < Metal Buckler < Targe < Round Wooden

I used to use a scutum that had a wield rate of 10. Even with self-preservation (the +50% shield duration passive from r20 gladiator), the shield would generally stay up for 10-15 seconds. When I switched to lantern shield (buckler type, wield rate 16) my shield would stay up for about 20-25 seconds.

If you are tired of raising your shield constantly, try switching to a different shield type. However, keep in mind that your block% goes down if you get a longer lasting shield so you will need to hit-confirm your phalanx.
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#6 Dec 14 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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The annoyance of keeping guard up is actually the reason for me not playing GLD in retail. PLD in FFXI was so much more enjoyable to play.
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#7 Dec 14 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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I tried to keep my shield arm up at first, but gave up. I use Aegis Boon and Outmaneuver when i can.
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#8 Dec 14 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Coming from FFXI, managing Guard might seem difficult at first. Coming from other games, it's not that big of a deal. You get used to a certain pacing and get a feel for when your shield is going to drop.
#9 Dec 14 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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I assume there is now way to remove the guard ability from your bar?
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#10 Dec 14 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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a reactive timer on the guard icon wouldn't hurt, nor would a visible icon in the icon bar saying guard is active. but i'm pretty used to raising guard as soon as it drops now, I don't think it impedes playing on gla.
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#11 Dec 14 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Self Preservation
Rank 30 Shield skill (Purchased at rank 20 once you have done your gladiator quest)

http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/self-preservation?id=29469
"Increases the length of your guard ability by 50%"

8000 Glad marks.



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 11:54am by DoctorMog
#12 Dec 14 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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DoctorMog wrote:
Self Preservation
Rank 30 Shield skill (Purchased at rank 20 once you have done your gladiator quest)

http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/self-preservation?id=29469
"Increases the length of your guard ability by 50%"

8000 Glad marks.



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 11:54am by DoctorMog


Very nice thanks for the info
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#13 Dec 14 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Did you find it annoying also in XI when you had to recast Utsusemi: Itchi/Ni all the time? Same principle really, and playing NIN was real fun. I actually like the guard feature. It's one of the things about GLA that keeps the job interesting.
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#14 Dec 14 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, I really enjoy having to raise my shield. It adds a little extra to connet me to the game. The timer is pretty short, yea but the best thing would be to give me a buff/icon or fix my character to actually drop his shield.

I can never see it drop in the text, and I still assume that I have it up
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#15 Dec 14 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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I don't mind that it falls, I just wish that it didn't take stamina, or basically stun-lock your character for 1-2 seconds every time you use it. If I'm doing leves in a group I either don't bother w/ shield because by the time I've got it up, I have lost hate, or else I use it before the battle starts which is also awful because I've now lost a good 3-5 seconds of my guard duration. I just wish it was instant cast w/ no durability. A guy can dream can't he? =P
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#16 Dec 14 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I just treat the shield like an attack... mash the button... so it hardly fails.

Does anyone know if rank 20 Sentinel has Quest?
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#17 Dec 14 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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DoctorMog wrote:
Self Preservation
Rank 30 Shield skill (Purchased at rank 20 once you have done your gladiator quest)

http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/self-preservation?id=29469
"Increases the length of your guard ability by 50%"

8000 Glad marks.



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 11:54am by DoctorMog


It sounds amazing but it's really not-- I have it and I barely notice a difference (yes, it's equipped). It's not a magic fix, trust me.
#18 Dec 14 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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"your shield arm falls" pops up in neon green in a second chat window on my screen. I always notice when it falls, not immediately but usually withing an attack or two.
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#19 Dec 14 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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jPuff wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Self Preservation
Rank 30 Shield skill (Purchased at rank 20 once you have done your gladiator quest)

http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/self-preservation?id=29469
"Increases the length of your guard ability by 50%"

8000 Glad marks.



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 11:54am by DoctorMog


It sounds amazing but it's really not-- I have it and I barely notice a difference (yes, it's equipped). It's not a magic fix, trust me.


It's pretty damned great, especially considering it increases the duration of aegis boon and outmaneuver. It also sees a bigger increase when you hit r30. Buying it at r20 is still almost necessary, but you do not see the full 50% increase until you hit r30 so perhaps that's why you don't notice much difference (especially if you are using something like bronze scutum which sits at only a 10s raised duration normally).
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#20 Dec 14 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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If you're lazing about killing random things bring a buckler with you so you haven't got to raise the thing constantly. Stop running around killing rabbits with a Scutum, it's overkill. Bring the Scutum for the Dragon.

