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SP System is Not BrokenFollow

#1 Dec 18 2010 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Last night I got about 60k SP on Conjurer (R37 to 38) ONLY doing leves and behests. The system is not broken. People need to learn how to use the system correctly instead of complaining all the time.
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#2 Dec 18 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The SP system is broken.

Just because it's broken doesn't mean you can't get SP from it.



For clarity sake: Soloing SP is perfectly fine. Leves give a very good amount of SP, especially for solos, and it's very good how you can solo to rank yourself up.

However, party SP is bugged. It's not beneficial to party, and you will actually rank up slower by partying than by soloing. This, in an MMO, is completely contradictory to what it should be, thus comes the conclusion that the SP system is broken.
#3 Dec 18 2010 at 5:41 AM Rating: Default
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Actually doing leves in parties is way more beneficial than soloing them. I don't think party SP is broken at all. At least for leves.
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#4 Dec 18 2010 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Actually doing leves in parties is way more beneficial than soloing them. I don't think party SP is broken at all. At least for leves.


Way more beneficial?

You can 4 man a R40 one star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in ten seconds, and get 100SP/mob.

Or you can 1 man a R40 one star, get 100% of the shards, kill monsters in 20 seconds, and get 150 SP / mob.


Or you can 4 man a R40 three star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in 2 minutes, granted you don't die, and get 140SP/mob.

It's broken.
#5 Dec 18 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Or you can 4 man a R40 three star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in 2 minutes, granted you don't die, and get 140SP/mob


You are probably doing something wrong then lol

I was getting upwards of 200 SP per kill (averaging about 150 SP) on 3 stars. And the fights took less than 10 seconds. That is also without leve linking or Guardians Aspect. You need to get a balanced group as well as learn which leves are better than others. When we did the occasional link it was possible to earn at least 5-6k SP for the leve.

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#6 Dec 18 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Correct, SP is not broken at all for party play whether it's grinding on regular mobs or doing leves and behests. I'm almost 41 on my THM and I gain a lot of SP with my LS members everyday. You just have to find the right mobs to grind on. ;)
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#7namasy, Posted: Dec 18 2010 at 6:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) why you guys so noob for??
#8 Dec 18 2010 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You need to get a balanced group as well as learn which leves are better than others.


Sounds broken to me ;/
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#9 Dec 18 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Lets put it this way.

Giant world.
Leves use 25% of it max
so 75% of the world is going unused

therefore broken.

#10 Dec 18 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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SP system isn't broken if you like killing heaps of mobs in like 5 seconds each spamming one skill for the best SP

SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP
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#11 Dec 18 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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tylerbee wrote:


SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


This
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#12 Dec 18 2010 at 8:38 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


Which MMO successfully did this? XD
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#13 Dec 18 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vackashken wrote:
tylerbee wrote:


SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


This


I'll admit I've only played a few MMOs, but I've never leveled up by fighting epic battles. Those are always reserved for "end-game" item rewards or story based quests. No, leveling up always consists of either grinding easy mobs or grinding easy quests.

To actually make a system where you regularly rank up on long epic battles would be completely new and innovative. We don't want SE to innovate remember? We want the same old boring MMO fare, aka, easy mob grinding, AH, static classes, insta-crafting, etc. etc. /sarcasm
#14 Dec 18 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Meowshi wrote:
ShockTopMagic wrote:
Actually doing leves in parties is way more beneficial than soloing them. I don't think party SP is broken at all. At least for leves.


Way more beneficial?

You can 4 man a R40 one star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in ten seconds, and get 100SP/mob.

Or you can 1 man a R40 one star, get 100% of the shards, kill monsters in 20 seconds, and get 150 SP / mob.


Or you can 4 man a R40 three star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in 2 minutes, granted you don't die, and get 140SP/mob.

It's broken.


God I hate people talking stuff thats just complete and utter BS.
There are leves for Rank 40 that are way better than others(the Necro Page drop ones)
Doing those in a group is WAY MORE BENEFICIAL, than doing anything solo.
Ever tried LINKING leves, or did you miss out on that completely?

We even do Rank 30s, cause there are 2 that are still really good on Rank 40+ if you do them on 5 Star and link them.

My leve static is a group of 4 people...we try to link the really good leves as much as possible.

