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Food - Do You Buy It? Why or why not?Follow

#1 Dec 18 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a player who is investing his time and gil heavily into cooking, I am curious what the current player base's attitude is towards food buffs. I have been having a very hard time selling the food I make. I have tried selling everything from crafting, gathering, attack, accuracy, magic, and everything in between. When I look at YG, I see that my server's average prices of food fall significantly under those of the global average. I price my food very reasonably, usually barely above cost, and keep my bazaar updated on YG, but still have problems selling.

For those who don't know, food effects last for 30 minutes and make a very noticeable effect. It is also important to eat food that is rank appropriate in order to receive benefit from it. For example, drinking distilled water as a rank 20+ crafter is not going to help you anywhere near as much as pineapple juice or apple juice.

So in an effort to meet the needs of the players, I pose the following questions to you:

1. Do you currently buy food for personal use? Why or why not?
2. If you do purchase food, what foods effects are you seeking?
3. If you do purchase food, do you make an effort to go out and restock when you are running low?
4. If you do purchase food, where do you shop for it? The Grociers ward? Battlecraft ward? Personal bazaars?
5. If you don't purchase food, what specifically causes this? Pricing? Lack of information about food effects? Lack of availability?

Thank you in advance for any constructive information.

P.S. If you have any questions about food and it's effects, I will be more than happy to answer them in an effort to dispel the wide amount of misinformation currently running rampant in the community.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 5:26pm by CannonDub
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#2 Dec 18 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice post. Rate up. In general, I think food doesn't sell mostly because of lack of education and lack of effect. Sure, the effect might be noticable, but nominally, +2 craftmanship e.g. doesn't sound like a whole lot.


Quote:
1. Do you currently buy food for personal use? Why or why not?

Hardly ever. Enough "raw" food drops that I munch up while in the field. While crafting, distilled water is easily made by ALC, and I typically use master facilities whenever doing a crafting session. Only if I'm anxious to acquire an item for my own use will I seek to buy a better craft buff food. I'm not R50, so I don't care for battle buffs at this time.

Quote:
2. If you do purchase food, what foods effects are you seeking?

Craft buffs only.

Quote:
3. If you do purchase food, do you make an effort to go out and restock when you are running low?

Never - I buy based upon my anticipated needs upfront.

Quote:
4. If you do purchase food, where do you shop for it? The Grociers ward? Battlecraft ward? Personal bazaars?

Grocers ward, personal bazaar, shout in city, /tell to friends who are Chefs.

Quote:
5. If you don't purchase food, what specifically causes this? Pricing? Lack of information about food effects? Lack of availability?

Lack of a need.
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#3 Dec 18 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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I've had more than my share of grinding on FFXIV and I'm sad to say I've never eaten any food at all (unless you count the raptor shanks I used to get in raptor parties!). Back in FFXI I always had food for any job I was playing. It's pretty obvious to me why I don't touch it in 14 though...

- I personally avoid the Market Wards at all costs. It's too much of a time sink I'm not willing to put in.
- Food isn't widely used in 14 so you can't just copy everyone else cause most people don't bother with it either. (Even if they did I would still have to hunt the god **** Wards)
- The effects are confusing to me, I don't understand how or why there are optimal ranks on different foods, and I'm not aware of the effects for the more desirable ones.

Unfortunately the combination of these issues (and for many others I imagine) just makes me not care at all. Before you invest anymore time into Cooking you may want to consider that this trend is probably going to stick around for a while to come. Cooking can be a very fruitless craft to pursue :(
#4 Dec 18 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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There is no incentive to go the extra mile, so no, I never buy food.
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#5 Dec 18 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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In FF11, optimal exp gain required you to "reach" to the very hardest mobs you could possibly take on as a six-man party. It was essential to grab every buff you could, because you weren't just trying to get a little better, you were trying to "close the gap" that let you take on an "incredibly tough" mob (or, if you were unlucky, "incredibly tough"+!) The penalties for failure were tremendous, so it was worth putting a lot of resources into making sure you kicked exactly as much *** as possible.

In FF14, not so much. The variety of effects is a lot greater, but food's impact is a lot harder to gauge, because it doesn't always appear on the visible statistics. For example, CannonDub, you're claiming that food effects are based on optimal rank and that when you're significantly over the level of a given food, it doesn't have as much effect... but is that, in fact, true? I don't know!

