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Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?Follow

#152 Dec 21 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Those are just a few examples - clear evidence IN FACT, that I have noted.


There's no evidence SE read those threads.

You could be simply siting coincidence.

I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate with you all but do you think Imp Incantation was INTENDED to insta-deathga wipe entire groups? or do you think that was some oversight and underestimation? It was brought to their attention (somehow) and they fixed it. This is normal MMO patching. It's not exactly proof positive of listening to customer feedback.

I said several times in several places - SE's lack of personal communication with its players would clear up a lot of this.

Why isn't SE reps posting in Feedback forums?

"Yeah. That's a good idea. We'll review it." or "Actually, we're working on something like that. I think you'll be pleased." or "Actually, do to limits in our code that would be very difficult, but we'll look into alternatives."

^ WHERE IS THIS?
That's proof. Everything else is speculation (my argument & yours).
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Battle Mage Kiru
#153 Dec 21 2010 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
We're showing you evidence. You just refuse to accept it.


You're showing me complaints & fixes to said complaints.

You're not showing me that SE didn't intend to change those things originally.
You're not showing me SE isn't listening to feedback avidly so they don't lose money (which is all I originally suggested).

I'm bailing on this argument now. It's not much of an argument anyway and as I've tried to say (in the last couple posts) my argument is based on my personal opinion/experiences and yours are based on your opinions/experiences.

I just don't see your "evidence" as evidence of anything other than "convenience" on SE's part to reassure customers and to make a financial failure into an eventual success.

I'm promising myself I won't respond any more on this subject. Even if you call me names and make me angry. ^^ It's a dead horse now. Go ahead and get your final words if you must.
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Battle Mage Kiru
#154 Dec 21 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
Those are just a few examples - clear evidence IN FACT, that I have noted.


There's no evidence SE read those threads.

You could be simply siting coincidence.

I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate with you all but do you think Imp Incantation was INTENDED to insta-deathga wipe entire groups? or do you think that was some oversight and underestimation? It was brought to their attention (somehow) and they fixed it. This is normal MMO patching. It's not exactly proof positive of listening to customer feedback.



If they didn't listen to player feedback, how would they have known that it was a problem?

I love the bolded sentence. What do you think brought it to their attention? I wonder...
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#155 Dec 21 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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116 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
We're showing you evidence. You just refuse to accept it.


You're showing me complaints & fixes to said complaints.

You're not showing me that SE didn't intend to change those things originally.
You're not showing me SE isn't listening to feedback avidly so they don't lose money (which is all I originally suggested).

I'm bailing on this argument now. It's not much of an argument anyway and as I've tried to say (in the last couple posts) my argument is based on my personal opinion/experiences and yours are based on your opinions/experiences.

I just don't see your "evidence" as evidence of anything other than "convenience" on SE's part to reassure customers and to make a financial failure into an eventual success.

I'm promising myself I won't respond any more on this subject. Even if you call me names and make me angry. ^^ It's a dead horse now. Go ahead and get your final words if you must.


How can I possibly show you that SE didn't intend to change these things originally, other than appeal to common sense? If they intended to fix them originally, why didn't they fix them before they released the game? This is becoming absurd. Use some common sense. First you say that they weren't aware of the problems, then you say they released the game with the intention of fixing all of these problems. Which is it?

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 7:24pm by Clydey2Times
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#156 Dec 21 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. SE had a grand master plan that included releasing the game with Impish Incantations overpowered - and planned ahead to nerf it three months later. That makes a **** of a lot of sense.

If you don't want to accept the evidence, fine - I offered some. If all you have to argue with is your twisted illogic - it is pointless to even bother.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#157 Dec 21 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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What are you guys even talking about? or do you just like to argue for the sake of it?

I never said it was part of their plan. I said Imp Incantation obviously isn't working as intended (as in NOT PART OF THEIR PLAN) so they fixed it.

As to how they knew things were broken, well they could have sat down and played the game for two hours - or they could have read ZAM forums. I don't know. You don't know either.

This isn't even an argument anymore. You 2 are just saying random things that barely (usually not even) contradict what I'm saying.

Prove to me this is about customer support and not about making money.

I love this bolded line because you can't do it. So stop trying.

PS
Sorry I broke my promise.
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Battle Mage Kiru
#158 Dec 21 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Kirutaru wrote:

Prove to me this is about customer support and not about making money.



Dude, what planet do you live on? Customer support is always about making money. You think the baristas at my coffee shop make me coffee to make me happy? No they do it to make money. If I am happy they are more likely to make more money.

EVERY business is about making money. What's your point. I don't care WHY they are listening to the player base and I don't care to argue why because it doesn't matter. The fact is that they ARE listening to the playerbase. I don't know why it is so hard for you to admit that.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#159 Dec 21 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Prove to me this is about customer support and not about making money.


Strawman is a strawman, all customer support is about making money.
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#160 Dec 21 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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Kirutaru wrote:
What are you guys even talking about? or do you just like to argue for the sake of it?

I never said it was part of their plan. I said Imp Incantation obviously isn't working as intended (as in NOT PART OF THEIR PLAN) so they fixed it.

As to how they knew things were broken, well they could have sat down and played the game for two hours - or they could have read ZAM forums. I don't know. You don't know either.

This isn't even an argument anymore. You 2 are just saying random things that barely (usually not even) contradict what I'm saying.

Prove to me this is about customer support and not about making money.

I love this bolded line because you can't do it. So stop trying.

PS
Sorry I broke my promise.


You = Brick Wall. No point in continuing with this.

Also, I would love to know who is rating up your posts.
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#161 Dec 21 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You = Brick Wall. No point in continuing with this.

Also, I would love to know who is rating up your posts.


^ This is like the definition of brick wall. Maybe they are rating me up because I'm talking in complete sentences with minimal grammatical errors and not resorting to name calling when I get frustrated. I don't know. Why does anyone rate anyone up? It's pretty arbitrary. You shouldn't rate people up because you agree with them. You should rate them up because they are cordial or helpful.

Quote:
Dude, what planet do you live on? Customer support is always about making money.