Short example(and this is based on facts I witnessed and done several times now)

Camp Broken Water
Leve: Necrologos: Reniene Reveries
3way linked+Guardians Aspect@ 3 stars

On Rank 40-42 EACH mob gives 350SP!! One group consists of 3 mobs, netting you around 1k SP. If you luck out on drops, you get to kill like 6-8 groups at least, if you're **** lucky on bad drops, you get to kill up to 12 groups(best we got so far)
Thats 12k on ONE LEVE right there on a group of 4 people and the leve takes you around 15minutes.
Doing this leve solo, w/o aspect nets you like 120SP per mob and takes double the time to kill...which results in like 3k if you're lucky...

And this is just one of the leves we do...to give you a sum up of what we got last night on Leves...we did 5 Leves(all 3-4 way linked plus aspect on) 3 of those are Rank 30s(and we are all 40-42), 2 of them Rank 40s. We got a total of 48k SP on 5 Leves...I repeat 48.000 SP on FIVE Leves. We usually use the "rest of our leves" for low rank jobs, since there are just these 5 leves that are really nice, all others only net like 3-4k SP max.

So before you call something broken and "grouping not being beneficial"...try it out ffs...cause you're wrong!

PS: Our record on SP on ONE leve is at 16k so far...oh **** yeah...I'd call that broken too...
People complaining about sh*t, thats not broken, only end up getting the things nerfed that are still good at this current time...so stop ********* you will only ruin it.

If you want to ***** about SP being broken, ***** about Party SP outside of Leves...cause thats where the issue is right now...but everything else is just perfectly fine!

PPS: Omg, its so funny to see people getting rated down for stating facts, that SP in leves is better if you do it in a group, rather than solo, and people complaining that leve SP is broken, get rated up...the ZAM boards really are the same they always were...pile of nubs who rather ***** about stuff, before even trying it...
Please sub default my post...cause right now its almost as giving advice to people too dumb to use the Leve system properly and I'd rather not get this spread on how leves do work fine lol

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 3:01pm by Shezard

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 3:02pm by Shezard
#15 Dec 18 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Camp Broken Water
Leve: Necrologos: Reniene Reveries
3way linked+Guardians Aspect@ 3 stars


I think our record was around 12-13k SP too

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 2:32am by ShockTopMagic
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#16 Dec 18 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Vackashken wrote:
tylerbee wrote:


SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


This


I'll admit I've only played a few MMOs, but I've never leveled up by fighting epic battles. Those are always reserved for "end-game" item rewards or story based quests. No, leveling up always consists of either grinding easy mobs or grinding easy quests.

To actually make a system where you regularly rank up on long epic battles would be completely new and innovative. We don't want SE to innovate remember? We want the same old boring MMO fare, aka, easy mob grinding, AH, static classes, insta-crafting, etc. etc. /sarcasm


Doesn't have to be epic - how about a challenge in any way whatsoever? There is no need of team play, skill(s), thought, job role... the list goes on. No one is talking about long battles. We're talking about a need to put even the most base-leve thought in party functionality when we team up together rather then "EVERYONE HIT 1 AS FAST AS YOU CAN!"

The rigidness of 11 needed to be broken. Now its just absurd.
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#17 Dec 18 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
Camp Broken Water
Leve: Necrologos: Reniene Reveries
3way linked+Guardians Aspect@ 3 stars


YES! Each reset we do this leve and then abandon it right before finishing. That way it's guaranteed that we can do it after the reset. I think our record was around 12-13k SP too


Nice to see that there are people using the system to their benefit and found out how it can work^^
We fail those leves all on purpose as well, so we can 3-4way link them every reset :)
That way we get a guaranteed 40-60k(depending) each reset on 5-6 leves max!

But we should stop spreading "knowledge", cause right now I've got the feeling most people here on the board are just not worth it <.<

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 3:11pm by Shezard
#18 Dec 18 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Vackashken wrote:
Doesn't have to be epic - how about a challenge in any way whatsoever? There is no need of team play, skill(s), thought, job role... the list goes on. No one is talking about long battles. We're talking about a need to put even the most base-leve thought in party functionality when we team up together rather then "EVERYONE HIT 1 AS FAST AS YOU CAN!"

The rigidness of 11 needed to be broken. Now its just absurd.


I agree with you. However the person I quoted specifically said "epic battles that require use of all your skills". So yes, he did say leveling should be "epic". Clearly a middle ground needs to be found.
#19 Dec 18 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Last night I got about 60k SP on Conjurer (R37 to 38) ONLY doing leves and behests. The system is not broken. People need to learn how to use the system correctly instead of complaining all the time.


