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Another synthesis ninja nerf.Follow

#1 Dec 16 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default
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What is it this time? As soon as you hit 120-150 quality you get SPARKS! Higher failure rate, and higher durability loss with sparks. I don't see this on making materials but making finished items I had this with HQ materials I had sparks at 120-150 quality EVERY time. Thanks SE, the fact that HQing items isn't random enough even though you got 500 quality using HQ materials, you gotta make it impossible to +3 and +2 is going to take 50 tries. Thanks again SE for not mentioning anything in the notes when you nerf things.
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#2 Dec 16 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Excellent
While I'm not trying to argue with you, I would be interested in seeing some data to back this up. Chalk it up to the scientist in me, but sometimes observations such as this can be deceptive and appear to be something other than they are. How many times did this occur? Did you try to change certain variables to make sure it wasn't something else you were doing? Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, but proof always helps back up your claims.
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#3 Dec 16 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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I bold-spammed through Iron Nuggets to 200+ Quality and didn't see any sparks whatsoever.

Maybe that's why there's new tradeskill gear.
#4 Dec 16 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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Not only that, but if you start a recipe with +3 items, it doesn't automatically start sparking.

I think our OP bold spammed a little too much and got sparks out of it.
#5 Dec 16 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I did it for my R47 BSM hammer so it's a high ranked synthesis and used +2 tin nuggets. Made a +2 but broke 9 in the process. 7/9 of them all had sparks so I was losing a ton of durability.
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#6 Dec 16 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Saw a few sparks after spamming bold for a while, sawing up ash lumber from logs last night.

That said, though, it sure feels like my general success rates are up across the board. I'm able to knock out 11/12 for items that I would have lost 50% of, earlier on. I'm not gearing THAT much better...
#7 Dec 16 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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Think it is safe to say that Bold and Rapid have a higher Craftsmanship/Magic Craftsmanship stat requirement to avoid sparking then?
#8 Dec 16 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Might be worth noting that the OP was commenting on finished items, not materials. Whether this was a nerf or coincidence, it's no secret that SE is playing with their little sliding scale. At launch, HQs were easy to come by but failures were (overly?) common. Unless you were just spamming Rapid Synthesis, of course. Which is why it was nerfed to the point that I still forget it's even there 99% of the time. Then they took in our feedback about how frustrating crafting was and shifted it from more failures and more HQs to fewer failures and fewer HQs.

Seems to me like all they need to do is find a slider that lets them shift everything to "fun" and they'll have a winner on their hands. Until then, they're going to be facing a persistent wall of "feedback".

Edit to clarify:

It's **** near impossible to HQ reliably now. I was messing around with more brass nugget synths the other night. I had just shy of a full stack of Zinc Ore +3 lying around so I decided to see just how high I could drive the quality and see what happened. Brass Nugget synths with Zinc Ore +3 start at ~300 quality, meaning it was pretty easy to drive the finished quality well above 400. Out of something like 10 synths I didn't get a single HQ. So what's the point? Why would I take on the extra risk (and at least double the time/synth) trying to drive up quality when it doesn't really do anything for me? SE is trying so hard to keep things "rare" and "meaningful" that they're rendering their own game systems pointless.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 9:41pm by Aurelius
#9 Dec 16 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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They nerfed it to make control more meaningful :S before you never ever got sparking with Bold spamming. But then why all the new crafting gears give + Craftsmanship and not + Control, makes no sense.
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#10 Dec 16 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
They nerfed it to make control more meaningful :S before you never ever got sparking with Bold spamming. But then why all the new crafting gears give + Craftsmanship and not + Control, makes no sense.


So after SE's nerf to Bold synthesis with the November patch, it makes sense that they'd start giving us gear that would help us get more quality out of each action at the expense of the control frequently needed to succeed with synths we might skill up on.
#11 Dec 17 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Kazuyakun wrote:
What is it this time? As soon as you hit 120-150 quality you get SPARKS! Higher failure rate, and higher durability loss with sparks. I don't see this on making materials but making finished items I had this with HQ materials I had sparks at 120-150 quality EVERY time. Thanks SE, the fact that HQing items isn't random enough even though you got 500 quality using HQ materials, you gotta make it impossible to +3 and +2 is going to take 50 tries. Thanks again SE for not mentioning anything in the notes when you nerf things.