Obviously the same planet as you because that's what I've been saying all along. I said they fixed the game because they were losing money. Some people are telling me they fixed it because they're listening to customer feedback.

I admitted (at least once, but probably more) that this is the same thing and it's just a matter of perspective. That's why I think this is a dead horse. I feel like people aren't even arguing with me, but showing me fallible evidence that SE is listening to feedback.

How does SE know these things are broken? Well, they either found it themselves or they listened to customer feedback. There's no evidence to support either claim (and I never claimed either). Only SE can directly answer my questions, or you could show me some interaction between SE and its feedback mediums (which I already know there isn't any) because SE so curtly tells me that they're much to busy to give responses and they thank me for understanding - every time I send them feedback.

I just claimed they were fixing the game because it was broken and because they want to make money. I hope this clears things up.
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Battle Mage Kiru
#162 Dec 21 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
Where's your evidence that it was prompted by losing money?


Where's your evidence that it was prompted by user feedback?


Good God. It's like arguing religion... and everyone knows how that merry-go-round goes.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 7:41pm by ashaylin
#163 Dec 21 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Kirutaru wrote:


I just claimed they were fixing the game because it was broken and because they want to make money. I hope this clears things up.


Fair enough.

Smiley: deadhorse
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#164 Dec 21 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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As far as levequest go: I love them for what they are. If I get on and only have 20-60 minutes to play, I could run out do 2 of these things, get my XP for the day and be done, as well as feel like I've gained something.

My issue with the quest content of the game is that there is no depth. There are dozens of NPC's in each starting town but hardly a quest in sight. The first thing I do in MMO's is run around and talk to the NPC's, get some early quests done and get a feel for the situation of the game. As much as I love interacting with people, I would like to be able to interact with NPC's that have a decent amount of depth. An NPC that tells me to ****** off a level 1 but asks me to gather secret documents that he lost in an ambush at level 25, and the idea that you knew he'd give you something to do eventually, but you didn't quite know what. Right now this game is essentially an interactive chat room. There is so little meaning to anything you do besides interact with others. It's like they took the Role Playing out of Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get my point across well enough or not, but this game seems to have been designed purely for several thousand people on one server to make the entire depth of the situation in the game. There is nothing to supplement the game if you don't have a group of friends to RP with. Go read up on a lists of quests and the things that NPCs want you to do in any other RPG. You can boil them down to the same basic principles as any other RPG. The difference is how they are presented. I can give you 1000 pages of raw statistical data and say I've given you information that you requested (levequests), or I can organize the data, interpret and give a generalized statement as to it's meaning, allowing you to delve further into it if you felt it was necessary (properly written quest using basic go here and kill that quest function).

Again, I don't know if I am getting the right point across, but I hope you can forgive my horrible analogies and see what I'm trying to say ^_^


Now, on to combat. Combat itself isn't horrible, but the way some skills become necessary very early in the game upsets me. Chakra, for example, seems to be necessary, and is attained at an exceptionally early level. Why? who knows. All I know is that a self heal ability that requires no MP is going to be a necessary skill. Even with subjobs in XI, you needed something that could heal you most times.

Crafting, this game seems to have been designed around crafting. Leveling up makes much more sense for a crafting game than a combat game. Honestly, I think that how you gain xp from crafting and from combat are so completely opposites that it should not ever be mixed like it has been here. Again, I like how experience it gained for crafting, but not that the same methods are used for combat. Unfortunately I don't have any solutions for this. I would like to see experience gained from monsters be more defined and gain relative to the strength of the monster towards the individual player.

I would also like to see it where as the relative strength of a monster increases, the penalty for multiple people in your party decreases. Red mob = 100% gained by all members of the party. Yellow mob you lose 5% of your potential XP per member. Green mob you lose 60%. Blue you lose 90%. Something like that, though those numbers are pretty horrible. Or possibly have the total experience gained be divided by the number of party members, with bonuses depending upon the size of the party and the difficulty of the mob relative to each player. For example, Red mob with 15 party members, after the fight you get a total of 15000 in skill ups between all of your party members. Every member would get 100 xp, + a bonus for the mob's difficulty to the particular player. Red mob would give that individual a 100% bonus towars XP gain. So if the mob was red to you, you'd gain 100 XP, + 100 more bonus XP. If it was yellow to you, the xp bonus would start to drop off to 75% for example.

And my very last complaint that I have had since alpha day 1 is that the fishing and mining and tree cutting has so much redundancy in it's menus. Can we streamline this a tad bit? Not a big deal but it does annoy me.
#165 Dec 21 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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In any structured debate, the person bringing up the argument is the affirmative (thats you, kirutaru), and therefor has the burden of proof. Seeing that all you offer is conjecture, you have failed to live up to that burden of proof. not to mention, those who took up the negative did offer and cite evidence poking holes in your conjecture.

any judge of a structured debate would find in the negative.

Edit:
Quote:
I just claimed they were fixing the game because it was broken and because they want to make money. I hope this clears things up.


The argument I saw you trying to make is that the changes were not due to customer feedback, which is why the whole making money, customer support correlation is a strawman argument.


Edited, Dec 21st 2010 5:48pm by taliph
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#166 Dec 21 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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No wonder I try to avoid this place as much as possible. It is filled to the brim with utter morons, many of whom haven't played the game since Beta. Whether or not you like the recent changes, it is pure denial to suggest that SE is ignoring the playerbase. They have acknowledged every major issue, even if they haven't addressed all of them yet.


Here's the beginning. Clyde starts out insulting everyone here arbitrarily and indiscriminately. Then suggests people are in denial to suggest SE ignores the player base. (That's not the same as denying they listen to customer feedback, btw). They have acknowledged every major issue, but haven't addressed them all (yet). There's no way of knowing what they have fixed or changed due to customer feedback, what their player base desires, or if they just assessed it as working incorrectly and planned to change it in the future.

Note: I'm not saying they aren't doing those things. I'm just saying "There's no evidence."

Quote:
The game was released with many, many problems. No one has ever denied that fact. You can either resent SE for that indefinitely or you can acknowledge that making all of the necessary changes will take time. ****, it's not like you are even paying to play the game. If you don't like the game, move on. Why are people who quit the game months ago still whining about it, despite having not experienced any of the changes?