Highlighted the problem. Not everyone likes to play the game solely on leves and behest.
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#20 Dec 18 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Vackashken wrote:
tylerbee wrote:


SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


This


I'll admit I've only played a few MMOs, but I've never leveled up by fighting epic battles. Those are always reserved for "end-game" item rewards or story based quests. No, leveling up always consists of either grinding easy mobs or grinding easy quests.

To actually make a system where you regularly rank up on long epic battles would be completely new and innovative. We don't want SE to innovate remember? We want the same old boring MMO fare, aka, easy mob grinding, AH, static classes, insta-crafting, etc. etc. /sarcasm


It's not new at all. It's what FFXI was like, pre-merit parties. It made partying much more interesting, you figure out a game plan with the jobs in your party, which was not difficult, but made each party a bit more unique. The parties made you want to do your job good, because messing up meant slower exp and killing everyone.

Now, you just need to have a good mage to warrior ratio, you don't need to know their skills or exact class and you are good to go. It gets boring really fast.
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#21 Dec 18 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Doesn't have to be epic - how about a challenge in any way whatsoever? There is no need of team play, skill(s), thought, job role... the list goes on. No one is talking about long battles. We're talking about a need to put even the most base-leve thought in party functionality when we team up together rather then "EVERYONE HIT 1 AS FAST AS YOU CAN!"

The rigidness of 11 needed to be broken. Now its just absurd.


I hope you don't mean it literally when you say "EVERYONE HIT 1 AS FAST AS YOU CAN!" because its not true. In fact, I'd like to know how you can do that with a party of 4-5 members doing leves along your level range on 3-5 stars. Please, share with me your party lineup, I'd like to know how my group can simplify it to such.

I have tried what ShockTopMagic suggested with my group and the numbers are about 16k/hr with mishaps and afks (although I am only a 27gla now), just have to be organized, link the correct leves and do filler behests.

The title name maybe 'strong' as the term broken is highly subjective, but ShockTopMagic is trying to move forward. That is very encouraging, please don't dowse this.


#22 Dec 18 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Exp is different when in leves. Try soloing or partying outside of leves/behest and tell us it's not broken. As it is now, there is no reason to party and no reason to fight anything conning over a green.
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#23 Dec 18 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Is it normal that at rank 21 I can solo 3 star rank 20 leves.. and get 180 SP per monster..? :/
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#24 Dec 18 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's hilarious how some people are saying it's fine when they're actually "gaming the system" by abandoning before success and only get good results on leves with broken drop rates, anyway. So, the only way to get decent SP is to abuse loopholes in the system and that's perfectly fine and people need to stop complaining? You can't even realistically keep this up without a static group, so what the ****? How can you say this is fine with a straight face?

Besides, leves are boring. Your group runs back and forth alpha striking mobs down in a matter of seconds and then you repeat the same thing over and over. Give me old school FFXI leveling any day of the week over this BS.
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#25 Dec 18 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
I think it's hilarious how some people are saying it's fine when they're actually "gaming the system" by abandoning before success and only get good results on leves with broken drop rates, anyway. So, the only way to get decent SP is to abuse loopholes in the system and that's perfectly fine and people need to stop complaining? You can't even realistically keep this up without a static group, so what the ****? How can you say this is fine with a straight face?

Besides, leves are boring. Your group runs back and forth alpha striking mobs down in a matter of seconds and then you repeat the same thing over and over. Give me old school FFXI leveling any day of the week over this BS.


Shhh all is fine in FFXIV as long as this one guy is having fun!! GAWD how dare you wish to have fun too! You would think you payed for the game or something!
#26 Dec 18 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Generally while I do agree that leves and behest in groups are the best options for SP right now, I really do not believe that the devs intended that everyone SP in this way.

From what I read, the community wants a system where SP scales according to challenge. Fighting a IT (dark red) mob should yield significantly more SP than green, being that the risks are higher. This should apply to both solo and party play outside of leves/behest. Leves and behest were intended to be a bonus on top of normal levelling up, and therefore I really do not believe it should be "THE" method for SPing.

Earlier on I just took part in a 11 man behest. We basically massacred everything in sight. There was no chance of death nor risk, and I was able to get a decent amount of SP. Did I have fun tho? Not at all.. while I welcome the generous amount of SP given, all I had to do was to attack as normal and do the occasional WS.
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#27 Dec 18 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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The official vanilla WoW strategy guide says partying is a slower way to level up than soloing, so this isn't unique to FFXIV.

