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FFXIV nominated for "Most Disappointing game"Follow

#52 Dec 15 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
AkumaOokami wrote:
The only reason XIV got worst game played and most disappointing etc... was because Tron was SO bad that no one even bothered to play it.

Had anyone actually purchased the Tron game, XIV would have been runner up.


Well to be disappointing, people had to expect it to be good.


Oh look. Top of second page. SINCE I HAVE EVERYONE'S ATTENTION! I'd better write a little more!

Final Fantasy XIV easily wins this award to me, not because it's so much worse than any other game, but because I and so many people had such high hopes for it. That's what makes it disappoint.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 3:21pm by digitalcraft
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#53 Dec 15 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it me or does the incessant bashing of FFXIV get more and more boring every day? This isn't directed at the OP of course, but just in general.


Agreed. In my opinion many, many annoying things have been fixed since release and it only gets better every day. Shame to all those who threw in the towel early.
#54 Dec 15 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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There's nothing more gamewise that I want then to love FFXIV. But this nomination is deserved. Partly because we all were hoping for a worthy follow up on 11 that squeenix profesionally killed in my opinion and this isn't it. If a unknown little software house would have made this it wouldn't be bad.

But come on !! Square enix made of me alone about a $1000 in 5 years. And then they make a new game with these bugs ? Every single time I use my macro to switch to armorer the game crashes... It's the exact same macro then my jobchange for every other single job I have besides the tools ofcourse. Tried it in 3 different macro slots, copied working macro's from other jobs only changing tools.. COME ON !!
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#55 Dec 15 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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They put Final Fantasy XIII as best RPG? Really? You just walk in a line the whole time!


Eh, I doubt it will win best RPG, but it's not really that bad of a game.

FFXIII was certainly not what a lot of people hoped it would be, but its a solid game in its own way. The game is of course beautiful, the characters and world really come to life, and the gameplay is engaging enough (at least if you don't have it on auto all the time). Personally I think it was a slight improvement over FFXII. Both games have very different strengths and weaknesses (in some ways they are total opposites) and as such appeal to different kinds of players.

Personally I didn't mind the linearity of FFXIII. Saved me a lot of trips to GamdFAQs to make sure that I didn't miss anything, which made sure that I didn't have to worry about stumbling on spoilers.
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#56 Dec 15 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Nokturnal wrote:
I'm just glad they had the open beta, it's the reason I voted for Worst Game Everyone's played.

Playing the open beta lead me to cancel my pre-order and play something else. Yea so i hear it's free now? Well there's acouple other free online games I can play that are a lot more polished. League of Legends and Lotro anyone?

As they say in hollywood, the only bad publicity is no publicity. So hopefully these reviews will encourage the FFXIV team to get off their asses and fix everything wrong with this mmo, but like i said earlier, it's gonna take them at least a year or 2 before this game stops being horrible, just about every single aspect of the game needs improvement.


You havent played it since Beta, so your opinion is essentially worthless. Haven't you kept up with what's going on? If you had, you would have realised that they have already got "off their asses".

Some of you people just like to see yourselves post. It's just whining for the sake of whining.
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#57 Dec 15 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
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They put Final Fantasy XIII as best RPG? Really? You just walk in a line the whole time!


Eh, I doubt it will win best RPG, but it's not really that bad of a game.

FFXIII was certainly not what a lot of people hoped it would be, but its a solid game in its own way. The game is of course beautiful, the characters and world really come to life, and the gameplay is engaging enough (at least if you don't have it on auto all the time). Personally I think it was a slight improvement over FFXII. Both games have very different strengths and weaknesses (in some ways they are total opposites) and as such appeal to different kinds of players.

Personally I didn't mind the linearity of FFXIII. Saved me a lot of trips to GamdFAQs to make sure that I didn't miss anything, which made sure that I didn't have to worry about stumbling on spoilers.


FFXIII is great if you enjoy linear games with absolutely no depth.

I find it hilarious that FFXIV has been condemned, yet FFXIII is getting nominated for awards. It just proves that people are sheep. They believe what the media tells them, whether or not they have even played the game.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 6:45pm by Clydey2Times
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#58 Dec 15 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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FFXIII is great if you enjoy linear games with absolutely no depth.


Depends on your definition of depth.

The characters themselves have depth to them, the story is good enough and brings to light some deep issues.

But if you were expecting truckloads of playability, then no, sadly it's a bit shallow in that department.

I happened to like the way the combat system worked out in the end. It pulled the player away from the micromanagement that most RPGs now trope around, and focused more on the high-minded aspect of directing combat in a general sense. I liked the change.

I did not like the linearity or the fact that there was only one zone to really explore, or the restrictions on member role usage until you got to the post-game. But by no mean was it a 'bad' game. It was well polished, ran well, it had a bold retake on aged systems and played out a good story, even if the game was essentially on rails.

Pair that off that there weren't really that many high production RPGs this year, and of course they'd make nomination.

FFXIV had several, SEVERAL more problems with it in comparison.
#59 Dec 15 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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Star Wars FU2 was definitely the most disappointing game of the year.
What a giant piece of trash compared to FU1 even.

I'd say FFXIV's release state was more disappointing than Fable 3, though. Only marginally.
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#60 Dec 15 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
As a long time FFXI player I expected something with a bit more out of FFXIV. I do like that they quickly recognized the issues and are working on getting things in order. I've been playing the FF series since FF1 and will definitely stick with this to see what they come up with.

As far as most disappointing...yea so far I can see that....but I do foresee a comeback of the year next time the vote goes out!
#61 Dec 15 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
But if you were expecting truckloads of playability, then no, sadly it's a bit shallow in that department.