Actually, to heck with this. I'mma find out. Give me a few minutes here...
#6 Dec 18 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Food is based off of optimal rank. As optimal rank increases, the stats used to make it Tasty / Delicious / Divine increases. So if you have rank 1 distilled water, the "sweet spot" might be (These are purely hypothetical numbesr) 12 dex. With Rank 50 distilled water, the sweet spot will be 120 dex. That sort of thing.

There's a complete list at
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fff14fan.haru.gs%2Fdb%2Fdb_item_main.php&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8


That said:

1. Yes. I buy Miqo'tebobs (and would buy pineapple juice if I didn't make it myself) for accuracy and craftsmanship respectively. There's nothing wrong with min-maxing.
2. Preferably Accuracy (I use lances, High atk, low Acc, so I still have really atrocious accuracy), and either Mag craft or craftsmanship.
3. Yes.
4. Grociers Ward pre-patch. Haven't done any shipping since, but I'd imagine it'd be the same.
#7 Dec 18 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, confirmed that the crafting bonuses don't appear on the stats menu. So... it's kind of, how would you know?



#8 Dec 18 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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For anyone using the link above, I am familiar with the source site that information comes from. It is a JP site about food effects. I will go ahead and link it here:

Native JP: Link
Google EN Translation: Link

I want to clarify something for anyone who may be confused by the poor translation Google offers:

Tues -> Fire
Wed -> Water
Sat -> Earth

I will also offer a few tips to help understand the site:

- To achieve optimal food effect, character fitness level (stat allocation) must match the requirements of the corresponding food.
- Fitness Capability - Optimal physical stat (STR, DEX, etc) of the food
- Fitness Attributed - Optimal element stat (Wind, Fire, etc) of the food
- There are 4 possible "levels" of buff food can give: Delicious, Tasty, Divine, and Standard (no message aside from the action of consuming)
- Delicious - Fitness Capability or Fitness Attribute is ± 3 - 5
- Tasty - Fitness Capability or Fitness Attribute is ± 2
- Divine - BOTH fitness capability and Fitness attribute is ± 5
- The additional effects offered by divine, tasty, and delicious are still unknown, however divine is the maximum effect a food can give.

HOW TO DETERMINE OPTIMAL STATS OF A FOOD:
Fitness Capability: food rank x 1.3 + 12
Fitness Attributes: food rank + 10

EXAMPLE:
Apple Juice
Rank: 32
Fitness Capability: MND 54
Fitness Attribute: Water 42

Meaning that in order to obtain:
Divine result - Player's MND must be 49~59 AND water resist must be 37~47
Tasty result - Players MND must be 52~56 OR water resist must be 40~44
Delicious result - Player's MND must be 49~59 OR water resist must be 37~47


Edited, Dec 18th 2010 6:15pm by CannonDub
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#9 Dec 18 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't use food. I don't think it has any noticeable effect, and I don't feel there is any content where 5 attack will make or break a fight.
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#10 Dec 18 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't buy it. I have no idea what it does, how it affects me or if it's even worth the money. Even if I did want to purchase some I'd have to navigate the wards looking for it, all the while knowing that almost no one actually sets up their retainers in the right ward.
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#11 Dec 18 2010 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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No - and this issue really needs to be addressed. Simply put, people don't know what food does other than give you a full belly buff. Additional stats from food NEED to be shown on the character screen. In FFXI food effects were very clear and you could see how much attack or str or MP eating a certain piece of food gave. Even if the food only gave 5 attack which increased your damage by 1, I can imagine people would still buy and use it because the player can clearly see that yes, this food boosts this stat.
#12 Dec 18 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Redscare wrote:
No - and this issue really needs to be addressed. Simply put, people don't know what food does other than give you a full belly buff. Additional stats from food NEED to be shown on the character screen. In FFXI food effects were very clear and you could see how much attack or str or MP eating a certain piece of food gave. Even if the food only gave 5 attack which increased your damage by 1, I can imagine people would still buy and use it because the player can clearly see that yes, this food boosts this stat.

