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Urge to grind absentFollow

#1 Dec 17 2010 at 3:30 AM Rating: Good
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Over the years of playing ffxi and a few other mmo's i have always developed that "urge to grind." A satisfaction of; Steady XP (consistent xp knowing the next level would be coming in "blah" or "blahh" more hours) and then doing the work needed to attain the next level for that new set of armor or that new spell I've had sitting in my storage gathering dust.

FFXIV is absent of that feeling to "must grind as soon as i get home!" the xp is inconsistent the guildleves don't last long and i just end up alone killing mobs(smashing heavy hit key over and over for hours) it just doesn't feel like im making steady progress. No exp chains, no party functions or team cordination. No charming mobs and sicking them on another and running around looking for the next mob to charm. No consistent spawn points. No setting up camp for 5 hours and making new friends while we spend memorable moments together getting those levels and discussing what we plan on doing endgame. Just me my sore fingers and soon to be broken keyboard and that empty feeling at then end of the day thinking to myself "wow i just spent my whole sunday alone, smashing a **** key for hours on end and i havn't even gained much from it, just got from rank 23-24. its discouraging to think of the upper levels.

It's nice SE made this game so we can solo, but really who wants to be stuck in their room infront of a computer screen alone in real life for endless hours and alone ingame for endless hours grinding, its depressing and boring. As humans we are social creature and have that drive to interact with one another. FFXIV is just missing something....
#2 Dec 17 2010 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's nice SE made this game so we can solo, but really who wants to be stuck in their room infront of a computer screen alone in real life for endless hours and alone ingame for endless hours grinding, its depressing and boring. As humans we are social creature and have that drive to interact with one another. FFXIV is just missing something....


Don't worry mate, they'll open XIV's Jeuno soon, then you can sit there for hours on end alone waiting for the single party invite that can give you the oh so memorable XI experiences again.

Why were they so memorable again? Oh yeah, because every invite was like winning the lottery. Please bring it back SE!
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#3 Dec 17 2010 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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Thumbs up for bringing up a good point. I'm pretty sure not everyone agrees, but I sure do.
#4 Dec 17 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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I also agree. It is just the reality of happenings in xiv at moment.
#5 Dec 17 2010 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
It's nice SE made this game so we can solo, but really who wants to be stuck in their room infront of a computer screen alone in real life for endless hours and alone ingame for endless hours grinding, its depressing and boring. As humans we are social creature and have that drive to interact with one another. FFXIV is just missing something....


Don't worry mate, they'll open XIV's Jeuno soon, then you can sit there for hours on end alone waiting for the single party invite that can give you the oh so memorable XI experiences again.

Why were they so memorable again? Oh yeah, because every invite was like winning the lottery. Please bring it back SE!


Ahhh Merry Christmas! Plenty of people actually knew how to get a party if a party wasn't readily available (make your own anyone?). This isn't to say the party feature in FFXI was perfect but actual partying was fun and interacting with other players in a cooperative manner was actually possible. In FFXIV, so far, the game is devoid of a good way to make parties and the need to make parties because its still broken. To TC: I say wait it out a bit 'til they iron out the party mechanics and hopefully they give us better party features.
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#6 Dec 17 2010 at 4:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Even if they add features to make/seek/create parties its absolutely pointless (other then guild links) to be in one. They need to address the abysmal scaling they've incorporated to start off.

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#7 Dec 17 2010 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Vackashken wrote:
Even if they add features to make/seek/create parties its absolutely pointless (other then guild links) to be in one. They need to address the abysmal scaling they've incorporated to start off.



I know, hence:

Quote:
TC: I say wait it out a bit 'til they iron out the party mechanics and hopefully they give us better party features.


But along with these fixes they need to add better functionality to actually creating parties...although I agree, if parties in their current state were useful, people would adapt to any party creating function they have in place most likely.
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#8 Dec 17 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's no incentive between ranks like in FFXI. Rank 1 grind is the same as rank 40 grind. In FFXI, there was always that "I want to get that 2 more levels" to wear that next armor, use that weapon, obtain that new spell or weapon skill. 18 to get that subjob, 30 for that advance job, 50 to do genkai etc..

Now you can use the armor and weapon ahead if you wanted to. There's no must get skill or spell you awaited for, there's just no major milestones to rank up for.
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#9 Dec 17 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah there's just so munch mindless number crunching in this with every aspect and no reward for crunching those numbers. The story missions are so far apart that I've seriously completely forgotten anything that was going on in my plot line, and by the next time I reach a story mission, I won't have any idea what's going on.
#10 Dec 17 2010 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
There's no incentive between ranks like in FFXI. Rank 1 grind is the same as rank 40 grind. In FFXI, there was always that "I want to get that 2 more levels" to wear that next armor, use that weapon, obtain that new spell or weapon skill. 18 to get that subjob, 30 for that advance job, 50 to do genkai etc..