What is it really saying about FFXIII that your post IN DEFENSE OF the game outright admits that it lacks playability? I mean, I'm not sure how you're defining "playability" besides "The ability to play the game", but if a game is lacking that, that's a pretty dead ringer for a bad game.

By that definition, I agree that it lacks playability. As in, after about 2-3 hours in, I didn't want to play it anymore and after 5 hours I simply couldn't force myself to do so any longer.

I have played every single final fantasy title to date including the Adventure/Legacy titles, Tactics/TA, and even Mystic Quest, and I have to say that FF13 was the first FF game that made me not want to play it at all. And I was feeling like that less than 5 hours in.

I reserved the game the day it was announced. I was there at midnight release. I bought the hardback strategy guide. I popped that game in with giddy enthusiasm. Less than two hours later, I was sick of the game. No other Final Fantasy title before it has left me feeling that way.

I mean, I'm not playing FFXIV much either because every time I walk into the market wards, I end up ragelogging, but at least FFXIV has the potential that it's going to get better.

I have a number of complaints about FFXIII and the one thing they have in common is that unlike FFXIV, there's no chance of a patch ever fixing them.

Say what you will about 14, but 13 tops my list for "Most disappointing game". The only compliment I could possibly give that game was that it had good graphics. And in terms of "Reasons to play a game", graphics are not even close to the top of my list.

If I wanted the experience of FFXIII, I'd rent a movie and periodically pause it to mash X on my controller.

But then, considering that nine out of ten game reviews mention the graphics in the first paragraph and touches on the gameplay itself later on, perhaps I'm part of a dying breed of gamers who thinks that engaging, enjoyable content and the ability to play the game without feeling like I'm punishing myself for something are more important than how many polygons my characters tits are made of.
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#62 Dec 15 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Most Disappointing Game should be a lock for this one. Honestly, when I played the Beta, I was like "Well if they just polish this game up, add some information inside the game, and some wicked cutscenes, this game will be ******* amazing!" Then I opened and installed the retail... and I was back in beta.

Muh?

The game has a LOOOOONG way to even reach mediocre status. There is so much that needs to be addressed.

But worst game? Even I'd not go that far, there's been some pretty ****** games this year. But, then, if they get a big enough black eye from this, maybe SE will lea-

Oh who the **** am I kidding, SE will learn **** from this ; ;
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#63 Dec 15 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
What is it really saying about FFXIII that your post IN DEFENSE OF the game outright admits that it lacks playability? I mean, I'm not sure how you're defining "playability" besides "The ability to play the game", but if a game is lacking that, that's a pretty dead ringer for a bad game.

By that definition, I agree that it lacks playability. As in, after about 2-3 hours in, I didn't want to play it anymore and after 5 hours I simply couldn't force myself to do so any longer.


Doesn't lack playability... lacks "loads" of playability, which is fine for a single player game, really. Objectively, the gameplay is far from bad, and at times is downright intense. Just don't use Auto-battle. The problem is not that the gameplay is bad, but that they hold your hand in the beginning. Kind of an understandable decision given that they were introducing something new and as with any FF, wanted to make it welcoming to newcomers to the series/genre.

Now, they definitely should have provided a more challenging and engaging option for the early game, but there were a lot of people who wrote off the game without ever getting to the point that it becomes good. Admittedly, if you're an experienced gamer, that part of the game comes pretty late (too late for many). For me it was probably 12-15 hours in, but I was pokey about it too.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Dec 15 2010 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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It's necessary for developers to get a good kick in the nuts to humble them. They'll bounce back, if not someone else will supplant them, it's the nature of things. Survival of the fittest.
#65 Dec 15 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
What is it really saying about FFXIII that your post IN DEFENSE OF the game outright admits that it lacks playability? I mean, I'm not sure how you're defining "playability" besides "The ability to play the game", but if a game is lacking that, that's a pretty dead ringer for a bad game.

By that definition, I agree that it lacks playability. As in, after about 2-3 hours in, I didn't want to play it anymore and after 5 hours I simply couldn't force myself to do so any longer.


Doesn't lack playability... lacks "loads" of playability, which is fine for a single player game, really. Objectively, the gameplay is far from bad, and at times is downright intense. Just don't use Auto-battle. The problem is not that the gameplay is bad, but that they hold your hand in the beginning. Kind of an understandable decision given that they were introducing something new and as with any FF, wanted to make it welcoming to newcomers to the series/genre.

Now, they definitely should have provided a more challenging and engaging option for the early game, but there were a lot of people who wrote off the game without ever getting to the point that it becomes good. Admittedly, if you're an experienced gamer, that part of the game comes pretty late (too late for many). For me it was probably 12-15 hours in, but I was pokey about it too.


See, I'm still not agreeing with any of this.

For one, I don't care if it's a single player game or a multiplayer game; if the game is not designed in such a way that makes me WANT to play it, it's a bad game. I mean, I'm not trying to hate on the game solely for the sake of hating, but I honestly can not think of an aspect of the gameplay I liked. I didn't like that the level up system was tied into story and limited you based on progress. I didn't like that you had to chain your attacks in succession to build up to a point where you were actually dealing respectable damage. I didn't like the fact that I was essentially running in one long tunnel and it felt less like I was playing the game so much as I was just "along for the ride".

Compare to the game's immediate predecessor, FF12. I wasn't limited to how much XP or LP I could gain based on my story progress, I wasn't limited to how I could develop my characters. Not only was the battle speed much more even paced, but I could even equip my characters with whatever weapon I wanted.

