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Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?Follow

#1 Dec 19 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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The White Knight - A self-appointed hero who tirelessly defends those in need. The slings and arrows of outrageous customer dissatisfaction shall not scar Square Enix while this stalwart figure is there to defend their actions.

The Troll - Enemy to all but himself, the contrarian Troll knows his opinion is all that matters. No point of view goes undulled by his grinding criticism while he is around.
Today, these two icons debate whether Final Fantasy XIV can survive -- in the face of its own players.

Disclaimer: This is a point-counterpoint editorial meant to open a discussion and not necessarily promote either view expressed by the characters within. Also, I realize it's an Ogre. FFXIV has no Trolls!

Read the editorial here
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#2 Dec 19 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I side with the troll. SE had to know leting the game out like this would come back to slap them in the face. But they just had to beat Cata/Starwars out the gate. Well gess what SE. This is not 1999 we expect a lot more for our $50 now days. You made the bed now sleep in it!

I hope they can turn this game around. But no *** kissing on our part is going to help them get this done. People point to the last patch and say. "Oh how great it is. Now we have NM. We should slap SE on the back and thank them!" But I say BS. For the love of god all they did was set out a few NM for us to fight at lvl 45+. Sure I am lvl 49 on my Glad but most of the people playing the game are not. They are still in there 20/30s. Where is the content for them? Where is the content that helps them get threw the mindless grind it takes to get to the high 40s?

People also point to the fix to SP and the UI. For the love of god the UI IS THE DARN GAME!! If anything they should have had this done befor the game evon hit beta! And the SP system? Did they really fix it? I say no. Sure you can get to lvl 20 with out stoping to **** but what about after that? I would say its more of a grind now than ever. And they trashed party play with this so called SP fix.

Im back to playing the game. I am having fun for what its worth. But its more the fun you have with a Beta and not a retail game. You can say "Oh but free play time!" all you want. I still payed 80$ to buy this game and what I got was an alpha thats just now geting into beta!
#3 Dec 19 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
Sadly enough I gotta side with the Troll (Ogre) for the most part too.
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#4 Dec 19 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I get what Elmer is trying to do here, but both the 'troll' and 'fanboy' are way too eloquent, cordial and subdued then they'd otherwise be.

I think SE has mitigated a lot of the damage so far, and the game's foundation is 10x better then it was. SE just needs to start working on content (pronto) and more motivators to play. I'm tired of doing the same 20 or so guildleves for almost 10 levels now; for no other gain but SP, EXP and Gil. There's just no sense of forward progression in the world.

I think most of us that are sticking around are in the middle. We want to see the game do well, but as of right now it's just not that fun.
#5 Dec 19 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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6 months ago if you would have told me the servers would be this dead I would have laughed at you.If you would have told me the game was so bad that SE , one of the least customer friendly companies, would be giving out extra free months like its goin out of style I would have called you crazy.6months ago if you would have told me the game would do so poorly SE would put a new team in charge of the game (by December!)I would have called you crazy. 6 months ago if you would have told me FFXIV would be leading the votes in worst game of 2010 I would have called you crazy.

I wanted this game to do well. The game isnt doing well and no amount of white knighting is gonna change that. Also trolls can troll all they want but at this point trolling FFXIV is like trying to set ashes from an already burned down house back on fire, its pointless.
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#6 Dec 19 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV needs:

1) An absolutely mind-blowing update with fixes galore and a ton of content.
2) A *BIG* marketing campaign.
3) The same thing, but all over again, at PS3 launch.
4) More visibility from the dev's. SE are too corporate... they need to take a leaf out of Bioware's book.
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#7 Dec 19 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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The first mistake SE made was bringing Tanaka back as head of the project.

SE has lost touch with what players want. They never really did make the transition from offline game developer to MMO developer. And even their offline titles are falling short of the mark outside Japan these days. What they don't seem to get is that they were known for above average graphics, music, and exceptional story. MMOs can't be based on those things. MMOs have to be based around gameplay, and when the gameplay is mediocre at best, all the glitz and cutscenes can't save them.
#8 Dec 19 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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that's not a troll. A troll would say that this game is going to fail hard and never recover.
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#9 Dec 19 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Meh that's a little simplistic.
I don't consider myself a troll, yet I have been vocal about the shortcomings.
I don't consider myself a fanboi, but I've defended the game against nonsense negative posts.

I'll defend what's good, and ***** about what's an obvious and overlooked design flaw.

Oh ****, am I a Trollboi? ><
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#10 Dec 19 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?


Can survive? O.o where did that come from? Of cores it Can! After November and first December patch I see increase in players base on Wutai server by a loots of new peeps (back then before Nov. update we already ware having quiet nice player base in my opinion and now it's even bigger which I'm happy with ^w^ just the lags because of more players sometimes annoy me, but that aren't frequent for my own good sake xD), town's starting to get crowded, camps as well. And about how many people are sometimes in Ul'dah i won't even tell you about ;) Not to mention those people are staying and actually liking the game, also with new player base came some wordy Lost Souls who need an help with first foot setting in Eorzea (I myself helped couple of them).