This is a reasonable question. I don't know the answer. I love FFXIV and I think it's a fun game. I'm not particularly fond of SE's public relations. I don't appreciate the way they conduct business or the way they represent their products. It doesn't mean I don't like all their games - or have anything against FFXIV specifically.

Quote:
The only thing this game really lacks now is content. There isn't a single other issue I can't get past. I don't have impossible standards and I certainly don't expect the perfect game. It is absurd to constantly bash a game that isn't tailored specifically to every single one of your preferences.


I agree. Well, except I think the game has content. It just isn't content that appeals to everyone, but I'm also sure that over time there will be plenty to do for all sorts.

Now I said: Really? What have they done due to player feedback? What immediate changes weren't prompted by losing money?

That spurned this entire "argument." It's a relative question. It's been talked over to death. Let's just put it to rest. Ok? Argue about something more fulfilling like what it means to "have content" or whether "SP is broken" or "how can SE fix this game."
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#167 Dec 21 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Default
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Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
You = Brick Wall. No point in continuing with this.

Also, I would love to know who is rating up your posts.


^ This is like the definition of brick wall. Maybe they are rating me up because I'm talking in complete sentences with minimal grammatical errors and not resorting to name calling when I get frustrated. I don't know. Why does anyone rate anyone up? It's pretty arbitrary. You shouldn't rate people up because you agree with them. You should rate them up because they are cordial or helpful.

Quote:
Dude, what planet do you live on? Customer support is always about making money.


Obviously the same planet as you because that's what I've been saying all along. I said they fixed the game because they were losing money. Some people are telling me they fixed it because they're listening to customer feedback.

I admitted (at least once, but probably more) that this is the same thing and it's just a matter of perspective. That's why I think this is a dead horse. I feel like people aren't even arguing with me, but showing me fallible evidence that SE is listening to feedback.

How does SE know these things are broken? Well, they either found it themselves or they listened to customer feedback. There's no evidence to support either claim (and I never claimed either). Only SE can directly answer my questions, or you could show me some interaction between SE and its feedback mediums (which I already know there isn't any) because SE so curtly tells me that they're much to busy to give responses and they thank me for understanding - every time I send them feedback.

I just claimed they were fixing the game because it was broken and because they want to make money. I hope this clears things up.


Minimal grammatical errors? Don't even get me started.
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#168 Dec 21 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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You're just trolling, now, Clyde (if you weren't to begin with).

I don't understand how I got vilified here. Maybe I should have called people more names and acted like I was a victim of internet idiocy. I don't know. I was just saying you shouldn't come on here and say people are in denial.

SE fixed their game. That's all that we know for sure. The rest is conjecture.

Edit: Maybe I just misrepresented myself. Maybe I played Devil's Advocate too hard. Maybe somewhere in there I got confused about my original point, but this post (and my previous post) should clear that up for everyone. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 7:59pm by Kirutaru
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#169 Dec 21 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
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Kirutaru wrote:
You're just trolling, now, Clyde (if you weren't to begin with).

I don't understand how I got vilified here. Maybe I should have called people more names and acted like I was a victim of internet idiocy. I don't know. I was just saying you shouldn't come on here and say people are in denial.

SE fixed their game. That's all that we know for sure. The rest is conjecture.


I'm not trolling. You brought up grammar, so let's not pretend it was the other way around. I'm happy to drop it for the sake of keeping things relevant.

I feel your argument has been pretty much picked apart. There's no need to beat a dead horse, even if you are backtracking now.
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#170 Dec 21 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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You asked why I'm being rated up. I just gave some examples of the arbitrary reason.

Do you see how you're derailing this further and further? Ugh. Sadly I'm participating.

Alright. Sorry, folks. I'm just having a hard time because I feel on the defensive. Sorry to be continue-bumping this ridiculous conversation. This is my last post unless someone brings up some new, semi-related topic.

Bye, Clyde. Good luck in FFXIV. I wish you the best.
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Battle Mage Kiru
#171 Dec 21 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
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So how are raids in FFXIV ? did they released any on the last patch ? or is just dodo's still ?
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#172 Dec 21 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Anurid wrote:


Leve can't reasonably be included in "quest" or "story" categories, however you define them. Leve are "grind", plain and simple.


Really? Cause trading cabbages to that old **** in selbina seemed like way more of a grind than any leve I have done.



I fully agree with you. you will note I mentionned sub-job/level cap/sleepga/SOB etc. quest, which are basically none-repeatable content. I would not qualify the selbina cabagge stuff as a quest either.

Right now FF14 falls a bit short on those non-repeatable/interesting/rewarding quest. Not my main issue with the game (SP/party mechanismes are now, UI i'm quite happy with their correction, can still be tweeked, but it is decent and usuable), I'm not yet starved for content but don't change what I said please.
#173 Dec 22 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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Wow. Can you hear me all the way out there in outer space, Glitterhands? Seriously, what planet do you live on, because really:

1.) If you think cutscenes are content, you're wrong.
2.) If you think that leves are content, you're hilariously wrong.
3.) If you think WoW and EQ2 didn't launch with hundreds of lore-centered quests and a dozen or more lore-steeped dungeon areas AND endgame content, you're not just wrong; you're quite disconnected from reality.

I'm sorry it takes so little for you to be entertained. Some of us, and well, by the reaction to 14, A LOT of us, require more.
1. Cutscenes AND story-driven quests. Yes, they're once every 5 levels, but still story centric quests which follow on from each other. If that's not content, then pray tell what is?

2. So, let me get this straight, "lore-centered quests" which basically involve grabbing a small number of items from some random troll is 'content' but doing the same in FFXIV isn't? Either it's content, or it isn't. You can't say it is for one game, but not the other. Sorry, but when WoW came out that was the majority of quests. Kill X trolls, get X items etc. There were a handful of actual story-related quests (what little story the game actually had at the time) but nothing substantial. Most of the early quests in WoW involved killing very large amounts of enemies in some area, so much so that the population of said monster was very scarce with everyone farming them.