Now you can use the armor and weapon ahead if you wanted to. There's no must get skill or spell you awaited for, there's just no major milestones to rank up for.


That's actually what I think it is.

Also I don't like how every odd level I get absolutely zip. I feel like basically every level is 2x longer. The cap may as well be 25 and the requirements for each odd/even pair grouped together. I hit 33 earlier this week and I was like "Woohoo, half way to my real level!"

As far as Conjurer goes - there are milestone abilities I want (Raise, I'm looking at you) but I also feel my list of equip-able actions is full of junk I don't need, no clue what the point is, have never used for any practical purpose.

I use most of the buffs. Most of the nukes. Cure (& Sacrfice) - but there's like 20 other spells/abilities I look at and go "Huh? Why would I want that?" I use Profundity (Elemental Seal per minute!) and I used to use Spiritbind (before Siphon MP) but even that is gone to the wayside. I don't know. Half the levels (which are half the levels total as originally established) have junk abilities I don't even want.
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#11 Dec 17 2010 at 6:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wish they would add plenty of armor that requires certain levels to wear...i don't like this "optimal level" crap either tbh, like some of you guys have said, I know for me personally, in FFXI I always looked forward to certain levels just so I can try on a new set of gear and weapons...that all goes down the drain in this game. I think this is a big mistake they made. Some people seem to think its because of lack on inventory space - well I don't see how not capping armor solves that at all tbh...they could've just as easily added armor tabs in your inventory and made it a completely different entity all together with its own cap on how much gear you can carry at once and leave the available 100 slots for loot.
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#12 Dec 17 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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I guess they had in mind a 'Synch' thingy as in FFXI without thinking about the consequences that we like to look forward to equipping new gears.
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#13 Dec 17 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
I wish they would add plenty of armor that requires certain levels to wear...i don't like this "optimal level" crap either tbh, like some of you guys have said, I know for me personally, in FFXI I always looked forward to certain levels just so I can try on a new set of gear and weapons...that all goes down the drain in this game. I think this is a big mistake they made. Some people seem to think its because of lack on inventory space - well I don't see how not capping armor solves that at all tbh...they could've just as easily added armor tabs in your inventory and made it a completely different entity all together with its own cap on how much gear you can carry at once and leave the available 100 slots for loot.


Honestly I think this is one of the most detrimental aspects of the game. Firstly it takes away the wow factor. I remember years ago (on 11) I finally hit level 50 and could wear my Scorpion Harness as a DRG. I was **** proud of myself for getting to 50 and getting enough money for it. The "wow" factor in this game is completely gone.

Secondly, which I find even more troubling is if you can wear what you want any time you want that automatically kills almost all need to buy low level equipment. So any budding crafter, say making copper rings, will have no choice but to vendor them all. People harp on 11s economy - which it deserves to be in some aspect - but at least low level equipment was constantly recycled because you needed it when you switched jobs.

There is no recycle effect in this game. I don't know about you guys buts its very rare for me to see low level equipment in bazaars or the wards. People just don't need it at all, in any way, whatsoever. This is going to hurt the game in the long run - I am honestly baffled as to why they did it.
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#14 Dec 17 2010 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with OP. I think part of the reason for the optimal rank "all-levels-can-wear-gear" idea is: Imagine if you make gear level-specific and only wearable by the correct jobs. Now imagine how many pieces of gear can you wear at that level for said job? I think your options for gear at that level will decrease dramatically. Now, imagine if you take out the colors for every piece of gear; the available gear pool for specific levels will dip substantially.

The way I see it is: the optimal gear function is really a covering SE has put into place to make it seem as if the game offers a lot of gear options, when it actually does not. I kept my gear level and job specific for a while, and ended up wearing the same body piece for about twenty levels and could have worn it for more if I had not become fed up with looking at the same thing for weeks. What SE needs to do, instead, is introduce a wide variety of gear and then take off the optimal rank attribute - it really deters from the whole "accomplishment" feel and dampens my motivation and excitement for leveling up.