However, I think that only applies to questing and grinding in the open world.

All the experienced players I know level up their alts by grouping and running instances.
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#28 Dec 18 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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So how long did it take you to get 60k SP at an average of 150 SP a kill?
#29 Dec 18 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
I actually tried it last night with my bro, and fightinh against difficult enemies isn't worth it. They give more exp but they take too much time to kill. Best way to "grind" exp is by killing weak blue/green enemies without a break - as I call it the 24/7 behest - but you have to find a spot with a lot of mobs depending on your speed (around 6 should be fine).
#30 Dec 18 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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its not broken. Its working fine. you get slightly more SP for killing harder mobs. You get a small group bonus for partying, but then its still divided among members. You kill stuff, you get SP, and you level up. It works fine. But its a crappy SP system and it encourages and rewards boring repetitive play.
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#31 Dec 18 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


Which MMO successfully did this? XD


FFXI before it got crap. Party leveling and utilizing magic burst and XP chain against tough mobs was a challenge and the best players with the best group makeups got the best XP.

Hydragyrum wrote:
Vackashken wrote:
tylerbee wrote:


SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP


This


I'll admit I've only played a few MMOs, but I've never leveled up by fighting epic battles. Those are always reserved for "end-game" item rewards or story based quests. No, leveling up always consists of either grinding easy mobs or grinding easy quests.

To actually make a system where you regularly rank up on long epic battles would be completely new and innovative. We don't want SE to innovate remember? We want the same old boring MMO fare, aka, easy mob grinding, AH, static classes, insta-crafting, etc. etc. /sarcasm


See as above ^^

The battles weren't epic because of the mob you were fighting against, they were epic because of using all your skills and abilities, magic bursts and skill chains. The reason why this was possible is the mob took a few minutes to die and you'd have time to do this. So instead of fighting like 5 small mobs, you'd fight 1 small mob, but it'd reward you better and the gameplay would be entertaining.

I was chomping at the bit when I heard this game was coming out, but since the battle system blows it ain't worth playing right now.
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#32 Dec 18 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Besides, leves are boring. Your group runs back and forth alpha striking mobs down in a matter of seconds and then you repeat the same thing over and over. Give me old school FFXI leveling any day of the week over this BS.


Leves are boring and fighting the same one monster over and over using the exact same strategy isn't? LOL


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP

Which MMO successfully did this? XD
FFXI before it got crap. Party leveling and utilizing magic burst and XP chain against tough mobs was a challenge and the best players with the best group makeups got the best XP.


A challenge? Healers healed. Thanks tanked. Support supported. DDs dealt damage. It was the simplest and most monotonous thing ever (not that any MMO including XIV is immune to this). The basics of every party were the same. At least in leves you are forced to fight multiple enemies at once, and each situation does require different strategies. Different leves themselves require different strategies independent from just killing the monsters (ie which order to fight the monsters, when to spawn/run/separate larger groups of enemies).

XIV is not XI. It is a new game with it's own unique way to play and progress.
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#33 Dec 18 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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This thread gives me dejavu of when the game first came out and everyone had a whine about how broken the skill point system was. Then something happened, some people that did more killing and less whining figured out what mobs gave best xp/sp ratio and the word spread. Then SE changed the skillpoint system to make it better and now we have people crying again and there's someone out there... killing... grinding... finding the best things to skill up on...
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#34 Dec 18 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:

Leves are boring and fighting the same one monster over and over using the exact same strategy isn't? LOL

It's a lot more enjoyable than leves, at least. FFXI leveling had better pacing, more group effort and the need to use your full ******** That one monster was infinitely more interesting than leve mobs who have too little HP to survive past a few hits, yet two-shot you if you up the difficulty too much.


Quote:

A challenge? Healers healed. Thanks tanked. Support supported. DDs dealt damage. It was the simplest and most monotonous thing ever (not that any MMO including XIV is immune to this). The basics of every party were the same. At least in leves you are forced to fight multiple enemies at once, and each situation does require different strategies. Different leves themselves require different strategies independent from just killing the monsters (ie which order to fight the monsters, when to spawn/run/separate larger groups of enemies).

XIV is not XI. It is a new game with it's own unique way to play and progress.

First of all, multi-target fights in FFXIV absolutely blow because targeting is still even worse than in FFXI. By the time you cycle to the desired target it's probably already dead because it had no HP to begin with and the archer two-shot it. There is no CC whatsoever so you can't take on multiple tough targets, only tiny weaklings who you can burn down before they do the same to you. Secondly, the only strategy you'll need is to zerg down the imp before it one-shots your entire group.