Now that last part I'm not harping on too much, because FF4, 5, 6, 7, 8... have all had in common that your character had one, maybe two weapon types they could use, so that's a minor point. My point is, in any other FF game, it felt like I was playing the game and experiencing the story. In FF13, it felt like I was watching the game play itself. Perhaps it was just the overload of way too many cutscenes, perhaps the fact that they were trying to pack way to many characters into the beginning of the game rather than introducing you to them gradually, perhaps the battle speed was too fast paced... I can't put my finger on it, but I really can not think of anything about the game that was fun to me, I'm sorry.

I'm not saying that other people didn't enjoy it; I'm sure they did. I'm not saying that the game couldn't appeal to anyone, I'm sure it could. But in my eyes, it was by far my least favorite FF game.

You even state at the end that for you, and you said you enjoyed the game, it didn't get fun until 12-15 hours in, and even then you weren't thrilled. I just think that's unacceptable.

A game should draw you in from the start. Wow me. Give me a reason to play. The first few hours of a game should impress the **** out of me and make me WANT to play.

FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, 8, 9, even 10 which I wasn't too thrilled about... all of the other titles before it, and nearly any other game I've played that I've loved have had one thing in common: The crack factor. That feeling that you don't want to turn the game off. That feeling that as soon as you lay down in bed (at 5 AM), the foremost thing in your mind is getting back home from work (or school or whatever) and you want to turn it back on and pick up where you left off.

A game needs that feeling right at the start. Not 10+ hours in.

FFXIV's launch is turning out much like FF13's story... it may very well get better later on, and I'm confident that it can... but many people started it and already made up their mind that they aren't willing to suffer through the boring parts to get to the meat of the game.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that I'm bailing on 14; I'm still sticking it out with 14 in the hopes that it will improve.

But when it comes to 13, There is just nothing, short of someone else playing the game for me or giving me a save file that was past the "boring stuff", that could convince me to give the game another try.

And that ****** me the **** off, because I really really wanted to like it. Again, not unlike FF14.
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#66 Dec 15 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
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Wow i'm actually not sure if this game deserves worst game of the year <.< i think FFXIII deserves that ******* and FFXIV alteast runner up or 3rd place(SWFU2 Deserves second place if anything)

I understand FFXIII Sold great, but i bet a lot of people like me, bough it because it was FFXIII! And then they where like WTF is this <.<

Btw: FFXII >> FFXIII anyday on any level :)
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#67 Dec 15 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ooooh a thread derail regarding FFXIII!

I absolutely hated this game! In part because I just played Mass Effect 2 prior, and the storytelling in FFXIII (not CGI) and characters were trite, cliche and shallow. Whereas in ME2 where I felt like I was absorbed in a universe and the dialog wasn't offensive drivel. I was surprised because the dialog in FFXII was great and I didn't feel like I was 12 years old reading it or listening to the cut scenes. FFXIII was one of the very few games I felt embarrassed to play in front of people.

On it's own FFXIII was terrible, but not as bad as I initially thought. Instead of a 2 or 3 out of 10, it's more like a 4 or 5.

The graphics were great, UI was great, music was good until the chocobo theme. Summons were stupid and of course the game was linear. Gran Steppe was cool until I got steamrolled by a Behemoth.

Final Fantasies to me include mini games, or at the very least does things differently sporadically throughout the game. The little strategy mini game in FFVI, or the Opera scene really make the game. There was none of that in FFXIII. I remember the court scene from Chrono Trigger (not FF I know), because I've never seen it before, it was novel, magical.

And Towns? Yeah, yeah it doesn't fit in with what SE was trying to do. You're supposed to be on the run, you say? Whatever. I'm pretty sure the linear nature was a hardware limitation for the Xbox. Also FFXIV doesn't really have towns with quest NPCs? Trend?

Like someone else said, it absolutely boggles my mind how XIII got a pass but FFXVI didn't.

FFXIV's saving grace is that it will get better over time. XIII will still be a pile of rubbish.

#68 Dec 15 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Clydey2Times wrote:


FFXIII is great if you enjoy linear games with absolutely no depth.



Oof! Punch to the gut!

There is no debating that 13 is linear. The developers themselves had admitted as much. Your comment about 13 lacking depth, however, is not one I can agree with. And actually, I am very curious why you think this. (Or why anyone does, for that matter).

I think 13 may be one of the deepest games in the series. The central issue of segregation—borderline Apartheid—was a strong and refreshing, dramatic breath among video games. I have played most all Final Fantasies, save for a few, and to memory none of them have dealt with a topic quite as... heavy. (Or presented as heavily may be a better way to put it.)

But I'm an artistic type so even if there aren't layers, I'll find layers. I am interested in hearing what others thought about the plot of 13.
#69 Dec 15 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, the reality of XIII is that it was received very similarly to (and probably even slightly better than) XII by players. It's a more polarizing game than XII was... personally I didn't care for XII at all-- I really didn't feel that anything was done particularly well, except for creating good environments and graphics (which XIII does as well or better, imo). I've articulated in the past the many reasons why XII, to me, was a major disappointment. By comparison, I found XIII to be better than XII in almost every regard (except for player freedom.) And despite the more vocal protests of XIII, that's not an unpopular opinion.

The main reason I stopped playing XIII was because I no longer had access to my file. It was slow to start for the reasons I mentioned earlier-- the game holds your hand like it's your very first game in the beginning. And if it was one of your first RPGs, you probably thought it was amazing compared to those with preconceived expectations of the FF franchise.