If you're going to attack my points, at least do so with the bare minimum of facts. It had a lot of quests, but most of them were effectively the same thing.

3. Okay, I'll grant you. WoW did launch with some degree of 'endgame' content. Though I use the term loosely as it was basically just higher level versions of the dungeons you visit in earlier levels. Not stating that as a bad thing, merely pointing out that the launch 'endgame' wasn't the true endgame they planned nor the one they eventually gave players. They later released far superior endgame content for players to enjoy as well as raising the level cap significantly over time making yesteryears endgame just part of the climb. But that's progress for you.

I'm not trying to start a WoW versus FFXI debate here. Just pointing out that your argument isn't based off facts, just opinions. Read up on how the game was REALLY like back then and maybe you'll reconsider your argument.
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#174 Dec 22 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
1. Cutscenes AND story-driven quests. Yes, they're once every 5 levels, but still story centric quests which follow on from each other. If that's not content, then pray tell what is?


I'm only chiming in about the quality/quantity of the content here, and have no desire to argue over the definition of what 'content' is. That said ...

You'll find that after Rank 20, it is no longer 5 level increments, but worse. More like between 7 and 9 levels. Additionally, factor in the very long, arduous grind once you start reaching those mid-20s to early 30s. Believe me, I've tried. I've seriously tried to keep my eye on the prize, because I want to keep going when it comes to the story content. But for Christ's sake, when I saw how woefully meager the level 26 story quest was after I completed it, and then saw that there was an 8 level gap between that and the next story quest, I just flat out gave up on advancing my highest level job for now.

Not only that, let's talk numbers. Like I mentioned in my own post on the other page, there's somewhere along the lines of 6 storyline missions in FFXIV right now, from level 1 to level 50. That's right, only 6. Now I am sure people out there could comment that FFXI didn't have its full load of missions from Rank 1 to 10 until Rise of the Zilart was released, but let me say this:

Even prior to RoZ, the original FFXI had at least a dozen missions between Rank 1 and Rank 4, three missions per rank. Let's also not forget that a majority of those were actually memorable missions. While the latter is more opinion than fact, nothing I've done up to the level 26 storyline stuff in FFXIV holds a candle to what I did during my run up to level 30 in FFXI and the memories I have of going city to city on a diplomatic mission, climbing Delkfutt, or going all Solid Snake in all three Beastmen strongholds to get some chunks of magicite.

Oh, right, and also the fact that I could, you know, do all of those by level 30 in FFXI? Wherein I get half the core game content over almost double the amount of level grinding in FFXIV? Just ... no. I'm sorry. No.

You can add voiced cutscenes, prettier graphics, and the like ... but those only do so much when it comes to these story quests.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 9:59am by Satisiun
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#175 Dec 22 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Satisiun wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
1. Cutscenes AND story-driven quests. Yes, they're once every 5 levels, but still story centric quests which follow on from each other. If that's not content, then pray tell what is?


I'm only chiming in about the quality/quantity of the content here, and have no desire to argue over the definition of what 'content' is. That said ...

You'll find that after Rank 20, it is no longer 5 level increments, but worse. More like between 7 and 9 levels. Additionally, factor in the very long, arduous grind once you start reaching those mid-20s to early 30s. Believe me, I've tried. I've seriously tried to keep my eye on the prize, because I want to keep going when it comes to the story content. But for Christ's sake, when I saw how woefully meager the level 26 story quest was after I completed it, and then saw that there was an 8 level gap between that and the next story quest, I just flat out gave up on advancing my highest level job for now.

Not only that, let's talk numbers. Like I mentioned in my own post on the other page, there's somewhere along the lines of 6 storyline missions in FFXIV right now, from level 1 to level 50. That's right, only 6. Now I am sure people out there could comment that FFXI didn't have its full load of missions from Rank 1 to 10 until Rise of the Zilart was released, but let me say this:

Even prior to RoZ, the original FFXI had at least a dozen missions between Rank 1 and Rank 4, three missions per rank. Let's also not forget that a majority of those were actually memorable missions. While the latter is more opinion than fact, nothing I've done up to the level 26 storyline stuff in FFXIV holds a candle to what I did during my run up to level 30 in FFXI and the memories I have of going city to city on a diplomatic mission, climbing Delkfutt, or going all Solid Snake in all three Beastmen strongholds to get some chunks of magicite.

Oh, right, and also the fact that I could, you know, do all of those by level 30 in FFXI? Wherein I get half the core game content over almost double the amount of level grinding in FFXIV? Just ... no. I'm sorry. No.

You can add voiced cutscenes, prettier graphics, and the like ... but those only do so much when it comes to these story quests.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 9:59am by Satisiun


Out of curiosity, was FFXI your first MMO? It was mine and I can relate to the feelings you described with regards to your early experiences in the game. I couldn't expect that from FFXIV, however. I'm not new to the genre anymore.
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#176 Dec 22 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
1. Cutscenes AND story-driven quests. Yes, they're once every 5 levels, but still story centric quests which follow on from each other. If that's not content, then pray tell what is?


Those are cutscenes and mini events that are trivialized because you can do them by throwing stones. They're also one and done, once you finish them, you cant even try other cities. No you just grind again.
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#177 Dec 22 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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Clydey2Times wrote:
Out of curiosity, was FFXI your first MMO? It was mine and I can relate to the feelings you described with regards to your early experiences in the game. I couldn't expect that from FFXIV, however. I'm not new to the genre anymore.


It's not, actually. Although FFXI was the MMO I have played the most and for the longest of time before packing it in earlier this year, I've been playing MMORPGs since Ultima Online. That includes time with EQ, EQ2, a few months of vanilla WoW, Aion, and ... dare I say it, even a month of The Sims Online sometime in 2003, as horrible as that sounds.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI Character(s)
Name: Satisiun
Server: Carbuncle (RIP Gilgamesh)
Jobs: 99DRG, 99PLD, 99RDM, 99WHM | Everything else: 50-60
~Retired.~

Final Fantasy XIV Character(s)
Name: Satisiun Desain
Server(s): Sargantas (primary)
DoW/DoM/DoH/DoL: 50
#178 Dec 23 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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110 posts
If it takes the failure of FFXIV for Square and white knight fanboys to learn that players don't pay (neither in dollars nor interest) for a game's "potential" - so be it.