Edited, Dec 18th 2010 4:08pm by Omena
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#35 Dec 18 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Last night I got about 60k SP on Conjurer (R37 to 38) ONLY doing leves and behests. The system is not broken. People need to learn how to use the system correctly instead of complaining all the time.


Well you said it, sp isn't broken when you're doing leves and behest but what about after you're done those and you just wanna party grind?
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#36 Dec 18 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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fallout386 wrote:
This thread gives me dejavu of when the game first came out and everyone had a whine about how broken the skill point system was. Then something happened, some people that did more killing and less whining figured out what mobs gave best xp/sp ratio and the word spread. Then SE changed the skillpoint system to make it better and now we have people crying again and there's someone out there... killing... grinding... finding the best things to skill up on...


This. People just need to explore a bit more. The mobs that give good SP are out there.
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#37 Dec 18 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
Camp Broken Water
Leve: Necrologos: Reniene Reveries
3way linked+Guardians Aspect@ 3 stars


YES! Each reset we do this leve and then abandon it right before finishing. That way it's guaranteed that we can do it after the reset. I think our record was around 12-13k SP too


I don't understand that when you make the statement that the SP System is Not Broken, you still have the need to cheat the system. If you can't do things the normal way, doesn't that actually imply that things are NOT okay?
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#38 Dec 18 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
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I don't understand that when you make the statement that the SP System is Not Broken, you still have the need to cheat the system. If you can't do things the normal way, doesn't that actually imply that things are NOT okay?


HAVE to 'cheat' the system? No, that's just an extra. I also don't consider it cheating.

Also people play differently. The normal way for you is not necessarily the normal for me.
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#39 Dec 18 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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where the **** are you guys seeing parties?
im a 22 THM and i dont see any anywhere, plus, i need what... 65k to level and im getting 100-250 sp a mob (half the time i end up only being able to kill three or four mobs because the target mobs appear and almost rape me), how the **** am i supposed to level that off 8 leves and no one in site willing to party?

behest is an hourly guildleve that i have to share, again how am i supposed to level like this?
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#40 Dec 18 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Based on your own argument, the old SP system was in fact not broken. People should have learnt on how to use the old SP system correctly, those that did have reached r50 way too earlier for SE taste and they are the living proof that the old SP system was in no way broken. See?
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#41 Dec 18 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Quote:
Besides, leves are boring. Your group runs back and forth alpha striking mobs down in a matter of seconds and then you repeat the same thing over and over. Give me old school FFXI leveling any day of the week over this BS.


Leves are boring and fighting the same one monster over and over using the exact same strategy isn't? LOL


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
SP system is broken if you like epic battles with tough monsters that die in like 2 minutes where you use all your skills for the best SP

Which MMO successfully did this? XD
FFXI before it got crap. Party leveling and utilizing magic burst and XP chain against tough mobs was a challenge and the best players with the best group makeups got the best XP.


A challenge? Healers healed. Thanks tanked. Support supported. DDs dealt damage. It was the simplest and most monotonous thing ever (not that any MMO including XIV is immune to this). The basics of every party were the same. At least in leves you are forced to fight multiple enemies at once, and each situation does require different strategies. Different leves themselves require different strategies independent from just killing the monsters (ie which order to fight the monsters, when to spawn/run/separate larger groups of enemies).

XIV is not XI. It is a new game with it's own unique way to play and progress.


Keep dreaming champ. Leves are boring and combat doesn't hold a candle to old XI.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 8:09pm by tylerbee
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#42 Dec 18 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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KaineGestalt wrote:
Is it normal that at rank 21 I can solo 3 star rank 20 leves.. and get 180 SP per monster..? :/


Ya, that's normal for most classes, it really depends on class and leve if you want to go higher. So don't worry if you think it's too weak, you can't compare doing 4/5 star R10 ones at R11. I've only had archer do more than 3 star at r20/21 and on certain leve too.

ShockTopMagic wrote:
A challenge? Healers healed. Thanks tanked. Support supported. DDs dealt damage. It was the simplest and most monotonous thing ever (not that any MMO including XIV is immune to this). The basics of every party were the same. At least in leves you are forced to fight multiple enemies at once, and each situation does require different strategies. Different leves themselves require different strategies independent from just killing the monsters (ie which order to fight the monsters, when to spawn/run/separate larger groups of enemies).