Quote:
Compare to the game's immediate predecessor, FF12. I wasn't limited to how much XP or LP I could gain based on my story progress, I wasn't limited to how I could develop my characters. Not only was the battle speed much more even paced, but I could even equip my characters with whatever weapon I wanted.


See, my view is that the XP cap helps balance the game and prevents overleveling, which helps maintain challenge (something you almost had to impose on yourself in XII). I didn't like the development process for characters in XII-- all characters were essentially the same (except that Fran and Balthier were actually worse with their innate weapons, wtf). Most of the abilities were useless and most battles could be easily reduced to the same strategy. Above all, I hated the combat. And those are only my criticisms in regards to what you consider strengths.

And XIII did draw me in right from the start. But it definitely is too simple for most of the early game for veteran gamers, especially if they don't turn off the Auto-battle feature.

Now, XIV may be improved at some point, but to me, even with the game's current fixes, it is still a 5/10 at best, and will likely continue to be until next year. When that genre has 7's that you can play for free, that is just totally unacceptable. I can't give it a pass on the grounds that maybe it'll be better someday. "Most disappointing" is a fair title for a game that promised so much more than it delivered.

Conversely, XIII is just not for everyone. I don't like WoW, COD, Modern Warfare, Left 4 Dead, etc. at all. That doesn't make them bad games. They're just not at all what I look for in a game.

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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#70 Dec 15 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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KPBeta wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:


FFXIII is great if you enjoy linear games with absolutely no depth.



Oof! Punch to the gut!

There is no debating that 13 is linear. The developers themselves had admitted as much. Your comment about 13 lacking depth, however, is not one I can agree with. And actually, I am very curious why you think this. (Or why anyone does, for that matter).




I couldn't tell you how the story went because it's sitting back on Gamestops's shelves...But I'll try anyway... The game needs to be well rounded and deep in both gameplay and story. The story might have been the best thing since sliced bread, but I had to suffer through the horrible gameplay and that fingernails on chalkboard Vanille.

****, I could even give you 10 pages with a Feminist, Marxist, Postmodern or Existentialist slant on any or most games, but it doesn't make the game any better; The Brothers Karamazov may be one of the greatest novels ever written but if I had to listen to Marylin Monroe read it aloud I probably wouldn't think it so great. Eh.

Plus I'll see your FFXIII and raise you Mass Effect 2. It deals with issues of segregation as well as the issue of rape and PTSD with Jack.

ME is (currently) just a far superior series.


Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:40am by Kierk
#71 Dec 15 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
KPBeta wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:


FFXIII is great if you enjoy linear games with absolutely no depth.



Oof! Punch to the gut!

There is no debating that 13 is linear. The developers themselves had admitted as much. Your comment about 13 lacking depth, however, is not one I can agree with. And actually, I am very curious why you think this. (Or why anyone does, for that matter).




I couldn't tell you how the story went because it's sitting back on Gamestops's shelves...But I'll try anyway... The game needs to be well rounded and deep in both gameplay and story. The story might have been the best thing since sliced bread, but I had to suffer through the horrible gameplay and that fingernails on chalkboard Vanille.

****, I could even give you 10 pages with a Feminist, Marxist, Postmodern or Existentialist slant on any or most games, but it doesn't make the game any better; The Brothers Karamazov may be one of the greatest novels ever written but if I had to listen to Marylin Monroe read it aloud I probably wouldn't think it so great. Eh.

Plus I'll see your FFXIII and raise you Mass Effect 2. It deals with issues of segregation as well as the issue of rape and PTSD with Jack.

ME is (currently) just a far superior series.


Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:40am by Kierk


Thanks for the recc., I'll check it out.

EDIT: I was referring to ME. I will definitely check out the Brothers. I just wiki'ed it and every other line basically equates to "best novel ever written."
(Although on that note you haven't read Ulysses, have you?)

One more thing worth adding on my end is that I think every game's style is important in how its plot is shaped. You bring up the Mass Effect character's affliction of PTSD. Could we have that in XIII?

Could we have that in XIV? Would something that "resembles" the RL condition do it justice? Just more rhetorical questions. My point is that we can only set the bar so high for genres which base themselves in a strictly fantasy world that clearly, proudly separates itself from reality.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:52am by KPBeta
#72 Dec 15 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Good
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13 was linear yeah, but so are most games even if they pretend their not (looking at you mass effect), but i guess if you can skip content that sort of counts as letting you do whatever you want.

what disappointed me was how linear the progression was. guys had 3 real "trees", but you got abilities pretty much in the order they wanted you to, very few branches and road blocks to stop you from ignoring other roles (sounds a bit like fatigue actually).

I really liked the class switching in combat though, when I felt I wasn't being told how to beat a boss due to set party lineups, and mobs being super weak to certain effects that you just happened to have in your group.

I actually can't really think of anything bad about FFXIII, but I can't think of anything good either. Doesn't really deserved to be on anyone's best or worst lists.
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#73 Dec 16 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I couldn't tell you how the story went because it's sitting back on Gamestops's shelves...But I'll try anyway... The game needs to be well rounded and deep in both gameplay and story. The story might have been the best thing since sliced bread, but I had to suffer through the horrible gameplay and that fingernails on chalkboard Vanille.

****, I could even give you 10 pages with a Feminist, Marxist, Postmodern or Existentialist slant on any or most games, but it doesn't make the game any better; The Brothers Karamazov may be one of the greatest novels ever written but if I had to listen to Marylin Monroe read it aloud I probably wouldn't think it so great. Eh.