And of cores I'm siding With/As The White Knight, this game is owning and will own, and will kick all those trolls asses, you will mark my words.
#11 Dec 19 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
6 months ago if you would have told me the servers would be this dead I would have laughed at you.If you would have told me the game was so bad that SE , one of the least customer friendly companies, would be giving out extra free months like its goin out of style I would have called you crazy.6months ago if you would have told me the game would do so poorly SE would put a new team in charge of the game (by December!)I would have called you crazy. 6 months ago if you would have told me FFXIV would be leading the votes in worst game of 2010 I would have called you crazy.

I wanted this game to do well. The game isnt doing well and no amount of white knighting is gonna change that. Also trolls can troll all they want but at this point trolling FFXIV is like trying to set ashes from an already burned down house back on fire, its pointless.


Agree with this. Whether you're a troll or a fanboy at this point, no one still frequenting these boards could've foreseen the state this game would be in only a few months out from launch.

What really peeves me too are the "white knights" of late. These people who have been gushing all over the christmas music/gear recently implemented and pointing to it as the savior of the game (the 'content' we've all been looking for).

Also I don't quite agree with the viewpoint re: those who only played up to the beta are out of line comparing their experience to what the game has to offer now. Have there been improvements? Of course. However, no where near to the point where I'd still consider this game for a release candidate. Will the next December update do it either? Nope. This game has a long way to go before it's at a 'releasable' state.

In the end, I think the question everyone has to ask themselves is: If I had one shot to invite my friends to play this game (or lose it forever) would I do it? Until a good majority can start answering this question favorably, FFXIV will continue it's downward spiral into oblivion.

Anyway, good luck to the new dev team. They've got a steep uphill battle if they're going to turn this ship around.
#12 Dec 19 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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How are we going to give feedback effectively to SE?

Is there a way can can give the feedback and not feel like it is falling upon deaf ears until the issues we think are making the game flop turn up on a review on a major gaming website?
#13 Dec 19 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I get what Elmer is trying to do here, but both the 'troll' and 'fanboy' are way too eloquent, cordial and subdued then they'd otherwise be.


I knew this would come up while I was writing it, but I decided I didn't want to go TOO extreme with it since it's being posted as an article.
If another good topic comes up to try this again I can refine the characters a bit :)
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#14 Dec 19 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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#15 Dec 19 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Elmer, are the Jp, for the most part as polarized about this game?
#16Bylander, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 6:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I genuinely hope that this game does pick up but if it stays on its current path ... I know I won't be around… I want to party…. I want to PvP… I want to ride a Choco… I want an in game LS or party voice chat feature… I want massive battles that are beneficial… I WANT SOMETHING THAT MAKES FINAL FANTASY A STAND ALONE MMO!!! No matter how we try to cut it the retainer system is a complete waste… Gimme a **** AH and get it over with! The world is vast and beautiful and... EMPTY! This game is boring and the only reason it even gets any attention is because it's Final Fantasy! What if this was some unknown company and the game was called "Miracles of Eorzea" would you buy it if it looked like that at launch would you continue to even voice concern?! We are all Final Fantasy fans that’s why we all want to be the healthy, shy, little baby criticism "White Knight" when we should all be making our voices heard by all being “Trolls”. This is 2011 ***** there) **** you mean there’s no AH at launch? **** you mean no PvP? **** you mean UI lag? WTH is SE doing I felt robbed at launch. THIS IS A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR COMPANY GET TOWORK!!! Damnit I spent 5,000$ on a comp for this game and Black Ops 5970 4GB Radeon Black Edition, a Six Core Processor, 2 RAID 0 Velociraptors and 32 yes 32 GB of Ram was it overkill yes but this is FFXIV MMO!!! I was so ready oh and I’m not just saying bad things I love the graphics, storyline, behest, leves, etc. but face it even at its current state it’s not even 25%of what this game could be!!! (Where’s the regular quest, parties, a full on translation system HOLD ON YOU MEAN GOOGLE CHROME A WEB BROWER HAVE FULL SITE TRANLATIONS AND YOU CAN’T DO THAT?) I know this is not a very popular with the Final Fantasy crowd but **** it why do you level just to get gear? Just for bragging rights? Where the money where ya mouth is aspect? Basically you want end 50 content throughout a duel system NOT F***ING BALLISTA and why does everyone at like FFXI was the best game in the world? NOOOOOO IT WASNT!!! (Archer related) WTH Heavy Shot can’t be put with multishot? WTH Camouflage doesn’t make me disappear? Why when I use quick stride I have to pull out a weapon put it up and my buff by then is halfway dead (exaggeration) Final Fantasy IS HANDS DOWN THE GREATEST RPG FRANCHISE but the real question is has the title outgrown this company? (Think about it… Don’t worry I’ll wait) Square-Enix needs to grow a pair and be real competition towards other MMOS. Otherwise it’s just going to be the one Final Fantasy that just didn’t make it… This is the part that ****** me off not only the content, not only the UI, not only the lack of content but SE attitude about it all! Ok, so what I don’t care about an apology, I don’t care about people being demoted and a new team, I don’t care about free months, I don’t care about NONE OF YOUR EXCUSES! I want results in game and I want it now. Give me a genuine outline of what is to happen from this update up to March… na na na scratch that I want to know what the plan is up to May Damnit that way I know if this is something I want to stick with or something I should take as a loss and get back on my Black Ops. I’m a loyal customer I DESERVE IT! So if I’m being a “Troll” SO WHAT I PAID TO BE THAT!
#17 Dec 19 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Default
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Nutchoss wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
6 months ago if you would have told me the servers would be this dead I would have laughed at you.If you would have told me the game was so bad that SE , one of the least customer friendly companies, would be giving out extra free months like its goin out of style I would have called you crazy.6months ago if you would have told me the game would do so poorly SE would put a new team in charge of the game (by December!)I would have called you crazy. 6 months ago if you would have told me FFXIV would be leading the votes in worst game of 2010 I would have called you crazy.