XIV is not XI. It is a new game with it's own unique way to play and progress.


I totally disagree with it being simplest and monotonous. How was FFXI simplest when today's FFXIV is much less?

The challenge isn't who does the healing, tanking or damage. The challenge is killing the higher leveled monster that could easily kill the party if you done things wrong. Each type of monster required different plans to fight.

In FFXIV fights:

Mages
-required better enmity control, choosing regen or cure
-cast silena, paralyna, stona, erase
-know what to stun
-know what to dispel
-sleeping adds

DD
-pulling monster
-setting up SATA
-setting up skilchain

Tanks
-position monster so it won't aoe or hit mages
-setting up SATA
-add control

There was a learning curve on how to get things done. You can't call this simplest at all. Currently in FFXIV, it's mindless and truly simplist.


The only challenge now is, getting new players in Behest to hit RED claimed monster. By default, the chat filter is terrible, no one reads the chat logs.
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#43 Dec 18 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Default
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214 posts
Quote:
I totally disagree with it being simplest and monotonous. How was FFXI simplest when today's FFXIV is much less?

The challenge isn't who does the healing, tanking or damage. The challenge is killing the higher leveled monster that could easily kill the party if you done things wrong. Each type of monster required different plans to fight.

In FFXIV fights:

Mages
-required better enmity control, choosing regen or cure
-cast silena, paralyna, stona, erase
-know what to stun
-know what to dispel
-sleeping adds

DD
-pulling monster
-setting up SATA
-setting up skilchain

Tanks
-position monster so it won't aoe or hit mages
-setting up SATA
-add control

There was a learning curve on how to get things done. You can't call this simplest at all. Currently in FFXIV, it's mindless and truly simplist.


Maybe I worded this wrong but what I meant was that even XI was simple and monotonous.. Not that it was more so than non-leve/behest parties in XIV.

Sure there were a few more things to consider during a fight in XI, but honestly it wasn't that hard. You repeated the same routine monster after monster for sometimes 5 or 10 levels in a row. Sure different monsters had slightly different strategies too, but often the same monster type would show up again and again.

I fell asleep out of boredom sometimes.
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#45 Dec 18 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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74 posts
ShockTopMagic wrote:

Maybe I worded this wrong but what I meant was that even XI was simple and monotonous.. Not that it was more so than non-leve/behest parties in XIV.

Sure there were a few more things to consider during a fight in XI, but honestly it wasn't that hard. You repeated the same routine monster after monster for sometimes 5 or 10 levels in a row. Sure different monsters had slightly different strategies too, but often the same monster type would show up again and again.

I fell asleep out of boredom sometimes.


These skill and ability uses and differences changes the game play in a lower level party and a high level party. There was a difference. Now R10 party and R50 is exactly the same.

A few more things to consider is way better than nothing to consider. That's what a game is, you plan and execute till you win. Now, there is nothing to plan in SP parties, you just run around an area and bash everything in sight. It's like mopping the floor, no brain required.
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#46 Dec 18 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
Shredmastah wrote:
ShockTopMagic wrote:
Last night I got about 60k SP on Conjurer (R37 to 38) ONLY doing leves and behests. The system is not broken. People need to learn how to use the system correctly instead of complaining all the time.


Highlighted the problem. Not everyone likes to play the game solely on leves and behest.


Every game rewards some kind of play and penalizes others.

Some people may have wanted to play DRK/SMN in FFXI - but guess what - you'd have to solo if you played that way.

Want to play DRK/SMN and don't want to solo? Oh well. Too bad. Want to play DRK/SMN and solo anything worth any exp? Too bad!

That's the way games are. There is always a "better" way to play. You don't have to play that way but then you don't get the rewards of playing in an optimal fashion.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#47 Dec 18 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,526 posts
SolidMack wrote:
ShockTopMagic wrote:
Last night I got about 60k SP on Conjurer (R37 to 38) ONLY doing leves and behests. The system is not broken. People need to learn how to use the system correctly instead of complaining all the time.


Well you said it, sp isn't broken when you're doing leves and behest but what about after you're done those and you just wanna party grind?


Who has time to party grind? I got people out there willing to pay for every fish I pull outta the water. I barely have time for any leves.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#48 Dec 18 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
43 posts
Shezard wrote:
Meowshi wrote:
ShockTopMagic wrote:
Actually doing leves in parties is way more beneficial than soloing them. I don't think party SP is broken at all. At least for leves.


