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Interdisclipinary PopulationFollow

#1 Dec 16 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Listen, if you will, and perhaps we can uncover an intersting answer, or at least an enlightened perspective.

There are a few things that I have taken for granted, things that, upon examination, leave me confused. Now I know that the population on many FFXIV servers hovers "dangerously" around the 700-800 range, and I know that many would consider it, currently, a relatively "low population game." I also know that WoW is considered to be the highest population game of any.

That said, I have been recently playing around with my friend's WoW account, specifically with the popular and reputable WoW census mod (more than on any character, humorously). Now this mod, which has been around for many years and still updates very regularly, continuously reveals the population of just about any server on which I play to be in the low hundreds -- I mean 250-350 most times of the day -- it checks all characters in all zones of all levels in your respective faction, so the population of the server itself is likely to be about double whatever number it returns.

I know it to be accurate because I can do "/who" searches manually (or just look around me at the phenomenally barren, non-hub city zones across which I am lucky to encounter any other living player, even for a brief second, or of the opposite faction) and turn up similar results. Now I'm not sure how many servers WoW has, but for it to have as many players as it claims it needs to have at least a few hundred; I am not necessarily saying that they lie about their numbers (although I would wager that every MMO inflates their population, given that it is such a huge conflict of interest), but I am saying that I was underwhelmed at the isolated feeling only a few hours tinkering around left me (I played my friend's reasonably high-level character and started my own).

I suppose I am merely saying how ironic I found it to be that a game that has 50,000 players seemingly allows me the potential to interact with more denizens of my server than one that has 14,000,000. I guess it just taught me that numbers, though important for longevity's sake, are not everything.

Make of it what you will, though: these are simply thoughts, and I am not passing judgment.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#2 Dec 16 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I started my free trial of WoW last week I was on a pretty busy server. People were talking, doing quests; the world seemed alive. I don't know how many people were on.

But you're right. A game can seem quite alive if the population is strategically placed, regardless of a low population.
#3 Dec 16 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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You are confusing "online" and "total subscribers"

You posted "total subscriptions" for WoW and "Estimated online at any given time" for FFXIV.

Please reconsider.
#4 Dec 16 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I recall WoW's numbers were counted from created (including trials) current and even cancelled accounts/character, as in they don't subtract any numbers.

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#5 Dec 16 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, more than 3 million copies of Cataclysm sold through, so the active players are clearly out there somewhere. I'm a little skeptical that WoW servers really have so few players on at any given time, but if it's true then there is some outstanding game design in focusing player populations in a way that makes the server seem so active.
#6 Dec 16 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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I know in Gridania on my server at Emerald Moss there is a set of 15ish RMT, 4 of them have the Onion Helm. What I'm getting at is RMT count for box sales, and obviously with RMT wearing CE items it proves that the idiots don't consider entry cost vs. profit (not that any one would be dumb enough to buy gil at this point in the game... I hope).

Anyway Blizzard consistantly waves the banhammer, I would bet a good chunk of their sales is responsible for their subscriber numbers. Don't get me wrong, it IS a popular game. But it's dependant on server, time zone, and location in game whether you have any chance of running across more than a handfull of people. That's the problem with games that focus on end game only. WAR is a good example of a game that tried to balance population and failed (at least during the first year I played it, I haven't been on since the F2P zone 1 deal). It's really tough to get a perfect sized crowd in a given location.

Look at XI, they wanted us all in Jeuno... and then suddenly they didn't. Once again I'm not sure how they counter balanced it, but I assume they did temproarily at the least. XI (and XIV) have the advantage of more people willing to level other classes since you don't lose anything by doing so... ie: the pain of trying to find a "guildmember" to transfer your stuff to you or to get your new alt into the group or any number of other limitaitons that come with a multi-character MMO. The one thing SE does right (for the FF MMOs anyway) is definately the multi-role Char. Early zones empty and non-new sub friendly? Create a few new classes. Other games have to create new races to ensure the most participation in beginer zones OR they have to ensure quick and easy leveling to near cap.

As to XIV I would like to see server pop numbers. I see the population slowly moving forward to the next rank camps with scatterings of people like myself dipping their fingers in everything so 1-10 people at R0-10 camps, 20-50 people at R20 camp, 10+ usually in the R30 areas for example. And I don't even play at a popular time period during the week because of my location.
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#7ironmonk25, Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 4:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) no idea what server u are on....on the really busy servers there is a que for about 3000....i would almost guess that one server has more active players then all ffxiv. ffxiv has what 6 servers? maybe 10....and they have maybe 1000 active players at a time...
#8 Dec 16 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
there is some outstanding game design in focusing player populations in a way that makes the server seem so active.


Yeah, I guess it's probably the 650 level 84 players all in the same, newest zones that make it seem so populous; I just know that on the one I tried (Uldum), I was sitting at 373 this morning and 844 right now (note that it should be doubled to include the other faction). Aside from the new areas, everything else feels like Windurst Walls. XD

Edit:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
Don't get me wrong, it IS a popular game. But it's dependant on server, time zone, and location in game whether you have any chance of running across more than a handfull of people. That's the problem with games that focus on end game only.


This is essentially what I was talking about: there are certainly (now) almost a thousand players in my faction... I just don't see them and, huge numbers or not, it is odd that my company is but the echoes of any area level 1-79.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 6:06pm by KaneKitty
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#9Sethern79, Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 6:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BS I have been playing my Goby for Cata and there are people all over the place. I have been on 4 servers playing around with friends just to see how Cata is paning out and all of them have a lot of people on at any given time. I can't go more than 3 or so mins with out people runing past. **** there have been more than a few quest that I had to stand in line to do.
#10 Dec 16 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
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Caesura wrote:
Well, more than 3 million copies of Cataclysm sold through, so the active players are clearly out there somewhere. I'm a little skeptical that WoW servers really have so few players on at any given time, but if it's true then there is some outstanding game design in focusing player populations in a way that makes the server seem so active.