I wanted this game to do well. The game isnt doing well and no amount of white knighting is gonna change that. Also trolls can troll all they want but at this point trolling FFXIV is like trying to set ashes from an already burned down house back on fire, its pointless.


Agree with this. Whether you're a troll or a fanboy at this point, no one still frequenting these boards could've foreseen the state this game would be in only a few months out from launch.

What really peeves me too are the "white knights" of late. These people who have been gushing all over the christmas music/gear recently implemented and pointing to it as the savior of the game (the 'content' we've all been looking for).

Also I don't quite agree with the viewpoint re: those who only played up to the beta are out of line comparing their experience to what the game has to offer now. Have there been improvements? Of course. However, no where near to the point where I'd still consider this game for a release candidate. Will the next December update do it either? Nope. This game has a long way to go before it's at a 'releasable' state.

In the end, I think the question everyone has to ask themselves is: If I had one shot to invite my friends to play this game (or lose it forever) would I do it? Until a good majority can start answering this question favorably, FFXIV will continue it's downward spiral into oblivion.

Anyway, good luck to the new dev team. They've got a steep uphill battle if they're going to turn this ship around.


I really agree the White Knighting as of late makes no sense. Even if you post it heir your preaching to the choir we know what the game is like we cant really be told how great it is the truth is in front of us and we see.


Beta players have a right to criticize but half of our complaints have zip to do with their most of what (at the time) they wanted fixed was UI better: check hardware mouse: check standard sp (&_&): check Market Wards: being worked on etc etc. If they come back their new complaints will match our own so I feel we are on the same side but if your not playing then you really don't know.

Basically I feel atm they know they have a second chance if they can fix the game by the PS3 release they may save this ship if not I am not sure what they can do. My hope is the learn from the past and get this game up to a year in stand point by then. basically all major game play issues fixed and the first major wave of endgame content installed if we were still in beta I would venture the endgame could wait and all they would really need to be at is release ready but given the time the game has already been out i don't see much saving this ships save a major content patch that is basically expansion 1.

I love FF as a series and I hope that this game manges to find its base and that they stick with the game for a long time. The last thing we need to do among the ones of us left is falling into the delusion that the game is fine while it crumbles around us. he best thing we can do is pressure SE into making changes not because we want to be ******** customers but because we want this game saved too and we the players know the game better then they do.
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#18 Dec 19 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Likibiki wrote:
FFXIV needs:

1) An absolutely mind-blowing update with fixes galore and a ton of content.
2) A *BIG* marketing campaign.
3) The same thing, but all over again, at PS3 launch.
4) More visibility from the dev's. SE are too corporate... they need to take a leaf out of Bioware's book.


This guy knows what's up. Once stuff gets fixed, which I know it will, SE really needs to start getting more people to try out this game. Website banner ad are ok. Website banner ads that say "Free 10 day trial" are better.
#19 Dec 19 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
Wolfums wrote:
Likibiki wrote:
FFXIV needs:

1) An absolutely mind-blowing update with fixes galore and a ton of content.
2) A *BIG* marketing campaign.
3) The same thing, but all over again, at PS3 launch.
4) More visibility from the dev's. SE are too corporate... they need to take a leaf out of Bioware's book.


This guy knows what's up. Once stuff gets fixed, which I know it will, SE really needs to start getting more people to try out this game. Website banner ad are ok. Website banner ads that say "Free 10 day trial" are better.