Way more beneficial?

You can 4 man a R40 one star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in ten seconds, and get 100SP/mob.

Or you can 1 man a R40 one star, get 100% of the shards, kill monsters in 20 seconds, and get 150 SP / mob.


Or you can 4 man a R40 three star, get 1/6 the shards, kill monsters in 2 minutes, granted you don't die, and get 140SP/mob.

It's broken.


God I hate people talking stuff thats just complete and utter BS.
There are leves for Rank 40 that are way better than others(the Necro Page drop ones)
Doing those in a group is WAY MORE BENEFICIAL, than doing anything solo.
Ever tried LINKING leves, or did you miss out on that completely?

We even do Rank 30s, cause there are 2 that are still really good on Rank 40+ if you do them on 5 Star and link them.

My leve static is a group of 4 people...we try to link the really good leves as much as possible.

Short example(and this is based on facts I witnessed and done several times now)

Camp Broken Water
Leve: Necrologos: Reniene Reveries
3way linked+Guardians Aspect@ 3 stars

On Rank 40-42 EACH mob gives 350SP!! One group consists of 3 mobs, netting you around 1k SP. If you luck out on drops, you get to kill like 6-8 groups at least, if you're **** lucky on bad drops, you get to kill up to 12 groups(best we got so far)
Thats 12k on ONE LEVE right there on a group of 4 people and the leve takes you around 15minutes.
Doing this leve solo, w/o aspect nets you like 120SP per mob and takes double the time to kill...which results in like 3k if you're lucky...

And this is just one of the leves we do...to give you a sum up of what we got last night on Leves...we did 5 Leves(all 3-4 way linked plus aspect on) 3 of those are Rank 30s(and we are all 40-42), 2 of them Rank 40s. We got a total of 48k SP on 5 Leves...I repeat 48.000 SP on FIVE Leves. We usually use the "rest of our leves" for low rank jobs, since there are just these 5 leves that are really nice, all others only net like 3-4k SP max.

So before you call something broken and "grouping not being beneficial"...try it out ffs...cause you're wrong!

PS: Our record on SP on ONE leve is at 16k so far...oh **** yeah...I'd call that broken too...
People complaining about sh*t, thats not broken, only end up getting the things nerfed that are still good at this current time...so stop ********* you will only ruin it.

If you want to ***** about SP being broken, ***** about Party SP outside of Leves...cause thats where the issue is right now...but everything else is just perfectly fine!

PPS: Omg, its so funny to see people getting rated down for stating facts, that SP in leves is better if you do it in a group, rather than solo, and people complaining that leve SP is broken, get rated up...the ZAM boards really are the same they always were...pile of nubs who rather ***** about stuff, before even trying it...
Please sub default my post...cause right now its almost as giving advice to people too dumb to use the Leve system properly and I'd rather not get this spread on how leves do work fine lol

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 3:01pm by Shezard

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 3:02pm by Shezard

Here is the hitch, most of us are talking about non leeve or behest grinding when we say the sp is broken. Very true you can do good exp in leeves as long as they are there but..... they only last so long so between we want a fix on grind parties. Not to take away your fun but add to mine. Leeves are so boring that we link every possible one and hurry to catch behests so we get 4 leeves and a behest a hour and in 3 hours all done. That leaves me way to much down time, I would like to use that in grinding parties as well as crafting etc. I am not attacking the people that love leeves and behest leveling, only asking for more alternitives to keep a little spice in the game.
Thanks for your time,
Big Jer
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#49 Dec 18 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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72 posts
Quote:
Keep dreaming champ. Leves are boring and combat doesn't hold a candle to old XI.


I disagree with your opinion. Having read most of the posts here, people just want to kill something hard AND get appropriate SP for it. They want something close to ff11.

ff14 changes the difficulty to a mini objective of clearing semi-difficult mob groups in an area, suddenly its boring? It rewards you for increasing the difficulty of the leve comparatively to your level. Instead of the target being 1 big Incredibly Tough monster, it becomes 1 Incredibly Tough Leve objective with timers put in it.

Killing 1 big monster at a time is very easy and it forces all players in the party into fixed roles. Killing multiple monsters with a party is harder, because the roles jumble up, crowd control becomes difficult, having a good selection of emergency abilities become important, team work and coordination is crucial.

e.g. My party of lvl 27s (gla, arc, con, pgl) try a 4star leve at nophica wells killing gnats. Trying to position so the lightning bolt don't skewer more than 1 person, preventing them from casting shock spikes, etc. is quite challenging to me.