I've synthed several things with Quality of 200+ w/o any sparks...so just your bad luck...get over it.
Oh btw...I've synthed Iron Nuggets 8 times yesterday, each one being Quality of 200+ and I got 1 HQ1 and 1 HQ2...so thats 2 HQs in 8 synths...I don't see any ninja nerf...it's just bad luck for you guys so stop spreading stuff that's not true.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 3:27pm by Shezard

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 3:27pm by Shezard
#12 Dec 17 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
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Shezard wrote:
Kazuyakun wrote:
What is it this time? As soon as you hit 120-150 quality you get SPARKS! Higher failure rate, and higher durability loss with sparks. I don't see this on making materials but making finished items I had this with HQ materials I had sparks at 120-150 quality EVERY time. Thanks SE, the fact that HQing items isn't random enough even though you got 500 quality using HQ materials, you gotta make it impossible to +3 and +2 is going to take 50 tries. Thanks again SE for not mentioning anything in the notes when you nerf things.


I've synthed several things with Quality of 200+ w/o any sparks...so just your bad luck...get over it.
Oh btw...I've synthed Iron Nuggets 8 times yesterday, each one being Quality of 200+ and I got 1 HQ1 and 1 HQ2...so thats 2 HQs in 8 synths...I don't see any ninja nerf...it's just bad luck for you guys so stop spreading stuff that's not true.


Why don't you read the ******* post properly next time? They're talking about FINISHED ITEMS. Nuggets are not FINISHED ITEMS.

I haven't been making any finished items so I can't confirm or deny what the OP is saying and if you're not making finished items, neither can you.
#13 Dec 17 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Last night I managed to make 3 x Iron Pickaxe +1, all back to back to back. The 1st and 3rd required multiple touch ups, while the 2nd was +1 off the bat. The remaining 2 attempts were standard quality. I'm 17 ranks above this synth, so I have to take that into account. Also I had an average of 180 quality on all 5 attempts.

Now out of 4 attempts at willow composite bows all with quality around 140, I could not HQ any of em with multiple touch ups. So it seems a high synth HQ is only attainable with extreme luck, and out ranking the synth severly.

Edit: I forgot to mention I never once got sparks. I also don't spam bold the whole synth either. If I fail a bold attempt, I'll do a standard, then give bold another try.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 2:25pm by gangsterish
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#14 Dec 17 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Kazuyakun wrote:
What is it this time? As soon as you hit 120-150 quality you get SPARKS! Higher failure rate, and higher durability loss with sparks. I don't see this on making materials but making finished items I had this with HQ materials I had sparks at 120-150 quality EVERY time. Thanks SE, the fact that HQing items isn't random enough even though you got 500 quality using HQ materials, you gotta make it impossible to +3 and +2 is going to take 50 tries. Thanks again SE for not mentioning anything in the notes when you nerf things.


I've synthed several things with Quality of 200+ w/o any sparks...so just your bad luck...get over it.
Oh btw...I've synthed Iron Nuggets 8 times yesterday, each one being Quality of 200+ and I got 1 HQ1 and 1 HQ2...so thats 2 HQs in 8 synths...I don't see any ninja nerf...it's just bad luck for you guys so stop spreading stuff that's not true.


Why don't you read the @#%^ing post properly next time? They're talking about FINISHED ITEMS. Nuggets are not FINISHED ITEMS.

I haven't been making any finished items so I can't confirm or deny what the OP is saying and if you're not making finished items, neither can you.


I missed that the first time, but on whim I tried making a Bronze Needle last night anyway. No +1 but got to 215 Quality. ><
#15 Dec 17 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I've gone ahead and tried it on a Iron Chocobo saw, a R40+ syn or so and I did get sparks at around 200~240 but not as early as the R47 BSM hammer which was 160s. I think it might be items that are closer to your rank, IE a R20 synthesis and you are R20 if you are hitting 200 quality or so you'll get sparks.

Note some people mentioned control stat items helped reduce this, during these syn I was NOT using my iron assault sallet and velveteen halfgloves but was instead using the new +craftmanship equipment.

Forgot to mention that I did have get any sparks making polished iron file until I finished the syn and hit touch up once with 300 quality and this is a R37 syn or so, so I assume the sparks will show up only if you are NOT many ranks above the synthesis.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 7:08pm by Kazuyakun
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#16 Dec 17 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Kazuyakun wrote:
Well I've gone ahead and tried it on a Iron Chocobo saw, a R40+ syn or so and I did get sparks at around 200~240 but not as early as the R47 BSM hammer which was 160s. I think it might be items that are closer to your rank, IE a R20 synthesis and you are R20 if you are hitting 200 quality or so you'll get sparks.