In FFXI there was also an incentive to perform well because the success of the PT depended on everyone doing their best. Not so in FFXIV.
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#13 Dec 18 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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1. No, it doesn't seem like it's necessary, I don't have problems in fight or crafts.
2. I'm all for DD food, if I buy it will be for attack or accuracy, but using food on too weak monsters that we SP on is pointless.
3. If SP parties were like FFXI, I always keep 2-3 stacks in my inventory
4. If I buy I would go YG first, find the cheapest one in my city, if I can't find I will search grociers ward and then give up
5. It will be pricing vs effects, but effect is not shown to us. If it's truly just 5 attack for 2k gils and not 5% attack or more, I probably wouldn't use regularly.
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#14 Dec 18 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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I am a cook and I don't even use food except for when I get tired of it taking up space in my inventory. It is difficult to tell what bonuses it gives, and to be honest, after eating some of my own cooking and comparing my damage as a Pugilist, I can't see any significant increase, or at least not one that would warrant someone paying for food. Also, the recipes are ridiculously complex, making it difficult to level and impractical to cook food at all. At least with other crafts, the pre-materials are largely variations of 2 or 3 basic raw ingredients, but with cooking it often requires 5-8 different ingredients, many of which are difficult to come by. Case in point, Black Pepper is required in 18 different recipes, but is only dropped by high level mobs, and can only be bought from an npc for 3k a piece. As you can tell, I am very frustrated with cooking in general, and I really wish SE would simplify the recipes, because I really want to level the craft and cook for myself and my friends.
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#15 Dec 19 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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CUL currently sucks. The recipes are either absurdly boring or overly complex - the stat buffs are too unnoticable or hard to figure out, and the average player has no idea what it costs to buy all those mats from the npc (which are so hard to find from other players) so they aren't willing to even pay cost for the food.

As a cook it isn't worth my time trying to farm all that weird crap because even if I sell my food for nothing people don't even want it ******** up their inventory space.

I only skill up CUL cause I have the mats and a soft spot for it from XI. I like using +gathering food because it is more noticeable than any other stat I've buffed. I also like +control food. I never noticed much improvement using mage food - evasion food did seem to work.

I mean seriously people don't even buy potions which they can see work immediately. I almost feel like I am burdening people when I give them pots (even though I think they are pretty darn cool and they helped me finish some too tough leves before the star adjustment feature) - so I feel even less helpful giving away food. Selling it... well yeah, nevermind that.

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#16 Dec 19 2010 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I've been popping boiled eggs since i started culinary, it's just too random to count on food in this game or some hard to ingredient to complete a recipe.Stats not showing is a real killer too.
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#17 Dec 19 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Default
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I don't buy food currently and the reasons why have been said already, stats given are too low, unlike XI where party performance was a big thing to strive for it's far less important in XIV for a number of reasons, wards are ****, etc.

What really kills me however is every single food item has a little blurb about it. For example:

Aldgoat Steak
"A traditional dish of the Highland Hyur consisting of a thick cut of aldgoat chuck charred over an open flame."

Grilled Carp
"A plump maiden carp sprinkled with salt and grilled to perfection."

Who cares about this stuff? How about just tossing all that backstory away and putting the stats and important info people actually care about in their place? They have to think this stuff up for every single food item and then translate it into how many different languages? It is a complete waste of effort. Put the stats in the description instead of that stuff and it would instantly make things a lot easier for people buying the food and the crafters making it. There's no fun involved in guessing what a food does and having to look up on other sites to see if anyone has figured it out. Even if some people do find it fun it causes inconviences for far more people.
#18 Dec 19 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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AvatarexADV wrote:
In FF11, optimal exp gain required you to "reach" to the very hardest mobs you could possibly take on as a six-man party. It was essential to grab every buff you could, because you weren't just trying to get a little better, you were trying to "close the gap" that let you take on an "incredibly tough" mob (or, if you were unlucky, "incredibly tough"+!) The penalties for failure were tremendous, so it was worth putting a lot of resources into making sure you kicked exactly as much *** as possible.


Exactly this. I'd like to write more so i'm not simply reposting a good point but I honestly couldn't have said it any better. I think this applies to a lot more than just food in ffxiv.
#19 Dec 19 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Good
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No, but that's mainly because I hardly ever see it, and I'm still uncertain of what various foods do and how much they help. This game is still very young, and SE gives us next to no information about food at all. If SE wants food to be taken seriously, at least in the early months/years of this game before we've got everything figured out, they need to list the optimal rank and stats on the food itself. If people see, for example, "accuracy+15% dex+5" or "craftsmanship+5 control+5" on a specific food, they'll immediately know whether it can help them and they'll be much more likely to buy it.