Yeah I agree with this as well AFTER FIXING THIS THING TO 100% Now that would be a great MMO Bioware Dragon Age with FFXIV GPX.....*droll.....
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#20 Dec 19 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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I'd change the *white knight* to *blind knight* to be honest, these people get a simple thing like an extra retainer and all of a sudden the game is the best thing on the planet... these blind knights are the reason why the state of the game is so **** for so long
#21 Dec 19 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't logged in a few days.

I just don't feel like playing anymore.

The last patch was just meh at best. NM's dropping crafting items? 600 faction points for a 'shot' at an orb?

{No Thanks}

I really appreciate the UI and gameplay fixes but really these are stuff that should have been there all along. Even as I type I'm really getting tired of rehashing the same old stuff. Just as I have gotten tired of playing. Tired of crafting, tired of repairing, tired of retainers, tired of anima, tired of sp gain, tired of same leves, tired of empty towns, tired of looking for anything new to try.

Golden Sun: Dark Dawn.... there's a game I can be happy playing. Wake me up in a couple years and we'll see how everything turned out.
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#22 Dec 19 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
ThadCastle wrote:
I'd change the *white knight* to *blind knight* to be honest, these people get a simple thing like an extra retainer and all of a sudden the game is the best thing on the planet... these blind knights are the reason why the state of the game is so sh*t for so long

OMFG IM GLAD IM NOT ALONE ON THIS PLANET CALLED "I WANT BETTER, I EXPECT BETTER"
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#23 Dec 19 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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EmiyaShirou wrote:
Quote:
Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?


Can survive? O.o where did that come from? Of cores it Can! After November and first December patch I see increase in players base on Wutai server by a loots of new peeps (back then before Nov. update we already ware having quiet nice player base in my opinion and now it's even bigger which I'm happy with ^w^ just the lags because of more players sometimes annoy me, but that aren't frequent for my own good sake xD), town's starting to get crowded, camps as well. And about how many people are sometimes in Ul'dah i won't even tell you about ;) Not to mention those people are staying and actually liking the game, also with new player base came some wordy Lost Souls who need an help with first foot setting in Eorzea (I myself helped couple of them).

And of cores I'm siding With/As The White Knight, this game is owning and will own, and will kick all those trolls asses, you will mark my words.


This is a White Knight! This is the fanboy post that really gets under my skin. People like this get a few crums tossed there way and all the suden the game is fine.

This game was not in beta when they shiped it. It was in Alpha at best! This is not what FFXIV needs now. We need people that will not be ok with table scraps and all the suden bow down to SE like they are the gods of all things MMO. This game is not owning **** its not ok. This game is a sinking ship that is in need of some veary drastic repairs. I would say we just got to the Beta stage. They have a long way to go befor this game can be called OK let alone owning!

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 9:34pm by Sethern79
#24 Dec 19 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Excellent editiorial Elmer! very fun to read =)

Although rather than surviving its player base I'm more concerned with opinions like this:

rikkuotaku wrote:
I haven't logged in a few days.

I just don't feel like playing anymore.

The last patch was just meh at best. NM's dropping crafting items? 600 faction points for a 'shot' at an orb?

{No Thanks}

I really appreciate the UI and gameplay fixes but really these are stuff that should have been there all along. Even as I type I'm really getting tired of rehashing the same old stuff. Just as I have gotten tired of playing. Tired of crafting, tired of repairing, tired of retainers, tired of anima, tired of sp gain, tired of same leves, tired of empty towns, tired of looking for anything new to try.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm with rikkoutaku on every single bit of that post, but I just don't think is fair, I can see how SE is trying hard, real hard, yet it doesn't seem to make much effect of any of us, which brings me to my real concern about FFXIV:

Can the game survive to its reputation? or rather... is it already to late to save this game?

Ken
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#25 Dec 19 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Elmer, are the Jp, for the most part as polarized about this game?


There's definitely a lot of negativity out there, but also some die-hard fans.
On 2ch, for example, you can find people ready to mock any news about the game that comes out. Even Tanaka's Twitter account was flooded with insulting messages leading up to and after the game's release. He used to tweet pretty often, but suddenly stopped around 3 months ago.

On the other hand, there are still many fan sites and blogs out there continuing to support the game and get up news and info for the fans. On the train now so I can't grab all the links at the moment, but ff14fan.com and ffxiv-fan.rulez.jp are two big ones off the top of my head.

The JP community seems much more active on both ends of the spectrum this time around.
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#26 Dec 19 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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MetalSmith wrote:
How are we going to give feedback effectively to SE?

Is there a way can can give the feedback and not feel like it is falling upon deaf ears until the issues we think are making the game flop turn up on a review on a major gaming website?