Note some people mentioned control stat items helped reduce this, during these syn I was NOT using my iron assault sallet and velveteen halfgloves but was instead using the new +craftmanship equipment.

Forgot to mention that I did have get any sparks making polished iron file until I finished the syn and hit touch up once with 300 quality and this is a R37 syn or so, so I assume the sparks will show up only if you are NOT many ranks above the synthesis.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 7:08pm by Kazuyakun


That's the point I was talking about, they are trying to make Control somewhat important because before it's just junk, except for deluded people who thought control = success rate >_>

Out of all the new gears added for crafter only the Chef Apron (Not the Vintage) add some Control. Guess SE want us to dress like Master Chef now~
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#17 Dec 17 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Kazuyakun wrote:
Well I've gone ahead and tried it on a Iron Chocobo saw, a R40+ syn or so and I did get sparks at around 200~240 but not as early as the R47 BSM hammer which was 160s. I think it might be items that are closer to your rank, IE a R20 synthesis and you are R20 if you are hitting 200 quality or so you'll get sparks.

Note some people mentioned control stat items helped reduce this, during these syn I was NOT using my iron assault sallet and velveteen halfgloves but was instead using the new +craftmanship equipment.

Forgot to mention that I did have get any sparks making polished iron file until I finished the syn and hit touch up once with 300 quality and this is a R37 syn or so, so I assume the sparks will show up only if you are NOT many ranks above the synthesis.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 7:08pm by Kazuyakun


That's the point I was talking about, they are trying to make Control somewhat important because before it's just junk, except for deluded people who thought control = success rate >_>

Out of all the new gears added for crafter only the Chef Apron (Not the Vintage) add some Control. Guess SE want us to dress like Master Chef now~


With all the new gear giving +Craftsmanship (and loads of it), it's a lot easier to see that heavily stacking Craftsmanship is letting us get a decent amount of quality gains per synth again if you swap the control gear out for them.
#18 Dec 18 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Kazuyakun wrote:
What is it this time? As soon as you hit 120-150 quality you get SPARKS! Higher failure rate, and higher durability loss with sparks. I don't see this on making materials but making finished items I had this with HQ materials I had sparks at 120-150 quality EVERY time. Thanks SE, the fact that HQing items isn't random enough even though you got 500 quality using HQ materials, you gotta make it impossible to +3 and +2 is going to take 50 tries. Thanks again SE for not mentioning anything in the notes when you nerf things.


I've synthed several things with Quality of 200+ w/o any sparks...so just your bad luck...get over it.
Oh btw...I've synthed Iron Nuggets 8 times yesterday, each one being Quality of 200+ and I got 1 HQ1 and 1 HQ2...so thats 2 HQs in 8 synths...I don't see any ninja nerf...it's just bad luck for you guys so stop spreading stuff that's not true.


Why don't you read the @#%^ing post properly next time? They're talking about FINISHED ITEMS. Nuggets are not FINISHED ITEMS.

I haven't been making any finished items so I can't confirm or deny what the OP is saying and if you're not making finished items, neither can you.


If you would read my post properly you would have noticed that I've synthed SEVERAL STUFF(finished stuff...) with over 200 Quality...w/o any ******* sparks, that he ******* mentioned(to use your language)
And the Iron Nuggets part was about him bragging about low HQ rates, while I HQed 2 out of 8 synths(while he braggs about needing over 50 triers to HQ something)...
One didn't have to do anything with the other, it was 2 examples about 2 different things he was bragging about(sparks on finished stuff, and low HQ rates)

Learn to read my post properly, before accusing me of not reading his post properly.
#19 Dec 19 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you guys need to calm down a bit before this thread turns into a flame war and gets locked.

OT: I havn't really made any finished items since patch, and can't comment on materials either as I never really had good HQ rate even with high quality on anything. In fact I tend to HQ more often with very low quality (like 20-30) more often than 100+ numbers.

Does control really affect the amount of Quality per action? If so that is news to me, and the system would make sense. Control for when you want to try to HQ, but lowering your craftsmanship, thus lowering your security and making failure more likely at the expense of quality.