We're not forced to test dozens of generic looking weapons, for example, in order to find out which ranks they're good at, what their accuracy is, or what their attack is. When you look at a weapon in game, you can see its optimal rank and its stats listed on the weapon itself. Buying weapons is easy and intuitive. To buy food, we're expected to do all the testing ourselves to find this information, and then anyone who buys food needs to try to hunt down the testing or a database online in order to tell them what they should be using. Considering how much effort that takes for something that's completely optional, it's not difficult to see why it's ignored by nearly everyone. If SE wants food to be taken seriously, at least in the early stages of the game before extensive testing has been done and made widely available to the majority of the player base, they need to let people know what it does like they do for every weapon, tool, or any other piece of equipment that you can buy in this game.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 2:33am by Susanoh
#20 Dec 19 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Its the wards that kill it. I could find out which food I needed easy enough and realise there is a benefit, but then I have to deal with the wards, and YG is wrong so often I've not bothered any more

I even levelled culinarian as a secondary to food only to see the stupid number of ingredient requirements. I got cooking to 100 on FFXI, I wont be entertaining that on XIV.
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#21 Dec 19 2010 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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It is worth leveling cul to make bait, however.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#22 Dec 19 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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most of the effects of food are hidden and dont show up in the attributes pages so people dont think their food has any effect. grilled carp is nice for melee it adds dexterity thats what i use
#23 Dec 19 2010 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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They should make it if you haven't eaten in 24 hours your health bar starts to deplete until you die :3
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#24 Dec 19 2010 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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You know u could look at this in a positive way:

There's probably not many chefs out there right now simply because of all the reasons stated above. Im a chef too, and although no one is buying right now, i do believe that will change. In FF11, food was very important (because people knew what the stats were) but at the start that wasnt really the case. I remember it took a while before people started getting interested in food, and once they did, everyone ate food all the time. Right now FF14 doesnt have any difficult challenges which i thing will get people to start buying (as well as stat info and upgrades to the retainer system). My advice is to stick with it, just because it's such an advantage to be high leveled in a craft that not many people do.
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#25 Dec 19 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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CannonDub wrote:
1. Do you currently buy food for personal use? Why or why not?

No. Before the extra retainer, I simply could not spare any slots for food. I'm amenable to using food buffs now, I just haven't gotten around to researching.

CannonDub wrote:
2. If you do purchase food, what foods effects are you seeking?

Anything to help synth success primarily. A running speed food buff would be nice but I don't think that even exists.

CannonDub wrote:
3. If you do purchase food, do you make an effort to go out and restock when you are running low?

I wouldn't go out of my way. I'd just restock if I was in a city and had the time.

CannonDub wrote:
4. If you do purchase food, where do you shop for it? The Grociers ward? Battlecraft ward? Personal bazaars?

I would head straight to the appropriate market ward and use the soon-to-be-implemented search function. *taps foot impatiently*

CannonDub wrote:
5. If you don't purchase food, what specifically causes this? Pricing? Lack of information about food effects? Lack of availability?

As demonstrated by your previous reply containing a link to a translated page, we currently have to rely on external systems to understand the benefits of food. How pointless. The "well-fed" icon and various messages you get after eating food in-game are also meaningless and uninformative.

I applaud your diligence in training your CUL ranks, and hope it pays off in the future. I will now probably do some research into what foods do what and invest in synthing foods now that we have extra space. I don't know if there are many dedicated CULs on my server (Gysahl) though.
#26 Dec 19 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
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CannonDub wrote:
1. Do you currently buy food for personal use? Why or why not?
No. Waste of gil IMO, for little effect. I would prefer to save gil to buy equipments + which are permanent, and looks nice.
5. If you don't purchase food, what specifically causes this? Pricing? Lack of information about food effects? Lack of availability?
None. None of them really interest me, +5 stat is lolcake, seriously. Maximizing character potential for me has always been how I play it and not some stupid number, on all MMO.

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#27 Dec 20 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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CannonDub wrote:
1. Do you currently buy food for personal use? Why or why not?
2. If you do purchase food, what foods effects are you seeking?
3. If you do purchase food, do you make an effort to go out and restock when you are running low?
4. If you do purchase food, where do you shop for it? The Grociers ward? Battlecraft ward? Personal bazaars?
5. If you don't purchase food, what specifically causes this? Pricing? Lack of information about food effects? Lack of availability?


1) No
2-4) N/A
5) Lack of information about what food does what, as well as not feeling like I need it.

Sorry I'm not buying from you; just giving you honest feedback.
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#28 Dec 20 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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No, I have tons of crab legs, finger shrimp, and jellyfish umbrellas in my backpack that I seem to enjoy.
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