This! A million times this! I mean, seriously, can we expect the FFXIV dev teams to really slush through hundreds of forums on the net for our suggestions? Not really, and I can't even find a place on the Square Enix site to make suggestions. We bought the game, we play the game, can't we have an official public FFXIV suggestion box or similar on the lodestone to better improve our gameplay?
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#27 Dec 19 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought I would be hooked onto this game like I did to FFXI. It didn't, does that make me a troll?
#28 Dec 19 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
Please don't get me wrong, I'm with rikkoutaku on every single bit of that post, but I just don't think is fair, I can see how SE is trying hard, real hard, yet it doesn't seem to make much effect of any of us, which brings me to my real concern about FFXIV:

Can the game survive to its reputation? or rather... is it already to late to save this game?

Ken


Hate to say it but the game has a very good chance of not surviving. I'm fighting desperately to try to keep an interest in this game, but I too haven't logged more than a few hours since the November update. Every time I boot up the game, I just think, "oh what's the point" and close it before I even get into the server.

Initial impressions are everything for MMOs, and I'm pretty sure like 90% of FFXIV's potential customers already completely lost interest.
#29 Dec 19 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think most people are just befuddled wondering what the **** SE did for over five years with this game. There's more content in STO and it was made in 18 months. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know.
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#30 Dec 19 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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Elmer wrote:
Quote:
Hey Elmer, are the Jp, for the most part as polarized about this game?


There's definitely a lot of negativity out there, but also some die-hard fans.
On 2ch, for example, you can find people ready to mock any news about the game that comes out. Even Tanaka's Twitter account was flooded with insulting messages leading up to and after the game's release. He used to tweet pretty often, but suddenly stopped around 3 months ago.

On the other hand, there are still many fan sites and blogs out there continuing to support the game and get up news and info for the fans. On the train now so I can't grab all the links at the moment, but ff14fan.com and ffxiv-fan.rulez.jp are two big ones off the top of my head.

The JP community seems much more active on both ends of the spectrum this time around.


Awsome Ty for the reply, I'd rate you up if I could...

Quote:

Please don't get me wrong, I'm with rikkoutaku on every single bit of that post, but I just don't think is fair, I can see how SE is trying hard, real hard, yet it doesn't seem to make much effect of any of us, which brings me to my real concern about FFXIV:

Can the game survive to its reputation? or rather... is it already to late to save this game?

Ken


I am a strong believer in the old saying "Those who don't study history tend to repeat it"

With that said do I think this game will survive? Yes I do, but it wont be this big sucessful omg! game. I think at best it will be a mediocre, slowly dying game. Now I'm basing this off my past history with Vanguard except I felt this game was released in a worse state content wise. SE is doing a better job of fixing it, but the damage is done. That why I asked Elmer about how the JP feel about it. My gut tells me how this game fares is dependent on it's JP's base. I think it's too late in the west, You'll get some diehards sticking around, but thats it.

#31 Dec 19 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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If they stop forcing me to craft and actually make the game fun then I'll come back. But don't see that happening anytime soon. Hopely there prove me wrong.
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#32 Dec 19 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Default
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Seems the trolls are quick to the boards eh?

Its funny because the whole concept of trolling has never made any sense to me. If you don't like the game, why are you on these boards?

Call me a white-knight if i come on the general discussion board of a game that i enjoy playing?

I'll call you a pathetic individual for spending time of your life hopping on forums of a game that you:

A) Never played and bash
B) Played and disliked

It has never made sense to me if you don't like the game why are you on these forums? I could understand if u wish to see it turn around, but than again your not the ones bashing it. Give me one intelligent answer?

There isn't one, just a bunch of dissatisfaction and rants because it didn't meet your expectations.

Boo hoo move along because there are plenty of people who like the game and are excited about its future implentations to keep it going now, and will be even moreso after PS3 launch.

Peace haters
#33 Dec 19 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Depends on the definition of survive. With the current numbers, I don't think the game will last long enough or generate enough money/demand for an expansion. That will lead to the game not really lasting all that long, as people will begin to get bored and leave it.
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#34 Dec 19 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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At this point it's more a question of "Can SE Survive Its Player Base?" Look at the latest business news for the company. They missed revenue projections by 92%. They projected a profit of $144 million dollars for the 2010 fiscal year, and now they're saying it'll be closer to $12 million. My early 2011 wild prediction is that SE gets sold.
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#35 Dec 19 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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I'm going to take a middle of the road stance. Two things really have led us to where we are now.

One, SE has made many mistakes. No denying that and anyone wishing to try is deluded.

Two, the paranoia from the playerbase has inflamed situations more than necessary. We're still seeing this with such a stark contrast between the white knights and the trolls. You have the pessimistic trolls who see SE as some evil company who won't listen at all to their customers, holding certain sets of players among others, unable to do anything right, and all that paranoid bull. Then there's the white knights who get so angered at the trolls that they feel they have to defend SE to a fault. Both parties have example members even on ZAM who go beyond reasonable arguments for their opinions.