Furthermore, someone mentioned the inability to utilize a great majority of the spells due to a lack of situation. I agree wholeheartedly; I think the reason for said situation is the lack of strategy in the combat system. Currently, engaging a mob seems like nothing more than a bash 'em with nukes/default attack/TP moves until mob is dead. Spells like Dia/Poison/Slow/Bio/Gravity seem pointless (unlike FFXI, where these spells were necessary for a great variety of situations and were actually useful). SE needs to bring back strategy so that different classes can begin to work together through spells, skillchains, etc.

Like the OP, I also greatly miss the central party system. Many people complained about the lack of solo play (and the necessity of party-play) in FFXI, if I recall correctly. Now, I am seeing the opposite trend/requests in FFXIV. In FFXIV, I hope SE can figure out a way to balance the two.


Edited, Dec 17th 2010 8:11am by LadyRea
#15 Dec 17 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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Possible Solution: Make it so that you cannot equip a piece of gear at a certain rank unless you have at least 1 class at that rank. Thus, there is more incentive to grind. Of course, there is the obvious like add more missions, more class quests, R50 leves, milestones(lvl 20 choco, genkai, AF, etc.), etc.
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#16 Dec 17 2010 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry, I for one, do NOT miss waiting 5 hours to be accepted into a party (or trying to build one). I DO however miss partying. Heres the thing though. My personal opinion is that I enjoy that the "grind" can be soloed. I can still group up with friends if I want to. I just don't HAVE to. I find that nice, especially as one of those "limited time to play" people. However, it would be nice if there was more multiplayer strategy involved for bigger things. Like mini-bosses and such. Or like how FFXI had a few quests or missions that NEEDED co-operation. (like the 3 mage gate, or the quest in Sandy with the prince, etc.)

I would definitely be ok if they had more group activities, as long as they aren't a direct roadblock of the progression of the game. (unless its something major like a big boss fight or something.)
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#17 Dec 17 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Autumnfire wrote:
I'm sorry, I for one, do NOT miss waiting 5 hours to be accepted into a party (or trying to build one).


Always funny to me when people say these kinda things. Like the "opposition" does miss waiting for 5 hours (or whatever arbitrary number is thrown out) rather then making the point of wanting a system that rewards and scales progression accordingly by working and giving us a reason to party in general.
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#18 Dec 17 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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Autumnfire wrote:
Or like how FFXI had a few quests or missions that NEEDED co-operation.


heheheh I just remembered how in FFXI Garliage Citadel you needed like 4 people to open the gate by stepping on the switches and once I stood there with a LS mate for about 20 minutes before a couple guys ran by and helped us out (we were doing coffers)...its funny how over the top FFXI did things sometimes, but I obviously enjoyed that aspect of it otherwise I wasn't drawn in for 3 years. I think FFXIV needs to retain some of that and at the same time make it more casual friendly - I think atm they pretty much completely botched party play, they're like in a limbo state with the needle hovering back and forth between casual and party oriented play and doesn't know which way to go. I think they need to have two types of mobs in game, ones that can be solo'd all the way to level 50 with a slightly lower xp/sp retention on them and ones that can't be solo'd, more akin to FFXI mobs, but that give better xp and perhaps "xp chaining" as FFXI had...maybe this way they can make both worlds happy again.
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#19 Dec 17 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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Plenty of people actually knew how to get a party if a party wasn't readily available (make your own anyone?).


Oh yes, me included. Actually, the whole game taught me that you don't get anything done if you don't start it yourself. This would be fine if it got me somewhere more than half the time. But when 3 people are lfg and no more pop after 2 hours, yes, I just suck. I suck because I can't convince everyone not lfg to come exp with me.

Quote:
This isn't to say the party feature in FFXI was perfect but actual partying was fun and interacting with other players in a cooperative manner was actually possible.


Whatever. If I have to deal with that crap again, it doesn't really matter how fun the rest is. I don't want to be in a huge lottery anymore where you win if you have the correct job or need to spend 2+ hours partying in one sitting only because everyone knows how hard it is to actually get exp in that game.

Sugarcoat it all you want... if we can have the good sides of XI without the glaring downsides, bring it on.. But it is not realistic. Doesn't stop us from hoping, of course.
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#20 Dec 17 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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The basic structure is there to make Party Exp a monster success! The party search tool needs to be adjusted to simplify it (and I'm 100% sure they will change it soon). The ability to join party's from anywhere in the world is amazing. The flexibility of classes and builds make the need for set party jobs obsolete (this is a negative to me but they stated they were going to address this issue soon). The ability for anyone to teleport to any aetherite and the ability to port up to 15ppl at a time is a big improvement over FFXI. If they added a chain bonus (which was not in FFXI from the start either) and balanced the SP/kill when facing IT mobs (also which was not in FFXI at launch) then you should have a really nice party system in place.