Much like the present paradigm of FFXI - SE's approach to 14 is little more than profit oriented gimmickry than real value content. The sheen on the FF brand is wearing too thin to mask this failure.

Final Fantasy's cache is mediocre at best these days.

Their great titles are behind them (far behind them) and trash like FFXIV should rightly be swept aside by both audiences and critics.

If "white knights" can't understand the level of professional standards and expectations a whole MMO industry lives by maybe they should take off their diapers and check the calendar.

The next Gen of MMO FFXIV is not.

**** it's not even competent by yesterdays MMO standards - which is exactly why it's FAILING.
#179 Dec 23 2010 at 1:54 AM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Although i haven't played since very early december due to the lack of all my friends being online anymore i would assume the game isn't going to fail right away. it is however going to fail. point being they don't have enough time before PS3 launch to make the game worth playing past level 20 of any class. i imagine that the same thing will happen after PS3 launch as what happened with PC launch. people will play and enjoy the game at first for the graphics and early cut scenes but as they play the repetition and lack of fun in game storyline interaction will annoy everyone. not only that but grinding to rank 50 as much as i have previously defended it is pointless and more dificult than is worth doing especially for there being no reward. pretty much if you can make friends with people who will play this game no matter what you're good to go but if not you might as well not even try.
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#180 Dec 23 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
*****
15,053 posts
Trying to make fun of FFXIV is like trying to make fun of a clown.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 6:37am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#181 Dec 23 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
The first mistake SE made was bringing Tanaka back as head of the project.

SE has lost touch with what players want. They never really did make the transition from offline game developer to MMO developer. And even their offline titles are falling short of the mark outside Japan these days. What they don't seem to get is that they were known for above average graphics, music, and exceptional story. MMOs can't be based on those things. MMOs have to be based around gameplay, and when the gameplay is mediocre at best, all the glitz and cutscenes can't save them.


The sad truth is the FF series has been on a decline ever since FF7. The moment Squaresoft sold out for the "mainstream" fan, they simply lost their way. If you really think about it, FF7 was an average rpg that only used 4 cd's because of the cut scenes. The game would of been 10x better on the N64 with real 3-d graphics and a solid story with emo-free villains. FF8 continued the trend and while it looked like FF9 was making progress, the "mainstream" audience didn't care for it. So we got FFX and X-2 next. The only bright spot in all of the post Nintendo FF games is FFXI. Quite frankly, it's the only game that "feels" like a FF title. FFXII was a cheap rip off from GBA titles lacking a decent story and overall felt like an offline clone of FFXI. FFXIII was such a mess I couldn't even bother to finish it. Finally SE in all their wisdom rushed FFXIV out the door early by 6 months.

I'm glad more people are finally understanding that eye candy isn't everything. There is a reason why Squaresoft(not SE, they produce nothing but crap under that label)became successful in the first place. It was because they listened to their fans and never took us for granted. I never held any ill to Square over their "easy" FF Mystic Quest game despite the reason why they released it in the first place. I saw it as a beginner rpg for Americans that never played one before. Considering how niche rpg's were, I still stand by my opinion. I'm only bringing that up here because some newbie fanboy is going to be all ****** cuz I dissed FF7. Well pal, you can enjoy FF7 all you want. It's the reason why Square lost their way. If they can churn out that crap, why bother. It really doesn't matter regarding FFXIV. The game is doomed to fail now. There are just far too many good MMO's out there right now and DC Universe is one of them that will earn my money. As it stands, the only game that I plan to purchase that will have the SE logo on it is the upcoming Batman Arkham City and that's only cuz SE bought out Eidos. /sigh
#182 Dec 23 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Default
42 posts
as long as crafting/gathering is still a 'Main Job' in FFXIV, i'm with what you called a troll i guess


and i'm still gonna say that crafting as a 'main job' will kill this game
#183 Dec 23 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
cutsaw wrote:
as long as crafting/gathering is still a 'Main Job' in FFXIV, i'm with what you called a troll i guess


and i'm still gonna say that crafting as a 'main job' will kill this game


You know, as much as I wanted to be behind crafting being a real class, I'm agreeing with you. I've just seen it affect DOM/DOW in too many negative ways.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 10:33am by KujaKoF
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#184 Dec 23 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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HOpefully once the economy becomes established and settled (however it happens, please don't start any discussions on that here), the effects of DoH being their own classes on DoM/DoW will diminish as it becomes less of a requirement for everyone!
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Crafter Consortium Craftsman/Gatherers Linkshell
#185 Dec 23 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Now the term "White Knight" is appearing nearly every thread. The trolls have purloined Elmer's term and are now using it for their own nefarious purposes.
#186 Dec 23 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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518 posts
Quote:
I'm only bringing that up here because some newbie fanboy is going to be all ****** cuz I dissed FF7. Well pal, you can enjoy FF7 all you want. It's the reason why Square lost their way.


ummm, not a newbie fanboy here been playing the FF series since FF for the NES. FFVII is one of the best FF games in the whole series. It brought FF to the main stream, before VII only the die hard RPG player knew about FF. I mean How many of the "new" FF players remember the joy of playing FFII(NA) or the awesomeness that was FFIII(NA).

And what about FFT? That was released after VII. That is i think the best FF game ever. I can't believe SE hasn't released a newer PS3 version of that game.

In short FFVII was probably the peak of the FF series. After that it was down hill from there.
#187 Dec 23 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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220 posts
Well SQEnix still wants a positive balance sheet, production costs have gone way up... being above average now costs hundreds of millions of dollars in investment that you have to make back somehow.

Like in FFXIII a developer said "we didn't make cities because they were too much work in 1080p" ...

In FFXIV I think SQEnix said didn't even try to compete, they knew they didn't throw that much money at it, the Star Wars MMO was what, 200 mil? Correct me if I'm wrong.. They wanted to make a niche game that appealed to casual and hardcore FF fans, but failed to impress either.