Sparks are refered to by SE as "Control Risk" am I not mistaken? So I would assume that finished items with high quality are more "risky" than others the farther you push your limits (Synth rank vs class level). I do agree though that SE needs to not Ninja-patch anything at all so everyone is aware of whats going on, and not just starting flame wars over superstition and bad luck.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 1:10pm by iRocky
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#20 Dec 19 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Shezard wrote:
If you would read my post properly you would have noticed that I've synthed SEVERAL STUFF(finished stuff...) with over 200 Quality...w/o any @#%^ing sparks, that he @#%^ing mentioned(to use your language)
And the Iron Nuggets part was about him bragging about low HQ rates, while I HQed 2 out of 8 synths(while he braggs about needing over 50 triers to HQ something)...
One didn't have to do anything with the other, it was 2 examples about 2 different things he was bragging about(sparks on finished stuff, and low HQ rates)

Learn to read my post properly, before accusing me of not reading his post properly.


So out of a sample of 8 you think that means that HQs are a consistent outcome? They're not. I went through about 40-50 brass nugget synths yesterday. The substantial majority of those were with HQ Zinc Ore and out of all of them I walked away with 2 HQs. Random systems are random and the point is that there's no real point to driving up quality because it doesn't seem to make any significant difference. I got two Buffalo Leather Strap HQ1s in a row last night. If all I had done was 3-4 synths I'd say that the HQ rate is awesome right now. I didn't do 3-4 synths. I did about 150 throughout the day yesterday. All of a sudden the HQ rate doesn't seem so good now, does it?

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 12:48pm by Aurelius
#21 Dec 20 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Shezard wrote:
If you would read my post properly you would have noticed that I've synthed SEVERAL STUFF(finished stuff...) with over 200 Quality...w/o any @#%^ing sparks, that he @#%^ing mentioned(to use your language)
And the Iron Nuggets part was about him bragging about low HQ rates, while I HQed 2 out of 8 synths(while he braggs about needing over 50 triers to HQ something)...
One didn't have to do anything with the other, it was 2 examples about 2 different things he was bragging about(sparks on finished stuff, and low HQ rates)

Learn to read my post properly, before accusing me of not reading his post properly.


So out of a sample of 8 you think that means that HQs are a consistent outcome? They're not. I went through about 40-50 brass nugget synths yesterday. The substantial majority of those were with HQ Zinc Ore and out of all of them I walked away with 2 HQs. Random systems are random and the point is that there's no real point to driving up quality because it doesn't seem to make any significant difference. I got two Buffalo Leather Strap HQ1s in a row last night. If all I had done was 3-4 synths I'd say that the HQ rate is awesome right now. I didn't do 3-4 synths. I did about 150 throughout the day yesterday. All of a sudden the HQ rate doesn't seem so good now, does it?

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 12:48pm by Aurelius


So I guess you completely ignored my first post, when responding with this right?
Cause in my first post I said, "its just your bad luck, get over it"...
Random is random, can't do anything about it, but he was bragging like the whole system is just @#%^ed up, while it only was @#%^ed up for him at that point, while it was perfectly fine for me...so whos in the right, and whos in the wrong now?

It's the same with people complaining about not getting any decent SP, while I still am able to get 10k+ SP per hour(solo or with a small group of 3-4 ppl) and 40-60k SP on 5-6 Leves only every reset...so whos right and whos wrong now?

It's not like I'm the the center of anything and everything that works for me is working for everybody...but at the same time it's not that way for him either, so he should just stop complaining about "having bad luck"

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 2:51pm by Shezard
#22 Dec 20 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Shezard wrote:

So I guess you completely ignored my first post, when responding with this right?
Cause in my first post I said, "its just your bad luck, get over it"...
Random is random, can't do anything about it, but he was bragging like the whole system is just @#%^ed up, while it only was @#%^ed up for him at that point, while it was perfectly fine for me...so whos in the right, and whos in the wrong now?


Okay, first of all, you're not bragging when you're talking about something that has gone wrong. Bragging is saying, "look at what went right and how good it makes me!" Okay?

Bold synthesis was nerfed to ****. There's no getting around it. And in the process of trying to figure out what was going on, someone observed something that was of concern to them and the posted about it here. And then you had to come along in your semi-literate way and be a douchebag about it. You're out of your league, sport. Quit while you're ahead.
#23 Dec 20 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I can definitely confirm:

Even with very few bolds and most of my 200-300 Quality from the starting material stats, sparks fly upon first touch-up.

My control stat is reasonably good, and this is even while having Preserve up (used on last standard, had 2-3 turns remaining)

Even 400+ Quality and 120 Durability remaining for touch-ups I was barely able to squeak a +1 off. This is a r20 GSM doing a set of 3 Bone armets (sp?)using +3 mats ... I use Tender Touch, Preserve (and Masterpiece for the few bolds)
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