The solo play is there especially with leve's and small groups works there as well. The traditional party has not been truelly born yet but I can see it coming in the next few months. Right now is a great time to build up your crafting lvl's make some $$$ and work on support jobs 1-25.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 9:43am by aj7418
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#21 Dec 17 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I just started XIV, however, those that were saying there is no party strategy in the fights, so can someone explain what battle regime is then?

There has been so much negative information about FF14 right now. It is sad, but things will change. I like one persons post that now is the chance to up your crefting, save $$$, subjobs, quests, or whatever else before they start putting end game content in next year.

For those that played FFXI, it was alittle similar when it started, however, since they released in Japan first, they had time to work out alot more bugs before it hit the NA market. One reason why that was easier to fix too, is there was very little content that started with FFXI basic. Even after the first expansion, the level cap was 50 and Bloodtear Bardurf was considered an HNM camped by 18 ppl. It looks like FF14 has implemented levels and more content to start.

As for the partying vs solo. I agree, I miss the incentive to grind. Getting new gear and spells and levels, you saw a greater amount of quick achievements, which offset the long achievements of camping Faffy. I never had an issue with parties. If there wasn't one, I created. I always managed to bring a bard out my *** to build a party. I also was a brd too if I needed to be. I do miss the connection that you got with certain members when you were at camp leveling for hours or go on quests together. I am sure that will come later in this game. But they are trying to give the option for people to be able to log in for 2 hours and accomplish something. I actually like alittle more solo. After playing FFXI for 6/7 years, I honestly don't have the time to devote like I did before. I am sure they will trial and error to find the balance.
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#22 Dec 17 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry, I for one, do NOT miss waiting 5 hours to be accepted into a party (or trying to build one). I DO however miss partying



No one liked it - but FFXI solved it a couple years later with Level Sync. Of course it didn't solve the problems with exclusion of jobs (SE failure) or the general player-decided priority of BRD RDM SAM(also SE failure), but it did make it so that you weren't sitting around for days at a time because there weren't any parties going on within 2-3 levels of you.

I don't get why they didn't just continue on that road with XIV - it seems like they took everything that was great about partying and completely threw it out the window. I'm one of the folks that advocates choice and doesn't think that solo should be penalized since sometimes you just can't wait around, but the OP is right - there's no real reward for "grinding" and parties are so crippled at the moment that there isn't even the social aspect to draw us in.

Hopefully with the new team in place the game will get back on the right track - but they need to sit down with FFXI and relearn the formulas that kept players coming back.
#23 Dec 17 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the problem they're having with the equipment is they didn't want to pigeon hole any particular class into what they have to wear. In this game you can mix and match abilities from different classes so-as to "make your own class." I think they wanted to stray from making something like Glad can only wear heavy armor, Lancers can only wear light (and thus can't tank), etc...They wanted every class to be able to fill different roles in a party (some can do some more effectively obviously). However, and this is my personal opinion, it's tantamount to making everyone special. If everyone is special then really no one is. We're being bombarded with new abilities every 2 levels that aren't really significantly different from abilities we already have (or aren't as useful). The only reason I equip new abilities is to see their new animations...then went heh that did the same amount of damage as my old one.

I agree that with no level restrictions levelling into new armor has no excitement. I too remember when I could finally wear my SH or O-Hat and being really excited about it. But now you can wear those eqs at level 1. I know people were wearing haubs in FFXIV as soon as we could make one at launch around rank 14 or so. Maybe they should make the penalty for not wearing the eq at the optimum rank more severe, I'm not sure. I remember while LFP in FFXI always searching thru the AH for armors the next few levels that I will rank into and I always loved putting on new pieces of gear, "Oh man these boots look sweet!"

I guess going back to my first point a little bit, I would always look up what abilities you would get in FFXI at certain ranks. Like omg I get Berserk at 15, and Double Attack at 25, or Meditate, or whatever class I was levelling up at the time. There were certain abilities that made the class feel unique and made you excited to obtain them. These abilities were also, usually, pretty powerful. This game does not have those yet, and I'm certainly hoping that in the future these will develop.
#24 Dec 17 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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I don't get why they didn't just continue on that road with XIV


It still wasn't solo friendly.
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#25 Dec 17 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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I think the thing I miss the most that 11 had and 14 doesn't, is the impact gear has on party dynamics. When you saw a thf decked in emp pin, leaping boots, etc., you knew you had a nice thf in the pt and they made a noticable impact in killing mobs. In this game you just hit and hit and hit and hit and there isn't a real difference in the gear's value on the fight, you just mob the enemy and move on. Sadly, I miss being the elite, showing people I care enough about my gear to be as good as I can be. Some like that aspect, others don't, but I miss the gear having a more pronounced effect on the player's value to a party.