Also SQEnix went with their own engine which I doubt is more efficient to create content with than Blizzard's WoW engine. Did you know that WoW content creators are just a bunch of art degree holders writing content and implementing it with GUI development tools - and minimal dev support? I wonder how many content creators are on FFXIV's staff and how arduous it is to create content in FFXIV.

SQEnix is falling behind, when in FF7's time it was ahead of the game. They're getting stubborn because of their success and don't realize that the rest of the industry has leapfrogged ahead and they now need to catch up, swallow some pride and improve on a lot of things (yes customer support included).
#188 Dec 23 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I'm only bringing that up here because some newbie fanboy is going to be all ****** cuz I dissed FF7. Well pal, you can enjoy FF7 all you want. It's the reason why Square lost their way. If they can churn out that crap, why bother. /sigh


I love dumb *** who more than likely where not playing games during the time of the PS1 who think they know something. Gess what jerk. FF7 saved the JRPG you dumb @#%^. It was the game that in the mind of many sold the Playstation. And was called one of the most important video games of all time by the videogame media almost acrost the bord. The game put new life into the hearts of FF fans and made more new fans for SE than any other FF game.

BTW FF7 did not come out on the N64 for one reason. The N64 could not hold all the space need for the game. It was slated to come out on the Snes then the N64 and then move to the PS where it is well known to be the game that made Playstation. The game sold 300.000 units its first day out in NA. That was huge for 1997.

The truth about FF games is they really did not start going down hill untill FFX. FF7 was a great story one that many of us still know better than any other game. FF8 hade the love story that gamers really did not see in games untill then. FF9 was just plain fun. In my mind the only other game that SE has that can stand up to the old FF games was Vagrant Story that came out in 2000.

To call fans of FF7 noobs is to show a lack of understanding of the history of video games.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 11:24am by Sethern79
#189 Dec 23 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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220 posts
FF9 is high on the memorable list here too
#190 Dec 23 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
Cant believe somebody said the lack of direction and options in this game is a sing of SE giving the player freedom <.<

What is wrong with some of you ?
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MUTED
#191 Dec 23 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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170 posts
SyniteonReflux wrote:
Well SQEnix still wants a positive balance sheet, production costs have gone way up... being above average now costs hundreds of millions of dollars in investment that you have to make back somehow.

Like in FFXIII a developer said "we didn't make cities because they were too much work in 1080p" ...

In FFXIV I think SQEnix said didn't even try to compete, they knew they didn't throw that much money at it, the Star Wars MMO was what, 200 mil? Correct me if I'm wrong.. They wanted to make a niche game that appealed to casual and hardcore FF fans, but failed to impress either.

Also SQEnix went with their own engine which I doubt is more efficient to create content with than Blizzard's WoW engine. Did you know that WoW content creators are just a bunch of art degree holders writing content and implementing it with GUI development tools - and minimal dev support? I wonder how many content creators are on FFXIV's staff and how arduous it is to create content in FFXIV.

SQEnix is falling behind, when in FF7's time it was ahead of the game. They're getting stubborn because of their success and don't realize that the rest of the industry has leapfrogged ahead and they now need to catch up, swallow some pride and improve on a lot of things (yes customer support included).


Far far lower. Even Vanguard was like 30 mil. WoW was 75 mil by most estimates. Though this includes content and all. Usually you have to figure labor and equipment costs.

At $20 an hour average labor (all depts and managerial) x 40 hours = $800 a week. Even 100 full time developers = 80k per week. So for a year lets call it 80k x 50 = 4 Mil flat. Even if this has been in development for 5 years the labor costs of a 100 man crew full time is only $20 Mil.

Judging by what most educated people can do in a few hours with the tools... I'd say a staff of even 200 people for 5 years at a cost of $40 mil labor and probably $10 mil in equipment is more then what the typical price tag would be.
____________________________


#192 Dec 23 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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220 posts
Quote:
According to Hubertz, who heads up one of the world's biggest free-to-play games sites, The Old Republic - which is rumoured to have cost in excess of $100 million to develop - would need over a million active subscribers over an extended period of time for EA to break even, but doubts that will actually happen.


http://pc.ign.com/articles/113/1132509p1.html

That's what I had on my mind, off by a half =/ But I still remember clearly that FFXIII was so linear due to development costs.. Wonder what its budget was.



$20/hour is very conservative, even if you included administrative staff, a software company is still mostly developers, and managers. I'm an intermediate software developer and I tell you we make a lot more than you think, if you think some admins being paid $10 an hour can bring the average down to $20/hour.

Our consultants we need to bring in time to time, charge us easily $60 - 100 an hour, our wages start above 30... Star Wars MMO had plenty of licensing costs that I guess SQEnix doesn't have to deal with. Developing an above average production quality game, "does" take a lot of $$$

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 3:34pm by SyniteonReflux
#193 Dec 23 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
**
291 posts
Quote:
as long as crafting/gathering is still a 'Main Job' in FFXIV, i'm with what you called a troll i guess


and i'm still gonna say that crafting as a 'main job' will kill this game


What I don't understand (still) is why Crafting/Gathering are so exclusive from War/Magic.

Late in my relationship with FFXI, I formulated a (fanciful) idea of how to revitalize crafting in XI (which was pretty much a waste of gil). I thought it would be interesting if crafting unlocked certain (unique) abilities for party play. For example, having various ranks of "Cooking" would allow food eaten (by your entire party) to last 50% longer, or be 10% more effective. Things like that. It would never happen in XI, but it might put a new spin on reasons to level a craft and how that could be useful even in parties (rather than just making, or in this case losing, gil).

So then I started reading about XIV and I thought "Wow, this sounds interesting." I didn't expect to see miners on the front lines exactly, but wouldn't it be interesting if Miner actually had a USE on the front line? Some ability or technique that was unique the job that was useful in battle. What if Botany taught some unique Axe skills?

I don't know. It just seemed like a huge opportunity wasted to segregate them into "money makers" rather than integrating them into the customization of your character in battle (and parties, if we ever have these again).
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Battle Mage Kiru
#194 Dec 23 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Elmer wrote:
The White Knight - A self-appointed hero who tirelessly defends those in need. The slings and arrows of outrageous customer dissatisfaction shall not scar Square Enix while this stalwart figure is there to defend their actions.