Plus I'll see your FFXIII and raise you Mass Effect 2. It deals with issues of segregation as well as the issue of rape and PTSD with Jack.

ME is (currently) just a far superior series.


What was wrong with Vanille's voice? On that note, how can you be bothered by one character's VA, but not by the mannequin-like characters of ME?

We'll just have to disagree about the gameplay. It was too slow getting off the ground, I'll give you that, but the gameplay as an entity was nothing to complain about.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#74 Dec 16 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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KPBeta wrote:

Thanks for the recc., I'll check it out.

EDIT: I was referring to ME. I will definitely check out the Brothers. I just wiki'ed it and every other line basically equates to "best novel ever written."
(Although on that note you haven't read Ulysses, have you?)

One more thing worth adding on my end is that I think every game's style is important in how its plot is shaped. You bring up the Mass Effect character's affliction of PTSD. Could we have that in XIII?

Could we have that in XIV? Would something that "resembles" the RL condition do it justice? Just more rhetorical questions. My point is that we can only set the bar so high for genres which base themselves in a strictly fantasy world that clearly, proudly separates itself from reality.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 12:52am by KPBeta


I've only read Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, and only the first chapter of Ulysses (I'll have to go back and read it again)

I think you most definitely can have 'real' themes in fantasy worlds and vice versa, just look at the "magical realism" aesthetic in literature. I think games can touch on very important themes and make them relateable to our condition. It's just that these sorts of games are few and far between (and for the most part, aesthetically speaking, they don't exist)

I don't know if FFXIV or other Final Fantasies need to be 'literary' or deep or even contain 'adult themes,' (most people just want to PLAY; and that's fine) but I do hope that some games in the future (the medium as a whole) will on some level try to do this. However relatively speaking we have a long way to go until 'games' mature. It's taken other art forms hundreds of years to shape their aesthetic and it will take video games at least that long.
#75 Dec 16 2010 at 1:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:


What was wrong with Vanille's voice? On that note, how can you be bothered by one character's VA, but not by the mannequin-like characters of ME?

We'll just have to disagree about the gameplay. It was too slow getting off the ground, I'll give you that, but the gameplay as an entity was nothing to complain about.



Not only was Vanille's voice annoying (high pitched, whiny, and she also made those weird grunts and giggles) but her character was either very very poorly translated or just clunky. There were times when she was talking to Hope and it was a really sad scene where I think Hope's mom just died, and here Vanille is jumping up and down like a dolt like nothing happened.

Now you could justify it by saying that's the style; it's being really JRPG. But to me it was tired and cliche, and really brought the other character's down. Lightning was the best VA and Fang was a close second in terms of the VA, but the other characters for me were just too stereotypical.

As I stated in another thread FFXII didn't make me wince at the characters and dialog, and I just assumed that SE wouldn't go in a super JRPG direction with XIII, but they did. I wasn't a fan of VIII either.

As far as ME's voices are concerned, yeah some aren't animated, but for the most part they are all really solid. Plus the dialog, albeit at times can be cheezy, is also pretty solid.

One game enveloped me in a world; the other one made me reach for the receipt.
#76 Dec 16 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the title of the award and the fact the game is likely to win it both highly appropriate.

FFXI was an amazing experience for me, it was not my first MMO by a long shot; but I find challanging and engaging MMO appealing. The storylines had you hooked and kept you wanting more. Everything you achieved actually felt like an achievment as you probably had to work so hard to get it

Levelling was a pain in the ****, until you knew how it worked. You didn't have to party for example, Black Mages and certain other jobs could level on Beast master mobs pets and could solo to 75 long before FOV were introduced.

I followed the development of FFXIV passionately from the first teaser trailer that appeared circa 2006 iirc, through to every snippet of info that was leaked / rumoured.

Then beta arrived......OK it's beta maybe things will be different at release......oh dear, they are not :(

That's ok though, things will get better let's just grind away then and get the job im interested in capped. Woot Eft parties things going well am on the right track levelling wise, SP nerf - oh crap now I cannot level at all post 30.

Not only is the game the most disappointing I have played this year, it just continues to deliver the punches as well.

Will it be a great game? It is fast approaching "Who Cares" with me, as by the time it has I may have moved onto something bigger and better.

After all the development time and the fantastic experience I had with FFXI I was expecting so much. What we got was a huge disappointment - such an apt reward I feel.
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#77 Dec 16 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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As I stated in another thread FFXII didn't make me wince at the characters and dialog, and I just assumed that SE wouldn't go in a super JRPG direction with XIII, but they did. I wasn't a fan of VIII either.

As far as ME's voices are concerned, yeah some aren't animated, but for the most part they are all really solid. Plus the dialog, albeit at times can be cheezy, is also pretty solid.


Vanille's voice didn't bother me at all. As for her personality, I haven't played far enough to confirm my suspicions, but I interpret it as more or less appropriate. I couldn't really say that it's cliche, as I can't think of any other characters that act that way (coming from someone who has played many RPG and seen many anime). Over the top, perhaps, but fantasy can afford to be over the top in my book.

Also, there were lots of complaints about the VA in XII. In particular, people complained about Fran, Vaan, and Penelo. There was also that annoying tendency for the VA and the subtitles to not match up.

I wasn't actually talking about the lack of voice animation in ME, just the general uncanny valley-ness of the characters. It bothers me to look at the characters moving around and talking, probably in the same way that a character like Vanille bothers you. Only it's nearly every character. I'm not generally put off by graphics, but when you're going for a realistic art style, you should actually be able to pull it off imo. Few things are more unsettling to me than a failed attempt at human realism (i.e., the uncanny valley).
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

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#78 Dec 16 2010 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
That means in a year from now it will be eligible for "GREATEST COMEBACK EVER!"