Here's where we need to go: SE needs to continue with the communications (some letters from the new crew would be nice, give us a vision of where you want to go!). They also need to assure us that they are listening (perhaps the people who read the feedback forums should post, proof they're doing their job!). The trolls need to either give up or lighten up. The white knights also need to lighten up. The game should only be judged based upon what is out. If we learned anything from the surplus exp debacle it's that rumor and speculation only lead to flaming and anger.
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#36 Dec 19 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, it's pretty clear now that SE did ***** up. When your game launches without something as basic as an inventory sort function, your game is freakin' broken. However, with the new team in place I think that they do have a chance to turn things around. Everything really depends on the next few updates they do to give the player base a sense of where they want to go with the game. It's possible to bring back some of the people who already left, and I really hope that they do, but I think most of those who are already gone aren't coming back.

I think that the game will survive, but I think it might be too late for it to thrive, and that makes me sad.
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#37 Dec 19 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Gadhelyn wrote:
I'm going to take a middle of the road stance. Two things really have led us to where we are now.

One, SE has made many mistakes. No denying that and anyone wishing to try is deluded.

Two, the paranoia from the playerbase has inflamed situations more than necessary. We're still seeing this with such a stark contrast between the white knights and the trolls. You have the pessimistic trolls who see SE as some evil company who won't listen at all to their customers, holding certain sets of players among others, unable to do anything right, and all that paranoid bull. Then there's the white knights who get so angered at the trolls that they feel they have to defend SE to a fault. Both parties have example members even on ZAM who go beyond reasonable arguments for their opinions.


I agree with this. Not all that long ago, Mythic Entertainment (the people responsible for Warhammer Online) had a billing error that resulted from a glitch with their billing company's software. The long and short of it was that the software tried to process payments for monthly subs on a particular day and the transaction didn't go through so it tried again the next day. And the next day. And the next day. For something like 6 weeks. When the transactions finally went through, ALL of them went through...every transaction for every day the system had been trying to post them. The end result was maxed out credit cards and bank accounts not only drained of existing funds, but hammered with hundreds upon hundreds of dollars in NSF charges because each of the transactions was posted individually.

Long story short, even after an error that led to rent/mortgage cheques bouncing and people unable to buy groceries while Mythic got it all sorted out, their playerbase STILL wasn't as jaded and cynical towards Mythic as the FFXI ex-pats and current players are towards SE, and they brought that cynicism with them to XIV. SE can do no right with them. SE will NEVER be able to do right by them because you have to be willing to acknowledge when someone does something right and a lot of the SE haters...despite still lining up to play the latest and greatest SE title...aren't willing to do that.

SE had a chance to reverse that trend to some extent with XIV, but they blew it right from the start. And now looking forward to the next several months/years, their chances of overcoming the negativity throughout the community as a whole are slim to none. They might win over some people who are on the fence and even some of the ones who resent the **** out of SE for the state of the game, but there's still going to be a sizable chunk of people who will never cut SE any slack. They'll continue to play the game, of course. They'll just whine and cry every step of the way.
#38 Dec 19 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'm taking a middle of the road stance.

On one end, I can see myself as the White Knight, I have friends (from FFXI and real life) that ask me why the **** I'm still playing Final Fantasy XIV, and it slightly annoys me when I know that they gave up one day after release at level 3.

On the other hand, I see myself as the troll, because I feel that making my initial displeasure with the game known is the only way Square-Enix will get their message known that what they were doing was not working.

Tanaka was a great developer, but he shouldn't be involved with MMOs. Maybe now that he has a reduced role, he may have time to finally work on a third Chrono game.


If FFXIV were to fail, that would probably be it for me in terms of MMOs. I'd rather not go back into FFXI (I hate Abyssea with a passion), and I'm not much of an online gamer in general. Also, it would probably affect any production of a FFXV, it would be weird to have another FF game after one that's "failed".

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 9:30pm by UltKnightGrover
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#39 Dec 19 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
kenage wrote:
Please don't get me wrong, I'm with rikkoutaku on every single bit of that post, but I just don't think is fair, I can see how SE is trying hard, real hard, yet it doesn't seem to make much effect of any of us, which brings me to my real concern about FFXIV:

Can the game survive to its reputation? or rather... is it already to late to save this game?

Ken


Hate to say it but the game has a very good chance of not surviving. I'm fighting desperately to try to keep an interest in this game, but I too haven't logged more than a few hours since the November update. Every time I boot up the game, I just think, "oh what's the point" and close it before I even get into the server.

Initial impressions are everything for MMOs, and I'm pretty sure like 90% of FFXIV's potential customers already completely lost interest.