The Troll - Enemy to all but himself, the contrarian Troll knows his opinion is all that matters. No point of view goes undulled by his grinding criticism while he is around.
Today, these two icons debate whether Final Fantasy XIV can survive -- in the face of its own players.

Disclaimer: This is a point-counterpoint editorial meant to open a discussion and not necessarily promote either view expressed by the characters within. Also, I realize it's an Ogre. FFXIV has no Trolls!

Read the editorial here
White Knight - Guys who come to the defense of a woman online solely because of the fact that she's a woman.

Troll - Someone who incites anger in others for the purpose of making other people upset. May or may not believe the things he says.



These are what they actually mean, at least.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#195 Dec 23 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
as long as crafting/gathering is still a 'Main Job' in FFXIV, i'm with what you called a troll i guess


and i'm still gonna say that crafting as a 'main job' will kill this game


What I don't understand (still) is why Crafting/Gathering are so exclusive from War/Magic.


I think repairs are supposed to be part of keeping your DoW/DoM in top fighting form... and considering how crabby and hate-filled so many DoW onry players are towards crafting classes (in particular) I imagine if you did anything that gave parties/players with DoH/DoL an advantage people would be even more angry.

Also crafting classes and gathering classes get the "evader" skills which I could totally see being useful on DoW/DoM
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#196 Dec 23 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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283 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
as long as crafting/gathering is still a 'Main Job' in FFXIV, i'm with what you called a troll i guess


and i'm still gonna say that crafting as a 'main job' will kill this game


What I don't understand (still) is why Crafting/Gathering are so exclusive from War/Magic.

Late in my relationship with FFXI, I formulated a (fanciful) idea of how to revitalize crafting in XI (which was pretty much a waste of gil). I thought it would be interesting if crafting unlocked certain (unique) abilities for party play. For example, having various ranks of "Cooking" would allow food eaten (by your entire party) to last 50% longer, or be 10% more effective. Things like that. It would never happen in XI, but it might put a new spin on reasons to level a craft and how that could be useful even in parties (rather than just making, or in this case losing, gil).

So then I started reading about XIV and I thought "Wow, this sounds interesting." I didn't expect to see miners on the front lines exactly, but wouldn't it be interesting if Miner actually had a USE on the front line? Some ability or technique that was unique the job that was useful in battle. What if Botany taught some unique Axe skills?

I don't know. It just seemed like a huge opportunity wasted to segregate them into "money makers" rather than integrating them into the customization of your character in battle (and parties, if we ever have these again).


What a lot of people don't know is that the way crafting works in FFXIV is not a new thing. There are many games that tryed this. one is a litel known game called Horizons. This game came out in 2003. I remeber at the time I was so crazy over this game. Dragons/Giants/fairies where just some of the player races. This game had it all. looked great cool races and something most people never saw before crafting as a main stay in the game. You could buy plots of land and built your own house. or pay someone to do it. Crafters could buy plots of land build a house and sell it to other players.

But the game became stale fast. Why? Becuse the only loot in the game was crater items. People started to get sick of geting nothing of a reward for fighting. Now this is not the only reason the game failed. It had bad lag no content (a lot like FFXIV) and a lot of people felt the graphics where crapy for the time ( I for one like the graphics) and the economy was just crap!

Im not going to say that FFXIV will fail on its crafting system but thats only becuse I think SE will soner or later put in full loot for DoM/DoW classes.
#197 Dec 23 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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291 posts
Quote:
Also crafting classes and gathering classes get the "evader" skills which I could totally see being useful on DoW/DoM


I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure (PRETTY SURE) Evader skills are exclusive to DoH & DoL. This is exactly the kind of opportunity they missed (in my opinion). I guess I have to switch to Carpenter when I want to sneak around. Cause that makes the most sense. Most Carpenters are also Ninja. Like Jesus.

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#198 Dec 23 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,457 posts
Quote:
I rarely party - but when I do I want to fight stuff that is fun to kick around. prefer Dos Equis
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#199 Dec 23 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:

I love dumb *** who more than likely where not playing games during the time of the PS1 who think they know something. Gess what jerk. FF7 saved the JRPG you dumb @#%^. It was the game that in the mind of many sold the Playstation. And was called one of the most important video games of all time by the videogame media almost acrost the bord. The game put new life into the hearts of FF fans and made more new fans for SE than any other FF game.

BTW FF7 did not come out on the N64 for one reason. The N64 could not hold all the space need for the game. It was slated to come out on the Snes then the N64 and then move to the PS where it is well known to be the game that made Playstation. The game sold 300.000 units its first day out in NA. That was huge for 1997.

The truth about FF games is they really did not start going down hill untill FFX. FF7 was a great story one that many of us still know better than any other game. FF8 hade the love story that gamers really did not see in games untill then. FF9 was just plain fun. In my mind the only other game that SE has that can stand up to the old FF games was Vagrant Story that came out in 2000.

To call fans of FF7 noobs is to show a lack of understanding of the history of video games.


How old are you again? I'm 33 and played though everything ever made by Square, good or bad. I played Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana(not a direct FF game, but fun just the same), FFT, Chrono Trigger and of course the highly over-rated FF7. Some of your facts are terribly inaccurate. Go back and look at FF7 now and tell me the PS1's memory was utilized if you omitted the CGI "eye candy". Zelda and Mario 64 were both superior titles in every way in terms of the 3-d graphics and engine. That's because the PS1's only advantage was the unlimited memory space compared to N64 cartridges thanks to $1 per disc fee.