Thayos wrote:
All this negativity -- even as the game gets bettersi -- could actually work to solidify the ffxiv playerbase with an "us against the world" mentality. FFXI had the same thing going for it.


Who surgically implanted your rose-colored lenses?
#79 Dec 16 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Vedis wrote:
just a reminder, Aion won the "worst" catagories hands down across the board last year
they obviously dont affect how people care about the games they are playing


Can you post your source on "Aion"? Have you checked Metacritic, 76 out of 100 with 42 critical reviews and only one negative?
#80 Dec 16 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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Cataclysm at the moment is extremely fun. SE can go F themselves.
#81 Dec 16 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
That means in a year from now it will be eligible for "GREATEST COMEBACK EVER!"


Fingers crossed :)

SE have made it clear XIV is something they not only want fixed but they want it BIG Time to work well.

Personally STO (star trek online) should also be nominated for disappointments because that suffered same thing XIV did. Although lag issues on the UI was one of few things XIV had that STO didnt.

I could name and shame Force Unleashed 2 being biggest disappointment as well, frankly it lasted not much longer then a lord of the rings film. And I do not even play many games.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 8:06am by Lonix
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#82 Dec 16 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Whoever said Aion was nominated or won "Most Disappointing Game" or "Worst Game Everyone's Played" last year, you're dead wrong or a liar.

http://www.gamespot.com/best-of-2009/nominees/index.html

Aion didn't even make the nominee list.
#83 Dec 16 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Rose-colored lenses, you say? I prefer to think of myself as owning a fanboy hat. And right now, yes, I'm totally wearing it.

There have been times over the past few months though where the hat was nowhere to be found...
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#84 Dec 16 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:


Vanille's voice didn't bother me at all. As for her personality, I haven't played far enough to confirm my suspicions, but I interpret it as more or less appropriate. I couldn't really say that it's cliche, as I can't think of any other characters that act that way (coming from someone who has played many RPG and seen many anime). Over the top, perhaps, but fantasy can afford to be over the top in my book.

Also, there were lots of complaints about the VA in XII. In particular, people complained about Fran, Vaan, and Penelo. There was also that annoying tendency for the VA and the subtitles to not match up.

I wasn't actually talking about the lack of voice animation in ME, just the general uncanny valley-ness of the characters. It bothers me to look at the characters moving around and talking, probably in the same way that a character like Vanille bothers you. Only it's nearly every character. I'm not generally put off by graphics, but when you're going for a realistic art style, you should actually be able to pull it off imo. Few things are more unsettling to me than a failed attempt at human realism (i.e., the uncanny valley).


We'll have to agree to disagree on Vanille, you can have her. ;)

I can see your point on ME and the human characters and the uncanny valley, but really I think it's a very small issue for me personally. Plus it seems as though it will be a long time until characters will actually look human; if ever. We'll be in the 'valley' for a long time, so it seems a rather unreasonable standard to hold devs to. Or at the very least a long time until you'd feel comfortable looking at these types of games. ;) Though I think the Alien races in ME are done very well graphically, characters like Garrus and the Assassin (whose name I forget).

Lastly, (beating a dead horse quite throughly) Vanille was symptomatic of a larger problem and problems of the rest of the game for me. My hatred for the game, however unreasonable, is indicative of my love for a series and developer whom I feel slighted me with a crappy game. And I realize, quite obviously, that has to do more with me than the game itself.

#85 Dec 16 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I gotta agree wholeheartedly that I liked Mass Effect 1 and 2 a lot better than FFXIII for exactly the reason I stated before: FF 13 made me feel like I was watching a movie where I had little to no control over anything, whereas Mass Effect makes me feel more like my decisions actually have some impact on the world.

Even if you want to say "It's still a tunnel; it's only giving you the illusion that it isn't" then FF13 could have used that same illusion.

I want to play games because I want to feel like my character is making a difference, not because I'm just going along for the ride.
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#86 Dec 16 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
As I stated in another thread FFXII didn't make me wince at the characters and dialog, and I just assumed that SE wouldn't go in a super JRPG direction with XIII, but they did. I wasn't a fan of VIII either.

As far as ME's voices are concerned, yeah some aren't animated, but for the most part they are all really solid. Plus the dialog, albeit at times can be cheezy, is also pretty solid.


Vanille's voice didn't bother me at all. As for her personality, I haven't played far enough to confirm my suspicions, but I interpret it as more or less appropriate. I couldn't really say that it's cliche, as I can't think of any other characters that act that way (coming from someone who has played many RPG and seen many anime). Over the top, perhaps, but fantasy can afford to be over the top in my book.


What I'm about to say borrows from a debate over creative writing, so take it with a grain of salt.

Basically: in genre fiction (which is "separate" from literary fiction) the writers will write character to expectations. A stereotypical character is therefore not the result of bad writing, per se, but the result of crafting a character that fits into people's understanding of that genre.
#87 Dec 16 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Basically: in genre fiction (which is "separate" from literary fiction) the writers will write character to expectations. A stereotypical character is therefore not the result of bad writing, per se, but the result of crafting a character that fits into people's understanding of that genre.


Seems like a fair assessment. I think as far as character's go, Vanille is well-suited to the JRPG/anime genre but not terribly cliche. She isn't the most realistically human, and therefor relatable character, but the FF franchise has historically included characters like that.