~Skye

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 11:59am by SkyeAyatari
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#26 Dec 17 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Ya this game needs equipment level requirements, who remembers the hours we spent putting together that new armor set on the AH, window shopping.. dreaming.. working hard for that level when I can just wear it...

I mean sure now there's NM leves that drop hard to get equipment. But that's not the point, that is TOO hard to get. I just want to ding a level and get to wear my new armor... (Anyone read that 50% drop rate on the NM? yikes). So SQEnix where's our little rewards along the way to lvl 50? I want joy every 5 levels at least!
#27 Dec 17 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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in XI you can wear level 75 gear when you are level sync to level 30. However, the lack of stats are more apparent. That might be the only difference here. Making the gear difference between stat and level more apparent.

However in XI, you can tell people that were too lazy to buy gear appropriate to there level, when they just level sync and just wear all there lacking upper level gear. Those that really cared about what gear they wore, even level syncing to 60, would put on appropriate level 60 gear to get the full benefits of the gear.

FFXIV is much closer to this than the 4 years that it took XI to implement.
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#28 Dec 17 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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in XI you can wear level 75 gear when you are level sync to level 30. However, the lack of stats are more apparent. That might be the only difference here. Making the gear difference between stat and level more apparent.

However in XI, you can tell people that were too lazy to buy gear appropriate to there level, when they just level sync and just wear all there lacking upper level gear. Those that really cared about what gear they wore, even level syncing to 60, would put on appropriate level 60 gear to get the full benefits of the gear.

FFXIV is much closer to this than the 4 years that it took XI to implement.
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#29 Dec 17 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Druwillo wrote:

in XI you can wear level 75 gear when you are level sync to level 30. However, the lack of stats are more apparent. That might be the only difference here. Making the gear difference between stat and level more apparent.


Well in XI you still had to have reached the appropriate level to begin with to earn the right to wear that gear. Most people who are level 75+ and syncing down are doing it for the benefit of helping their friends and LSmates, not because they genuinely want to epeen it up wearing top of the line level 60 Sync equipment. In fact, I don't know many people who keep those lower level sets around just on the off chance that they *might* be invited to a a level 45 party in the *********

No, the issue here is bigger than just this or that - it reeks of path of least resistance standard human approach to things. It just feels like they didn't want to do the work, so they just made everything a free for all.
#30 Dec 17 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Why would anyone buy high level gear before they can use them in the first place? They cost more in comparison to lower level equipment, and before the GL rewards get better they have no chance of buying them as-is.

People still need to obtain the money needed to 'earn the right' to wear the gear. If they farmed their *** off at rank 10 for a rank 40 body piece they won't even be able to use, **** yes they deserve to wear it with pride.
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#31 Dec 17 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:

Why would anyone buy high level gear before they can use them in the first place? They cost more in comparison to lower level equipment, and before the GL rewards get better they have no chance of buying them as-is.

People still need to obtain the money needed to 'earn the right' to wear the gear. If they farmed their *** off at rank 10 for a rank 40 body piece they won't even be able to use, **** yes they deserve to wear it with pride.


The only other reason I can think of is purely aesthetic. Gear tends to progress in two ways -

1. Stats get better
2. The quality of the design gets better

It's the same anywhere - you buy a "higher level" piece of equipment, it is stronger and looks nicer. That's the main reason I can see for people sporting equipment not of the optimal rank if they can get their hands on it. I know that in XI I couldn't wait to turn in that plain Jane set of brown beetle gear for the level 24 blue chainmail, and later for other sets of armor that just were more polished. It was partly because of the better stats, but also because I just wanted my character to look badass.

As an aside - it doesn't really bother me what other people wear or what they do with their own resources - but for me, I prefer the feeling of "accomplishment" when I go to my inventory screen and that piece of epic gear that I have been looking at is no longer grayed out.
#32 Dec 17 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Druwillo wrote:

in XI you can wear level 75 gear when you are level sync to level 30. However, the lack of stats are more apparent. That might be the only difference here. Making the gear difference between stat and level more apparent.


Well in XI you still had to have reached the appropriate level to begin with to earn the right to wear that gear. Most people who are level 75+ and syncing down are doing it for the benefit of helping their friends and LSmates, not because they genuinely want to epeen it up wearing top of the line level 60 Sync equipment. In fact, I don't know many people who keep those lower level sets around just on the off chance that they *might* be invited to a a level 45 party in the sh*tadel.