A big heavy shield takes a lot of stamina to wield, perhaps I would've preferred all shields stay raised 30s but all have varying stamina costs, but then you'd run into (presumably, later on) GLA stacking haste for this reason.

Anyways, I don't see the big deal, it's less of a pain in the *** than Utsusemi, and if you enjoyed playing Paladin and didn't have to use Utsusemi, it's likely you never really did any hard content.
#21 Dec 14 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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RamseySylph wrote:

Anyways, I don't see the big deal, it's less of a pain in the *** than Utsusemi, and if you enjoyed playing Paladin and didn't have to use Utsusemi, it's likely you never really did any hard content.

Utsusemi was much less of a pain in the *** if you had a certain Windower plugin that counted your shadows. Console users were SOL, though. In any case, the major problem with guard is that, unlike Utsusemi, it interferes with your other actions, causing all kinds of delays.

As for using Utsu on PLD, no, I don't think I ever tanked anything as PLD/NIN. In fact, the necessity of that kind of joke job combos was perhaps my biggest gripe with the game. You know Utsu is pretty broken when even the biggest, baddest meat shield class would rather use it to avoid hits entirely than rely on its heavy armour and shields.


Edited, Dec 14th 2010 5:49pm by Omena
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#22 Dec 14 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Was it really that hard to count to 3 or 4? I changed my font for evaded attacks to bright red and had no trouble counting shadows. the windower plug-in was hardly a necessity.
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#23 Dec 14 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Omena wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:

Anyways, I don't see the big deal, it's less of a pain in the *** than Utsusemi, and if you enjoyed playing Paladin and didn't have to use Utsusemi, it's likely you never really did any hard content.

Utsusemi was much less of a pain in the *** if you had a certain Windower plugin that counted your shadows. Console users were SOL, though. In any case, the major problem with guard is that, unlike Utsusemi, it interferes with your other actions, causing all kinds of delays.

As for using Utsu on PLD, no, I don't think I ever tanked anything as PLD/NIN. In fact, the necessity of that kind of joke job combos was perhaps my biggest gripe with the game. You know Utsu is pretty broken when even the biggest, baddest meat shield class would rather use it to avoid hits entirely than rely on its heavy armour and shields.


Edited, Dec 14th 2010 5:49pm by Omena


You apparently stopped playing years ago.

Or just always did anything with an overkill amount of people.

Regardless, it (as the poster above stated) was not hard to count to 3 or 4, and that plugin was unnecessary. (I used windower but never the plugin, regardless that functionality should've been in the game for any stacking buffs.)

And excuse me? Since when did Utsusemi not get in the way of things? You can't attack/provoke/eat a hotdog while casting Utsusemi last I recall. You just feel like block is getting more in the way because there is no auto-attack, and you have the urge to mash more buttons, and you don't have the stamina to do so.

Sticking the ATB system into an MMO basically was an interesting idea, I can understand people coming from other cooldown based games feeling like GLA has a stamina issue, but from FFXI? I don't really get it, the pacing seems fine to me, there are a lot of things that bug me a lot more with GLA than shield raise recast. It'd be nice to get a visual indicator of abilities simply graying out when they aren't available, and lighting up when they are (Block, Phalanx etc) but I don't think the guard system is flawed at all.

Again, if you're farming stuff or killing weak mobs, go for a high wield rate attack+ shield, the idea that I may want to vary my equipment depending on what I am doing is actually a really attractive thing to me. Then again, I enjoyed Monster Hunter.
#24 Dec 14 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Default
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RamseySylph wrote:

You apparently stopped playing years ago.

I did. Every exp/merit PT was basically six people subbing NIN with no actual tank. Practically all end game was tanked by X/NIN. Even BRD/NIN was used because Mazurka built insane hate and nothing else mattered as you never got hit anyway.

Quote:

Regardless, it (as the poster above stated) was not hard to count to 3 or 4, and that plugin was unnecessary. (I used windower but never the plugin, regardless that functionality should've been in the game for any stacking buffs.)

No, but it was significant added convenience and should have been in the UI as you said.