Perhaps part of the divide in the FF franchise is simply that the rapid growth of technology has painted a perfectly lucid picture of what was once a blurry and interpretive form of expression. In other words, back "in the day" players used their imagination to fill in the gaps of the character's voices and the graphics were more open to interpretation of what the character's, monsters, and environment would look like in reality. These interpretations are shaped by the context of the individual, often to appeal to their own (usually subconscious) preferences.

But these days, you load up a game, and it is what it is. This is what that character sounds like. This is how she reads this line. This is the facial expression she makes. You can no longer imagine that character the way you would like them to be.

For players like myself who grew up on Japanese video games and anime, the context of my perceptions and expectations are already attuned to the standards of that culture. In fact, I can rarely enjoy a western video game because they don't look good (both figuratively and literally speaking) through the cultural lens that I'm used to viewing my gaming experiences through. But I imagine many people were able to interpret the early FF games (and other JRPGs) through a western palate and still find that it met their cultural standards.

Perhaps JRPGs are suffering now largely because western audiences are now able to see the cultural disparities quite clearly.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#88 Dec 16 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:

For players like myself who grew up on Japanese video games and anime, the context of my perceptions and expectations are already attuned to the standards of that culture. In fact, I can rarely enjoy a western video game because they don't look good (both figuratively and literally speaking) through the cultural lens that I'm used to viewing my gaming experiences through. But I imagine many people were able to interpret the early FF games (and other JRPGs) through a western palate and still find that it met their cultural standards.

Perhaps JRPGs are suffering now largely because western audiences are now able to see the cultural disparities quite clearly.



To add to your point: the earlier Final Fantasies were very Western, often in a medieval setting, Western looking castles, wooden ships, etc...It's no wonder they were as palatable as they were. There were pretty clear cut character definitions as well.

And you're right, as time went on FF began to get more and more Japanese, more androgynous characters, more colorful outfits and themes that weren't fully 'exposed' until about FFVII-FFVIII. And this had to do a lot with their graphical representation.

It's funny you mention cultural lenses, because for the longest time Western RPGs didn't interest me. Growing up it was all Japanese games. I disliked Dungeons and Dragons, and never got into the Forgotten Realms games. But over the past 10 or so years it's been games like Oblivion, Dragon Age and Mass Effect. For example I loved FFVII when it came out, but I could care less about the countless spin-offs and extraneous bits. And that might well be due to the overt Japanese themes.

(Though I've been playing Lost Odyssey off and on (I can't stand going back to the turn based battle system, that's why it's taking me so long to get through) and even though it is VERY Japanese as a whole the characters don't seem overtly retarded)
#89 Dec 16 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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(Though I've been playing Lost Odyssey off and on (I can't stand going back to the turn based battle system,)


Come on, enjoy the "REAL FIANEL FANTSY" to the fullest! Sakaguchi is a god!
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#90 Dec 16 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
personaly, MMOs deserve their own fields and shouldnt even be compared to console games, the worlds are just too different


I can agree on this point, they are like apples and oranges. Mostly in the ability to grow and change an MMO. If this was the case you would see both STO and APB on those lists. I remember seeing a lot of "Worst MMO ever made" being thrown around in regards to Star Trek Online. and that was less than a year ago. I'm honestly surprised its not on their list. If it were the case I could understand an army of Star Wars fans rating it down!
#91 Dec 16 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I gotta agree wholeheartedly that I liked Mass Effect 1 and 2 a lot better than FFXIII for exactly the reason I stated before: FF 13 made me feel like I was watching a movie where I had little to no control over anything, whereas Mass Effect makes me feel more like my decisions actually have some impact on the world.

Even if you want to say "It's still a tunnel; it's only giving you the illusion that it isn't" then FF13 could have used that same illusion.

I want to play games because I want to feel like my character is making a difference, not because I'm just going along for the ride.


Videogames, like movies, and books, are the art of illusion. In the case of books, its high illusion, using purely ideas to influence the imagination. Movies have pictures, but it's still just visual images and sounds on a screen (well the sounds are going through the air), its not *actually* experiencing a story. Scenes cut quickly, events jump from place to place, but a movie has to craft the illusion of time and continuity. It has to craft emotion, mood, etc.

Videogames are the next level, they use all these things, and a key point of a videogame is 'game'. So its very important in their case they are also crafting in the experience, a sense of effect on the game. To me, that's what the RPG genre does so well, you get a sense of a story just as good as a movie or book, but you also get the sense of being in the story. The illusion of a world. A good game does this well, and I agree it harms a game if it does it poorly. Some games aren't *terrible* without it, but it's just one of the many aspects of the illusion to work on, and to me, it is fairly worthwhile.
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#92 Dec 16 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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To me, that's what the RPG genre does so well, you get a sense of a story just as good as a movie or book, but you also get the sense of being in the story.


Action game genre, really.

While SE is good at making such action games, there's no beating Hideo Kojima.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#93 Dec 16 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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That means in a year from now it will be eligible for "GREATEST COMEBACK EVER!"


I lol'd, thanks for that.

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#94 Dec 16 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
To me, that's what the RPG genre does so well, you get a sense of a story just as good as a movie or book, but you also get the sense of being in the story.


Action game genre, really.

While SE is good at making such action games, there's no beating Hideo Kojima.


That's one thing I dislike about the RPG genre lately; it feels like RPGs are trying to be more action-oriented.

If I want an action game, I'll play an action game. If I want quick, fast hack and slash, I'll play a game for that. Story is nice, but I play action games because I want to mash buttons.