Quote:
And the only reason you don't fall asleep in FFXIV is because you are constantly mashing 1 over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.


msconduct I'd like you to show me an example where this is the case if you'd care to. The statement is not true for leves.

That might be the case if you over level the leve. Again I'd like to ask if you ever tried a leve that is slightly above our level range and 3-5stars. (e.g. doing a 4-5star lvl 20 leve as a lvl 21-23)

As a tank I'll tell you it isn't that easy to keep aggro on 3 monsters that kills party members in 3-5 hits, and definitely not 1 button mashing.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that the leves reset every 36hrs and (e.g. clearing 4-6 leves in 1 area and 2-3 behests) can easily take up 1 evening (will be faster if your group is already a cohesive team.) approximately 2.5-4hrs. getting you close to 50kish sp, more if you're good at it.

Every 36hrs, take away sleep time of 10hrs... that is 20+% of your waking hours in 36hrs to get 50k sp in a semi-challenging way. Yes, I agree sp system can be improved in different ways out of leves, but what is broken about it now through a leve system other than the fact it does not allow players to be overly hardcore?


#50 Dec 18 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Excellent
16 posts
Honestly, subscriptions are down. Imagine how behests, and camps would look if the game was booming? Only 15 people to a behest. That and leves should not be the only option. I'm not saying its not amazing sp, but I just cannot understand why people think there should be just one way of leveling. I say allow party grinds, and for the people who want to do leve/behest allow that too. What would be the horror in having both? This would alleviate a lot of congestion, and partying issues with behests.
#51 Dec 18 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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322 posts
renmabiao wrote:
Quote:
Keep dreaming champ. Leves are boring and combat doesn't hold a candle to old XI.


I disagree with your opinion. Having read most of the posts here, people just want to kill something hard AND get appropriate SP for it. They want something close to ff11.

ff14 changes the difficulty to a mini objective of clearing semi-difficult mob groups in an area, suddenly its boring? It rewards you for increasing the difficulty of the leve comparatively to your level. Instead of the target being 1 big Incredibly Tough monster, it becomes 1 Incredibly Tough Leve objective with timers put in it.

Killing 1 big monster at a time is very easy and it forces all players in the party into fixed roles. Killing multiple monsters with a party is harder, because the roles jumble up, crowd control becomes difficult, having a good selection of emergency abilities become important, team work and coordination is crucial.

e.g. My party of lvl 27s (gla, arc, con, pgl) try a 4star leve at nophica wells killing gnats. Trying to position so the lightning bolt don't skewer more than 1 person, preventing them from casting shock spikes, etc. is quite challenging to me.


Quote:
And the only reason you don't fall asleep in FFXIV is because you are constantly mashing 1 over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.


msconduct I'd like you to show me an example where this is the case if you'd care to. The statement is not true for leves.

That might be the case if you over level the leve. Again I'd like to ask if you ever tried a leve that is slightly above our level range and 3-5stars. (e.g. doing a 4-5star lvl 20 leve as a lvl 21-23)

As a tank I'll tell you it isn't that easy to keep aggro on 3 monsters that kills party members in 3-5 hits, and definitely not 1 button mashing.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that the leves reset every 36hrs and (e.g. clearing 4-6 leves in 1 area and 2-3 behests) can easily take up 1 evening (will be faster if your group is already a cohesive team.) approximately 2.5-4hrs. getting you close to 50kish sp, more if you're good at it.

Every 36hrs, take away sleep time of 10hrs... that is 20+% of your waking hours in 36hrs to get 50k sp in a semi-challenging way. Yes, I agree sp system can be improved in different ways out of leves, but what is broken about it now through a leve system other than the fact it does not allow players to be overly hardcore?




Those mechanics you're talking about aren't intended to be doable I believe. There is no way in **** you can do that kind of thing on a controller. If they expect me to be locking off, locking on, switching targets and so on with a controller and the current control scheme, combat system and enmity system they are dreaming. It is impossible to AOE tank at level 28 Glad and I say that with certainty. There is no "CC" yet either, there are a few movement slows and that is it.

Sloppy combat mechanics and enmity charts do not make a challenge i'm afraid.

PS: The star system is screwed, difficulty ramps up exponentially instead of cohesively and it really is one big joke - adding to the failure that is "leves".

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