No, the issue here is bigger than just this or that - it reeks of path of least resistance standard human approach to things. It just feels like they didn't want to do the work, so they just made everything a free for all.


75 was the wrong example. Maybe level 60 sync'ing to level 55. At 60, you used to Sync down to the colibri camp at 55 to get fast exp. Even then, people didn't change their gear. It is easy now, to sell and re-buy your equipment rather than store it and mule it over. Takes too long now. However, I have read that the recycling system here isn't working yet. I understand you have to get the level to wear higher level gear, then you get the full stats. I think SE are now doing something similar, you can wear the gear anytime, but still full stats will be available upon reaching the level of the armor.

It seems we are sacraficing the little achievements of armor through levels, when this maybe SE plan to control RMT and economic situations. But like a previous post mentioned, without a recycling system, then what's the point of less than uber gear? But the point of my post was that they eventually put a decent system in place 5 years after the game was up and running. SE have somewhat emulated that now in the first couple of months and alll they just need to do is fine tune it.
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Name: Druwillo
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Name: Druwillo
Server: Alexander
LS: Serendipity
RETIRED - Red Mage 75/Bard 75/Ninja 75/Thief 75/ WHM 80 / SAM 80

#33 Dec 17 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
29 posts
I think you misunderstand the level sync gear in XI. say a level 50 joins your level 18 party, the level 50's gear will sync down but the level 18 can not wear the level 50 gear at 18. I could have misread hat you were saying so if you did understand it that way then Sorry lol. But yea in XIV i won't wear anything thats more then say 5-7 levels above my current rank.

Ok Ignore what i said other then the i don't gear more then 5-7 leves above my rank part lol. Sorry Dru i didn't get the stuff farther down.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 12:51pm by Kindredsouls
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#34 Dec 17 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Kindredsouls wrote:
I think you misunderstand the level sync gear in XI. say a level 50 joins your level 18 party, the level 50's gear will sync down but the level 18 can not wear the level 50 gear at 18. I could have misread hat you were saying so if you did understand it that way then Sorry lol. But yea in XIV i won't wear anything thats more then say 5-7 levels above my current rank.


Yeah the gear level syncs down, but the stats, don't. If you wear an o-hat with + 10 Eva and + 10 acc, you sync to level 18, you don't get the +10 Eva and +10 Acc. You get a percentage of it based on the level down. But agreed you can only wear an o-hat at 70. But it is was available for a level 18, they would only get the lower percetage of stats. Which is where FFXIV is basically eliminated the need to reach level 70 for an o-hat, but you can equip the o-hat at level 18. The stats or lack of stats while the level 70 ohat is equipped needs to be adjusted in FFXIV.
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Name: Druwillo
Server: Alexander
LS: Serendipity
RETIRED - Red Mage 75/Bard 75/Ninja 75/Thief 75/ WHM 80 / SAM 80

#35 Dec 17 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
29 posts
Yea i edited after lol. Like i said i hadn't seen the rest of the posts yet and responded to early lmao. Again sorry Dru :)

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 12:57pm by Kindredsouls
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#36 Dec 17 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have this problem too, as well I feel the need to do it in a group. It's nice we can solo it and I wouldnt ask for them to take that option away but we really need a better grouping system/searching feature so though of us that wish to can try find a group to do it with as well.
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#37 Dec 17 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
29 posts
I do have to agree though the only thing that keeps me ranking up is the fact i limit what gear i wear and when. Also in crafting i set a goal to be able to make something new. Like my LNC, i let it sit at 16 until i could make the rank 19 acton with weaving. I make all of my own gear so if i can't make it i don't rank. Weapons wise i only buy when i pass my old weapons or tools rank and am within my 5-7 range. Same with my tools.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 1:06pm by Kindredsouls
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#38 Dec 17 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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157 posts
I don't think the gear is an issue. I like being able to wear an item because its 3 levels above me ... Starting out, it was friggin impossible to get any upgrades. Rolled with a rope belt into r19...

The penalties are quite large for wearing gear over your level. Most of the time you get 1-2 extra defense over an optimal piece, and depending on your crafting levels etc, it could be outside of your self-repair ability, or cost 20k to repair instead of a few thousand ...

Look elsewhere for issues, methinks.

The SP issue is large. Yes you can spend an entire day getting a mid level rank ... which is hardly casual ... I was warned by a friend that played Xi for years though ... beware the grind.

I have played some F2P MMOs that had an insane grind, so I was like .. meh, but holy crap, I think this game takes it all.