The JRPG genre never needed to be saved. That was more a quote from one of Sony's brass if you recall. He made a statement that 2-d games and rpg's were a dead genre. Oh and by the way, EA bought a small percentage of Square(no Enix yet) to push FF7 to the masses. I'm not saying that making a game that crosses demographic lines is wrong. All I'm saying is that Square got too comfortable as a result and instead of learning from the flaws that do exist in FF7, they sold out to the mainstream "newb" FF user. The JP market was never in any danger, no clue where you heard that. FF and Dragon Quest games rule the market there at that time BEFORE FF7 ever came out. Why do you think Square(FF) merged with Enix(DQ) for in the first place? Don't ever question my knowledge on this subject ever again. We might not agree on whether a specific game was good or bad, but I think we can clearly see how "comfortable" SE got putting out the status quo crap they pulled with FFXI and it blew up in their face.

edited: for clarity and grammar

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 11:51pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#200 Dec 23 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Default
39 posts
ok well my 2cent...
i bought the game, with only the pre notion that it would be a upto date version of FFXI, and to be fair it is verry Similar. but it was so broken, and i had so much toruble with it. right down to the installing a game controler.
so much extra work i had to put in to make the game i had just paid £60 for, work!
and that seemed to be the theme for the rest of the game,
it was so sub standard after a month of waiting, i left the game. bitter and ****** of like manny people.
(yes i am the troll in this fairy tail)
after a month or se, they made it free to play , and i decided there was nothing to loos if im bored i could play it.
i allso have a RL friend who plays.
THE ONLY REASON I PLAY FFXIV, is becoause its free!
(good move SE)
BUT the game is still utter crap,



+++WARNING RANT+++ (skip the rant if your tired of the complaints)

i still HAVE to use a controler... I DONT LIKE A CONTROLER, THATS WHY I BOUGHT IT FOR PC!
i still find the market wards eccesve, and laborius to use. and pointless. and cluttered.
SE still refuse to give players what they want, to there peril.
why cant i get any decent gear from mobs without being over 30, or a crafter over 30?! or rich.
the questing is STILL dull and repetative. and totaly un emaginative (yea, so creative!! a system that you pick a generic mob killing quest from a list! the only interaction during wich, is with the SAME npc who dosent say much, and a floating crystal....)
and what the **** is with chocobo's and air ships!? why cant i use them!?
why is there No social events to join everyone!? and if someone says behast, ima slap them lol. you have to request a party, and if the other person (as oftern is) is 10 levels higher than the camp, they can 1 hit kill everything before you get a touch and you get 0 SP! Wooot!
nobody is talking!? whats with that!? i havent made a single friend, mostly becouse i only bump into *** players that respond! and of cource it took me 20 min to figure out how to send a tell..
"Ctrl T" ah brings up a tell thing.. so i can input there name and then say hi! no...
ok so i have to put /then there name? no.. so i have to ... oh!!! i have to press "Ctrl T" then "/tell" then typ out there first name, Entirly acuratly, and then there second name.. to say "hi" . . . . . . . . W T F!?
why cant i just click him then click "send tell" what the **** SE "online COMINITY" i cant even send a fecking tell to people casualy! linkshells and dull and boring! i dont have anything to do thats not grinding exp or grinding craft, !?!? i would like to ask any of the dev's if they actualy PLAY this game?
why the **** arnt they making it fun!? thats like the Fing point of a game!! GRRRRrrraa(troll growl)aaaa!

+++RANT OVER+++ (carry on readon from here)


ok.... so my point, a prety simple one, i hate SE for getting my hopes up then disapointing me, i want them to fail becouse they deserv to if they thing this is something they can chuck a few updates at and patches and make everything ok. there wrong, they chucked the guy who made it this way, thats a start but now they need to make the game 60% of us at least want to play.
im going to keep playing becouse its free.
but if something better comes allong, ima drop it like a brick.
and i will contiue to read forums and write scathing reveuws when apropriate (i.e. "updates with things that nobody has asked for)
i think i am not entirly alone with my feeling towards SE.
many of my fellow "Trolls" habour strong resentment to SE, and rightly so.

...Stupid SE.

if they had given us the bloody chocobo's by now, id be leaving the head of one in Mr man in charge's Bed!

*Travels back under the interweb-bridge* (again please forgive SP)


____________________________


#201 Dec 23 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
***
2,202 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

I love dumb *** who more than likely where not playing games during the time of the PS1 who think they know something. Gess what jerk. FF7 saved the JRPG you dumb @#%^. It was the game that in the mind of many sold the Playstation. And was called one of the most important video games of all time by the videogame media almost acrost the bord. The game put new life into the hearts of FF fans and made more new fans for SE than any other FF game.

BTW FF7 did not come out on the N64 for one reason. The N64 could not hold all the space need for the game. It was slated to come out on the Snes then the N64 and then move to the PS where it is well known to be the game that made Playstation. The game sold 300.000 units its first day out in NA. That was huge for 1997.

The truth about FF games is they really did not start going down hill untill FFX. FF7 was a great story one that many of us still know better than any other game. FF8 hade the love story that gamers really did not see in games untill then. FF9 was just plain fun. In my mind the only other game that SE has that can stand up to the old FF games was Vagrant Story that came out in 2000.

To call fans of FF7 noobs is to show a lack of understanding of the history of video games.


How old are again? I'm 33 and played though everything made by Square, good or bad. I played Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana(not a direct FF game, but fun just the same), FF7 and of course the highly over-rated FF7. Most of your facts are terribly inaccurate. Go back and look at FF7 and tell me the PS1's memory was used if you omitted the CGI "eye candy". Zelda and Mario 64 were both superior titles in every way in terms of the 3-d graphics and engine. That's because the PS1's only advantage was the memory space thanks to $1 each multiply discs.

The JRPG genre never needed to be saved. That was more a quote from one of Sony's brass if you recall. He made the statement that 2-d games and rpg's were a dead genre. Oh and by the way, EA bought a small percentage of Square(no Enix yet) to push FF7 to the masses. I'm not saying that making a game that crosses demographic lines is wrong. All I'm saying is that Square got too comfortable as a result and instead of learned from the flaws that do exist in FF7, they sold out to the mainstream "newb" FF user. The JP market was never in any danger. FF and Dragon Quest games rule the market there at that time BEFORE FF7 ever came out. Don't ever question my knowledge on this subject ever again. We might not agree on whether a specific game was good or bad, but I think we can clearly see how "comfortable" SE got putting out the status quo crap they pulled with FFXI and it blew up in their face.


You sir win +10 internets
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