Quote:

And excuse me? Since when did Utsusemi not get in the way of things? You can't attack/provoke/eat a hotdog while casting Utsusemi last I recall. You just feel like block is getting more in the way because there is no auto-attack, and you have the urge to mash more buttons, and you don't have the stamina to do so.

When you were casting Utsu, you rarely wanted to do anything else at the same time and it neatly cut into auto-attack without even restarting the delay. In XIV when shield drops during an animation you can't get it up right away and then it eats into your stamina. You also have to watch the combat log like a hawk to notice guard drop because there is no icon and the visual cues don't appear if there are other animations going on.

Finally, I've always hated having to keep up short duration buffs. When I briefly played WAR, I picked Black Orc. Too bad the entire class was based on stacking multiple 5-10 second do-nothing buffs and debuffs.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 6:27pm by Omena
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#25 Dec 14 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't play XI so I don't want to derail the good convo that's going on in comparing this to PLD, but I'm surprised we're not hearing from the contingent in these boards who claim this game is too easy.

On one hand, some say you can spam 1 ftw. Here, it's "why do I have to click guard every so often".

Of course, there's a spectrum, but I'm more partial to the current shield mechanic. Just because you have a shield on you doesn't mean you're using it or better yet blocking things with it. Rate up to the post that talks about wield rate. Rather than incessant complaints "feedback" about the game, why not use the mechanics to the advantage.

Rather than say "it's too easy" or "it's too hard", suggest a feasible mechanic.

In WoW for example, shield use is passive/proc, with cooldown abilities to raise the probability. If the action/stamina based combat system lives on, I see no other way to implement a proper shield use besides an active skill.

In fact, a more 'purist' sentinel approach would be similar to that in XIII, in my opinion. Make active shield wielding last far longer, boost defenses and enmity generation, and disable attacks. Have the sentinel be a real 'tank'.

Of course that approach wouldn't work solo or be unbearably boring (shield spike to give damage to physical attackers, reflect to give to magical, etc.), so the current system seems to work as intended.

Some other marginal fixes would be to be able to activate a 'reflect' or 'damage spike' on a cooldown timer with limited TP - allowing you to time enemy spellcasting or strong melee abilities. The combination of stamina, TP, and general game lag doesn't allow for that right now, however.
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#26 Dec 14 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe I'm just really good >.> It's easy to keep it raised. I like the fact that shield lowers, I like a challenge. It is fun and innovative.

p.s. utsusemi: ichi and ni were also easy, even without windower...

c'mon people... there has to be SOME features in the game that seperate the mediocre from the 1 step above mediocre players.
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#27 Dec 14 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
It'd be nice if they did away with the "raise shield" action and we had an active shield all the time.

if not at least like Quadruple the active time on all shields. make em last as long as a buff or something
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#28 Dec 14 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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BadJoRed wrote:
Maybe I'm just really good >.> It's easy to keep it raised. I like the fact that shield lowers, I like a challenge. It is fun and innovative.

p.s. utsusemi: ichi and ni were also easy, even without windower...

c'mon people... there has to be SOME features in the game that seperate the mediocre from the 1 step above mediocre players.

What exactly is so challenging about "keep it up at all times"? Your argument would make sense if you had to, say, react to something the enemy does, but no, you just keep it up as long as there is an enemy beating your face in. It's not hard, it's annoying and tedious.
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#29 Dec 14 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Default
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^ Why are you so critical on a job which you haven't ranked up to provoke let alone ever picked up a sword. Actually play GLA in a group setting in a battle that doesn't last for a laughable 30seconds with a full action bar of defensive skills with a mob able to take you out in 4 shots. With only a limited amount of stamina, you start to figure out that it isn't always about just keeping it up. It's stamina management and that's the fun and challenge I find in GLA.

And lol at that program that counted shadows. When did that come out? You guys were spoiled :)

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#30 Dec 14 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Omena wrote:
What exactly is so challenging about "keep it up at all times"? Your argument would make sense if you had to, say, react to something the enemy does, but no, you just keep it up as long as there is an enemy beating your face in. It's not hard, it's annoying and tedious.

To be fair, keeping it up all the time is a big fail, from my experience.

My current tanking spec has all 3 defensive abilities; shield, +evasion and +parrying and their 3 counters; phalanx, jarring strike (stun) and fracture (Disables WS).