I know that feeling all to well log in and 10 mins later you log out frustrated and kicking yourself for why you even try. Something like that?
But here is where FFXIV and a few other titles have it different from the rest of the market. They have player base to tap they the really really really failed at tapping it. A lot of speculation was that they wanted to move FFXI's player base here the deal is they did and the failed to hold em. Does that mean this is the end? Likely not but its not free pass either. Let me give you an example some might know gillette makes razors and a few years ago came out with a razor called the Mach 3 which basically dominated the market for its clean shave. Then they came out with various incarnations which were bleh and not much better if better at all. They finally came out with their fusion line (I'm getting to the point soon) the problem is people simply would not switch the old product worked fine why replace it? FFXI is the old product but it works fine and now they have presented a pretty looking product that simply isn't better. The real challenge is if they want players they have to make em switch. As for the Gen pop most of those guys are bye bye forever. 300k subs just sitting there with no real place to go and they cant even tap it (shakes head in disappointment).
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#40 Dec 19 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Default
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I'll make it short and simple anyone who think FFXIV can survive is dreaming the game is already dead and buried

There always be few people who play it but it wont mean the game is not dead, i bought the collector edition and i feel ripped off not because i bought a bad game (i bought a lot of bad games before) but because SE lied, FFXIV is not casual at all not even close, it was released at a state less than a "beta" and they charged us a full price for the game for a "beta" they lied a lot about pretty much everything in previous interviews they said stories will be voice acted i finished all missions up to rank34 mission and only 2% of the cutscenes were voice acted do they think this is 1990? there are western rpgs with much bigger world that have EVERY NPC let alone cutscenes fully voice acted (oblivion/the witcher/etc)

There is no reason to play mmorpg "solo" people don't mind solo "leveling up" but they want content where people team up the guildleve system is a complete joke

etc too many to list (im not here to list my issues with the game but you guys got my point)

FFXIV is utter garbage
#41 Dec 19 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good
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Now that I think about it, S-E can do some interesting marketing techniques to bring people back to Final Fantasy XIV. They can slip in coupons or something in their other S-E games. (Like they did with FFXIII sort of.) Give an additional free month to XIV and add in some bonus in-game item.

They just need to be more vocal and that's key. They did it right so far with a new development team, now they need to go on a massive marketing campaign.

Of course, this is only after the game is at a playable/payable/enjoyable state. If it's one thing to learn, gamers are very unforgiving people. And there are never second chances in the industry, for S-E to make FFXIV a groundbreaking success in the future (which is unlikely, lets be honest), it would be monumental.

But the people who think the game will never survive are just as delusional as the people who think S-E are gods who can never go wrong.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 9:43pm by UltKnightGrover
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#42 Dec 19 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'll gladly play the white knight in this battle. Okay, we were off to a rocky start but it's obvious to anyone that they're pulling out all the stops to fix the issues. It won't happen overnight as these things take time, but every update brings us closer to a resolution. Ultimately im certain we'll have a game we can all really enjoy, and that's all that matters in the end.

I'm convinced that even if SE decided to hand out complimentary Ridil's and relic-type armor to all players for sticking with it, people wouldn't be happy. The trolls will never be satisfied until their whims are met, and their whims will never be met because trolls never agree on anything anyway.

So, have at thee, trolls. Taste my steel.
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#43 Dec 19 2010 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
I'll gladly play the white knight in this battle. Okay, we were off to a rocky start but it's obvious to anyone that they're pulling out all the stops to fix the issues. It won't happen overnight as these things take time, but every update brings us closer to a resolution. Ultimately im certain we'll have a game we can all really enjoy, and that's all that matters in the end.

I'm convinced that even if SE decided to hand out complimentary Ridil's and relic-type armor to all players for sticking with it, people wouldn't be happy. The trolls will never be satisfied until their whims are met, and their whims will never be met because trolls never agree on anything anyway.

So, have at thee, trolls. Taste my steel.


The trolls are the reason why this game is getting fixed or you white knights would still

be happy with release ffxiv.
#44 Dec 19 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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mainvein wrote:
I know that feeling all to well log in and 10 mins later you log out frustrated and kicking yourself for why you even try. Something like that?
But here is where FFXIV and a few other titles have it different from the rest of the market. They have player base to tap they the really really really failed at tapping it. A lot of speculation was that they wanted to move FFXI's player base here the deal is they did and the failed to hold em. Does that mean this is the end? Likely not but its not free pass either. Let me give you an example some might know gillette makes razors and a few years ago came out with a razor called the Mach 3 which basically dominated the market for its clean shave. Then they came out with various incarnations which were bleh and not much better if better at all. They finally came out with their fusion line (I'm getting to the point soon) the problem is people simply would not switch the old product worked fine why replace it? FFXI is the old product but it works fine and now they have presented a pretty looking product that simply isn't better. The real challenge is if they want players they have to make em switch. As for the Gen pop most of those guys are bye bye forever. 300k subs just sitting there with no real place to go and they cant even tap it (shakes head in disappointment).


I'm sorry, I just can't resist...