If I want an RPG, I'll play an RPG. If I want slow paced, story driven play, I'll play a game for that. I don't want fast, I don't want button mashing, I want a story and I want the pace to be even enough that I can feel involved in the game world.

I like chocolate and I like steamed crabs, but I don't want chocolate on my steamed crabs, nor will I be happy if I bite into a chocolate bar and see bits of crabmeat in it.

I like RPGs and I like action games. Leave them the **** apart, or at least ******* warn me if you're going to combine them so I can save my $50.

FFXIII was a chocolate crab.
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#95elevens, Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 2:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.
#96 Dec 16 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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elevens wrote:
in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.


This is why the term "fanboi" has a negative connotation. Don't worry, elevens. We all know you're an adorable counter-culture snowflake and us big bad mean thinking types wouldn't dream of making your beloved mongoloid gaming experience anything like mainstream.

However, since even the game's guiding forces have stated over and over again the game is an embarrassment, you'd have to take that up with them.
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#97 Dec 16 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
elevens wrote:
in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.


This is why the term "fanboi" has a negative connotation. Don't worry, elevens. We all know you're an adorable counter-culture snowflake and us big bad mean thinking types wouldn't dream of making your beloved mongoloid gaming experience anything like mainstream.

However, since even the game's guiding forces have stated over and over again the game is an embarrassment, you'd have to take that up with them.


I'm such a hipster that I was a hipster before being a hipster was cool.
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#98 Dec 16 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
elevens wrote:
in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.


This is why the term "fanboi" has a negative connotation. Don't worry, elevens. We all know you're an adorable counter-culture snowflake and us big bad mean thinking types wouldn't dream of making your beloved mongoloid gaming experience anything like mainstream.

However, since even the game's guiding forces have stated over and over again the game is an embarrassment, you'd have to take that up with them.




sorry if i like the way the game is and dont want them to make it like every other game out there. i guess i am just wrong for liking something that you apparently dont. only difference is you dont see me on forums for games i dont like or that i think are the worst game of the year.
#99 Dec 16 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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elevens wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
elevens wrote:
in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.


This is why the term "fanboi" has a negative connotation. Don't worry, elevens. We all know you're an adorable counter-culture snowflake and us big bad mean thinking types wouldn't dream of making your beloved mongoloid gaming experience anything like mainstream.

However, since even the game's guiding forces have stated over and over again the game is an embarrassment, you'd have to take that up with them.




sorry if i like the way the game is and dont want them to make it like every other game out there. i guess i am just wrong for liking something that you apparently dont. only difference is you dont see me on forums for games i dont like or that i think are the worst game of the year.


I don't think you're wrong for liking it. I can't put my mind into a place where I could see it being fun, but everyone has his choice in what he likes. You'll note I didn't say anything really (er, in this thread) about my personal views/past experience with XIV.

What I was commenting on is that you literally said you don't want people to join your game because most people "won't get it" -- You like playing something that everyone else hates, because it helps make you feel unique and special, and that's fine, I guess.

Let's just call a spade a spade, though, shall we?

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 5:06pm by hexaemeron
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#100 Dec 16 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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elevens wrote:



sorry if i like the way the game is and dont want them to make it like every other game out there. i guess i am just wrong for liking something that you apparently dont. only difference is you dont see me on forums for games i dont like or that i think are the worst game of the year.


You're in a very small minority. Even I don't like the game the way it is (and I'm a huge FF fan), it needs some massive improvements, and this is almost three months after release. The game needs to be playable and if that's "making it like every other game out there", then I really don't know what to tell you.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 2:29pm by UltKnightGrover
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Final Fantasy XI:
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#101 Dec 16 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
elevens wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
elevens wrote:
in some ways if ffxiv gets voted as worst game of the year or what ever ill be happy. that will make a lot of people that do not have the patience to play a game like this stay away. all of the people that can read the reviews and think the game still sounds fun is able to look past the fact that this game may not "hold you hand" with tutorials and other walk throughs teaching you how to play. the amount of people that can look past this and see a game that will be great to play through the harder times until they fix all the corks will be rewarded with a great game and experience along the way. those that want a game to "hold your hand" while learning to play and cannot see past lazy reviewers, well i would rather not play with them anyway. i think in the end this game is going to have one of the best player bases, more than likely not the largest by any means but just more quality people and players and that is more important to me than anything else. so i say keep up with the bad reviews to keep the population to a more serious bunch of people and we will have a blast.


This is why the term "fanboi" has a negative connotation. Don't worry, elevens. We all know you're an adorable counter-culture snowflake and us big bad mean thinking types wouldn't dream of making your beloved mongoloid gaming experience anything like mainstream.

However, since even the game's guiding forces have stated over and over again the game is an embarrassment, you'd have to take that up with them.




sorry if i like the way the game is and dont want them to make it like every other game out there. i guess i am just wrong for liking something that you apparently dont. only difference is you dont see me on forums for games i dont like or that i think are the worst game of the year.


Some men enjoy **** *** while suspended in midair by hooks piercing their skin while covered in hot wax and dressed in panties. I am not one of those men, but I can accept that some men might like that.

So if you like something, then that's fine. But the fact is, most people do not like it.

Now what I don't get is the logic that the game being designed in such a way that most people don't like it somehow makes you like it more. Usually when I find something I like, my first inclination is to invite my friends to try it in the hopes that they would like it, or at least entice them to enjoy it with me. I really don't get why you would WANT people to dislike the game; perhaps you just get some sick pleasure out of everyone disliking it and you can sit alone doing what you want.

*shrug*

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 5:34pm by Mikhalia
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
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