I cannot parry and use the superior fracture when my shield is up as blocking takes precedence over parrying. This means that my guard button has to be my last line of defense. Putting it up actually slows down my kill speed and lowers my survival (parry from foresight = 0 damage, shield block lets some damage through)
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#31 Dec 14 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Putting it up actually slows down my kill speed and lowers my survival (parry from foresight = 0 damage, shield block lets some damage through)


Blocks from Aegis Boon take zero damage for the whole time your shield is up, and heals you. Also.. the amount of time Aegis boon lasts depends on the shield your using. If you for instance are using a buckler and have gotten the Gladiator trait to extend your shield time, you can be looking at a total of 25+ seconds of no damage. Also by the time that falls.. you use outmaneuver. so in total your shield will be down 5-10 seconds at most.
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#32 Dec 14 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Default
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Before party play was can-holed, I turned OFF A LOT of chat filters. Such as other pt members dmg, other people's beneficial status effects, missed attacks/evades, etc. I found this to be the best solution when playing GLD and checking for your fallen shield arm.

The scroll bar will be scrolling a lot less this way.

However, I think this "problem" is hardly one, SE has bigger fish to fry in this game right now.

Later
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#33 Dec 15 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Coming from FFXI, managing Guard might seem difficult at first. Coming from other games, it's not that big of a deal. You get used to a certain pacing and get a feel for when your shield is going to drop.


Although this is correct and I do agree with what you are saying, I still feel that raising a shield is an unnecessary task.

I find it strange how we can parry automatically without the need to "raise our weapon", so why can shield not automatically be raised into defensive position. It adds nothing to the gameplay but clearly detracts from it.

Also, anyone with a programmable keyboard can easily script / macro this to auto raise shield every x seconds for harder / longer fights

My biggest annoyance with shield arm failing is that it interupts running and movement, why should I stop running becuase I have lowered my arm!! I don't get it

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 2:32am by MisterGaribaldi
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#34 Dec 15 2010 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
Even BRD/NIN was used because Mazurka built insane hate and nothing else mattered as you never got hit anyway.


Didn't they patch this like... seven years ago? o_O

You played past NA beta, right? XD
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#35 Dec 15 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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MisterGaribaldi wrote:
My biggest annoyance with shield arm failing is that it interupts running and movement, why should I stop running becuase I have lowered my arm!! I don't get it]


Well I don't know who you run, but I can tell you how I do: with my arms staunchly motionless, straight, and at my sides.

Did I mention that I was frequently made fun of in P.E. class?
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#36 Dec 15 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Well I don't know who you run, but I can tell you how I do: with my arms staunchly motionless, straight, and at my sides.

Did I mention that I was frequently made fun of in P.E. class?


Hilarious... reminds me of ffxi if you were lagged and someone around you changed gear while running. they popped up on your screen motionless from the waist up.

Or if you started autorunning halfway through using a silent oil, how your arms moved out of sync with your legs.

good times.

As for lowered guard effecting movement, I can sort of share that frustration... it's never fun to be fighting a puk and watching him go all super saiyan only to see "your shield arm falls." while you hammer the strafe button praying you don't take a backflip to the face...
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#37 Dec 15 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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F3rth wrote:

Hilarious... reminds me of ffxi if you were lagged and someone around you changed gear while running. they popped up on your screen motionless from the waist up.


Haha, I had forgotten about that! Ah, good times. XD
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#38 Dec 15 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
I've thought from the start (which was closed Beta for me) that having to constantly use an ability to put up your shield was odd, let alone to have to do so as often as you do in this game. It's a lesser peeve of mine at the moment, but it is annoying. As far as how to deal with it, you begin to feel the rhythm of it, the same as you would with Provoke in FFXI. Of course, the negative effect of not provoking exactly every 30 seconds is not as bad as not having your shield up in XIV. I'm sure you could write a macro to execute that ability at a certain interval, with waits in between. That would make it a little better.