I presume its all scaled to one job. If you want to craft a bunch of stuff, and gather, and have a main combat class with some off-class abilities (which the game is pretty much geared towards) then the split in time means their "scale" is off by around 400% >.<

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 1:45pm by SpelunkerOne
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#39 Dec 17 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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SpelunkerOne wrote:


Look elsewhere for issues, methinks.

The SP issue is large. Yes you can spend an entire day getting a mid level rank ... which is hardly casual ... I was warned by a friend that played Xi for years though ... beware the grind.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 1:45pm by SpelunkerOne


I think grinding means different things to different people at different times.

I did grind in XI, but I also had other motives in doing so. Loot, gil, KS, BS etc. I would often take breaks and go quest or craft. Unfortunately, there is a large percentage of people that love to grind and level up everything and not really focus on quests or crafting.
____________________________
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Name: Druwillo
Server: Palamecia

FFXI
Name: Druwillo
Server: Alexander
LS: Serendipity
RETIRED - Red Mage 75/Bard 75/Ninja 75/Thief 75/ WHM 80 / SAM 80

#41 Dec 17 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
Totally agree with OP.

No motivation, nothing to look forward to. The game just feels boring.
#42 Dec 17 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Agree with OP 100%. I play MMO's to kill stuff in a party (i.e. grind).

I typically hate harvesting and crafting in MMO's but I am currently finding DoL to be the most enjoyable aspect of FFXIV in it's current state. I haven't gotten too far into DoH yet. I have zero motivation to play my DoW or DoM classes. Unless a particularly convenient battlecraft leve shows up offering huge gil / huge mark rewards, I can't even bring myself to equip a weapon because I find grinding solo / small group on low-hp mobs to be excruciatingly boring.

Not only do I have no urge to grind, I'm finding that I have less and less of an urge to log-in.....
#43 Dec 17 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,614 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
This isn't to say the party feature in FFXI was perfect but actual partying was fun and interacting with other players in a cooperative manner was actually possible.


Whatever. If I have to deal with that crap again, it doesn't really matter how fun the rest is. I don't want to be in a huge lottery anymore where you win if you have the correct job or need to spend 2+ hours partying in one sitting only because everyone knows how hard it is to actually get exp in that game.

Sugarcoat it all you want... if we can have the good sides of XI without the glaring downsides, bring it on.. But it is not realistic. Doesn't stop us from hoping, of course.


What FFXI needed, and I think eventually got through Fields of Valor and other changes, was an option to earn at least a little bit of EXP solo while you were waiting for a group. In the early days, you had no choice but to stand around in Jeuno while you were seeking, because if you went solo you were likely to die and lose more EXP than you could hope to gain. This was bullsh*t.

The later changes that made soloing viable and parties easier to get (level sync) were a perfect solution. They made solo play what it should be: a slower alternative to party play that you could choose as an occasional break.

But leveling to the cap without ever encountering another human being? Is this what "solo friendly" means? ***** that. That's no way to design an MMO.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 3:14pm by Borkachev
#44 Dec 17 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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FFXIV only has the grind and nothing else. If you don't feel like grinding you end up not playing at all... like me. Still following developments and updates but I totally agree with SE, the game is not "ready for release" in a long time to come.
#45 Dec 17 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you all for your input. This post isn't intended to be based on any abitraries and i know everyone has their own ideals, which is why this post is being discussed.

This game is new and yes it lacks content and yes it needs time to develop, but can SE afford time?
I feel the problems are being addressed out of sequence. If this game was designed for causal players why are we so bored, why was most of the new content designed for those 15-25% percent hardcore gamers that already have Rank 50's.
Grinding is the only option post rank 50 and some of us can only take it for so long, because of how tedious it can be at times *note* i'm not saying "all of us" i get that a very few of you don't mind the grind and you have your right to enjoy what you enjoy, but don't get upset that some of us don't like pineapple on our pizza haha, but the majority of us? There isn't much to do other then limited guildleves and behest.

Behest and guildeves seem like the perfect time killer while Looking For a Party and if you never got one by the end of the night, at least you'd have gotten a bit of gil and a nice xp buffer(not that we need those anymore). In ffxi even i had those days where i would LFP for hours on end, but i also have those days when its friday night and my friends are doing other things and can't hang out, or those days where im stuck in traffic for 4 hours(i live in LA).
All i'm saying is we cant abolish the fact that ffxi was the perfect example of team play and cordination, because of a few instances where we spent hours on end LFP, I agree ffxi had its flaws, but they obviously weren't that bad or those 200,000 thousand dedicated players wouldn't still be playing. I believe if the launch for ffxi wasn't so rough that number would be in the millions, lets not take years to address these dire issues like they were done in ffxi, it may be too late by then.