Your comparison would be more accurate if Gillette's Mach 3 razors had a tendency to shave off a layer or two of skin with every pass, took four hours just to get ready to use and if Gillette had come out at the unveiling of their plans for the new Fusion line saying that they felt confident that after many years of "success" with the Mach 3 line they felt they had a strong understanding of what men want in a razor.
#45 Dec 20 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
mainvein wrote:
I know that feeling all to well log in and 10 mins later you log out frustrated and kicking yourself for why you even try. Something like that?
But here is where FFXIV and a few other titles have it different from the rest of the market. They have player base to tap they the really really really failed at tapping it. A lot of speculation was that they wanted to move FFXI's player base here the deal is they did and the failed to hold em. Does that mean this is the end? Likely not but its not free pass either. Let me give you an example some might know gillette makes razors and a few years ago came out with a razor called the Mach 3 which basically dominated the market for its clean shave. Then they came out with various incarnations which were bleh and not much better if better at all. They finally came out with their fusion line (I'm getting to the point soon) the problem is people simply would not switch the old product worked fine why replace it? FFXI is the old product but it works fine and now they have presented a pretty looking product that simply isn't better. The real challenge is if they want players they have to make em switch. As for the Gen pop most of those guys are bye bye forever. 300k subs just sitting there with no real place to go and they cant even tap it (shakes head in disappointment).


I'm sorry, I just can't resist...

Your comparison would be more accurate if Gillette's Mach 3 razors had a tendency to shave off a layer or two of skin with every pass, took four hours just to get ready to use and if Gillette had come out at the unveiling of their plans for the new Fusion line saying that they felt confident that after many years of "success" with the Mach 3 line they felt they had a strong understanding of what men want in a razor.

on a somewhat funny note it does ( i mean all razors do thats exfoliation). But I was preparing for an interview a few years back and the blade was so sharp it cut some layers off my scalp and I felt 0 pain it wasn't till I saw a pool of blood on top of my head I realized. And yes they have had their share of failure mach 3 was like omg they finally made the "perfect" razor. Yes so perfect that the blades are razor sharp and could slit a neck and you'd never feel the pain. Then they came out with fusion that has sharper blades and 5 of them and made the argument in your last line.

Even though the point I was trying to make wasn't a 1 to 1 example. What I meant was the company has loyal clients but getting them here will take lots of work and a minor miracle.



Edited, Dec 20th 2010 2:35am by mainvein
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#46 Dec 20 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
Nutchoss wrote:
If I had one shot to invite my friends to play this game (or lose it forever) would I do it?


This comment was one that hit home for me after reading all of this. MMO's are nothing without the friends you've made/make in them. At this current time I wouldn't urge any of my friends not playing the game to get it and join me. I really enjoy playing the game but the game to me is only a solo game at this point, party play is pretty much nonexistent. My enjoyment for the game though is also based off the fact that they have extended the free play indefinitely for the time being. I've pretty much made up my mind that I'll continue logging in and playing FFXIV as long as it's free for me to do so or until SE brings the game up to par with something that is actually worth a monthly subscription fee from me. The clock is ticking though either way.
#47 Dec 20 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Perhaps it's unfair to label those who had/have a problem with the game's release trolls? After all, many of their concerns and criticisms were/are justified.

In my world, a troll is someone who says or does something SOLELY in order to provoke others and elicit a response, not generate conversation on issues that truly do need to be addressed.

Edit: grammar fail.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 2:58am by Onionthiefx
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#48 Dec 20 2010 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Perhaps it's unfair to label those who had/have a problem with the game's release trolls? After all, many of their concerns and criticisms were/are justified.

In my world, a troll is someone who says or does something SOLELY in order to provoke others and illicit a response, not generate conversation on issues that truly do need to be addressed.


I agree. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but while obviously all the bad press and complaining got SE into gear, I will always see a distinction between coherent clear complaints and constructive criticism where SE can clearly see what a player is dissatisfied with and how it could be improved versus someone just frothing at the mouth about how the game is garbage with nothing to contribute.
#49 Dec 20 2010 at 3:38 AM Rating: Default
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We are playing for free, its an open beta, no need to complain, all we need to do now is make SE understand that for this game to succeed it needs the following, and without it, it will never work:

1-AH, yes we need one and without it things will never work.
2-Chocobo and airships.
3-Mail
4-More slots for trade function.
5-Content, new quests (not guildleves), epic stories.

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#50 Dec 20 2010 at 3:38 AM Rating: Default
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I want to combine the two, and make the troll wear white knight armor.

Can I have a healthy mix of both?
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#51 Dec 20 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Umm..if you're going to use quotes from forums word-for-word to make up about 50% of the article, I would prefer they be credited to the original authors so that people can see that its not your opinions, but the opinions of others, Mr Elmer-taru.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 4:41am by Uryuu
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