Edit: As far as the comparison with Utsusemi, at least you could recast that before the time was up. You can't do that with guard. Also, they did end up changing the Utsusemi icon to where it counted how many shadows you had left. It made a big difference, though I think more for DD's /nin than PLD's /nin. And, not every difficult mob was tanked PLD/NIN, even before the level increase. PLD/RDM and even PLD/DRK was useful for some of the major NMs. And there's probably other combos, I think PLD/BLU on occasion, if someone actually had BLU leveled high enough. It just all depended on what the biggest challenge was -- keeping hate or staying alive, and then whether the mob hits slow and hard or quickly but not so hard. The best PLDs had a range of subs and gear to adapt to what was needed and were not locked into anything.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 11:43am by LuthienOfSeraph
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#39 Dec 15 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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^ good post above. Pretty accurate. I liked going pld/nin, it was fun. I stopped playing about a month after the level 80 increase so I'm not 100% sure... but when they raised the cap to 85, I always presumed pld/war would have become obsolete. The age of pld/rdm would rule with their refresh in any situations that previously needed pld/war. (not sure if that happened)

@Omena - When I said I liked the fact that shield lowered, I liked a challenge, then you felt the need to quote me saying 'what is so challenging about it?'--- I'm sorry, let me rephrase that for you. "It is very easy, and I like it"
better?
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#40 Dec 15 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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personally I like the timed shield drop. It gives more of a balance of use. My only real problem with it is the amount of stamina it uses. While phalanx uses no stamina, and I can still hit full tp pretty quick solo, it can be a pain in the neck in a party when all emnity moves take so much stamina, and we are spending time getting our shield up to reduce damage... But it doesn't really matter, as right now every party I have been in has been a straight up zerg-fest. So any attempt to actually tank has either resulted in me dying, or me doing <10% of the overall party damage, and not holding hate for the full 10 seconds the mob is alive.

If they want to make it more balanced, they should allow for full block. That would at least give GLA a real position in a party. If we even had a 10% full block rate, we could tank seriously stronger mobs, and provide parties with exp that make long fights worth while.

Right now the game seems weighted towards damage over damage reduction. If damage reduction can reach a point of survivable, I think we could see some serious jumps in exp back to the old rates (400+ per mob), however, from what I have seen, mobs that give over 100 skill are significantly stronger than the exp/skill curve on them.

Here's hoping they fix that in the update^^
#41 Dec 15 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
personally I like the timed shield drop. It gives more of a balance of use. My only real problem with it is the amount of stamina it uses. While phalanx uses no stamina, and I can still hit full tp pretty quick solo, it can be a pain in the neck in a party when all emnity moves take so much stamina, and we are spending time getting our shield up to reduce damage... But it doesn't really matter, as right now every party I have been in has been a straight up zerg-fest. So any attempt to actually tank has either resulted in me dying, or me doing <10% of the overall party damage, and not holding hate for the full 10 seconds the mob is alive.

If they want to make it more balanced, they should allow for full block. That would at least give GLA a real position in a party. If we even had a 10% full block rate, we could tank seriously stronger mobs, and provide parties with exp that make long fights worth while.

Right now the game seems weighted towards damage over damage reduction. If damage reduction can reach a point of survivable, I think we could see some serious jumps in exp back to the old rates (400+ per mob), however, from what I have seen, mobs that give over 100 skill are significantly stronger than the exp/skill curve on them.

Here's hoping they fix that in the update^^


We already can full block. It depends on how high ranked your shield is. As 21GLA/12SEN I would only ever partially block. But when I switched to 10CON/12SEN I would often get a full block and take zero damage. After I finish getting THM to 20 I can't wait to see what 21GLA/26SEN will be like.

Another thing I haven't seen anyone mention. When you have guard up you block with both your shield AND your sword. It was more noticable before the 11/25 update when you coul see exactly when you got your SP. I'd often block and get 'Sword skill increase...'. After a few times I started to watch the animations and you even raise your sword to block the incoming hit.

ps posting from an iPhone sucks
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Ashlar Calidan, Paladin of Unicorn
Ashlar Korith, Gladiator of Trabia
"If by my death your life might be spared, then so be it."
#42 Dec 15 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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513 posts
xLuxVeritas wrote:
^ Why are you so critical on a job which you haven't ranked up to provoke let alone ever picked up a sword. Actually play GLA in a group setting in a battle that doesn't last for a laughable 30seconds with a full action bar of defensive skills with a mob able to take you out in 4 shots. With only a limited amount of stamina, you start to figure out that it isn't always about just keeping it up. It's stamina management and that's the fun and challenge I find in GLA.

I played GLD in closed beta hoping it would be fun like PLD/WAR in FFXI. Turns out the shield mechanic made it feel very slow and clunky.

Quote:

And lol at that program that counted shadows. When did that come out? You guys were spoiled :)

I'm pretty sure shadow counters were among the first plugins made for the Windower.
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