WoW sold 3.3 million in its first day. http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/13/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-sells-3-3-million-units-in-one-day/ "fastest-selling PC game of all time." last record holder was WotLK.
#11 Dec 16 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Default
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I'm pretty sure, the Wow latin server's have more population than 70% of FFXIV server's combined <.<
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#12 Dec 16 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
Im not sure what you are trying to prove but telling a lie to do it is sad. Im more than sure that WoW servers never drop much past 3000 online at any given time. BTW Uldum is showing about 7,324 people on ATM. Try using the WoW census addon it works great. Hord is on the low side with about 34% of the online pop. But hey 34% of 7.342 is what 2k+ hord on at this moment?

Again im not sure what you are trying to prove but using BS to do it is sad.


Using the WoW census, right now, in Uldum, 1,564 people on Alliance... so I'm really not sure where you're getting your numbers from but, as I said in my first post, I was only trying to "prove" that, despite its numbers, most parts of the game, for me, to my surprise, seemed deserted.

This is, after all, an FFXIV forum, and I was really just targeting an audience of persistent FFXIV players (hey, they must be pretty persistent to stick by this long, right?), perhaps giving them somewhat of a reassuring personal experience. I didn't think that it would turn into that big of an argument, and I slightly regret responding, for nothing else but the fact that it bumps this thread.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#13 Dec 16 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Im not sure what you are trying to prove but telling a lie to do it is sad. Im more than sure that WoW servers never drop much past 3000 online at any given time. BTW Uldum is showing about 7,324 people on ATM. Try using the WoW census addon it works great. Hord is on the low side with about 34% of the online pop. But hey 34% of 7.342 is what 2k+ hord on at this moment?

Again im not sure what you are trying to prove but using BS to do it is sad.


Using the WoW census, right now, in Uldum, 1,564 people on Alliance... so I'm really not sure where you're getting your numbers from but, as I said in my first post, I was only trying to "prove" that, despite its numbers, most parts of the game, for me, to my surprise, seemed deserted.

This is, after all, an FFXIV forum, and I was really just targeting an audience of persistent FFXIV players (hey, they must be pretty persistent to stick by this long, right?), perhaps giving them somewhat of a reassuring personal experience. I didn't think that it would turn into that big of an argument, and I slightly regret responding, for nothing else but the fact that it bumps this thread.


WoW census dose not give you A/H numbers. It gives you server numbers followed by A/H%. ATM it is showing 3102 people playing. It shows 78% alliance and 32% horde for Uldum server. As this is not a server I play on I don't know how the low level zones play out. But on my server with just about the same numbers I never have a problem runing into people to have fun with. Mostly atm playing goby but they are around.

I still don't see the point of using WoW to make FFXIV players feel bad or good. Its a difrent game. And the truth is anyone who thinks FFXIV can stand up to WoW ATM are just kiding them self. First off as people point out WoW is an older game with tuns of updates/expantions to fall on. But it also ATM is just the better game. You don't sell 3.3 millon copys of a game in one day if you don't have something grand to offer people. WoW has that something that pulls all kinds of people in. **** my 67 year old mother plays WoW.

Say what you will about the game. It is the market leader and will be for some time to come. I really don't see FFXIV being the game to take down the king.

#14 Dec 16 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Default
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Sethern79 wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Im not sure what you are trying to prove but telling a lie to do it is sad. Im more than sure that WoW servers never drop much past 3000 online at any given time. BTW Uldum is showing about 7,324 people on ATM. Try using the WoW census addon it works great. Hord is on the low side with about 34% of the online pop. But hey 34% of 7.342 is what 2k+ hord on at this moment?

Again im not sure what you are trying to prove but using BS to do it is sad.


Using the WoW census, right now, in Uldum, 1,564 people on Alliance... so I'm really not sure where you're getting your numbers from but, as I said in my first post, I was only trying to "prove" that, despite its numbers, most parts of the game, for me, to my surprise, seemed deserted.

This is, after all, an FFXIV forum, and I was really just targeting an audience of persistent FFXIV players (hey, they must be pretty persistent to stick by this long, right?), perhaps giving them somewhat of a reassuring personal experience. I didn't think that it would turn into that big of an argument, and I slightly regret responding, for nothing else but the fact that it bumps this thread.


WoW census dose not give you A/H numbers. It gives you server numbers followed by A/H%. ATM it is showing 3102 people playing. It shows 78% alliance and 32% horde for Uldum server. As this is not a server I play on I don't know how the low level zones play out. But on my server with just about the same numbers I never have a problem runing into people to have fun with. Mostly atm playing goby but they are around.

I still don't see the point of using WoW to make FFXIV players feel bad or good. Its a difrent game. And the truth is anyone who thinks FFXIV can stand up to WoW ATM are just kiding them self. First off as people point out WoW is an older game with tuns of updates/expantions to fall on. But it also ATM is just the better game. You don't sell 3.3 millon copys of a game in one day if you don't have something grand to offer people. WoW has that something that pulls all kinds of people in. **** my 67 year old mother plays WoW.

Say what you will about the game. It is the market leader and will be for some time to come. I really don't see FFXIV being the game to take down the king.




It's more of ah "Hey look they have 600-700 players to on their server's all is not lost for us! Horray!"

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