Maybe SE is trying to delay the majority of us from getting Rank 50, because of the lack of content. A lot of maybes exist, but are we even going to stick around till rank 50, ill try, but i don't know if my sanity will permit it.
#46 Dec 17 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with the OP.

Grinding is better solo with the SP fix, but that motivation that everyone is talking about still really isn't there.

A lot of people have touched on the obvious points and reasons why.

Gear levels and higher level gear is a strong motivator and there is none of that.

Classes are too similar. Making my PUG only marginally more fun to play than a CON.

Quests are too repetitive. A more frequent linear non-repetitive quest line would be awesome.

I feel like I've seen most of the world already.

There are no parties or no reason to party/or to work with others. A Warhammer like NM lottery system, say in Behests, would work great.

There are no rewards or good gear drops. Everything is crafted; there is nothing to lust after.


In FFXI I wanted to level up, primarily to help people; I never got to endgame. There was content like the job quests and rank missions that made you group up, run around and do stuff and, well, I liked helping, it was fun.
#47 Dec 17 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
msconduct wrote:

People like you are a F'ing cancer to MMO's, you whine and moan until you make every single game easy like WoW, please fck off.


At least WoW has content. Now go away until you've fully recovered from your lobotomy.
#48 Dec 17 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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230 posts
Aurelius wrote:
msconduct wrote:

People like you are a F'ing cancer to MMO's, you whine and moan until you make every single game easy like WoW, please fck off.


At least WoW has content. Now go away until you've fully recovered from your lobotomy.


WoWs content is pretty much the same stuff you see in every f2p. I don't hate it, but i think its vastly overrated, but thats probably because its mostly kids playing it. Its kind of like the music industry. Someone who makes a simple catchy song in a few days is more likely to sell millions whereas someone who writes technical, intricate music will only appeal to a small audience and remain underground.

AND people still need to take in to consideration that WoW Sucked serious *** when it was first released too! I played it for almost 2 months after release and I can honestly say it was way worse than XIV as far as entertainment goes. Maybe its a great game now but it sure as **** wasn't within the 1st 6 months. But then again we all have our own opinions..
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#49 Dec 17 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Default
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353 posts
I agree it seems like SE's idea of us playing in short bursts is through leves and behest. I am pretty sure they intended this.
#50 Dec 17 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
Shredmastah wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
msconduct wrote:

People like you are a F'ing cancer to MMO's, you whine and moan until you make every single game easy like WoW, please fck off.


At least WoW has content. Now go away until you've fully recovered from your lobotomy.


WoWs content is pretty much the same stuff you see in every f2p. I don't hate it, but i think its vastly overrated, but thats probably because its mostly kids playing it. Its kind of like the music industry. Someone who makes a simple catchy song in a few days is more likely to sell millions whereas someone who writes technical, intricate music will only appeal to a small audience and remain underground.

AND people still need to take in to consideration that WoW Sucked serious *** when it was first released too! I played it for almost 2 months after release and I can honestly say it was way worse than XIV as far as entertainment goes. Maybe its a great game now but it sure as **** wasn't within the 1st 6 months. But then again we all have our own opinions..


Lying is not good to make a point :)

Name me a F2P MMO that dint start out as a P2P MMO that has end content equal to WOW :)

I'll wait dont worry
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#51 Dec 17 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Shredmastah wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
msconduct wrote:

People like you are a F'ing cancer to MMO's, you whine and moan until you make every single game easy like WoW, please fck off.


At least WoW has content. Now go away until you've fully recovered from your lobotomy.


WoWs content is pretty much the same stuff you see in every f2p. I don't hate it, but i think its vastly overrated, but thats probably because its mostly kids playing it. Its kind of like the music industry. Someone who makes a simple catchy song in a few days is more likely to sell millions whereas someone who writes technical, intricate music will only appeal to a small audience and remain underground.

AND people still need to take in to consideration that WoW Sucked serious *** when it was first released too! I played it for almost 2 months after release and I can honestly say it was way worse than XIV as far as entertainment goes. Maybe its a great game now but it sure as **** wasn't within the 1st 6 months. But then again we all have our own opinions..


Lying is not good to make a point :)

Name me a F2P MMO that dint start out as a P2P MMO that has end content equal to WOW :)

I'll wait dont worry


Perfect World, China's massive attempt at cloning WoW. Dated back 2005 too.
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